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Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
120
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Posted - 2016.05.19 16:32:14 -
[1] - Quote
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/
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Pix Severus
Empty You
4427
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Posted - 2016.05.19 16:35:14 -
[2] - Quote
Inb4 rabble.
-ì-ä-à -£-à+¦-äGêâ-Ç
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Yarosara Ruil
322
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Posted - 2016.05.19 16:37:49 -
[3] - Quote
Rabble rabble.
I kinda like this feature. |
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Absolute Massive Destruction
Test Alliance Please Ignore
40
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Posted - 2016.05.19 16:43:17 -
[4] - Quote
Free sp for being active? I like it too, I think someone calculated it to be an extra 3 mil sp if you do it the entire year, personally will use it on small utility skills I've yet to train |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7717
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Posted - 2016.05.19 16:49:40 -
[5] - Quote
160000 Bonus SP to sell every day? Yes please!
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1807
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Posted - 2016.05.19 17:08:15 -
[6] - Quote
Idiocy
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
392
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Posted - 2016.05.19 17:48:45 -
[7] - Quote
CCP have obviously not listened to the reasons why this is a bad idea, and are going full fled idiocy with no brakes.
No real response from CCP regarding the issues with it. They obviously do not give a rats arse. This is what they said in their skill injector blog 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Shows you what the word of CCP is worth really when less than a year later they change their minds.
Not much reason for a CSM if this is the response from CCP. Thanks for not listening CCP.
Bring back Unifex. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
10810
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Posted - 2016.05.19 17:52:50 -
[8] - Quote
Basic, rough and unrefined. I would even say primitive.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Planetary Interaction 2.1
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Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7728
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Posted - 2016.05.19 17:58:54 -
[9] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:CCP have obviously not listened to the reasons why this is a bad idea, and are going full fled idiocy with no brakes.
No real response from CCP regarding the issues with it. They obviously do not give a rats arse. This is what they said in their skill injector blog 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Shows you what the word of CCP is worth really when less than a year later they change their minds.
Not much reason for a CSM if this is the response from CCP. Thanks for not listening CCP.
Bring back Unifex. Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it.
I give it two thumbs up!
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Vollhov Jr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:07:09 -
[10] - Quote
Coming soon
Red Allince.
Red Phoenix The Symbol of Revival.
The elder brother: Vollhov
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2895
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:11:43 -
[11] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:CCP have obviously not listened to the reasons why this is a bad idea, and are going full fled idiocy with no brakes.
No real response from CCP regarding the issues with it. They obviously do not give a rats arse. This is what they said in their skill injector blog 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Shows you what the word of CCP is worth really when less than a year later they change their minds.
Not much reason for a CSM if this is the response from CCP. Thanks for not listening CCP.
Bring back Unifex. Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it. I give it two thumbs up!
its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
394
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:14:24 -
[12] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:]Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it.
I give it two thumbs up!
People that don't hate it should and/or have been led to believe that this kind of gameplay is anything but detrimental to the fundamental aspect of eve as was intended. The sandbox and the premise of not having goals thrust upon the person.
CCP's holier than thou attitude of game design because they have had a monopoly on sandbox entertainment for some time is leading them down the path of conformity.
A list of why Recurring Opportunities are bad
1. This breaks the sandbox. Instead of setting your own goals this is about a time based CCP set goal. It wowifies eve using EA level mechanics which have already been proved to be detrimental to other games.
2. It proves that CCP are dishonest when in the skill injector blog they say 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' It proves that CCP are no longer the same developers that sang HTFU.
3. Eve is supposed to be hard. The original idea of eve being hard is undercut when you add easy dailies.
4. Driving new players into mind-numbing pve options in a pvp game will not convince them to stay.
5. SP are in my opinion supposed to be a unique commodity like gold, you can make money but new gold is impossible.
Skill extractors take from an already existing pool, they evaporate some SP and the rest is in the injector. This is good.
The new way is SP faucets in the form of dailies, yay!
6. It damages other peoples playstyles if they for example choose to be pacifist. Instead of playing their way, they are being driven towards the rocky shore of daily tasks.
7. It actively discriminates against time limited players. If you only have 2 hours a week people who have more can not only always have more SP than you but also a part of your precious 2 hours are spent doing something mind numbing instead of something exciting, something YOU would like to do instead of playing catch up.
8. It hurts mission running in certain areas regarding standings, if for example you are doing Serpentis missions, if you kill a Serpentis npc to get your SP you lower your faction standing with Serpentis which can hurt what missions you can do. If you are stuck in a region with only Serpentis npcs, what can you do in order not to hurt your standings?
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2895
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:23:23 -
[13] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:It wowifies eve using EA level mechanics
its not even good enough to be an EA mechanic, this was thought up at 4:55pm on friday when everyone was on the way to the pub, atleast ea think about how to drone you out with tedious tasks
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
6089
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:28:35 -
[14] - Quote
"... millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened." |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7730
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:37:04 -
[15] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle Not really, it's shooting a rat which most playstyles either will do naturally or can do with ease. I mean if you're a PvPer all you have to do is swoop into a belt, volley one rat and you're done. And remember this is just the first one which puts the system in place. Going forward there will be more with different rewards for different tasks. I imagine PvP tasks will be in there in the future too, as will mining and industrial tasks. I believe the reason a rat being killed was chosen is that it's readily available to the widest audience and allows them to build the basic system so it can be extended and balanced at a later date.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:41:55 -
[16] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:]Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it.
I give it two thumbs up! People that don't hate it should and/or have been led to believe that this kind of gameplay is anything but detrimental to the fundamental aspect of eve as was intended. The sandbox and the premise of not having goals thrust upon the person. CCP's holier than thou attitude of game design because they have had a monopoly on sandbox entertainment for some time is leading them down the path of conformity. A list of why Recurring Opportunities are bad 1. This breaks the sandbox. Instead of setting your own goals this is about a time based CCP set goal. It wowifies eve using EA level mechanics which have already been proved to be detrimental to other games. 2. It proves that CCP are dishonest when in the skill injector blog they say 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' It proves that CCP are no longer the same developers that sang HTFU. 3. Eve is supposed to be hard. The original idea of eve being hard is undercut when you add easy dailies. 4. Driving new players into mind-numbing pve options in a pvp game will not convince them to stay. 5. SP are in my opinion supposed to be a unique commodity like gold, you can make money but new gold is impossible. Skill extractors take from an already existing pool, they evaporate some SP and the rest is in the injector. This is good. The new way is SP faucets in the form of dailies, yay! 6. It damages other peoples playstyles if they for example choose to be pacifist. Instead of playing their way, they are being driven towards the rocky shore of daily tasks. 7. It actively discriminates against time limited players. If you only have 2 hours a week people who have more can not only always have more SP than you but also a part of your precious 2 hours are spent doing something mind numbing instead of something exciting, something YOU would like to do instead of playing catch up. 8. It hurts mission running in certain areas regarding standings, if for example you are doing Serpentis missions, if you kill a Serpentis npc to get your SP you lower your faction standing with Serpentis which can hurt what missions you can do. If you are stuck in a region with only Serpentis npcs, what can you do in order not to hurt your standings?
It is "KIll 1 NPC ", what is the time needed? 5 minutes. That make your point 1, 4 ,6,7 and 8 irrelevant or false.
Point 2 . At the time it was true. Now CCP ahs decided to change that. "How sad."
Point 3. LOL. So you think that hard is the same as "LP are accrued at specific rates". What is hard is knowing what you should do with your LP.
Point 5. We make more SP every day we are subbed, so your analogy don't work.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2897
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:51:54 -
[17] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle Not really, it's shooting a rat which most playstyles either will do naturally or can do with ease. I mean if you're a PvPer all you have to do is swoop into a belt, volley one rat and you're done. And remember this is just the first one which puts the system in place. Going forward there will be more with different rewards for different tasks. I imagine PvP tasks will be in there in the future too, as will mining and industrial tasks. I believe the reason a rat being killed was chosen is that it's readily available to the widest audience and allows them to build the basic system so it can be extended and balanced at a later date.
lots of rp'ers who live in systems where the faction they support are the main rats wont shoot that rat because you know if fcks the immersion and story that the players created, which this sandbox game once promoted.
lets not forget traders and haulers who will also miss out on this, even though these people are active in the game.
the reason this daily was made was because they couldnt be bothered to think of something more structured and just wanted numbers raised asap, nothing more, please dont paint it like a well thought idea as its a totally terrible execution
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Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7731
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:52:08 -
[18] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:People that don't hate it should and/or have been led to believe that this kind of gameplay is anything but detrimental to the fundamental aspect of eve as was intended. The sandbox and the premise of not having goals thrust upon the person. Sandbox doesn't mean there's no goals, it simply mean there's no forced goals. You don't have to use the opportunities system, just like you don't have to do missions, but they both have reason and benefits to doing them.
Terranid Meester wrote:A list of why Recurring Opportunities are bad 1. You still can set your own goals, you just have different benefits now when choosing what to do each day.
2. Sure, but I think since then they'e realised that the ability to buy and sell SP has converted them into an asset which can be awarded, and they've chosen to use that. By picking a fixed amount of SP too, they ensure that newer players benefit considerably more from the SP which is excellent.
3. It's never been hard. Figuring out what to do when you first start is pretty much the only hard part of the game, after which everything becomes about ISK. You can never lose anything that doesn't come down to ISK, so balancing your losses vs your earnings is the only real challenge. What's great is that they've even got a policy where cheaper ships can still be effective, so you can choose to make it even easier on yourself. Since ISK has been ludicrously easy to gain as far back as I can remember though, it's really not difficult to be pretty much unaffected by anything that occurs in the game.
4. No, but giving them SP for something they are doing anyway and encouraging them to log in more will. In the future there will be PvP opportunities too.
5. We make SP all the time. Hell, I now make 3 times as much SP as I used to because I can sell it on. Getting it for shooting rats really isn't that big a change.
6. They aren't driven anywhere, they are given the choice. Just like you can choose to never undock, station trade in Jita and buy injectors to get more SP too.
7. It always has. If you can only play 2 hours a week you are unlikely to achieve the same level of income as someone playing 40 hours a week. That's just the nature of games with any form of fixed progress, players who play more can gain it faster.
8. That's based on your choice to live in an area with Serpentis rats on a character that favours Serpentis standings. You could however take a single level 1 security mission for Serpentis, or with any other agent that sends you to kill drones or another faction and you'll get rat kills doing that. I feel you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for reasons to hate this change at this point.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
396
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 18:53:10 -
[19] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
It is "KIll 1 NPC ", what is the time needed? 5 minutes. That make your point 1, 4 ,6,7 and 8 irrelevant or false.
Point 2 . At the time it was true. Now CCP ahs decided to change that. "How sad."
Point 3. LOL. So you think that hard is the same as "LP are accrued at specific rates". What is hard is knowing what you should do with your LP.
Point 5. We make more SP every day we are subbed, so your analogy don't work.
How does time killing something have anything to do with 1,4,6 and 7?
I bet you thought the Incarna expansion was the best thing since sliced bread too.
I mean for a CCP fanboy you can spell but it looks like reading is beyond you.
Perhaps you should learn, go back to school.
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Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7731
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:55:13 -
[20] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:lots of rp'ers who live in systems where the faction they support are the main rats wont shoot that rat because you know if fcks the immersion and story that the players created, which this sandbox game once promoted.
the reason this daily was made was because they couldnt be bothered to think of something more structured and just wanted numbers raised asap, nothing more, please dont paint it like a well thought idea as its a totally terrible execution Then do a level 1 security mission for that faction or go shoot a rat a region over when hunting players.
You can believe what you want, but they've already stated there are other opportunities on the way once this one beds the system in a bit. I really can't think of a single type of player that won't be able to achieve this one with relative ease. You've pretty much have had to extract your rookie ship skills to be incapable of this.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2897
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 18:57:19 -
[21] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:lots of rp'ers who live in systems where the faction they support are the main rats wont shoot that rat because you know if fcks the immersion and story that the players created, which this sandbox game once promoted.
the reason this daily was made was because they couldnt be bothered to think of something more structured and just wanted numbers raised asap, nothing more, please dont paint it like a well thought idea as its a totally terrible execution Then do a level 1 security mission for that faction or go shoot a rat a region over when hunting players. You can believe what you want, but they've already stated there are other opportunities on the way once this one beds the system in a bit. I really can't think of a single type of player that won't be able to achieve this one with relative ease. You've pretty much have had to extract your rookie ship skills to be incapable of this.
yes its the start of a game where you have to follow what ccp want you to do or you are being penalised, not very sandbox is it?
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Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7731
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Posted - 2016.05.19 19:02:30 -
[22] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:yes its the start of a game where you have to follow what ccp want you to do or you are being penalised, not very sandbox is it? You aren't being penalised, you're simply choosing to do something that doesn't gain you that particular reward. How many other reward generating tasks do you avoid doing? Why are those not equally as bad as this?
And again, other opportunities for other tasks will be coming.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2897
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 19:08:27 -
[23] - Quote
there is no other tasks which give sp bonuses so i dont feel like im being penalised if i dont login to gain this 5mil sp a year bonus, thats what i like about eve, im not forced to login everyday because i lose nothing for having a life out of game.
yes its the start of a system which will probably require you to login everyday or you will lose something, ive played plenty of mmo's where stuff dies or you get to a stage where you have to login (or run a bot) to fulfill these tasks, even promotes account sharing, its totally bad news. thats what dailies are designed to do
inb4 ask 10 friends on facebook to boost your dps so you kill the pirate dreadnaught.
it is penalisin you because if i dont follow this task that ccp wants me to do then i dont get a reward, even though im active everyday
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Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7731
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Posted - 2016.05.19 19:17:46 -
[24] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:there is no other tasks which give sp bonuses so i dont feel like im being penalised if i dont login to gain this 5mil sp a year bonus, thats what i like about eve, im not forced to login everyday because i lose nothing for having a life out of game. You do though. Say you and I play the exact same time and the same activities. If you don't log in for a day you lose 1 days worth of income.
Lan Wang wrote:yes its the start of a system which will probably require you to login everyday or you will lose something, ive played plenty of mmo's where stuff dies or you get to a stage where you have to login (or run a bot) to fulfill these tasks, even promotes account sharing, its totally bad news. thats what dailies are designed to do You won't lose anything, you'll simply not gain anything.
Lan Wang wrote:it is penalisin you because if i dont follow this task that ccp wants me to do then i dont get a reward, even though im active everyday Literally the same as any other activity that currently gives you a reward.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2830
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Posted - 2016.05.19 19:25:40 -
[25] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:there is no other tasks which give sp bonuses so i dont feel like im being penalised if i dont login to gain this 5mil sp a year bonus, thats what i like about eve, im not forced to login everyday because i lose nothing for having a life out of game. You do though. Say you and I play the exact same time and the same activities. If you don't log in for a day you lose 1 days worth of income. Lan Wang wrote:yes its the start of a system which will probably require you to login everyday or you will lose something, ive played plenty of mmo's where stuff dies or you get to a stage where you have to login (or run a bot) to fulfill these tasks, even promotes account sharing, its totally bad news. thats what dailies are designed to do You won't lose anything, you'll simply not gain anything. Lan Wang wrote:it is penalisin you because if i dont follow this task that ccp wants me to do then i dont get a reward, even though im active everyday Literally the same as any other activity that currently gives you a reward.
People are mostly mad about it because it's SP. If the reward was ISK, nobody would of cried as much. CCP is offering their ultimate drugs on which a large part of the player base is already addicted. Of course people will feel forced to do it just like smokers MUST smoke and drug addict are suffering when they skip over their regular consumption. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2899
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 19:33:40 -
[26] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:there is no other tasks which give sp bonuses so i dont feel like im being penalised if i dont login to gain this 5mil sp a year bonus, thats what i like about eve, im not forced to login everyday because i lose nothing for having a life out of game. You do though. Say you and I play the exact same time and the same activities. If you don't log in for a day you lose 1 days worth of income. Lan Wang wrote:yes its the start of a system which will probably require you to login everyday or you will lose something, ive played plenty of mmo's where stuff dies or you get to a stage where you have to login (or run a bot) to fulfill these tasks, even promotes account sharing, its totally bad news. thats what dailies are designed to do You won't lose anything, you'll simply not gain anything. Lan Wang wrote:it is penalisin you because if i dont follow this task that ccp wants me to do then i dont get a reward, even though im active everyday Literally the same as any other activity that currently gives you a reward.
income, i earn my income out of game, the joys of eve i can offer my rl skills and be paid for it ingame, its a bit hypocritical for you to say that, if we login at the same time and both shoot rats and i dont login 1 day i lose that 10k sp, thats being penalised for not logging in.
income has no real merit if you dont log in, nobody really cares, the daily is designed to get people to login or they feel like they lose something
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2830
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Posted - 2016.05.19 19:36:15 -
[27] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:there is no other tasks which give sp bonuses so i dont feel like im being penalised if i dont login to gain this 5mil sp a year bonus, thats what i like about eve, im not forced to login everyday because i lose nothing for having a life out of game. You do though. Say you and I play the exact same time and the same activities. If you don't log in for a day you lose 1 days worth of income. Lan Wang wrote:yes its the start of a system which will probably require you to login everyday or you will lose something, ive played plenty of mmo's where stuff dies or you get to a stage where you have to login (or run a bot) to fulfill these tasks, even promotes account sharing, its totally bad news. thats what dailies are designed to do You won't lose anything, you'll simply not gain anything. Lan Wang wrote:it is penalisin you because if i dont follow this task that ccp wants me to do then i dont get a reward, even though im active everyday Literally the same as any other activity that currently gives you a reward. income, i earn my income out of game, the joys of eve i can offer my rl skills and be paid for it ingame, its a bit hypocritical for you to say that, if we login at the same time and both shoot rats and i dont login 1 day i lose that 10k sp, thats being penalised for not logging in. income has no real merit if you dont log in, nobody really cares, the daily is designed to get people to login or they feel like they lose something
With all those comment about how people feel, is this a good thread to drop a HTFU?
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2899
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Posted - 2016.05.19 19:40:42 -
[28] - Quote
yeah it will sound soo much better coming from a goon 
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Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
208
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Posted - 2016.05.19 19:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
currently there are 2277 posts in the thread on the feedback center thread about this, most of them against dailies to varying degrees of "grrr"
Very little support for the idea as is; some support for a modified version of the idea, and a lot of vehement opposition to it.
I fall into the "vehemently opposed" group. Dailies in EVE is a horrible idea that should never see the light of day. What is CCP thinking, why are they incappable of listening to their players?
As a whole, we do not want this. Yes there are some who do, and many more who probably don't care one way or the other, but the VAST majority of those who chose to voice an oppinion stated in no uncertain terms that this is a bad idea and they did not want it implemented.
Will it be effective in increasing logins? Most likely. But it will be for the wrong reasons, which have been explained and re-explained ad nauseum in the main thread. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2830
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 19:48:11 -
[30] - Quote
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:currently there are 2277 posts in the thread on the feedback center thread about this, most of them against dailies to varying degrees of "grrr"
Very little support for the idea as is; some support for a modified version of the idea, and a lot of vehement opposition to it.
I fall into the "vehemently opposed" group. Dailies in EVE is a horrible idea that should never see the light of day. What is CCP thinking, why are they incappable of listening to their players?
As a whole, we do not want this. Yes there are some who do, and many more who probably don't care one way or the other, but the VAST majority of those who chose to voice an oppinion stated in no uncertain terms that this is a bad idea and they did not want it implemented.
Will it be effective in increasing logins? Most likely. But it will be for the wrong reasons, which have been explained and re-explained ad nauseum in the main thread.
The most vocal about jump fatigue were against it, the most vocal about skynet carrier/supers were agaisnt it. The most vocal about any subject are always the ones who don;t want it because the others just won't bother posting about it. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5234
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Posted - 2016.05.19 19:49:01 -
[31] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:CCP have obviously not listened to the reasons why this is a bad idea, and are going full fled idiocy with no brakes.
No real response from CCP regarding the issues with it. They obviously do not give a rats arse. This is what they said in their skill injector blog 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Shows you what the word of CCP is worth really when less than a year later they change their minds.
Not much reason for a CSM if this is the response from CCP. Thanks for not listening CCP.
Bring back Unifex. Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it. I give it two thumbs up! its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle
That's exactly what the Rubicon Plan (2013-2018) is doing for PvE and highsec. So cry me a effin' river because you can't shoot your alt for a "PvP daily opportunity" and are forced to touch PvE poo or pass without 10,000 free SP a day. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2830
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 19:52:28 -
[32] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:yeah it will sound soo much better coming from a goon
At the end of the day, no matter what the corp/alliance ticker there is under my name, the message is still the same. It's not like I gain anything more than anyone else out of this. I don't have any alts to earn this multiple time and I don;t log everyday. I also don't plan on logging every day for that because 10k SP is not worth it to me. Some people think it's worth doing something they hate and that's their choice but I really think they should accept that CCP don't force them to do anything and they are also not losing anything if they don;t do it except the opportunity to do it. |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1810
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 19:53:25 -
[33] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The most vocal about jump fatigue were against it, the most vocal about skynet carrier/supers were agaisnt it. The most vocal about any subject are always the ones who don;t want it because the others just won't bother posting about it.
You are assuming that all opinions are equally valid but they aren't. All that matters is who is right.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
209
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 20:04:17 -
[34] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:The most vocal about jump fatigue were against it, the most vocal about skynet carrier/supers were agaisnt it. The most vocal about any subject are always the ones who don;t want it because the others just won't bother posting about it.
True, but it's hard to count those who can't be bothered to voice an opinion one way or another. Granted, this isn't a voting process, and I'm not trying to say that it is, but CCP has lately had a bad habit of ignoring its players. Do it too much and it'll come back to bite them as people reach their own thresholds of tolerance for what CCP is doing.
I don't like dailies, nor do I like skill trading, are either (or both) enough to get me to quit? Nah, I like too much of the rest of this game. Doesn't mean I won't complain about the bad ideas, in the (futile) hope that CCP will listen.
I do try to throw my support for good ideas too, not just complain about bad ones. Unfortunately its a lot easier to find the energy to complain than to support. |
Gedrick frogue
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
47
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 20:08:40 -
[35] - Quote
I'd really like to know the reasoning behind why CCP haven't listened to the players (again) and their current regime of giving away what amounts of money?
After all with the introduction of skill injectors they introduced a direct way of translating real life money into isk and then into skill points, clearly we're paying CCP too much if they can give money away, something they seem to be doing with abandon with delayed replies to petitions etc
Hey while we're all venting why do they feel the need to be sneaky? Remember the way they 'introduced' the change to the watch list? no? it was listed under Miscellaneous!
Yup let's just keep ploughing onwards and not give two sh*ts to what the players are screaming at you ccp, nice work
OK i'm all done :)
Fly Safe and dont forget to farm those free skill points everyone :D |
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
207
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 20:18:34 -
[36] - Quote
I'm glad they renamed them "recurring," that solved all problems raised in their main thread.
Just say NO to Dailies
|
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
211
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 20:22:15 -
[37] - Quote
NovaCat13 wrote:I'm glad they renamed them "recurring," that solved all problems raised in their main thread.
I saw that stealth change, but the implementation is still going to be daily...
CCP needs to make people want to log on. The only thing people should feel like they're missing out on by not logging in is the fun of whatever they choose to be in EVE. Not the carrot dangling from the stick. |
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
63
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 20:23:16 -
[38] - Quote
Hm, i dunno... sooo... u shoot an npc and get a few extra skillpoints? Does this sum it up?
just as long as it doesn't turn into 'the bigger/more dangerous the npc, the more points u get' thingy, where big Alliance 0.0 players get an edge.
Actually for the new player this is a nice boost, for me personally, it won't make me log in/undock more often then i allready do, but thats because i'm a grumpy ol'vet and allready have millions of points   |
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
207
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 20:26:40 -
[39] - Quote
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:NovaCat13 wrote:I'm glad they renamed them "recurring," that solved all problems raised in their main thread. I saw that stealth change, but the implementation is still going to be daily... CCP needs to make people want to log on. The only thing people should feel like they're missing out on by not logging in is the fun of whatever they choose to be in EVE. Not the carrot dangling from the stick.
I fixed my OP to reflect exactly what I meant.
Just say NO to Dailies
|
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
213
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 20:29:01 -
[40] - Quote
000Hunter000 wrote:Hm, i dunno... sooo... u shoot an npc and get a few extra skillpoints? Does this sum it up? just as long as it doesn't turn into 'the bigger/more dangerous the npc, the more points u get' thingy, where big Alliance 0.0 players get an edge. Actually for the new player this is a nice boost, for me personally, it won't make me log in/undock more often then i allready do, but thats because i'm a grumpy ol'vet and allready have millions of points
the type of rat doesn't matter (as far as I've been able to tell); so no, the null alliances with bigger rats won't get an advantage over the highsec miner killing a belt frigate
and if CCP had limited it to new players in some way - accounts under 1 month old, or characters under 5m SP (below the extraction threshold) it might've been easier to accept, though still a bad idea |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 21:38:17 -
[41] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:there is no other tasks which give sp bonuses so i dont feel like im being penalised if i dont login to gain this 5mil sp a year bonus, thats what i like about eve, im not forced to login everyday because i lose nothing for having a life out of game. You do though. Say you and I play the exact same time and the same activities. If you don't log in for a day you lose 1 days worth of income. Lan Wang wrote:yes its the start of a system which will probably require you to login everyday or you will lose something, ive played plenty of mmo's where stuff dies or you get to a stage where you have to login (or run a bot) to fulfill these tasks, even promotes account sharing, its totally bad news. thats what dailies are designed to do You won't lose anything, you'll simply not gain anything. Lan Wang wrote:it is penalisin you because if i dont follow this task that ccp wants me to do then i dont get a reward, even though im active everyday Literally the same as any other activity that currently gives you a reward. income, i earn my income out of game, the joys of eve i can offer my rl skills and be paid for it ingame, its a bit hypocritical for you to say that, if we login at the same time and both shoot rats and i dont login 1 day i lose that 10k sp, thats being penalised for not logging in. income has no real merit if you dont log in, nobody really cares, the daily is designed to get people to login or they feel like they lose something
If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 21:46:59 -
[42] - Quote
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
As a whole, we do not want this. Yes there are some who do, and many more who probably don't care one way or the other, but the VAST majority of those who chose to voice an oppinion stated in no uncertain terms that this is a bad idea and they did not want it implemented.
the vast majority of those who chose to voice an opinion =/= vast majority of the players
From the vast majority of forum posts apparently we don't want non consensual PVP and tons of other features that instead have been part of the game for a long time and seem to attract players or at least to be accepted by them.
