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Xun Yu
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.04.12 23:35:17 -
[31] - Quote
Rinai Vero Luminaire General, FDU Moira. Director and GMVA Diplomat Secretary General, Villore Assembly
The success of the Federation and its aims depends on more than simply the Gallente, the voices of all her constituent peoples must be heard or else the Federation is doomed to discordant chaos. Allow me to express my interest in participating in this Assembly so as to ensure a voice for my people, the Jin-Mei, and to provide our strength and wisdom to the problems facing the Federation.
I have contacted you via private mail as requested, and should you require any further information or details from myself I will happily furnish them.
Taishou Xun Yu |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
743
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Posted - 2016.04.13 00:40:46 -
[32] - Quote
Taishou Xun,
Our Assembly would be most honored by your presence among our number. I could not agree more that the strength of our Union can only endure as long as all of our people stand together in brotherhood. A representative of our noble Jin Mei comrades will be welcome indeed. |
Aedre Lafisques
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
69
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Posted - 2016.04.13 01:13:57 -
[33] - Quote
I have several things to say in regards to this thread.
Firstly, the same things as always are demanded of Mlle. Kim, that she point to specific evidence, which, I think she has, long ago now. Let's say she has, and that the things that she has said are not just elements of the past but ongoing. So far, I have seen very, very few Gallente that have outright denied that such things have happened. In fact, I think many, including myself, are willing to aknowlege that these things happen all the time.
To say that they happen 'everywhere', which is the case, is not a lessening. It should be understood to be apprehensible in its scope. Just because these things happen everywhere does not mean it is acceptible. In so far, I don't fault Mlle. Kim for arguing for her personal, exclusive side. But the real problem to be tackled is that this is happening everywhere. It must be addressed. Even in small part would be an improvement.
When I agreed to participate in the PPC, I had no illusions whatsoever of its scope or its reach. I was not disappointed when it was not heard, as I never expected it to, powers corrupt as they seem to be (such concerns being ignored and whatnot). When Arkon asked me for my opinion, it was much the same as many peoples' thereafter - that it would change nothing. He glimmered, nothing more.
Vision guides the future, not 'change' in and of itself. Vision requires action as a component. It is not about achieving vision immediately in one step but continual action in years, decades or even centuries. Things like the PPC, and hopefully, this Assembly, are cornerstones of what Arkon believed were the strengths of the Gallente people. We all have something to give to strengthening the future.
Those who act contrary to progress will slowly be forgotten, but those who defy that will go on. It's not my people who said, That which is done for oneself dies with you, that which you do for others is immortal.
Do you really think the philosophy of such a notion changes for us, immortals? What sort of hell are we willing to create around us? I doubt this is what anyone wants no matter the immortality, which is an illusion anyway, and can surely be taken from us at any time. Something Great is far more worthwhile.
We have all become Capsuleers for some reason. These reasons against the cost make us very subjective. But if we can listen to those stories we get a sense for the tapestry of realities here in New Eden.
I would like to see the PPC continue as a master document. I would also like to see the Assembly succeed as a community for voices in a similar spirit. We can do better - we have every means at our disposal. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1243
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Posted - 2016.04.13 01:47:53 -
[34] - Quote
I have very little interest in what Ms. Kim has to say.
She isnGÇÖt interested in peace, accommodation, or understanding.
She is a propagandist who is interested only in causing dissension among those she wishes to destroy.
If she were to equally denounce the manyGǪ. excesses of the State, then perhaps I would have more interest.
Otherwise, as ever she is just a feckless hack whose rabble rousing isnGÇÖt worth further consideration.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Korsavius
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
282
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Posted - 2016.04.13 05:08:35 -
[35] - Quote
I would like to step forward as an envoy on behalf of the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, if your assembly would be so willing as to allow me to do so. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3170
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Posted - 2016.04.13 06:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aedre Lafisques wrote: When I agreed to participate in the PPC, I had no illusions whatsoever of its scope or its reach. I was not disappointed when it was not heard, as I never expected it to, powers corrupt as they seem to be (such concerns being ignored and whatnot). When Arkon asked me for my opinion, it was much the same as many peoples' thereafter - that it would change nothing. He glimmered, nothing more.
