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RuthAD
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
22
   |
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:01:22 -
[1] - Quote
Last night I was ratting away idiotically not paying attention to intel. A hostile fleet was one jump out and I was oblivious.
A ceptor jumps in and tackles me before I can warp my fat **** out. Pre-patch I would have been more or less screwed, unable to refit and using a not very good fit for defending myself.
Local jumps by around 10-15 hostiles, at this point I'm cursing myself for not watching intel and pretty much given up. I have one squadron of fighters hopelessly chasing a ceptor, then the hostile fleet lands on me. I overheat my rep and hardeners in a vein attempt to last longer.
Then I throw the dice, I recall all fighters, lock up all targets and decide to try and put them all on the biggest DPS ships they have to try and last long enough for a defence fleet to form.
BANG - my first target is an oracle which instapops as my fighters launch their new weapons after almost immediately reaching him with their MWD's. I pull back my fighters and repeat on an orthorus. BANG. Then the gila ... BANG. All three instapopped. At this point the remaining fleet decided it was a bad idea to stick around and they removed themselves from system leaving me to warp safely away with a slight smile spread across my face.
Congratulations CCP. Carriers once again can proudly hold their own against a small fleet, instead of slowly dying unable to do anything once a ceptor tackles them. |
Caldari Citizen 115-16-18737
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:06:44 -
[2] - Quote
Target locked, guns are hot.
Full speed ahead.
Bang bang you're dead!
You may think you have a shot
To take me down.
Victory's mine instead!
Got my best fit on,
We're gonna have some fun
Tonight!
Are you ready for a fight?
Bring on the wrecking machine!
Setting your dreams of heaven on fire!
Bring on the wrecking machine!
Bring on the wrecking machine!
Gonna ignite your every desire!
Bring on the wrecking machine!
For every city you burn,
Let it burn,
Let it burn,
let it burn!
Let it burn!n++ |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:33:46 -
[3] - Quote
damnit i keep reading sarcastic overtones where there are none...
Although a carrier being able to whipe out a fleet several times its worth seems....Strange at best.
So Carriers: 1 Dreadnoughts: -1? |
RuthAD
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:41:34 -
[4] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:damnit i keep reading sarcastic overtones where there are none...
Although a carrier being able to whipe out a fleet several times its worth seems....Strange at best.
So Carriers: 1 Dreadnoughts: -1?
Their entire fleet was probably worth twice as much as my carrier and I only killed 3 of them, worth around 700m, so I don't think it's strange. How many multi billion carriers have been killed by a couple of hundred mil of crap fleets over the past couple of years? |
Aluanna
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:46:04 -
[5] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:damnit i keep reading sarcastic overtones where there are none...
Although a carrier being able to whipe out a fleet several times its worth seems....Strange at best.
So Carriers: 1 Dreadnoughts: -1?
Uhh.. the carrier only took out a Oracle, an orthus and a Gila... not exactly several times the carriers worth...
Ideas for missile launchers to make firing missiles more interesting/rewarding
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
1466
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 11:16:55 -
[6] - Quote
Good story. Glad to hear these changes have some positive effects.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
377
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 11:27:59 -
[7] - Quote
Cool story 
@lunettelulu7
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
1365
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:23:17 -
[8] - Quote
Excellent to hear that, well done in going for it and excellent result, I will love using carriers now.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2417
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:37:44 -
[9] - Quote
What fighters, weapons did you use? Where you able to hit the interceptors?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
725
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:50:30 -
[10] - Quote
I've been throwing subcaps against capitals on the test server. (I forgot I had my own carrier account subbed. goons don't log in their caps you see.)
A couple of carriers can alpha battlecruisers and battleships quite easily. Unsupported capitals running around is going to be a thing. The big boys no longer need subcap support.
Feature working as intended, I think.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Tomika
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:52:33 -
[11] - Quote
Where is the evidence that this actually occurred? Or did I fail to detect extreme sarcasm? |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
725
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:53:56 -
[12] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Where is the evidence that this actually occurred? Or did I fail to detect extreme sarcasm?
I believe him. Carriers are that good now.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1120
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:55:27 -
[13] - Quote
Came in expecting tears, entitlement, gameplay mechanic ignorace and general whining got competence instead. Something is wrong GD! I SHOULD BE SEEING WHININGS ABOUT HOW HIS CARRIER DIED TO SOMETHING!
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
|
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
FETID
461
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 13:04:35 -
[14] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Came in expecting tears, entitlement, gameplay mechanic ignorace and general whining got competence instead. Something is wrong GD! I SHOULD BE SEEING WHININGS ABOUT HOW HIS CARRIER DIED TO SOMETHING!
