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Holden Bundfield Caldari Army of One	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:37:00 - [91] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Fear Not Edited by: Fear Not on 26/02/2007 17:23:25 Why can IAC not accept this one small victory? You just come across as sore losers. Nobody is trying to paint the whole picture of the war, just that ISS now control C3-. Just the same way IAC announced KOS controlled C3- a day or so back. Seems to me that IAC are extremely embarrassed every time they lose to ISS. Why? It just puts IAC in a bad light. Well the 'diplomats' at least. The majority of standard IAC members seem to be good sportsmen. Because we haven't lost to ISS. It is station ping pong and they cought it on an off hour. We are agressors in this fight. When we took C3- and kicked out their clones that was a major victory from a tactical view point. Embarrased about station ping pong at this point is useless for either side. I also find it pretty funny you are calling us diplomats... really clues you in to how clueless you are about the internals of IAC. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=453518&page=2#45 Originally by: "Kaylana Syi" Tyrrax is one of three Vice Presidents on the executive board. I am one of two diplomats on the executive board.
Kaylana Syi The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:39:00 - [92] Originally by: Holden Bundfield Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Fear Not Edited by: Fear Not on 26/02/2007 17:23:25 Why can IAC not accept this one small victory? You just come across as sore losers. Nobody is trying to paint the whole picture of the war, just that ISS now control C3-. Just the same way IAC announced KOS controlled C3- a day or so back. Seems to me that IAC are extremely embarrassed every time they lose to ISS. Why? It just puts IAC in a bad light. Well the 'diplomats' at least. The majority of standard IAC members seem to be good sportsmen. Because we haven't lost to ISS. It is station ping pong and they cought it on an off hour. We are agressors in this fight. When we took C3- and kicked out their clones that was a major victory from a tactical view point. Embarrased about station ping pong at this point is useless for either side. I also find it pretty funny you are calling us diplomats... really clues you in to how clueless you are about the internals of IAC. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=453518&page=2#45 Originally by: "Kaylana Syi" Tyrrax is one of three Vice Presidents on the executive board. I am one of two diplomats on the executive board. Old data. Its like necroing a m0o thread. Times change. Team Minmatar
Ace101 Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:50:00 - [93] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Ace101 GFs to ISS, and please stop calling me primary That's what you get for choosing a name beginning with A I'm afraid havnt got me yet
Bacilius The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:01:00 - [94] Kaylana and N sx are VP and VP (retired) respectively. I can be contacted regarding all Diplomatic matters regarding the IAC. This includes you Count. I realise my last attempt to contact you personally was at a bad time (you had just invaded F4R and were seiging the Bottleshop). As has always been the case, I make myself available to you should you wish to deal with a contact other than the executive above. Diplomacy requires respect and the ability to look beyond the personality you're dealing with to the greater good of your pilots. Diplomacy has not been a strength of IAC and its leadership in the past, however it was never a real necessity until Prohibition II. Drunks love everyone.... Diplomacy, however, is why your alliance is where it is today. For such a high profile business and leader, diplomacy is your lifeblood and your failure in recent months has a lot to do with failed diplomacy on your part. I hope one day you may seek to rectify this at the highest level with us. Until then, please continue to fill your worthy members with false hope and misdirection. Time is your only variable. This outcome is a constant. Bac Diplomat IAC
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:02:00 - [95] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Because we haven't lost to ISS. True, this could still go either way. Quote: It is station ping pong Five days safely in our hands isn't quite what I'd call ping pong, but that arguement leads to semantics. So Meh. Quote: When we took C3- and kicked out their clones that was a major victory from a tactical view point. Taking it back, restoring our medical clones, and kicking yours out is an equally major victory from a tactical view point.
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:07:00 - [96] Originally by: Ace101 havnt got me yet Cough One Assault Frig in ZXIC during the early stages of the war. Cough But that is a very impressive run of ISS kills without losses you've got going. Nicely done. o7 We're going to have to primary you more often....
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:11:00 - [97] I remember the seige of F4R....ISS and support were bragging alot about the total of losses....POS's, station, and so forth....How about now? We got our bottleshop back with interest. I'd love to know total financial losses thus far now that I think about it...I wish every day was a weekend....
