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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13969
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Posted - 2016.04.29 17:33:52 -
[31] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.
Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! |
Elnia Arthie
A Dead Cookie Doesn't Crumble
3
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Posted - 2016.04.30 09:15:44 -
[32] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die!
Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship. |
Dani Gallar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2016.04.30 09:56:39 -
[33] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship.
Why compare EVE:s made up space ships with IRL US Navy ships ?
If we continue this comparison one Stealth Bomber (EVE:s submarines) should be able to take down a Carrier by their own most of the time.
For me the only thing that matters is balance and one of the best ways to find this is by making a comparison of ISK-value (if all participants have somewhat equal player skill). By doing this you will insure that if a group of players want to take out a 'big fish' they either:
A. Bring several Big Fishes of their own. B. Bring smaller ships in sufficent numbers to overwhealm the Big Fish. C. A combination of A and B. |
Hawke Frost
38
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Posted - 2016.04.30 11:24:13 -
[34] - Quote
Dani Gallar wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship. Why compare EVE:s made up space ships with IRL US Navy ships ? If we continue this comparison one Stealth Bomber (EVE:s submarines) should be able to take down a Carrier by their own most of the time. For me the only thing that matters is balance and one of the best ways to find this is by making a comparison of ISK-value (if all participants have somewhat equal player skill). By doing this you will insure that if a group of players want to take out a 'big fish' they either: A. Bring several Big Fishes of their own. B. Bring smaller ships in sufficent numbers to overwhealm the Big Fish. C. A combination of A and B.
So you're defending CCP's ever ongoing inability to use logic or achieve balance with the always hilarious "cost is the balancing factor". Carriers becoming better at combat because they lost their RR role is fine and makes sense but right now they're too good and completely ignoring the "bigger isn't necessarily better" thing that is so important for the game. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2350
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Posted - 2016.04.30 18:51:16 -
[35] - Quote
Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games.
I'm guessing this is one of those unintended consequences?
CCP how about raising the redock timer for aggressors to about 30 mins instead of 1? Better yet do away with combat altogether when escape is a single click to insta dock.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
299
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Posted - 2016.04.30 18:57:36 -
[36] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games. All of them?
How many is that?
If we're going for crazy claims, then let's get the crazy numbers as support. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2350
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Posted - 2016.04.30 19:01:45 -
[37] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Sentamon wrote:Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games. All of them? How many is that? If we're going for crazy claims, then let's get the crazy numbers as support.
Your train has derailed.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13978
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Posted - 2016.04.30 22:39:24 -
[38] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship.
This is not a game about the U.S. Navy.
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violator2k5
Crescent Nova
15
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Posted - 2016.04.30 23:58:35 -
[39] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.
ceptors are paper thin anyway so its not surprising in the least that they can get hit so hard even if you do use a plated ceptor. As for the locking speed I'm curious as to how fast it was considering the ship scale difference. |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2016.05.01 00:15:14 -
[40] - Quote
Congrats on finding your "i win button" must of been hard controlling all those drones attacking various ships. |
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W33b3l
Conquest and Kittens
91
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Posted - 2016.05.01 20:37:21 -
[41] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I'm not all that familiar with captials so this is kind of a silly question...
Is this the proper balance?
Should a carrier or other capital ship just be able to quickly down something close in size? (I would think a battleship would qualify as a capital ship just from the modern definition of a capital ship. Maybe it doesn't apply in EVE.)
As a relation, in a modern wet Navy, a carrier is most certainly vulnerable to even a cheap diesel submarine. This is whey they have large escort fleets to sweep the seas and skies clear of threats before they can land on the carrier.
If carriers are intended to be able to fly solo and be highly dangerous, then yes it sounds like it's balanced. If they are supposed to have a need for logistic or support ships around them, it sounds like the pendulum may have swung too far the other way.
So I guess the real question is, what is the intent of these super capital ships?
Game wise I believe so, although I've never flown one.
As for the modern day comparrison, think of it this way. A space ship can not sink. One good hole in even the largest of boat on the water and blurb blurb blurb down to Davey Jonses Locker.
A space ship just continues to float there being able to use any functional systems until it explodes (in game) or if "real life" until the guns are to damaged to fire and or the crew dies..... Or is explodes.