I seen a killmail of a Chimera being killed by a NPC dread.
That being said: Good story, glad to see that carriers seems to work.
Sneaky bastard.
|
Tomika
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 13:36:29 -
[15] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Tomika wrote:Where is the evidence that this actually occurred? Or did I fail to detect extreme sarcasm? I believe him. Carriers are that good now.
Hmm. Goon... Minerbumping link in sig... still not convinced  |
Sp3ktr3
Unicorn Rampage
23
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 14:44:43 -
[16] - Quote
I approve. Carriers are good again. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
726
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 15:18:07 -
[17] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:Tomika wrote:Where is the evidence that this actually occurred? Or did I fail to detect extreme sarcasm? I believe him. Carriers are that good now. Hmm. Goon... Minerbumping link in sig... still not convinced
Maybe the fact that I'm a goon and I have carriers too will convince ccp to nerf them. 
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
190
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 15:19:58 -
[18] - Quote
I'm not all that familiar with captials so this is kind of a silly question...
Is this the proper balance?
Should a carrier or other capital ship just be able to quickly down something close in size? (I would think a battleship would qualify as a capital ship just from the modern definition of a capital ship. Maybe it doesn't apply in EVE.)
As a relation, in a modern wet Navy, a carrier is most certainly vulnerable to even a cheap diesel submarine. This is whey they have large escort fleets to sweep the seas and skies clear of threats before they can land on the carrier.
If carriers are intended to be able to fly solo and be highly dangerous, then yes it sounds like it's balanced. If they are supposed to have a need for logistic or support ships around them, it sounds like the pendulum may have swung too far the other way.
So I guess the real question is, what is the intent of these super capital ships?
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Super Miguel
Arsenic.
The Volition Cult
5
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 15:39:46 -
[19] - Quote
Whats your fit? |
Atomic Virulent
Dark Matter Industrial
149
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 15:56:07 -
[20] - Quote
KM or it didn't happen.
Also, as this OP cannot be found on any killboards I'm assuming this was on an alt?? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13960
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 16:14:24 -
[21] - Quote
Atomic Virulent wrote:KM or it didn't happen.
Also, as this OP cannot be found on any killboards I'm assuming this was on an alt??
Can't post it here because of forum rules, but I found the killmails on Zkill. Just look for an Oracle (and Gila and Orthrus) killed in H74-BO (Querious) around 21:50 eve time yesterday.
Good job OP.
|
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
1037
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 16:18:16 -
[22] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I'm not all that familiar with captials so this is kind of a silly question...
Is this the proper balance?
Should a carrier or other capital ship just be able to quickly down something close in size? (I would think a battleship would qualify as a capital ship just from the modern definition of a capital ship. Maybe it doesn't apply in EVE.)
As a relation, in a modern wet Navy, a carrier is most certainly vulnerable to even a cheap diesel submarine. This is whey they have large escort fleets to sweep the seas and skies clear of threats before they can land on the carrier.
If carriers are intended to be able to fly solo and be highly dangerous, then yes it sounds like it's balanced. If they are supposed to have a need for logistic or support ships around them, it sounds like the pendulum may have swung too far the other way.
So I guess the real question is, what is the intent of these super capital ships?
A battleship in eve would be analogous to the pre-dreadnaught battleships of around 1900. An EVE Dreadnaught would be more analogous to a post HMS Dreadnaught or closer to say the Bismarck.
A carrier is closer to a WW2 carrier such as Yorktown or Hornet. A super carrier is closer to a modern day carrier like the Ronald Regan or George W Bush.
As for the fight, there are other factors. An Oracle is a glass cannon. It has big guns and no real defenses under normal circumstances. It is a battlecruiser and it popping quickly is no surprise. An orthus (if I am remembering correctly) isn't that bit either. So the fight was fairly balanced.
In all honesty, a on eve carrier should probably be able to fight 8 battleships and it be a close fight. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7564
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 16:38:04 -
[23] - Quote
RuthAD wrote:Last night I was ratting away idiotically not paying attention to intel. A hostile fleet was one jump out and I was oblivious.
A ceptor jumps in and tackles me before I can warp my fat **** out. Pre-patch I would have been more or less screwed, unable to refit and using a not very good fit for defending myself.
Local jumps by around 10-15 hostiles, at this point I'm cursing myself for not watching intel and pretty much given up. I have one squadron of fighters hopelessly chasing a ceptor, then the hostile fleet lands on me. I overheat my rep and hardeners in a vein attempt to last longer.