An aside question I feel is somewhat relevant to this initiative also. Why do we expect the Governments that represent tens of trillions of citizens to listen to submissions by a few score capsuleers, it's not like either initiative represented any sizeable proportion of the capsuleer community either, and it's also not like the PPC proposed anything that hasn't been said by various politicians on all sides.
This really feels like grandstanding to me to submit proposals then claim they are corrupt for not listening to such a small minority. Especially when you say you expected no response going into it.
Though effort is still well worth making, but lets not go overboard calling them corrupt for not listening. |
Zenariae
212
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Posted - 2016.04.13 07:55:19 -
[37] - Quote
If I could offer a partial answer to that, one that might not really answer but make you consider the whole and the nature of each of its parts. As Capsuleers, we do this because it is the right thing to do, to examine the things in life and decide what qualities are needed to serve their existence, such as tolerance, courage, persistence, even faith, to name a few. The Assembly I would hope will be a place for reflection as much as it might try to aim for practical suggestions. Sometimes there is no solution in the present beyond simply acknowledging that whether or not something deserves the attentions of the trillions or the few, all things are a part of the one perception of the universe, the Maker, and all things refer back to that perception. |
iyammarrok
Mining Company The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
418
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Posted - 2016.04.13 10:52:55 -
[38] - Quote
Thankyou for proving my point Diana. Your seeming inability to actually read my name, clearly written at the bottom of the post, is telling of your current 'level'. I can assure you, it is not one that could in any way be described as 'my superior'. Good day.
-Tertianus Rethelior.
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
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iyammarrok
Mining Company The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
418
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Posted - 2016.04.13 10:59:28 -
[39] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:I would like also to point out that a savage who called himself with a name that sounds like "Im mah rock" (rather descriptive!), was exact one of these ignorants whom I was pointing on earlier. He was one of these cruel and heartless peoples, denying the widely known and easily verifiable fact for the sake of his trolling here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5787843#post5787843 iyammarrok wrote: blowing up colonies? even penal ones?
*looks at a list of commonly used FedNav weaponry*
nope.
Any capable capsuleer who have seen Federal penal colonies in Black Rise can confirm that they blow them up shortly as you hack into one of the cells to rescue a prisoner.
i see you've taken a quote from an earlier thread, in which you claimed to have video of people walking unprotected on a planetary surface. in a system with only two planets upon which any such facility could be placed. Neither of which would allow for unshielded survival. One was barren, with no atmosphere, the other had a surface temperature of almost absolute zero.
but really, do continue digging your own hole.
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
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Aedre Lafisques
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
74
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Posted - 2016.04.13 12:06:46 -
[40] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:I have very little interest in what Ms. Kim has to say.
She isnGÇÖt interested in peace, accommodation, or understanding.
She is a propagandist who is interested only in causing dissension among those she wishes to destroy.
If she were to equally denounce the manyGǪ. excesses of the State, then perhaps I would have more interest.
Otherwise, as ever she is just a feckless hack whose rabble rousing isnGÇÖt worth further consideration.
For the record, I would like to underline that my comments about her were directly in this vein. It is the fact that she does not promote the well-being of all that makes her seem most illegitimate. It is indeed propaganda - and nothing more - to state that only we commit war-terrors.
I would encourage our community not to knock our heads against propaganda - we're all quite familiar with it now, as Capsuleers. Some of us produce this kind of material ourselves, in more pointed ways. This should be treated no differently. It might anger us, but that is the only purpose of it, so we shouldn't let it disrupt our goings-on, just as in war. It is better to move by it unaffected. |
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2556
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Posted - 2016.04.13 13:34:01 -
[41] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:I have very little interest in what Ms. Kim has to say. Probably because you have chosen to ignore the truth when I smeared your nose to it, preferring to spew groundless gallente propaganda.
