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The Great Zyd Depression(tm)

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Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.03.25 00:41:00 - [31] Hauling was/has been allways been easy to work around.... trust me, wasn't that, 2-3 hundred k's... came out in a lit 5 just as easy. course you kids do what i used to do with ease with a carrier these days, why the preception, but realy.. cccp flooded it, same way, same day.... never announced, those that know, have seen it before. ______
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:05:00 - [32] If the market were entirely player-dirven, then I would agree CCP should not interfere. However, it was CCP that magically created vast amounts of Crokite and Bistot overnight. But in any event, this entire discussion is moot. CCP added mining as an afterthought in this game, and has no plans to help miners, nor have they helped them in a great long while. The only thing we can do is adapt the always-changing rules of CCP's giant LAN party. My other account sold the Hulk, and is now training up drone skills, because ratting and complex-camping are the only options left to sustain the 0.0 life. Of course, CCP has nerfed ratting throughout the entire North, but I'll save that for another thread. _________________________________________________________
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:08:00 - [33] It's not just the drone regions, even though they drop disproportionate amounts of stuff that refines into high ends. It also has something to do with all the top 20-50 alliances dumping their high ends into market to get isk to fund their wars. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Drilla Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:15:00 - [34] The 3000+ zyd prices were laughable - they are now at their rightful place. Finally I have to say. Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:17:00 - [35] The best solution to the zyd price is to crash the nox and mega prices as well. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Galk Edited by: Galk on 25/03/2007 00:19:58 Edited by: Galk on 25/03/2007 00:19:07 Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker CCP should do NOTHING to "help" out this situation. Mainly because we have a player run echonomy, where everything adjusts itself. it is you sir that knows nothing. Zyd used to flutauate on regional conflict, times were tough.. northen wars... it passed up, steady in the south, adrressed a little. Back in 04 before you joined the game that was how it worked.... silly ill informed statement you make now, is just that... player maybe, twas ccps that directly introduced the steady flow that crushed the balance...... Edit* drunk, ignore spells... as it is, all the same, quit reading from the text book, know the score./ Lets not forget that supply of zyd had never really gone up while the playerbase and its needs have increased tenfold over the past few years. We honestly just need system-wide belts, lace various rocks through ought it, based on the sec status. You could, in theory, get some mega or zyd from 1.0 space, but it'd be so minuscule you'd be better off not spending all that time finding it. Then in 0.0 space, you'd just move along the belt from grid to grid and suck suck suck. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Raketefrau Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle What you're alluding it is akin to Ford or GM petitioning world's governments to somehow restore their profit margins simply because less people are buying SUVs & 4 wheel drives. I agree with your point, but Ford, GM, Chrysler, all of them do petition the government to restore profitability. They use lobbyists, lawyers, campaign donations, and even regular petitions. The Zyd drop is from "too much" zyd coming out of the new regions. The devs don't see it as an issue. Nothing to see here. Please move along. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Valorem ([email protected])
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 02:25:00 - [38] Edited by: Patch86 on 25/03/2007 02:21:49 If the Devs do do anything, it'll be in about a year from now if / when they reshuffle spawn quantities to make sure too much of the Uber Valuable stuff isn't spawning in the wrong places. Don't think it's happened yet though, and I can't imagine it ever happening in the future. EVE's economy is so self regulating, most things sort themselves out one way or another. Any which way, just mine something else and be happy EDIT: OMG Rake, I think I'm stalking you now........ --------
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.03.25 02:27:00 - [39] See if you guys can make some sense out of these graphs: All Regions Without The Forge The volume shown in this graph comes from the table in the Market History tab. This is the actual amount of zydrine that changed hands on each of those days. This is NOT based off of the market orders export. I made two versions, one containing all the regions I had data for, and the other without the forge because it skews the scale quite a bit. This data has a small error ratio but I don't really think it shows here. This is one of the many uses for the market data that I collected. It looks to me like a lot of people were stock piling zydrine for the upcoming content release, but it back fired on them because the new regions crank out so much. This caused a panic and every one dumped their hoards.
Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.03.25 03:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Arii Smith on 25/03/2007 03:12:06 I like the nice prices, ravens got cheaper.
