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Reason to be the good guy?

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kronlor Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.05.06 06:39:05 - [1] - Quote So as everyone knows for the most part in EVE you can do w/e you want or can to get ahead. Scam, lies and piracy are all viable strategies. So it makes me question what if any are the benefits to having any sort of moral compass at all in this game? I just dont see any benefit to being allies with concord, and not being the greatest scumbag possible. There are grand rewards for those who can scam and steal the best, but nothing for those who play by the rules. The honest good guys i guess have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. NOTE: no i was not scammed, cheated or blown up in anyway in the creation of this post, just something i thought about sitting in jita
Valkin Mordirc 2046	Posted - 2016.05.06 07:01:53 - [2] - Quote I'm sure the Victories in AG are well worth it. Specially in community standards. Also, Being a good guy has never been profitable. Unless it's a story driven and linear. So in a sandbox it's not really going to happen. Also technically you be the good guy to the Goonswarm and help fight off the MBC. Or been the good guy and get rid of the goon overlords with the MBC. All perspective really. And I find sparring a newbie, and talking to him, letting him know what he did wrong, or what he did right during a fight or what ever is, very rewarding. I have one guy and long time ago, he tried to fight my Tengu with a Corm. He died, and when I was over looking his Killmail, I saw some really newbie things, Dual tanked, mixed guns or something. I can't really remember, but I convo'ed him and told how to fit a corm for pvp. And some of the basic fitting rules. That was like 2 years ago? He went off with Spacemonkeys and roamed with bomber fleets for awhile He now lives in a C5 wormhole, And is making billions, he makes sure to convo me everytime when he notices I'm online just to chat and talk about how life is and how EVE is. He's actually a really neat guy, has learned a lot on his own since our encounter. But honestly seeing him go from blundering clumsy newbie. To running C5 sites and roaming with W-space gangs, is really cool and he said that me just talking to him and helping him out kept him in EVE. So that was a major victory and hella rewarding for me. I made a friend by just simply talking to a dude and showing him a few basic ropes. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Drax Kado School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 8	Posted - 2016.05.06 07:18:21 - [3] - Quote Not been playing that long but I don't want to be a bad guy, I look forward to doing more fighting but fighting for a point, not killing new players or pods in high sec, I could be playing eve wrong and missing the fun but I don't want to do bad stuff to people for the hell of it
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 15484	Posted - 2016.05.06 08:31:28 - [4] - Quote While we have done good and been " the gud guys" we were paid to so i cant actually talk about it. Also plenty of us do sone rather altruistic things for their own sake and thus dont bragg about them, as an individual i have and we still do as an alliance, i imagine the same goes for the others here. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri New Order Logistics CODE. 458	Posted - 2016.05.06 08:48:35 - [5] - Quote kronlor wrote: So as everyone knows for the most part in EVE you can do w/e you want or can to get ahead. Scam, lies and piracy are all viable strategies. So it makes me question what if any are the benefits to having any sort of moral compass at all in this game? Lore-wise, morals don't get along too well with being a capsuleer. I know nobody cares about EVE's lore anymore, but do take a look at the chronicles when you've got a minute to spare. In one of the stories (the one about a mortal sabotaging a battleship) you can read about a capsuleer clearing out a Gurista mining operation and killing many innocents in the process. Besides, you never know who you can trust here. EVE reminds me of DayZ. You can talk all you like about your moral qualities, but in the end of the day, when you see a neutral, you'll likely choose to shoot him in the face or GTFO. kronlor wrote: I just dont see any benefit to being allies with concord, and not being the greatest scumbag possible. You can thank CCP, who tried to rework the stillborn bounty hunting system a few years ago, but still screwed it up. Most players don't care about highsec carebears if there is no personal interest involved, and I can understand them. A lot of people say that I actually am a very kind and tolerant fellow, despite the impression I'm trying to make in this game, and will help other players with advice and ISK if I like them. But you won't make me waste my time with the rude, the lazy, and the stupid, who are also found in abundance in the general public. There's something else to people that should be taken into account aside from their being "good guys" and "just simple folks trying to make their living here" (no, I'm not making this up). kronlor wrote: There are grand rewards for those who can scam and steal the best, but nothing for those who play by the rules. The honest good guys i guess have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. You are seriously overestimating the rewards of scamming and piracy here. I'll hazard a guess that most EVE's undesirables who choose to screw up other players for profit don't make any more ISK than someone doing PvE, if not less. Instead, you should see the distinction between working hard and working smart. Those of the Jita dwellers spamming primitive scams in local won't earn much. They must be very lucky co catch someone new to this thing into their nets, and I doubt they'll have much to steal, anyway. The best scammers always think out of the box, they get close and personal with their victim and sometimes prepare for months before making the heist. Sounds like effort, doesn't it? Same thing with PvE: you can AFK mine in highsec all your life or slowly grind through L4 missions (one character for combat, another for salvaging ) - or you can look at more efficient ways to earn ISK: go to nullsec, do incursions, get into big market trading, etc. Heck, one Russian has even figured out how to get those L4 missions on par with incursions in terms of ISK after an in-depth analysis, and has written a massive guide about it. I guess, the reason why you think scamming is so lucrative is the five people who relentlessly spam in Jita local and make an impression that there's a lot of scamming going on. Trust me, if it really was that awesome, everyone would be doing that. Same thing with suicide ganking. It's a psychological illusion of a sort. I doubt you'll ever hear someone bragging: "Yeee, I warped to that belt and then I mined the **** out of them rocks! Then I went AFK and mined some more! It was sooooo awesome!". What is more likely to catch your eye is expensive gank killmails and stories of resounding heists. It's hard to believe that CCP even used to make villainy their selling point. Good times it must have been...
Morgan Agrivar Peace.Keepers 312	Posted - 2016.05.06 09:07:08 - [6] - Quote When I was doing highsec wardecs, my enemies have called me all sorts of names and I made sure that they paid for each jab and insult while the war raged on between our corporations. After the end of it, I would then send a detailed email to all of the members of the defeated corporation and tell them what they did right and what they did wrong. I would them explain in detail how I hunted them down and destroyed them 'coming out of nowhere', and how they could protect themselves if another corporation or alliance declared war on them. Some of them sent insulting replies followed by a block, but a couple of them took me on as an advisor to teach their newbies (and some veterans) on how to survive during a wardec. Seeing those corporations still around even after wardecs from me still thrive puts a smile on my face, and a few have told me my instructions and advice have also kept them in Eve. So I play both good cop and bad cop, depending on the situation. This would cure me of the fear...
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2481	Posted - 2016.05.06 09:24:41 - [7] - Quote Drax Kado wrote: Not been playing that long but I don't want to be a bad guy, I look forward to doing more fighting but fighting for a point, not killing new players or pods in high sec, I could be playing eve wrong and missing the fun but I don't want to do bad stuff to people for the hell of it Then don't. That's the great thing about Eve. In fact, one of the main reasons CCP allows all that bad stuff, is to cause people to band together to stop it. Without evil there can be no good. But the OP does point out the valid fact that being a "good guy" is not rewarded directly by game mechanics very much. That is because this is a sandbox game set in a dystopian future where the whole idea of who are the "good guys" is purposely nebulous. Is the Amarr Empire, and its tradition and order a force for good, or are the (formerly) enslaved, but morally imperfect Minmatar the good guys? Even outside the canonical lore, CONCORD (which is primarily just a game mechanic) is not a force for "good" but more a force for neutrality limiting capsuleer conflict, rather than fighting for good. I mean, they'll completely look away and let one large corporation full of warmongers smash a small, peaceful corp full of industrialists into dust for a mere 50M ISK! Sure, they'll stop coming to the aid of repeat offenders or thieves, but otherwise, they really make little judgement on the morality of capsuleer actions. In Eve we make our own morality and stories. We pick sides and fight for what we believe in, or perhaps for who pays us the most ISK. Often, taking advantage of another player's mistake, carelessness, weakness, or gullibility is a way to get ahead, but it isn't the only way. There are players, like say Chribba, who have parlayed their honesty and "goodness" into a space career and Chribba particularly, has earned more ISK from his "goodness" than probably all but the largest heists and scams in the game. Some of the best corps are full of loyal, and law-abiding players who work together for a common prosperity, only shooting a weapon in self-defense. But as a full-time, PvP sandbox you always have to account for your defense. It is what makes the game interesting and near unique and is part of what allow player-driven content to take place. Players will attack you for all sorts of reasons from ideology, because you have something they want, for fun, because you mutually agreed to an honourable space fight, or maybe because you insulted them, but whatever the reason, don't take it too personally as this is a PvP game. We are all fighting for the limited resources and power in New Eden and CCP has designed the game to intentionally put us at each others throats. It's a sandbox. Fight whomever you want for whatever reason you want. Or don't. It's your choice. Why Do They Gank?
