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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.08 21:11:54 -
[1] - Quote
Catching up on videos, and ran into the part where something needs to be done about Headshooting the FC.
Why not add bonus Resistance per player under the commanding Officers.
Squad Commander gets 1% to Shield, Armor and Hull per player under him (Must be ON GRID with commander) Wing Commander gets 1% to Shield, Armor and Hull per player under him (Squad Commander plust those under him ON GRID) Fleet Commander gets.... you get the idea
The larger the fleet, the greater the need to keep your FC alive, the greater his resistance. As the battle wears on most fleets on the loosing end flee anyways and IF the FC happens to be caught he can be dealt with as a normal ship rather than this INSANE tank 'special' ship
Implementation seems easy enough but i'm no programmer, hence why its an Idea.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3232
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Posted - 2016.05.09 00:42:17 -
[2] - Quote
Because id just have everyone add alts to fleet in shuttles and fleet warp them into the fight for free resists.
It'd be simpler and more sandbox to just let people head shot. I'm astounded it's considered a problem.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
384
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Posted - 2016.05.09 01:19:03 -
[3] - Quote
Just add a gang link that shuffles the names of everyone in fleet and on-grid. No more headshotting FCs unless you can spot them by their behaviour.
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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.09 02:00:53 -
[4] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Because id just have everyone add alts to fleet in shuttles and fleet warp them into the fight for free resists.
It'd be simpler and more sandbox to just let people head shot. I'm astounded it's considered a problem.
I'd bring another combat ship, but what ever floats your boat. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2475
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Posted - 2016.05.09 02:28:42 -
[5] - Quote
I think this whole idea is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Besides some ones FC getting head-shot is one of the ways new FCs are born
Citadel worm hole tax
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3233
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Posted - 2016.05.09 02:31:25 -
[6] - Quote
I cant control ten combat ships i dont use isboxer. Maybe i can multi box two or three. But not ten.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.09 02:43:08 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:I think this whole idea is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Besides some ones FC getting head-shot is one of the ways new FCs are born
and to an extent, i agree. But i do think that what i stated above is a better idea than the "tank" ship. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
1001
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Posted - 2016.05.09 03:05:40 -
[8] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:I cant control ten combat ships i dont use isboxer. Maybe i can multi box two or three. But not ten. It's not that hard to multibox 10 clients, you don't need isboxer either, just bind keys to windows over character names for alt tabbing.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2478
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Posted - 2016.05.09 03:08:42 -
[9] - Quote
Glitch Online wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:I think this whole idea is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Besides some ones FC getting head-shot is one of the ways new FCs are born and to an extent, i agree. But i do think that what i stated above is a better idea than the "tank" ship.
You're right your idea is so much better. The FC who has to deal with less incoming damage has the better tank
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2478
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Posted - 2016.05.09 03:09:48 -
[10] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:I cant control ten combat ships i dont use isboxer. Maybe i can multi box two or three. But not ten. It's not that hard to multibox 10 clients, you don't need isboxer either, just bind keys to windows over character names for alt tabbing.
he is not talking about what can be done. hes is talking about what he can do. so for him he would be better off with 10 cheep shuttles
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4217
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Posted - 2016.05.09 03:21:53 -
[11] - Quote
It's called a backup FC.
Organizing a fleet with command totally dependent on a single individual with no redundancy is setting yourself up for failure. |
Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.09 03:21:59 -
[12] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:I cant control ten combat ships i dont use isboxer. Maybe i can multi box two or three. But not ten. It's not that hard to multibox 10 clients, you don't need isboxer either, just bind keys to windows over character names for alt tabbing. he is not talking about what can be done. hes is talking about what he can do. so for him he would be better off with 10 cheep shuttles
You guys do realize that this feature is NOT intended for 'solo' pvp... If you want to give your self an Edge in your 'solo' pvp just use a Booster Alt as it is done now.
Large fleets battles where ships get taken out on the first Volley, THAT is where this feature would have a large effect. It would be pretty bad of an FC to ask his small gang fleet to log in their alts on a shuttle for HIS benefit only. Can it be done, sure, will he do it many more times after that, i doubt. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3233
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Posted - 2016.05.09 05:16:56 -
[13] - Quote
Why not booster AND empty alts? And calling fleet mates to bring alts as scouts, squad boosters and logi already happens. A gang of 20 will have half that in neutral support in the form of alts (more if its hi-sec). If i also get more resists just for having extra bodies on the field, why not?
And in hi-sec during a war dec i can put as many fleet members as i like on grid. You cant shoot the ones that aren't in a wardec against you.
