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Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
   |
Posted - 2016.05.13 03:53:21 -
[1] - Quote
This is so frustrating when you forget a 0 in your price and you instantaneously sell to buy orders... This shouldn't happen.
I don't understand why we don't have a confirmation when this happen when the opposite exist ? When you try to place a buy order for 10x the prices you are warned "The price you have chosen is 623,46 % above regional average. Are you sure you want to enter this order?"
https://i.imgur.com/mXQjzmO.png |
Iain Cariaba
2991
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 04:15:25 -
[2] - Quote
Redundant thread is redundant, and has been reported for redundancy.
There, was that sentence more redundant than this whine thread made for no reason than you couldn't be bothered to look twice at the number you entered?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 04:28:41 -
[3] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Redundant thread is redundant, and has been reported for redundancy.
There, was that sentence more redundant than this whine thread made for no reason than you couldn't be bothered to look twice at the number you entered?
Your answer might be redundant as well then. The feature is a legitimate demand that would help a lot of people. And there is no reason why this have not been implemented yet.
And if you think I don't double check prices before I enter an order, you are wrong. I even enabled the warning after each order. I'm not drunk either or tired. But when you enter an order 2.209.000.000 is really easily confused with 220.900.000 |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
9894
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 04:57:40 -
[4] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:The feature is a legitimate demand that would help a lot of people. And there is no reason why this have not been implemented yet.
Likewise, there is no good reason why it should be implemented beyond "there should be a mechanism to prevent me making a mistake."
Mistakes happen. They are a part of the game. Be more diligent next time.
Hell... there are countless ways to "fatfinger" things while flying out in space. Why should market orders be the "special snowflake" and get extra safety nets?
edit: also... "demanding" that something be changes is not a good way to go about things. You are not entitled to anything any more than the rest of us.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 05:01:38 -
[5] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Aaron Honk wrote:The feature is a legitimate demand that would help a lot of people. And there is no reason why this have not been implemented yet. Likewise, there is no good reason why it should be implemented beyond "there should be a mechanism to prevent me making a mistake." Mistakes happen. They are a part of the game. Be more diligent next time. Hell... there are countless ways to "fatfinger" things while flying out in space. Why should market orders be the "special snowflake" and get extra safety nets? edit: also... "demanding" that something be changes is not a good way to go about things. You are not entitled to anything any more than the rest of us.
Ok so, please explain to me why this feature exist ingame for setting up buy orders ? Shouldn't we remove it then ? Why is there a "safety net" in one way but not the other ?
I also used the search function and obviously I found a lot of similar topic. But none of them had a response from a dev |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
9894
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 05:05:32 -
[6] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:Ok so, please explain to me why this feature exist ingame for setting up buy orders ? Shouldn't we remove it then ? Why is there a "safety net" in on way but not the other ?
Hmmm... you're right. It probably should be removed too.
Aaron Honk wrote:I also used the search function and obviously I found a lot of similar topic. But none of them had a response from a dev
DEVs rarely respond here. Like... at all.
They prefer players to hash out the ideas and argue why the change is justified. Then they cherry pick the best ideas among them.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 05:09:13 -
[7] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Aaron Honk wrote:Ok so, please explain to me why this feature exist ingame for setting up buy orders ? Shouldn't we remove it then ? Why is there a "safety net" in on way but not the other ? Hmmm... you're right. It probably should be removed. I very much dislike "safety mechanisms." It is much more entertaining and interesting when mistakes are a very real possibility. Aaron Honk wrote:I also used the search function and obviously I found a lot of similar topic. But none of them had a response from a dev DEVs rarely respond here. Like... at all. They prefer players to hash out the ideas and argue why the idea/change is justified or what possible effects can be caused by them (because players can often see things DEVs can't). Then they cherry pick the best ideas among them.
Ok then remove every warning ingame, eve is too easy right ?  Way to think backward. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
9894
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 05:26:56 -
[8] - Quote
Actually... I would really love it if most "safety features" were removed. Back in 2009 there were few if any warnings that stopped you from doing dumb things and/or experimenting. And it was a MUCH more interesting game in my opinion.