Then I throw the dice, I recall all fighters, lock up all targets and decide to try and put them all on the biggest DPS ships they have to try and last long enough for a defence fleet to form.
BANG - my first target is an oracle which instapops as my fighters launch their new weapons after almost immediately reaching him with their MWD's. I pull back my fighters and repeat on an orthorus. BANG. Then the gila ... BANG. All three instapopped. At this point the remaining fleet decided it was a bad idea to stick around and they removed themselves from system leaving me to warp safely away with a slight smile spread across my face.
Congratulations CCP. Carriers once again can proudly hold their own against a small fleet, instead of slowly dying unable to do anything once a ceptor tackles them.
On the one hand, I can remember the day so the "SC PWNmobiles" that helped make nullsec suck and ultimately led to nullsec sucking even more later on when the age of the blue donut started.
On the other hand, big ships with high investment and time being taken out by small gangs where after all that SP and ISK you have to choose between sitting there like an idiot or SD is kind of stupid. "Big" should mean something.
Now, if only we could get real with these fake physics and adapt some logic over whether a ship the size of a 747 can web a ship the size of Manhattan.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
1000
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 17:39:23 -
[24] - Quote
Eh, I'm thrilled you had a good time with the new carriers, but the old ratting carriers weren't actually all that defenseless with a heavy neut and some geckos or lights, especially with a cyno.
I don't know how it is going to play out, but as far as I can tell, ratting carriers are far more vulnerable now, or it seems so. Before, you just light and 5-10 other ratting carriers cyno in and spider tank their way to small-gang immunity. Now large remote reps actually rep more on non-fax carriers than capital remote reps...now instead of a group of ratting carriers being self sufficient, it seems you actually need a few faxes on standby to be able to keep them up.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3389
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 18:30:43 -
[25] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Tomika wrote:Where is the evidence that this actually occurred? Or did I fail to detect extreme sarcasm? I believe him. Carriers are that good now.
I would have given you a like, but miner bumping...oh well, the thought was there.
I hope you are happy having CODE as your new overlords.
This is not a signature.
|
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
727
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 19:23:39 -
[26] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Eh, I'm thrilled you had a good time with the new carriers, but the old ratting carriers weren't actually all that defenseless with a heavy neut and some geckos or lights, especially with a cyno.
I don't know how it is going to play out, but as far as I can tell, ratting carriers are far more vulnerable now, or it seems so. Before, you just light and 5-10 other ratting carriers cyno in and spider tank their way to small-gang immunity. Now large remote reps actually rep more on non-fax carriers than capital remote reps...now instead of a group of ratting carriers being self sufficient, it seems you actually need a few faxes on standby to be able to keep them up.
You won't need faxes if most hostile fleets die by the time it takes to chew through a well tanked carrier's armor.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
191
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 19:26:21 -
[27] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:A battleship in eve would be analogous to the pre-dreadnaught battleships of around 1900. An EVE Dreadnaught would be more analogous to a post HMS Dreadnaught or closer to say the Bismarck.
A carrier is closer to a WW2 carrier such as Yorktown or Hornet. A super carrier is closer to a modern day carrier like the Ronald Regan or George W Bush.
As for the fight, there are other factors. An Oracle is a glass cannon. It has big guns and no real defenses under normal circumstances. It is a battlecruiser and it popping quickly is no surprise. An orthus (if I am remembering correctly) isn't that bit either. So the fight was fairly balanced.
In all honesty, a on eve carrier should probably be able to fight 8 battleships and it be a close fight.
So the balancing mechanism would be the ISK involved in the combat, not so much the ships definitions of what they are. Interesting. Thanks for the assistance.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
d0cTeR9
Serenity Cartel
Rebel Squad
323
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 20:26:51 -
[28] - Quote
RuthAD wrote:Henry Plantgenet wrote:damnit i keep reading sarcastic overtones where there are none...
Although a carrier being able to whipe out a fleet several times its worth seems....Strange at best.
So Carriers: 1 Dreadnoughts: -1? Their entire fleet was probably worth twice as much as my carrier and I only killed 3 of them, worth around 700m, so I don't think it's strange. How many multi billion carriers have been killed by a couple of hundred mil of crap fleets over the past couple of years?
A LOT.
Been around since the beginning.
|
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1127
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 21:28:50 -
[29] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:RuthAD wrote:Henry Plantgenet wrote:damnit i keep reading sarcastic overtones where there are none...