Tisiphone Dira New Order Logistics CODE. 798	Posted - 2016.05.06 09:47:35 - [8] - Quote Knowing that I'm making a difference in people's lives and helping to create a better highsec is all the motivation I need to continue being a heroic good guy.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 15322	Posted - 2016.05.06 10:07:51 - [9] - Quote In my case, ISK and people being excited to see you is a reward I'm very happy with. Not to mention that my role is pretty unique makes it even better. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Tisiphone Dira New Order Logistics CODE. 798	Posted - 2016.05.06 10:09:12 - [10] - Quote If you have a monopoly on all the perks of 'being the good guy' are you still a good guy Chribba? Or just a villain with good publicity.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26144	Posted - 2016.05.06 11:02:15 - [11] - Quote Tisiphone Dira wrote: If you have a monopoly on all the perks of 'being the good guy' are you still a good guy Chribba? Or just a villain with good publicity. I reckon that he probably has a super-villain chair and is planning on purchasing an underground volcano lair with PLEX. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 15325	Posted - 2016.05.06 11:34:53 - [12] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Tisiphone Dira wrote: If you have a monopoly on all the perks of 'being the good guy' are you still a good guy Chribba? Or just a villain with good publicity. I reckon he probably has a super-villain chair and is planning on purchasing an underground volcano lair with PLEX. As long as I don't sound like that guy when streaming I recon it's a nice chair For a fellow Swede, I'm a bit embarrassed as to his childish voice-presentation... GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 1740	Posted - 2016.05.06 12:28:51 - [13] - Quote If you think Chribba is a 'good guy'....well....... Then you don't know him very well. runs off and hides in a wormhole Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1084	Posted - 2016.05.06 12:41:50 - [14] - Quote Chribba wrote: In my case, ISK and people being excited to see you is a reward I'm very happy with. Not to mention that my role is pretty unique makes it even better. /c Yeah, he is proof that the good guys do well. Also, the angel project was very much respected. They also fit some great ships for our huge ffa. Props and respect there.
Bleedingthrough 205	Posted - 2016.05.06 12:46:54 - [15] - Quote GÇ£So it makes me question what if any are the benefits to having any sort of moral compass at all in this game?GÇ¥ Groups in eve are defined by their culture GÇô their moral compass. And it is important to keep true to that culture because it is what your members expect, what gives them a purpose. Without the trust of your members, you are a nobody. We are all role-players even if they tell you otherways. Some of us have a very twisted code of conduct and what is acceptable by some groups may be a no-go for othersGÇª but we all play the role we chose for our avatars. Back to your point. Being the greatest scumbag possible also means that no one can or will trust you. At the end the trust you earned is all that matters in eve. They trust you with being a competent FC, they will follow you, they trust you with being an honorable business man, you can wield their trillions, they trust you not to blueball them, you get content. Just for reference: No, awoxing blue titans, even if they belong SC, is not something that is compatible with my moral compass. In the end it did more damaged than it helped and members made it very clear that they donGÇÖt want something like this ever to happen again, Snuffed even lost some corps over this. Same is true for awoxing corp assets. For instance, in w-space you will never find a decent group ever again if you are a known awoxer. A few hundred billion isk are simply not worth it.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 2005	Posted - 2016.05.06 12:51:22 - [16] - Quote kronlor wrote: So as everyone knows for the most part in EVE you can do w/e you want or can to get ahead. Scam, lies and piracy are all viable strategies. So it makes me question what if any are the benefits to having any sort of moral compass at all in this game? I just dont see any benefit to being allies with concord, and not being the greatest scumbag possible. There are grand rewards for those who can scam and steal the best, but nothing for those who play by the rules. The honest good guys i guess have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. NOTE: no i was not scammed, cheated or blown up in anyway in the creation of this post, just something i thought about sitting in jita There are plenty of rewards for folks that play by the rules. You just have to understand the rules and play by them. A few examples: LS Voltron (whatever you guys call yourselves). A loose coalition of low sex pirate groups. Goons get bored and come and kick over the moon mining ops of a few groups. Any single group would be insignificant compared to the vast Emperium... well whatever they were/had. Many of the LS groups positively hate each other and have been fighting (not gf stuff.... angry stuffs) for quite some time. All that being true, they all followed an ethos that bound them. So, push came to shove and a bunch of guys (again many of which don't like each other) who followed the same set of rules (their rules, not CONCORDs) put aside differences and wonked the crap out of the Emperium on their terms. Their reward for being true to their way of playing eve was to get a place in eve history. They also got a lot of street cred. They play the game right and the play it well AND folks have to acknowledge that. Did they get isk out of it.... maybe, but the real GRAND REWARD for all that is they get the bragging rights forever. "Yeah, I did that!" Which is pretty cool. My personal example - on a much smaller and personal scale. We're a small WH corp and we just got burned out of our WH by a much a much larger group. 9 real dudes w/ a bunch of alts VS a 200+ member corp (and their friends who rolled into the system and helped them). I'll start wit - no regrets or hard feelings. We had a blast and are slowly recovering! Now to the relevant details. I think I've played the game well enough to have some friends I could count on if the chips were down. Come to find out I do. 2 other small WH corps and a few misc friends came to our aid. No the mega batphone crap that is poisoning wh space, but a small crew of guys dedicated to pvp. They came in interceptors for the most part and we (my corp) pretty much just jetted the contents of our sma and said 'go for it'. We had 2 or 3 days of epic combat and I think the guys that burned us out were both surprised at the amount of defense, the skill and the ferocity. I think as a show of respect, they did allow us to evac some stuff once we were out of time on POS timers. My point? I've played the game in a way I consider 'right' (whatever that is) and when I was in a tough spot - I got my payback - in a huge way. I didn't get isk or LP - I got just enough space bros to yolo into my wh and do much more than most thought we could. I consider it a huge reward for how I've conducted my eve life and have many debts to repay. Even though we lost billions on the corp level, on a personal level - OP Success. If you want isk - run some missions, gank, scam or whatever. If you want to WIN EVE, play it right (that's yours to define).
