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The great eve progression

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Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:46:00 - [1] Once upon a time in eve pos' didn't exist and 30 - 40 bs losses were considered pretty devastating. What interests me is the finance of it all. With alliances making 100 billion titans and fielding hundreds of billions in capital fleets with single engagements such as the 8 dread losses the other day costing 30 billion where is the money coming from to fund this? The players in this tend to be fairly old corps so I imagine they have had industry for a long time so what has changed in order to allow such large scale expenditure to happen? What worries me is that there may be a culture of ebaying and / or macroing going on (for the love of god no red slurs please)to give the edge. When you think about it, even mining the pos fuel for all these deathstars is a mammoth task. This brings up the old metagaming thing again. The trouble with eve these days and why people are taking it so seriously is because of the sheer amount of work that building an empire and defending it takes. Like someone said a titan on ebay costs the same as a new car so people are prepared to go the extra mile or three to protect it. Not sure if i like that personally, imo supercapitals was a step to far.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:48:00 - [2] Complexes generate a lot of isk. Officer and faction spawns can launch individual members into the world of the wealthy quite easily. Moon mining/reactions are a great way of making money. ----- $Forum + $Bob + $Devs == $ForumPostCount+++++;
Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:51:00 - [3] Faction spawns are an especially good way to accrue personal wealth, higher-end officer spawns can generate up to 2-3 billion in loot from a single npc.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:54:00 - [4] Virtually all alliances fielding Titans or large cap fleets currently have large stashes of high-quality t2 BPOs.
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Complexes generate a lot of isk. Officer and faction spawns can launch individual members into the world of the wealthy quite easily. Moon mining/reactions are a great way of making money. my point was that moon mining, complexes and faction spawns have always bin around, but previous to this people wern't rolling in ISK. What has changed?
Helganstandt Finis Lumen	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:01:00 - [6] Edited by: Helganstandt on 25/02/2007 19:00:32 Macro-mining may have something to do with it, but I remember some people in ASCN saying they could mine enough for a carrier in a week. When you're looking at that kind of individual wealth from just mining, think of what doing 10/10's can accomplish. You have your alliance running 10/10's every day, 23/7, you're just generating billions upon billions of isk. Lots of characters now also have extreme wealth. Another few people I know have accrued over 100 billion in isk and assets without the help of tech 2 BPO's, they just did it by running complexes, some by even doing level 4 missions (though he doesn't have a life granted). Really, what it comes down to is that EVE does have a grind. That grind is money. The wealthy are the equivalent of the level 70 characters in WoW. If you have the time and the connections, the money is out there. Edit: To answer your question as to "what has changed". Nothing really, not at least since I've started. There's just more players, which means a greater population of those motivated enough to get really rich. I think you'll find that your average player still sits under a billion in isk.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 25/02/2007 19:01:15 Originally by: Blitz'Krieg Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Complexes generate a lot of isk. Officer and faction spawns can launch individual members into the world of the wealthy quite easily. Moon mining/reactions are a great way of making money. my point was that moon mining, complexes and faction spawns have always bin around, but previous to this people wern't rolling in ISK. What has changed? Alliances have been rolling in isk ever since they came out. Good alliances that is. The only difference is that people are starting to see how utterly awesome super capitals are in combat. The ability to fire two or even three doomsday blasts is an extremely powerful tool to secure the battlefield. ----- $Forum + $Bob + $Devs == $ForumPostCount+++++;
Zuro Rapid Dominance	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:05:00 - [8] Im going to assume you're talking about the major empire such as Bob and D2.bob mainly... bob has a MASSIVE amount of t2 bpos to make them profit. They also own something like 5-6 regions which they lease out to people for a billion isk a month if i recall correctly. Plus all their complex's, plus they mining, plus the industry. Add it all up and its several hundred billion a month coming in.
Sheriff Badden Amarr Legion Federation Amen Anera	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:16:00 - [9] ...dizzying numbers... and all of these guys started out with a rookie ship, a civie gun and 5000 ISK classic rags to riches story
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Zuro Im going to assume you're talking about the major empire such as Bob and D2.bob mainly... bob has a MASSIVE amount of t2 bpos to make them profit. They also own something like 5-6 regions which they lease out to people for a billion isk a month if i recall correctly. Plus all their complex's, plus they mining, plus the industry. Add it all up and its several hundred billion a month coming in. so where was this money going before capital ships?

Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg so where was this money going before capital ships? outfitting fleets, buying blueprint stocks, buying more tech 2 blueprints, etc.
Traxex E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:22:00 - [12] Officer spawns, 10/10 complexes, gas clouds, events. All of which strangely enough appeared in BOB space. None of which are in the North. Oh wait there was an event in X-70 when dice was there for a short while strangely enough...
Kirex Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:26:00 - [13] Strange how delve went from crap to rich a few weeks after bob moved in? ;p Click above for my killboard stats.
Ast3r0iD Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Traxex Officer spawns, 10/10 complexes, gas clouds, events. All of which strangely enough appeared in BOB space. None of which are in the North. Oh wait there was an event in X-70 when dice was there for a short while strangely enough... next we'll be hearing bob killed Kennedy. open the curtains fella theres a whole world out there.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:49:00 - [15] Edited by: Shirei on 25/02/2007 19:45:37 Originally by: Ast3r0iD next we'll be hearing bob killed Kennedy. open the curtains fella theres a whole world out there. If this has anything to do with bob or not is a bit of tinfoil-hattery. But the point remains that the North had pretty much nothing in the way of particularly worthwhile complexes until Revelations.
Won Swunglow Caldari Dead By Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Ast3r0iD Originally by: Traxex Officer spawns, 10/10 complexes, gas clouds, events. All of which strangely enough appeared in BOB space. None of which are in the North. Oh wait there was an event in X-70 when dice was there for a short while strangely enough... next we'll be hearing bob killed Kenny You B****rds
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.25 20:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Sheriff Badden ...dizzying numbers... and all of these guys started out with a rookie ship, a civie gun and 5000 ISK classic rags to riches story I'd have given a dev a handjob for 5k when I started. It was a lot less than that but I forget how much :P Don't forget the old GTC for ISK thing, thats how some alliances keep their heads above water.
ACHURA CALDARIAN Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.25 21:26:00 - [18] i am not an old player i am playing this game since 8 months and most part of it ( 6 months ) in empire and i there gather 2 billion or more individually and in 0,0 space u can gather much more induvidually like say from ratting minumum 50 m a day and 5 m of it going to the corp you are with. now times that with a 1000 member alliance and 500 of them ratting daily 5x500 = 2,5 billion isk per day that alliance gain ( its out of people gatherings only from taxes ) and in a month it will be 75 billon for a 500 ratting people alliance and also add this T2 production sales mining taxes moon mining that will make much more a miner with a hulk can daily mine over 200 m worth mine and when refining it alliance will get %10 of it before doing ah whats happening how come an alliance can gather that much sources thingk that i can gather over 1 billion in empire by only running missions you will see the conclusion give away conspiracy theories WE ARE THE GRANDSONS OF A THUNDERMAKER NATION
Luthien Firefoot Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.25 22:18:00 - [19] IMO it's about each players isk and what he / she is willing to spend to fit out ships etc.. In the current climate / op / war I believe that coalition forces inidividual players are willing to dig deeper into their own isk wallets to continue this fight to a satisfactory conclusion. How much of my isk would I spend to throw off the yokes of oppression and omgwekilledevryoneineve, all of it.
Athelas Loraiel Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2007.02.25 22:29:00 - [20] Has anyone checked number of plexes Delve received with last content patch? Anyway, I realy doubt BOD get 100 B ISK monthly. I believe its far worse for all the rest. -------------- On the lookout for specific ppl in BOD disguise.

Sorela Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.26 00:04:00 - [21] There are lots of factors. In the end a lot of it though is that there are more people in the game.
Har Ganeth STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.26 00:16:00 - [22] Edited by: Har Ganeth on 26/02/2007 00:15:07 Originally by: Athelas Loraiel Anyway, I realy doubt BOD get 100 B ISK monthly. That number doesn't sound unfeasible, considering some of the blueprints the corps in BoB own. Another way to look at it would be to look at the way ASCN was cranking out capitals/outposts/titans. :o
Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.26 00:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Athelas Loraiel Has anyone checked number of plexes Delve received with last content patch? Anyway, I realy doubt BOD get 100 B ISK monthly. I believe its far worse for all the rest. It is hardly unrealistic. With enough manpower and proper guiding hand its more than possible.
