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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.02.27 16:18:00 -
[31]
Originally by: BSAC Manager So you confess to be a scam artist. What makes you any better than the guy you scam?
You must be the first scammer to be applauded.
My feelings are a bit mixed, but I think I can sum them up as: If person A is ACTIVELY trying to scam person B, and person B has committed no wrong, person B may then righteously scam person A.
Note the important conditions in that statement. As all of them were satisfied in this instance, I can morally and ethically rofl at the idiot scammer.
That said, I'm still a little confused as to why the OP felt the need to protect the identity of his victim.
MP
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TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs. |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.02.27 16:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Checkher You sir must be the alt of the scammer he caught!
BSAC is not a scammer. He's just a concerned citizen bringing up a valid point, even though I disagree with it.
MP
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TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs. |
Kehmor
Caldari PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.27 16:26:00 -
[33]
the sad thing is scammers read this forum, i doubt you will get another on falling for this. kudos though.
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Linerra Tedora
Amarr The Older Clones
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Posted - 2007.02.27 16:26:00 -
[34]
great story... *SS* love it... EvE-CCG Spoiler Database |
Wesley Baird
Ever Flow FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 16:31:00 -
[35]
Well done!
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Ilea Celentay
Veiled Justice
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Posted - 2007.02.27 16:48:00 -
[36]
Excellent, and well done.
Faction Ship Info || Rig Factory |
Virusuk
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:04:00 -
[37]
I'm going to have a cup of tea now. *******************************************
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Lady Kinla
World Order The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:25:00 -
[38]
Ulicese indead. ---------------------------
"Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No ****heads this is my text not yours!" Already disobeyed... W00t! I am no longer a !. |
Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ulrich Sternaxe marvellous, truly marvellous!!!
oh, and a little sidenote to anyone from CCP reading this topic: do you notice the amount of VERY positive and enthousiastic responses to this topic and the credit this guy is receiving? You could be the ones that receive all that credit for every scammer you take out (read IP ban, scamming by abusing game mechanics should be illegal), the community will be extremely grateful I would guess, just a little tip on further increasing your customer service ;)
A large, and might I add non-scammer portion of "the community" would not be "exremely grateful".
Good job to the OP though. Ace! - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
xDow
Amarr Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.28 05:41:00 -
[40]
Haha! Pure win --- Signature is only 10 bytes |
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Nero Ya'ng
Caldari YaFa Empires
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Posted - 2007.02.28 13:14:00 -
[41]
lol
very nice
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Nama Saya
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Posted - 2007.02.28 13:49:00 -
[42]
/me bowes to Ulecese
Well done!!!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe
Albert Einstein |
Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 14:36:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ulrich Sternaxe marvellous, truly marvellous!!!
oh, and a little sidenote to anyone from CCP reading this topic: do you notice the amount of VERY positive and enthousiastic responses to this topic and the credit this guy is receiving? You could be the ones that receive all that credit for every scammer you take out (read IP ban, scamming by abusing game mechanics should be illegal), the community will be extremely grateful I would guess, just a little tip on further increasing your customer service ;)
Um, no.
A player owning a scammer like this is brilliant; the OP used the exact same freedoms to scam that a scammer uses. That's EVE. CCP give us the tools to enforce the laws; it's not up to them to do it for us.
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Ulecese
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Posted - 2007.02.28 14:48:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Originally by: BSAC Manager So you confess to be a scam artist. What makes you any better than the guy you scam?
You must be the first scammer to be applauded.
My feelings are a bit mixed, but I think I can sum them up as: If person A is ACTIVELY trying to scam person B, and person B has committed no wrong, person B may then righteously scam person A.
Note the important conditions in that statement. As all of them were satisfied in this instance, I can morally and ethically rofl at the idiot scammer.
That said, I'm still a little confused as to why the OP felt the need to protect the identity of his victim.
MP
My decision to not reveal the identity of the scammer was simply because I am not a petty man. I feel he learned his lesson, and will stop scamming in the future since he was on the recieving end. No feeling is worse in EVE than being scammed and unable to do a damn thing about it. His loss of 98m isk was enough punishment, and since most 'oppertunist' scammers use alts, it would make little impact revealing who he was.
Besides, I do hope that these contract scammers have read this thread aswell as their potential victims. It may deter them from attempting it in the future since the end result for them is now more likely to be either a waste of time, or getting scammed themselves.
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2007.02.28 15:00:00 -
[45]
You just earned a Lottery Ticket to WIN EVE - Awesome finesse!!
People exploiting other peoples failing knowledge of how contracts work (in a game with very limited game play guidance) deserves to get counter-scammed for all their isk and some more they have borrowed from close friends!!