Jovian Angel Jovian Vengeance 8	Posted - 2016.05.06 12:53:33 - [17] - Quote my chars are a bit Yin and Yang Over the years I have helped a lot of people out and given isk or fitted ships and advise. On the other hand some of my chars are just dam right evil and like blowing stuff up. So im either classed as a good guy or just a plain daft fruit bat
Revis Owen The Conference Elite CODE. 309	Posted - 2016.05.06 16:45:18 - [18] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: I made a friend by just simply talking to a dude and showing him a few basic ropes. After blowing his ship up? According to carebears, that causes people to unsub. So you must be lying. But we know it is the carebear who lies. James 315 tells us so. And CCP proved James 315 right with their stats on post-gank newbro retention. Praise James! Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Saeger1737 Bite the pillow Archetype. 1511	Posted - 2016.05.06 17:03:29 - [19] - Quote Every new bro I kill I talk to, try giving them fits or giving them more of an extended direction to play the game better. Now maybe I'm giving them a fit for a better fight next time but the ******* in me will only let me be nice for so long. MERC WITH A MOUTH
Bing Bangboom DAMAG Safety Commission 468	Posted - 2016.05.06 17:37:38 - [20] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: LS Voltron (whatever you guys call yourselves). A loose coalition of low sex pirate groups. As one of the good guys I can tell you its quite rewarding to battle the people who steal ore and ice, make death threats in local and email and generally make a habit of botting and bot like activities. They harm the game, harm other players and yes, even harm themselves. Saving them from their terrible behavior isn't profitable in terms of ISK but it gives me such a warm feeling of satisfaction that it acts like a mild aphrodisiac. I recommend it to any low sex pirates. Just don't expect anyone to join you with advertising like that. Highsec is worth fighting for. By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
Tengu Grib Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 1496	Posted - 2016.05.06 18:36:02 - [21] - Quote Morality in Eve is a lot more subjective than it is in the real world. The difference between hero and villain is as well. You don't have to be a ganker, scammer, or corp thief to be a bad person in game. Nor do you those things make you a bad person, necessarily. What makes Eve great though is that the play style is available to those who wish it. And while you're right, the game mechanics themselves do not reward you for good behaviour, you're missing the fact that the social aspect of the game does. Chribba is living proof that being honest and reliable can be more profitable than being crooked, he's made a career in Eve out of his honesty and reliability. The difference though, is that in order for your 'goodness' to become beneficial, you have to be REALLY good. You need to be doing something so honest, and so dependably, that you become famous for it. I know plenty of honest people in this game who I would trust with various things, and I can tell you a good few of them are 'bad guys'. But they aren't famous for being trustworthy or honest, so they do not profit from it. Also I agree with some of the previous posts that being crooked doesn't pay nearly as well as you make it sound like it does. I make ISK through legitimate, illegitimate, and grey-area means, and I can honestly say most of my isk has been made legitimately. The illegitimate is done more for the entertainment value it provides. Another thing to keep in mind is that many of us criminals work for a particular allegiance. That might be an alliance, a coalition, an ideal, or something else. For many of us, anyone outside that allegiance is a fair target for whatever nefarious deeds we desire, but anyone sharing our allegiance is off limits. If I join a corp with the intent of awoxing them or stealing from them, they were my enemies (for whatever reason catches my eye) before they even knew I was interested in joining. They were never my friends, never my allies, and so I haven't betrayed anyone from my perspective, I've attacked my enemies. People I consider to be my allies on the other hand, have nothing to fear from me (except maybe the occasional friendly podding when I know they aren't flying expensive implants). I've extorted a corp for 300 mill isk, I've blown my cover and awoxed a Myrmidon (god was a bored that day). On the other side, I've helped a friend evac his assets from null by piloting his rorqual for him and jumping billions and billions of his assets safely out without stealing a dime. One mans villain is another mans hero. TL;DR You absolutely CAN get rich by being honest and trustworthy, but it's just as hard and takes just as much time and effort as getting rich by being dishonest and villainous. You are correct, the mechanics of the game do not reward you for being honest. Which is what makes it so special when someone IS honest. Being a hero in a game that makes it easier to be a villain, is in itself a great accomplishment. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 1496	Posted - 2016.05.06 19:32:19 - [22] - Quote Oh, also, slightly off topic but relevant: One of the most satisfying things in Eve is being kind and generous when it's least expected. This can be seen in giving friendly advice to someone you just killed in combat (regardless of the circumstances). It can be giving a gf and a congrats for a trap well laid in local just before you explode. Or sending a mail to the guy you narrowly escaped from. Eve is a dark and violent place, deliberately so. It doesn't take much light to stand out against the darkness, even when you're a part of the darkness. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
John E Normus New Order Logistics CODE. 799	Posted - 2016.05.06 21:33:20 - [23] - Quote Let me just drop a warning, being the "good" guy can be very draining. Most of the time it's a lonely, thankless task. And just to use CODE as an example, there are maybe 30ish dudes with any kind of activity level over the course of a month. That's 30ish guys to beat back the darkness that is the your typical isk-grubbing highsec resident. Thankfully, our fire burns bright! Space paladin best paladin Between Ignorance and Wisdom
eddie valvetino Snuff Box Snuffed Out 174	Posted - 2016.05.07 10:07:09 - [24] - Quote kronlor wrote: NOTE: no i was not scammed, cheated or blown up in anyway in the creation of this post, just something i thought about sitting in jita FYI That is the point, there are no rules
Calivess Avada Nightlight Manufacturing 9	Posted - 2016.05.15 12:08:30 - [25] - Quote They say EVE is a "sandbox". So, let's play with the sandbox analogy. You're sitting in a sandbox, with a bunch of teens with raging inferiority complexes, all hopped up on Mt Dew. When you opt to be the "good guy", you're basically deciding to stay away from the pack of a-holes running around kicking over other peoples' sand castles. It's lonely at first. But, every once in a blue moon, you see another kid walk away from the a-holes and hang out over in the section of the sandbox where you are. Slowly, over time, you end up building a very small (albeit trustworthy, altruistic, and friendly) group of friends who play together for everyone's mutual benefit. I'm personally not interested in scams, deception, cruelty, or even violence (I try to avoid combat whenever possible). And I can tell you from experience that, while the community of "good guys" is extraordinarily small compared to the a-holes, the people I play with are some of the most fantastic people I've met in-game. Smiles, laughter, excitement, adventure... and all without ripping someone off, or killing someone who wandered into the area where we happen to be. They say EVE is a sandbox. If that's the case, then I guess the reward for being a "good guy" is finding a group of like-minded individuals who will enhance the gameplay for you and everyone around you. *"Great job shooting things that cant shoot back. You're a regular scourge of New Eden"* -Lament von Gankenheim from CODE. in response to someone destroying their POCOs.
Mark Hamill Galactic Waste Management 15	Posted - 2016.05.15 14:00:37 - [26] - Quote The answer to your question has been debated by philosophers since the time of Plato. Taking your very materialistic point of view, if your goal is simply the acquisition of stuff without regard of consequence... by all means, be a bad guy. Because the rewards for being a good guy can't been seen in your wallet balance, or in the ship you fly. Good guys are rewarded on the inside with words like trust, honor, dignity and self-respect. That and the ability to sleep at night without nightmares of being swarmed by angry miners in their laser armed barges seeking vengeance. I sleep peacefully at night and that in itself, is reward enough.
Wyk Bathana Trois Etoiles The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2016.05.15 14:46:01 - [27] - Quote i would add that, from a philosophical point of view, you should not search for any direct reward for being "a good guy", since this would imply that your motivation is selfish (and not good). Do you help an old woman in the street to carry heavy things because you are waiting for a 1 euro/dollar coin? or do you help her because it is a good thing that should be done? Do we act honestly because we think it's a good thing per se? or because we are afraid to be caught and punished (parents/police depending on your age) if we don't? Do you think we should act honestly and cooperate with corpmates because we can earn more isks doing that? or because that's the way we should behave, as human beings? Would you do heroic things in real life because you would want to get respect and love from other people for that (if you survuve...) or would you do the same thing even if nobody is there to see you doing that and dying. From my point of view, cooperation/trust/etc... in a mmo allows me to develop solid relations with some other players, whom i will early talk on teamspeak/mumble about real life, work problems, love affairs, sport, politics etc... And we help each other without expecting to get any isk for that... And i feel fine acting like that, even if there is no reward (isk) from eve for that Wyk
Nitshe Razvedka 778	Posted - 2016.05.16 06:01:36 - [28] - Quote John E Normus wrote: Let me just drop a warning, being the "good" guy can be very draining. Most of the time it's a lonely, thankless task. And just to use CODE as an example, there are maybe 30ish dudes with any kind of activity level over the course of a month. That's 30ish guys to beat back the darkness that is the your typical isk-grubbing highsec resident. Thankfully, our fire burns bright! Space paladin best paladin New Jovian Tech has arrivedClick and listen to the Code rhetoric again. Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 4251	Posted - 2016.05.16 06:18:34 - [29] - Quote If you think getting rich is the reason why you should do the right thing then honestly you should probably lock yourself in a shack in the middle of the desert and never talk to another human being or interact with society in any way ever again. You'll be doing us all a favor.