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:33:00 - [98] The Fight for C3- station ends in 5 days. Unless ISS,Rise, and co start attacking towers, KOS owns more Larges. I personaly have had a lot of fun, except for that slightly embarresing moment when i got jumped by a ceptor + fighter swarm while i was discussing standings with Verone and lost my mega :\. ISS has put up a valient fight, but ofcourse it is much easier to defend a system then to attack it. And to all those who seem determined to defend the Count, go back to his OP and reread the 3rd paragraph. The only true statement he makes is the last one. They did sell the Providence Outpost to Sylph alliance on the 4th of Feb, but Count's seeminly habitual ability to lie is a bit annoying, and i can see how Nsx and Kay's patience has gotten a bit frayed by it. Count, we tried to be your friends, hell we even defended a few of your POS's. But your vision of perfect nuetrality blinded you to a simple fact. You cannot survive in 0.0 without friends. And being nuetral just isn't very friendly. -------------------------------------------------
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:00:00 - [99] Originally by: Count TaSessine December 9th when the former publically owned stations in Catch were suddenly attacked by longtime neighbours IAC. The Syndicate responded in kind, but was overwhelmed by a coalition of alliances from north to south Absolute twaddle, son. But whatever helps you sleep at night. The fight in C3-0YD is ongoing, more brave soldiers will die on both sides, but one MUST have respect for the ISS SOLDIERS who fight - outnumbered sometimes 3:1 - for the LV station. THANKYOU for the fun, THANKYOU for the polite local banter, and enjoying the game with us. Don't get disheartened by your leader's apparent lack of foresight and political understanding. There will be a place for each and every one of the soldiers when New New Eden is born. ______________________________________
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:05:00 - [100] I still think they have hidden talent...like that ISS carrier pilot...
Ace101 Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:21:00 - [101] Originally by: Kaganis Warmonkey Originally by: Ace101 havnt got me yet Cough One Assault Frig in ZXIC during the early stages of the war. Cough But that is a very impressive run of ISS kills without losses you've got going. Nicely done. o7 We're going to have to primary you more often.... that was a slideshow of death for me... 1) warp in 2) red 3) freeze 4) flashy red 5) freeze 6) dead 7) get new ship and get back in fight
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:14:00 - [102] Originally by: DHB FooFighter The Fight for C3- station ends in 5 days. Unless ISS,Rise, and co start attacking towers, KOS owns more Larges. It ends when we pull out / have the last of our assets kicked out. But yeah, unless something happens in the meantime, advantage goes to KOS & friends Saturday downtime. Quote: it is much easier to defend a system then to attack it. That's up for debate. I've seen quite a few people argue that it's easier to attack than defend. It's not a debate I'm particularly qualified to take part in (I arrived in F4 after we took it), or have much interest in arguing, I'm just pointing out that's not a cut & dried statement. (A debate for a separate thread perhaps?) Quote: And to all those who seem determined to defend the Count, go back to his OP and reread the 3rd paragraph. The only true statement he makes is the last one. They did sell the Providence Outpost to Sylph alliance on the 4th of Feb, but Count's seeminly habitual ability to lie is a bit annoying, and i can see how Nsx and Kay's patience has gotten a bit frayed by it. Actually, from our side of the fence, it's pretty accurate. The only thing missing is the F4 siege, but in the greater scheme of things, that didn't come to much did it? It's not like we still have POS's, offices, or anything at all left in that system. OK, ok, I suppose there is the never to be resolved arguement about the politics of going into F4, but: a) That's been done to death. b) Part of the arguement is, we don't see it as having any effect on the outcome, others do. So I don't see it's omission as a big deal (or, strickly speaking, a lie). Shrug. I suppose it all comes down to your point of view. Quote: Count, we tried to be your friends, hell we even defended a few of your POS's. But your vision of perfect nuetrality blinded you to a simple fact. You cannot survive in 0.0 without friends. And being nuetral just isn't very friendly. Bizzarely enough, that's similar to my recent thinking on the topic. One ironic thing of this war is that we've become a lot more like IAC in certain ways. We've dropped any attempt to be neutral, and have decided to stick with our friends through thick & thin. It's going to be a cold day in hell before we turn on LV, UK, or anyone else who's won our friendship. Even the IAC detractors have a hard time denying that they stick up for their friends, and keep pressing their enemies. Now that's an attitude we've adopted, it's kinda amusing that we're on opposite sides. As for the syndicate thing. When I first heard that, I was afraid it would get confised with the Intaki Syndicate. Insert Obligatory "Just an ISS grunt speaking his personal opinion" disclaimer here
0August0 Gallente Gooch Unlimited	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:19:00 - [103] Originally by: Vando It describes the situation in 100% positive terms for ISS. There is ZERO mention of the fragility of the current hold on the station, and zero reference to the KOS/IAC forces present. It paints a picture of a simple retake and no further actions to come, which is far from the case. You mean like Foofighter did in his earlier post regarding the first fall of the C3- station? Quote: Today after DT, a force comrpised of 30 Goonswarm, 40 KOS, and 80 IAC took the LV Calico station in C3- The ISS defending the system have put up a decent fight so far, but were again defeated after warping to the station. Lag was horrible btw. POS spam 4tl :) Notice there is no mention in that message of the fact that they'd loose sovereignty again which he knew would happen. It also describes the situation in 100% positive terms for the coalition. Where was your outrage then? . . . Regards, August