Although a carrier being able to whipe out a fleet several times its worth seems....Strange at best.
So Carriers: 1 Dreadnoughts: -1? Their entire fleet was probably worth twice as much as my carrier and I only killed 3 of them, worth around 700m, so I don't think it's strange. How many multi billion carriers have been killed by a couple of hundred mil of crap fleets over the past couple of years? A LOT.
Now filter in how many of them are NOT afk thinking carrier ratting is like mining in a skiff with an ore hold the size of a cargo expanded charon.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
|
Elnia Arthie
A Dead Cookie Doesn't Crumble
3
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 17:24:04 -
[30] - Quote
Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13969
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 17:33:52 -
[31] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.
Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! |
Elnia Arthie
A Dead Cookie Doesn't Crumble
3
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 09:15:44 -
[32] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die!
Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship. |
Dani Gallar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 09:56:39 -
[33] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship.
Why compare EVE:s made up space ships with IRL US Navy ships ?
If we continue this comparison one Stealth Bomber (EVE:s submarines) should be able to take down a Carrier by their own most of the time.
For me the only thing that matters is balance and one of the best ways to find this is by making a comparison of ISK-value (if all participants have somewhat equal player skill). By doing this you will insure that if a group of players want to take out a 'big fish' they either:
A. Bring several Big Fishes of their own.
B. Bring smaller ships in sufficent numbers to overwhealm the Big Fish.
C. A combination of A and B. |
Hawke Frost
38
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 11:24:13 -
[34] - Quote
Dani Gallar wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship. Why compare EVE:s made up space ships with IRL US Navy ships ? If we continue this comparison one Stealth Bomber (EVE:s submarines) should be able to take down a Carrier by their own most of the time. For me the only thing that matters is balance and one of the best ways to find this is by making a comparison of ISK-value (if all participants have somewhat equal player skill). By doing this you will insure that if a group of players want to take out a 'big fish' they either: A. Bring several Big Fishes of their own. B. Bring smaller ships in sufficent numbers to overwhealm the Big Fish. C. A combination of A and B.
So you're defending CCP's ever ongoing inability to use logic or achieve balance with the always hilarious "cost is the balancing factor". Carriers becoming better at combat because they lost their RR role is fine and makes sense but right now they're too good and completely ignoring the "bigger isn't necessarily better" thing that is so important for the game. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2350
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 18:51:16 -
[35] - Quote
Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games.
I'm guessing this is one of those unintended consequences?
CCP how about raising the redock timer for aggressors to about 30 mins instead of 1? Better yet do away with combat altogether when escape is a single click to insta dock.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
299
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 18:57:36 -
[36] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games.
All of them?
How many is that?
If we're going for crazy claims, then let's get the crazy numbers as support. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2350
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 19:01:45 -
[37] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Sentamon wrote:Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games. All of them? How many is that? If we're going for crazy claims, then let's get the crazy numbers as support.
Your train has derailed.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
13978
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 22:39:24 -
[38] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship.
This is not a game about the U.S. Navy.
|
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
15
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 23:58:35 -
[39] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.
ceptors are paper thin anyway so its not surprising in the least that they can get hit so hard even if you do use a plated ceptor. As for the locking speed I'm curious as to how fast it was considering the ship scale difference. |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 00:15:14 -
[40] - Quote
Congrats on finding your "i win button" must of been hard controlling all those drones attacking various ships. |
W33b3l
Conquest and Kittens
91
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 20:37:21 -
[41] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I'm not all that familiar with captials so this is kind of a silly question...
Is this the proper balance?
Should a carrier or other capital ship just be able to quickly down something close in size? (I would think a battleship would qualify as a capital ship just from the modern definition of a capital ship. Maybe it doesn't apply in EVE.)
As a relation, in a modern wet Navy, a carrier is most certainly vulnerable to even a cheap diesel submarine. This is whey they have large escort fleets to sweep the seas and skies clear of threats before they can land on the carrier.
If carriers are intended to be able to fly solo and be highly dangerous, then yes it sounds like it's balanced. If they are supposed to have a need for logistic or support ships around them, it sounds like the pendulum may have swung too far the other way.
So I guess the real question is, what is the intent of these super capital ships?
Game wise I believe so, although I've never flown one.
As for the modern day comparrison, think of it this way. A space ship can not sink. One good hole in even the largest of boat on the water and blurb blurb blurb down to Davey Jonses Locker.