Maddening. But interesting. And I look at all the dumb things I have done with a kind of fondness.
This viewpoint isn't exactly backwards either.
Take cars for example.
Yeah... the new ones are safer, more efficient, have lots of special "assist" features... they are, in almost every way, "better" than the cars of old.
But that electric steering assist doesn't really allow you to "feel" the car and road... not like pure manual steering does. With manual steering you really have to pay attention to how you are driving and how to adjust to changing conditions.
Back-up cameras and parking assist? If you come to rely on these things then you won't have a reason to properly adjust your mirrors and/or have good understanding of the dimensions of the car. Just let the system do it for you.
In a game that touts itself as "hardcore" and "punishing to the lazy and dumb" safety mechanisms simply prevent people from learning how to be better.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 05:46:36 -
[9] - Quote
I never seen a single piece of advertisement from CCP describing EVE as "hardcore" and "punishing to the lazy and dumb". This idea is being carried out by elitist people that think something different is always bad.
You didn't bring a single argument to prove that this idea would be bad for the game. It doesn't make it harder to lose a lot of money, it make it frustrating. and eventually people leave because of this. CCP made a lot of improvements to the interface to make it more appealing and warnings are a part of it. For example for a long time it was suggested to add a warning when you push the "reset quickbar" button, and it was finally implemented. On top of this warnings are not mandatory and eventually you can disable them if they really annoy you.
And your comparison with cars, wtf did you smoke before posting this ? It's literally comparing oranges to dogs. But maybe you want EVE to look something like this : https://i.imgur.com/WCiw6x4.jpg ? You need a time machine buddy |
Ren Nakami
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 06:43:01 -
[10] - Quote
I actually concur with op, CCP should at least give an option to setup warnings manually (for instance, if I want, I could make a warning everytime the price you are setting is below/above average at >10%) which is not a gameruining thing and would simly allow to enchance individual gaming experience. |
Iain Cariaba
2991
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 07:05:17 -
[11] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:I never seen a single piece of advertisement from CCP describing EVE as "hardcore" and "punishing to the lazy and dumb".
Advertised as such, no. However, it is the common consensus of gamers who know what's what, that this is true.
Aaron Honk wrote:You didn't bring a single argument to prove that this idea would be bad for the game. It doesn't make it harder to lose a lot of money, it make it frustrating. and eventually people leave because of this. CCP made a lot of improvements to the interface to make it more appealing and warnings are a part of it. For example for a long time it was suggested to add a warning when you push the "reset quickbar" button, and it was finally implemented. On top of this warnings are not mandatory and eventually you can disable them if they really annoy you.
You didn't bring a single argument that wasn't "OMAGERD!!!! CCP, save me from myself!!!"
Seriously, why is it such a difficult concept for people to understand? Double check your numbers before you hit OK. Anyone with a single iota of sense does this IRL all the time. You double check the totals at the store to make sure you didn't get overcharged. The store doesn't do this for you, it's up to you. You get statements so you can make sure there's no extra charges on your credit card. The bank doesn't do the comparison for you, it's up to you.
There doesn't need to be more warnings to keep you from ******* up. You just need to use your brain something more than filling the void between your ears.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 07:43:39 -
[12] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Aaron Honk wrote:I never seen a single piece of advertisement from CCP describing EVE as "hardcore" and "punishing to the lazy and dumb". Advertised as such, no. However, it is the common consensus of gamers who know what's what, that this is true. Aaron Honk wrote:You didn't bring a single argument to prove that this idea would be bad for the game. It doesn't make it harder to lose a lot of money, it make it frustrating. and eventually people leave because of this. CCP made a lot of improvements to the interface to make it more appealing and warnings are a part of it. For example for a long time it was suggested to add a warning when you push the "reset quickbar" button, and it was finally implemented. On top of this warnings are not mandatory and eventually you can disable them if they really annoy you. You didn't bring a single argument that wasn't "OMAGERD!!!! CCP, save me from myself!!!" Seriously, why is it such a difficult concept for people to understand? Double check your numbers before you hit OK. Anyone with a single iota of sense does this IRL all the time. You double check the totals at the store to make sure you didn't get overcharged. The store doesn't do this for you, it's up to you. You get statements so you can make sure there's no extra charges on your credit card. The bank doesn't do the comparison for you, it's up to you. There doesn't need to be more warnings to keep you from ******* up. You just need to use your brain something more than filling the void between your ears.