Mar Idoun Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2007.03.25 03:49:00 - [41] More zyd was added by virtue of new regions being added. I would bet that if the roid spawns weren't b0rked then prices for all high ends would drop even more. It just so happens that zyd is the only worthwhile thing that drops in any kind of bulk. Prices will never return to previous heights, unless of course they close the new regions.
fugazii Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.03.25 05:12:00 - [42] t1 crap should be cheap. theres no reason ship and mod prices should still be expensive after over 3yrs of them being in the game(yes i know prices went +/- generally the same however). you mention miners living off crokite, if all they want to do is mine, what does it matter the price of what they mine is? not like theyre going out and losing ships all that often. besides, its hardly fair to blame only the drone regions, sure theres alot coming from those places, but hasnt it ever occured to anyone that there is the largest war in eves history being waged right now that involves every major alliance in this game? billions is being lost everyday, which means all these alliances are dumping large amounts of zyd onto the market. isnt it a bit peculiar that mega hasnt lost alot of its value whereas zyd has? coincides with the fact that theres no arkonor in the north but theres crokite everywhere.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.03.25 07:19:00 - [43] we would get closer to a market that was less depressed if there was more lowends in the drone regions, oddly enough. since its so hard to actually Build anything out there from lack of trit and basics, colonists have to dump almost All of their highends out in empire just to buy tritanium and such to compress and ship home. the depression also has the effect that the "bounties" of sellable/usable mineral rewards in the drone regions are more nerfed each day as their worth drops. if there was a reliable new drone compound that efficiently dropped nice compressed amounts of trit it would go a long way to fixing this. that, or a heavy rebalance of drone loot drops to emphasise the trit-rich drops that already happen. and drone carrier spawns! heck, make them half as big as people can expect in other areas, just as long as some lows are becoming available. when more of the minerals in the new regions have a chance to actually be Made into something, they can stick around as ships and ammo and modules to be used, pulling the high end market out of the nosedive.
Cruel Fox Singulerity Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.25 07:46:00 - [44] Not onlly new region is reason for drop of price; WARP to 0!!! Just remember how it was flying with hawler with 500K of zydrin in empire befoure Kali!!!
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.03.25 08:04:00 - [45] It is true that the prices of zyd have dropped short term. Indeed once the new regions belts are fixed most if not all of the minerals may suffer a short term price drop. The rate of growth has slowed for the game in the last 6 months, compared to the previous 6 months. However the game is still growing. At some point the game population will once again catch up with the available resources, we might be a year or two from that situation. So yes for now their will be a depression on market prices, indeed the fact they only fixed one region and not the others in the new areas might be CCP trying to mitigate the effect of the depression. In the long term we will eventually return to the glory days, provided the population continues to grow. If your mining Zydrine right now, no matter where, save half of it back and sell only half of what you mine. That would in time raise the prices and allow you to make more isks. Same with Morphite, there seems to have been a major price drop in it. Stockpile it, don't sell all you mine. Once invention is in full swing and more are trying to build t2 items Morphite will raise in price naturally, its gonna take 6 months or so more I believe. Note also that while the high ends have dropped in price, as another pointed out the low ends have raised tremendously in price. Tritanium, Pyerite and Mexallon are all double their prices 6 months ago. Now some of this price has its basis in the war too. Lots of capital ships are being destroyed, many alliances do not have the mining capacity alone to keep up with their needs. Before they might have sold extra on the markets, now they have to buy from the market running up the price. Its seldom a week goes by without a dozen capitals being destroyed anymore. Thus the greatest effect on the market is the New Eden War not just the opening of the new areas. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.03.25 11:09:00 - [46] decline - ok but this downward slope was a bit steep... a review of the compounds couldn't hurt; ore has at least a hint of a balanced size vs value statistic. the plush compound with it 1m¦ and ~30k isk of value simply screwed all 'traditional' logistics philosophies
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.25 11:25:00 - [47] The only comment Im going to bother posting here (I live in the new regions- I know what its like) is that im surprised that ccp went this way with the drone loot. While the market has balanced out and does not need external pressure to change it for the sake of "demand/supply" or "Not fair noooose!111!11" I do think it is contridictory to what ccp's goal was by introducing the new regions in the first place. I thought the idea was to get people out of empire space and start utilising 0.0 and low sec more. Now with the drop in high and mid minerals there is little reason to mine in 0.0 over empire (risk vs reward) and even less to do anything in low sec. What we have is an even large polarisation of "carebears" sticking to empire mining trit and "pvpers" staying out in 0.0 npcing to make a living. I think the issue really is balance. Nerfing mission running payouts marginally and definately reducing the amount of loot drops in npc's and mission running would go a long way to restoring "balance". Im sure alot of pvpers and mission runners would disagree however as they want cheap ships and easy money. I think the miners are getting a raw deal tbh. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 07/01/2007 14:24:00 Originally by: Sonos SAGD he is laying guys The trouble a misplaced vowel can get you into...