James Syagrius wrote: She isnGÇÖt interested in peace, accommodation, or understanding.
Said a gallentean, supporting occupation regime and failing to understand us or facts. Don't speak about me, barking gallentean swine, you know nothing about what I am interested in. For example, I am most definitely interested in peace and to render you agressors unable to break it ever again.
James Syagrius wrote: She is a propagandist who is interested only in causing dissension among those she wishes to destroy.
Said a gallentean propagandist, trying to cover the fact with his groundless words.
James Syagrius wrote: If she were to equally denounce the manyGǪ. excesses of the State, then perhaps I would have more interest.
Care to name at least two?
James Syagrius wrote: Otherwise, as ever she is just a feckless hack whose rabble rousing isnGÇÖt worth further consideration.
Syagrius, I'd like to remind you that it was YOU, who has shown whole IGS you aren't worth further consideration, not me. Ref.: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=474649
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2556
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Posted - 2016.04.13 13:37:49 -
[42] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote: but really, do continue digging your own hole.
"iyammarrok", I have pointed you where you have publically denounced easily verifiable fact ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6437045#post6437045 ) here, showing yourself as a clown to the whole IGS, and all you tried to do is to try to divert conversation to discussion of planetary atmospheres?
Stop barking from YOUR hole, because I don't think anyone could ever fall lower than you.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
747
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:24:10 -
[43] - Quote
I would prefer if there were no more personal attacks leveled within this thread by those of us participating in the Assembly. Gods know that I've had many sharp words on the IGS in the past, but in this case we should set an example of cordiality.
Commander Kim, I am willing to hear what you have to say at the Assembly in time. Now, we are in the process of recruiting new members and finding our footing. In our previous exchange you were willing to acknowledge that I was not denying facts of the Caldari POW matter. I commended you for that, and respected the integrity it required. If you hope to see this matter addressed with your input in the Assembly, it will require a small amount of respect on your part.
Everyone else, I very much appreciate the discussion so far. You are all raising important questions about what the purpose of this Assembly will be, and what challenges we will face. Please continue, and if possible, do so in a respectful manner. |
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
356
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Posted - 2016.04.13 16:26:19 -
[44] - Quote
As someone with personal and business interests in the Gallente Federation, I'm interested in being an envoy of an Amarrian organization. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2556
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Posted - 2016.04.13 18:13:15 -
[45] - Quote
Very well, Ms. Vero. Thank you.
I'll respect your Assembly in my turn. But on any attack including insult I'll reply as usual. Tenfold or greater.
Also please don't expect from me any respect to the Federation or any of occupants, should they be found on Caldari Prime, Black Rise or other Caldari worlds.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Rook Moray
Cell 13 Salvage
74
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Posted - 2016.04.14 23:33:53 -
[46] - Quote
Sounds like fun. I'm in.
But you really need to reach out to the ILF. This ain't gonna be half what it could be unless Intaki has a voice at the table.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥ -Guristas Proverb.
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Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
278
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Posted - 2016.04.15 02:05:28 -
[47] - Quote
Namas Tayam
I have been following this discussion since Gen. Vero's opening announcement, and take the invitation for participation by non-Federal groups to be genuine.
I'm pleased that some here believe the Intaki Liberation Front's voice, and that of the wider and Intaki Prosperity Initiative, is important enough to be heard and listened to, and so I will be providing the necessary contact details for you to submit a formal invitation.
I am sure you will understand that my own participation is likely to be focussed on topics which matter most to my organisation, and the people we work to support.
However, as others have said, this assembly irisks seen as a Moira.-led initiative, and that brings a particular "diplomatic" reputation into play, especially when it comes to the topics of discussion I'll be more involved in.
It is my hope that the personal and professional reputations (or lack thereof) each of us will bring, will not undermine what appear on face value to be the good intentions behind the creation of the Villore Assembly.
Bataav
Mahesha | Intaki Liberation Front & Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Mighty Wings.
5861
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Posted - 2016.04.15 03:39:50 -
[48] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Sounds like fun. I'm in.
