If they really want to shake down eve, why don't they start attacking these POS's?

They can field the dps, even in highsec (unless too negative sec status), they can also fund war decs.

Or are goons really just paper tiger?

nice try but unless you pay them I doubt the goons will shot POS for you

now if you offer them a fee.... say a billion each, 50% up front, you might get your system cleared so you can industry in peace

but obviously you are not important enough to hire the goons

There's no tech in high sec, so what's the point.

Goons avoid anything that smells remotely like work.

Why don't goons start taking down low and high sec POS's?

Goons avoid anything that smells remotely like work.

running production or research out of a high sec POS allows you to avoid the Cartels like Goon but you won't compete with them on the markets.

While they don't seem to grasp the simple reality that for high sec miners it's not about cutting in to the profits of me, me, me goons, it's simply content in a game and if they keep it up those players will go find a game that actually provides real content rather than some fantasy RMT entropia, none of this really plays out with high sec POS ownership.

POS bashing can be a fun event if...

They own a good chunk of Tech moons. If you're building T2, you're paying them.

If you're manufacturing T1 at a POS for profit, well.... Ok.

What I just said was, High Sec Pos allows you to circumvent the Cartels. No high sec POS ops will compete with Sov station production. For the alliance holding the outpost cost of productions is next to 0.

Actually, 0.0 production can't compete with all the highsec factory slots. Nullsec production capacity in stations is incredibly limited: we have like 10 slots available...in factory stations, which are "dedicated" to building things. We import the vast majority of things we need from highsec because (and CCP hasn't figured this out in eight years) highsec lends itself a thousand times more easily to building things than nullsec does.

Why doesn't the fee the NPCs charge to build an item scale with the daily average the module sells for?

You guys are confusing easier with cheaper. When you look at POS fuel costs in Sov systems for parts production, make final products in Stations and run Industry as an efficient model it's better to be a nullbear than a high sec bear. Both by way of greed and bad mechanics, null crews don't want Industrial players in thier ranks though and for that, I say tough.

You forgot shipping. Add in shipping HUGE volumes of raw materials down, and similarly huge volumes of finished products up, and there goes your Nullsec "efficiency" many times over.

Why are you shipping anything in? It's easier to min veld in high sec. Not better, easier. Everything you need to produce in null sec is in Null sec..

[quote=RubyPorto]
You are doing it wrong.
Why are you shipping anything in? It's easier to min veld in high sec. Not better, easier. Everything you need to produce in null sec is in Null sec. You aren't exploiting it as a production tool. The only thing you need to ship in are datcores and last time I checked they can be brough in by the tens of thousands in a T2 cloaked hauler of if need be, a jump freighter.

You guys are mincing words now.
importing moon goo from High sec? Show me the high sec tech moons please.

I've lived in null, you would know that if you read my employment history. I have 4 accounts, a pure productions specialits up to and including Titans, a pure mining (ice and Ores), refining, reproc and manufaturing account, a Pure PvP account and a mixed PvP capital and PvE grinder account. Every alliance without fail found use for the PvP pitbull account and didn't give a **** about the other 3 because it meant they might have to share.

The fact is, high sec is convenient, null sec is not. Don't cry on my shoulder because you can't be bothered. As for the renters comment, that's just pure Bull **** greed through and through and goes back to what I said before. Cartel's and Mafia's.

Back to the OP: The answer is the same. Greed and high sec POS doesn't interfere with thier greed.

Show me where I can find Tech in the south please. 200m isk finders fee.



How were your Indy toons going to benefit the alliance? Were you going to provide ships and mods at Jita prices? (nope) a small markup? (nope) a large markup (Bingo) Otherwise it's not worthwhile to do.

Convenient = Lower Opportunity Cost (and mineral cost via hisec), Lower Opportunity Cost = Cheaper, (in manufacturing) Cheaper = Better

I can't be bothered because it's (for most things) more work for less reward than doing the manufacturing in HS and importing the results. It's why I have nearly 1mil m3 of minerals from hauler spawns sitting in my hangar.

Current mechanics mean the only way to kill a Hisec POS (owned by intelligent people) is to RF it then Suicide Gank it once it comes out of RF. Couple thousand alpha tornados per POS, sounds fun.

Why mine Veld if I can mine Ark? Isk/hr is better by a margin that more than accounts for shipping costs.

Easier+Safer for the same reward = Better

More importantly, why mine at all if I can get CONCORD to pour isk into my pocket instead?

And plenty of Alliances recuit industrial corps. They're called Renters. PvP Corps support the alliance by directly fighting for Sov. Renters support the alliance by providing resources, Isk, materials, etc.


Moon Goo/Components are yet another thing you're forgetting you need to import.

Hey, do you guys remember White Noise?

Yeah, we burned down their space today. All of it.

