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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 20:05:47 -
[1] - Quote
Anmia Ambraelle wrote:Wait...
Eve is becoming a facebook game?
EVE already is a facebook game -- limited progression with the opportunity to purchase advancement.
http://i.imgur.com/kJ8EOSn.png
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 20:15:32 -
[2] - Quote
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:I think it is a huge mistake to offer skill points for any activity in game. I think it is an even bigger mistake to offer them as rewards for PVE content, in a game where the PVE content is probably its least recommendable feature and something a significant portion of the playerbase does not like to participate in.
I do think it is a decent idea to offer certain rewards for logging in or performing some activity every so often, and when this feature was first announced way back in a previous fanfest the rewards discussed were things like standings increases or LP. I would much prefer a different kind of reward for GÇ£Dailies.GÇ¥
What makes it seem like there's any reason to implement log-on benefits beyond SP? That is, what makes it seem like anything is the problem for retention (or log-on trends) except SP?
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 20:31:48 -
[3] - Quote
Maruku Asanari wrote:I disagree with this idea because it more or less forces you to go and shoot an npc or you'll be at a disadvantage to those who do.
So, SP should just be nonexistent because it forces paying real money or there being a disadvantage for those who don't?
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 20:46:44 -
[4] - Quote
Maruku Asanari wrote:Dror wrote:Maruku Asanari wrote:I disagree with this idea because it more or less forces you to go and shoot an npc or you'll be at a disadvantage to those who do. So, SP should just be nonexistent because it forces paying real money or there being a disadvantage for those who don't? In my opinion you pay real money for the access to the game, and accumulating SP and doing nothing more with that access is the choice of the player.
The spirit of that original post is that being at a disadvantage hampers subscription interest in the game. Skill points come with those subscriptions, and they're required to do everything. It would be true that player interest in a sandbox game comes from the ability to efficiently play the sandbox to its potential.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 21:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Thanks for all the feedback (except telling me to go to hell, that's rude).
Just posting to let you guys know we are reading all of it and even if takes a couple days we will definitely follow up with as many answers as possible.
Keep it coming.
As always, the team's ideas for improving SP and the NPE are super creative, and it's obvious that this has potential. The perma-loss character idea is still interesting, btw.
It's on CCP to fully employ what they understand about motivation. If there are barriers to a perfect game, it is their prerogative and best interest to fix them.
Not people. Not beings.
Enjoy.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 21:58:53 -
[6] - Quote
Axhind wrote:And yet all those games are doing worse than eve.
http://i.imgur.com/LUBFKH1.jpg
[inb4 semantics]
Pestillium wrote:You can't claim to be a sandbox MMO and attempt to dictate the daily game play of your player base. .
Welcome to SP.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 22:34:45 -
[7] - Quote
Niraia wrote:Remember when you were a new pilot, and there were all these big ships in the game, it was all very immersive, so you got really invested and subscribed for years so that some day in the future you could fly them?
I miss that. It's one of the factors that contributed to me paying a subscription for 10 years.
If the game isn't currently rewarding without giving people rewards for playing, then I seriously fear for its future, or at least the future of your most loyal players.
Maybe you should concentrate on making the game better instead?
The majority of fresh play is obviously much less than that.. or there would be no patch to the NPE.
The idea of the game being unrewarding is that fresh play is shown a paywall. "It's supposed to be a sandbox" -- thus, "a better game".
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 22:39:29 -
[8] - Quote
Rykki Atruin wrote:I would *love* to see this:
within a 24 hour period (downtime to downtime) you get rewarded up to a total of 10k SP for being exposed in space (no POS spinning, no AFK cloaking) based on how long you were undocked. You get rewarded for being in space and able to be interacted with by other players. The reward isn't huge, but it is an incentive and it doesn't matter what you are doing, just that you're in space doing *something*
..
Why not just give the SP if the player loses a ship.. really reinforcing the enjoyment of that ding sound.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.08 22:54:48 -
[9] - Quote
Missing SP seems like a problem? It's a wonder how all those fresh subs feel..
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.10 10:45:26 -
[10] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Cajun Waffles wrote:News flash: DAILIES are not required! If you feel that you are being forced to acquire an additional 4million skill points (total gained during the year) by doing dailies your whole argument is asinine!
It's optional! Just like acquiring plex, extractors, etc.
To keep up with the competition (that's everybody in EVE), you'll have to do them. Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds.  so, because you're not being forced to do them we should completely ignore that they want to implement it in the worst way possible and shouldn't try to at least make it a half decent system if we're going to have it forced up on us? i really don't understand logic like yours - "you don't have to do it, therefore any suggestion of how to make it not suck a donkey **** is crying, get over it!" yes. lets flood the game with **** mechanics because you're not forced to participate in any of them - except you will be when every mechanic is crap because nobody bothered to suggest ideas to improve them because you don't have to do any of them. at the end of the day it's irrelevant if you have to do them or not. ccp adding **** features that aren't mandatory is how we end up with a game full of crap that nobody wants to play.