But you really need to reach out to the ILF. This ain't gonna be half what it could be unless Intaki has a voice at the table.
What, Intaki can't have a voice at the table unless it's the ILF? Take into consideration that a significant majority of Intaki's population are pro-Federation.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1671
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Posted - 2016.04.15 05:35:48 -
[49] - Quote
An interesting idea, though as with most other endeavors to bring issues to the attention of the Powers That Be, I have trouble seeing a proper response from them being among the potential outcomes.
That said, I'll see if someone in my corporation might be interested. Failing that, I will consider volunteering myself.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
278
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Posted - 2016.04.15 14:32:32 -
[50] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Rook Moray wrote:Sounds like fun. I'm in.
But you really need to reach out to the ILF. This ain't gonna be half what it could be unless Intaki has a voice at the table.
What, Intaki can't have a voice at the table unless it's the ILF? Take into consideration that a significant majority of Intaki's population are pro-Federation. I think it's more a reflection of the fact no other capsuleer organisation has dedicated an entire decade, investing the proverbial blood, sweat and tears into the Intaki system, for the benefit of its people.
I have no interest in derailing sensible and reasonable discussions with calls for independence, if it's not appropriate to the matter at hand. To do so would simply validate claims by some of our political opponants that we are not a group with Intaki's best interests at heart.
We're not the political extremists of Intaki Pure, pushing some misguided isolationist agenda at all costs. The Intaki Prosperity Initiative is perfectly capable of taking a wider view, and our record shows that we're more than comfortable working alongside other groups with differing political views to our own.
Bataav
Mahesha | Intaki Liberation Front & Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
748
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Posted - 2016.04.15 16:07:03 -
[51] - Quote
I am glad to see that our colleagues from the ILF are wiling to participate in the Assembly. Although we disagree on the matter of independence, I have come to believe they share a genuine desire for the betterment of the Intaki people. Also, it must not be forgotten that despite their support for radical secessionist politics, many of their members remain citizens of the Federation. Their voice should not be silenced or ignored.
I also think Mahesha Bataav's comments on the risk that the Villore Assembly may be seen as "Moira-led" bear further discussion. Obviously, I'm a Moira pilot, and other Moira pilots are involved. Our history as aggressive defenders of Federation sovereignty is well known. Ultimately, it will be up to the wider community to decide whether the Villore Assembly adequately enables the participation of others, or not. I hope it is clear for now that we are striving to be open and welcoming to all interested parties.
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Alex Hinkelmann
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
8
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Posted - 2016.04.15 16:49:35 -
[52] - Quote
Rinai Vero, while at this time the Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive has no plans to participate in what appears to be a matter of the Federation. We would like to send observers to this initiative. |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
748
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Posted - 2016.04.15 17:30:52 -
[53] - Quote
Alex Hinkelmann wrote:Rinai Vero, while at this time the Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive has no plans to participate in what appears to be a matter of the Federation. We would like to send observers to this initiative.
I've already been in contact with Korsavius, who has asked to observe on IRED's behalf. Given his longstanding ties with your organization we've already granted him Envoy status. If IRED would like to send any other observers, please forward their contact information to me via evemail. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2563
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Posted - 2016.04.15 20:47:47 -
[54] - Quote
That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?..
Honestly, for myself, there is absolutely nothing interesting in Federal-related stuff unless it goes outside the Federation. Oh, well, except one: utter and complete destruction of the said Federation. But something tells me nobody would be interested in hearing this... suggestion... in the Assembly if I'll come with it.
Though, maybe, I shall try? I could even make a presentation! With colorful pictures for our Brutor "friend".
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
748
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Posted - 2016.04.15 20:51:50 -
[55] - Quote
I'm going to guess that the Secretary General would rule comments of that nature out of order. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7479
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Posted - 2016.04.16 00:59:07 -
[56] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I second Mr. Onzo's concerns on the ability of this body to affect change. What's more, I am deeply concerned that an assembly lead by active participants in the Gallente-Caldari warzone are unlikely to be the most capable peace-makers, nor able to put forward policies that will gain significant traction outside the Federation itself. Further yet, by rendering largely powerless any non-Federation participant, I worry that participation in this endeavor is tantamount to subordination to Federation interests.