Woah you start to be aggressive here. My argument is that it would be a great gameplay improvement for everyone including trader but also regular people who get ripped of everyday and get frustrated. And eventually leave. If you think I am the only one to make a mistake, no, many other have as well. I didn't 'quit' for this much but i'm pretty sure other would. There is nothing to learn from that mistake. For instance, if there was a toggle able warning not on by default, after making this mistake you would learn that you should toggle the warning on so you don't make that mistake again.
Using your brain have nothing to do with it, this is another far fetched comparison like the other dude with his electric car.
Please say it "adding a warning to avoid selling below market price would not be a great gameplay improvement and would not help people" |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
759
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 09:48:49 -
[13] - Quote
You've played since 2005 and still unable to see the difference between 200.000.00 and 2.000.000.00? |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 10:01:20 -
[14] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:You've played since 2005 and still unable to see the difference between 200.000.00 and 2.000.000.00?
You seem to think that experience improve the amount of attention you pay to using the market but I think it's the exact opposite, the more you get accustomed to it and the faster you will use it, the greater the odds for a mistake to happen are.
|
Yochi Miyatsuda
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 11:33:10 -
[15] - Quote
No.
The game doesn't need any more hand-holding mechanics.
The sale order window clearly states your total expected income for the sale order in big green numbers below a complete breakdown of transaction tax and broker fee expenses for setting up that order. Read them before confirming your order.
If you hadn't tried to make a sale order in the hundreds of millions in just .5 of a second, you wouldn't have lost your ISK.
If someone PvP'ing makes a mistake and mis-clicks a module, they die.
If someone manufacturing makes a mistake and mis-clicks in the industry window, they waste either their time or their ISK.
If someone hauling makes a mistake and gets blown up with their valuable cargo, they lose significant ISK.
Selling in the market incurs no risk beyond what your own laziness and stupidity allow; you are entitled to nothing. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2028
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 11:47:40 -
[16] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:Celthric Kanerian wrote:You've played since 2005 and still unable to see the difference between 200.000.00 and 2.000.000.00? You seem to think that experience improve the amount of attention you pay to using the market but I think it's the exact opposite, the more you get accustomed to it and the faster you will use it, the greater the odds for a mistake to happen are.
Until CCP makes your market transactions idiot proof I'll recommend you slow and pay more attention. I totally agree though, the game should have installed safeguards so that players can 'win' no matter how careless or wreck less they are. I mean, who wants to think these days? |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 11:53:57 -
[17] - Quote
This is not a "hand-holding mechanics". This is an improvement of an already existing interface. It's simple to understand, If I try to place a Buy Order for 10x the price then it warns me : https://i.imgur.com/iXbzXKa.png
It have nothing to do with PVP, this have plenty of warnings (security level/warning at low sec gates)
It have nothing to do with manufacturing, I have no idea how you can miss click the manufacturing window, and I do plenty of it.
It have nothing to do with hauling, I have no idea how you make mistake hauling stuff. Please enlight me, if someone haul B worth of stuff in Niarja this is not a mistake, this is bad judgement, and if eventually you get destroyed here, then you can say your experience improved
Can someone here please tell me their real reason why they don't want this feature in ? And please stop with the "EVE is to ez" nonsense.
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Until CCP makes your market transactions idiot proof I'll recommend you slow and pay more attention. I totally agree though, the game should have installed safeguards so that players can 'win' no matter how careless or wreck less they are. I mean, who wants to think these days?