If I wasn't seriously broke and you hadn't actually got isk already I'd send you a symbolic amount... Truly hillarious reading. Thx!!
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.02.28 15:14:00 -
[46]
Awesome, simply awesome
Anyways, IBTL |
Ulrich Sternaxe
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Posted - 2007.02.28 15:32:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Zhaine
A large, and might I add non-scammer portion of "the community" would not be "exremely grateful".
Do you mean the scammers would not be grateful? I don't quite understand your point, sorry. I would guess the non-scammer portion of the community WILL be grateful for any scammer being banned from the game.
Originally by: Malcanis
Um, no.
A player owning a scammer like this is brilliant; the OP used the exact same freedoms to scam that a scammer uses. That's EVE. CCP give us the tools to enforce the laws; it's not up to them to do it for us.
I think cheating has become so normal and common in this game that everyone started to call it scamming and accepted is as part of the game, like it was something like piracy and ransoming.
Well to me as a 3-month old noob there's a big difference, I consider it cheating. I have no problem with piracy which is definitely a part of the game. Consider the following, if scamming wasn't cheating, why would there be special CCP petition rules for people being scammed with GTC's? Are GTC any different then BPO's or ships, or whatever? The only reason there aren't any CCP rules for other scams is because it's just too much for CCP to handle. They certainly didn't program this game (and the new contract system) so that players would have the tools to scam eachother, that's why they keep trying to remove/fix possible scam tools (or law-enforcing tools as you like to call them). If it wasn't CCP's intention to give us tools to scam, then why as a player should you destroy their game and the game experience they try to create for their players for your own personal pleasure?
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Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 15:59:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ulrich Sternaxe Edited by: Ulrich Sternaxe on 28/02/2007 15:39:06
Originally by: Zhaine
A large, and might I add non-scammer portion of "the community" would not be "exremely grateful".
Do you mean the scammers would not be grateful? I don't quite understand your point, sorry. I would guess the non-scammer portion of the community WILL be grateful for any scammer being banned from the game.
Originally by: Malcanis
Um, no.
A player owning a scammer like this is brilliant; the OP used the exact same freedoms to scam that a scammer uses. That's EVE. CCP give us the tools to enforce the laws; it's not up to them to do it for us.
I think cheating has become so normal and common in this game that everyone started to call it scamming and accepted is as part of the game, like it was something like piracy and ransoming (which IS a part of the game).
Well to me as a 3-month old noob there's a big difference, I consider it cheating. A lot of players in many different multiplayer games always seem to forget that little rule that "abusing" game mechanics for your own gain is cheating. What exactly is considered "abusing" is always a difficult discussion point. But as a rule you should always consider what is the intention of the developers with a certain game mechanic, if you use the game mechanic for that purpose, then there can't be a problem.
Consider the following, if scamming wasn't cheating, why would there be special CCP petition rules for people being scammed with GTC's? Are GTC any different then BPO's or ships, or whatever? The only reason there aren't any CCP rules for other scams is because it's just too much for CCP to handle. They certainly didn't program this game (and the new contract system) so that players would have the tools to scam eachother, that's why they keep trying to remove/fix possible scam tools (or law-enforcing tools as you like to call them). If it wasn't CCP's intention to give us tools to scam, then why as a player should you destroy their game and the game experience they try to create for their players for your own personal pleasure?
I'm afraid you're completely wrong about almost everything in your post. I'd go through it detail, but I'm busy and i suspect it would be wasted effort. Suffice it say that you just don't *get* EVE.
Oh and BTW the devs most certainly did mean to allow the potential for in-game scamming
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Guizzy
Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.28 19:46:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Guizzy on 28/02/2007 19:42:44 Ulrich, the thing about this is that the game was not made for everyone to win without effort. There are losers and winners in EVE. And scamming is one part of that game. The scam involved here is not someone that used some magic hacking to remove ISK from a player's wallet and put it in his; he used in-game methods, against someone that COULD HAVE DONE (and in this case, did) something to avoid being scammed.
This scammer is not a hacker, or not even abusing game mechanics. He just lied. Lying is a part of the game. All the exciting spying and sabotage going on with the alliances relies on lying as well.
It's not an ethical practice, and in most real-life, lawful societies, such scams would probably be punished by the judiciary system. But the EVE universe portrays a far more lenient system, a less restrictive one with a cutthroat market, where even pirating and murder is not punished with even a fraction of the zeal we see in our world and where electronic contracts are absolutely binding, no matter if they were made with dishonest intentions.
