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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
   |
Posted - 2016.05.08 02:30:26 -
[1] - Quote
So i have an honest queston for ccp or any devs there. Why was this patch pushed live when it obviously wasnt ready.
There were heaps of bugs and problems with mechanics that were reported weeks before live that went unfixed and were acknowledged by ccp.
Upon server startup there were heaps of bugs and problems with new item seeding, invention for new items that could be seen in 5 minutes of browsing items.
Citadels are partially working and what little is seems to clash immensily with some form of legacy code that doesnt seem like it will go away without a full rewrite in order to make citadels into the structures that ccp wants them to be.
So i have to ask why it went live? Why were important things like capital changes left untill less than a week on live then pushed forward with next to no testing on them.
Why was this patch not delayed like the industry patch was? You tried to cram 2 patchs worth of content into one and in the process neither part of it is working fully like it should and still needs work, although one needs a heap more than the other. I can speak for a heap of players i play with in that they would have been more than fine waiting for citadels to fully function properly before going live, instead of thise strange hybrid of not working structure that your sortof docked in but not really. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
11967
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 02:37:01 -
[2] - Quote
Calm down, Citadeleer
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
770
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 04:15:51 -
[3] - Quote
Your toon really loves those glasses doesn't he. Suits him quite well. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
4208
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 04:17:15 -
[4] - Quote
This is literally the norm for CCP. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2364
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 04:22:17 -
[5] - Quote
Wrecked your dreams?
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
173
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 05:05:16 -
[6] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Your toon really loves those glasses doesn't he. Suits him quite well. He thinks they make him look, smart but they only serve to make him look sinister.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
386
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 05:13:37 -
[7] - Quote
We haven't had the patch yet, only the release.
You have to release something bugged before it can be patched.
Just normal. Nothing to see here. |
Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 05:26:43 -
[8] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:We haven't had the patch yet, only the release.
You have to release something bugged before it can be patched.
Just normal. Nothing to see here.
there has been a patch every single day since the release went live. |
Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 05:30:11 -
[9] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:This is literally the norm for CCP.
It shouldnt be. CCP is a 13+ year old company that should know better than to push shodding patchs like this. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
4209
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 05:45:18 -
[10] - Quote
They have a product that has essentially zero competition because of the highly niche audience it caters to.
They don't have to be competent because there's no alternative product for EVE players to switch to. |
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Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 05:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:They have a product that has essentially zero competition because of the highly niche audience it caters to.
They don't have to be competent because there's no alternative product for EVE players to switch to.
So because there is no competition we shouldnt ask or demand better because we know they can do/be better? |
Hawke Frost
72
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 05:56:49 -
[12] - Quote
I'm already happy that updates don't nuke the database, cause hilarious problems or take 3 days to get the server up again. Not because I'm that easy to please but because I know CCP's track record. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
9861
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:02:29 -
[13] - Quote
Zetadelta333 wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:They have a product that has essentially zero competition because of the highly niche audience it caters to.
They don't have to be competent because there's no alternative product for EVE players to switch to. So because there is no competition we shouldnt ask or demand better because we know they can do/be better?
Don't worry. The offending DEVs will be punished accordingly.
On a more serious note... it is a lot better than it use to be. The patches actually work and the servers haven't had any major crashes (yet)! 
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
386
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:02:39 -
[14] - Quote
Zetadelta333 wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:We haven't had the patch yet, only the release.
You have to release something bugged before it can be patched.
Just normal. Nothing to see here. there has been a patch every single day since the release went live.
Oh ok, so you don't mean the release at all. My bad.
Which patch are you referring to then? |
Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:09:26 -
[15] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Zetadelta333 wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:We haven't had the patch yet, only the release.
You have to release something bugged before it can be patched.
Just normal. Nothing to see here. there has been a patch every single day since the release went live. Oh ok, so you don't mean the release at all. My bad. Which patch are you referring to then?
You do realize what your refering to is a patch wether you want to call it a release or not. Arguing semantics doesnt make citadels work, or fix the multitude of problems right now. |
Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:12:05 -
[16] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Zetadelta333 wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:They have a product that has essentially zero competition because of the highly niche audience it caters to.
They don't have to be competent because there's no alternative product for EVE players to switch to. So because there is no competition we shouldnt ask or demand better because we know they can do/be better? Don't worry. The offending DEVs will be punished accordingly. On a more serious note... it is a lot better than it use to be. The patches actually work and the servers haven't had any major crashes (yet)!
So because the entire server didnt burst into flames we should be gratefull we got as much as we did? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
386
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:16:30 -
[17] - Quote
Zetadelta333 wrote:You do realize what your refering to is a patch wether you want to call it a release or not. Arguing semantics doesnt make citadels work, or fix the multitude of problems right now.