Severa Crest Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.25 11:36:00 - [48] If you want your zyd prices to go up, you need to reduce the flow of zyd onto the market. Buy up all the cheap zyd on the market, and disrupt others mining ops/npc'ing in drone regions. It would take a hell of an effort, but entertaining, and interesting to see if it could be done.
Sensor Error 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.25 11:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Neveren stuff first and foremost, NO. Eve's market is a very beautiful thing. It is the best market system of any MMO I've ever played. It is a 100% (well, 95% cos of npc buy/sell stuff) dynamicly player driven market. The REASON that zydrine is so low is because of a very very high supply, without a matching rise in demand. The reason it is high is because of a number of reasons, two of which commonly bounded about whenever this issue comes up: 1) The drone regions People are brining a lot of the high end minerals recovered from the drone regions down to empire to sell. Drones don't give any kind of drop (as far as I know) other than the compounds. So yeah, there is a higher proportion than of other regions, but there are a heck of a lot more other regions 2) Eve-War-1. At the moment we are seeing one of the largest conflicts every held in EVE with the whole everyone and his Mum vs BoB and his brothers son thing. A lot of the parties involved liquidated their long term storages of high ends to get a much needed cash injection... In short, fair enough, 1) possibly needs addressing by CCP, but, mostly, the market system is fine. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.03.25 12:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Neveren I would first and formost like to thanks DS a popular forum who..err poster for quoting the phrase The great zyd depression.. Now .. has anyone else noticed the HUGE and by HUGE i mean HUGE Decline in zyd prices?... yes im sure you have.. And im sure you and people you know can make up 10 reasons for them.. fact is miners who lived off crokite.. are hurting. not cranking that 65 mill an hour like the old days .. =( Anyways, Figured id make a thread about it for discussion as to what CCP should do to help remedy the situation given, somthing ingame has had to drasticly change in order for this to occur, and honistly it should be remedied to bring the market back in line with its former self. OMG HI NAVERIN! POETRY TIME! the long awaited sequel to "the correct dread", by jamesw Theres nothing can hide that I love to mine "Zyd" but I've recently eyed that its prices do slide I've thought that I might just give up and not fight, but its really not right to change from crokite In just one mining session my profits have lessened and it needs prompt addressin this "Great Zyd Depression" PLEASE HELP POOR NAVERIN GET BACK TO 65 MIL AN HOUR! END THIS TRAVESTY CCP -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Natalia Fachiri Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.03.25 12:22:00 - [51] None of youshoudl complain about the market changing because the new regions were added. In real life, markets change all the time due to new and unforseeable circumstances. Adapt or see your profits melt away. Oil would be a mostly useless ressource today, if we had not invented a use for it. So should we roll back now, ban the intenral combustion engine, so that horse breeders and carridge makers dont loose their income? Simplified I know, but you get what I mean hopefully. Now, drone regions may need a change. I cant say for sure since I cant live there, but from what I know it seems that way. However the change should not come to save your mode of operation, it should come to remove bugs and make the regions more liveable.