Nitshe Razvedka 780	Posted - 2016.05.16 06:35:18 - [30] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: If you think getting rich is the reason why you should do the right thing then honestly you should probably lock yourself in a shack in the middle of the desert and never talk to another human being or interact with society in any way ever again. You'll be doing us all a favor. New Jovian Tech has arrivedClick and listen to the Vimsy rhetoric again. Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 4252	Posted - 2016.05.16 06:47:47 - [31] - Quote That's fine so long as I get to be Jamelia.
Nitshe Razvedka 780	Posted - 2016.05.16 08:15:44 - [32] - Quote Bing Bangboom wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: LS Voltron (whatever you guys call yourselves). A loose coalition of low sex pirate groups. As one of the good guys I can tell you its quite rewarding to battle the people who steal ore and ice, make death threats in local and email and generally make a habit of botting and bot like activities. They harm the game, harm other players and yes, even harm themselves. Saving them from their terrible behavior isn't profitable in terms of ISK but it gives me such a warm feeling of satisfaction that it acts like a mild aphrodisiac. I recommend it to any low sex pirates. Just don't expect anyone to join you with advertising like that. New Jovian Tech has arrivedClick and listen to the Bing rhetoric again. Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2863	Posted - 2016.05.16 08:55:08 - [33] - Quote im a pirate and will shoot and pod anything not blue to me and basically be a ** in local and will quite happily jump into highsec and gank something just for a laugh, however people still trust me with isk when it comes to doing my job, even people i dont even know and its pretty satisfying to know you are a pretty trusted person within a game where nobody trusts anyone. I seen a venture autopiloting through lowsec by a newbie the other day, i shoot it and i pod him back home, ill sent him some isk with a note "dont autopilot thx". Ill honor my word whatever the situation, does that make me a good guy? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy -** Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 170	Posted - 2016.05.16 10:46:05 - [34] - Quote The best ship in EVE is the friend ship. That's something you can't buy with ISK. A signature :o
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2478	Posted - 2016.05.17 22:04:40 - [35] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: im a pirate and will shoot and pod anything not blue to me and basically be a **** in local and will quite happily jump into highsec and gank something just for a laugh <3 <3 <3 the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2478	Posted - 2016.05.17 22:08:04 - [36] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: The best ship in EVE is the friend ship. That's something you can't buy with ISK. A good advice for Nitshe who at one time was convinced he will end us by throwing money at his merc "friends" the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Nitshe Razvedka 801	Posted - 2016.05.17 23:32:34 - [37] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: The best ship in EVE is the friend ship. That's something you can't buy with ISK. A good advice for Nitshe who at one time was convinced he will end us by throwing money at his merc "friends" Didn't I say that was only the foreplay. Now you're all hot n bothered. Waiting for me to ......... Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7693	Posted - 2016.05.18 06:30:27 - [38] - Quote Good guy is a rather strange definition in this game. I have seen "bad guys" do good, and people who thought they were good do bad. There have been players who thought they had to do bad things because the game required it, but in that mindset, never lost the idea that it's a game and would still end up being altruistic towards new players. And not all that glitters is gold. There is some idea that AG are a bunch of Trilbie-wearing white knights (the actual hats a white knight wears is a Trilbie, not a Fedora - know your internet phenotypes) but this is not the case. A good lot of them simply find the tears of gankers to be a lot sweeter and even with the game mechanics stacked against them, it's just that much more nourishing. I have known lowsec pirates reimburse ships just for the asking so long as you would give some consideration for their advice. The way the game is set up, the rules of engagement just about require murder. If you don't kill that T1 frigate in your nullsec pocket, that might be the cyno ship. Are they being evil? Are you? Doubt it. And does anybody do a low/null roam with say Spectre Fleet out of pure malice? I have been in some of those fleets and have yet to see malice. Beyond that we have all seen that the player base can be charitable when the situation calls for it. So while it would be nice to have a clear black hat versus white hat thing going on, and there are players who exhibit a little too much Ego and/or Id into things (chances are they do this with everything), it's simply not going to happen. We're all Chaotic Neutral. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2881	Posted - 2016.05.18 06:35:50 - [39] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: The best ship in EVE is the friend ship. That's something you can't buy with ISK. A good advice for Nitshe who at one time was convinced he will end us by throwing money at his merc "friends" you always have a home in fetid poppet FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Sylphy TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium 81	Posted - 2016.05.18 07:44:23 - [40] - Quote Perspective and personal (deluded) reasoning. Two main drives for being the good guy. You can find good guys everywhere. Even here in the previous posts and even if they themselves don't realize it. The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 4270	Posted - 2016.05.18 07:56:43 - [41] - Quote I am always a paragon of justice and fairness in everything I do.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 314	Posted - 2016.05.18 08:38:25 - [42] - Quote So... what exactly is a good guy? "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Sasha Nemtsov Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 109	Posted - 2016.05.18 08:46:57 - [43] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: The best ship in EVE is the friend ship. That's something you can't buy with ISK. Surely, the best ship is HARDship? It is a more reliable companion in Life and in EVE, for it never lies or cheats and its benefits are universally available - if you have the temperament and ability to profit from them.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 4271	Posted - 2016.05.18 09:15:27 - [44] - Quote But without your friendship for reps, how will you be able to tank the DPS of the hardship long enough to extract the ransom.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 314	Posted - 2016.05.18 09:28:47 - [45] - Quote Sasha Nemtsov wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: The best ship in EVE is the friend ship. That's something you can't buy with ISK. Surely, the best ship is HARDship? It is a more reliable companion in Life and in EVE, for it never lies or cheats and its benefits are universally available - if you have the temperament and ability to profit from them. So can we have all your stuffz so that you can enjoy hardship properly? "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7698	Posted - 2016.05.18 18:25:23 - [46] - Quote So last night I helped a freighter through the gank pipeline. With a ganking alt. I'll leave it up to you people to figure out what I mean by "help". You see why I like this game so much. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sasha Nemtsov Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 109	Posted - 2016.05.18 19:27:46 - [47] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: But without your friendship for reps, how will you be able to tank the DPS of the hardship long enough to extract the ransom. Er..... HARD 2nd a/c Repper/Booster/Links
Sasha Nemtsov Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 109	Posted - 2016.05.18 19:29:39 - [48] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Sasha Nemtsov wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: The best ship in EVE is the friend ship. That's something you can't buy with ISK. Surely, the best ship is HARDship? It is a more reliable companion in Life and in EVE, for it never lies or cheats and its benefits are universally available - if you have the temperament and ability to profit from them. So can we have all your stuffz so that you can enjoy hardship properly? I'm a true HARD player, Sir; I don't have 'stuffz'
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 4284	Posted - 2016.05.18 19:35:02 - [49] - Quote Sasha Nemtsov wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: But without your friendship for reps, how will you be able to tank the DPS of the hardship long enough to extract the ransom. Er..... HARD 2nd a/c Repper/Booster/Links mine sounded like 800% better
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 308	Posted - 2016.05.20 08:39:06 - [50] - Quote If I prevent you from doing evil deeds by applying disproportionate amounts of ECM, thereby saving the lives of friends who came through the cyno alongside me... does that not truly make me the best buddy you ever had?
Sylphy TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium 81	Posted - 2016.05.20 12:26:21 - [51] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: So... what exactly is a good guy? Something Janitors in space stations clean off of ship hulls. The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
Sykaotic Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 110	Posted - 2016.05.23 07:11:10 - [52] - Quote be good to be bad...