The only thing I realise is you just didn't get the meaning of my original post. It's ok, it wasn't direct. |
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
18
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:22:51 -
[18] - Quote
Zetadelta333 wrote:You do realize what your refering to is a patch wether you want to call it a release or not. Arguing semantics doesnt make citadels work, or fix the multitude of problems right now.
neither does threads like these.
you should know how it goes by now, if you got a bug report it and provide evidence if possible. Nothing can be fixed instantly and takes time unless you want faulty patches released that barely fixes anything. CCP were clearly working towards a tight deadline as they had reported on several occasions that they were going to release the update after fanfest and you'd have to be dreaming to expect a fully working update with no bugs for any software or game :/ |
Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
173
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:27:15 -
[19] - Quote
You should also know, if you're as clever as you pretend to be, the difference between an expansion and a patch.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:42:44 -
[20] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:You should also know, if you're as clever as you pretend to be, the difference between an expansion and a patch.
An expansion is mearly a large patch with a fancy name to gain a footnote in wiki pages. Its still a patch. And again arguing about the semantics of the name of something doesnt address the issue at hand and is just deflecting from the problem brought up.
Quote:you should know how it goes by now, if you got a bug report it and provide evidence if possible. Nothing can be fixed instantly and takes time unless you want faulty patches released that barely fixes anything. CCP were clearly working towards a tight deadline as they had reported on several occasions that they were going to release the update after fanfest and you'd have to be dreaming to expect a fully working update with no bugs for any software or game :/
And hense they should have delayed the patch untill fixing the problems. Things were reported, ccp employs and devs posted saying they know about the issues but that they were going to push the patch live and not delay. And when asked why no response. The citadel issue is a whole nother problem of a modern code thats not compatible with legacy code resulting in a half baked structure that hardly functions as the dream that ccp outlined. |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
9862
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 06:58:31 -
[21] - Quote
Zetadelta333 wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Don't worry. The offending DEVs will be punished accordingly. On a more serious note... it is a lot better than it use to be. The patches actually work and the servers haven't had any major crashes (yet)! So because the entire server didnt burst into flames we should be gratefull we got as much as we did?
Be careful on what you say. It does happen from time to time.
And yes... be grateful. They put out a decent patch which, from my perspective, has minimum of issues relative to things they have done in the past (POS code anyone? The numerous iterations of drones that turned on friendlies? Infini-damage when resistances go above 100%? Infini-tracking when weapon tracking goes below 0? Dominion SOV? Fozzy SOV? Auto-pilot taking you into low-sec? The list goes on).
Suuuuure... they may have to tweak things here or there. But things more or less work the way they are supposed to.
Barring any glaring issues... I'll take the expectation that ~80 to 90% of something will work as advertised on the date it is due to be released over "we will delay everything until it works 100% as advertised!"
The former is more workable and honest. The latter is simply not realistic.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
4210
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 07:11:51 -
[22] - Quote
Zetadelta333 wrote:So because there is no competition we shouldnt ask or demand better because we know they can do/be better?
No, because there is no competition player discontent doesn't actually matter unless it's extreme because the chance of players quitting over it is extremely low since they're already heavily invested and there is no alternative to switch to.
I'm not saying that CCP putting out barely functional, unfinished updates riddled with game breaking bugs is good, it's just there's no particular reason why they would stop doing it.
You being temporarily upset about a bad patch does nothing. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17707
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 09:18:23 -
[23] - Quote
Why can't CCP always release bug free, perfectly balanced expansions like such mmo publishers as
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Kieron VonDeux
193
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 10:10:02 -
[24] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Why can't CCP always release bug free, perfectly balanced expansions like such mmo publishers as
Well, CCP doesn't have unlimited resources and time in which to accomplish that as many of the other MMO publishers have.
So it takes a huge sweat shop in some far off land and only needs to be ready in two decades, its not like they need any revenue to maintain that effort.
Mr deep pockets Mc Dickerson will make sure it happens.
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Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 10:23:27 -
[25] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Why can't CCP always release bug free, perfectly balanced expansions like such mmo publishers as
I dont expect bug free nor am i bitching about something not being bugfree. Im asking why the patch was not pushed back so problems that took over a week to be fixed on live or are still not fixed could be fixed before live deployment. Im asking why citadels were mashed into this patch when its plain as day obvious that they are nor working with the legacy code and the code needs a full overhaul for them to be anything but a cool gimick in space. |
lollerwaffle
Black Serpent Technologies
The-Culture
286
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 11:03:15 -
[26] - Quote
And here I was wondering myself, what whining for the sake of whining was like... and lo' and behold, a treasure is found.