I don't pretend to know what the wast majority of the players want, especially not on the basis of some forum post. Making a survey on the basis of a few forum posts, mostly made by the same persons, give a very questionable result. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
227
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 21:51:14 -
[43] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it.
I give it two thumbs up!
Your trolling is in great form. Be less obvious about it in the future. Decent trolling is actually subtle.
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:It is "KIll 1 NPC ", what is the time needed? 5 minutes.
And for the multiple playstyles that spend weeks at a time in non-combat ships in deep space, as well as the ones that don't train combat at all? |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 22:04:42 -
[44] - Quote
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:The most vocal about jump fatigue were against it, the most vocal about skynet carrier/supers were agaisnt it. The most vocal about any subject are always the ones who don;t want it because the others just won't bother posting about it. True, but it's hard to count those who can't be bothered to voice an opinion one way or another. Granted, this isn't a voting process, and I'm not trying to say that it is, but CCP has lately had a bad habit of ignoring its players. Do it too much and it'll come back to bite them as people reach their own thresholds of tolerance for what CCP is doing. I don't like dailies, nor do I like skill trading, are either (or both) enough to get me to quit? Nah, I like too much of the rest of this game. Doesn't mean I won't complain about the bad ideas, in the (futile) hope that CCP will listen. I do try to throw my support for good ideas too, not just complain about bad ones. Unfortunately its a lot easier to find the energy to complain than to support.
A honest reply, but the last row show exactly why judging what people want by forum posts isn't a great way to do it.
Isaac Armer wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:It is "KIll 1 NPC ", what is the time needed? 5 minutes. And for the multiple playstyles that spend weeks at a time in non-combat ships in deep space, as well as the ones that don't train combat at all?
They don't get 10.000 SP.
I normally use +5 implants, that is a bit more than 10K extra sp/day.
And the multiple play stiles that don't use implants or use implants that give secondary bonuses but a lower stat bonus? Who think about them?
You want the same options for everyone, so why we don get all the same stats, withotu characteristic enhancing implants? that would level the SP earning field. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2907
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 22:06:05 -
[45] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing.
how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive?
if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it?
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
228
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 22:17:55 -
[46] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:They don't get 10.000 SP.
I normally use +5 implants, that is a bit more than 10K extra sp/day.
And the multiple play stiles that don't use implants or use implants that give secondary bonuses but a lower stat bonus? Who think about them?
You want the same options for everyone, so why we don get all the same stats, withotu characteristic enhancing implants? that would level the SP earning field.
So balance in the game now goes out the window? Got it.
What playstyle specifically are you talking about that prevents you from using +5 implants using game mechanics? |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2832
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 22:33:40 -
[47] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing. how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive? if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it?
You didn't lose a free launch. You never had it in the first place. Something that is offered to you is only yours if you actually take it. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5236
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 22:35:08 -
[48] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing. how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive? if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it?
It is not free. You must do something for it. Same as if you want a skill injector, you gotta obtain and complete 20 times the "Suicide Squad" Level 4 mission.
Don't do it, don't get it. How should be somebody else's fault to get it?
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5236
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 22:37:33 -
[49] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing. how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive? if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it? You didn't lose a free launch. You never had it in the first place. Something that is offered to you is only yours if you actually take it.
But, but, but... other kids will get a free lunch! It's not fair! If she doesn't wants a free lunch, then nobody must get a free lunch! |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 23:18:45 -
[50] - Quote
Wait, I just have to kill an npc, any npc, and I get 10k SP? Every day?
Sweet! My hobgobs kill belt rats when I go mining most days. Bonus!
Keep up the good work, CCP!
|
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Absolute Massive Destruction
Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 23:26:25 -
[51] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle Not really, it's shooting a rat which most playstyles either will do naturally or can do with ease. I mean if you're a PvPer all you have to do is swoop into a belt, volley one rat and you're done. And remember this is just the first one which puts the system in place. Going forward there will be more with different rewards for different tasks. I imagine PvP tasks will be in there in the future too, as will mining and industrial tasks. I believe the reason a rat being killed was chosen is that it's readily available to the widest audience and allows them to build the basic system so it can be extended and balanced at a later date. lots of rp'ers who live in systems where the faction they support are the main rats wont shoot that rat because you know if fcks the immersion and story that the players created, which this sandbox game once promoted. lets not forget traders and haulers who will also miss out on this, even though these people are active in the game. the reason this daily was made was because they couldnt be bothered to think of something more structured and just wanted numbers raised asap, nothing more, please dont paint it like a well thought idea as its a totally terrible execution
People still roleplay? |
morion
Lighting Build
88
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 23:51:11 -
[52] - Quote
1 feeling disavantaged wrong
2. all acounts still train a 24 hour skill Q regardless of this.
3.it's a beter alternative to a alarm clock no skill Q
looking at you 2003
4. A incentive to log in and participat.
5. A true disencentive would reduction of 10,000 daily skill points from the passive Q for not logging in.
6. clyclical just as tritanium can be sold for isk
isk sold for skill injectors
visa vee exstacted skils sold for isk
isk turned into tritanium
its a incentive for effort nothing moor or less. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.19 23:57:01 -
[53] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:They don't get 10.000 SP.
I normally use +5 implants, that is a bit more than 10K extra sp/day.
And the multiple play stiles that don't use implants or use implants that give secondary bonuses but a lower stat bonus? Who think about them?
You want the same options for everyone, so why we don get all the same stats, without characteristic enhancing implants? that would level the SP earning field. So balance in the game now goes out the window? Got it. What playstyle specifically are you talking about that prevents you from using +5 implants using game mechanics?
What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.
What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.
Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.
What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest. |
Scruffled
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 00:51:42 -
[54] - Quote
EVE is a game that is close to a lot of peoples hearts. There are a lot of old MMO's that have had similar things happen. "The good days" are over. EVE, is a business model. It's not non-profit. Those who created and maintain it, want to continue their revenue and player base, which requires the business model to adapt and change. Gamers from 2003 are different from gamers in 2016. Just like the gamers in 2003, are different from gamers in 1990.
Bottom line is it's either adapt or die. The game cannot continue without evolving into something new.
"The dream is over." - John Lennon |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
228
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 01:04:46 -
[55] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.
What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.
Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.
What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest.
1. When you spend weeks on end not docked in systems with no stations, how do you suggest I kill an NPC every day, given thats the only way to gain SPs with this new "feature" Are you a newbie? Have you played this game outside of HS?
2. When did I mention PvP'ers? Stop being poor to get around game mechanics. Earn isk, bra
3. Today I learned you don't know what the word balance means. Thumbs up!
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
44738
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 01:24:05 -
[56] - Quote
More power to CCP if this works for them.
Personally would like some options other than shooting a rat, but got to start somewhere. Hopefully the range of activities are expanded over time.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Bobb Bobbington
Bros Before Holes
The Devils' Rejects
305
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 01:35:47 -
[57] - Quote
I also think that this is a bad idea. For multiple reasons.
1. Betrays one of CCP's core philosophies, that skills train at about the same rate regardless of activity level. I realize that as times go on games must change however CCP's niche is HTFU, which seems to be dissapearing.
2. Only aimed towards certain playstyles. For instance, I live in a wormhole. All I do is pvp. I haven't even had a farming ship in hole for the past 3 weeks after it got chased out. I regularly find content for my corp and shoot other wormholers but I will rarely be able to shoot rats every day if even once a week.
3. Opens doors to other possibilities. Some people may counter this argument by labelling it as the "slippery slope fallacy", however that fallacy involves large leaps in logic which cause it to be inaccurate. It is a scientifically proven psychological phenomenon that if, for instance, a person asks for a small favor, it is much more likely for them to do a second, larger thing which they wouldn't normally do if the first person asked them outright. I believe these daily opportunities may be the "small favor" before the bigger leap.
4. Casts CCP in a negative light. As new players come in, normally they'd see that it betrays the qualities characteristic of larger MMOs. However, now they will see that there are "daily quests" and attempt, ultimately to fail, to approach Eve as just another level up style MMO.
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
|
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
701
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 01:41:31 -
[58] - Quote
i don't think encouraging people to 'undock' is in any way A Bad Thing(tm).
I also reckon the reward should only apply to rat kills in low, null or wormhole space, not in high sec.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
6098
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 04:43:47 -
[59] - Quote
Consider the characters without combat skills.
Also, every NPC "rat" will be eradicated on sight. They'll only be common in security missions, which must be completed or one suffers a standing penalty.
Those useless anoms that litter hisec and nobody completes? Expect them to suddenly vanish. |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 05:11:27 -
[60] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:I also think that this is a bad idea. For multiple reasons.
1. Betrays one of CCP's core philosophies, that skills train at about the same rate regardless of activity level. I realize that as times go on games must change however CCP's niche is HTFU, which seems to be dissapearing.
Injectors broke that already. I came back to the game, played a new character from the start (because its fun to start again sometimes), and without resubbing and grabbing old resources, I've added 1.5m skill points through injectors. ie you can poopsock the game now without having to buy someone elses character, but it is _still_ very slow. (ie half of my current SP are injected, and for all of that, I have unfinished skills for one races frigates and t3d, and I can use an astero for getting things in lowsec, and the only V skill for ships that I have is for destroyers to unlock the t3ds, its not for a ship I've even ever bought or intend to use directly).
Quote:
2. Only aimed towards certain playstyles. For instance, I live in a wormhole. All I do is pvp. I haven't even had a farming ship in hole for the past 3 weeks after it got chased out. I regularly find content for my corp and shoot other wormholers but I will rarely be able to shoot rats every day if even once a week.
Pretty sure there are rats in wormholes. pretty sure if you keep scanning you'll eventually find an easier wormhole too. In any case they intend adding more activities that will trigger the SP.
Quote:
3. Opens doors to other possibilities. Some people may counter this argument by labelling it as the "slippery slope fallacy", however that fallacy involves large leaps in logic which cause it to be inaccurate. It is a scientifically proven psychological phenomenon that if, for instance, a person asks for a small favor, it is much more likely for them to do a second, larger thing which they wouldn't normally do if the first person asked them outright. I believe these daily opportunities may be the "small favor" before the bigger leap.
When I looked long ago, the game had 23 years of training in it. If you want to optimize one part of the game, it pretty much locked out optimizing other parts of the game for the lifespan of most peoples subs (which is probably only 9-10 months).
ie just training a t2 large weapon group, battleships to 5 and the various support skills means not playing capitals for a year. Too long, too stupid.
Quote:
4. Casts CCP in a negative light. As new players come in, normally they'd see that it betrays the qualities characteristic of larger MMOs. However, now they will see that there are "daily quests" and attempt, ultimately to fail, to approach Eve as just another level up style MMO.
And then they undock from jita and a tornado insta locks them and they explode. There isn't many ways of playing this game that won't eventually cause you to come across eve style consequences. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
176
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 05:26:02 -
[61] - Quote
And here we go again.
What we see here is the game telling us what to do and when with a big carrot many people won't be able to ignore.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I kill lots of rats. I've never gotten a player kill. I probably wouldn't even have to change anything to make my daily rat go boom.
It's a bad idea, don't do it.
Even if they do it "right" by giving us 10k SP for 360 degrees of camera spin (docked or no), it's the game telling us when to play. It's not players lobbing explosive shells and torpedoes at your imaginary front door promising a good fight. It's just... time to log in again, until it's time to find a less annoying game.
A signature :o
|
Elinara Yamamoto
Latex Entosis
Insignificant Others
23
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 05:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
This can not be achieved by every character and saying so is a lie. A cloaky cyno 5 hunter that does not want to give away which ship he/she/it is in risks being seen on scan if killing a rat. That diminishes the sandbox.
A stationtrader looses immersion if they have to go to a belt and shoot a rat, that might not be what they want to do.
This is BS I hate this change more than anything... |
Persephone Norman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 05:56:52 -
[63] - Quote
Somehow I can't help feeling some degree of hype over this. Is this happening to anyone else? |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
2484
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 06:08:58 -
[64] - Quote
Why only for NPCs? We should get 10x that amount for killing a player. Maybe for > 10M ISK kills or something to limit abuse.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 06:14:55 -
[65] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.
What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.
Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.
What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest. 1. When you spend weeks on end not docked in systems with no stations, how do you suggest I kill an NPC every day, given thats the only way to gain SPs with this new "feature" Are you a newbie? Have you played this game outside of HS? 2. When did I mention PvP'ers? Stop being poor to get around game mechanics. Earn isk, bra 3. Today I learned you don't know what the word balance means. Thumbs up!
Wow, you live for months in a system where NPC never appears. 
Be serious. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 06:23:11 -
[66] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Consider the characters without combat skills.
Also, every NPC "rat" will be eradicated on sight. They'll only be common in security missions, which must be completed or one suffers a standing penalty.
Those useless anoms that litter hisec and nobody completes? Expect them to suddenly vanish.
1) Normally miners eradicate low threat NPC ratsas they are a threat for their ships. High threat (0.0) rats are eradicated because they give good stuff. - No change here
2) anyone can get a level 1 security mission and end it in minutes. You know, those are meant to be doable with your noob ship and starting skills. Even someone that hasn't trained anything beyond the starting skills can board a decent frigate and complete one.
He can even left it open, kill 1 rat every day and spend half a hour the seventh day to complete it. - I don't see any problem here.
3) so it will make the "useless" anom in high sec useful - exactly what is the problem?
|
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
613
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 06:28:55 -
[67] - Quote
Elinara Yamamoto wrote:This can not be achieved by every character and saying so is a lie. A cloaky cyno 5 hunter that does not want to give away which ship he/she/it is in risks being seen on scan if killing a rat. That diminishes the sandbox.
A stationtrader looses immersion if they have to go to a belt and shoot a rat, that might not be what they want to do.
This is BS I hate this change more than anything...
Use another char on the same account, suck in the (almost) free sp, get an extractor.
- profit or
- more sps on your fav. char. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
177
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 06:35:50 -
[68] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
As a whole, we do not want this. Yes there are some who do, and many more who probably don't care one way or the other, but the VAST majority of those who chose to voice an oppinion stated in no uncertain terms that this is a bad idea and they did not want it implemented.
the vast majority of those who chose to voice an opinion =/= vast majority of the players From the vast majority of forum posts apparently we don't want non consensual PVP and tons of other features that instead have been part of the game for a long time and seem to attract players or at least to be accepted by them. I don't pretend to know what the wast majority of the players want, especially not on the basis of some forum post. Making a survey on the basis of a few forum posts, mostly made by the same persons, give a very questionable result.
So drop the link to this topic (and the announcements topic) in a lot of local channels and say "Discuss!"
Chances are they aren't the ones who pay much attention anyway, so... most of them aren't going to say anything even if you tell them about it.
A signature :o
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1216
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 06:38:53 -
[69] - Quote
So since CCP has hired one million new employees, how do you pay us for doing another job?
I expect damages in the likes of 750.000 trillion isk by the end of quarter, oh a level up of course.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1706
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 07:04:40 -
[70] - Quote
Dumbest way of fixing mistakes, ever.
CCP misses the ball, to put it nicely, by going overboard with the skill queue, which in result creates a considerable chunk of EVE players not logging in. Instead of fixing this by reverting the skill queue debacle we get 'dailies' and more to come.
CCP Seagul wasn't here when we had the so called 'Ghost training' in which your skill kept training even if your account had expired. Then at some point someone at CCP does the math, falls of his/her chair and runs to Hilmar screaming you have NO IDEA how much money we lose over this. So in 2 days time CCP "fixes" this once documented feature but instead of telling their player base the truth -> "ghost training, big mistake, we lose lots of money, we sorry", they hang up lies and spin so the forums explode.
Back to today, the near unlimited skill queue is a big mistake, CCP loses big chunks of money over this but afraid as they are these days (HTFU, who?) of their player base instead of fixing it by reverting the mistake made by their lead dev we get this sh*t.
To be honest, I think that if you would put this by your player base -> "we made big mistake, skill queue overboard, we lose money, we going to limit it, we sorry", people would had understood it.
Now you just poop in our sandbox with this awkward, cowardly approach instead of actually tackling your problem. |
Johnny Riko
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
104
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 07:18:16 -
[71] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Dumbest way of fixing mistakes, ever.
CCP misses the ball, to put it nicely, by going overboard with the skill queue, which in result creates a considerable chunk of EVE players not logging in. Instead of fixing this by reverting the skill queue debacle we get 'dailies' and more to come.
CCP Seagul wasn't here when we had the so called 'Ghost training' in which your skill kept training even if your account had expired. Then at some point someone at CCP does the math, falls of his/her chair and runs to Hilmar screaming you have NO IDEA how much money we lose over this. So in 2 days time CCP "fixes" this once documented feature but instead of telling their player base the truth -> "ghost training, big mistake, we lose lots of money, we sorry", they hang up lies and spin so the forums explode.
Back to today, the near unlimited skill queue is a big mistake, CCP loses big chunks of money over this but afraid as they are these days (HTFU, who?) of their player base instead of fixing it by reverting the mistake made by their lead dev we get this sh*t.
To be honest, I think that if you would put this by your player base -> "we made big mistake, skill queue overboard, we lose money, we going to limit it, we sorry", people would had understood it.
Now you just poop in our sandbox with this awkward, cowardly approach instead of actually tackling your problem.
You think the skill queue update was a bad change for the game/number of players logging in? Are you dumb?
I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
1631
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 07:23:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:i don't think encouraging people to 'undock' is in any way A Bad Thing(tm).
I also reckon the reward should only apply to rat kills in low, null or wormhole space, not in high sec.
Grrrr hisec....
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7739
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 08:03:37 -
[73] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:income, i earn my income out of game, the joys of eve i can offer my rl skills and be paid for it ingame, its a bit hypocritical for you to say that, if we login at the same time and both shoot rats and i dont login 1 day i lose that 10k sp, thats being penalised for not logging in.
income has no real merit if you dont log in, nobody really cares, the daily is designed to get people to login or they feel like they lose something It's not though. and since SP can be bought for isk, any income can effectively get you exactly what this opportunity does.
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:currently there are 2277 posts in the thread on the feedback center thread about this, most of them against dailies to varying degrees of "grrr" Of which 465 of those posts are from just 5 posters.
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:As a whole, we do not want this. Only 645 unique posters have posted in that thread, so that's really not enough players to claim anything as a whole.
Isaac Armer wrote:Your trolling is in great form. Be less obvious about it in the future. Decent trolling is actually subtle. That's not trolling, I legitimately think it's a good idea. It doesn't surprise me though that you consider opinions opposing your own as trolling.
Isaac Armer wrote:And for the multiple playstyles that spend weeks at a time in non-combat ships in deep space, as well as the ones that don't train combat at all? There will be opportunities for those going forwards. This one is simply the one that is easiest for the largest number of players to use.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
1068
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 09:12:06 -
[74] - Quote
7 years ive been here, and this is the end. This and future changes along these lines, will be massively detrimentel to what the core fundamentals of Eve was, so for me its time to get out.
CCP, this decision will come back to haunt you, trust me. |
Yarosara Ruil
328
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 10:14:21 -
[75] - Quote
Steijn wrote:CCP, this decision will come back to haunt you, trust me.
I'm sure their nightmares are already quite busy with the regret of removing clone grades and adding skill extractors...
Oh wait! No they aren't! |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2833
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 11:36:21 -
[76] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So since CCP has hired one million new employees, how do you pay us for doing another job?
I expect damages in the likes of 750.000 trillion isk by the end of quarter, oh a level up of course.
They pay you 10k SP. You can choose to forgo doing the job if you wish. |
Jarrard Lorn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
72
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 11:45:06 -
[77] - Quote
Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼ |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
583
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 11:51:02 -
[78] - Quote
Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼
True, but if CCP spend less time on for example releasing SKINS and more time on actuall sandbox were we all can benefit from it would be better don't you think? I don't need skins, dailies, SP trading, I want healthy sandbox environment with fun tools to play with. That would make me login daily not some kind of crude bribe.
I am the 85%
|
Aurelius Oshidashi
Immortal Lunatics
Ministry of Agressive Destruction
7
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 11:52:48 -
[79] - Quote
I guess I should support this feature if it turns out to be good for EvE, but it certainly isn't good for me. I can only log in during the weekend. I'm quite new to the game still so I'm careful to judge, but my gut feeling tells me this feature is far from the essence, the character of what EvE is. Feels like a mini game I would play on my phone. But ok, let's see what happens |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2925
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 12:02:23 -
[80] - Quote
Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼
ofcourse it will affect people who dont want to do them as we will be constantly notified every time we dock and undock that our dailies are not complete
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Jarrard Lorn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
72
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 12:17:46 -
[81] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼ ofcourse it will affect people who dont want to do them as we will be constantly notified every time we dock and undock that our dailies are not complete
Oh god... thats it for me... this is one step too far |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2833
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 12:50:30 -
[82] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼ ofcourse it will affect people who dont want to do them as we will be constantly notified every time we dock and undock that our dailies are not complete
I though they had removed that part close to the end of the test on SiSi. Could of been when they removed the entire feature for a time tho... |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3844
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 13:10:10 -
[83] - Quote
Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼
Yes, because the extra SP being dumped into the game will lower the prices of SP in the skill injector market. Everyone using that market to get extra ISK will be effected.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
122
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 13:16:12 -
[84] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼ Yes, because the extra SP being dumped into the game will lower the prices of SP in the skill injector market. Everyone using that market to get extra ISK will be effected.
Or it will increase the demand as more people get addicted to spending SP on their skill queue. |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 14:06:52 -
[85] - Quote
Aurelius Oshidashi wrote:I guess I should support this feature if it turns out to be good for EvE, but it certainly isn't good for me. I can only log in during the weekend. I'm quite new to the game still so I'm careful to judge, but my gut feeling tells me this feature is far from the essence, the character of what EvE is. Feels like a mini game I would play on my phone. But ok, let's see what happens
So you go and kill a bunch of rats on the weekend and buy a skill injector on the weekend.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2836
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 14:07:10 -
[86] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼ Yes, because the extra SP being dumped into the game will lower the prices of SP in the skill injector market. Everyone using that market to get extra ISK will be effected.
Oh noes!!!! People can't make as much ISK out of subbed but otherwise inactive account. The tragedy!!!!! |
Jarrard Lorn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
72
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 14:12:35 -
[87] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Jarrard Lorn wrote:Has this really got an effect on people who don't want to partake in this? This wont change the way you play the game unless you let it...
I feel like the arguments are a lot like the gay marriage debate... it helps a lot of people but some folks dont want it to happen because tradition... -¼_-¼ Yes, because the extra SP being dumped into the game will lower the prices of SP in the skill injector market. Everyone using that market to get extra ISK will be effected.
Why are you playing Eve when you clearly know how to predict the market!!!
dude you should totally get into share buying.... seriously |
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
210
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 14:19:57 -
[88] - Quote
Johnny Riko wrote:You think the skill queue update was a bad change for the game/number of players logging in? Are you dumb?
CCP Rise wrote:Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
You were saying?
Just say NO to Dailies
|
Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
217
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 15:21:37 -
[89] - Quote
murmur murmur murmur murmur
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5820
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 15:26:41 -
[90] - Quote
Well, that's EVE telling people who have to structure their lives around work or family commitments to f off for other games. Undoing all the good work of fixing hte 24 hour skillqueue.
I'll abuse this feature (quicker gank alt training...) but it is going to be very bad for the game.
It's definitely going to result in a lot more people setting a jump clone to highsec to do their daily chore, and then being unable to participate in unexpected fights because they are 40 jumps away and on timer.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1218
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 15:39:18 -
[91] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:elitatwo wrote:So since CCP has hired one million new employees, how do you pay us for doing another job?
I expect damages in the likes of 750.000 trillion isk by the end of quarter, oh a level up of course. They pay you 10k SP. You can choose to forgo doing the job if you wish.
No for SATAN's sake!
I AM DOING A JOB THAT I AM NOT GETTING PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!!
EVERYONE ELSE WHO DID NOT DESERVE OR EARN THEM WILL GET THEM TOO.
Are you just too daft to comprehend that and you are with a swarm of the dumbest creatures ever existed??
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Daerrol
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
304
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 15:46:48 -
[92] - Quote
SERIOUS QUESSTION: Do sleeper kills, Incursion kills, Seeker kills, Low-sec FW kills and other none bounty paying kills trigger this? If not #@$! YOU!!! CCP. If those do trigger this then Awesome Feature, dude!
Wow people realize this more or less already exists in the game. All that time you aren't running incursions? You are missing XP. Incursions translate into 1 skill extractor every 4-6 hours. Earlier than that? You could run incursions and log in daily to grind and use the char bazaar to buy a max skilled 2005 pilot. Really don't get this hate
New beans will be able to fly doctrines faster. Oldvets will get even more SP.
|
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
231
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 16:47:01 -
[93] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.
What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.
Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.
What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest.
If I'm in a non-combat ship undocked for a week straight I can't kill anything. I can still plug in +5s. So one more time, what game mechanic prevents you from fitting +5s? If I'm a pure industrialist, I'm not going to be able to kill a rat every day, I can still easily use any implant I want.
All playstyles should earn SPs at the same rate. That's been a core tenant of EVE for a long time. Hell, if it were up to me learning implants, attributes and skill injectors wouldn't exist in the game.
I've only been playing EVE for a year. I don't want to be a special snowflake and have my hand held so I can catch up to vets. I want to find my niche where I can beat them in spite of having significantly less SPs. That's one of the great things about EVE. Ideas like this (and skill injectors) just cater to the lazy who don't want to figure out the puzzle and find that niche where they can excel. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15871
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 16:56:13 -
[94] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:
No for SATAN's sake!