Adeptus mecanicus The Flaming Sideburn's	Posted - 2007.02.26 00:40:00 - [24] even 5/10 plexes give revenue in a steady stream. some plex farmers that operate in our region and farm 5/10 drone plexes got a estimate of 115 mill per run in tier/compounds also they left one in a lower stage that harvested the most valuable tier effect and that respawned more rapidly. then CCP nerfed the drone plexes after finaly getting the hint of numeros petitions and complaints. and the farmers left....then the salvage factor of drone wrecks came into effect and now they are back in the plex's coz the rig components actualy give them a even bigger revenue that the tier and componds did in the old day's now...now thats a 5/10 complex consider a organized team doing shifts in a 10/10 yield 23/7....yeah thats right they are stinking rich beyond our comprehension, the only thing that is holding back squads of titans is that CCP hasnt seeded built titans on the market
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.26 00:44:00 - [25] Originally by: Righteous Fury Originally by: Athelas Loraiel Has anyone checked number of plexes Delve received with last content patch? Anyway, I realy doubt BOD get 100 B ISK monthly. I believe its far worse for all the rest. It is hardly unrealistic. With enough manpower and proper guiding hand its more than possible. Do you think that with this in mind it gives the game a finite length of time that it is "fair". An old alliance / corp will only increase its t2 bpo base with the rich getting richer and the poor having very little chance against them without goonstyle massive numbers. I think the basis of this is the never endingness of BPO's. It would be nice to see them changed to very high bpc's maybe but thats a discussion for a different forum.
Valkazm Amarr ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.26 00:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Ast3r0iD Originally by: Traxex Officer spawns, 10/10 complexes, gas clouds, events. All of which strangely enough appeared in BOB space. None of which are in the North. Oh wait there was an event in X-70 when dice was there for a short while strangely enough... next we'll be hearing bob killed Kennedy. open the curtains fella theres a whole world out there. They didnt have a finger in kennedy but i heard them mention eve new world order and i think molle is apart of the Bohemian grove aswell ..google it .. Step into the darkness
Nahual Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.26 00:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Shirei Edited by: Shirei on 25/02/2007 19:45:37 Originally by: Ast3r0iD next we'll be hearing bob killed Kennedy. open the curtains fella theres a whole world out there. If this has anything to do with bob or not is a bit of tinfoil-hattery. But the point remains that the North had pretty much nothing in the way of particularly worthwhile complexes until Revelations. Yeah completely right, coz those 8/10s that you guys never bothered to do, never dropped RS BPCs that sold for 2 bil a couple months back, and that never happened fairly often Nothern complexs were great, its your fault you didn't use them. -----------------------------------------------
Mortalitus Domino	Posted - 2007.02.26 01:31:00 - [28] Edited by: Mortalitus Domino on 26/02/2007 01:28:17 Originally by: Blitz'Krieg Originally by: Righteous Fury Originally by: Athelas Loraiel Has anyone checked number of plexes Delve received with last content patch? Anyway, I realy doubt BOD get 100 B ISK monthly. I believe its far worse for all the rest. It is hardly unrealistic. With enough manpower and proper guiding hand its more than possible. Do you think that with this in mind it gives the game a finite length of time that it is "fair". An old alliance / corp will only increase its t2 bpo base with the rich getting richer and the poor having very little chance against them without goonstyle massive numbers. I think the basis of this is the never endingness of BPO's. It would be nice to see them changed to very high bpc's maybe but thats a discussion for a different forum. EDIT: Sorry. Forgot to change chars.
Hedeon Mishenka Caldari Kinetic Vector Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 01:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg Originally by: Righteous Fury Originally by: Athelas Loraiel Has anyone checked number of plexes Delve received with last content patch? Anyway, I realy doubt BOD get 100 B ISK monthly. I believe its far worse for all the rest. It is hardly unrealistic. With enough manpower and proper guiding hand its more than possible. Do you think that with this in mind it gives the game a finite length of time that it is "fair". An old alliance / corp will only increase its t2 bpo base with the rich getting richer and the poor having very little chance against them without goonstyle massive numbers. I think the basis of this is the never endingness of BPO's. It would be nice to see them changed to very high bpc's maybe but thats a discussion for a different forum. Read one of the latest dev blogs. Unlimited run T2 BPO's are going to become a thing of the past very soon. .: You laugh because I'm different :: I laugh because you're all the same :.
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.26 02:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Ast3r0iD open the curtains fella theres a whole world out there. I tried that once. My skin blistered. Was only the moon out as well



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