So far the only argument that have been proposed is that it would make the game too easy, it wouldn't in my opinion. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2029
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 12:00:59 -
[18] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:This is not a "hand-holding mechanics". This is an improvement of an already existing interface. It's simple to understand, If I try to place a Buy Order for 10x the price then it warns me : https://i.imgur.com/iXbzXKa.png
It have nothing to do with PVP, this have plenty of warnings (security level/warning at low sec gates) It have nothing to do with manufacturing, I have no idea how you can miss click the manufacturing window, and I do plenty of it. It have nothing to do with hauling, I have no idea how you make mistake hauling stuff. Please enlight me, if someone haul B worth of stuff in Niarja this is not a mistake, this is bad judgement, and if eventually you get destroyed here, then you can say your experience improved Can someone here please tell me their real reason why they don't want this feature in ? And please stop with the "EVE is to ez" nonsense. Serendipity Lost wrote:
Until CCP makes your market transactions idiot proof I'll recommend you slow and pay more attention. I totally agree though, the game should have installed safeguards so that players can 'win' no matter how careless or wreck less they are. I mean, who wants to think these days?
So far the only argument that have been proposed is that it would make the game too easy, it wouldn't in my opinion.
I'm agreeing with you. Eve needs lazy and careless people too. I just offered what I thought was good advice to hold you over until the market is dumbed down sufficiently to accommodate your play style. I'm only a 2006 play so I'm not quite there yet, but seriously, who wants to pay attention to their dragon horde of isk? |
Yochi Miyatsuda
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 12:36:30 -
[19] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:So far the only argument that have been proposed is that it would make the game too easy, it wouldn't in my opinion.
It's not a question of making Eve "too easy," it's about feature-creep.
Adding a selling price safety-net feature to the game now will mean that the argument will be open to add (for example) a buy price below-region-average restriction feature tomorrow. If the game mechanics dictate where a player's orders should "sit" according to an average, could the market truthfully be described as "player-driven?"
Aside from Eve being a massive single-instance universe, Eve's complex and player-driven market is arguably the core feature of the game. It's unique selling point.
And it's because Eve's market is structured around Capitalist ideals. Each player is a private entity working for profit. Your accidental under-pricing of your Skill Extractors has netted several players a significant profit. This is absolutely within the parameters of Eve's game design.
For example, if CCP wanted to cap potential losses from their players either making the wrong choice, or just plain bad luck, then there would be no loot drop mechanic on ship destruction. All your stuff would be safe in your inventory, waiting at your home station.
But there isn't such a safety-net.
Why? Because CCP has designed the Eve universe around a player-driven market. A market that exists within a bubble between ISK fountains (NPC bounties, mining, Project Discovery, etc.) and ISK sinks (the loot fairy, rigs & implants, NPC taxes, etc.).
If you want to, you can petition CCP. Other such incidents have seen players reimbursed. But at least try to understand why this is allowed to happen! |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 12:55:08 -
[20] - Quote
Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
It's not a question of making Eve "too easy," it's about feature-creep.
This feature already exist ingame it's nothing new, not a feature creep. It also does not go beyond the basic function of the product . Also I am troubled how you navigate from a warning interface to a buy below region average restriction ? You seem to compare a simple warning with something that would indeed affect gameplay. Adding a warning does not dictate how anyone is playing and it would not make eve less complex.
If I petition CCP I'm pretty sure they would tell me to post here. On top of that, having a ticket resolved under 2 week is impossible so it is just unnecessary to make ticket for this.
You still have not answered my question, how a simple feature such as a warning would affect your gameplay in a negative way ? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2032
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 13:02:10 -
[21] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
It's not a question of making Eve "too easy," it's about feature-creep.