Oi!
leave us and ours out of this forsaken topic.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2836
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 17:19:21 -
[95] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:elitatwo wrote:So since CCP has hired one million new employees, how do you pay us for doing another job?
I expect damages in the likes of 750.000 trillion isk by the end of quarter, oh a level up of course. They pay you 10k SP. You can choose to forgo doing the job if you wish. No for SATAN's sake! I AM DOING A JOB THAT I AM NOT GETTING PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!! EVERYONE ELSE WHO DID NOT DESERVE OR EARN THEM WILL GET THEM TOO. Are you just too daft to comprehend that and you are with a swarm of the dumbest creatures ever existed??
Those who didn't earn them won't get them since they will not have accomplished the requirement to get it. For those who don't deserve them, I'd like to get a definition of what is deserving or not of it because frankly, mine is kinda simplistic by making anyone who does the required task deserving of those SP since that's effectively the only requirement CCP put on it. If you have a different definition, you should put it here so we can discuss it.
As for not getting paid, this is entirely your won problem and not mine. I'm playing a game in which I don't expect to get paid. All I expect is to get what I am promised and manage to complete the requirement. If CCP tells me I will get 10k SP for killing a rat every 22 hours, I expect to get 10k SP when I kill a rat once every 22 hours. I surely don't expect them to give me those SP if I fail to kill a rat for whatever reason is might be from not being able to log to having extracted every single spaceship command skill preventing me from unlocking to go kill a rat.
As for being daft and dumb, I will just let the insult slide seeing as I will follow my standard procedure of using part of a game I enjoy and just ignoring the one I dislike because at the end of the day, I play this game, just like any other games, for the entertainment value, not maximizing my e-wallet, e-fame, e-creds or e-fight record. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2836
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 17:22:00 -
[96] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote: So one more time, what game mechanic prevents you from fitting +5s?
When you have any pirate set plugged in since they cap out at +4?
If you can pretend it's impossible for you to change ship to get in one that can at least field a weapon system, people should be able to pretend they can't get out of their pirate set which isn't a +5 set. In both case, saying it's impossible to go around is blatantly false but hey, if you want to roll in bad arguments, it's your call. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
231
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 17:36:14 -
[97] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:When you have any pirate set plugged in since they cap out at +4?
If you can pretend it's impossible for you to change ship to get in one that can at least field a weapon system, people should be able to pretend they can't get out of their pirate set which isn't a +5 set. In both case, saying it's impossible to go around is blatantly false but hey, if you want to roll in bad arguments, it's your call.
So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now?
The idea of having learning implants alone needs to be revisited, much less adding dailies like we're in WoW. What playstyle erquires pirate set implants? If you want to use mental gymnastics to justify dumbing down this game, it's your call. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
938
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 18:13:53 -
[98] - Quote
Pardon if I missed this detail somewhere, but is this an opportunity per account (10K) or per character (3x10K)?
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2836
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 18:17:31 -
[99] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:When you have any pirate set plugged in since they cap out at +4?
If you can pretend it's impossible for you to change ship to get in one that can at least field a weapon system, people should be able to pretend they can't get out of their pirate set which isn't a +5 set. In both case, saying it's impossible to go around is blatantly false but hey, if you want to roll in bad arguments, it's your call. So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now?
Those are choice that you make. Just like most things in EVE, CCP is offering you choices. If you do X, you will get Y. If you kill a rat, you get 10k SP. If you kill a rat with bounty, you get that bounty. If you use the right implants, you get more SP/hours. If you complete this missing, you get this reward. If you lose your ship under insurance contract, you get this amount of ISK. None of those are forced on you. You will be forced to do something when CCP will tell you "Do task X or your account gets cancelled". It's effectively present in EVE right now in the form of keep a valid subscription or use a PLEX or else your account goes inactive. That is effectively the only thing CCP force you to do and that will still be the case once you get the opportunity to kill a rat for 10k SP. The fact that it's a stupid daily does not change the fact that you have the absolute right to just not do it and CCP won't do a thing to you. Your character will still earn X SP/hours based on it's attributes and current progressing skill. You will still be able tolog into the game and will still be able to do everything your character is skilled for.
Be happy tho, removal of recently added feature is actually something which has a precedent in EVE so MAYBE bitching about it can lead to it's removal.
KIller Wabbit wrote:Pardon if I missed this detail somewhere, but is this an opportunity per account (10K) or per character (3x10K)?
Last info given by CCP Rise was once per account. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
375
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 18:20:16 -
[100] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Pardon if I missed this detail somewhere, but is this an opportunity per account (10K) or per character (3x10K)?
Per account. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 18:46:04 -
[101] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Dumbest way of fixing mistakes, ever.
CCP misses the ball, to put it nicely, by going overboard with the skill queue, which in result creates a considerable chunk of EVE players not logging in. Instead of fixing this by reverting the skill queue debacle we get 'dailies' and more to come.
CCP Seagul wasn't here when we had the so called 'Ghost training' in which your skill kept training even if your account had expired. Then at some point someone at CCP does the math, falls of his/her chair and runs to Hilmar screaming you have NO IDEA how much money we lose over this. So in 2 days time CCP "fixes" this once documented feature but instead of telling their player base the truth -> "ghost training, big mistake, we lose lots of money, we sorry", they hang up lies and spin so the forums explode.
Back to today, the near unlimited skill queue is a big mistake, CCP loses big chunks of money over this but afraid as they are these days (HTFU, who?) of their player base instead of fixing it by reverting the mistake made by their lead dev we get this sh*t.
To be honest, I think that if you would put this by your player base -> "we made big mistake, skill queue overboard, we lose money, we going to limit it, we sorry", people would had understood it.
Now you just poop in our sandbox with this awkward, cowardly approach instead of actually tackling your problem.
You are seriously arguing that the skill queue is a bad thing?
|
Vollhov Jr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 19:04:56 -
[102] - Quote
In 2011
Red Alliance.
Red Phoenix The Symbol of Revival.
My elder brother: Vollhov
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
72
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 19:10:20 -
[103] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:
So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now?
The idea of having learning implants alone needs to be revisited, much less adding dailies like we're in WoW. What playstyle requires pirate set implants? If you want to use mental gymnastics to justify dumbing down this game, it's your call.
If you have pure industrial accounts, you will most likely make more money doing your Job then hunting rats. In the end with the earned money you can buy an injector.
CCP is giving you an opportunity. Any industrial char with maybe 1 day Training can do Level 1 Missions. If you want to risk the +5 imps for some lousy SP is up to you.
This amount of SP will neither make or break Eve. In every other game you have to grind to raise but eve is the only game where you raise by time. Dailys are a break to this but it's still a choice and not a must do. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 19:14:02 -
[104] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.
What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.
Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.
What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest. If I'm in a non-combat ship undocked for a week straight I can't kill anything. I can still plug in +5s. So one more time, what game mechanic prevents you from fitting +5s? If I'm a pure industrialist, I'm not going to be able to kill a rat every day, I can still easily use any implant I want. All playstyles should earn SPs at the same rate. That's been a core tenant of EVE for a long time. Hell, if it were up to me learning implants, attributes and skill injectors wouldn't exist in the game. I've only been playing EVE for a year. I don't want to be a special snowflake and have my hand held so I can catch up to vets. I want to find my niche where I can beat them in spite of having significantly less SPs. That's one of the great things about EVE. Ideas like this (and skill injectors) just cater to the lazy who don't want to figure out the puzzle and find that niche where they can excel.
1) Not everyone earns SP at the same rate, the rate change depending on your characteristics (implants included), isk (skill injector) and RL income (again, skill injectors)
2) What are you doing that require you to stay for a week in a non combat ship without a chance to go away for even a few minutes? I have killed rats with industrials, the only ships that can't kill anything are those that lack both high slots and drone bays. You are staying in a freighter for weeks, without ever docking?
|
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 19:15:12 -
[105] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:When you have any pirate set plugged in since they cap out at +4?
If you can pretend it's impossible for you to change ship to get in one that can at least field a weapon system, people should be able to pretend they can't get out of their pirate set which isn't a +5 set. In both case, saying it's impossible to go around is blatantly false but hey, if you want to roll in bad arguments, it's your call. So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now? The idea of having learning implants alone needs to be revisited, much less adding dailies like we're in WoW. What playstyle requires pirate set implants? If you want to use mental gymnastics to justify dumbing down this game, it's your call.
You have missed the time where you had to learn the learning skills and advanced learning skills to increase your stats. More than a month of training to get better at training.
Enjoy your free ride.
|
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
211
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 19:19:55 -
[106] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:You are seriously arguing that the skill queue is a bad thing?
CCP is arguing it is. So here it is again:
CCP Rise wrote:Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Just say NO to Dailies
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2934
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 19:27:15 -
[107] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a nood gund and a noob frigate.
how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing"
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 19:49:29 -
[108] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a noob gun and a noob frigate. how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing"
So you cry because other people will get 10k sp/day after spending a few SP to get them, while you don't want to spend any SP in combat skills.
You really don't have trained any combat related skill? What you do, station trading with max broker fee as you have no standing?
Piloting a freighter require at least industrial 5 and today the industrials can mount several weapons.
With less than 5.000 sp you can use a light missile launcher and shield extenders. More than enough to kill a rat. You can do level 1 missions with that in a industrial.
So either you are totally clueless or a troll. probably the second.
Nice set of kills for someone that can't pilot any combat ship: https://zkillboard.com/character/91801779/ |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2937
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 20:01:58 -
[109] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a noob gun and a noob frigate. how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing" So you cry because other people will get 10k sp/day after spending a few SP to get them, while you don't want to spend any SP in combat skills. You really don't have trained any combat related skill? What you do, station trading with max broker fee as you have no standing? Piloting a freighter require at least industrial 5 and today the industrials can mount several weapons. With less than 5.000 sp you can use a light missile launcher and shield extenders. More than enough to kill a rat. You can do level 1 missions with that in a industrial. So either you are totally clueless or a troll. probably the second. Nice set of kills for someone that can't pilot any combat ship: https://zkillboard.com/character/91801779/
did i ever say i was a non combat character?
im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better?
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
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Wanda Fayne
213
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 20:10:59 -
[110] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a noob gun and a noob frigate. how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing" So you cry because other people will get 10k sp/day after spending a few SP to get them, while you don't want to spend any SP in combat skills. You really don't have trained any combat related skill? What you do, station trading with max broker fee as you have no standing? Piloting a freighter require at least industrial 5 and today the industrials can mount several weapons. With less than 5.000 sp you can use a light missile launcher and shield extenders. More than enough to kill a rat. You can do level 1 missions with that in a industrial. So either you are totally clueless or a troll. probably the second. Nice set of kills for someone that can't pilot any combat ship: https://zkillboard.com/character/91801779/ did i ever say i was a non combat character? im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better? your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
So true, you just gave me my first signature
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2836
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 20:44:37 -
[111] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
did i ever say i was a non combat character?
im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better?
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
Your RPing is a personal choice. CCP don't have to take your personal choice into account when designing feature, especially the ones not even targeted at a player like you who admittedly logs in every day already. According to what your point of view looks to be, I should be mad because my own personal play style in every game to not bother with dailies unless the actual activity provide me a form of entertainment stop me from participating into it. Stop being childish and accept the consequence of your own choices. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7742
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 21:10:36 -
[112] - Quote
Aurelius Oshidashi wrote:I guess I should support this feature if it turns out to be good for EvE, but it certainly isn't good for me. I can only log in during the weekend. I'm quite new to the game still so I'm careful to judge, but my gut feeling tells me this feature is far from the essence, the character of what EvE is. Feels like a mini game I would play on my phone. But ok, let's see what happens You'll still be able to do it twice a week though so you can still get gains out of it. Of course people who play more will get more, just like every other mechanic.
Vincent Athena wrote:Yes, because the extra SP being dumped into the game will lower the prices of SP in the skill injector market. Everyone using that market to get extra ISK will be effected. But this can already happen. I've already gone from 16 characters churning SP to 48 characters and I plan to continue growing that number. Everyone choosing to farm SP lowers the SP price.
Isaac Armer wrote:So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now? It's not dictating anything, it's offering. Just like you can't complete mission for fed navy SP in wormholes, you have the choice to do the task for the reward, or not. It would only be disctating your playstyle if you were actually forced to use it, foe example if they said "if you don't kill an NPC every 22 hours you stop generating SP". That would be forcing a playstyle. You're boohooing over an optional task.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
233
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 21:12:54 -
[113] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Those are choice that you make. Just like most things in EVE, CCP is offering you choices. If you do X, you will get Y. If you kill a rat, you get 10k SP. If you kill a rat with bounty, you get that bounty. If you use the right implants, you get more SP/hours. If you complete this missing, you get this reward. If you lose your ship under insurance contract, you get this amount of ISK. None of those are forced on you. You will be forced to do something when CCP will tell you "Do task X or your account gets cancelled". It's effectively present in EVE right now in the form of keep a valid subscription or use a PLEX or else your account goes inactive. That is effectively the only thing CCP force you to do and that will still be the case once you get the opportunity to kill a rat for 10k SP. The fact that it's a stupid daily does not change the fact that you have the absolute right to just not do it and CCP won't do a thing to you. Your character will still earn X SP/hours based on it's attributes and current progressing skill. You will still be able tolog into the game and will still be able to do everything your character is skilled for.
Be happy tho, removal of recently added feature is actually something which has a precedent in EVE so MAYBE bitching about it can lead to it's removal.
Choices (other than T3s) ATM don't affect SP gains. As a whole they never have. Skill point gain should be flat over time. No learning implants, no buying skillpoints, no EZ mode, force people to grind certain parts of the game for arbitrary reasons.
Let's pretend being able to buy skillpoints is a good thing for a minute. Adding it only for one part of the game (combat against NPCs while flat-out ignoring all other playstyles) is lazy design sh*t-poor execution of an idea to put it nicely. This isn't about wanting or not wanting more skillpoints. Hell, if I wanted more I'd sell a plex and buy injectors right now. You can earn cash IRL far faster than you can earn ISK. This is about game design not being thought out and simply ignoring the fact that EVE is a sandbox. This puts a precedence in place that it's OK in EVE to have "required" activities if you want to keep up with everyone else, which is flat-out the opposite of a sandbox.
Frosty, if you want this to move away from being a sandbox that's great. More power to you. Personally? I don't want EVE any more themepark than it already is. Feel free to disagree, I'm sure you will. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2952
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 21:24:16 -
[114] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
did i ever say i was a non combat character?
im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better?
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
Your RPing is a personal choice. CCP don't have to take your personal choice into account when designing feature, especially the ones not even targeted at a player like you who admittedly logs in every day already. According to what your point of view looks to be, I should be mad because my own personal play style in every game to not bother with dailies unless the actual activity provide me a form of entertainment stop me from participating into it. Stop being childish and accept the consequence of your own choices.
clearly they havent taken anyones choices into consideration, thanks again for confirming that im being penalised for playing the game how ccp once promoted and now im mad because they have decided my playstyle and many others is no longer relevant to what they want from the playerbase. so yeah sorry for being mad that the game ive invested a ton of money and time into has become a grinding generic mmo with no meaning what so ever.
yeah i log in everyday and roam everyday but unless i fck immersion and shoot the rat i dont get the same reward as the guy on his lunch break who logs in for 2 minutes to shoot the rat
its not being childish, its having an opinion about a change which i dont agree with, just because you agree with it doesnt make my opinion any more childish than yours.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5108
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 21:38:39 -
[115] - Quote
Anything (anything) that helps and encourages the retention of not only new players but players in general should be commended.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Wanda Fayne
214
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 22:33:00 -
[116] - Quote
If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw.
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7744
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 23:19:23 -
[117] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw. Can I have your stuff?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2953
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 23:28:17 -
[118] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote:If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw. Can I have your stuff?
you might get some stuff from those who decide to quit in your alliance, especially when you cant form a fleet because most of your alliance is doing dailies all over the place to get the unique rewards and level up to max raven pilot with golden mount. 
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David Therman
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
141
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 23:29:21 -
[119] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Can I have your stuff?
Ahem...
Wanda Fayne wrote:If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw.
If the straw that breaks the camels back is indeed placed upon you, can I have your stuff please? 
(I did say the magic word) |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
281
|
Posted - 2016.05.20 23:41:35 -
[120] - Quote
Fast growth thread over something that will likely be as accepted as Skill Extractors/Injectors.
Don't get hung up on the 'dailies' thing. Even if they buff out 100 of these critters, the only people that are going to do them are those that want the SP or whatever else they toss in. It benefits those players. So really, the dislikes of this seem to come from 3 fields:
GÇó Tradition-
EVE isn't like other MMO's so it shouldn't use their trappings. EVE has never done anything like this so it's very un-EVE. Etc.
GÇó It's not fair-
I don't feel like doing the daily, so nobody else should get to do it either (call it lazy/envy). Other players have more accounts than I do so I can only get it on 1,2,3 accounts, thus I am being short changed by the mechanics (call it envy/mini-maxxing). This is pathetic, it's not enough to make me do it daily and not worth my time, so nobody should be able to do it (call it greedy/lazy).
GÇó CCP is a bunch of dishonest losers that don't keep their word.
Skill injectors/extractors were a bad idea but at least they said, nothing else! Now they broke their word and it's a total free-for-all on skill points. This will kill EVE for me! (This and similar positions actually are a close sibling to Tradition)
I've yet to see a valid argument as to why this new thing will 'break' EVE that isn't coming from one of those 3 mindsets, and I've read a LOT of arguments against it.
Look, you can fight this until you are Icelandic Ice Blue in the face. You can quit the game. Whatever your choice is, constantly posting garbage about it won't change it. So I suggest trying something different:
Ignore it or try it. You might hate/like it either way, or maybe come off ambivalent.
It's not worth the stress to worry about. It probably won't kill or even majorly effect the game. You might see a small price drop on Extractors/Injectors in a few months.
Just Keep Moving Forward... it'll work out.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4498
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 00:12:31 -
[121] - Quote
OMG, SP frenzy!
But, on the other hand, it is the novice usually who gets the famous ace by doing at some moment the unexpected thing.
-Eddie Rickenbacker
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3269
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 00:18:36 -
[122] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anything (anything) that helps and encourages the retention of not only new players but players in general should be commended.
Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox. |
Wanda Fayne
216
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 00:29:58 -
[123] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote:If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw. Can I have your stuff?
You can come, I'll give you the antimatter first
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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Pix Severus
Empty You
4447
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 00:30:10 -
[124] - Quote
I don't know about you guys, but whenever I warp to an asteroid belt, all the miners pack-up and leave immediately.
After this update goes live, combat ships are going to be warping to belts all over highsec. I image some miners are going to have a hard time!
-ì-ä-à -£-à+¦-äGêâ-Ç
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1816
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 00:34:39 -
[125] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:After this update goes live, rookie ships are going to be warping to belts all over highsec.
FTFY
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2965
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 00:38:12 -
[126] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I've yet to see a valid argument as to why this new thing will 'break' EVE that isn't coming from one of those 3 mindsets, and I've read a LOT of arguments against it.
plasticsurgerycandidate2 wrote:Sorry man, but this is a terrible idea. - Feeling forced to log in each day to get your sp - Feeling like you're missing out when you can't log in or forget - Forcing characters that have nothing to do with pve to undock and find an asteroid belt to get their sp - Forcing characters with highly valuable implant sets to risk them for their sp (think what titan/super pilots have) - Will benefit those that stay home from the front lines to rat more than those that deploy for wars - Easier for more skilled players to do as they can 1 volly a npc on their chars whereas newbie players will have to commit several minutes to finding a npc, then killing it. - Newbie players won't realize they can do it on all 3 chars on their account regardless of if they're training. - Newbie players won't necessarily have 3 chars on their account to do it with as they don't realize it's beneficial. - Creates SP out of thin air instead of earning them by spending time training or buying them from someone that spent time training - Penalizes FCs/CEOs/Diplomats/Etc... that don't have the time to undock and find a npc to shoot because they're too busy with other important stuff. - Rewards players for doing next to nothing. Seriously, logging in a char, warping to a belt, killing a npc, and logging out is not going to create content for the game. - Significantly increase the load on the auth servers when chars are logging in and out a lot more frequently. - Keeps players in highsec longer as it's super easy to kill npcs there, whereas lowsec and nullsec npcs might be more challenging. - Greatly impacts the "play how you want" mentality by forcing players to engage in activities they have no interest in or get penalized. - Undermines eve's progression mechanics further than skill injectors already did. - Penalizes those that value their -10 sec status. - Penalizes characters stuck in supercaps (because they don't have a citadel they can dock at) - Penalizes wormhollers that have to scan down a k-space hole and kill a npc outside of w-space each day. - etc... It's a terrible idea that leads to a slippery slope. - SP should be earned through training (either by you or someone else you buy the sp off of) - Forcing players to log in all their characters each day to get extra sp will lead to burnout (i know it won't be sustainable for me with 30 characters, about 21 are just alts for other activities (cynos, etc...)) - Should be limited to new players if introduced at all. CCP Rise wrote:Feedback appreciate as always Sure it is... just like our feedback on the market tax changes was appreciated.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
54894
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 02:10:28 -
[127] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox.
Agree 100% and more importantly, whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?
Before anyone rages on me for standing against this new fountain of free skillpoints I'd like to go on record that I've been a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can ever since I first started playing this game 8 yrs ago.
Some of the very first skills I focused on training to max level were the Learning Skills.
Also as soon as I could afford them I got a full set of +5 Attribute Implants and have never used a Jump Clone since.
Due to long term plans which are still in effect, all of that was done for the reward of gaining max skillpoint training time, despite the huge risk of losing the Implants by being podded. Yes I didn't like it when CCP removed the Learning skills. Yes they cost me lot's of time, effort and ISK to get their reward. Yes those skillpoints were reimbursed and allocated for other skills, however that's not the point. I had already made the decision to forgo training regular skills early in order to gain a higher rate of training time afterwards.
Yes Neural Remapping is used to help increase skill training time but quite frankly it's use is limited and the reward from it is just a small increase in training time. And since I train various skills from different skill groups I decided a long time ago it's not an option I'd greatly miss using.
Skill Injectors. I like the idea of being able to remove skillpoints from a certain skill group to add to another skill group. That's fine since it only re-allocates skillpoints and doesn't increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. However I'm totally against bypassing training time with the ability to buy and increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. Despite what others may say, in reality this is nothing more than pay to win.
Case in point = Brand new character pays to have max level in all skills.
Recurring Opportunities for free skillpoints. NO NO NO. Even though it's a low amount of skillpoints, it still adds up over time and once again it bypasses training time. More importantly, it breaks the sandbox and turns it into more of a theme park. It's a reward that involves little to no risk, great consequences for very little action. In my opinion just another example of CCP's poor planning that's another step towards catering to the Instant Gratification crowd.
Even though I don't like it, guess I'll partake in this new game exploit. Definitely log in every day, warp to a high sec belt, destroy 1 NPC, redock and log out knowing I just gained an extra 10k skillpoints for 5 minutes of time.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
34
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 02:49:34 -
[128] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox.
Agree 100% and more importantly, whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ? Before anyone rages on me for standing against this new fountain of free skillpoints I'd like to go on record that I've been a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can ever since I first started playing this game 8 yrs ago. Some of the very first skills I focused on training to max level were the Learning Skills. Also as soon as I could afford them I got a full set of +5 Attribute Implants and have never used a Jump Clone since.Due to long term plans which are still in effect, all of that was done for the reward of gaining max skillpoint training time, despite the huge risk of losing the Implants by being podded. Yes I didn't like it when CCP removed the Learning skills. Yes they cost me lot's of time, effort and ISK to get their reward. Yes those skillpoints were reimbursed and allocated for other skills, however that's not the point. I had already made the decision to forgo training regular skills early in order to gain a higher rate of training time afterwards. Yes Neural Remapping is used to help increase skill training time but quite frankly it's use is limited and the reward from it is just a small increase in training time. And since I train various skills from different skill groups I decided a long time ago it's not an option I'd greatly miss using. Skill Injectors. I like the idea of being able to remove skillpoints from a certain skill group to add to another skill group. That's fine since it only re-allocates skillpoints and doesn't increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. However I'm totally against bypassing training time with the ability to buy and increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. Despite what others may say, in reality this is nothing more than pay to win. Case in point = Brand new character pays to have max level in all skills.Recurring Opportunities for free skillpoints. NO NO NO. Even though it's a low amount of skillpoints, it still adds up over time and once again it bypasses training time. More importantly, it breaks the sandbox and turns it into more of a theme park. It's a reward that involves little to no risk, great consequences for very little action. In my opinion just another example of CCP's poor planning that's another step towards catering to the Instant Gratification crowd. Even though I don't like it, guess I'll partake in this new game exploit. Definitely log in every day, warp to a high sec belt, destroy 1 NPC, redock and log out knowing I just gained an extra 10k skillpoints for 5 minutes of time. DMC
Have you really only been blown up once in 8 years?
I mean it's great you go on about risk and reward and all, but was the last time you undocked in 2011? |
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
66
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 03:27:09 -
[129] - Quote
At first I was like "naw."
Then I was like "chyah!"
Now I'm like "eh."
More sp for newbros to quickly unlock ships and mods. Something else for me to forget to do on my main.
I set my skill queue to 500 days. That's 5,000,000 sp or 2ish rank 8s worth of "dailies." I won't say no, but I also won't lose sleep over not doing it for weeks at a time. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
54896
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 03:50:43 -
[130] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Have you really only been blown up once in 8 years?
I mean it's great you go on about risk and reward and all, but was the last time you undocked in 2011?
I'll answer your questions even though it's off topic.
Yeah, my ship was destroyed and I was podded only once by PvP even though there's been well over a dozen attempts done by various other players within the past 8 years.
Also you're quite the fool if you think I've never undocked since 2011. I'm a cloaky Nomadic Explorer who also does Event Agent missions. Being safe is all about flying smart.
Obviously you missed the whole point of my post. As I've already said, I'm a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can but in my opinion these Recurring Opportunities is in direct opposition to the core principles of this game.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2580
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 04:03:35 -
[131] - Quote
"F" for the sandbox
Citadel worm hole tax
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
184
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 06:20:02 -
[132] - Quote
WoW did event spam, too. They saw the login count increased for events, so they had more of them.