Liliane Woodhead	Posted - 2007.03.25 12:28:00 - [52] There is also a heavy inflation in whining. In the early days of eve you got 1 whiner for 2 isk. And now ? There are so many in the universe ... 20 for my 2 isk ( and one free when you buy 40 ... ). Dreadfully
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.25 12:32:00 - [53] Originally by: Natalia Fachiri ...Stuff... The reason behind all this whine is simply, because with the addition of the new regions there is no point in mining for isk by mining crokite, that is supposed to be valuable, in all of 0.0. It's not effective use of time. The time it takes to set up a mining op, hauling and all is better spent mining for mexallon in empire. Only Arkonor is worth the time these days. I found a hidden bistot belt the other day with 45 bistot rocks. A year before, I would have been very excited about it, but nowdays, it's worth about 440M and it takes 6-8+ characters to mine and haul the thing and at least 3-4h, so the profit per person involved is less than ratting for cruiser spawns and selling the loot. Ratting in -0.1, that is. It's redicilous. The only reason to mine really is to produce for 0.0 markets and even then you are just reducing your own costs for the production and living off the surplus. Actually the only sensible thing would propably be to push to the drone regions and either take over and rat there or just disrupt the economy enough to lower the supply of zyd there. Ok, graz to CCP for creating pressure for such wars, but still... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.25 12:40:00 - [54] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 25/03/2007 12:40:19 Originally by: hired goon Oh god you silly fools. This is no act of a player run economy. This particular economy was touched by the hand of god who decided to re-balance the market. As far as I know - in real life - god doesn't devinely intervene with the stock market while giggling to himself. Quoted for truth. The fact is, however, the market will stabilise. Miners will move to other ores, of course the added supply of these further lower prices. At this point a lot of miners will simply stop mining and switch to ratting / mission running for their isk, a lot already have since mining has become far less profitable than ratting in some areas. Prices will go back up a little but a large number of people will be cut off from doing what they wanted (and trained) to do... mine. [EDIT: P.S. where in the galaxy did you pluck 65mill an hour from? Mining high quantity megacyte bearing ores bears around 50-55mill an hour, with max skills, kit, implants, gang-bonuses, etc. Of course that doesn't take haulage or anything else into account, just pure mining time. P.P.S. If a large portion of miners (many of whom are isk crazy) switch to ratting won't the isk fountain be erupting a little more? Doesn't this kinda backfire on the whole idea of the drone region rats not having bounties?
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.25 13:05:00 - [55] Is it just me or have the knock-on effects of miners switching ores already started effecting the market. I'm seeing an almost universal drop in mineral prices at the market hubs with megacyte being the only exception. This is from comparing prices of two-weeks ago with the prices today so it may just be an anomaly. That said it seems even tritanium and pyerite have reversed their slow climb.
Red Crown Kudzu Collective	Posted - 2007.03.25 13:37:00 - [56] Ladies and Gents, I am responsible for this! Yes, I did it, and I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling forum warriors. Erm, anyway. Myself being a Drone Ratter, I noticed a few things. When I first went to the drone regions, it was maddingly profitable. This was 7-8 weeks ago. A can-load of drone compounds weighed in at around 75M ISK. And now. Let me remind you all that prices on all high end minerals have dropped sharply. Prime example - Zydrine, down 50-70%, Nocxium, down 30-40%, Megacyte down 25%, Isogen, down 10%. Drone Ratting has caused prices to absolutly tank in just the past 2 months. I think its a necessary evil however. Ship prices are also lowering, which is always nice. "EVE is the worst MMORPG. Except for all the other ones." [KUDZU] = Coalition.
Josh Causto Gallente Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.25 13:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Daniella Althera Zydrine is currently going for 1300isk/unit in where I am. Compared to the 4300isk/unit from last fall I find this annoying. Yes, thats what we call a free market, get over it.
Neveren Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 17:22:00 - [58] JamesW.... You sir are my hero.. thank you =) I can always count on getting owned on the forums by you lol STC recruiting!
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2007.03.25 18:00:00 - [59] Originally by: Natalia Fachiri None of youshoudl complain about the market changing because the new regions were added. In real life,(...) Ok, in real life, if the miners would find their income lowered by 70%, the Parliament be put on fire and President/PM would have to flee the country:P Numerous cases from numerous countries show that coal miners are most 'persuasive' industry group, the only one which can make governments ** their pants. In short, you can azz-***teachers, medical professionals, security services and even the army, but in real life you do _not_ touch the miners. (Thatcher being the notable eception, but just see how much effort it took her to put things under control).
Breyghun Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.03.25 18:26:00 - [60] Reasons that Zyd has deflated lately; 1. It's easier to get stuff from 0.0 to Empire (Carriers/warp to 0). 2. More people live in 0.0 these days (more people = more miners). 3. The gates to drone Regions opened (Game event, role play etc . Live with it) 4. Outposts have sprung up everywhere and tend to be in mineral rich areas (easier to mine). The EvE economy will continue to fluctuate as fundamental changes continue to be introduced (ie. Exploration/Invention) and the trick will be to spot how this will impact on primary resources (moon produce/minerals etc). schlepp, schlock, schmaltz, scmooze, ****** are all the words you need in life.*

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