100 shuttles = 100% resists right? Great.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.09 05:27:54 -
[14] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Why not booster AND empty alts? And calling fleet mates to bring alts as scouts, squad boosters and logi already happens. A gang of 20 will have half that in neutral support in the form of alts (more if its hi-sec). If i also get more resists just for having extra bodies on the field, why not?
And in hi-sec during a war dec i can put as many fleet members as i like on grid. You cant shoot the ones that aren't in a wardec against you.
100 shuttles = 100% resists right? Great.
lol.. I really shouldn't reply to this, but if your scouts are on grid with you... they're doing it wrong. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3233
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Posted - 2016.05.09 05:29:05 -
[15] - Quote
Nah you've just misread
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.09 05:36:55 -
[16] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Nah you've just misread
With that in mind, remember, this is an idea, which can be tweaked. Your War-Dec example can be fixed ( like not allowing players to move in and out of command positions while in combat)
Edit: Suppose an out of corp alt joins fleet with a player that is in a command position, Alt will receive a msg stating " you are about to join a Fleet which is currently at war, You will become a Viable War Target. Do You Accept "...
Possible solution. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3233
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Posted - 2016.05.09 05:45:17 -
[17] - Quote
But i could still do it in low sec, null or wh and force enemy gangs to cycle through fodder whilst the fleet leadership use glass cannons that suddenly aren't so fragile.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.09 06:07:10 -
[18] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:But i could still do it in low sec, null or wh and force enemy gangs to cycle through fodder whilst the fleet leadership use glass cannons that suddenly aren't so fragile.
Yes, you definitely can. If you are willing to pay for that many accounts OR force your Fleet Members to tug their alts around, of course. But again, the smarter thing to do would be to ask them to bring 2 combat ships and use them while you are Safe with your bonus Resist.
That or try to actually pvp against a group around your size and have fun. |
Iain Cariaba
2970
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Posted - 2016.05.09 06:35:03 -
[19] - Quote
Glitch Online wrote:If you are willing to pay... So you want a mechanic that automatically provides a very large advantage to those with the money to pay for it?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2016.05.09 06:38:31 -
[20] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Glitch Online wrote:If you are willing to pay... So you want a mechanic that automatically provides a very large advantage to those with the money to pay for it?
How is this any different than paying for 5, 10, 15 accounts, putting them on Logi ships and keeping your one character repped while he tackles others and kills them? |
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Iain Cariaba
2970
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Posted - 2016.05.09 07:42:29 -
[21] - Quote
Glitch Online wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Glitch Online wrote:If you are willing to pay... So you want a mechanic that automatically provides a very large advantage to those with the money to pay for it? How is this any different than paying for 5, 10, 15 accounts, putting them on Logi ships and keeping your one character repped while he tackles others and kills them? Because you have to actively control the 5, 10, 15 logi ships, something that is absent from your suggestion. Your suggestion is nothing more than a buff to those with deeper pockets.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2479
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Posted - 2016.05.09 09:53:27 -
[22] - Quote
you still havent explained why you think it is good that the FC that has to deal with less incoming damge also gets more tank
Citadel worm hole tax
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2542
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Posted - 2016.05.09 11:28:14 -
[23] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:you still havent explained why you think it is good that the FC that has to deal with less incoming damge also gets more tank
They still haven't explained why headshotting the enemy FC is a problem.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2481
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Posted - 2016.05.09 11:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:you still havent explained why you think it is good that the FC that has to deal with less incoming damge also gets more tank They still haven't explained why headshotting the enemy FC is a problem.
it's not
it's a good thing
Citadel worm hole tax
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3234
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Posted - 2016.05.09 13:30:58 -
[25] - Quote
Glitch Online wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:But i could still do it in low sec, null or wh and force enemy gangs to cycle through fodder whilst the fleet leadership use glass cannons that suddenly aren't so fragile. Yes, you definitely can. If you are willing to pay for that many accounts OR force your Fleet Members to tug their alts around, of course. But again, the smarter thing to do would be to ask them to bring 2 combat ships and use them while you are Safe with your bonus Resist. That or try to actually pvp against a group around your size and have fun.
When my friends are already paying for that many accounts and already bringing alts to fleets, whats a few more alts? Its not like they dont benefit from the fc being invulnerable. I'm not doing them a great disservice by asking them to bring alts. Even though I'd be the one getting the resists, im helping them defend their homes and make more money.
