|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 21:34:04 -
[1] - Quote
I think introducing sp tokens is a great idea. I really do. But not tied to some kind of daily jump-through-a-hoop thing. Exploration sites, player wrecks, rare belt spawns maybe; sure. Frozen body reprocessing; absolutely.
(Plus, highsec is still where most npc kills happen, right? Is highsec pve really where an increase in activity will mean an increase in player to player interaction? And this is not promoting in-space activity, really. If you wanted to promote that the drop should come at the end of an extended activity, not at the start of a trivial one.) |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
449
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 21:45:51 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/
So not to play the gotcha game here or anything -- like I said I'm fine with sp tokens as long as it's reasonably implemented. But what changed in less than three months to warrant another mechanism to add sp to the game? Is it to counter the relative sp loss of extractors/injectors? |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
451
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 23:50:44 -
[3] - Quote
Resi Richthofen wrote:plasticsurgerycandidate2 wrote:Sorry man, but this is a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea that leads to a slippery slope. - SP should be earned through training (either by you or someone else you buy the sp off of)
I am a new player, been here a couple weeks. The current skill mechanic is by far my least favorite part of the game. My best play at this point is to subscribe, go play other games for a month, then come back and start playing this one when I can actually do something that has a chance at getting me some isk. People who have been playing for a long time can undercut me if I want to build stuff, blow me up if I want to hunt relics etc. And that's fine. I think that is the way it ought to be. They have been playing longer. When I have been playing longer I should be able to 'win' against the new guy. The problem is that the way to 'get better', so I can use the tech 2 stuff, or more efficiently reprocess ore is to wait. If I at least got some credit for doing stuff, I would have an incentive to play. If I knew that if I didn't play I would not get better, I would have an incentive to play. If there were no skill system at all and I could do what I want when I want I would have incentive to start earning isk NOW. But if I wait a few months, I will be able to earn isk much faster, and the few million a day I can bring in now will seem meaningless. As a brand new player, this kind of sucks. If I were at least getting skills by doing stuff I would feel motivated to play. But right now I feel motivated to play in a month or two. And if I decide I don't like the career path I chose, at that point I at least will have a good inflow of isk so I can consider buying skill injectors. But right now, at the rate I am making isk, if I do nothing but save for a skill injector I will be able to get one in like a month. I would much rather play to progress in the game. Not wait to progress. Yeah I hear you. And I agree and sympathize. However, I think the proposed change is a harmful workaround for a flawed system. Like Malcanis pointed out, the skills themselves are due for a tiericide. And interim solutions have a curious way of becoming permanent fixtures. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
454
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 01:40:07 -
[4] - Quote
Resi Richthofen wrote:What is tiericide? I have not heard that term before. In practice it's an ongoing effort on CCP's part to go through the ships and modules to increase viable options for players. A game being a series of interesting choices and all. It used to be, for example, that for each category of module, you really only ever fit one or two; the t2 variant or the meta 4 variant. The others were just plain worse. They're working through that as we speak, usually going over a couple of categories with each release.
So tiericide refers to that kind of major overhaul.
If you want to read more about it this is a good start: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-eve-one-module-at-a-time/ |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
458
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 15:01:41 -
[5] - Quote
Any CSM wanna pipe in with some stellar management counselling? |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
460
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 23:16:59 -
[6] - Quote
Rain6639 wrote:I'm definitely not talking about CCP, just what makes for a happier life in general. CCP should give you 10k sp to stop posting |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
465
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 11:20:52 -
[7] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:With EVE getting older and older and the distance between eager, hyper-active newbies and the average veteran player growing. I really don't see what this part has to do with the rest of your post. If you mean that the skill-gap is a problem, the system with diminishing returns and finite skill ceilings pretty much has you covered there. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
465
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 21:27:03 -
[8] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP Rise wrote:We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. CCP Rise wrote:We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. Decide Rise. You can't have cookie and eat cookie. You think my 10 minute period will lead to something meaningful? This is a good point.
|
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
467
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 21:44:58 -
[9] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:how about make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30
so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it
this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in It would still be a chore but at least you could do it at your leisure.
The more I think about this the more it feels like it's meant to pave the way for some kind of f2p redesign of the game. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
469
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 07:59:12 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:How will the thousands of supercap and titan pilots get this sp "reward" every day? In style
|
|
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
471
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:38:06 -
[11] - Quote
So this is completely anecdotal evidence, take it for what it's worth.
I checked in with a friend of mine who is currently unsubbed. His reaction was an immediate "uh-oh," followed by the opinion that the introduction of dailies is not something that bodes well for the future of a game. He thought 10k was an awful lot of skillpoints, and figured he would pretty much have to set time aside to do the daily in order to not lag behind other players. He didn't see the correlation between logging in to shoot an npc and an increase in in-game activity. Instead, he figured it was stat-padding to keep up appearances for investors and stakeholders.
I've been trying to lure him back in, turns out I'm into co-dependency I guess. I don't think this change will make it more likely he'll return.
Again, completely anecdotal, I know -- so if you want to dismiss it as the desperate gambit of an entrenched contrarian I suppose there's not much I can do about it. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
471
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:53:36 -
[12] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content. I understand that argument, I really do. But the thing is that something can be optional and compulsory at the same time. (Not mandatory compulsory, soft compulsory.) All it takes is that the payoff is high enough, or the punishment for abstaining is harsh enough -- and people will figure it out on their own. This is usually known as a false choice. And in games, which are supposed to be if not fun then at least entertaining, it's almost always a ****** thing.
The best example I have on hand from Eve is the recently departed skillclones. It was completely optional to forego keeping your clone up to date. No one made you push that button.