Patch days suck, bugs suck, new content doesn't. Stop being a git about it. |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 11:32:45 -
[27] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:Malcanis wrote:Why can't CCP always release bug free, perfectly balanced expansions like such mmo publishers as Well, CCP doesn't have unlimited resources and time in which to accomplish that as many of the other MMO publishers have. So it takes a huge sweat shop in some far off land and only needs to be ready in two decades, its not like they need any revenue to maintain that effort. Mr deep pockets Mc Dickerson will make sure it happens.
yeah... I think you missed the sarcasm in his post... notice how no publishers are mentioned after "publishers as"... hint ...hint
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Romana Tash-Keram
Children of Gaea
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 11:46:41 -
[28] - Quote
CCP devs are doing the same we all do, learning by doing 
GÇ£I hope I remember everything," said Toni.
"You won't," said Trapp. "That's how you learn.
But after you make the same mistake one, or two, or five times,
you'll eventually get it.
And then you'll make new mistakes.GÇ¥
Louis Sachar, The Cardturner: A Novel about a King, a Queen, and a Joker |
Fat Buddah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 11:50:18 -
[29] - Quote
You could like take some weeks off from EVE and come back when things are ready?.
In the meantime I will safeguard all your assets. |
Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 12:06:43 -
[30] - Quote
bad times for ccp and they really need people resubbing.
pushing a non-finished and badly working product while heavily promoting it is the way to go. Bringing the requirements down so that any 3 weeks character can use a very good ship did not do that trick, so they employ chinese company tactics now.
look at the plex prices. They went down 25% because of people buying with RL money and investing in what they think it is a good alternative to POSes - which is not.
the problem is that, after they will see their shiny citadels blown to bits by 4-5 battleships, they will leave the game and not make the mistake of buying a sub again. So in the long run is a loss for ccp. |
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Memphis Baas
1504
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 13:04:17 -
[31] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:the problem is that, after they will see their shiny citadels blown to bits by a fleet of just 4-5 battleships ( a fleet that could not even scratch a pos ), they will leave the game and not make the mistake of buying a sub again. So in the long run is a loss for ccp.
You're the guy with the glasses, in the Citadels cinematic trailer. The guy who doesn't get it, that these things weren't intended for all the carebears in high-sec to build a safe nest inside. That they were intended as targets for all the PVP'ers to destroy. As "content".
So go ahead and leave the game. Next big release, you'll be back, because CCP's cinematic trailers are too good.
To the original post: why did they release a buggy expansion, on the date that they announced? Your question isn't "an honest question", it's a troll question. There are a number of honest answers, though, business-related. Your marketing advertises a date, your management expects it, so you pull all-nighters trying to meet it, and you release. Because the bugs are minor and can be fixed after release, after everyone's gotten some sleep. Nobody waits for "perfect" in the business world, not when "good enough" gets the money.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
11973
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 13:28:10 -
[32] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Your toon really loves those glasses doesn't he. Suits him quite well.
Why, thank you
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
56
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Posted - 2016.05.08 13:33:19 -
[33] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:bad times for ccp and they really need people resubbing.
pushing a non-finished and badly working product while heavily promoting it is the way to go. Skill trading and bringing the requirements down so that any 3 weeks character can use a very good ship did not do that trick, so they employ chinese company tactics now and sell untested products.
look at the plex prices. They went down 25% because of people buying with RL money and investing in what they think it is a good alternative to POSes - which is not.
the problem is that, after they will see their shiny citadels blown to bits by a fleet of just 4-5 battleships ( a fleet that could not even scratch a pos ), they will leave the game and not make the mistake of buying a sub again. So in the long run is a loss for ccp.
Actually, you,can look up WHY they are dropping. A perfect storm of sorts. The expansion, the northern war, people sitting on PLEX, rich people in game. It's not just people dropping cash on PLEX. It's a bit of a stretch to say everyone is dropping money on plex. |
Marsha Mallow
2830
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Posted - 2016.05.08 13:35:18 -
[34] - Quote
The features that have gone live with the release are pretty significant and worth getting in now, especially asset safety, supercap tethering and markets. The ACL is a wholly new feature and addresses long term complaints with standings/role management at a corp level without having to do a corp role revamp. It probably is fair to say the implementation will take the rest of the year, but since outposts and POS aren't going away having these new features alongside the existing stuff strikes me as a useful way to do the change over.
Also I think a lot of indy types who use structures for research/manu and moon mining are waiting for the next batches of structures rather than cits. These are really somewhere inbetween POS and outposts and have appeal to corps and alliances as strategic platforms, so people shouldn't be too disappointed if they don't fit with their existing playstyle. They're not really meant to, or aim to create new ones we haven't seen.
Terminator Cindy wrote:the problem is that, after they will see their shiny citadels blown to bits by a fleet of just 4-5 battleships ( a fleet that could not even scratch a pos ), they will leave the game and not make the mistake of buying a sub again. So in the long run is a loss for ccp.