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1150	Posted - 2016.05.23 09:21:08 - [53] - Quote maybe because some peoples good nature doesnt allow them to be total scumbags to other players and doesnt make them forget that other players are humans with feelings too. Just a thought. "Nothing to win" isnt quite true too, blowing up "scumbags" can be very satisfying, I imagine.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 323	Posted - 2016.05.23 21:30:00 - [54] - Quote Sylphy wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: So... what exactly is a good guy? Something Janitors in space stations clean off of ship hulls. Then there are plenty of good guys in eve. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Tengu Grib Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 1516	Posted - 2016.06.01 18:50:36 - [55] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: I am always a paragon of justice and fairness in everything I do. Confirming. Rabble Rabble Rabble Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Drammie Askold Saints Of Havoc I N G L O R I O U S 38	Posted - 2016.06.05 16:53:43 - [56] - Quote What the ** is a 'moral compass'? What slot does it fit in and what's the CPU requirements? What New Eden needed was Wise Immortal Philosopher Kings. What New Eden got** was Sociopathic Immortal poo-flinging monkeys . . . vOv
Thomas en Chasteaux Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2016.06.17 12:41:01 - [57] - Quote kronlor wrote: So it makes me question what if any are the benefits to having any sort of moral compass at all in this game? I just dont see any benefit to being allies with concord, and not being the greatest scumbag possible. There are grand rewards for those who can scam and steal the best, but nothing for those who play by the rules. The honest good guys i guess have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. If all that you value in space life, is the pile of ISK you have accumulated, and a throne of corpses surrounded by pixels trophies... Then of course, you would see nothing of value in being guided by a moral compass. Nor would you recognize any value or any reward for saving someone's clone butt in a time of hopelessness and need. If ISK is your only measure of self-worth, then you are simply a mercenary - a soldier of fortune - whose mark on the timeline of New Eden will be small and temporary. For you will have built nothing that lasted, changed nothing that mattered, inpsired no one to do anything greater. For those who are guided by better angels, seek out the Signal Cartel or the High Sec Militia.
Crinnfika Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2016.06.17 20:01:34 - [58] - Quote In the real world being the "good guy" (aka not screwing people over) leads to having good social connections that you can count on in times of need, which generally leads to a higher quality of life and a safer and more stable environment for you and your family to live in. Civilization was born when humans realized that 2 people working together have more food than 2 people working against each other with the benefits increasing with the more people you had working together. However in a videogame like eve it's hard to replicate that. In eve things like not starving to death and raising a family are not concerns, and fear of death is less of a thing since dying is only a inconvenience rather than the end of a person's existence. The other thing is that in gaming violence is often the form of entertainment, whereas in real life violence is painful and really sucky.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 332	Posted - 2016.06.17 21:16:56 - [59] - Quote Crinnfika wrote: In the real world being the "good guy" (aka not screwing people over) leads to having good social connections that you can count on in times of need, which generally leads to a higher quality of life and a safer and more stable environment for you and your family to live in. Counting on people in times of need ... Quality of life ... safe and stable environment ... where do you live?? It is my experience EvE is a lot (and I mean a LOT) more forgiving than real life in terms of for example tax rates, the harm inflicted by a perfectly executed awox or scam, the general tolerance of the playerbase... In the utopia that is New Eden however, your argument stands.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 1	Posted - 2016.06.18 02:19:21 - [60] - Quote Anybody who requires rewards to be good is actually a mercenary. Be a good guy (whatever that means in practice) because you want to - or don't.
Sitting Bull Lakota Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 82	Posted - 2016.06.18 04:11:25 - [61] - Quote I might argue that it is, in fact, the "bad guys" who are truly good in EvE. Without them there would be unregulated inflation from the glut of isk and materials constantly being generated. Our newbro friends would find their own modest acquisitions stripped of all value by the mindless hordes of missionbears, anombears, and minerbears burning hours upon hours of time wrecking the economy! If not for the valiant efforts of mercs, wardeccers, and suicide gankers, all the nutrients would be gone from the soil preventing new life from blossoming! The "bad" guys are the gardeners of EvE. Want to be good? Be bad.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2563	Posted - 2016.06.18 07:23:29 - [62] - Quote Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: I might argue that it is, in fact, the "bad guys" who are truly good in EvE. Without them there would be unregulated inflation from the glut of isk and materials constantly being generated. Our newbro friends would find their own modest acquisitions stripped of all value by the mindless hordes of missionbears, anombears, and minerbears burning hours upon hours of time wrecking the economy! If not for the valiant efforts of mercs, wardeccers, and suicide gankers, all the nutrients would be gone from the soil preventing new life from blossoming! The "bad" guys are the gardeners of EvE. Want to be good? Be bad. So very true. The very satisfaction these carebears and industrialist get from gathering and building stuff directly flows from the fact that "content generators"' create demand by using and exploding goods in New Eden. If ships could never be lost without the permission of the owner or respawned or something, none of this work would have value. No one would buy your stuff removing any meaning of what to be honest, is mechanically uninteresting work. Competitive PvP games only work if someone takes the initiative to attack. If everyone just sits around and builds all the time, nothing will happen and the game will stagnate and die. So next time you see your friendly neighborhood highsec aggressor, give them a friendly wave and thank them for their service to keeping one of the most compelling elements to this game, the player-driven economy, moving. They are indeed in a sense, good guys. Why Do They Gank?
hellyeaz Systems High Guard Tactical Narcotics Team 21	Posted - 2016.06.18 07:30:34 - [63] - Quote kronlor wrote: but nothing for those who play by the rules. What rules? You can't look at EvE like that, if you play by some "moral compass" you've already given the upper hand to someone else. EvE is a survival game. Do whatever it takes to survive and don't try to apply RL morality to a game. RL morality is for RL. Murder, mayhem, destruction, scamming, awoxing: these are for EvE. The problem you will have is that others will be unable to seperate RL from EvE. Ignore them and stay the course, they will probably quit anyway. Enjoy EvE for it's lack of rules!
Lanna Kjyshy TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium 0	Posted - 2016.06.20 09:00:34 - [64] - Quote There's no "good" or "bad" in HighSec. All are equally contributing to the stagnation of the game.
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 385	Posted - 2016.06.20 10:42:21 - [65] - Quote Lanna Kjyshy wrote: There's no "good" or "bad" in HighSec. All are equally contributing to the stagnation of the game. Well, that makes everyone in HS bad. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 336	Posted - 2016.06.20 11:16:26 - [66] - Quote Here's another reason to be "The Good Guy" : bad guys can't undock anything larger than a destroyer in space they (supposedly) own , whereas good guys get to fly really cool ships and shiny mods
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:46:41 - [67] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Here's another reason to be "The Good Guy" : bad guys can't undock anything larger than a destroyer in space they (supposedly) own , whereas good guys get to fly really cool ships and shiny mods You know....I don't mine, I don't do anything that puts me in a position to get ganked....I had always kind of considered CODE to be something of a non-entity in EVE. They don't impact my life in any way really - so I thought all their talk was just Role Playing/exaggeration... But I keep seeing people like you who take a thread about all of the "bad" people in EVE....and immediately jump to only talking about CODE... Not just here, but all over the forums....And even in-game. People can't even insult each other in local (in high sec) without accusing the other person of being "CODE" anymore, regardless of relevance to their particular grievance... So I am forced to revise my opinion.... Apparently CODE really are making a huge impact on high-sec. They clearly dominate the thoughts of, if not the majority of carebears, at least a very significant percentage of them... They are more talked about than the rest of the "bad" guys combined... So I guess they've won. They really have taken over high sec in the minds of a surprisingly large percentage of players like you. Yet another example of how being the "Bad Guy" pays off I guess... (not to mention all the billions/trillions of isk they are raking in)
Xolve Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2577	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:56:23 - [68] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Well, that makes everyone in HS bad. Well, they are. So...
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 336	Posted - 2016.06.21 00:09:56 - [69] - Quote Agreed, they're well known. But there's a bit of a backstory to this one. See, one day our leadership received a complaint from CODE that this "Brokk Witgenstein" fellow must be purged from corp asap or hell would follow (hurrrrfblurrf $@#%^). Came out of the blue, since I hadn't even been in highsec for ... umm ... a little over a year, year and a half maybe. I can't be certain, but I assume this has to do with forumposting; mostly due to me trying to understand what drives them. Up until then, I was merely curious what the fuzz was all about -- and I did indeed find the answer I was looking for. There are other cases where I'm lurking around the forums for answers, ranging from hubcamping to the nullbear vs hunter phenomenon; but me asking questions had never rubbed anyone the wrong way before. Now, I'd already pieced the puzzle together when their LOLdec hit the mailbox. (we cordially invited them to take their wardec to our home system in Curse -- needless to say said wardec never came). But ever since I take a particular delight in playing along with the role play. It's a "when in Provi, fly NRDS, when in highsec laugh at CODE" kind of thing. They appreciate this -- they really do. Being talked about, visibility, is what makes the whole thing work and I do like a bit of roleplaying myself. Consider it a winkeye to our highsec "baddies".