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:48:00 - [104] Originally by: 0August0 Originally by: Vando It describes the situation in 100% positive terms for ISS. There is ZERO mention of the fragility of the current hold on the station, and zero reference to the KOS/IAC forces present. It paints a picture of a simple retake and no further actions to come, which is far from the case. You mean like Foofighter did in his earlier post regarding the first fall of the C3- station? Quote: Today after DT, a force comrpised of 30 Goonswarm, 40 KOS, and 80 IAC took the LV Calico station in C3- The ISS defending the system have put up a decent fight so far, but were again defeated after warping to the station. Lag was horrible btw. POS spam 4tl :) Notice there is no mention in that message of the fact that they'd loose sovereignty again which he knew would happen. It also describes the situation in 100% positive terms for the coalition. Where was your outrage then? Then again, the Count alo failed to mention they will lose Sov in 5 days time back to KOS, and that should be the last time sov changes hands in C3-. The point here is why the hell would anyone make a post where they say "yeah we won today but its a shallow meaningless victory that doesn't matter anyway". The answer is because that would be just plain silly. ISS trys to boost morale in the same fashion I did. Except I refrained from bending the truth in order to try and sway sentiment towards one side. Luckily, only the ignorant fell for the Count's verbal sharade. Sadly though, there are a lot of ignorant people out there :\ -------------------------------------------------
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:10:00 - [105] Quote: Then again, the Count alo failed to mention they will lose Sov in 5 days time back to KOS, and that should be the last time sov changes hands in C3-. Assumption. History may prove you right - we will see in a few weeks. Until then, this is low-grade propoganda, and I expected better of you. Again, we're in the "two wrongs make a right" territory - a fallacial argument. Quote: The point here is why the hell would anyone make a post where they say "yeah we won today but its a shallow meaningless victory that doesn't matter anyway". The answer is because that would be just plain silly. I'm glad we're agreed. So the problem with the OP - which you freely admit is no different to your own - can be found where? Quote: ISS [tries] to boost morale in the same fashion I did. Except I refrained from bending the truth in order to try and sway sentiment towards one side. Luckily, only the ignorant fell for the Count's verbal [charade]. Sadly though, there are a lot of ignorant people out there :\ If Count bent the truth - which I would assert he did not - then you did too, foo. Try again.
Aelena Thraant Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:20:00 - [106] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Quote: Then again, the Count alo failed to mention they will lose Sov in 5 days time back to KOS, and that should be the last time sov changes hands in C3-. Assumption. History may prove you right - we will see in a few weeks. Until then, this is low-grade propoganda, and I expected better of you. Again, we're in the "two wrongs make a right" territory - a fallacial argument. Quote: The point here is why the hell would anyone make a post where they say "yeah we won today but its a shallow meaningless victory that doesn't matter anyway". The answer is because that would be just plain silly. ISS Guys... As a former KOS member... Keep checking each tower every day... KOS has a bad habit of forgetting to fuel their poses or not putting good amounts of stront in them... Just look at how fast they lost N7. That's when we left KOS... Wish we had left sooner but hind site. And even if they do keep them running for 5 days... Keep checking... You might get a pleasant surprise one day if history repeats itself. KOS owning stations again is so funny... (And no Aftermath doesn't own any stations Yet ) I'm glad we're agreed. So the problem with the OP - which you freely admit is no different to your own - can be found where? Quote: ISS [tries] to boost morale in the same fashion I did. Except I refrained from bending the truth in order to try and sway sentiment towards one side. Luckily, only the ignorant fell for the Count's verbal [charade]. Sadly though, there are a lot of ignorant people out there :\ If Count bent the truth - which I would assert he did not - then you did too, foo. Try again.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:26:00 - [107] Edited by: DHB FooFighter on 26/02/2007 23:30:31 Edit: im a noob with quotes. Quote: Assumption. History may prove you right - we will see in a few weeks. Until then, this is low-grade propoganda, and I expected better of you. Again, we're in the "two wrongs make a right" territory - a fallacial argument. What was implied dear sir, is that KOS now owns more then half the moons, so unless, as i stated earlier, you attack the POS Sov will not change hands. My "low-grade propoganda" is merely a statement of truth. Quote: I'm glad we're agreed. So the problem with the OP - which you freely admit is no different to your own - can be found where? I did not delve into the murky depths of the past in order to try and sway public opinion. Your dear Count spins falsehoods about past events in which the facts have been lost to rumour and myth. I did not say anything except what happened on that specific day. Quote: If Count bent the truth - which I would assert he did not - then you did too, foo. Try again. I said nothing that is not verifiable fact. Count however continues to leave out the fact that ISS attacked our POS first, ISS were the first to bring "friends" and he continualy tries to word his posts to try and make it seem as if IAC are nothing but war mongering POS spammers. Please, tell me where i'm wrong. -------------------------------------------------