It went from "Ooh, cool, event!" to "Which one this week? Meh, I'll catch the next one."
Some things just have to stay special.
A signature :o
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Solhild
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2003
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 07:00:30 -
[133] - Quote
Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!) |
Solhild
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2003
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 07:04:42 -
[134] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anything (anything) that helps and encourages the retention of not only new players but players in general should be commended. Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap. The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox.
I agree with this response. This 'may' actually remove casual players who sub their accounts with real cash as they are disadvantaged by not being able to log in and play frequently.
Real shame. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2837
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 07:48:42 -
[135] - Quote
Solhild wrote:Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!)
Every single account is a "real money" one... |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
167
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 07:49:38 -
[136] - Quote
Well, if you are in an semi active corp and you log in to get the SP, there is a big chance you will be convinced to join a fleet ops. I could see how this could increase the amount of time I am online, at least with the ceo I have. So it might increase the activity of some players beyond the five min login to get SP. I guess we will just have to wait and see if the changes are significant and measurable in half a year. Everything else is just predictions and guesswork.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
73
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 08:09:28 -
[137] - Quote
Solhild wrote:Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!)
Can I have your stuff? Else you will buy Plex and CCP will get 14$ more each month then with a 2 subs. They will be impressed with your dedication.
Plex is real money from CCPs side and plexing an account is more expensive then a sub: Plex 19$, sub 12$.
I'm really tired of all these "I'm canceling my sub if CCP doesn't do what I want". Eve has over 500.000 accounts so you can bet that a lot accounts get canceled every month. |
Solhild
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2006
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 08:24:18 -
[138] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Solhild wrote:Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!) Can I have your stuff? Else you will buy Plex and CCP will get 14$ more each month then with a 2 subs. They will be impressed with your dedication. Plex is real money from CCPs side and plexing an account is more expensive then a sub: Plex 19$, sub 12$. I'm really tired of all these "I'm canceling my sub if CCP doesn't do what I want". Eve has over 500.000 accounts so you can bet that a lot accounts get canceled every month.
Ho hum - we all get that most plexes are originally sourced from money, other plexes appear for different reasons. You know this already but are forgetting. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7744
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 10:29:02 -
[139] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:you might get some stuff from those who decide to quit in your alliance, especially when you cant form a fleet because most of your alliance is doing dailies all over the place to get the unique rewards and level up to max raven pilot with golden mount. I don't think shooting one rat will take up that much time. Besides, we already can;t form fleets cos we're a dead alliance right? Right?
Stop being so salty. If you don't like it, say so with your wallet and leave. Simples.
David Therman wrote:If the straw that breaks the camels back is indeed placed upon you, can I have your stuff please? (I did say the magic word) Dammit! If only I'd known the magic word was "camels".
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Dailies do not help retention. Please cite your source. CCPs own research showed them that getting people to log in (via the old 24 hour skill queue method) increased player activity and that activity increases retention. If just logging in to chuck a skill in the queue was enough to generate activity, getting someone to log in and undock every day certain will. And this will be vastly improved when they add more opportunities with other playstyles as it will encourage players who want the rewards to do things they normally wouldn't do.
Wanda Fayne wrote:You can come, I'll give you the antimatter first I don't like being on fire.
Lan Wang wrote:*Giant repost of plasticsurgerycandidate2's post* A good half of those arguments an be responded to with simply "lol, nope". I mean the first bunch and all boil down to the same thing, which reworded could be seen as "If an opportunity exists and I don't take it, then I feel left out thus options existing is forcing me, and if I don't do it I'm unfairly missing out". That in itself is ridiculous, and there's already hundreds of things people could do every day but don;t and therefore already miss out, so how are they not already being forced?
Then there's a few that seem to go on about 3 characters, which is irrelevant since you can only do it on one character per account.
"SP out of thin air", that's a good one since in the last month I've generated at least 50m SP that I previously would not have generated because I've rolled additional characters to do so.
Then we get back onto "some people can't do it" all of which is garbage. An FC or CEO can't shoot a single rat? Complete and utter rubibish.
Then there's the "keeps players in highsec", which it won;t do any more than they already are. Anyone outside of highsec already knows how to shoot a rat, and with these opportunities not existing it's unlikely some in highsec will say "well I'm not being paid SP to shoot one rat so I'll move to lowsec!".
Probably my favourite though is "Penalizes those that value their -10 sec status". Like they can't possibly counter the sec status gain from shooting a single rat.
And all in all it still misses the point that this is the first in a whole range of new opportunities.
I do find it amusing though that he has such an issue with these opportunities, but has no problem suggesting that the feature should be locked to new players only. Because locking content to one type of player is saving the sandbox, right? Newbies will already gain more by it being a fixed amount, allowing them to train whole levels of a skill off of it, while older players will barely notice it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7745
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 10:36:30 -
[140] - Quote
Solhild wrote:Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!) Stuff? I have an additional 32 characters training, and know many others are doing similar, so they might take a while to notice.
Solhild wrote:Ho hum - we all get that most plexes are originally sourced from money, other plexes appear for different reasons. You know this already but are forgetting. Doesn't matter how the PLEX got onto the account, it's still directly tied to income for CCP. Pretending they are going to care more about a credit card paid sub than a PLEX paid sub is fundamentally misunderstanding how the PLEX model works.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
34
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 10:45:01 -
[141] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:
Have you really only been blown up once in 8 years?
I mean it's great you go on about risk and reward and all, but was the last time you undocked in 2011?
I'll answer your questions even though it's off topic. Yeah, my ship was destroyed and I was podded only once by PvP even though there's been well over a dozen attempts done by various other players within the past 8 years. Also you're quite the fool if you think I've never undocked since 2011. I'm a cloaky Nomadic Explorer who also does Event Agent missions. Being safe is all about flying smart. Obviously you missed the whole point of my post. As I've already said, I'm a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can but in my opinion these Recurring Opportunities is in direct opposition to the core principles of this game. DMC
Your opening line set the tone - 'whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?'
Your killboard looks like something that has taken minimal risks to attain maximum rewards, as far as skill points go. This goes against your idea how EVE should be.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
The Wraithguard.
311
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 10:50:44 -
[142] - Quote
I like free SP.
Can we now lose SP when dying in a T3 destroyer? |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1358
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 11:27:15 -
[143] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
|
Dibz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
72
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 11:50:02 -
[144] - Quote
Instead of asking us to blow up an NPC ship why not just increase the SP accumulation rate when your character is logged in? |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
54915
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 13:27:08 -
[145] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:
Have you really only been blown up once in 8 years?
I mean it's great you go on about risk and reward and all, but was the last time you undocked in 2011?
I'll answer your questions even though it's off topic. Yeah, my ship was destroyed and I was podded only once by PvP even though there's been well over a dozen attempts done by various other players within the past 8 years. Also you're quite the fool if you think I've never undocked since 2011. I'm a cloaky Nomadic Explorer who also does Event Agent missions. Being safe is all about flying smart. Obviously you missed the whole point of my post. As I've already said, I'm a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can but in my opinion these Recurring Opportunities is in direct opposition to the core principles of this game. DMC Your opening line set the tone - 'whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?' Your killboard looks like something that has taken minimal risks to attain maximum rewards, as far as skill points go.
Yeah, obviously you didn't comprehend my posted reply. This thread is about Recurring Opportunities giving free skillpoints daily, not about KB stats.
FYI - I don't care about killboard stats, never did and never will. I didn't sub to this game for PvP anyway. Exploration videos by an Eve character named DNightmare is what inspired me to join this game.
As for Risk v Reward, I take plenty of risk traveling through low and null sec space in a clone with +5 Attribute Implants. My reward is faster training time and I've always accepted the consequences of my actions in-game.
By the way, there's a lot more to this game than just KB crap.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7747
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 13:36:59 -
[146] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Instead of asking us to blow up an NPC ship why not just increase the SP accumulation rate when your character is logged in? Probably because that just encourages people to leave themselves logged in but AFK. Anyone playing around the time of downtime could be logged in all the time.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Vollhov Jr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 14:17:18 -
[147] - Quote
Next step: New bounty system.
Red Alliance.
Red Phoenix The Symbol of Revival.
My elder brother: Vollhov
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
21
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 14:25:30 -
[148] - Quote
My wife would love this thread, it has more w(h)ine than Napa Valley.
You would think that CCP said " we are making pvp consensual only everywhere in Eve" OR " We are removing mining and related ships from the game."
But no its over 10k sp you can literally get accidentally while doing something else. you can kill a frig with light drones anywhere in eve... in any system.
Personally i dont think it requires enough effort. I would make it so you get 1 SP for every 50 isk of rat bounty you kill up to 10k SP or something. |
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
34
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 14:33:43 -
[149] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:
Have you really only been blown up once in 8 years?
I mean it's great you go on about risk and reward and all, but was the last time you undocked in 2011?
I'll answer your questions even though it's off topic. Yeah, my ship was destroyed and I was podded only once by PvP even though there's been well over a dozen attempts done by various other players within the past 8 years. Also you're quite the fool if you think I've never undocked since 2011. I'm a cloaky Nomadic Explorer who also does Event Agent missions. Being safe is all about flying smart. Obviously you missed the whole point of my post. As I've already said, I'm a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can but in my opinion these Recurring Opportunities is in direct opposition to the core principles of this game. DMC Your opening line set the tone - 'whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?' Your killboard looks like something that has taken minimal risks to attain maximum rewards, as far as skill points go. Yeah, obviously you didn't comprehend my posted reply. This thread is about Recurring Opportunities giving free skillpoints daily, not about KB stats. FYI - I don't care about killboard stats, never did and never will. I didn't sub to this game for PvP anyway. Exploration videos by an Eve character named DNightmare is what inspired me to join this game. As for Risk v Reward, I take plenty of risk traveling through low and null sec space in a clone with +5 Attribute Implants. My reward is faster training time and I've always accepted the consequences of my actions in-game. By the way, there's a lot more to this game than just KB crap. DMC
So just another forum poster who expects every single feature added to the game to revolve around their play style or they throw a fit, got it.
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1820
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 14:40:42 -
[150] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:You can kill a frig with light drones anywhere in eve... in any system.
Try that in a C6
Quote:Personally i dont think it requires enough effort. I would make it so you get 1 SP for every 50 isk of rat bounty you kill up to 10k SP or something.
Yeah mandatory ratting is just what we need. CCPlease hire this genius!
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5240
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 14:41:18 -
[151] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Dibz wrote:Instead of asking us to blow up an NPC ship why not just increase the SP accumulation rate when your character is logged in? Probably because that just encourages people to leave themselves logged in but AFK. Anyone playing around the time of downtime could be logged in all the time.
Ditto. Also that would put a unnecessary workload on CCP's servers. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
22
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 14:59:31 -
[152] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:You can kill a frig with light drones anywhere in eve... in any system. Try that in a C6 Quote:Personally i dont think it requires enough effort. I would make it so you get 1 SP for every 50 isk of rat bounty you kill up to 10k SP or something. Yeah mandatory ratting is just what we need. CCPlease hire this genius!
Hows this for Genius?Cant kill a rat in a C6? Jump through a WH to another system.
Its not mandatory. Did anyone say " You must login and kill x amount of rats and get x amount of SP and you have no choice?" NO. Mandatory means you dont have a choice. You have a choice, you can either choose to kill rats and collect SP or you can spend more time on the forums complaining about killing rats for sp than it would actually take to undock and kill said rats. Or you can simply ignore the entire feature and go on about your eve life as if it doesnt exist. You have so many choices.
And remember folks, there are only two things you have to do in life. Pay taxes, and die. Everything else is a choice including undocking and killing a rat for SP.
How is that for genius?
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Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 15:12:15 -
[153] - Quote
Haters have the time to post on the forums but can't be bothered to log in and shoot something |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2978
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 15:37:44 -
[154] - Quote
Trader20 wrote:Haters have the time to post on the forums but can't be bothered to log in and shoot something, just switch your forum time to log in.
this is a whole new level of stupidity
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Woodiex3
Paradox Collective
Project.Mayhem.
2
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 16:02:51 -
[155] - Quote
the greed of some people....
well ive just resubbed my 3 accounts (paid ones). :P so CCP must be doing something right. |
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
8
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 16:28:56 -
[156] - Quote
Totally unfair -- this needs to include PC kills. NPCs are run by the game -- therefore no player input -- Pc vs PC will make this a true contest. |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1820
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 16:41:08 -
[157] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:How is that for genius?
Taxation is theft
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
167
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 16:44:30 -
[158] - Quote
Titti Sabezan wrote:Totally unfair -- this needs to include PC kills. NPCs are run by the game -- therefore no player input -- Pc vs PC will make this a true contest.
What a brilliant idea..... why has no one thought of this??? If they do this, I pinky swear I will not kill one of my alts sitting in one of the free ships everyday
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
123
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 16:48:03 -
[159] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Titti Sabezan wrote:Totally unfair -- this needs to include PC kills. NPCs are run by the game -- therefore no player input -- Pc vs PC will make this a true contest. What a brilliant idea..... why has no one thought of this??? If they do this, I pinky swear I will not kill one of my alts sitting in one of the free ships everyday
bth a free noobship is still less reward than killing a rat, and you have to log 2 accounts |
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
8
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 16:58:20 -
[160] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Instead of asking us to blow up an NPC ship why not just increase the SP accumulation rate when your character is logged in?
+1
Or just do away with SP accumulation when not logged in
Or is that too WoW ? |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
54919
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 18:46:22 -
[161] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:
Your opening line set the tone - 'whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?'
Your killboard looks like something that has taken minimal risks to attain maximum rewards, as far as skill points go.
Yeah, obviously you didn't comprehend my posted reply. This thread is about Recurring Opportunities giving free skillpoints daily, not about KB stats. FYI - I don't care about killboard stats, never did and never will. I didn't sub to this game for PvP anyway. Exploration videos by an Eve character named DNightmare is what inspired me to join this game. As for Risk v Reward, I take plenty of risk traveling through low and null sec space in a clone with +5 Attribute Implants. My reward is faster training time and I've always accepted the consequences of my actions in-game. By the way, there's a lot more to this game than just KB crap. DMC So just another forum poster who expects every single feature added to the game to revolve around their play style or they throw a fit, got it.
Wow, you definitely lack reading comprehension. I do PvE and even though this feature of Recurring Opportunities fit's in with how I play the game, I still don't like it. You're either really dense or just a failed troll.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
23
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 19:02:54 -
[162] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:
Your opening line set the tone - 'whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?'
Your killboard looks like something that has taken minimal risks to attain maximum rewards, as far as skill points go.
Yeah, obviously you didn't comprehend my posted reply. This thread is about Recurring Opportunities giving free skillpoints daily, not about KB stats. FYI - I don't care about killboard stats, never did and never will. I didn't sub to this game for PvP anyway. Exploration videos by an Eve character named DNightmare is what inspired me to join this game. As for Risk v Reward, I take plenty of risk traveling through low and null sec space in a clone with +5 Attribute Implants. My reward is faster training time and I've always accepted the consequences of my actions in-game. By the way, there's a lot more to this game than just KB crap. DMC So just another forum poster who expects every single feature added to the game to revolve around their play style or they throw a fit, got it. Wow, you definitely lack reading comprehension. I do PvE and even though this feature of Recurring Opportunities fit's in with how I play the game, I still don't like it. You're either really dense or just a failed troll. DMC
FYI signing your post is so passe. Jump in the 21st century with the rest of us. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
376
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 19:23:09 -
[163] - Quote
"FYI signing your post is so passe. Jump in the 21st century with the rest of us."
Idiot, grow up. |
Hetty Lang
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 20:01:57 -
[164] - Quote
Great to see the skill points that we train so hard for being devalued again, thanks CCP, not |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2838
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 21:05:46 -
[165] - Quote
Titti Sabezan wrote:Totally unfair -- this needs to include PC kills. NPCs are run by the game -- therefore no player input -- Pc vs PC will make this a true contest.
Since when is EVE supposed to be fair? |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2838
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 21:07:36 -
[166] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:
Your opening line set the tone - 'whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?'
Your killboard looks like something that has taken minimal risks to attain maximum rewards, as far as skill points go.
Yeah, obviously you didn't comprehend my posted reply. This thread is about Recurring Opportunities giving free skillpoints daily, not about KB stats. FYI - I don't care about killboard stats, never did and never will. I didn't sub to this game for PvP anyway. Exploration videos by an Eve character named DNightmare is what inspired me to join this game. As for Risk v Reward, I take plenty of risk traveling through low and null sec space in a clone with +5 Attribute Implants. My reward is faster training time and I've always accepted the consequences of my actions in-game. By the way, there's a lot more to this game than just KB crap. DMC So just another forum poster who expects every single feature added to the game to revolve around their play style or they throw a fit, got it. Wow, you definitely lack reading comprehension. I do PvE and even though this feature of Recurring Opportunities fit's in with how I play the game, I still don't like it. You're either really dense or just a failed troll. DMC
Cut your losses man, you won't convince that brick wall... |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
54922
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 21:55:53 -
[167] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
FYI signing your post is so passe. Jump in the 21st century with the rest of us.
Heh, another Doofus who doesn't know the difference between a signature and initials. Gotta say lately the level of trolling in this sub-forum has really gone down in quality.
Hopefully you can understand this - Initials make it a bit more personal whereas a signature is overly formal.
Also this is just for you :
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
34
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 22:39:45 -
[168] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
FYI signing your post is so passe. Jump in the 21st century with the rest of us.
Heh, another Doofus who doesn't know the difference between a signature and initials. Gotta say lately the level of trolling in this sub-forum has really gone down in quality. Hopefully you can understand this - Initials make it a bit more personal whereas a signature is overly formal. Also this is just for you : DMC
For someone who doesn't PvP, you sure do love your name calling. You should try it man and release some of that anger, you might just enjoy it.
|
Mikkal Rune
Ammatar Academy of Sciences
21
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 23:17:17 -
[169] - Quote
What angers me about this is less the mechanic than the reason given for introducing it. For the last three years, CCP and I have had an arrangement: they provide me with an interesting game, and I pay a subscription. But now, it turns out that my money is not good enough for them: if I'm not logging and killing a rat every day, I'm a second-rate customer.
That's unfortunate. Because I really don't like being told how I should be using my time. I have a full-time job and a life. If CCP resents that fact because it means that I don't log in every 24 hours to drive their unlikely spaceships around in their implausible universe, then it's time our ways parted. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
54931
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 01:17:03 -
[170] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
FYI signing your post is so passe. Jump in the 21st century with the rest of us.
Heh, another Doofus who doesn't know the difference between a signature and initials. Gotta say lately the level of trolling in this sub-forum has really gone down in quality. Hopefully you can understand this - Initials make it a bit more personal whereas a signature is overly formal. Also this is just for you : DMC For someone who doesn't PvP, you sure do love your name calling. You should try it man and release some of that anger, you might just enjoy it.
What are you talking about, Doofus is a term of endearment.
Don't know why you're so fixated on me not doing PvP. I had a look at your KB stats and quite frankly you have no room to talk.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 02:06:46 -
[171] - Quote
Hetty Lang wrote:Great to see the skill points that we train so hard for being devalued again, thanks CCP, not
Dragging a skill into the queue, clicking 'apply' and then waiting is hard work?
Does not compute. |
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
8
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 09:41:47 -
[172] - Quote
Mikkal Rune wrote:I really don't like being told how I should be using my time. I have a full-time job and a life. If CCP resent that fact because it means that I don't show up every 24 hours to drive their unlikely spaceships around in their implausible universe, then it's time our ways parted.
+cynic :: Can I haz yur stuf ?? :: -cynic
Much love & sympathy
TS |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
185
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 10:59:37 -
[173] - Quote
The second reply to the announcement thread was:
"No. Just no."
It had 155 likes.
A signature :o
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
2495
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 13:53:30 -
[174] - Quote
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:Hetty Lang wrote:Great to see the skill points that we train so hard for being devalued again, thanks CCP, not Dragging a skill into the queue, clicking 'apply' and then waiting is hard work? Does not compute.
For years you had to stay up in the middle of the night to change your skill or manage them really carefully to not lose training time. Then we got a 24h training queue which made it a lot more convenient but you still had to plan ahead and make sure you are able to login before the last skill ran out.
This days you have no limit and you can just fill in 10 years of skills, click apply and do something else. But for the longest time in EVE history training skills was not just "click apply and then wait".
Yes, the skill Injector and crap like this new daily missions seriously take a dump on the effort people spent for years to accumulate their precious SP.
I personally think this idea is horrible, especially because it is limited to PvE. This would have been a great opportunity to set more incentives to take a risk and not just kill a single rat. I know they say they are just starting with this and there is more to come. They said the same thing for the original opportunities, look how much they added... I believe it when I see the change in the patch notes.
Anyway, since I abused the skill injectors to pay for all my ganker accounts (Gank chars only need a limited amount of SP) now I will still be able to train for the occasionally needed skill to compensate for the next nerf which is probably just around the corner.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 16:41:24 -
[175] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:Hetty Lang wrote:Great to see the skill points that we train so hard for being devalued again, thanks CCP, not Dragging a skill into the queue, clicking 'apply' and then waiting is hard work? Does not compute. For years you had to stay up in the middle of the night to change your skill or manage them really carefully to not lose training time. Then we got a 24h training queue which made it a lot more convenient but you still had to plan ahead and make sure you are able to login before the last skill ran out. This days you have no limit and you can just fill in 10 years of skills, click apply and do something else. But for the longest time in EVE history training skills was not just "click apply and then wait". Yes, the skill Injector and crap like this new daily missions seriously take a dump on the effort people spent for years to accumulate their precious SP.
Ah, you meant all that pointless fiddling about you did in the past. I thought you meant now because you said 'train' not 'trained' in the post I responded to.
I sympathise, I can see how it must be a bit like this has lessened the importance of skill train min-maxing, but it's not the first time they've streamlined SP attainment. A lot of people, me included, trained the learning skills way back when, and doing that was in retrospect pointless too.
I think the best way to look at it is that it's probably going to be a nice little extra boost for new players and not hugely important to high-skilled players, except for those individuals who feel bizarrely obliged to do dailies in order to keep up in an imaginary race with the optimal SP progression curve.
|
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
34
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 16:44:08 -
[176] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
FYI signing your post is so passe. Jump in the 21st century with the rest of us.
Heh, another Doofus who doesn't know the difference between a signature and initials. Gotta say lately the level of trolling in this sub-forum has really gone down in quality. Hopefully you can understand this - Initials make it a bit more personal whereas a signature is overly formal. Also this is just for you : DMC For someone who doesn't PvP, you sure do love your name calling. You should try it man and release some of that anger, you might just enjoy it. What are you talking about, Doofus is a term of endearment. Don't know why you're so fixated on me not doing PvP. I had a look at your KB stats and quite frankly you have no room to talk. DMC
"You see mate, I'm just that dense factory worker, with reading problems. My education was stopped years ago so that poncy brother of mine could go to the Federal Academy and learn to fly all those fancy ships I make him.
Hope is on the horizon for me, opportunities to re-enter education and possibly do more than staring at these factory walls. But no, we have these posh boys who spend 90% of there time in their Captains Quarters, studying, already having more education than they'll ever need, objecting.
The working class people will rise, no longer shackled by our limited education. Stop objecting, embrace change for a better New Eden"
T-Jay Charante
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
74
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 10:00:59 -
[177] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:sero Hita wrote:Titti Sabezan wrote:Totally unfair -- this needs to include PC kills. NPCs are run by the game -- therefore no player input -- Pc vs PC will make this a true contest. What a brilliant idea..... why has no one thought of this??? If they do this, I pinky swear I will not kill one of my alts sitting in one of the free ships everyday bth a free noobship is still less reward than killing a rat, and you have to log 2 accounts
You could make a business out of it: Shoot my alt for 50.000k. No search for the rats or players just undock and blap 10.000SP. |
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
635
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 10:06:13 -
[178] - Quote
Hetty Lang wrote:Great to see the skill points that we train so hard for being devalued again, thanks CCP, not
But there are now less skillpoints around then before extractors and injectors. At least that-¦s what i think.
Because you extracted 500k but only 300 - 400k getting injected (at least i know some people that injected abofe 5.5m) |
Major Xadi
Mercenary Logistics Ltd.
54
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 10:23:45 -
[179] - Quote
Hetty Lang wrote:Great to see the skill points that we train so hard for being devalued again, thanks CCP, not
Yeah, exactly. I haven't used skill injectors and never will. Likewise, I don't won't the "free" skill points.
However, ..... how else will they retain the subs of the immediate gratification crowd? |
Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 10:31:29 -
[180] - Quote
Hetty Lang wrote:Great to see the skill points that we train so hard for being devalued again, thanks CCP, not
The skillpoints you train so hard for? You put them in a queue and wait, that's it, their is no effort there whatsoever. Pay your sub, queue, and wait, zero effort. Please point out the hard work you speak of. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
189
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 11:49:30 -
[181] - Quote
The skill system was good the way it was for this reason:
You set a skill to train, then go off and do whatever you want. You could be a good little grind monkey and mine or mission all day, or you could just wander around this universe and meet people. Or it could be taking a week or two off, which this game's "XP bar" doesn't care about one bit.
This is a concept which seems to be lost on a lot of people. For a lot of people, "do what you want" is "print ISK all day." If that's the game you want to play, fine. If that's the game you want to make us play, expect to get buried in rotten tomatoes. This is a game many of us come to and stayed in to get away from that kind of thing. There are many many MMOs out there where everyone who wants to grind XP all day can do that all the XP grinding they want, so go play those instead. Or make an EVE-like with an XP grind. I've played one of those, so... won't see you there.
For these people, there's a reason for the general hostility toward this idea, and any time a grind-for-faster-skills "option" is presented: this kind of mechanism discourages anything any activity which doesn't get you SP, or anything to trade for it.