Keep coming up with excuses to hold the status quo.
There is a reason all the Alliances have ship replacement programs. Everyone in EVE is 3 ships from broke because all the wealth goes in to the top of the pyramid. If you don't have executor rights in a corp your just a tool for them to exploit and that's what every null sec alliance recruits, Tools to oil the machine.

I've gone to null 4 times rich, came back broke and the RMT/ cartels got a little richer with thier "war tax" and perpetual demand to have me losing ships in menial PvP that keeps thier production runs going.

Feel free to keep recruiting your meat shields, just don't expect me to waste my resources on your scam.

---

All the stuff about tech moons in the north, I'd say we agree on that but it doesn't change anything I said about Cartels and High Sec POS's. Now we are argueing about things we agree on, creating Anarchy and completely derailing common sense, feeding the people who succeed at keeping Status Quo.

Jita Prices? I can't sell Titans and Carriers in Jita. Doesn't it strike you as odd that someone says they can make Titans and you think having them in your alliance is more of a threat than not having them in your alliance? That doesn't seem just plain wrong to you?

Actually, alliances have ship replacement programs because they don't want line members burning out from grinding up ISK to replace their ships. I don't know what worthless, failed alliances you were in, but we don't have "war taxes." Our tax rate is always 15%. Are we peacefully riding bikes? 15% tax. Are our CSAA towers on fire, core systems SBUed and reinforced? 15% tax. No CTAs, no red pen nonsense.

Jita Prices? I can't sell Titans and Carriers in Jita. Doesn't it strike you as odd that someone says they can make Titans and you think having them in your alliance is more of a threat than not having them in your alliance? That doesn't seem just plain wrong to you?

If they really want to shake down eve, why don't they start attacking these POS's?

They can field the dps, even in highsec (unless too negative sec status), they can also fund war decs.

Or are goons really just paper tiger?

You guys are mincing words now.
importing moon goo from High sec? Show me the high sec tech moons please.

I've lived in null

Actually, alliances have ship replacement programs because they don't want line members burning out from grinding up ISK to replace their ships. I don't know what worthless, failed alliances you were in, but we don't have "war taxes." Our tax rate is always 15%. Are we peacefully riding bikes? 15% tax. Are our CSAA towers on fire, core systems SBUed and reinforced? 15% tax. No CTAs, no red pen nonsense.

Moongoo is exported or reacted and exported to hisec, others import it to react it and export it. Some even import it to do manufacturing, but most just buy the finished article and save time.


I see why you're saying this in past tense.

Translation for the 1337/h4rdc0r3-speak into proper English:

Hey, guys! Remember us? Does anyone still care?

Um...guys?
Hey, guys??

GUYS??????!!

Boy are you mad about Goons.

Boy, your responses sure are predictable and formulaic.

If they really want to shake down eve, why don't they start attacking these POS's?

They can field the dps, even in highsec (unless too negative sec status), they can also fund war decs.

Or are goons really just paper tiger?

I think the answer to your question has something to do with the words 'attention span'

Hey buddy, you should show some respect for someone with so much more plus rep than you.

Sorry, mate, but Lyris Nairn is the only Sky-Captain of my heart ...That, and Harlot's avi is just revolting

Actually, 0.0 production can't compete with all the highsec factory slots. Nullsec production capacity in stations is incredibly limited: we have like 10 slots available...in factory stations, which are "dedicated" to building things. We import the vast majority of things we need from highsec because (and CCP hasn't figured this out in eight years) highsec lends itself a thousand times more easily to building things than nullsec does.

What rot. POS's can build **** too. Maybe YOU haven't figure THAT out in your 12 years of life.

1 x component array will take 10 jobs.
1 x equipment array can take what, 6.

But it needs MINERALS.

Might be it's just soooooooo much easier to import than get the leets to go "mining". GASP!

Might be it's just soooooooo much easier to import than get the leets to go "mining". GASP!

Our tax rate is always 15%

Which is why you're considered 3.5% more carebear then hisec nubcorps.

Cipher Jones missing the point as usual.

Yes, it is. In EVE as it is now, industry of all kinds in 0.0 - from mining, to manufacturing, research, invention, etc. is just so terrible that there's no reason to do it other than "I enjoy this kind of gamestyle". Importing from highsec is faster, cheaper, more efficient, and safer.

I really hope this gets fixed one day. I would love to see true empires rise in 0.0, where every facet of the game has its place and every profession is useful. But I have a feeling that boosting 0.0 industry to viable levels would make every "highseccer" cry because they can't make the most profit by themselves while sitting safe in an NPC station.

You should try living in null and doing production in null before you make any more comments.

Boy, your responses sure are predictable and formulaic.

Im still all for a Empire VS Null war.

You and me both.

ahh because you can just take it down b4 a war starts duh ohh i mean derp