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.27 00:03:00 - [108] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Please, tell me where i'm wrong. Gladly... (and my thanks for retaining civility) Quote: What was implied dear sir, is that KOS now owns more then half the moons, so unless, as i stated earlier, you attack the POS Sov will not change hands. My "low-grade propoganda" is merely a statement of truth. This comment here is indeed a statement of truth. However, you omitted the fact that sovereignty of the system can and will change in your thread, no different to Count. Is this bending the truth? Quote: I did not delve into the murky depths of the past in order to try and sway public opinion. Your dear Count spins falsehoods about past events in which the facts have been lost to rumour and myth. I did not say anything except what happened on that specific day. I see no inaccuracies in his brief historical account. Any historical content is a matter of public record - it's all here in the forums, should any "ignorant" person choose to find it. Quote: I said nothing that is not verifiable fact. Count however continues to leave out the fact that ISS attacked our POS first, ISS were the first to bring "friends" and he continualy tries to word his posts to try and make it seem as if IAC are nothing but war mongering POS spammers. War mongers perhaps; after all, you were the first to declare open hostilities. I fail to see where POS spamming is mentioned anywhere in the OP, however. Another attempt to spin this thread in your favour? As for asking for friendly support, I cannot in good conscience refute this without first posing you a question: When did SOD join the fray?
The Assyrian Mound of Severed Heads	Posted - 2007.02.27 00:11:00 - [109] Edited by: The Assyrian on 27/02/2007 00:07:51 Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos As for asking for friendly support, I cannot in good conscience refute this without first posing you a question: When did SOD join the fray? And the answer, contrary to DHB Foofighter's claims, is on the very first night. Other allies of IAC were on the scene within a day.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.27 00:27:00 - [110] Originally by: The Assyrian Edited by: The Assyrian on 27/02/2007 00:07:51 Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos As for asking for friendly support, I cannot in good conscience refute this without first posing you a question: When did SOD join the fray? And the answer, contrary to DHB Foofighter's claims, is on the very first night. Other allies of IAC were on the scene within a day. SoD is dead, I killed them. Anyway, SoD joined when we declared we wanted a bit of shoosty shoost with ISS, because they also wanted to shoot them. But if you paid any attention you will know that SoD did not participate in any IAC ops during the first month of the war, in fact they were so disillusioned by the blobs that they went up north for a while. SoD only came back when we offered them the ZXIC station because tbh, we couldn't be asked to put up more pos at that time. -------------------------------------------------
Tumbles Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.02.27 00:44:00 - [111] Originally by: Aelena Thraant Edited by: Aelena Thraant on 26/02/2007 23:18:11 ISS Guys... As a former KOS member... Keep checking each tower every day... KOS has a bad habit of forgetting to fuel their poses or not putting good amounts of stront in them... Just look at how fast they lost N7. That's when we left KOS... Wish we had left sooner but hind site. And even if they do keep them running for 5 days... Keep checking... You might get a pleasant surprise one day if history repeats itself. KOS owning stations again is so funny... (And no Aftermath doesn't own any stations Yet ) Hey Aelena, thanks for the concern. If we have any problems manageing our POSes we will be sure to give u a call and ask for your advice. In fact maybe you guys should re-apply to KOS and run our POSes for us? On another note: I just wanted to say to all the ISS and IAC pilots, i am just having a blast in c3-. Been good fights all around with wins and losses both ways. Good to have an all out brawl from time to time!! O7 - Tumbles
Malvahne FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.27 00:52:00 - [112] 6 hours of straight gate camping and not 1 kill. Any one care about signing my petition to make drones telport to targets instead of them mwding to them? All kidding aside, thanks ISS for a nother fun evening. As for me enough EVE for tonight. Bed time \o/
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.27 03:59:00 - [113] As an FYI, despite POS bugs with the re-inforced timer on our towers, KOS managed to put up another two large towers of there own in the system. This means they gain sov by two towers Saturday, and by four towers Sunday. It was nice to see both sides put there heads together, try to work what was going on with the bugs, and both agree that calling on CCP to try fix it was the appropriate course of action. In the end, KOS et al managed to kill our two before the issue was resolved, while we hit them where we could. Respect for pushing on through guys, you stayed on later than anyone expected to get the job done. Oh, Yet More props to Steelsky for loosing another ship in the call of duty. That man doesn't take the safe option, and is prepared to risk everything to help the alliance the best he can.