Yang Aurilen The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1275	Posted - 2016.06.21 00:24:27 - [70] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Here's another reason to be "The Good Guy" : bad guys can't undock anything larger than a destroyer in space they (supposedly) own , whereas good guys get to fly really cool ships and shiny mods https://zkillboard.com/detail/37258120/ Shiny mods you say? Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2617	Posted - 2016.06.21 05:54:37 - [71] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: So I am forced to revise my opinion.... Apparently CODE really are making a huge impact on high-sec. They clearly dominate the thoughts of, if not the majority of carebears, at least a very significant percentage of them... That is very easy. A lot of players dwell in highsec and opt out of every possible risk they can. They are in NPC corps or leave corp as soon as a dec comes in. CCP removed every other option to interact with this people. We are the only people they HAVE to interact with if we bump or suicide gank them. Their sandbox is pretty empty except for us and that is why we get so much focus from them. Everyone else just ignores them and does not mind that there is a significant branch of people who only interact with the sandbox by selling resources which they mine without risk. They don't get that this is completely unbalanced and destroys a lot of other possibilities for good conflicts in other parts of the game. We do, and that is why we are here doing our job... ...to make Highsec great again! the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Sykes Makar EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.06.21 09:54:12 - [72] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: So I am forced to revise my opinion.... Apparently CODE really are making a huge impact on high-sec. They clearly dominate the thoughts of, if not the majority of carebears, at least a very significant percentage of them... That is very easy. A lot of players dwell in highsec and opt out of every possible risk they can. They are in NPC corps or leave corp as soon as a dec comes in. CCP removed every other option to interact with this people. We are the only people they HAVE to interact with if we bump or suicide gank them. Their sandbox is pretty empty except for us and that is why we get so much focus from them. Everyone else just ignores them and does not mind that there is a significant branch of people who only interact with the sandbox by selling resources which they mine without risk. They don't get that this is completely unbalanced and destroys a lot of other possibilities for good conflicts in other parts of the game. We do, and that is why we are here doing our job... ...to make Highsec great again! If CCP lets them be safe in those NPC corps, then I'd argue that they had this in mind and consider it 'balanced', given that they brought out Crimewatch 2.0 and buffed mining ships. And now with Daily Opportunities and the Serpentis Event coming up, WoW in Space will be even more present than ever before, all while being in their cuddly NPC corps. And I do not think you guys create 'good conflicts' in the first place when you do things like that. It generates exactly the problem guy are talking about.
Sykes Makar EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.06.21 09:56:09 - [73] - Quote Sykes Makar wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: So I am forced to revise my opinion.... Apparently CODE really are making a huge impact on high-sec. They clearly dominate the thoughts of, if not the majority of carebears, at least a very significant percentage of them... That is very easy. A lot of players dwell in highsec and opt out of every possible risk they can. They are in NPC corps or leave corp as soon as a dec comes in. CCP removed every other option to interact with this people. We are the only people they HAVE to interact with if we bump or suicide gank them. Their sandbox is pretty empty except for us and that is why we get so much focus from them. Everyone else just ignores them and does not mind that there is a significant branch of people who only interact with the sandbox by selling resources which they mine without risk. They don't get that this is completely unbalanced and destroys a lot of other possibilities for good conflicts in other parts of the game. We do, and that is why we are here doing our job... ...to make Highsec great again! If CCP lets them be safe in those NPC corps while being in Hi-Sec, then I'd argue that they had this in mind and consider it 'balanced', given that they brought out Crimewatch 2.0 and buffed mining ships to underline this. And now with Daily Opportunities and the Serpentis Event coming up, WoW in Space will be even more present than ever before, all while being in their cuddly NPC corps. And I do not think you guys create 'good conflicts' in the first place when you do things like that. It generates exactly the problem guy are talking about.
Lt Mando tripleTDOT 3	Posted - 2016.06.21 17:45:14 - [74] - Quote The thing is if you are a "good guy" you wouldn't be doing it to seek a reward. So it shouldn't matter I would think .
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 56	Posted - 2016.06.21 17:52:28 - [75] - Quote Sykes Makar wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: So I am forced to revise my opinion.... Apparently CODE really are making a huge impact on high-sec. They clearly dominate the thoughts of, if not the majority of carebears, at least a very significant percentage of them... That is very easy. A lot of players dwell in highsec and opt out of every possible risk they can. They are in NPC corps or leave corp as soon as a dec comes in. CCP removed every other option to interact with this people. We are the only people they HAVE to interact with if we bump or suicide gank them. Their sandbox is pretty empty except for us and that is why we get so much focus from them. Everyone else just ignores them and does not mind that there is a significant branch of people who only interact with the sandbox by selling resources which they mine without risk. They don't get that this is completely unbalanced and destroys a lot of other possibilities for good conflicts in other parts of the game. We do, and that is why we are here doing our job... ...to make Highsec great again! If CCP lets them be safe in those NPC corps, then I'd argue that they had this in mind and consider it 'balanced', given that they brought out Crimewatch 2.0 for Hi-Sec and buffed mining ships. And now with Daily Opportunities and the Serpentis Event coming up, WoW in Space will be even more present than ever before, all while being in their cuddly NPC corps. CCP's perception of reality has been....unique....for several years now.... So I wouldn't use them as your basis for what is right/wrong.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 2164	Posted - 2016.06.23 11:43:23 - [76] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Here's another reason to be "The Good Guy" : bad guys can't undock anything larger than a destroyer in space they (supposedly) own , whereas good guys get to fly really cool ships and shiny mods You know....I don't mine, I don't do anything that puts me in a position to get ganked....I had always kind of considered CODE to be something of a non-entity in EVE. They don't impact my life in any way really - so I thought all their talk was just Role Playing/exaggeration... But I keep seeing people like you who take a thread about all of the "bad" people in EVE....and immediately jump to only talking about CODE... Not just here, but all over the forums....And even in-game. People can't even insult each other in local (in high sec) without accusing the other person of being "CODE" anymore, regardless of relevance to their particular grievance... So I am forced to revise my opinion.... Apparently CODE really are making a huge impact on high-sec. They clearly dominate the thoughts of, if not the majority of carebears, at least a very significant percentage of them... They are more talked about than the rest of the "bad" guys combined... So I guess they've won. They really have taken over high sec in the minds of a surprisingly large percentage of players like you. Yet another example of how being the "Bad Guy" pays off I guess... (not to mention all the billions/trillions of isk they are raking in) It jumps to being about code because there are a few code cool aid drinkers that pretty much live on the forum. Folks like you that ignore them are literally (they get week and pass out) starving them of the role playing attention they crave. In many cases it isn't the boo hoo that makes it all about code - it's code role players that make it all about code. It's their attempt to maintain their imagined relevance - a lot of work to be sure. Fear not though, code is on the way out. Their leadership has become bored of their role playing creation (OR can't be arsed to put in the effort it now takes to actually play the game - vice answering macherial pings) and have moved on. There are but a few folks trying to keep the rotting husk alive. They will eventually move on or leave the game.
Tao Dolcino Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 443	Posted - 2016.06.23 11:51:32 - [77] - Quote Crinnfika wrote: In the real world being the "good guy" (aka not screwing people over) leads to having good social connections that you can count on in times of need, which generally leads to a higher quality of life and a safer and more stable environment for you and your family to live in. Civilization was born when humans realized that 2 people working together have more food than 2 people working against each other with the benefits increasing with the more people you had working together. On which planet ? Here on earth, being the good guy means you won't be recognized by the system. Look at the people at the top of our modern occidental society : they are the worst bandits the earth has ever seen. I am trying my very best to be a good guy, and i know that i will never be rewarded by the system for it, and i am proud of it. Trying to be good in the hope of being rewarded by bandits is not trying to be good. They can put their dirty money and pathetic "social position" where you know. If you climb in the hierarchy of this corrupted system, you are certainly not as good as you believe. To climb, you have to walk on other people. Of course, it's very possible that you don't even see it if you keep your eyes closed. CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
Kaivarian Coste Beyond Imports and Exports 57	Posted - 2016.07.02 12:45:08 - [78] - Quote If you're not killing anyone in Eve, you're technically a "good guy". I find that avoiding PVP is very healthy for the wallet.
Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 1807	Posted - 2016.07.03 05:32:43 - [79] - Quote Tao Dolcino wrote: moronic racist **** Because the Glorious Peoples Republic's of China, Vietnam, North Korea, and others don't have their own vicious greedy bastards. And 'rising to the top' in those societies means doing so on a pile of dead bodies. Apparently the Uni's standards for enrollment are dropping........ Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
DoingUntoOthers Three Inch Wonders Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2016.07.05 00:10:09 - [80] - Quote In a sandbox, those with the power to shape and mold the most sand have the most influence.... but to answer your question, what is a "good guy?" Against immortals who can neither die nor be rendered helpless as isk is always attainable.... moral grey area is the epitome of such an existence after all. Let me assume here, good guy being kind, trustworthy, and more or less a pacifist or on a stretch (like star wars) an enforcer of the "weak" against aggressors. Not a good guy as in "hey i tell jokes in local", but a true hero kind of thing. Theorize that with me! Is there value...? There is indeed value in that! But you will have a rough road. You will have to get wealth, numbers, and influence to compete with an extreme vast majority of the eve community who's thoughts consist of "muh frigate shud be op ur a carebear die gimme ur isk lol tears". There are multiple difficulties with this: this is a MAJORITY, meaning even ccp's doctrines and changes will be influenced towards them, the entire game is structured around them, a white knight standing up against such a tide would not only be tedious.... but damn near impossible (especially finding allies who would agree with you and abide by whatever your white knight requirements and regulations will be) The more you succeed, the more enemies will come to kill your carebear ass. Assume you start building up successfully, slaying rats, honest trading etc, and you get funds and friends who band together... you can start waging wars on the "assholes of eve" (You wouldn't have a choice, they'd come *to you*) ... you would become public enemy number one. The guy who talks like a prophet from code would circumvent his ban to come and call you a blasphemer/noob/carebeargod, pandemic legion would keep titans in every system your corp logged off in outside of hisec, goons would swarm frigates to everything you fly... it goes on, and you would have to fight. Period. For justice/bravery/whatever bloody moral compass you wish to enforce, or you would be destroyed, left with nothing. Again, the option is to fight, or die. If you choose to let them kill you and your friends, that would be the end of it, you left broke and powerless and your friends gone or just sitting in station forever to chat with you. If you chose to fight, well you would have to contend with the "majority"... including ccp's changes that keep their power in place... their trillions of isk and hundreds of trillions of assets, and all of that within your moral compass realm. IF you somehow succeed, you would be hired by every industrial group ingame to work with or protect them, you would bring a consequence for "gankers" who only fight one sided battles you would overthrow the bloodthirsty lords of nullsec and their endless droves of followers........... Then you would be the bad guy. Enforcing your own "meta" and killing those who disagree with you, thousands upon thousands would quit realizing they weren't able to invincibly play their way, markets would shift, sovereignty would expand.... That is a sandbox, and what it means to win. Justice, right, wrong... good/bad guy? This doesn't apply in a sandbox. Play your way, and get enough power to justify doing so without your sand being taken or knocked down. To contend with the majority is to be stronger or smarter than the majority, limitless power and wealth would come if you were successful, you could shape the sand however you will..... just as the top already has.
Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 1809	Posted - 2016.07.05 03:07:31 - [81] - Quote I thought Chribba was The Good Guy. .......... Have I erred? Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 123	Posted - 2016.07.05 12:00:36 - [82] - Quote Mike Adoulin wrote: I thought Chribba was The Good Guy. .......... Have I erred? Chribba is a unique case. He also started very early in EVE's history, back when enough trust existed to start an empire based upon it - and even then he has put a lot of work in over the years to build/maintain his peaceful empire. No modern player will ever be granted enough trust to build an empire to match Chribba's. Also despite his personal pacifism Chribba's empire is still built on a foundation of blood and destruction. He is zealously defended by the hordes of 0.0 players who rely heavily on his services.
aldhura Bartledannians 71	Posted - 2016.07.22 00:47:12 - [83] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Here's another reason to be "The Good Guy" : bad guys can't undock anything larger than a destroyer in space they (supposedly) own , whereas good guys get to fly really cool ships and shiny mods You know....I don't mine, I don't do anything that puts me in a position to get ganked....I had always kind of considered CODE to be something of a non-entity in EVE. They don't impact my life in any way really - so I thought all their talk was just Role Playing/exaggeration... But I keep seeing people like you who take a thread about all of the "bad" people in EVE....and immediately jump to only talking about CODE... Not just here, but all over the forums....And even in-game. People can't even insult each other in local (in high sec) without accusing the other person of being "CODE" anymore, regardless of relevance to their particular grievance... So I am forced to revise my opinion.... Apparently CODE really are making a huge impact on high-sec. They clearly dominate the thoughts of, if not the majority of carebears, at least a very significant percentage of them... They are more talked about than the rest of the "bad" guys combined... So I guess they've won. They really have taken over high sec in the minds of a surprisingly large percentage of players like you. Yet another example of how being the "Bad Guy" pays off I guess... (not to mention all the billions/trillions of isk they are raking in) People afraid to post with their mains have no opinions..
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 267	Posted - 2016.07.22 00:53:09 - [84] - Quote aldhura wrote: People afraid to post with their mains have no opinions.. Big words for someone hiding in a wormhole... Also, does it still apply if 50+% of the reason I still use a forum alt is just to **** people like you off?
Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 1815	Posted - 2016.07.22 08:14:28 - [85] - Quote aldhura wrote: blahblahblah...... Says the loser hiding in an NPC corp. On a forum alt. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Ro Fenrios Armilies Corporation Rabble Alliance 198	Posted - 2016.07.22 09:29:51 - [86] - Quote I have often chosen path of 'being the good guy'. It was one of the rules I decided to adopt when joining this game. Of course, it can be matter of perspective and you could argue I am not good guy as I too have engaged in piracy, have joined operations where utter destruction of opposing group is your goal and have even ganked once. But for each action I have taken there has usually been reason behind it, a justification. If space ship violence is measure for are you good or bad, then I am bad, but I do live by certain code. - Always, always help newbro out. (shoot him first though to test attitude.) give tips, isk, perhaps invite to corp if he is that kind of material. - Always remain honest and true to your words. If you agree something, make sure you hold to your end of agreement. I find reputation of being trustworthy far more better than temporary gain from scamming. Though for me, isk has never been any importance in this game. - Keep list of grudges. When you are bored and looking for something to shoot, see who has wronged you in past and go shoot him. Been pretty fun. Thus far we have destroyed high sec wardeccing empire. (space warriors in late 2013??), Pirat's poco empire (have they got those back yet?) Hunted individuals who hunted us when we were starting the game. Hot dropped hot droppers relentlessly for weekend and other fun stuff like that. There will be enough people who wrong you in this game. Remember that and you wont run out of content. Also, you can call it justice. Things I never do are scamming, awoxing, ganking (okay did once). I always try to not burn any bridges when groups split. My corp has split many times in past and also come back together again. We are not many, but being good guy has given me solid group of friends in this game that I know I can trust and have my back when needed. For me trust is most valuable asset in this game. No isk can replace that. Generally being good guy gives you more trust. Might not be quick or instantaneous gain, but it builds up over time.
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 270	Posted - 2016.07.22 10:34:28 - [87] - Quote Mike Adoulin wrote: aldhura wrote: blahblahblah...... Says the loser hiding in an NPC corp. On a forum alt. Lol, he was in a WH corp (probably still on a noob alt based on the killboard) when he first posted it... I wonder if he dropped corp to hide or if he was kicked...