A space ship just continues to float there being able to use any functional systems until it explodes (in game) or if "real life" until the guns are to damaged to fire and or the crew dies..... Or is explodes.
|
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
732
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 19:57:18 -
[42] - Quote
Game balance wise, the song we goons sing is that subcaps must have an effect on capital gameplay.
The lowered hitpoints is ccp's attempt to do this, but they also drastically increase capital ships effectiveness on subcaps. It's easier to kill frigates in carriers and dreads than it is in battleships. Also the aoe weapons on titans ignore things like sig radius.
Pre-citadels, goon war philosophy is that you can't have unsupported caps on the field. We only used ours when we had subcap supremacy. Now maybe you can have unsupported caps, but no one has done it on a strategic level. Also supercapitals still can't tackle each other so well without bubble support.
How the Imperium and PL/NC interprets the mechanics is what will dictate the meta in mass combat.
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Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1146
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Posted - 2016.05.04 02:57:18 -
[43] - Quote
W33b3l wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:I'm not all that familiar with captials so this is kind of a silly question...
Is this the proper balance?
Should a carrier or other capital ship just be able to quickly down something close in size? (I would think a battleship would qualify as a capital ship just from the modern definition of a capital ship. Maybe it doesn't apply in EVE.)
As a relation, in a modern wet Navy, a carrier is most certainly vulnerable to even a cheap diesel submarine. This is whey they have large escort fleets to sweep the seas and skies clear of threats before they can land on the carrier.
If carriers are intended to be able to fly solo and be highly dangerous, then yes it sounds like it's balanced. If they are supposed to have a need for logistic or support ships around them, it sounds like the pendulum may have swung too far the other way.
So I guess the real question is, what is the intent of these super capital ships? Game wise I believe so, although I've never flown one. As for the modern day comparrison, think of it this way. A space ship can not sink. One good hole in even the largest of boat on the water and blurb blurb blurb down to Davey Jonses Locker. A space ship just continues to float there being able to use any functional systems until it explodes (in game) or if "real life" until the guns are to damaged to fire and or the crew dies..... Or is explodes.
It's like there isn't any walls inside a ship to prevent one hole in the hull someone was using as a replacement for women to sink the entire ship.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
357
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Posted - 2016.05.04 02:58:36 -
[44] - Quote
Elnia Arthie wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Elnia Arthie wrote:Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).
Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard. Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die! Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship.
A real life carrier is most certainly not defenseless against another ship. Even alone, it can and will do massive damage if not outright murder any other ship it's put against simply because it can launch fighter after fighter after fighter, all of which will have a full load of ordinance capable of doing heavy damage to all aspects of a modern ship of any size. And if the carrier was truely in danger, the fighters would more than likely risk their lives to destroy the offending ship, because carriers hold thousands of crew aboard them, and if you're a pilot you have a duty to protect those people to the best of your abilities. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
4195
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Posted - 2016.05.04 05:22:16 -
[45] - Quote
Warships of pretty much all types are ridiculously vulnerable to small boat attack when operating in high traffic littoral areas. However that's in large part due difficulty of differentiating between civilian craft and hostile craft. The whole business is largely considered an antiterrorism/force protection issue rather than a deficiency in the combat characteristics of particular ships. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
795
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Posted - 2016.05.04 07:38:08 -
[46] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games.
I'm guessing this is one of those unintended consequences?
CCP how about raising the redock timer for aggressors to about 30 mins instead of 1? Better yet do away with combat altogether when escape is a single click to insta dock.
I'm not sure insta-locking carriers capable of alpha'ing ceptors is a good idea.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2408
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Posted - 2016.05.04 12:06:19 -
[47] - Quote
Don't get to excited these things are new and ppl are still using old tactics on them. Thoughs of us who did everything we can to break these on sisi have found just how weak they are to very simple set ups.it won't take long for the rest of Eve to as well.
Also small tip for interceptors use superiority fighters they do better dps even after the reduction. They also have a much greater range making it very hard for the interceptor to keep point and out of their range (impossable with a single omni fit)
Citadel worm hole tax
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marVLs
729
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:13:12 -
[48] - Quote
I think that's awesome, now capital ship is a real capital ship, and its worth flying them for more players.
It was so dumb mechanic to such a big, skill intensive and costing a lot could be killed by anything... Now more peps will want them, even those PVE players because they have a chance to defend themselfs, or at least have some fun killing few dudes before die.
That's the perfect strategy for CCP, more players in null, more engaged, more isk sink, more fun.
Damn i myself want carrier now soo badly and im sure i will move to null or wh corp to fly them both in pvp and pve  |
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