Abn Matar Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.27 11:37:00 - [114] Originally by: Omega Man ISS, I hope you fight to your last ISK. I think you mean your last isk... -------------------------------------------------- http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2310/16fd9c37ebc3fd5ee8fab1c1a8d9ca7fkr8.gif Your signature is larger than the forum allowed dimensions ( 400x120x 24000 bytes) . Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.27 12:55:00 - [115] Kudos to ISS who undocked a few ships straight into a bubble field....surprised to see you hit our snipers the way you did....still lost more ships but...kudos. Gratz KOS. Hope you reap the rewards of the station in a few days...
SSDD24 Gallente Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.27 12:57:00 - [116] Maybe if ISS had a real leadership, guys like Steelsky wouldnt have to suicide like that. Mate u earned our respect alongside with the other ISS grunts. Thanks Chief for givin us an extraordinary afternoon. No sigs, no quotes, no nothing... Just F1, F2, F3...and some smack when n sx isnt around!!!
Vando Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.27 13:20:00 - [117] To the people making the comparison to Foo's thread about the initial capture: That post was very different. X ships were present on each side, ISS fought well, station in the hands of KOS. Count's post was 'I'm not sure what happened but after being up against it since the original war in Catch now we've hit back and recaptured C3-'. Now, apart from both posts essentially saying the same thing ('we now hold C3-'), that isn't the important part. Foo's post told it like it was. Count's post told it how he wanted it to be. I don't care if the post says 'gf, we have C3- back, your move'. What gets to me and I presume the other IAC members posting here is the (admittedly clever) spin on the situation that makes it appear like a potential turning point in the fate of C3-. These first 2 captures, one for each side, are irrelevant. The difference is that one side is attempting to inflate the relevancy of their achievement. I know I'm mostly replying to the alt brigade here, sorry ISS people :) But I feel it needs to be highlighted for the benefit of the neutral observer who may put too much stock in the sniping from alts. The future of C3- as yet hangs in the balance, after all who knows what tomorrow may bring? Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] -Targoviste
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.27 13:41:00 - [118] Originally by: Silvestri Kudos to ISS who undocked a few ships straight into a bubble field....surprised to see you hit our snipers the way you did....still lost more ships but...kudos. I'd trade a few T1 frigs & cruisers for a T2 fitted faction BS any day of the week TBH. Not getting the Rokh was disappointing, but you guys just popped the tacklers too quick. Gratz for bringing it out to play. Unfortunately that guy's apparently got three more... We were hoping that it would pull more of the station camp off the undock point. But you guys were good enough to keep some back. Oh well, we got some more people out, so it didn't turn out too badly.
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.27 13:53:00 - [119] Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 27/02/2007 13:52:04 Quote: The difference is that one side is attempting to inflate the relevancy of their achievement. I disagree: After the Bottleshop siege, the battle for Catch was almost entirely a one-sided affair. Are we wrong to look on the recapture of ISS Calico in Tenerifis, given our abject failure in Catch, as a success? I don't think so, especially given the massive restructuring the Syndicate has undergone - and my objections in here make that quite plain. As for the "haziness" of the OP, that is simply explained: The recapture of the station was down to our pilots taking the initiative and rallying to take advantage of the lull in C3 during what was our own off-period. As I stated in another thread (foo's thread, for that matter), the station was taken with a mere 40 pilots, only one capital class ship and less than ten battleships.
Vando Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.27 14:12:00 - [120] I think the point has been discussed enough that everyone will be able to make up their own mind. You're quite entitled to your opinion, as the whole thing is down to personal valuations of this recapture. It is a success, no question. But IAC reserve the right to cast doubts as to the overall effectiveness of this success. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] -Targoviste

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