For characters that risked getting podded, the cost/benefit estimation was obvious. You keep it updated. If you didn't, there was a very real possibility that you would lose out on skillpoints. There was just no way you would chose the paltry isk savings over sp loss.
That's not an interesting mechanic or system to engage with. It was just drag.
(For characters that didn't risk getting podded, such as station traders, the cost/benefit was equally obvious. The risk of getting podded was zero and nil, so there was no way you would chose even a paltry cost to safeguard against a non-existant risk. Also not an interesting choice to make. But atleast you didn't have to engage with it at regular intervals.)
|
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
482
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:11:17 -
[13] - Quote
Last time the PCU were at today's level was what, 07-08? They "fixed" that by releasing content that excited players, like t2 ships and FW and then came Apocrypha which gave the entire game a boost.
I mean, hell, if you really wanted to juice the numbers, release a mobile app already. We've had smartphones for nearly a decade, the jury is in; the hype is real. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
482
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:48:17 -
[14] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:smartphone app would certainly do all kinds of wonders for login numbers Sure would if you put them together. What does it matter to me if the market orders got updated through someone's computer or someone's iphone? This module I bought got invented and manufactured by someone who logged in with the app, oh the horror! |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
484
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 21:16:17 -
[15] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Nobody likes to be told to throw something away they think is a good idea on the basis of some random internet peoples opinion. What they want is constructive changes to the idea, so it would work better. Discarding the idea is not constructive. Not all ideas are constructive either, and not all ideas deserve to be negotiated around. Some things just don't have reasonable a middle-ground.
"Hey, I've been thinking about setting our car on fire"
"I'd rather you didn't, to be perfectly frank."
"How about just the back seat?"
"While certainly a less frightening prospect, that would not be a very good idea either."
"Aw come on man, meet me half way and come up with a decent counter-proposal or I'm arranging something pyrotechnical in the glove compartment."
"I'm calling the police."
I'm not saying this feature is the equivalent of setting a car on fire. For one thing it can be turned off if whatever metrics they intend to use don't tick upwards at a satisfactory rate. (Although I'm afraid that's not what would happen, instead CCP would reach the conclusion that the solution to this pesky screw problem is to use an even larger hammer.) |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
486
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 17:54:54 -
[16] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right?
The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts. It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
486
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 18:35:41 -
[17] - Quote
Mister Ripley wrote:Ravcharas wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right?
The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts. It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect. I understand your point but FT Dio. points out that a paying customer should not be pushed to provide some service (in this case content) to the sales company. It's like buying something and then being pushed to write positive reviews and recommend the product to friends and family. In Free to Play games you are the product. In Pay to Play games this should not be the case. The total CCU (concurrent users) metric makes sense in F2P games because every minute someone is playing is a minute to push him to buy game currency (i.e. because something takes insane amount of time to build or to craft, but can be completed with just 100 diamonds). I don't understand why CCP seems so eager to improve this metric. I never had the feeling to be alone somewhere. Sure some 0.0 areas are basicaly empty, but that's because of game mechanics. People are in other areas where they can use said mechanics in their favour. Like a standing fleet in a system, forming groups to be safe. I agree. And I'm quite against this daily opportunity implementation, I think it'll hurt the game. However, it needs still be pointed out that in multiplayer games players enable gameplay for each other. That's true for Eve and it's true for TF2 and it's true for World of Tanks. Paying or not, there's at least a theoretical point of critical player mass, below which the game simply wither away. So in some sense the game needs to push or prod everyone to some extent, to encourage whatever behaviour is deemed to be positive for the game eco system as a whole. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
486
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 19:52:17 -
[18] - Quote
Mister Ripley wrote:True. This has already been pointed out alot of times in this thread. But shouldn't it be the gameplay that makes you want to play and not some psychological trick? EVE has so many features that are half-assed and CCP is not touching any of them. Instead they implement F2P game mechanics. I think it should be both. Or rather, engaging gameplay relies on psychological tricks to work. But you need to be responsible about which tricks you use and how. Variable ratio rewards are the poster child for borderline unethical game design, and rightly so. But you also shouldn't design your loot drop tables to be entirely predictable either. It's fun to get a little something extra every now and then. But you need to be careful when you're meddling with what is essentially very deep buttons in the human mind that really none of us can protect. This is especially true in games like Eve, which really relies a lot on long term time investment, social bonding, and the kind of interconnectedness with your real life that means people actually get up in the middle of the night to respond to pings about tackled supers. Eve is real. So we all need to Eve responsibly. And that includes CCP.
But I digress. I understand what you're saying, and I agree. At the end of the day all gamers are really showing up asking to be psychologically tricked into enjoying themselves. But we're mostly fine with being tricked if it's tickling our innate sense of wonder, or achievement, or exploration of the unknown, or social dynamics. That's a EULA most people are happy to sign. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
487
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 20:07:21 -
[19] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mister Ripley wrote:baltec1 wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p It's called industry. I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay. Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty. I'd rather spend 20 min setting up industry jobs then going on a weekend break than spending the weekend grinding FW missions. This is why I like eve, I'm not disadvantaged for only having limited play time. I can earn my isk and gain sp just as fast as people who play every day. This idea punishes people like me as I simply cannot log in every day. but people like you can have +5 implants plugged in all day every day, people who are active and in space most of the time can't so actually it balances out. Getting podded often running level 4 missions in hisec, are you? |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
488
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 23:29:46 -
[20] - Quote
Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots |
|
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
494
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:12:59 -
[21] - Quote
This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
495
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:20:11 -
[22] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ravcharas wrote:This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.' |
|
|
|