If we want to keep newbies, show them the true nature of the game. Show them that they're not safe, and they will get blown away if someone decides it's worth it (or is drunk/tired), and this includes hisec. Show them that scams are OK, that backstabbing is a legitimate strategy. Show them that taking smart risks will get them more rewards. And show them that outcomes are not guaranteed: things can, in fact, go bad and worse. The sooner they find out those little details, the sooner they know if they belong here.
A signature :o
|
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
36
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 11:56:07 -
[182] - Quote
Can we please stop with the notion that shooting a rat for 2 minutes equals grinding for SP/XP all day long. It's making my brain hurt. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
2499
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 12:08:55 -
[183] - Quote
Trader20 wrote:Even in the past with no queues it took an alarm and under a minute to change a skill then back to sleep. It took more effort to get a drink of water in the middle of the night. People saying they stayed up all night to change a skill are being overly dramatic or didn't have an alarm.
You clearly sleep alone.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7759
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 12:13:48 -
[184] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:There are many many MMOs out there where everyone who wants to grind XP all day can do that all the XP grinding they want, so go play those instead. Alternatively we can continue playing EVE as it progresses in ways we enjoy, and people like yourself who can't handle change can be the ones that go play something else.
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:For these people, there's a reason for the general hostility toward this idea, and any time a grind-for-faster-skills "option" is presented: this kind of mechanism discourages anything any activity which doesn't get you SP, or anything to trade for it. Same could be said not only about ISK - which people have actively chased instead of doing other less rewarding activities - but about implants. Implants allow people to generate SP at a faster rate, however having them in means you don't want to lose your pod, so many players simply don't take risks when in a pod kitted out for max SP gains
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:If we want to keep newbies, show them the true nature of the game. Show them that they're not safe, and they will get blown away if someone decides it's worth it (or is drunk/tired), and this includes hisec. Except many newbies don't appreciate being blown up by a veteran player then told to get over it. I'm fine with losing ships because I'm rich enough to buy a new one without giving it a second thought. Having newbies come in and try to progress earning small amounts of isk, then losing it to a veteran who outclasses them in very way isn't necessarily a good thing. These opportunities (being this one and the ones that will follow that are for other activities) give reasons to try out other activities and reward them with progression that can't be easily taken away, so even if they lose their ship they feel like they've gained something, not been reset to the beginning by a random bittervet.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lathael
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise
Evictus.
29
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:19:58 -
[185] - Quote
Let us see how it develops and give developers opportunities (word game!) to try things and see how they act in real environment.
Theorycrafting is a nice thing but in the end we have to see how the ecosystem react on the changes and if it goes wrong, well disable it again.
But until then "stay calm Lathael" is my chant.
I did the same with skill extractors. It was a bit bitter to see some people to be maxed out just by throwing enough money to CCP (bad memories about greed is good); but in the end I have the feeling that I like the extractors.
And to stay in that theme: My character gets 50K skillpoints from a booster which is okay but not awesome.
With 10K each day I can get the effect of a skill extractor all 5 days without spending money. I like that.
We will see the effect on the ecosystem soon. |
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
726
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:28:44 -
[186] - Quote
@Lathael:
You lost a 'zero' somewhere. It-¦s 500k per injector (or a bit less). So the same effect as a free injector every 50 (or less) days. Probably 40 days (for 400k injections).
Or do i miss your poin? |
Ohhhhhh Really
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:55:26 -
[187] - Quote
Finally
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2987
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:57:35 -
[188] - Quote
Ohhhhhh Really wrote:Finally
you make it sound like you have been waiting years for ccp to give you tasks because you feel you cant play without ccp providing content for you
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 16:24:00 -
[189] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Ohhhhhh Really wrote:Finally
you make it sound like you have been waiting years for ccp to give you tasks because you feel you cant play without ccp providing content for you
Logging in is content, you heard it here. |
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
8
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 18:50:24 -
[190] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
Except many newbies don't appreciate being blown up by a veteran player then told to get over it. I'm fine with losing ships because I'm rich enough to buy a new one without giving it a second thought. Having newbies come in and try to progress earning small amounts of isk, then losing it to a veteran who outclasses them in very way isn't necessarily a good thing.
This is EvE. Hello Kitty World is down the corridor
|
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
954
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 19:55:35 -
[191] - Quote
I am also against the creation of SP through any means but training and feel that CCP was deceptive when they claimed that training would remain the only source of new SP.
If you just HAVE to implement this nonsense, then I must ask:
Why does it have to be an npc kill? Why not just a kill?
What SP injecting mechanic are you implementing that would benefit real pla-- I mean, pvpers?
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
718
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 20:05:56 -
[192] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:I am also against the creation of SP through any means but training and feel that CCP was deceptive when they claimed that training would remain the only source of new SP.
If you just HAVE to implement this nonsense, then I must ask:
Why does it have to be an npc kill? Why not just a kill?
What SP injecting mechanic are you implementing that would benefit real pla-- I mean, pvpers?
I'm confused. Why is a member of code saying this? A HS gank is as easy as killing an NPC anyway.... |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
955
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 20:24:44 -
[193] - Quote
I don't do carebear things.
You're asking me to do a carebear thing.
That's gross.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Zathra Narazi
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
24
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 20:26:41 -
[194] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:Can we please stop with the notion that shooting a rat for 2 minutes equals grinding for SP/XP all day long. It's making my brain hurt.
Seriously. Unless you never undock it takes literally 0 extra effort. Just shoot a gate rate as you're going past.
Galaxy Pig wrote:I don't do carebear things.
You're asking me to do a carebear thing.
That's gross.
Nobody is making you. You can refuse to do it and keep making the same SP you do now. If you decide to do it it takes an entire 2 or 3 seconds a day. I think you'll live. |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
955
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 20:28:47 -
[195] - Quote
Also, I don't think the people suggesting: "lol just hop out of your C6 and blap a sleeper XD" have ever even scanned a wormhole in their lives.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
955
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 20:33:45 -
[196] - Quote
"If you decide to do it it takes an entire 2 or 3 seconds a day"
Another gross misrepresentation of how much of a pain in the ass this can be.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2992
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 20:36:32 -
[197] - Quote
Trader20 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Ohhhhhh Really wrote:Finally
you make it sound like you have been waiting years for ccp to give you tasks because you feel you cant play without ccp providing content for you Logging in is content?
is the reward for logging in? did you even read anything?
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
719
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 21:27:47 -
[198] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:I don't do carebear things.
You're asking me to do a carebear thing.
That's gross.
I'm still confused. You only shoot people who can't shoot back in HS. That's as carebear as mining. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
190
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 21:34:08 -
[199] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Alternatively we can continue playing EVE as it progresses in ways we enjoy, and people like yourself who can't handle change can be the ones that go play something else.
A lot of the time, whenever someone wants a game or other franchise to get (or stay) big, they try to appeal to a broader audience, usually the least common denominator. In doing this, they have this habit of losing what made them different and special. And re-opening the market for that somewhere else, if that someone is smart enough to not try to go crazy huge.
Look what they did to the new Star Trek movies: action action action. Lots of fun visuals, but none of the philosophical-type questions which made the older ones Star Trek and unique. They're like re-skinned Star Wars movies.
Or Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic 3. Instead of making an immersive solo-mode KOTOR3, they made SWTOR: WoW in Space With Lots of Expensive Voice Acted Cutscenes. And all the other immersion-breaking MMO things, like other players and respawning mobs. That game failed, so now they harpoon whales instead. That's possible to overdo as well: there were several threads "I went through three hypercrates [about $150] worth of stuff and didn't get super-rare item!" How many of those do you think are going to come back to the cash shop?
Quote:Same could be said not only about ISK - which people have actively chased instead of doing other less rewarding activities - but about implants. Implants allow people to generate SP at a faster rate, however having them in means you don't want to lose your pod, so many players simply don't take risks when in a pod kitted out for max SP gains
The solution is to put a stupid fear-of-missing-out mechanism in? If they're having trouble with people farming SP, extracting it, and selling it, maybe they need to stop selling extractors?
I'd expect most of the bittervets know better than to let it run their game, because it's how they got to be vets. They also know how to draw a line between two points and guess where it's heading.
The "rested XP" system in WoW was designed to slow down the people who had all day to play. The original presentation of it was "You will get less XP if you play too long." The community didn't take it too well. All they changed was the presentation: you get bonus XP if you stay in a rest area, and aside from a few who were paying attention, nobody said anything.
A lot of us are ex- WoW players.
Quote:Except many newbies don't appreciate being blown up by a veteran player then told to get over it. I'm fine with losing ships because I'm rich enough to buy a new one without giving it a second thought. Having newbies come in and try to progress earning small amounts of isk, then losing it to a veteran who outclasses them in very way isn't necessarily a good thing. These opportunities (being this one and the ones that will follow that are for other activities) give reasons to try out other activities and reward them with progression that can't be easily taken away, so even if they lose their ship they feel like they've gained something, not been reset to the beginning by a random bittervet.
Those don't belong here. Learning how to EVE will have you getting your ship getting exploded a lot. If they got all their wealth shot down in one go, they got a cardinal rule of EVE wrong: don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If they don't learn that lesson early, they're going to have a very hard time with the rest of the game.
If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid. -Q
And the other fundamental truth of this game: if you don't go places, meet people, and make friends and enemies, you're probably not going to last very long either, because that rule is even more important than "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
Right. This thing wasn't and still isn't about newbies.
A signature :o
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
The Wraithguard.
314
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 22:01:27 -
[200] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote: "If you decide to do it it takes an entire 2 or 3 seconds a day"
Another gross misrepresentation of how much of a pain in the ass this can be.
Shooting a rat is hard?
I think we should accept this as a gift, a reward for those eager to play and go out and do stuff. It's not a punishment although I can see why some would feel they 'miss out'. The amount of SP involved, however, is pretty slim. Let's not forget that.
Some guys will min/max their stats. Some guys will have implants. I have an alt with more SP than my main because one is in a training clone all the time while the other is flying a Sabre in null (with no implants). Do the guys in a training pod in highsec deserve more SP than active pilots prone to losing their implants? Does it kill you to see someone else earn a meagre amount of extra SP? Do skillpoints really matter that much? |
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
720
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 22:15:46 -
[201] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Shooting a rat is hard?
I think we should accept this as a gift, a reward for those eager to play and go out and do stuff. It's not a punishment although I can see why some would feel they 'miss out'. The amount of SP involved, however, is pretty slim. Let's not forget that.
Some guys will min/max their stats. Some guys will have implants. I have an alt with more SP than my main because one is in a training clone all the time while the other is flying a Sabre in null (with no implants). Do the guys in a training pod in highsec deserve more SP than active pilots prone to losing their implants? Does it kill you to see someone else earn a meagre amount of extra SP? Do skillpoints really matter that much?
I agree that people should just not worry about it and not use it if it affects playstyle. People are so backwards in this game. Let's say you spend 5 minutes/day shooting rats to get your 10k SPs. That's 2.5 hours/month for 330k skillpoints. That's a crazy waste of time to get more skillpoints, given what we have available in game. Spend one extra hour/month working IRL, buy a single plex and get skill injectors.
Has no one heard of the time value of money? Grinding ANYTHING in EVE is horribly inefficient. Do what you enjoy in game and ignore skillpoints. |
KaarBaak
321
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 22:26:43 -
[202] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Shooting a rat is hard?
I think we should accept this as a gift, a reward for those eager to play and go out and do stuff. It's not a punishment although I can see why some would feel they 'miss out'. The amount of SP involved, however, is pretty slim. Let's not forget that.
Some guys will min/max their stats. Some guys will have implants. I have an alt with more SP than my main because one is in a training clone all the time while the other is flying a Sabre in null (with no implants). Do the guys in a training pod in highsec deserve more SP than active pilots prone to losing their implants? Does it kill you to see someone else earn a meagre amount of extra SP? Do skillpoints really matter that much? I agree that people should just not worry about it and not use it if it affects playstyle. People are so backwards in this game. Let's say you spend 5 minutes/day shooting rats to get your 10k SPs. That's 2.5 hours/month for 330k skillpoints. That's a crazy waste of time to get more skillpoints, given what we have available in game. Spend one extra hour/month working IRL, buy a single plex and get skill injectors. Has no one heard of the time value of money? Grinding ANYTHING in EVE is horribly inefficient. Do what you enjoy in game and ignore skillpoints.
What if grinding and accumulating skillpoints is what you enjoy? Or was your post meant ironically?
Just seems funny that you admonish people for not doing whatever they enjoy and then tell them that a certain thing is a waste of time/money.
EvE is weird. |
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
720
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 22:46:55 -
[203] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:What if grinding and accumulating skillpoints is what you enjoy? Or was your post meant ironically?
Just seems funny that you admonish people for not doing whatever they enjoy and then tell them that a certain thing is a waste of time/money.
EvE is weird.
Then by all means grind away. That was my point. Do what you enjoy and don't worry about things you don't like.
I'm just pointing out that if you feel the need to grind to max SP gain, 'grinding' IRL is much, much more time effective. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
291
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 23:33:20 -
[204] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:plasticsurgerycandidate2 wrote:
- Feeling forced to log in each day to get your sp -TRADITION
- Feeling like you're missing out when you can't log in or forget -ENVY/GREED
- Forcing characters that have nothing to do with pve to undock and find an asteroid belt to get their sp -ENVY/LAZY
- Forcing characters with highly valuable implant sets to risk them for their sp (think what titan/super pilots have) -FALSE/FEARMONGERING
- Will benefit those that stay home from the front lines to rat more than those that deploy for wars -ENVY/GREED
... and on and on
I'm not going to go over the rest of that list, anyone can dump those items into the right buckets. The 3 buckets I gave were more than capable of fitting every complaint I've seen against the recurring daily SP thing. Nothing said shows how it will BREAK EVE as per my original comment.
I log into EVE once, occasionally twice, a week. I'm not out there crying "Unfair", "This will Break EVE", "OMG you guys are so evil because I don't have the time for this!"... even though it's understandable. I can't benefit much.
Then again, I'm not from the social injustice, everything has to be fair, life must be balanced by some external force, generation. I work every weekday, and have major home projects every week end. I have a family and fit EVE in once a week, twice if I can find a spare moment. I enjoy the game and this daily thing doesn't bug me one little bit. If you can take advantage of it every day, then KUDOS to you, go for it. If not, then you're like me. Don't whine about it, work hard and keep working hard while having fun in the game.
Stop complaining and start doing.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
958
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 01:15:37 -
[205] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:I don't do carebear things.
You're asking me to do a carebear thing.
That's gross. I'm still confused. You only shoot people who can't shoot back in HS. That's as carebear as mining.
Your tears are NECTAR.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1824
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 03:25:19 -
[206] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:Can we please stop with the notion that shooting a rat for 2 minutes equals grinding for SP/XP all day long. It's making my brain hurt.
W.O.R.M.H.O.L.E.
If this required you to kill an incursion rat each day people would be flipping out because that's a lot of effort. Well. That's exactly what ratting is lIke in upper class wormholes. But CCP always ignores wormholers when they make stupid changes (see watchlist).
And yes. Doing something stupid and tedious every day is a grind even if it's short. PI takes just a few minutes but if you do it every day it's a horrific grind and you quickly resent it.
So can we just stop with the whole "it's not a grind" nonsense? It's the very definition of a grind.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2843
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 03:44:06 -
[207] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:Can we please stop with the notion that shooting a rat for 2 minutes equals grinding for SP/XP all day long. It's making my brain hurt. W.O.R.M.H.O.L.E. If this required you to kill an incursion rat each day people would be flipping out because that's a lot of effort. Well. That's exactly what ratting is lIke in upper class wormholes. But CCP always ignores wormholers when they make stupid changes (see watchlist). And yes. Doing something stupid and tedious every day is a grind even if it's short. PI takes just a few minutes but if you do it every day it's a horrific grind and you quickly resent it. So can we just stop with the whole "it's not a grind" nonsense? It's the very definition of a grind.
You can always not do it if it bother you that much to "grind"... |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2843
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 03:46:09 -
[208] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:I don't do carebear things.
You're asking me to do a carebear thing.
That's gross.
You are absolutely free to refuse to do the task given and in doing so, forfeit the 10k SP. |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
958
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 04:20:58 -
[209] - Quote
So carebears get extra SP handed to them for doing their mundane daily carbear things. Cool. I mean, really lame and stupid, but whatever, cool beans.
All I'm wondering is how non-carebears are going to be awarded SP for the things they regularly do.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
The Wraithguard.
316
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 04:26:03 -
[210] - Quote
You'll figure something out. The code always wins, remember? |
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
729
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 06:28:28 -
[211] - Quote
A long time ago...
there was no "warp to 0" for stargates. People had TONS over TONS and even MORE TONS of bookmarks for every system. If you warped from gate a to gate b you had a bookmark 15 km behind the gate, so you can warp at 15 and land at 0. Ofc you had another set of bookmarks for a warp from gate a to c. And so on. There was a own "industry wing" bookmarking the whole universe. Copying the bookmarks was pain (at least!).
Then ccp announced the new feature "warp to zero". OMG the outcry was so loud you could almost hear it on your muted headsets.
THIS IS THE END OF EVE! --- and that-¦s like 8 or10 years ago? I realy doesnt matter, was QUITE some time ago.
I-¦m not in fear of EvE for this minor change. If it will turn out to be good or bad we-¦ll see - if it-¦s bad ccp will fix it. They want us to enjoy their baby. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1457
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 09:53:22 -
[212] - Quote
Fozzie already said once when he joined a wormhole alliance teamspeak that he does not like people living in wormholes. Guess they're adding more nails every patch cycle.
"it's just one rat"
Thank you for your input but a c5/6 rat is not "just" a rat.
Having to roll/scan for lower class wormholes or k-space to get this "incentive" is just another poorly thought out change that ignores wormhole people again. |
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
735
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 09:57:35 -
[213] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Fozzie already said once when he joined a wormhole alliance teamspeak that he does not like people living in wormholes. Guess they're adding more nails every patch cycle.
"it's just one rat"
Thank you for your input but a c5/6 rat is not "just" a rat.
Having to roll/scan for lower class wormholes or k-space to get this "incentive" is just another poorly thought out change that ignores wormhole people again.
That might be true (i have no WH experience), but you can still nip the skillpoints with an alt outside the wh. It doesnt even need to skill something. With a extractor you can sell those SP or hand them over (whenever you want to)... this sounds so familiar. I said this allready? |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1459
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 10:03:01 -
[214] - Quote
So now I have to make an alt, log out of my main and then go shoot a rat on the alt, wait until the alt has over 5.5m sp (earning 10k a day this will take me a year and a half), then buy an extractor and get the sp to then sell for 600m?
I certainly will not be injecting it into my main as I am well over 50m sp and 600mil ISK profit over a year and a half is almost laughable. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
The Wraithguard.
316
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 10:10:06 -
[215] - Quote
Out of curiosity ... don't you rat in wormholes anyway? |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1459
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 10:14:42 -
[216] - Quote
You do sometimes, but it's not exactly an activity you can casually do like warping into a belt with a rookie ship and orbit 500+F1 |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 10:39:55 -
[217] - Quote
And still the point seems to be missed that this is just a start opportunity to a system that will introduce many more. I'm sure the will even be wormhole specific ones which will make highsec players cry about how they have to go all the way into a wormhole for their reward.
It's an optional task, and if it's too much effort of you don't want to do it, then don't. Quit crying when CCP are actually adding things to the game. If it truly upsets you then unsub, you will not be missed.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 10:51:23 -
[218] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:So carebears get extra SP handed to them for doing their mundane daily carbear things. Cool. I mean, really lame and stupid, but whatever, cool beans.
All I'm wondering is how non-carebears are going to be awarded SP for the things they regularly do.
Well if they start giving out SP for crying on the forums about how CODE is misunderstood, you'll be knee-deep in them. |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 10:56:11 -
[219] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Fozzie already said once when he joined a wormhole alliance teamspeak that he does not like people living in wormholes. Guess they're adding more nails every patch cycle.
"it's just one rat"
Thank you for your input but a c5/6 rat is not "just" a rat.
Having to roll/scan for lower class wormholes or k-space to get this "incentive" is just another poorly thought out change that ignores wormhole people again.
You'll never get me living in a WH if I've got to suffer being called 'wormhole people'. That sounds absolutely filthy lol. |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 10:58:28 -
[220] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And still the point seems to be missed that this is just a start opportunity to a system that will introduce many more. I'm sure the will even be wormhole specific ones which will make highsec players cry about how they have to go all the way into a wormhole for their reward.
Lol this will be glorious. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2995
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:02:34 -
[221] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And still the point seems to be missed that this is just a start opportunity to a system that will introduce many more. I'm sure the will even be wormhole specific ones which will make highsec players cry about how they have to go all the way into a wormhole for their reward.
It's an optional task, and if it's too much effort of you don't want to do it, then don't. Quit crying when CCP are actually adding things to the game. If it truly upsets you then unsub, you will not be missed.
im pretty sure if enough people get annoyed and quit because of dailies then they will be missed. As you say many more will be added till you have to dedicate any online time doing these tasks, this will affect fleet attendance and encourage solo play.
Im not at the stage yet to quit over this, time will tell, when they add more and more dailies and require facebook integration and constantly harrass me about doing these dailies then it will become an issue. its optional, we know its optional but dailies are designed to make you feel like you are losing something if not done, adding things to the game? chores to quickly increase login numbers is not adding something, they could have been soo much more creative with this sort of thing
Its funny though, whenever you dont agree with something you will argue for 40+ pages with multi-quotes, yet if others dont agree with something we should simply "stop crying" and "unsub"
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:14:31 -
[222] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:im pretty sure if enough people get annoyed and quit because of dailies then they will be missed. As you say many more will be added till you have to dedicate any online time doing these tasks, this will affect fleet attendance and encourage solo play. Yeah, but then I don't believe many people will quit. I mean seriously, if them adding what effectively boils down to a 6m isk reward for a daily task causes people to quit the entire game, then they can't like the game that much.
Lan Wang wrote:Im not at the stage yet to quit over this, time will tell, when they add more and more dailies and require facebook integration and constantly harrass me about doing these dailies then it will become an issue. its optional, we know its optional but dailies are designed to make you feel like you are losing something if not done, adding things to the game? chores to quickly increase login numbers is not adding something, they could have been soo much more creative with this sort of thing I'm pretty sure they'd lose half their playerbase if they required facebook integration. Increasing login numbers is a good thing, as like their research shows, getting people past that login screen encourages other activities. I can't count the number of times I've logged into update a single order and ended up playing for an hour. I totally believe they will be more creative with them, they just need to start somewhere, and a simple, easily completeable task for a wide audience is a great start.
Personally I'd like to see a full on achievements system so there's tasks with varying degrees of complexity and reward. I know that being a sandbox having fixed paths is not a good idea, but having optional tasks that reward even just things like medals in your character sheet can really help move people out of their comfort zone.
Lan Wang wrote:Its funny though, whenever you dont agree with something you will argue for 40+ pages with multi-quotes, yet if others dont agree with something we should simply "stop crying" and "unsub" That's not quite the case, jsut there was no real argument to discuss in his post. He's living in a wormhole supposedly not killing rats and killing a rat is too much effort therefore he thinks the feature shouldn't exist. I don't live in wormholes, and going into a wormhole is too much effort, therefore wormholes shouldn't exist. Would you consider that a reasonable argument?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Onsa Dawes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:14:45 -
[223] - Quote
So I just killed an NPC but didn't get anything |
Ohhhhhh Really
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:23:58 -
[224] - Quote
Onsa Dawes wrote:So I just killed an NPC but didn't get anything
Ditto. On 2 characters / accounts. |
Brain Damage Balowski
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:25:08 -
[225] - Quote
same, went to a hideaway, killed 2 rats. nada |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:26:50 -
[226] - Quote
Sounds like a successful CCP patch day
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:27:37 -
[227] - Quote
Stopped a thief. Nothing.
Maybe it really was a late April Fools' joke?
Or they won't count for another 22h.
... and it showed up on screen as I was warping back. |
Rumbless
43
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:28:08 -
[228] - Quote
It might be like the bounty tick I think. So wait 20 mins :) |
Brain Damage Balowski
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:32:00 -
[229] - Quote
okay i relogged and now i have a recurring opportunities thing |
Rumbless
43
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:40:12 -
[230] - Quote
Brain Damage Balowski wrote:okay i relogged and now i have a recurring opportunities thing
BINGO it works and is instant.
Yep now it works. Sadly whoever is in your fleet will also have to kill one. More work for me. |
Sykes Makar
EVE University
Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:42:00 -
[231] - Quote
Rumbless wrote:Brain Damage Balowski wrote:okay i relogged and now i have a recurring opportunities thing
BINGO it works and is instant. Yep now it works. Sadly whoever is in your fleet will also have to kill one. More work for me.
Yeah, but mission rats work as well, even though it's not mentioned in the text in-game. So just grab a low level mission and let everyone smack a ship.
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:42:58 -
[232] - Quote
Any idea if it's only the killing blow that gets it? Or most damage, or anyone on the kill?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:46:20 -
[233] - Quote
Unsubbed like 2 month ago. Playing it now aslong as I can plex the two accounts I have. CCP wont get any $$ from me anymore. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2995
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:48:11 -
[234] - Quote
"you updated a market order and ended up playing for an hour" - additional dailies added will cover this time, you'll be logging in for an hour to do dailies then logging out, so you wont be interacting you will simply be doing chores like everyone else.
I kind of agree with the wormhole post, its similar to an rp'ers point where i either have to do a mission (finish mission or lose standings) or jump a ship a load of jumps so im not shooting my own faction rats.
But its implemented anyway so this post is pointless, enjoy the daily chores.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Rumbless
43
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:48:14 -
[235] - Quote
Actually that made no sense. |
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:51:37 -
[236] - Quote
Rumbless wrote:Actually that made no sense.
Nop. If I want to play with "features" like this I can play browsergames that are for free. |
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
742
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:55:01 -
[237] - Quote
But you dont play the feature, you play the game.
I highly doubt there is a game like EvE in your free browsergames pool. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1459
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 11:56:33 -
[238] - Quote
I'm organising daily krab sessions for my corpmates as we speak |
Brain Damage Balowski
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:06:56 -
[239] - Quote
cyno V
if you want n00bs to suffer like that train you heart must be cold as stone. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
193
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:06:57 -
[240] - Quote
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:But you dont play the feature, you play the game.