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Nero Scuro
Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.28 20:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Guizzy Edited by: Guizzy on 28/02/2007 19:42:44 Ulrich, the thing about this is that the game was not made for everyone to win without effort. There are losers and winners in EVE. And scamming is one part of that game. The scam involved here is not someone that used some magic hacking to remove ISK from a player's wallet and put it in his; he used in-game methods, against someone that COULD HAVE DONE (and in this case, did) something to avoid being scammed.
This scammer is not a hacker, or not even abusing game mechanics. He just lied. Lying is a part of the game. All the exciting spying and sabotage going on with the alliances relies on lying as well.
It's not an ethical practice, and in most real-life, lawful societies, such scams would probably be punished by the judiciary system. But the EVE universe portrays a far more lenient system, a less restrictive one with a cutthroat market, where even pirating and murder is not punished with even a fraction of the zeal we see in our world and where electronic contracts are absolutely binding, no matter if they were made with dishonest intentions.
I felt that needed to be bolded for emphasis.
It's not exploiting game mechanics because that would be called *drum roll* exploiting game mechanics, which is bannable.
Scammers are only annoying because of their spamming of useless offers, aside from that it's just natural selection if you get scammed. If you have more brain cells than ****** had ********* you should never get scammed in EVE, it's all avoidable. ___
"have u seen my employ history? u better go as i have more friends in thisgame then in my real life" |
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Dregann
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2007.02.28 20:32:00 -
[51]
Scamming a Scammer 4tw
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Leilani Solaris
Gallente 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.28 21:46:00 -
[52]
rofl Awesome.
Outbreak Killboard |
Ulrich Sternaxe
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Posted - 2007.03.01 10:19:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Ulrich Sternaxe on 01/03/2007 10:19:23
Originally by: Guizzy Ulrich, the thing about this is that the game was not made for everyone to win without effort. There are losers and winners in EVE. And scamming is one part of that game. The scam involved here is not someone that used some magic hacking to remove ISK from a player's wallet and put it in his; he used in-game methods, against someone that COULD HAVE DONE (and in this case, did) something to avoid being scammed.
I'm not sure what being able to avoid scams has to do with whether or not this scam is an abuse of game mechanics or not. And I do admit that he used in-game methods, the question is whether he used in-game methods "in such a way as they were not intended". So did CCP make the contract system so it could be used by scammers in this way (regardless of whether it's stupid to fall for a trick like this or not) and was it intended that players could try to fool other players in this way? The answer could be yes of course...
Quote: This scammer is not a hacker, or not even abusing game mechanics. He just lied. Lying is a part of the game. All the exciting spying and sabotage going on with the alliances relies on lying as well.
This is a very good point, lying is indeed part of the game, no doubt about that. It's a very thin line though between merely deceiving another player to steal valuables or information from them while using ingame mechanics and using ingame mechanics in a way it was not intended.
However, because of your arguments I'm somewhat more convinced that this scam might be a correct way to use the contract system in the way it was intended, but I still think it can be interpreted either way. I guess it all depends on how CCP intended for the contract system to be used, whether it's used by scammers, thieves, spies or businessmen. Only CCP can answer that question (and they would probably have to consider every situation/scam for itself).
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2007.03.01 10:59:00 -
[54]
Getting people to pay overprice for goods or selling cheap - giving you isk for false ingame services (incl. to stop wars and the like) = scamming Getting people to lose isk over complicated and rather newly implemented game functions which are hard to understand for most people = Cheating
Though I don't care much as I seem to use the contracts pretty fine and definately wouldn't fall for the auction trick (however I would easily go for a lot of other tricks this particular scam made a bell ring the instant I heard it)
I like what the OP did and when the contracts have been adjusted properly in a not too distant future we can start talking about scammers instead of cheaters.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:16:00 -
[55]
Good job dude, nice to see someone think fast on there feet like that <3
BoB vs the coalition of family value's |
General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.03.01 12:11:00 -
[56]
GJ
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ZuN3
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.01 12:20:00 -
[57]
Hahahahah. Nice one!
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WrathchildeVOTF
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Posted - 2007.03.01 12:46:00 -
[58]
I can only see one thing that would have made this return-scam better, and that would have been selling him an old 0-run BPC (Not sure if CCP ever did a Db pass to clear them all out, but BPC's used to remain with 0-run instead of vanishing. Very annoying at the time, and it led to scams. It would have been poetic to pull one out for this, though)
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Alcatraz Jones
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Posted - 2007.03.01 16:47:00 -
[59]
Awesome, grats. ========= 'Hi Guy, You are offering a bookmark of a station for 7 mil!!! Money back !! Johnny' Will customers ever be happy ? |
Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.03.02 09:47:00 -
[60]
what a great fit of laughter I just had....many thnx
my thoughts and ideas represent your corp
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