This feature already exist ingame it's nothing new, not a feature creep. It also does not go beyond the basic function of the product . Also I am troubled how you navigate from a warning interface to a buy below region average restriction ? You seem to compare a simple warning with something that would indeed affect gameplay. Adding a warning does not dictate how anyone is playing and it would not make eve less complex. If I petition CCP I'm pretty sure they would tell me to post here. On top of that, having a ticket resolved under 2 week is impossible so it is just unnecessary to make ticket for this. You still have not answered my question, how a simple feature such as a warning would affect your gameplay in a negative way ?
OK, enough of this. How much did you lose? (I'm trying to put an isk value on 'CCP needs to fix this') |
elitatwo
Eve Minions
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1200
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 13:04:57 -
[22] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
It's not a question of making Eve "too easy," it's about feature-creep.
This feature already exist ingame it's nothing new, not a feature creep. It also does not go beyond the basic function of the product . Also I am troubled how you navigate from a warning interface to a buy below region average restriction ? You seem to compare a simple warning with something that would indeed affect gameplay. Adding a warning does not dictate how anyone is playing and it would not make eve less complex. If I petition CCP I'm pretty sure they would tell me to post here. On top of that, having a ticket resolved under 2 week is impossible so it is just unnecessary to make ticket for this. You still have not answered my question, how a simple feature such as a warning would affect your gameplay in a negative way ?
It is obvious, think of the noobs and children. Scammers and market bots need a little love. They always feel so left out as if they didn't belong.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 13:08:16 -
[23] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
OK, enough of this. How much did you lose? (I'm trying to put an isk value on 'CCP needs to fix this')
It doesn't matter how much I lost it was not that much anyway
elitatwo wrote:
It is obvious, think of the noobs and children. Scammers and market bots need a little love. They always feel so left out as if they didn't belong.
I did not mention noobs, or market bots or scammer ? if anything... market bots would not make mistakes like that, and scammers what do they have to do with all of this ? |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2821
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 13:26:23 -
[24] - Quote
Isn't there a display of the % of market price you are selling at in the window with red/green color depending if you are under/over? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2033
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 14:07:26 -
[25] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Isn't there a display of the % of market price you are selling at in the window with red/green color depending if you are under/over?
Yes, but it doesn't flash, beep or throw up a pop up window like it should. |
Iain Cariaba
2992
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 14:07:43 -
[26] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
It's not a question of making Eve "too easy," it's about feature-creep.
This feature already exist ingame it's nothing new, not a feature creep. It also does not go beyond the basic function of the product .
You realize you just gave the very definition of feature creep, right?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Iain Cariaba
2992
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 14:08:54 -
[27] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Isn't there a display of the % of market price you are selling at in the window with red/green color depending if you are under/over?
There's also the fact that the largest single thing on the sell order screen is the, comparatively, giant text telling you the grand total for the transaction.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2033
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 14:19:56 -
[28] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Isn't there a display of the % of market price you are selling at in the window with red/green color depending if you are under/over? There's also the fact that the largest single thing on the sell order screen is the, comparatively, giant text telling you the grand total for the transaction.
The game really needs the following:
"DANGER..... DANGER Will Robinson......"
Let me try this again
"DANGER..... DANGER Aaron Honk You're missing a zero"
This should play over and over again and block out the complete transaction button until the mistake is corrected. |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 14:39:15 -
[29] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Aaron Honk wrote:Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
It's not a question of making Eve "too easy," it's about feature-creep.
This feature already exist ingame it's nothing new, not a feature creep. It also does not go beyond the basic function of the product . You realize you just gave the very definition of feature creep, right?
That definition does not match the feature I propose. I checked before posting
Feature creep, creeping featurism or featuritis is the ongoing expansion or addition of new features in a product, such as in computer software. Extra features go beyond the basic function of the product and so can result in software bloat and over-complication rather than simple design.
Edit : apparently the rest of you already started doing personal attacks, I will ignore all of those because it's beyond the point |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
157
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 21:30:25 -
[30] - Quote
So now you want to get rid of a few decent ways to make quick isk scamming too?
No. I've never misread a price in four years. Just take the extra half a second to read. |
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