I highly doubt there is a game like EvE in your free browsergames pool.
There is.
First person to correctly identify it in an EVE mail gets 20M. I'd deliver a king missile with it, but nothing is in flyable condition.
A signature :o
|
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
38
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:07:18 -
[241] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Rumbless wrote:Actually that made no sense. Nop. If I want to play with "features" like this I can play browsergames that are for free.
"Hey guys, i unsubbed months ago, but because they introduced this feature I'm going to unsub"
My brain, it hurtsssssss.
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:12:51 -
[242] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Unsubbed like 2 month ago. Playing it now aslong as I can plex the two accounts I have. CCP wont get any $$ from me anymore. If you don't need to train skills anymore you can plex entirely from SP extraction. Plus using plex actually give CCP slightly more $$ than other forms of payment, as people pay a premium for plex.
Lan Wang wrote:"you updated a market order and ended up playing for an hour" - additional dailies added will cover this time, you'll be logging in for an hour to do dailies then logging out, so you wont be interacting you will simply be doing chores like everyone else. I probably won't be doing the opportunities at all because I'm not one to feel forced to do something if it's an option, and I have other things I'll be doing that don't involve rats. I just don't demand that a feature is scrapped if I don't benefit from it.
Lan Wang wrote:I kind of agree with the wormhole post, its similar to an rp'ers point where i either have to do a mission (finish mission or lose standings) or jump a ship a load of jumps so im not shooting my own faction rats. And the answer is the same, either put in the effort or don't, that's your choice, but the implementation of options for players should not be contingent on your personal benefit.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:20:27 -
[243] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:Ni Neith wrote:Rumbless wrote:Actually that made no sense. Nop. If I want to play with "features" like this I can play browsergames that are for free. "Hey guys, i unsubbed months ago, but because they introduced this feature I'm going to unsub" My brain, it hurtsssssss.
Your brain must be hurting a while....it produces something I have never said. |
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
38
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:27:13 -
[244] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:Ni Neith wrote:Rumbless wrote:Actually that made no sense. Nop. If I want to play with "features" like this I can play browsergames that are for free. "Hey guys, i unsubbed months ago, but because they introduced this feature I'm going to unsub" My brain, it hurtsssssss. Your brain must be hurting a while....it produces something I have never said.
Ni Neith wrote:
Unsubbed like 2 month ago.
Ok
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1713
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:27:50 -
[245] - Quote
Logged in, did my forced daily, logged out and went back to RL work.
I hope CCP, that's the way you intended this to be used, right? |
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:29:13 -
[246] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Ni Neith wrote:
Unsubbed like 2 month ago.
Ok
Reading and/or logic isn't your strong suit. Let's leave it at that. |
Rumbless
43
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:30:04 -
[247] - Quote
I'm loving this. Shorter training time = Win. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:31:00 -
[248] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Logged in, did my forced daily, logged out and went back to RL work.
I hope CCP, that's the way you intended this to be used, right? If even 1% of people who log in to do their daily stay online to do something else, they win. I'm sure there will be plenty of people doing it as some form of protest, but I'd wager there will be enough people who get dragged in to make it worth it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:32:12 -
[249] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Reading and/or logic isn't your strong suit. Let's leave it at that. No, he's got a legitimate point, you claimed to have unsubbed 2 months ago yet are still subbed now (hence your ability to post on the forum) so if anyone's logic is flawed, it would be yours.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Gerbert Kruger
RGSU
Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:33:44 -
[250] - Quote
Now we will have a Korean MMO? They are very much so. This is the beginning of the end. I propose and ask to write massive petition ... |
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:35:28 -
[251] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ni Neith wrote:Reading and/or logic isn't your strong suit. Let's leave it at that. No, he's got a legitimate point, you claimed to have unsubbed 2 months ago yet are still subbed now (hence your ability to post on the forum) so if anyone's logic is flawed, it would be yours.
I am not subbed..I am plexed...go back to school, kid. |
Drago Septimus
Hell Brothers
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:35:31 -
[252] - Quote
Gerbert Kruger wrote:Now we will have a Korean MMO? They are very much so. This is the beginning of the end. I propose and ask to write massive petition ...
+1 |
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
743
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:44:57 -
[253] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ni Neith wrote:Reading and/or logic isn't your strong suit. Let's leave it at that. No, he's got a legitimate point, you claimed to have unsubbed 2 months ago yet are still subbed now (hence your ability to post on the forum) so if anyone's logic is flawed, it would be yours. I am not subbed..I am plexed...go back to school, kid.
And the PLEX you use are generated out of warm air?
(just so there is no ping-pong needed: even if you buy PELX on market in jita SOMEONE payed RL money for them). |
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:49:19 -
[254] - Quote
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:
And the PLEX you use are generated out of warm air?
(just so there is no ping-pong needed: even if you buy PELX on market in jita SOMEONE payed RL money for them).
And? Like I care. It is not my money. And I said CCP wont get MY money. Like I said, go back to school for reading and understanding lessons. Also I am not planning to grind for plex so it wont hold long. |
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
38
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:49:46 -
[255] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ni Neith wrote:Reading and/or logic isn't your strong suit. Let's leave it at that. No, he's got a legitimate point, you claimed to have unsubbed 2 months ago yet are still subbed now (hence your ability to post on the forum) so if anyone's logic is flawed, it would be yours. I am not subbed..I am plexed...go back to school, kid.
Posting about how you decided 2 months ago, not give any more money to CCP , but you use this feature to tell everyone how you aren't going to give CCP any more money 
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1826
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:50:35 -
[256] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Logged in, did my forced daily, logged out and went back to RL work.
I hope CCP, that's the way you intended this to be used, right?
I'm in a wormhole.
Guess I'll just go to work..
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
508
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 12:56:49 -
[257] - Quote
Older players don't need the extra Skillpoints anymore and won't do it because most of us are lazy ;) New players have a little bit more progression and can fly their new ship a little bit earlier.
Much drama about nothing.
Implementation could be better though. |
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
743
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:00:04 -
[258] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Logged in, did my forced daily, logged out and went back to RL work.
I hope CCP, that's the way you intended this to be used, right? I'm in a wormhole. Guess I'll just go to work..
Create an alt to collect the skillpoints. |
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:00:44 -
[259] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:Posting about how you decided 2 months ago, not give any more money to CCP , but you use this feature to tell everyone how you aren't going to give CCP any more money
Unsubbed 2 month ago, dicided not to give CCP any more money today. I blame your school for your bad understanding skills. |
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
122
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:02:05 -
[260] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Logged in, did my forced daily, logged out and went back to RL work.
I hope CCP, that's the way you intended this to be used, right? I'm in a wormhole. Guess I'll just go to work..
I seem to recall that there are "Hostile NPC's" that live in wormholes. No child left behind! |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2843
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:02:31 -
[261] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:"you updated a market order and ended up playing for an hour" - additional dailies added will cover this time, you'll be logging in for an hour to do dailies then logging out, so you wont be interacting you will simply be doing chores like everyone else. I kind of agree with the wormhole post, its similar to an rp'ers point where i either have to do a mission (finish mission or lose standings) or jump a ship a load of jumps so im not shooting my own faction rats. But its implemented anyway so this post is pointless, enjoy the daily chores.
Depends how it's implemented. They could add any number of them but limit each account to let's say 3 reward/cycle. Then most people would be able to find 3 they would normally do during their game play and still make it so you can do it all relatively fast so you still have time to do other things with your game time. If they don't put a cap, then people will definitely burn out by forcing themselves to do even more stuff they dislike in the name of MOAR SP.
For the people who feel forced to do them, there is effectively nothing that can be done unless the feature goes away because you could probably have them punch themselves in the crotch on a daily basis if it awarded SP... Their best bet is a repeat of the "team" situation. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:03:41 -
[262] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:I am not subbed..I am plexed...go back to school, kid. Paying with plex is paying the sub. You must be subbed to post on this forum, it's really that simple.
Reported for personal attack.
Ni Neith wrote:Unsubbed 2 month ago, dicided not to give CCP any more money today. I blame your school for your bad understanding skills. You are giving them money. Every time you use a plex their accountants yell "cha-ching!".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
743
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:04:37 -
[263] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Raging Bull Unchained wrote:
And the PLEX you use are generated out of warm air?
(just so there is no ping-pong needed: even if you buy PELX on market in jita SOMEONE payed RL money for them).
And? Like I care. It is not my money. And I said CCP wont get MY money. Like I said, go back to school for reading and understanding lessons. Also I am not planning to grind for plex so it wont hold long.
If you want to be understood correctly give us ALL information that is in your mind... :) |
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
38
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:07:21 -
[264] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:T-Jay Charante wrote:Posting about how you decided 2 months ago, not give any more money to CCP , but you use this feature to tell everyone how you aren't going to give CCP any more money Unsubbed 2 month ago, dicided not to give CCP any more money today. I blame your school for your bad understanding skills.
It's always nice to see people that can't spell simple words question other people's schooling. |
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:09:27 -
[265] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:
It's always nice to see people that can't spell simple words question other people's schooling.
Yep, but this wont solve your lack of understanding logic in any way.
BTW... is your brain better now? |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7783
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:13:11 -
[266] - Quote
Just FYI guys, I have 16 accounts with 48 training characters, but I'm not subbed. No way are CCP making money out of me!
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1826
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:15:31 -
[267] - Quote
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Logged in, did my forced daily, logged out and went back to RL work.
I hope CCP, that's the way you intended this to be used, right? I'm in a wormhole. Guess I'll just go to work.. Create an alt to collect the skillpoints.
So I can transfer them at extreme cost and terrible efficiency? Why didn't I think of that?
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7785
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:18:03 -
[268] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:So I can transfer them at extreme cost and terrible efficiency? Why didn't I think of that? Sounds like since you're living in a wormhole but don't ever jump through other wormholes or kill rats it's pretty inefficient anyway. I guess you'll just have to not take part in the entirely optional task. Don't worry, I probably won't be doing it either.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1826
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:23:07 -
[269] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:So I can transfer them at extreme cost and terrible efficiency? Why didn't I think of that? Sounds like since you're living in a wormhole but don't ever jump through other wormholes or kill rats it's pretty inefficient anyway. I guess you'll just have to not take part in the entirely optional task. Don't worry, I probably won't be doing it either.
I get around so I'll probably get it done in low sec fairly often. It's the principle of the matter though. Wormholes are never considered.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
743
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:28:25 -
[270] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Raging Bull Unchained wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Logged in, did my forced daily, logged out and went back to RL work.
I hope CCP, that's the way you intended this to be used, right? I'm in a wormhole. Guess I'll just go to work.. Create an alt to collect the skillpoints. So I can transfer them at extreme cost and terrible efficiency? Why didn't I think of that?
Let-¦s take rough prices from right now today. You could get a skill extractor for 200m. Get those skillpoints on an alt. Sell it for 600m. Visit a pleasurehub in dodixie - oh, you never leave that WH?
I m not saying it-¦s ideal, but you can get a boost from it (yeah, you "wormholepeople" got more then enough isk) |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7785
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:28:26 -
[271] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:I get around so I'll probably get it done in low sec fairly often. It's the principle of the matter though. Wormholes are never considered. Well if it makes you feel better, I'm sure they will be when they add more daily opportunities, and if they don't feel free to call on me to help argue for their inclusion. This one is just the easy, wide reaching opportunity to iron the kinks out of the system and be accessible to as many players as possible. I see ones for PvP, industry, wormholes, exploration and all sorts of other activities in the future.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
123
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:29:13 -
[272] - Quote
Aaaand it's live |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
964
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 13:44:03 -
[273] - Quote
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:So carebears get extra SP handed to them for doing their mundane daily carbear things. Cool. I mean, really lame and stupid, but whatever, cool beans.
All I'm wondering is how non-carebears are going to be awarded SP for the things they regularly do. Well if they start giving out SP for crying on the forums about how CODE is misunderstood, you'll be knee-deep in them.
This thread isn't even about CODE., are you obsessed? Back on topic, please.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1461
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 14:01:37 -
[274] - Quote
Recurring opportunities disabled! Hopefully for good. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
1650
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 14:03:44 -
[275] - Quote
Well they just turned it off for some reason. But I went in my mission, shot the first rat and ka-ching 10,000 SP, which I am very happy to have, thanks CCP.
I really don't understand why all these entitled bitter HTFU players are complaining, its only one rat that you have to shoot.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
1461
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 14:05:18 -
[276] - Quote
Just to clarify, CCP has disabled it because it has been exploited to gain more than the intended 10k SP per 22 hour cycle.
I wonder for those who have not had the opportunity to log on, will we be getting 100k SP to match those who have "made creative use of game mechanics"? |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1826
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 14:11:11 -
[277] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Just to clarify, CCP has disabled it because it has been exploited to gain more than the intended 10k SP per 22 hour cycle.
I wonder for those who have not had the opportunity to log on, will we be getting 100k SP to match those who have "made creative use of game mechanics"?
Everyone except wormholers, if I had to guess
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 14:43:19 -
[278] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Just to clarify, CCP has disabled it because it has been exploited...
It is not an exploit! It is a feature! |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
448
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 14:51:31 -
[279] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Just FYI guys, I have 16 accounts with 48 training characters, but I'm not subbed. No way are CCP making money out of me!
Not sure if Troll or just really doesn't understand how PLEX works?
PLEX is not seeded by CCP in game, it has to be bough through channels by another player and then redeemed into game. All PLEX was originally bought by a player.
I know however that CCP does have some PLEX that they have confiscated from "Gold Traders"/RMTers that they sometimes sell to keep the market less volatile, and even this stockpile was originally redeemed into the game through the above means.
So whilst you "PLEX" your account, you are still using someone's money to play the game.
EDIT: Grammar and Spelling |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7789
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 15:13:44 -
[280] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Just FYI guys, I have 16 accounts with 48 training characters, but I'm not subbed. No way are CCP making money out of me! Not sure if Troll or just really doesn't understand how PLEX works? PLEX is not seeded by CCP in game, it has to be bough through channels by another player and then redeemed into game. All PLEX was originally bought by a player. I know however that CCP does have some PLEX that they have confiscated from "Gold Traders"/RMTers that they sometimes sell to keep the market less volatile, and even this stockpile was originally redeemed into the game through the above means. So whilst you "PLEX" your account, you are still using someone's money to play the game. *facepalm*
Read back a bit and you'll see me saying the same to Ni Neith. The quote you've got above is my sarcastic response to his claim that he is not subbed because his account is plexed and how he's done that to deny CCP money.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
452
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 15:18:11 -
[281] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Caldari 5 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Just FYI guys, I have 16 accounts with 48 training characters, but I'm not subbed. No way are CCP making money out of me! Not sure if Troll or just really doesn't understand how PLEX works? PLEX is not seeded by CCP in game, it has to be bough through channels by another player and then redeemed into game. All PLEX was originally bought by a player. I know however that CCP does have some PLEX that they have confiscated from "Gold Traders"/RMTers that they sometimes sell to keep the market less volatile, and even this stockpile was originally redeemed into the game through the above means. So whilst you "PLEX" your account, you are still using someone's money to play the game. *facepalm* Read back a bit and you'll see me saying the same to Ni Neith. The quote you've got above is my sarcastic response to his claim that he is not subbed because his account is plexed and how he's done that to deny CCP money.
Oh ok :) Hadn't read the thread in full yet. |
Eliott Maelstrom
Space And Astrogeological Research Foundation
Separatists
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 19:08:58 -
[282] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I noticed today that the "Recurrent Opportunities" were live and tried it out.
I am sure this is meant for players to be more active and go out and about in New Eden to do stuff. Much like the increased brokers fee forced my trading alt out of the station to get that standing up so I wouldn't be ripped off each time I placed a sell order.
Which I am perfectly fine with actually because it provided another element that I had to deal with in order to streamline my operations as much as possible. i.e increased level of difficulty.
However, regarding Recurrent Opportunities.
It INSTANTLY made me think of another game that I played for years, (Yes it was WOW, please don't hate me everyone) and I cannot say it was a good feeling.
Recurrent opportunities or "dailies" is a slippery slope, ultimately it will ruin the game. Logging in to do something that in this case will grant you just shy of 4 MILLION SP each year is just too good to pass on. Consequently I will log in everyday and do this daily with no increase in content what so ever. And the only outcome is turning players into mindless busy-workers feeling like they have to complete this task or else they will lose out. NEVER a good feeling.
Trust me, I know, and anyone else who played WOW knows.
Now lets look at that example, WOW.
They started with dailies and then they expanded on the subject much like you have planned. Introducing "content" like this might be easy and you might think "Hey lets make some more so players can spend some more time each day doing this and in the process they might come across some pvp or contesting over the dailies".
I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers...
I am not even going to debate on the issue that the reward for these dailies are SP. I am sure you can guess my thoughts on that.
PLEASE CCP do not ruin the game. It does not need to be easier, it does not need to constantly keep you occupied, it does not need to force you to log in. We still will, but not if you take away the reason so many of us play this game and that being it's unforgiving and relentless nature.
Anyway, those are just my thought as an experienced mmorpg player...
|
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
65
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 20:23:26 -
[283] - Quote
@ Eliott Maelstrom
for me it mean I will still do whatever I do normally, run some mission, explore some cosmic signature, mine, run alts around to do Pi and R&D agents. Simply I will get a bonus on every account for doing that.
I can change a bit the order in which I do things, as I could want to get the extra SP on my main or one of the alts, but it will not make me a na automaton running after the reward.
If I had less SP, maybe, but I would probably have less character too. it become really bad only if you have several accounts. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4871
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 20:52:55 -
[284] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:CCP have obviously not listened to the reasons why this is a bad idea, and are going full fled idiocy with no brakes.
No real response from CCP regarding the issues with it. They obviously do not give a rats arse. This is what they said in their skill injector blog 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Shows you what the word of CCP is worth really when less than a year later they change their minds.
Not much reason for a CSM if this is the response from CCP. Thanks for not listening CCP.
Bring back Unifex. Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it. I give it two thumbs up! its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle
What play style does it incentivize?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Vollhov Jr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:15:52 -
[285] - Quote
Path to nowhere.
Bad idea.
Red Alliance.
Red Phoenix The Symbol of Revival.
My elder brother: Vollhov
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4871
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:16:03 -
[286] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:]Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it.
I give it two thumbs up! People that don't hate it should and/or have been led to believe that this kind of gameplay is anything but detrimental to the fundamental aspect of eve as was intended. The sandbox and the premise of not having goals thrust upon the person. CCP's holier than thou attitude of game design because they have had a monopoly on sandbox entertainment for some time is leading them down the path of conformity. A list of why Recurring Opportunities are bad 1. This breaks the sandbox. Instead of setting your own goals this is about a time based CCP set goal. It wowifies eve using EA level mechanics which have already been proved to be detrimental to other games. 2. It proves that CCP are dishonest when in the skill injector blog they say 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' It proves that CCP are no longer the same developers that sang HTFU. 3. Eve is supposed to be hard. The original idea of eve being hard is undercut when you add easy dailies. 4. Driving new players into mind-numbing pve options in a pvp game will not convince them to stay. 5. SP are in my opinion supposed to be a unique commodity like gold, you can make money but new gold is impossible. Skill extractors take from an already existing pool, they evaporate some SP and the rest is in the injector. This is good. The new way is SP faucets in the form of dailies, yay! 6. It damages other peoples playstyles if they for example choose to be pacifist. Instead of playing their way, they are being driven towards the rocky shore of daily tasks. 7. It actively discriminates against time limited players. If you only have 2 hours a week people who have more can not only always have more SP than you but also a part of your precious 2 hours are spent doing something mind numbing instead of something exciting, something YOU would like to do instead of playing catch up. 8. It hurts mission running in certain areas regarding standings, if for example you are doing Serpentis missions, if you kill a Serpentis npc to get your SP you lower your faction standing with Serpentis which can hurt what missions you can do. If you are stuck in a region with only Serpentis npcs, what can you do in order not to hurt your standings?
Wow talk about throwing stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks.
1. Isn't time always a factor in game? Time is what determined the rate at which you acquire SP which in turn determined a considerable amount of what you could do (fly a BS, use a T2 module, etc.). If anything, this changes it that a little bit.
2. This is a good point and I'd like to see this point addressed by CCP.
3. Okay, but gaining SP has always been stupidly easy. You just set up your training queue and log in now and then to update it.
4. Much of what new players can do is mind numblingly boring. Mining and missions, IMO, suck donkey balls. Trading is boring. Ratting sucks too. PvP is about the only thing that is not horribly boring. I have to do some of these boring things so I can afford the ships for PvP, but generally speaking they are boring.
5. Brand spanking new SP are created every day in vast quantities.
6. Not getting a benefit is not imposing a cost nor damaging. If I win the lottery and get millions are you somehow made poorer?
7. No, if anything it provides an additional benefit for time limited players. Now you can log in blap a single rat and get a nice reward. Shouldn't take too terribly long.
8. So, go shoot another type of rat in another region.
So out of your 8 I see 1 where you really had a good point. Should have ran with that one.
Personally, I imagine this will be something newer players take more advantage of. I won't be using it much. Depending on how it works, is shooting a rat with a bunch of other people sufficient? If so I'll get some extra SP on occasion when an FC has us shoot the gate rats. Other than that, I doubt I'll get this benefit very often and I certainly will not be logging in every day just to get it. I have 135 million SP already. Getting 10,000 each day is not much...at least not enough for me to feel like I need to log in every single day and go shoot a rat. It is called opportunity cost.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
41
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:16:37 -
[287] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:CCP have obviously not listened to the reasons why this is a bad idea, and are going full fled idiocy with no brakes.
No real response from CCP regarding the issues with it. They obviously do not give a rats arse. This is what they said in their skill injector blog 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Shows you what the word of CCP is worth really when less than a year later they change their minds.
Not much reason for a CSM if this is the response from CCP. Thanks for not listening CCP.
Bring back Unifex. Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it. I give it two thumbs up! its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle What play style does it incentivize?
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4871
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:24:04 -
[288] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Dear CCP,
I noticed today that the "Recurrent Opportunities" were live and tried it out.
I am sure this is meant for players to be more active and go out and about in New Eden to do stuff. Much like the increased brokers fee forced my trading alt out of the station to get that standing up so I wouldn't be ripped off each time I placed a sell order.
Which I am perfectly fine with actually because it provided another element that I had to deal with in order to streamline my operations as much as possible. i.e increased level of difficulty.
However, regarding Recurrent Opportunities.
It INSTANTLY made me think of another game that I played for years, (Yes it was WOW, please don't hate me everyone) and I cannot say it was a good feeling.
Recurrent opportunities or "dailies" is a slippery slope, ultimately it will ruin the game. Logging in to do something that in this case will grant you just shy of 4 MILLION SP each year is just too good to pass on. Consequently I will log in everyday and do this daily with no increase in content what so ever. And the only outcome is turning players into mindless busy-workers feeling like they have to complete this task or else they will lose out. NEVER a good feeling.
Trust me, I know, and anyone else who played WOW knows.
Now lets look at that example, WOW.
They started with dailies and then they expanded on the subject much like you have planned. Introducing "content" like this might be easy and you might think "Hey lets make some more so players can spend some more time each day doing this and in the process they might come across some pvp or contesting over the dailies".
I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers...
I am not even going to debate on the issue that the reward for these dailies are SP. I am sure you can guess my thoughts on that.
PLEASE CCP do not ruin the game. It does not need to be easier, it does not need to constantly keep you occupied, it does not need to force you to log in. We still will, but not if you take away the reason so many of us play this game and that being it's unforgiving and relentless nature.
Anyway, those are just my thought as an experienced mmorpg player...
I'll leave this here for you.
Opportunity Cost
And yes, I'll likely be passing up much of that "free" SP.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4871
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:30:34 -
[289] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:CCP have obviously not listened to the reasons why this is a bad idea, and are going full fled idiocy with no brakes.
No real response from CCP regarding the issues with it. They obviously do not give a rats arse. This is what they said in their skill injector blog 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' Shows you what the word of CCP is worth really when less than a year later they change their minds.
Not much reason for a CSM if this is the response from CCP. Thanks for not listening CCP.
Bring back Unifex. Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it. I give it two thumbs up! its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle What play style does it incentivize? the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
That is completely outrageous. I demand a recount.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Shawn Sukara
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:30:55 -
[290] - Quote
i like this feature, nice small bonus, but encourges people to log in. how is this a bad thing?
also it is only 10k sp and 3.5 million in a ENTIRE YEAR assuming you logged on every day......
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4871
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:32:29 -
[291] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:"you updated a market order and ended up playing for an hour" - additional dailies added will cover this time, you'll be logging in for an hour to do dailies then logging out, so you wont be interacting you will simply be doing chores like everyone else. I kind of agree with the wormhole post, its similar to an rp'ers point where i either have to do a mission (finish mission or lose standings) or jump a ship a load of jumps so im not shooting my own faction rats. But its implemented anyway so this post is pointless, enjoy the daily chores. Depends how it's implemented. They could add any number of them but limit each account to let's say 3 reward/cycle. Then most people would be able to find 3 they would normally do during their game play and still make it so you can do it all relatively fast so you still have time to do other things with your game time. If they don't put a cap, then people will definitely burn out by forcing themselves to do even more stuff they dislike in the name of MOAR SP. For the people who feel forced to do them, there is effectively nothing that can be done unless the feature goes away because you could probably have them punch themselves in the crotch on a daily basis if it awarded SP... Their best bet is a repeat of the "team" situation.
I too like to do things I really dislike because....well...uhhh....*reasons*
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
738
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:37:30 -
[292] - Quote
Same talk about injectors 3 months ago, over 200 pages, mostly criticism...Now most people are used to them, same thing will happen to "dailies". The game does not obligate you to do them, plus you can earn the bonus just by doing your usual activities, so It will pass, like every time. It sure needs to develop in some way though. I know CCP can handle it. |
KaarBaak
322
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 21:56:41 -
[293] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:]Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it.