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
732
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Posted - 2016.05.03 19:57:18 -
[42] - Quote
Game balance wise, the song we goons sing is that subcaps must have an effect on capital gameplay.
The lowered hitpoints is ccp's attempt to do this, but they also drastically increase capital ships effectiveness on subcaps. It's easier to kill frigates in carriers and dreads than it is in battleships. Also the aoe weapons on titans ignore things like sig radius.
Pre-citadels, goon war philosophy is that you can't have unsupported caps on the field. We only used ours when we had subcap supremacy. Now maybe you can have unsupported caps, but no one has done it on a strategic level. Also supercapitals still can't tackle each other so well without bubble support.
How the Imperium and PL/NC interprets the mechanics is what will dictate the meta in mass combat.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1146
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Posted - 2016.05.04 02:57:18 -
[43] - Quote
W33b3l wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:I'm not all that familiar with captials so this is kind of a silly question...
Is this the proper balance?
Should a carrier or other capital ship just be able to quickly down something close in size? (I would think a battleship would qualify as a capital ship just from the modern definition of a capital ship. Maybe it doesn't apply in EVE.)
As a relation, in a modern wet Navy, a carrier is most certainly vulnerable to even a cheap diesel submarine. This is whey they have large escort fleets to sweep the seas and skies clear of threats before they can land on the carrier.
If carriers are intended to be able to fly solo and be highly dangerous, then yes it sounds like it's balanced. If they are supposed to have a need for logistic or support ships around them, it sounds like the pendulum may have swung too far the other way.
So I guess the real question is, what is the intent of these super capital ships? Game wise I believe so, although I've never flown one. As for the modern day comparrison, think of it this way. A space ship can not sink. One good hole in even the largest of boat on the water and blurb blurb blurb down to Davey Jonses Locker. A space ship just continues to float there being able to use any functional systems until it explodes (in game) or if "real life" until the guns are to damaged to fire and or the crew dies..... Or is explodes.
It's like there isn't any walls inside a ship to prevent one hole in the hull someone was using as a replacement for women to sink the entire ship.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
357
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Posted - 2016.05.04 02:58:36 -
[44] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship. A real life carrier is most certainly not defenseless against another ship. Even alone, it can and will do massive damage if not outright murder any other ship it's put against simply because it can launch fighter after fighter after fighter, all of which will have a full load of ordinance capable of doing heavy damage to all aspects of a modern ship of any size. And if the carrier was truely in danger, the fighters would more than likely risk their lives to destroy the offending ship, because carriers hold thousands of crew aboard them, and if you're a pilot you have a duty to protect those people to the best of your abilities. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4195
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Posted - 2016.05.04 05:22:16 -
[45] - Quote
Warships of pretty much all types are ridiculously vulnerable to small boat attack when operating in high traffic littoral areas. However that's in large part due difficulty of differentiating between civilian craft and hostile craft. The whole business is largely considered an antiterrorism/force protection issue rather than a deficiency in the combat characteristics of particular ships. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
795
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Posted - 2016.05.04 07:38:08 -
[46] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games.
I'm guessing this is one of those unintended consequences?
CCP how about raising the redock timer for aggressors to about 30 mins instead of 1? Better yet do away with combat altogether when escape is a single click to insta dock.
I'm not sure insta-locking carriers capable of alpha'ing ceptors is a good idea.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2408
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Posted - 2016.05.04 12:06:19 -
[47] - Quote
Don't get to excited these things are new and ppl are still using old tactics on them. Thoughs of us who did everything we can to break these on sisi have found just how weak they are to very simple set ups.it won't take long for the rest of Eve to as well.
Also small tip for interceptors use superiority fighters they do better dps even after the reduction. They also have a much greater range making it very hard for the interceptor to keep point and out of their range (impossable with a single omni fit)
Citadel worm hole tax
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marVLs
729
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:13:12 -
[48] - Quote
I think that's awesome, now capital ship is a real capital ship, and its worth flying them for more players.
It was so dumb mechanic to such a big, skill intensive and costing a lot could be killed by anything... Now more peps will want them, even those PVE players because they have a chance to defend themselfs, or at least have some fun killing few dudes before die. That's the perfect strategy for CCP, more players in null, more engaged, more isk sink, more fun.
Damn i myself want carrier now soo badly and im sure i will move to null or wh corp to fly them both in pvp and pve |
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