It's the most simple implementation. Something "so forced/appealing" should require more than just hopping over to a belt?
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.10 10:59:27 -
[11] - Quote
The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now?
SP is being "created out of nowhere"? So what? Checked out the retention claims? Ready to imply that SP has nothing to do with retention even though the mechanic keeps getting patched?
It's "forced"? If SP is so super that missing just a little makes players feel awful, how do fresh subs feel?
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2016.04.10 11:55:32 -
[12] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Dror wrote:The first 15 or so pages of this had no decent critique against the idea. What's the issue now? People who have experienced dailies in other games have made their concerns clear. As for arguments in favour of dailies? So far I've seen "new player" fallacies and posts that apparently support this concept out of spite. Given that Rise's new method of persuasion on these matters is to do nothing, I don't see much reason to effortpost.
Dailies from other games don't give the same benefit. Rep is uninteresting. Setting up "VIP Elite" points to cash out for some stats or whatever is as well, but we already have that with SP and real money, so why not get some for basically free? "Not feeling the idea? Don't do it," is valid. If players can't miss a few sessions of free SP, why do they have no say for how little SP newbies have?
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:why are so many ppl defending this hung up on the SP
the SP is not the issue here
the issue is CCP telling you how to play their game
the issue is CCP just seeing you as a log in number
the issue is EVE is a game you can play at your own pace with out ever feeling you need to log in
the issue is making ppl want to log in for such a hollow reason is LAZY and if we reward them for being lazy they will keep being lazy
It's A feature, with a single and immediately-completed task (that also happens to improve the SP situation, especially for fresh subs -- which is obviously the real purpose). "SP is no the issue"? It is. Figure out what gets fresh subs to retain (surely with scientific backing, which are plentiful in this post history), then maybe this thread's criticisms have some validity.
So, every character only does the best ISK income method or equivalent? Negative.
Krevnos wrote:No, the issue is that many players will feel a need to adopt a certain game style based on what menial tasks CCP has laid out for them on a daily basis, rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This particularly applies to poorer players who have more to gain by it. Having a series of daily tasks laid out by the developer is not conducive to an enjoyable game experience, rather pushing players who would otherwise take the day off to log in just to shoot a rat. It also impacts on regular players' game time if they feel the need to engage in this nonsense to keep up with everyone else.
i.e. Many players will be performing mundane daily tasks rather than enjoying the freedom of the game. This is Theme Park MMO material.
Nobody is set to gain from this and everyone loses out, either on rewards or on their freedom of choice.
CCP Rise has clearly forgotten what Eve is about since he joined the development team.
See above for just about every point.
"Play more and get more" is ordinarily the mantra with MMOs. It's perfect, because status should be associated with playing the game or skill, and not paying for it. That all has nothing to do with "theme park" MMO design, as criticized, because it's true for both.
The obvious gain is the benefit of extra SP. If that's non-intriguing, then don't do it. If SP has become such a feature that it's ******* with the community, newbie or vet (and in any manner), it should just go.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:its not ppl moaning that they have to log in its ppl upset at an idea that is blatant manipulation to get them to log in by making them feel like the missed out if they dont
*Logic*
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2016.04.10 12:39:27 -
[13] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:You mean from ~1 hr to -2 minuts
And pve doesn't need to be any more rewarding is already what most ppl do in the game
CCP should not attempt to make any choice in gameplay inherentlybetter than another and they should not give a pair any definitive goal
More players logged on is more of a potential fleet. End of discussion.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2016.04.10 14:05:51 -
[14] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Aluanna wrote:Honestly I'm on the fence about this..
Personally, I don't like the pressure to log in daily.. I'd much rather see this as a weekly thing that requires more effort, but also gives more reward..
Assuming it's going to be implemented..
Like every 6 days you log on and kill X NPC ships OR player ships, OR mine X ore (Not a checklist, just alternatives for those who don't partake in PVE)
And once that is done you get X free SP (say 50k) It's just like the dailies, only the pressure is to log on weekly and put a little effort in, not daily find a random anomaly, warp in, kill one ship, dock up and log out.. So you understand the concept behind dailies in eve is faulty at best but you want the bonuse XP I think this sums up the reasons ppl support this idea
It absolutely should. SP is quite obviously the whole reason for its announcement.
There's no problem with rewarding log-on behavior either. It would exist automatically without SP, as players would start a production queue or check out a fresh market, increasing the amount of potential trade hubs and combat activities. Welcome to logic.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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