I give it two thumbs up! People that don't hate it should and/or have been led to believe that this kind of gameplay is anything but detrimental to the fundamental aspect of eve as was intended. The sandbox and the premise of not having goals thrust upon the person. CCP's holier than thou attitude of game design because they have had a monopoly on sandbox entertainment for some time is leading them down the path of conformity. A list of why Recurring Opportunities are bad 1. This breaks the sandbox. Instead of setting your own goals this is about a time based CCP set goal. It wowifies eve using EA level mechanics which have already been proved to be detrimental to other games. 2. It proves that CCP are dishonest when in the skill injector blog they say 'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' It proves that CCP are no longer the same developers that sang HTFU. 3. Eve is supposed to be hard. The original idea of eve being hard is undercut when you add easy dailies. 4. Driving new players into mind-numbing pve options in a pvp game will not convince them to stay. 5. SP are in my opinion supposed to be a unique commodity like gold, you can make money but new gold is impossible. Skill extractors take from an already existing pool, they evaporate some SP and the rest is in the injector. This is good. The new way is SP faucets in the form of dailies, yay! 6. It damages other peoples playstyles if they for example choose to be pacifist. Instead of playing their way, they are being driven towards the rocky shore of daily tasks. 7. It actively discriminates against time limited players. If you only have 2 hours a week people who have more can not only always have more SP than you but also a part of your precious 2 hours are spent doing something mind numbing instead of something exciting, something YOU would like to do instead of playing catch up. 8. It hurts mission running in certain areas regarding standings, if for example you are doing Serpentis missions, if you kill a Serpentis npc to get your SP you lower your faction standing with Serpentis which can hurt what missions you can do. If you are stuck in a region with only Serpentis npcs, what can you do in order not to hurt your standings? Wow talk about throwing stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks. 1. Isn't time always a factor in game? Time is what determined the rate at which you acquire SP which in turn determined a considerable amount of what you could do (fly a BS, use a T2 module, etc.). If anything, this changes it that a little bit. 2. This is a good point and I'd like to see this point addressed by CCP. 3. Okay, but gaining SP has always been stupidly easy. You just set up your training queue and log in now and then to update it. 4. Much of what new players can do is mind numblingly boring. Mining and missions, IMO, suck donkey balls. Trading is boring. Ratting sucks too. PvP is about the only thing that is not horribly boring. I have to do some of these boring things so I can afford the ships for PvP, but generally speaking they are boring. 5. Brand spanking new SP are created every day in vast quantities. 6. Not getting a benefit is not imposing a cost nor damaging. If I win the lottery and get millions are you somehow made poorer? 7. No, if anything it provides an additional benefit for time limited players. Now you can log in blap a single rat and get a nice reward. Shouldn't take too terribly long. 8. So, go shoot another type of rat in another region. So out of your 8 I see 1 where you really had a good point. Should have ran with that one. Personally, I imagine this will be something newer players take more advantage of. I won't be using it much. Depending on how it works, is shooting a rat with a bunch of other people sufficient? If so I'll get some extra SP on occasion when an FC has us shoot the gate rats. Other than that, I doubt I'll get this benefit very often and I certainly will not be logging in every day just to get it. I have 135 million SP already. Getting 10,000 each day is not much...at least not enough for me to feel like I need to log in every single day and go shoot a rat. It is called opportunity cost.
It seems like the bulk of the naysayers' posts come down to #6. They feel like just because it's there, it's something they have to do. The same argument can be made for datacore harvesting, planetary resources, incursions, etc. Let alone mining, mission running or even PvP.
By not doing the dailies you don't lose anything. I'll be doing as several folks have posted...going about the same activities I've always done and will occasionally get a bump of SP in the course I'm sure. Great. But if I miss it for a day..a week...a month...I'm no worse off. Comparing yourself to everyone else (eeek...I'm falling behind char X in SP accumulation) seems like a recipe for eternal negativity. You're always going to be behind someone in SP.
Not to mention, as I recall pilots are often commenting that it's not the SP accumulation that 'makes' a pilot...it's their actual skill at piloting (and fitting) their ship. If you put your ruler away (or whatever measuring device you prefer) and stop constantly setting your self-worth in relation to other people...you'll be much more relaxed behind the wheel. |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1829
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 22:00:04 -
[294] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
KaarBaak
322
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 22:05:43 -
[295] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though.
If that were the daily task...would you still complain? |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1829
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 22:16:20 -
[296] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though. If that were the daily task...would you still complain?
No, because it suits me and actually promotes player interaction. I wouldn't actively support it either though.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Eliott Maelstrom
Space And Astrogeological Research Foundation
Separatists
6
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 22:25:18 -
[297] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Dear CCP,
I noticed today that the "Recurrent Opportunities" were live and tried it out.
I am sure this is meant for players to be more active and go out and about in New Eden to do stuff. Much like the increased brokers fee forced my trading alt out of the station to get that standing up so I wouldn't be ripped off each time I placed a sell order.
Which I am perfectly fine with actually because it provided another element that I had to deal with in order to streamline my operations as much as possible. i.e increased level of difficulty.
However, regarding Recurrent Opportunities.
It INSTANTLY made me think of another game that I played for years, (Yes it was WOW, please don't hate me everyone) and I cannot say it was a good feeling.
Recurrent opportunities or "dailies" is a slippery slope, ultimately it will ruin the game. Logging in to do something that in this case will grant you just shy of 4 MILLION SP each year is just too good to pass on. Consequently I will log in everyday and do this daily with no increase in content what so ever. And the only outcome is turning players into mindless busy-workers feeling like they have to complete this task or else they will lose out. NEVER a good feeling.
Trust me, I know, and anyone else who played WOW knows.
Now lets look at that example, WOW.
They started with dailies and then they expanded on the subject much like you have planned. Introducing "content" like this might be easy and you might think "Hey lets make some more so players can spend some more time each day doing this and in the process they might come across some pvp or contesting over the dailies".
I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers...
I am not even going to debate on the issue that the reward for these dailies are SP. I am sure you can guess my thoughts on that.
PLEASE CCP do not ruin the game. It does not need to be easier, it does not need to constantly keep you occupied, it does not need to force you to log in. We still will, but not if you take away the reason so many of us play this game and that being it's unforgiving and relentless nature.
Anyway, those are just my thought as an experienced mmorpg player...
I'll leave this here for you. Opportunity CostAnd yes, I'll likely be passing up much of that "free" SP.
I get it, a simpler way of putting it would be to say you have to prioritize. We all already do that, I for one can't possibly do all the things I would need to do in a day.
As this entire mechanic is aimed at new / newer players, they are also the ones who will be subject to the pitfalls of this as it expands. Not today, not tomorrow and probably not this year. But as the current player base is refreshed with time it will be progressively worse.
We have the luxury of hindsight, why not use it?
|
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7790
|
Posted - 2016.05.24 22:35:34 -
[298] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Recurrent opportunities or "dailies" is a slippery slope, ultimately it will ruin the game. People said that about a lot of changes, generally incorrectly.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Consequently I will log in everyday and do this daily with no increase in content what so ever. Literally impossible.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:feeling like they have to complete this task or else they will lose out. NEVER a good feeling. They already miss out on hundreds of other activities they could partake in each day. Why does the limit make it worse? And why do people not freak out if they don't complete the epic arcs they can only repeat once every three months?
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers... And not only is WOW still an absolutely massive game with a huge amount of revenue, but the existence of dailies is not generally considered one of it's major failings. The utter destruction of old content in cataclysm and the introduction of kung fu panda however...
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:that being it's unforgiving and relentless nature. So wait, it's unforgiving and relentless, but if they add missions you can complete once per day, that all goes away? It's not and has never been unforgiving and relentless since the only thing you can really lose is ISK, which is dead easy to make, and the introduction of recurring opportunities won't change a thing about that regardless.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 01:35:26 -
[299] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though. If that were the daily task...would you still complain?
CODE. could do away with mining permits on its less active characters.
"I shot that Venture for my daily 10k SP" would be a perfectly valid excuse. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
74
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 06:46:51 -
[300] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:KaarBaak wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though. If that were the daily task...would you still complain? No, because it suits me and actually promotes player interaction. I wouldn't actively support it either though.
It suit your you, sure.
Player interaction? People would shot an alt, 0 player interaction. |
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
219
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 07:55:32 -
[301] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Player interaction? People would shot an alt, 0 player interaction.
What we have is any better?
Quote:Player interaction? People would shoot a rat, 0 player interaction.
Just say NO to Dailies
|
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 08:00:21 -
[302] - Quote
The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
602
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 08:02:04 -
[303] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers... And not only is WOW still an absolutely massive game with a huge amount of revenue, but the existence of dailies is not generally considered one of it's major failings. The utter destruction of old content in cataclysm and the introduction of kung fu panda however...
Blizzard is actually changing their approach to dailies system. So there is some backfire in gameplay. They want them more ingame involving. Doing 1,5 minute chore is quite the opposite.
I am the 85%
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
The Wraithguard.
320
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 08:08:39 -
[304] - Quote
I'm clearly not opposed to the whole idea. There is however, the matter of precedents: "The Hunt" earns you 10k SP, fine .... what if several more of these opportunities get implemented? What if I can earn 10k for shooting a rat, another 10k for scanning down a site, perhaps 10k on top for shooting a player and 10k for mining a roid?
As long as we're talking 10k SP a day it's acceptable - yet I'm not comfortable with other players getting 40-50k SP extra on a daily basis. Because at that point we're making expensive implants a joke, and people only able to play during the weekend would indeed start falling behind despite paying the same monthly fee.
2ct from Yours Truly, |
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 09:31:56 -
[305] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I'm clearly not opposed to the whole idea. There is however, the matter of precedents: "The Hunt" earns you 10k SP, fine .... what if several more of these opportunities get implemented? What if I can earn 10k for shooting a rat, another 10k for scanning down a site, perhaps 10k on top for shooting a player and 10k for mining a roid?
As long as we're talking 10k SP a day it's acceptable - yet I'm not comfortable with other players getting 40-50k SP extra on a daily basis. Because at that point we're making expensive implants a joke, and people only able to play during the weekend would indeed start falling behind despite paying the same monthly fee.
2ct from Yours Truly,
They already did make +5s a lot less effective:
Skill formula is:
[Primary attribute] + [Secondary Attribute / 2] every minute. So...
+5s - 10800
+4s - 08640
+3s - 06480
+2s - +04320
+1s - +02160
Running a daily for all but the craziiest is almost as good as a pair of +5s.
For someone who's willing to hit the 22h mark extremely religiously, it beats +5s, at a theoretical 10909 SP/day. Whatever is able to do exactly that for very long will end up with negative infinity skillpoints, because it clearly isn't human.
Remapping from 20/20 to 27/21 is another 10800. So , for somene who can kill a rat every day, it's almost as good as remapping to perfect from starter attributes.
"Only able to play the weekend" is already going to fall behind, but you can spend money for plex for injectors to "catch back up." See what else they did there? |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7799
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 09:41:51 -
[306] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Blizzard is actually changing their approach to dailies system. So there is some backfire in gameplay. They want them more ingame involving. Doing 1,5 minute chore is quite the opposite. I imagine with EVE, the opposite would be true though. If CCP created dailies that were very involved, the screams of "themepark MMO" would be heard from space. At the same time the benefits of having daily goals are obvious, hence their use in most mmos. I'm sure over time they will evolve to be more than just shooting a single NPC, but I wouldn't expect them to become too involved or time consuming.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
750
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 09:46:08 -
[307] - Quote
Kaybella Hakaari wrote:
They already did make +5s a lot less effective:
[...]
I can-¦t see why the +5 work less effective. That would mean they "generate" less skillpoints.
But thatt-¦s not the case. The skillpoints are coming from different sources. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1774
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 09:48:00 -
[308] - Quote
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey.
Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'.
And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Eliott Maelstrom
Space And Astrogeological Research Foundation
Separatists
7
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 10:16:41 -
[309] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers... And not only is WOW still an absolutely massive game with a huge amount of revenue, but the existence of dailies is not generally considered one of it's major failings. The utter destruction of old content in cataclysm and the introduction of kung fu panda however... Blizzard is actually changing their approach to dailies system. So there is some backfire in gameplay. They want them more ingame involving. Doing 1,5 minute chore is quite the opposite.
You must realize that I don't compare the full dailies / garrison setup with one recurrent opportunity, but how do you think all that started?
I don't see how it's relevant that Blizzard is changing their approach to dailies? |
Eliott Maelstrom
Space And Astrogeological Research Foundation
Separatists
7
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 10:35:14 -
[310] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Recurrent opportunities or "dailies" is a slippery slope, ultimately it will ruin the game. People said that about a lot of changes, generally incorrectly.
It is not something that will happen overnight, like I said in my original post.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Consequently I will log in everyday and do this daily with no increase in content what so ever. Literally impossible.
Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument?
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:feeling like they have to complete this task or else they will lose out. NEVER a good feeling. They already miss out on hundreds of other activities they could partake in each day. Why does the limit make it worse? And why do people not freak out if they don't complete the epic arcs they can only repeat once every three months?
Simply because the incentives for these are not SP based.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers... And not only is WOW still an absolutely massive game with a huge amount of revenue, but the existence of dailies is not generally considered one of it's major failings. The utter destruction of old content in cataclysm and the introduction of kung fu panda however...
If you played the game then I'm sure you know that logging in to do dailies wasn't much fun at all.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:that being it's unforgiving and relentless nature. So wait, it's unforgiving and relentless, but if they add missions you can complete once per day, that all goes away? It's not and has never been unforgiving and relentless since the only thing you can really lose is ISK, which is dead easy to make, and the introduction of recurring opportunities won't change a thing about that regardless.
[/quote]
It's easy to cherry pick sentences from my post and hammer down on them but you have to look at the post in it's entirety. In truth, this isn't so bad. But what I am trying to convey are my concerns about the future. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7800
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 11:29:40 -
[311] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:It is not something that will happen overnight, like I said in my original post. It's not something that's going to happen at all. You'll wait for the game to die for any reason at all, no matter how unrelated, then blame it on changes like this. Kinda like how Trammel takes the blame for UO even though there were a mountain of other failings.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Simply because the incentives for these are not SP based. SP can be bought for ISK, so if the incentives are isk based, that can be rapidly translated to SP incentives.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:If you played the game then I'm sure you know that logging in to do dailies wasn't much fun at all. I did, and no, if you log in solely to do dailies in a game you don;t enjoy, then you won't find it fun, but when I played and enjoyed WoW, I certainly did put in a little extra effort to complete some dailies every day I could (particularly dungeon based ones) and very much enjoyed it. It just gave a bit more of an incentive to log on each day, which is good. The people that play them are people who feel that opportunities for reward force them to play, and those people should seek immediate professional help for their addiction.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:It's easy to cherry pick sentences from my post and hammer down on them but you have to look at the post in it's entirety. In truth, this isn't so bad. But what I am trying to convey are my concerns about the future. I did look at it in it's entirety, it's just easier to break down responses point by point than to address the whole post in a slew of text. I'd say let's worry about the future in the future, eh? As with most slippery slope arguments, progress can be halted at the point the line is about to be broken, we shouldn't hold back on positive changes because we fear somewhere down the line bad decisions might be made.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Lathael
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise
Evictus.
31
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 11:49:35 -
[312] - Quote
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:@Lathael:
You lost a 'zero' somewhere. It-¦s 500k per injector (or a bit less). So the same effect as a free injector every 50 (or less) days. Probably 40 days (for 400k injections).
Or do i miss your poin?
@Raging Bull: You are right a digit was missing.
80 million or more Skill Points at time of use = 150.000 unallocated Skill Points |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1831
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 12:25:50 -
[313] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:KaarBaak wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though. If that were the daily task...would you still complain? No, because it suits me and actually promotes player interaction. I wouldn't actively support it either though. It suit your you, sure. Player interaction? People would shot an alt, 0 player interaction.
There's so many ways to fix that. Make you shoot a unique person each day...trial accounts don't count, etc. Not that I should have to justify why shooting an alt is less interesting than shooting a rat.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1089
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 12:40:00 -
[314] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:
1. This breaks the sandbox. Instead of setting your own goals this is about a time based CCP set goal. It wowifies eve using EA level mechanics which have already been proved to be detrimental to other games.
They hired EA's head of monetization. Soon there after we got skill injectors and daily opportunities.
I have no problem with skill injectors or this. Both are a waste of time to me and if you want to get a measly 10k SP a day by doing something insanely boring then knock yourself out.
I will agree their picking up speed on the slippery slope but their doing an decent job of implementing this stuff so far.
Not today spaghetti.
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1775
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 12:45:58 -
[315] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:...decent job of implementing this stuff so far.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1090
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 12:54:55 -
[316] - Quote
While I can see the other side of the argument I've also seen companies go full on sell out mode and make it so the more money you spend the bigger the benefit.
Imagine if CCP made it skill injectors gave the same amount of SP but at 50 million SP you had to pay twice as much to get 500k SP and 100 million you had to pay 4 times as much.
As far as the daily opportunities go, who gives a sh!t about 10k SP per day? I mean really it's not the SP that you guys are breaking out the pitchforks for it's the idea behind it. Guess what? This is a niche game at best. CCP is trying to get new people by creating 'catch up' mechanics. You guys don't care about the good of EVE you just complain about change at every turn.
If you want to question my stance on this stuff go look up my post history. I was one of the biggest advocates for keeping skill injectors out of the game when they first announced it but the way it was implemented was great and it turned out to be a good thing for EVE.
Not today spaghetti.
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1775
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 13:05:48 -
[317] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:While I can see the other side of the argument I've also seen companies go full on sell out mode and make it so the more money you spend the bigger the benefit.
actually i've commented on 'implementing this stuff'. Dailies system was broken right from the start (who could even imagine killing rats with area-effect weapons??? ) and was disabled like 30 minutes after DT? I would not say that this way of implementing things is 'decent'.
Sexy Cakes wrote:
CCP is trying to get new people by creating 'catch up' mechanics. You guys don't care about the good of EVE you just complain about change at every turn.
'catching up' in Eve existed for many years already. The tool called 'character bazaar'.
And you know what? To achieve 100% 'catch up' for new players CCP needs to remove SP and ISK from the game. And make it so every player has access to each item and everything is free. Only then your imaginary 'new player' will be 'on par' with us 'bittervets'.
However your imaginary 'new player' will still lack game knowledge so then CCP would need to kill all the complexity of Eve Online so it is clear and empty right from the start.
Congratulations! Now you have perfect 'catch up'-enabled game! Would you play it tho? Me - don't.
You really sure you want to go this road?
Sexy Cakes wrote:...it turned out to be a good thing for EVE.
Side question: how do you know it? Right now skill injectors/extractors made the game free for me (i have SP farm) but i have no ideas about effect on the game.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2857
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 14:55:16 -
[318] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
The problem is not the game but the playerbase who will do the stupidest thing in the name of faster SP. You will ahve people do stupid **** in that name all the time until CCP decide we all get SP at a flat rate no matter what and I really don't see that happening. |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 15:29:46 -
[319] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
Those people are failing at the min-maxing game imo because they ignore opportunity cost in their formulas. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4875
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 15:54:03 -
[320] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:It seems like the bulk of the naysayers' posts come down to #6. They feel like just because it's there, it's something they have to do. The same argument can be made for datacore harvesting, planetary resources, incursions, etc. Let alone mining, mission running or even PvP.
By not doing the dailies you don't lose anything. I'll be doing as several folks have posted...going about the same activities I've always done and will occasionally get a bump of SP in the course I'm sure. Great. But if I miss it for a day..a week...a month...I'm no worse off. Comparing yourself to everyone else (eeek...I'm falling behind char X in SP accumulation) seems like a recipe for eternal negativity. You're always going to be behind someone in SP.
Not to mention, as I recall pilots are often commenting that it's not the SP accumulation that 'makes' a pilot...it's their actual skill at piloting (and fitting) their ship. If you put your ruler away (or whatever measuring device you prefer) and stop constantly setting your self-worth in relation to other people...you'll be much more relaxed behind the wheel.
Correct. If I want to PvP I have to do one of the following:
1. Make ISK in game via PvE which is, IMO, generally horrible. Ratting sucks, missions suck, PI sucks, and mining sucks. Personally I pick the ones that for me suck the least.
2.I open up my wallet, buy a PLEX and sell it for ISK in game.
3.Scam people, which has the potential downside of damaging your reputation in game, but hey you can always do it on alt nobody knows about.
ThatGÇÖs pretty much it. I have to do one of these things if I want to PvP. So all these arguments about having to do something is largely complete Bravo Sierra.
Second, if I walk by $10 lying on the ground I am not made worse off by not picking it up, even if somebody else notices it and picks it up I am still not made worse off. Further, the greater my personal wealth the less significant that $10 becomes. This last notion gets back to opportunity cost which everybody gets when it comes to mining your own minerals (well, usually in that many people either ignore transaction costs, and some even conclude that mining is a worthless endeavor), but fail to grasp the larger meaning. The more SP I have, the less benefit IGÇÖm getting from that 10,000 SP/day. So the more SP I acquire that should be negatively correlated to logging in just to get that 10,000 SP/day. If I am logging in and getting that SP would be part of my normal activitiesGǪfine, but if not I should not feel like I have to do, just like a person should not feel like they have to look for that penny they dropped and rolled off in some random direction.
If you have 50, 60, 100 million SP and you are still feeling compelled to log in for that 10,000 SP/dayGǪokay, but maybe you should see a doctor about that OCD.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4875
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 16:10:25 -
[321] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:
I get it, a simpler way of putting it would be to say you have to prioritize. We all already do that, I for one can't possibly do all the things I would need to do in a day.
As this entire mechanic is aimed at new / newer players, they are also the ones who will be subject to the pitfalls of this as it expands. Not today, not tomorrow and probably not this year. But as the current player base is refreshed with time it will be progressively worse.
We have the luxury of hindsight, why not use it?
I would argue that new players who will likely feel more compelled to use this mechanic are also logging in more frequently early on in their Eve GÇ£careerGÇ¥ and that they also get bigger benefit. 100,000 SP will feel like a lot of SP to a guy with 1,000,000 SP than a guy with 100,000,000 SP. In the first case heGÇÖll see a 10% bump in his SP, whereas the second guy will only see a 0.1% bump. Further, as the new playerGÇÖs SP goes up he should feel less and less inclined to log in to get that GÇ£freebieGÇ¥.
Further, the benefits of more SP is declining. That is, while more SP is better than less SP the marginal gain is decreasing over time. Yes, I have 135 million SP. But SP in say jump freighters is not helpful if I am in an interceptor fighting a guy in a similar ship or even a different ship. Similarly for my SP in fighters, large guns, and carriers. In that context they are all worthless in the benefit they provide in that context.
So over time a player should absolutely not feel compelled to log in just to do the dailies. If you do, maybe you should sit down and re-examine your life. Seriously. Try talking to somebody and see if maybe your priorities arenGÇÖt just a tad bit out of whack.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4875
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 16:16:19 -
[322] - Quote
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:Kaybella Hakaari wrote:
They already did make +5s a lot less effective:
[...]
I can-¦t see why the +5 work less effective. That would mean they "generate" less skillpoints. But thatt-¦s not the case. The skillpoints are coming from different sources.
Actually, they aren't. If you don't want to log in for awhile and you want to keep building SP, this is a nice way to, in effect, do the daily.
Funny how people argue on the one hand: People will be overcome by extreme OCD and log in every day and do this and start hating the game.
Then on the other hand: +5s, which give slightly more, daily SP are no worthless and nobody will use them!
Guys, forget the treatment for your OCD, I highly recommend you get help for your schizophrenia.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4875
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 16:19:36 -
[323] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
No, getting them all to V would take MONTHS, not a month. The second tier learning skills, IIRC, were like a rank 5 skill meaning each one would take a month--i.e. 5 months for just those. The tier 1 learning skills you might get to 5 across the board in a month.
Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4875
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 16:22:36 -
[324] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content.
I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ).
Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2860
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 16:31:28 -
[325] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content. I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ). Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target.
Who care about the circumstance? Every time a player undock, that player is a potential target which mean content. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4875
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 16:38:10 -
[326] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content. I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ). Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target. Who care about the circumstance? Every time a player undock, that player is a potential target which mean content.
That too. You become a potential target for a gank, being logged in makes you a potential target for a scam, or just seeing more people in system.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
332
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 22:36:36 -
[327] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
The problem is that you'd have to choose between learning the basic skills to get out and fight in a suitably-fit frig or learning the learning skills which would help you learn the frig skills faster.
So, you spend a week learning skills to get out and pvp...then a few weeks getting learning skills up...then get into a regular skill plan.
Or, you spend a week or two getting those first learning skills (and consuming 3d party knowledge) and 2 days getting those basic frigate pvp skills.
It was a legit issue, but it was kind of like waiting in line at the Post Office. You're grumpy and upset about while you're in line, but happy and laughing at the people behind you when you're walking out.
But it was similar in that it really had no affect on the people who were the most vocal complainers.
Dum Spiro Spero
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4876
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 00:18:31 -
[328] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
The problem is that you'd have to choose between learning the basic skills to get out and fight in a suitably-fit frig or learning the learning skills which would help you learn the frig skills faster. So, you spend a week learning skills to get out and pvp...then a few weeks getting learning skills up...then get into a regular skill plan. Or, you spend a week or two getting those first learning skills (and consuming 3d party knowledge) and 2 days getting those basic frigate pvp skills. It was a legit issue, but it was kind of like waiting in line at the Post Office. You're grumpy and upset about while you're in line, but happy and laughing at the people behind you when you're walking out. But it was similar in that it really had no affect on the people who were the most vocal complainers.
Well...yes and no. No in that it wouldn't get you into that frig much faster since you'd first be spending time doing learning skills, and maybe science skills so you can do implants. Remember we are talking about a frigate and the basic frigate modules. So learning skills delayed that. The pay off for learning skills did not come until later on. Basically, learning skills delay learning other skills, but the learning skills add on to how fast you learn skills later, so eventually you "catch up" in terms of SP, but not until later on, and the longer you delay in learning the learning skills the further out that catch up time is.