I remember reading about a group of Russians multi boxing six accounts each during a sov war. Any and all tactics that can be used will be used. Any mechanic that can be exploited will be. Because when it comes to a sandbox, some fights are about survival. Kill or be killed. We don't play fair, we dont play nice. And that's how we like it.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2010
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Posted - 2016.05.09 13:48:28 -
[26] - Quote
The whole "don't shoot the leader" thin we do in real life is a ridiculous practice. It was a rule invented by kings to keep kings alive. If we would get rid of this rule - there would be a lot less war on the planet. Assholeleaders would be kept to a minimum.
In eve - war is good. Longer wars are better than shorter wars. Taking out the FC is a great practice. It should stay. How beHere's my basis:
1. Being an FC isn't all that... really it isn't. Taking out an FC isn't pivotal in large eve engagements. (this is where I tell you mega rock star FC types to just get over yourselves - It's a relatively simple game and many folks can do your job just as well as you can)
2. Unlike real life you have the option to have as many characters as you like. Roll up an unknown, mix in w/ the gang and do your FC thing incognito. It's not that difficult to get lost in the crowd w/ larger numbers. (Again you just have to put ego aside and not let folks know which character you're playing from - difficult for megalomaniac types such as Donald, Hillary and that sort).
3. But SPAIS.... If you're as awesome as you think you are, you should be able to get around a few spais. Learn to OPSEC and you'll be fine.
In conclusion... you don't need some special ship to prove you're special. Be good (opsec) and be special w/out a special ship. This whole idea is just mind-numbingly mind-numbing.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7665
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Posted - 2016.05.10 05:46:25 -
[27] - Quote
Decoy drones.
The mechanic is already in place to "skin" ships and make one ship look like another. Remember that Scope video where a ship was captured in total disguise?
Were it up to meGäó
- decoy drones using skin mechanics could be skinned to look like anything you wanted (you have to buy the "drone skin" like you would say buy a script for a module) - they would appear "as skinned" on D-scan and overview. - only a ship scanner would reveal their true nature. (yeah, someone will have to fit one). - the "pilot name" attachment on the overview would be a duplicate of who whoever launched the decoy drone. So you would have say 5 maelstroms piloted by Captain Bob but... which one is the one? (And by the time you figure it out, the fight is on.. unless you are really lucky or have the ability to primary six ships at once). - respective drone size for respective size of that which they are deployed to imitate. Large drones for large ships, medium for BC and cruisers, small for dessies and frigates, etc. Capital decoys? Hey wouldn't that be interesting. - expectedly a decoy drone is not going to take much damage, or attack, or anything of that nature. - "hit" effects on a decoy will look different from the real thing (meaning: pay attention beyond "F1 Monkey")
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2802
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Posted - 2016.05.10 09:41:36 -
[28] - Quote
nerf all things tactical and strategic
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
737
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Posted - 2016.05.10 11:10:23 -
[29] - Quote
As someone who leads fleets of that kind of size:
I shoot fcs and I get headshotted myself. We deal with it by having backup fcs, or even fcing from alts in fleet. We just find a way to handle it. FCs don't need special love, we're usually some of the most resourceful people in the game. Some FCs are capable of single-handedly equipping their entire fleets.
Your average strategic fleet is flown by an FC in an overtanked ship. Cruiser fleets in gsf are fced by nano battlecruisers or overtanked cruisers. Hac fleets and above are FCed by overtanked tech 3 cruisers or command ships. The most important part of an fc ship is not just the tank: it's his expanded probe launcher that takes 220 cpu just to fit. If I FC frigates, I gimp-fit just to squeeze the probe launcher in. T3Ds with that bonus to probe launcher fitting also help a lot.
Fcs usually expect to be headshotted going in. So you prepare your tanky ships and your remote reps properly. If that doesn't work, your backups take over. I've also nominated veterans to takeover fleets on the fly.
No one gives a flying **** about the actual squad and wing positions beyond setting up boosts because they aren't really used that way. If I need to split my forces, I would usually be fielding 2 fleets using 2 fcs in 2 separate channels that can talk to each other while sending their own instructions to their respective fleets. But hardly anyone outside the major coalitions have that kind of IT infrastructure to set up communications that way. But also, if I needed 5 small gangs on the field, I would use 5 fleets. Not 5 wings, or 5 squads.
If you really want CCP to design a ship just for fcs, maybe they could iterate on command ships to make them even tankier and with better probing capabilities. Otherwise everything is mostly working as intended.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
737
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Posted - 2016.05.10 12:54:56 -
[30] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:I think this whole idea is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Besides some ones FC getting head-shot is one of the ways new FCs are born
The first time I got to drive a shiny fleet was when Asher Elias got headshotted sometime in 2014 in the middle of Teneferis.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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