Fiddly Pop The Conference Elite CODE. 52	Posted - 2016.08.25 22:14:19 - [88] - Quote kronlor wrote: There are grand rewards for those who can scam and steal the best, but nothing for those who play by the rules. The honest good guys i guess have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. Yes I cannot agree more. But you can help SAVE Highsec http://www.minerbumping.com/p/become-agent.html Without rules, there is no such thing as freedom. By enforcing a system of just laws, we give the miners liberation from their own worst instincts. And through this process, the miners can be molded into better people, the kind worthy of joining the new community of EVE.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2714	Posted - 2016.09.14 23:00:56 - [89] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Mike Adoulin wrote: I thought Chribba was The Good Guy. .......... Have I erred? No modern player will ever be granted enough trust to build an empire to match Chribba's. Kinda true and kinda nonsense right now. Chribba has the power of momentum behind him, but someone absolutely could become a trustable "Rival" if Chribba for the goods and services he provides and probably still make filthy lucre off of it. The ultimate problem is most attempts to do this have been thinly veiled scams. If I was going to setup an escrow service though I'd have to do it on a clean account because god knows the Goonswarm name would really work against me.
Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 1863	Posted - 2016.09.14 23:07:41 - [90] - Quote GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONS!!! grrrrgrrrrrrrrrrgrrrrrrrrrrrrrgrrrrrrrrrrrr herpderp ITS A TARP Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 790	Posted - 2016.09.14 23:08:49 - [91] - Quote SmilingVagrant wrote: Kinda true and kinda nonsense right now. Chribba has the power of momentum behind him, but someone absolutely could become a trustable "Rival" if Chribba for the goods and services he provides and probably still make filthy lucre off of it. The ultimate problem is most attempts to do this have been thinly veiled scams. If I was going to setup an escrow service though I'd have to do it on a clean account because god knows the Goonswarm name would really work against me. Ah but how do you know they've been thinly veiled scams? Did you give them a try? Or did you just assume they were thinly veiled scams? Because that is kind of my point - it is hard to tell the difference, and difficult to establish that level of trust for any meaningful transaction without someone first taking a chance and trusting you... The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony 766	Posted - 2016.09.14 23:29:45 - [92] - Quote I once X'ed up in Jita local and some duder sent me 1 Mil ISK. So I told everybody his services were legit.
Sasha Nemtsov Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2016.09.15 06:47:42 - [93] - Quote The trustworthy people don't apply for that job; if they do, suspect a scam.
Estuary Algaert Petulant Luddite GmbH 8	Posted - 2016.09.26 17:46:01 - [94] - Quote Love these good guy / bad guy threads. So yeah, I am a "good guy". I : Encourage people to play this fine game. Constructively help with fits and give advise. Honor contracts/pacts made. Treat other people with respect. Show patience and understanding with language barriers. My corp mates all share these ideals but, well, I am reasonably sure many people don't see us as "good". In the end we make a reasonable profit, meet a lot of interesting people, and have fun doing it. Quite rewarding.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2340	Posted - 2016.09.26 18:37:45 - [95] - Quote kronlor wrote: So as everyone knows for the most part in EVE you can do w/e you want or can to get ahead. Scam, lies and piracy are all viable strategies. So it makes me question what if any are the benefits to having any sort of moral compass at all in this game? I just dont see any benefit to being allies with concord, and not being the greatest scumbag possible. There are grand rewards for those who can scam and steal the best, but nothing for those who play by the rules. The honest good guys i guess have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. Define "Good Guy". There is no shortage of apoplectic rage-chimps who will shower you with profanity and slurs all while truly believing that they're the "good guy" because they don't blow up mining barges. Also, Concord is Eve's impartial executioner. You're positively deranged if you think they're a paragon of morality. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Piugattuk Lima beans Corp 481	Posted - 2016.09.26 18:46:54 - [96] - Quote This kind of post is inviting another debate, anyway my take, I am not what I consider a 'good guy' but I do play within the rules that keep me from dropping sec status, stealing, scamming, etc, to me if you need to do all that to "get ahead" you are just no good at the available ways to make isk in the many, many ways CCP has provided. I've been here for years and have had every ship I needed no problem with working for it, I have never stolen, cheated, or otherwise do dirty things to get ahead and I am having plenty of entertainment, if giving others a hard time is what gives you pleasure then I'd say it's not the game you enjoy, I'm not speaking of PVP or going into low security spaces and not expecting PVP i'm speaking of the many flies that buzz about with only one thing in mind, how they can ruin someone's day (you know who you are). Anyway, if being a good guy is not being a nutter then I guess it's me.
Piugattuk Lima beans Corp 481	Posted - 2016.09.26 19:01:27 - [97] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: I might argue that it is, in fact, the "bad guys" who are truly good in EvE. Without them there would be unregulated inflation from the glut of isk and materials constantly being generated. Our newbro friends would find their own modest acquisitions stripped of all value by the mindless hordes of missionbears, anombears, and minerbears burning hours upon hours of time wrecking the economy! If not for the valiant efforts of mercs, wardeccers, and suicide gankers, all the nutrients would be gone from the soil preventing new life from blossoming! The "bad" guys are the gardeners of EvE. Want to be good? Be bad. So very true. The very satisfaction these carebears and industrialist get from gathering and building stuff directly flows from the fact that "content generators"' create demand by using and exploding goods in New Eden. If ships could never be lost without the permission of the owner or respawned or something, none of this work would have value. No one would buy your stuff removing any meaning of what to be honest, is mechanically uninteresting work. Competitive PvP games only work if someone takes the initiative to attack. If everyone just sits around and builds all the time, nothing will happen and the game will stagnate and die. So next time you see your friendly neighborhood highsec aggressor, give them a friendly wave and thank them for their service to keeping one of the most compelling elements to this game, the player-driven economy, moving. They are indeed in a sense, good guys. Ahhh, but the same can be said for mission bears, I've lost my fair share of ships doing missions so this also helps, as an industrialist I buy lots of stuff off the markets, as a miner I sell to others who have big plans but need help getting those items (you ever mine for a few hours), it's not easy. I build tech II hulls and sell them, next time you fly tech II you should thank your industrialist, everything must work in harmony or it doesn't work.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2857	Posted - 2016.09.26 19:19:11 - [98] - Quote Piugattuk wrote: Ahhh, but the same can be said for mission bears, I've lost my fair share of ships doing missions When I started EVE I too ran missions. And I must say I can't even figure out how people are able to lose ships in those missions. Maybe those missions changed or something, but they where so predictable and you knew in advance what damage type was flying your way and what is best to kill them. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2342	Posted - 2016.09.26 19:42:31 - [99] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: When I started EVE I too ran missions. And I must say I can't even figure out how people are able to lose ships in there. Pretty sure most mission-related deaths boil down to Pornhub, Netflix, and disconnects, in that order. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2776	Posted - 2016.09.26 19:52:33 - [100] - Quote Piugattuk wrote: Ahhh, but the same can be said for mission bears, I've lost my fair share of ships doing missions so this also helps, as an industrialist I buy lots of stuff off the markets, as a miner I sell to others who have big plans but need help getting those items (you ever mine for a few hours), it's not easy. I build tech II hulls and sell them, next time you fly tech II you should thank your industrialist, everything must work in harmony or it doesn't work. I guess. To a limited extent at least. Demand created by loss of assets to NPCs is a fraction of that created by PvP. And by definition those mission runners are flooding material into the shared economy at a much greater rate than they are losing stuff missioning, or they would quickly go bankrupt and be able to undock in anything. PvPers on the hand only consume, not create (insurance excepted). As for "thanking my industrialist" I do that by giving them my ISK for their goods - they are not doing me a favour by making stuff for me (except for a few fans that appreciate me ganking their competition and make a donation). That is of course when I don't spend the time to click a few times myself and make my own gear. But ultimately you are correct, PvP needs industry and industry needs PvP. We need both producers and destroyers. It is the circle of Eve. The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?

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