On the flipside PVPers have been complaining about a lack of things to fight over for a while. For those who want to fight either offensively or defensively these have a huge draw. Also the initial burst of massacring Ms across the game is likely to settle down once they proliferate and other sized cits are launched. Some patience is probably required to see how things go - if people resub then cancel within weeks that's their loss and they'll miss how the dynamic plays out. Plenty will resub for the combat incentives.
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
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Memphis Baas
1505
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 13:39:21 -
[35] - Quote
I mean, the message needs to be repeated before it will sink in, and guess what, CCP is going to repeat it: next few expansions they're adding more, different citadels, with different capabilities, so you can market and agents and PVE and blah blah blah. Carebear paradise.
No changes planned or announced as far as defenses, so as soon as you put the new citadels out, they're bling targets for the PVP crowd and they get popped. Until you get what this game is about.
Citadels are working exactly as advertised in the trailer, wouldn't you say?
EDIT: Supposedly the trailer shows the largest one being destroyed; count the number of titans in that trailer, and tell me which alliance doesn't have about 6-10x that many titans. And all it takes for the death blow is the doomsday weapon from one. So where exactly did CCP say that these things would be safe? |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
888
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 13:42:36 -
[36] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:bad times for ccp and they really need people resubbing.
pushing a non-finished and badly working product while heavily promoting it is the way to go. Skill trading and bringing the requirements down so that any 3 weeks character can use a very good ship did not do that trick, so they employ chinese company tactics now and sell untested products.
look at the plex prices. They went down 25% because of people buying with RL money and investing in what they think it is a good alternative to POSes - which is not.
the problem is that, after they will see their shiny citadels blown to bits by a fleet of just 4-5 battleships ( a fleet that could not even scratch a pos ), they will leave the game and not make the mistake of buying a sub again. So in the long run is a loss for ccp.
The citadels that have exploded have mostly been the ones caught in the 15 minute timer after anchoring. There are plenty of citadels that are up without being exploded.
Perhaps people expected their citadel to be able to solo a fleet, but I am not sure quite why they expected that.
Plex prices went down for a number of reasons, the largest of which is people liquidating plex they had in their hangars to get the BPOs and skillbooks, also for people buying injectors.
Additionally, plex has not gone down by 25%.
They were at 990 when the patch hit. 25% drop would be 742m. They have dropped to 930 as a low, and are hovering around 940-950.
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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Memphis Baas
1505
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 13:47:02 -
[37] - Quote
No, the defenses of the smallest citadel can reportedly be overcome by a medium battleship fleet, as she's saying. Because they aren't like POSes, you need a fleet to defend.
Prior to this release, POSes were being destroyed left and right, but she's forgetting that. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
389
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 14:02:44 -
[38] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:No, the defenses of the smallest citadel can reportedly be overcome by a medium battleship fleet, as she's saying. Because they aren't like POSes, you need a fleet to defend.
Prior to this release, POSes were being destroyed left and right, but she's forgetting that.
A fleet of Enyo's took out an Austrahaus (?sp) a couple of days ago.
Who says assault frigates need rebalancing. They can assault a large Citadel ok. |
Zathra Narazi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 14:05:48 -
[39] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:They have a product that has essentially zero competition because of the highly niche audience it caters to.
They don't have to be competent because there's no alternative product for EVE players to switch to.
There will be. Camelot Unchained and Crowfall will both be competing with Eve when they come out. |
Charley Varrick
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 14:10:20 -
[40] - Quote
They may release stuff bugged, but at least they patch it on a regular basis. Seems like every other day I log in there is a patch downloaded. A lot of games now days release content with game breaking bugs and it's several months before there is a patch. |
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Ferrus Kanus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2016.05.08 14:23:35 -
[41] - Quote
But we wanted citadels now! *slams fist on table* |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3510
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 14:32:48 -
[42] - Quote
CCP wouldn't be CCP if they didn't release a patch with bugs.
And CCP are largely allright in my book
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
751
|
Posted - 2016.05.08 15:58:37 -
[43] - Quote
Sometimes a gaming company cannot predict how things will act once it hits live servers, until the playerbase have had a chance to different things out. |
Zetadelta333
High Flyers
Northern Coalition.
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 06:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Sometimes a gaming company cannot predict how things will act once it hits live servers, until the playerbase have had a chance to different things out.
When things are broken and bugged on the test server, live server wont magically fix them. |
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CCP Falcon
12942
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 09:57:56 -
[45] - Quote
If you'd like to provide feedback on the Citadel expansion, you can do so here.
If you'd like to report issues, you can do so here.
Please use the appropriate threads, and avoid creating new ones.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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