That is, suppose you have 2 characters. Bob and Joe. Bob trains the tier 1 and 2 learning skills to 5/4. Joe just jumps into training for a frigate. While Bob is waiting for the learning skills to finish Joe now has 2,927,570 SP towards a flying a frig that Bob does not. However, Bob is now learning things faster than Joe, so Bob is gaining on Joe in just over 5 months Bob will have more SP than Joe. Still it probably took Bob 2-3 maybe 4 months to close that gap.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
196
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 01:35:09 -
[329] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content. I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ). Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target.
Jump clones said hi. At least to the ten or so people who thought "Maybe I'd better leave a clone with a properly fitted ship off in the middle of nowhere. You know, just in case."
A signature :o
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1833
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 02:19:31 -
[330] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Jump clones said hi. At least to the ten or so people who thought "Maybe I'd better leave a clone with a properly fitted ship off in the middle of nowhere. You know, just in case."
Or you know...jump two systems over and they'll never find you without watchlist. Rip war decs.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Zathra Narazi
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
38
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 07:21:03 -
[331] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote: "If you decide to do it it takes an entire 2 or 3 seconds a day"
Another gross misrepresentation of how much of a pain in the ass this can be.
How can killing 1 rat possibly be a pain in the ass? |
Lucas Kell
Evolution.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7812
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 07:50:07 -
[332] - Quote
Zathra Narazi wrote:Get out of my game you limp-wristed carebear poof. It's Eve. You're always a target. I'm in militia so I'm war dec'd and being invaded permanently. Hasn't stopped me from doing my daily. Yeah that was actually his point. It won't stop you doing your daily, thus content is provided. That said, Frostys had it right that it doesn't really matter if you are wardecced or not, undocking at all provides content.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Zathra Narazi
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
39
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 07:51:17 -
[333] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:While Bob is waiting for the learning skills to finish Joe now has 2,927,570 SP towards a flying a frig that Bob does not. However, Bob is now learning things faster than Joe, so Bob is gaining on Joe in just over 5 months Bob will have more SP than Joe.
And even after 5 months Joe will still have more SP in frigs, while Joe's so-called "more SP" is all in learning skills that literally take years to break even on. Bob apparently sucks at math.
Lucas Kell wrote:Zathra Narazi wrote:Get out of my game you limp-wristed carebear poof. It's Eve. You're always a target. I'm in militia so I'm war dec'd and being invaded permanently. Hasn't stopped me from doing my daily. Yeah that was actually his point. It won't stop you doing your daily, thus content is provided. That said, Frostys had it right that it doesn't really matter if you are wardecced or not, undocking at all provides content.
Oh. In that case I misunderstood. I thought he was whining about the daily making him a target. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1783
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 08:32:37 -
[334] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar? -- Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked. So if this was true, those people were stoopid. -- ...The point still remains, you'd spend at least 2 or 3 months training those skills which was boring and kind of sucked. Getting rid of them was a good thing...
It looks like these two parts were written by two different persons
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1783
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 08:42:24 -
[335] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:KaarBaak wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
The problem is that you'd have to choose between learning the basic skills to get out and fight in a suitably-fit frig or learning the learning skills which would help you learn the frig skills faster. So, you spend a week learning skills to get out and pvp...then a few weeks getting learning skills up...then get into a regular skill plan. Or, you spend a week or two getting those first learning skills (and consuming 3d party knowledge) and 2 days getting those basic frigate pvp skills. It was a legit issue, but it was kind of like waiting in line at the Post Office. You're grumpy and upset about while you're in line, but happy and laughing at the people behind you when you're walking out. But it was similar in that it really had no affect on the people who were the most vocal complainers. Well...yes and no. No in that it wouldn't get you into that frig much faster since you'd first be spending time doing learning skills, and maybe science skills so you can do implants.
Me personally used to create plan for like 2-3 months, then using EveMon apply learning skills for which this plan can be finished faster, then just walk the road.
This way i was getting 'optimal' result for my current needs. Yes, i only got these skills up to IV if i'm not mistaken. But i have never waited just for them before i can go and train what i need. They were always helping me reach my target faster.
So nope. It WAS possible to use learning skills for the benefit and not as reason to not play the game. But as it was too complex thing to understand for many players CCP removed all this system. Like they said 'lowering the bar'.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations
Triumvirate.
540
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 08:43:49 -
[336] - Quote
With the introduction of skill injectors and now sp for the first rat kill of the day, CCP have moved away from what made EVE stand out back in the day.
They have moved away from a system where time gave you the edge, to a system where a little effort gives you an edge.
Log in every day and kill a rat for 10k sp ? there's a 20 percent training increase right there.
Work hard, make real money, spend it on aurum and a skill injector. There's a huge advantage in skill training right there.
Work hard in eve, make lots of isk and spend it on game time and skill injectors. ditto.
How does this affect the core game? It doesn't. You can pontificate all you want, and quote reams of data both accurate and imaginary, but the bottom line remains the same. The game is the same.
What has changed is that there are now a growing number of pilots flying blingier ships, ships that they have the skills to fly, but not the Skill to fly if you get my meaning.
Yes it has devalued the time I spent gaining my huge number of skill points the old fashioned way, but so what?
If you think eve is all about the skill points then you are missing what makes EVE.. well, EVE.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 12:16:54 -
[337] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Raging Bull Unchained wrote:Kaybella Hakaari wrote:
They already did make +5s a lot less effective:
[...]
I can-¦t see why the +5 work less effective. That would mean they "generate" less skillpoints. But thatt-¦s not the case. The skillpoints are coming from different sources. Actually, they aren't. If you don't want to log in for awhile and you want to keep building SP, this is a nice way to, in effect, do the daily. Funny how people argue on the one hand: People will be overcome by extreme OCD and log in every day and do this and start hating the game. Then on the other hand: +5s, which give slightly more, daily SP are no worthless and nobody will use them!
Or people will just have a "Gotta catch 'em all!" attitude: remap, +5s, daily. It's the fastest way to hit whatever skill target they're trying to hit, short of plex/isk/injector.
Ask the obvious question of what the point of the daily is. If it's not to tell people to log in every day and do whatever the game tells them, what is it? You can mock peoples' self-control all you want, but that is the point by design.
We keep calling it a daily, and it's presented as a daily, but it's more like an energy/rested XP system: game tells you to log in daily to use all your rested XP for maximum efficiency.
Quote:Guys, forget the treatment for your OCD, I highly recommend you get help for your schizophrenia.
Drugs for schizophrenia have, to put it politely, side effects of "diminished capacity." Whoever is being treated with them often end up dependent on someone else to take care of them.
Not so funny when you think about it. |
Sella Lesbon
Livonian Bearslayers
The Methodical Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 12:20:14 -
[338] - Quote
I like it.
> Never do something to someone that you wouldn't like to be done to yourself.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2869
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 12:58:37 -
[339] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:KaarBaak wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
The problem is that you'd have to choose between learning the basic skills to get out and fight in a suitably-fit frig or learning the learning skills which would help you learn the frig skills faster. So, you spend a week learning skills to get out and pvp...then a few weeks getting learning skills up...then get into a regular skill plan. Or, you spend a week or two getting those first learning skills (and consuming 3d party knowledge) and 2 days getting those basic frigate pvp skills. It was a legit issue, but it was kind of like waiting in line at the Post Office. You're grumpy and upset about while you're in line, but happy and laughing at the people behind you when you're walking out. But it was similar in that it really had no affect on the people who were the most vocal complainers. Well...yes and no. No in that it wouldn't get you into that frig much faster since you'd first be spending time doing learning skills, and maybe science skills so you can do implants. Me personally used to create plan for like 2-3 months, then using EveMon apply learning skills for which this plan can be finished faster, then just walk the road. This way i was getting 'optimal' result for my current needs. Yes, i only got these skills up to IV if i'm not mistaken. But i have never waited just for them before i can go and train what i need. They were always helping me reach my target faster. So nope. It WAS possible to use learning skills for the benefit and not as reason to not play the game. But as it was too complex thing to understand for many players CCP removed all this system. Like they said 'lowering the bar'.
The problem is that just like right now, some people were OCD about their SP gains and would not train anything until they got their "progress speed" up to the max one. While they could still technically do a lot of thing in space, your race was the deciding factor for your base skills so if you choose base on look for example, you might not have the tools to do something. I'm pretty sure not all race had prop jamming which would make PvP a hard sell until you train it. |
Flitz Farseeker
Mass HaVoK
KAOS Unlimited
28
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 13:19:35 -
[340] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:What has changed is that there are now a growing number of pilots flying blingier ships, ships that they have the skills to fly, but not the Skill to fly if you get my meaning. QFT. I earned my skills gradually over the years, training up learning skills to V, creating optimized training plans, blah, blah, blah. Now anyone can just buy and train more SP than I have in a single day. Doesn't mean they are better at the game, just changes what they can fly.
An extra 10k for shooting a rat, sure I'll do that if I am online. Good for noobs, alts and shaving some time off that 22 day skill I'm currently training. It also only takes a couple of minutes to swing past a belt, blap a rat and leave. Who knows, I might run into an elite or officer spawn.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4883
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 15:56:48 -
[341] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar? -- Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked. So if this was true, those people were stoopid. -- ...The point still remains, you'd spend at least 2 or 3 months training those skills which was boring and kind of sucked. Getting rid of them was a good thing... It looks like these two parts were written by two different persons
No, my point was even if you are undocking, while training those skills you often feel like you aren't going anywhere as your ability to fly different ships, use different modules, etc. is not changing. You are equating "boring" with "not undocking" and that does not have to be the case. Boring can also mean undocking in the same ship day-after-day for 4 months. Whereas now in that for months your options in terms of ships, modules, etc. will be increasing.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
2509
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 17:23:10 -
[342] - Quote
They made me login and dunk a rat, then dunk a miner next to the rat. It is working!
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4883
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 17:42:00 -
[343] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:
Me personally used to create plan for like 2-3 months, then using EveMon apply learning skills for which this plan can be finished faster, then just walk the road.
This way i was getting 'optimal' result for my current needs. Yes, i only got these skills up to IV if i'm not mistaken. But i have never waited just for them before i can go and train what i need. They were always helping me reach my target faster.
So nope. It WAS possible to use learning skills for the benefit and not as reason to not play the game. But as it was too complex thing to understand for many players CCP removed all this system. Like they said 'lowering the bar'.
No, it just sucked. Learning skills were bad. I recall when I first started I did learning skills in fits and starts because they were just damn boring. Yes, in the long run it would give me an advantage, but being stuck in the same ship with the same limited options for modules for weeks on end blew donkey wang. It added very little to the game in terms of content and fun and, IMO, reduced the latter. Among my friends that I was playing with at the time, they were even slower at doing learning skills because they were so boring.
Was it lowering the bar? Okay, yeah you had one less thing to sit down and figure out/realize, but it was a good thing in that it removed a deliberately boring aspect of the game. I recall the silly debate on this, many of the arguments boiled down to, "I had to do that horrible grind, and everyone else should have to do it too." A perverse sort of misery loves company argument. Once I realized I'd get those SP back in terms of free SP I could allocate anywhere I chose I was fine with it as not only was I no worse off, it would open up yet another class of ships for me to use (logistics).
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4883
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 17:45:59 -
[344] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:
Yes it has devalued the time I spent gaining my huge number of skill points the old fashioned way, but so what?
I'm still waiting to see a good reason for this. If I win the lotto are every one of my neighbors suddenly worse off?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4883
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 18:16:18 -
[345] - Quote
Kaybella Hakaari wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Raging Bull Unchained wrote:Kaybella Hakaari wrote:
They already did make +5s a lot less effective:
[...]
I can-¦t see why the +5 work less effective. That would mean they "generate" less skillpoints. But thatt-¦s not the case. The skillpoints are coming from different sources. Actually, they aren't. If you don't want to log in for awhile and you want to keep building SP, this is a nice way to, in effect, do the daily. Funny how people argue on the one hand: People will be overcome by extreme OCD and log in every day and do this and start hating the game. Then on the other hand: +5s, which give slightly more, daily SP are no worthless and nobody will use them! Or people will just have a "Gotta catch 'em all!" attitude: remap, +5s, daily. It's the fastest way to hit whatever skill target they're trying to hit, short of plex/isk/injector. Ask the obvious question of what the point of the daily is. If it's not to tell people to log in every day and do whatever the game tells them, what is it? You can mock peoples' self-control all you want, but that is the point by design. We keep calling it a daily, and it's presented as a daily, but it's more like an energy/rested XP system: game tells you to log in daily to use all your rested XP for maximum efficiency. Quote:Guys, forget the treatment for your OCD, I highly recommend you get help for your schizophrenia. Drugs for schizophrenia have, to put it politely, side effects of "diminished capacity." Whoever is being treated with them often end up dependent on someone else to take care of them. Not so funny when you think about it.
The best argument so far was CCP saying the only source of SP would be training....now that is not true. And AFAIK, 1 guy has pointed that out. If others had and asked CCP to explain why this shift in SP is happening that might have been better than arguing that people are going to log in every day because well...10,000 SP.
The notion of opportunity cost and diminishing returns just don't seem to matter anymore. Of course, if I were to argue I'm mining my own minerals and they cost nothing people would fall all over themselves to tell me how wrong I am....probably many of the people arguing against the daily XP boost. As people train skills first they'll do the "core" skills, ones that make all ships better. Then they'll start training non-core skills that are widely trained...and then finally skills because...well crap I have paid for the account so I might as well train basket weaving to 5.*
And lighten up a bit, don't take sarcastic comments literally.
*Yes, I know there is no skill for basket weaving; the point is some skills are only helpful in rare contexts.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4883
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 18:21:32 -
[346] - Quote
Flitz Farseeker wrote:Mithandra wrote:What has changed is that there are now a growing number of pilots flying blingier ships, ships that they have the skills to fly, but not the Skill to fly if you get my meaning. QFT. I earned my skills gradually over the years, training up learning skills to V, creating optimized training plans, blah, blah, blah. Now anyone can just buy and train more SP than I have in a single day. Doesn't mean they are better at the game, just changes what they can fly. An extra 10k for shooting a rat, sure I'll do that if I am online. Good for noobs, alts and shaving some time off that 22 day skill I'm currently training. It also only takes a couple of minutes to swing past a belt, blap a rat and leave. Who knows, I might run into an elite or officer spawn.
No, not anyone an train up to the SP you have in a single day. Training to the SP you have, which is I'm going to guess is north of 140 million, would be quite expensive. Now someone with considerably disposable income (or if they don't, some questionable views on how best to spend their real life money) can do that, but that is not the same as anyone.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
973
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 20:32:11 -
[347] - Quote
Kaybella Hakaari wrote:KaarBaak wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though. If that were the daily task...would you still complain? CODE. could do away with mining permits on its less active characters. "I shot that Venture for my daily 10k SP" would be a perfectly valid excuse.
Since when do we need an excuse to shoot ventures?
I'm afraid you're confused, friend. CCP created the mining permit as an excuse to BUMP miners, no one in EVE ever, under any circumstances, needs an excuse to shoot someone else. Kill mails are all the reason you ever needed to pop a noob venture, or nuke an empty freighter, whatever you want! \o/ The Universe is yours capsuleer.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
973
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 21:04:58 -
[348] - Quote
Zathra Narazi wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote: "If you decide to do it it takes an entire 2 or 3 seconds a day"
Another gross misrepresentation of how much of a pain in the ass this can be. How can killing 1 rat possibly be a pain in the ass? Edit: Sorry Teckos.
The best example I've seen given on here is living in a class 6 wormhole.
For other examples I suggest you use your imagination and/or move out of highsec.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4886
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 23:31:54 -
[349] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Zathra Narazi wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote: "If you decide to do it it takes an entire 2 or 3 seconds a day"
Another gross misrepresentation of how much of a pain in the ass this can be. How can killing 1 rat possibly be a pain in the ass? Edit: Sorry Teckos. The best example I've seen given on here is living in a class 6 wormhole. For other examples I suggest you use your imagination and/or move out of highsec.
Then move out of the class 6 wormhole. If it is that much of a PITA, then leave. Problem solved.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1835
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 23:50:43 -
[350] - Quote
Teckos wrote:
Then move out of the class 6 wormhole. If it is that much of a PITA, then leave. Problem solved.
Yeah...let me just change my entire playstyle to accommodate this poorly executed feature.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Gardav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2016.05.28 00:31:42 -
[351] - Quote
"CCP created the mining permit ..."
LOL now I've heard everything. The more CODE gibberish like this morsel of bait I read the more respect I lose for the lot of you.
Come on now... Ya'll can do much better than that. You're losing your touch.
(I sincerely hope I am misunderstanding your post) |
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2016.05.28 01:10:38 -
[352] - Quote
Gardav wrote:"CCP created the mining permit ..."
LOL now I've heard everything. The more CODE gibberish like this morsel of bait I read the more respect I lose for the lot of you.
Come on now... Ya'll can do much better than that. You're losing your touch.
(I sincerely hope I am misunderstanding your post)
They couldn't just suicide gank just for giggles: there had to be something to gain. Here it was:
Quote:A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way.
... which popping random miners fell under, or could have if you read that article the right way.
So, to make suicide ganking random Ventures possibly profitable, someone in CODE came up with the mining permit.
If CCP gave out SP for killing just anyone, the mining permit would be unnecessary: CCP would pay gankers in skillpoints, once every whenever they set it. |
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2016.05.28 20:48:17 -
[353] - Quote
Who said the people on Reddit liked this idea?
I went Googling around for CCP's form 10-X just for giggles and found this on the front page. I see on that page a wall of mostly "Please don't do this." The search string is "ccp games form 10-k" without quotes, if you want to check my work.
Googling for "eve online dailies" (again, no quotes) gets this thing. The topic has post upon post of "Please don't, this is a terrible idea." |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
2529
|
Posted - 2016.05.28 21:19:40 -
[354] - Quote
Kaybella Hakaari wrote:Quote:A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. ... which popping random miners fell under, or could have if you read that article the right way.
So popping a Venture in nullsec if grief play too if you read it "the right way"? Or is this a Highsec special snowflake thing?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
The Wraithguard.
323
|
Posted - 2016.05.28 21:50:40 -
[355] - Quote
even if only a Miner II and a Scrap Metal falls out, it's still profit. Because you don't suicide anything. It is not a snowflake thing, but it is splitting hairs. If you've been on the forums long enough, you come to realize anything you do griefs Mr. Entitled.
In this case, Kaybella's right tho. |
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2016.05.28 21:59:22 -
[356] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Kaybella Hakaari wrote:Quote:A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. ... which popping random miners fell under, or could have if you read that article the right way. So popping a Venture in nullsec if grief play too if you read it "the right way"? Or is this a Highsec special snowflake thing?
You get to keep your ship if you kill it in null. Maybe. If you were careful.
In hisec, you were going to lose that cata immediately after killing that venture. It was almost certain red ink on your balance sheet.
Everyone has different ideas of what "making others' lives miserable" means, which is probably why you'd have to go to the Wayback Machine to get that page. Add to that the "no profit" part and the red ink from losing the cat, and you need the permit to hand out. Suicide ganking to an almost guaranteed loss was right on the line which seemed to be drawn out in that page.
Yes, it probably was a hisec special snowflake thing, because hisec bears are the only ones who would make a ticket about getting killed. Just about everyone else knows better. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
2529
|
Posted - 2016.05.28 22:23:26 -
[357] - Quote
Kaybella Hakaari wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:
So popping a Venture in nullsec if grief play too if you read it "the right way"? Or is this a Highsec special snowflake thing?
You get to keep your ship if you kill it in null. Maybe. If you were careful. In hisec, you were going to lose that cata immediately after killing that venture. It was almost certain red ink on your balance sheet. Everyone has different ideas of what "making others' lives miserable" means, which is probably why you'd have to go to the Wayback Machine to get that page. Add to that the "no profit" part and the red ink from losing the cat, and you need the permit to hand out. Suicide ganking to an almost guaranteed loss was right on the line which seemed to be drawn out in that page. Yes, it probably was a hisec special snowflake thing, because hisec bears are the only ones who would make a ticket about getting killed. Just about everyone else knows better.
I do this miner ganking thing for like 2.5 years or something. I don't gank haulers or bling mission ships, usually only miners. While the not every single gank is ISK positive, the whole profession is. There is much more to it than the single gank which is usually just the starting point where everyone gets angry and then stuff happens and more ships explode.
And what about the whiny carebears? We can simply ignore them since they will always whine no matter if it is profitable or not:
If it is profitable:
They will call for nerfs because it is "easy ISK" and cheap catalysts should never be able to kill a ship which is more expensive than they are. etc..
If it is not profitable:
They will say this is simply greif play because nothing can be gained by doing it.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
977
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 04:28:39 -
[358] - Quote
"They couldn't just suicide gank just for giggles: there had to be something to gain.".
Lies.
Please stop propagating this nonsense.
We are allowed to shoot each other for whatever reason we see fit. Ask a GM, he/she will tell you the same thing.
For crying out loud, where do people get this stuff?
CCP created the mining permit to justify bumping
I say again: BUMPING
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
977
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 04:42:28 -
[359] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:even if only a Miner II and a Scrap Metal falls out, it's still profit. Because you don't suicide anything. It is not a snowflake thing, but it is splitting hairs. If you've been on the forums long enough, you come to realize anything you do griefs Mr. Entitled.
In this case, Kaybella's right tho.
No, she's really not.
Kaybella could not be less correct.
I honestly can't believe some people really think EVE works this way...
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
816
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 05:21:05 -
[360] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:"They couldn't just suicide gank just for giggles: there had to be something to gain.".
Lies.
Please stop propagating this nonsense.
We are allowed to shoot each other for whatever reason we see fit. Ask a GM, he/she will tell you the same thing.
For crying out loud, where do people get this stuff?
CCP created the mining permit to justify bumping
I say again: BUMPING
Kaybella, why do you feel the need to make things up?
CCP created the mining permit? Really? |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
80
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 08:15:25 -
[361] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Teckos wrote:
Then move out of the class 6 wormhole. If it is that much of a PITA, then leave. Problem solved.
Yeah...let me just change my entire playstyle to accommodate this poorly executed feature.
Eh, what are you doing all the time in a class 6 Wormhole? Twiddling thumps? If you can stay in a class 6 you can get some buddies together to have a quick hunt = good loot + SP.
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
977
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 12:46:36 -
[362] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:"They couldn't just suicide gank just for giggles: there had to be something to gain.".
Lies.
Please stop propagating this nonsense.
We are allowed to shoot each other for whatever reason we see fit. Ask a GM, he/she will tell you the same thing.
For crying out loud, where do people get this stuff?
CCP created the mining permit to justify bumping
I say again: BUMPING
Kaybella, why do you feel the need to make things up? CCP created the mining permit? Really?
Yup. Little known fact.
A joint effort between GM Banana and the Saviour of Highsec.
See: http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/06/the-secret-origins-of-new-order.html?m=1
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Anataine Deva
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 13:17:40 -
[363] - Quote
Oh I nearly forgot to express my gratitude for this feature and the 150,000 "free" skill points I got so far. Not to mention all the fun an social interactions I had because of it.
Why does it look like that during the last weeks the amount of active player went slightly down? Shouldn't be the opposite the case?
Give The BIG Lottery a try! - And give me your Fedos!!!
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1801
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 14:03:06 -
[364] - Quote
Do you have any credible source?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
267
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 14:20:07 -
[365] - Quote
Why are we talking about CODE? I didn't realize they were still relevant |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2912
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 14:21:12 -
[366] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Do you have any credible source?
There isn't because they just translate "CCP said it would be ok" to "CCP created this for our purpose". It's a way to look more legitimate but it's only really useful to try to make people not petition the case.
Anytime you want to do something that might be viewed by someone as griefing, no matter how legitimate the griefing claim is or not, your best bet is to try to prevent said petition of ever existing in the first place. Whatever you say or link to the player in telling him it's useless to petition can be completely false as long as you succeed in preventing the petition of ever existing. |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
977
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 18:26:17 -
[367] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:March rabbit wrote:Do you have any credible source? There isn't because they just translate "CCP said it would be ok" to "CCP created this for our purpose". It's a way to look more legitimate but it's only really useful to try to make people not petition the case. Anytime you want to do something that might be viewed by someone as griefing, no matter how legitimate the griefing claim is or not, your best bet is to try to prevent said petition of ever existing in the first place. Whatever you say or link to the player in telling him it's useless to petition can be completely false as long as you succeed in preventing the petition of ever existing.
Lol if frivolous petitions could stop us, we would have been shut down years ago. We're not that worried about carebears file petitions, they're going to whine no matter what we say.
More or less this happened:
GM Banana> You can't just bump people, you have to be trying to get something out of them.
James 315> You mean like a 10 mil mining permit?
GM Banana> Yeah, yeah I'm pretty sure that would work!
Call that what you will, but since the entire engagement that produced the mining permit was in fact instigated by the GM staff, I'm gonna go ahead and call it "CCP inadvertently creating the biggest source of petitions since lag."
Which is pretty hilarious if you think about it.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
267
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 19:02:16 -
[368] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Lol if frivolous petitions could stop us, we would have been shut down years ago. We're not that worried about carebears file petitions, they're going to whine no matter what we say.
More or less this happened:
GM Banana> You can't just bump people, you have to be trying to get something out of them.
James 315> You mean like a 10 mil mining permit?
GM Banana> Yeah, yeah I'm pretty sure that would work!
Call that what you will, but since the entire engagement that produced the mining permit was in fact instigated by the GM staff, I'm gonna go ahead and call it "CCP inadvertently creating the biggest source of petitions since lag."
Which is pretty hilarious if you think about it.
If mental gymnastics was an olympic event, you'd win the gold. |
Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics
CODE.
944
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 19:13:00 -
[369] - Quote
Course he would, code always wins, haven't you heard? |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
977
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 19:26:11 -
[370] - Quote
Had the GM staff stayed out of it, there would be no mining permit today.
Interpret that as you like.
I'd like to take a moment to thank the GMs for the more than 1 billion ISK I've made selling permits.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union
Apocalypse Now.
269
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 20:21:17 -
[371] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:Course he would, code always wins, haven't you heard?
https://i.imgur.com/RdGTA.gif |
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