Simply, there are a number of high-minded ideals here, but I am unconvinced.
What will your assembly's task be with regard to the Pakhshi Peace Conference results? What do you consider to be the assembly's foremost matters for attention? Who are currently delegates, and what are their affiliations? If a delegate pushed for an Intaki popular referendum on Federation membership, what would be your assembly's position? Have you solicited the Intaki Prosperity Initiative for involvement?
Provided an adequately broad-minded response to these questions and concerns, I may have an envoy in mind, one who is known for her diplomatic stance.
An independent Intaki homeworld (well, as best as the Syndicate would continue to pretend not to run it).
Not a bad thing really. People get tired of being "ruled" by representatives elected by people light years away, who sit at desks light years away, and tell us what's good for us. The Syndicate at least has people who don't need a map to find their way around it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Alex Hinkelmann
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
8
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Posted - 2016.04.16 02:36:24 -
[57] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?..
It has been public knowledge for the better part of a decade that like many Megacorporations within the State Ishukone-Raata conducts a fair amount of trade with our neighbors - no matter the state of political posture of either side. Ishukone too has a vested interest throughout their sovereign space.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2564
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Posted - 2016.04.16 07:51:43 -
[58] - Quote
Alex Hinkelmann wrote:Diana Kim wrote:That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?.. It has been public knowledge for the better part of a decade that like many Megacorporations within the State Ishukone-Raata conducts a fair amount of trade with our neighbors - no matter the state of political posture of either side. Ishukone too has a vested interest throughout their sovereign space. No matter the state of political posture including open war? When all other Caldari people are fighting with them, you are trading with them.
When they torture our prisoners, you are trading with them.
When they occupy our homeworld, you are trading with them.
When they crash our titans on our planets, killing millions, you are trading with them.
Good job, enjoy your trade, I guess?..
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
226
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Posted - 2016.04.16 10:13:33 -
[59] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Not a bad thing really. People get tired of being "ruled" by representatives elected by people light years away, who sit at desks light years away, and tell us what's good for us. The Syndicate at least has people who don't need a map to find their way around it.
If this happens, it's entirely of that people's own fault. Local politics might not be fashionable or glamorous, but it's the lifeblood of the Federation. Every District Assembly needs citizens to be engaged, to lobby and to vote.
There's far too much whining about how the 'elite' run the Senate as if the people don't matter, when the same people refuse to get off their couches and vote. Senators can be held to account by their local assemblies, but only if those deputies have a mandate that scares them. And it's not just at election time - politically active citizens keep their representatives - I was about to write 'honest' but that would be an overly extravagant claim - keep them attentive.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Alex Hinkelmann
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
9
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Posted - 2016.04.16 18:29:25 -
[60] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Alex Hinkelmann wrote:Diana Kim wrote:That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?.. It has been public knowledge for the better part of a decade that like many Megacorporations within the State Ishukone-Raata conducts a fair amount of trade with our neighbors - no matter the state of political posture of either side. Ishukone too has a vested interest throughout their sovereign space. No matter the state of political posture including open war? When all other Caldari people are fighting with them, you are trading with them. When they torture our prisoners, you are trading with them. When they occupy our homeworld, you are trading with them. When they crash our titans on our planets, killing millions, you are trading with them. Good job, enjoy your trade, I guess?..
Business is in the Caldari spirit. It is what makes the State what it is today, Ishukone-Raata and Ishukone are not alone in this thinking.
To name a few dutiful Caldari Corporations who still continue their agreements with the Gallente and manage assets within the sovereign boundaries of the Federation:
- The Caldari Business Tribunal - CBD Corporation - Expert Distribution - Kaalakiota Corporation - Lai Dai - Modern Finances - Nugoeihuvi Corporation - Wiyrkomi Corporation
The lines in this proxy war are rather grey. At least since the fall of Heth. |
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