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PayMyIskNOW
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 16:30:12 -
[1] - Quote
Hi there guys!!
I've been talking with some friends to try to understand what is going on with the drops when we kill someone in high sec... I mean, especially when we gank someone. Not wardec or duel thing, i'm talking about real gank, when you become a criminal
The thing is: we noticed that the drops are very bad lately, almost everyone agrees that there must be something "wrong". Killmails of 2b, 3b, 5b or higher, and the drops are like 60m? 70m? 150m? What is going on? I could link you some exemples but i'm sure you guys got the idea...
So, CCP, did you guys changed the drop chance/the drop mechanics? Please, if you did, let us know!
Thx in advance! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7738
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 16:41:57 -
[2] - Quote
Deal with itGäó
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16065
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 16:42:49 -
[3] - Quote
Rng is r.
Side note the loot fairy is a loose hooer.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Paranoid Loyd
9086
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Posted - 2016.05.31 16:44:52 -
[4] - Quote
Haven't been active lately, however up until I became less active my drop rate always worked out to be ~50% whenever I would evaluate it.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2543
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 16:48:29 -
[5] - Quote
I can not confirm that.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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PayMyIskNOW
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 16:52:04 -
[6] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Haven't been active lately, however up until I became less active my drop rate always worked out to be ~50% whenever I would evaluate it.
And so was mine dude, my rate was about 50% as well. But believe me, now it's really different. I noticed it and asked some other friends, they said to be wonderin the same thing... I really don't know, that's why i came in here to ask... |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
317
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Posted - 2016.05.31 16:58:40 -
[7] - Quote
You could be right but keep in mind...odds are a funny thing.
I have personally witnessed a coin flip odds test (30 flips) at generating an 80% heads result with the coin being rotated which face was up side each time.
So, if your loot roll was the same and was getting a 'tails it's your loot' for the determiner, yeah, you'd have had a 20% take home in that instance I cited.
People tend to remember the negatives well, or an extreme positive, but we forget middle stuff as it's not worth the neurons to hold the data.
My advice would be to track it, not just you, but all of you. See if the drop rate has really changed.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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PayMyIskNOW
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:08:33 -
[8] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:You could be right but keep in mind...odds are a funny thing.
I have personally witnessed a coin flip odds test (30 flips) at generating an 80% heads result with the coin being rotated which face was up side each time.
So, if your loot roll was the same and was getting a 'tails it's your loot' for the determiner, yeah, you'd have had a 20% take home in that instance I cited.
People tend to remember the negatives well, or an extreme positive, but we forget middle stuff as it's not worth the neurons to hold the data.
My advice would be to track it, not just you, but all of you. See if the drop rate has really changed.
It makes sense dude. i understand what you mean and i agree with it. But before i come here, i got in contact with many players and asked them if they "felt" the drop rates were odd. Almost all of them said it was kind of confusing, so we are intrigued... We are tracking it, all of us, to try to understand it... If needed, we are going for a depth statistical study. Thx for your time!
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
398
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:12:59 -
[9] - Quote
Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2524
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:16:32 -
[10] - Quote
What is your sample size? Let's talk again when you've completed another 100 ganks.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Super Ormand
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.05.31 17:18:21 -
[11] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above.
First, the goal of the gank here is to make some isk, not fight. Second, the gank is so legitimate as ratting, mining or trade. |
PayMyIskNOW
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:19:28 -
[12] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above.
You must be a carebear full of hate! We all do pvp, probably much better than you do, gank for us in the way we make some isk! And we are spread in eve, low, hs and null pvping, hs is the place we use to make isk, not ony ratting or PI as you probably do. Pathetic!
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2158
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:20:52 -
[13] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above.
Either way someone's taking your money. What difference does it make where it happens? If I want to eat I tend to go where the food is.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
398
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:21:26 -
[14] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above. You must be a carebear full of hate! We all do pvp, probably much better than you do, gank for us in the way we make some isk! And we are spread in eve, low, hs and null pvping, hs is the place we use to make isk, not ony ratting or PI as you probably do. Pathetic!
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PayMyIskNOW
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:24:45 -
[15] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:What is your sample size? Let's talk again when you've completed another 100 ganks.
My gank size is YEARS of ganking, 100 is a real low number to be honest. I know what i'm taking about.... |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12217
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:26:36 -
[16] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is your sample size? Let's talk again when you've completed another 100 ganks. My gank size is YEARS of ganking, 100 is a real low number to be honest. I know what i'm taking about....
Over time - and at some point in the future, although it might be a very long time - it will all even out to about 50%. Promise! :)
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
360
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:57:05 -
[17] - Quote
Bring sacrifice to the Loot Fairy, you must.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3858
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 18:17:58 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 18:32:44 -
[19] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is your sample size? Let's talk again when you've completed another 100 ganks. My gank size is YEARS of ganking, 100 is a real low number to be honest. I know what i'm taking about....
Then tell us what your sample size is, and the drop percentage. You can even compare a month a year ago and last month if you do not want to go through all the data. Or post with your main, so we can do the calculations for you. But you will not as you are not really interested in if the drop rate has decreased (If you did you would have done some basic math)... So I call troll
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2896
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 18:38:04 -
[20] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.
Except that would require the drop system to have been modified since it worked before and everyone would notice, not just one group of HS gankers. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7085
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 18:40:39 -
[21] - Quote
Wow. It's like a salt quarry in here.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1102
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 18:40:55 -
[22] - Quote
also the value of a stack does not factor into the calculations. Saying that X loot out of 5 bil dropped doesn't mean much. Showing consistently that 10% of the loot drop does. |
PayMyIskNOW
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 18:54:11 -
[23] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:PayMyIskNOW wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is your sample size? Let's talk again when you've completed another 100 ganks. My gank size is YEARS of ganking, 100 is a real low number to be honest. I know what i'm taking about.... Then tell us what your sample size is, and the drop percentage. You can even compare a month a year ago and last month if you do not want to go through all the data. Or post with your main, so we can do the calculations for you. But you will not as you are not really interested in if the drop rate has decreased (If you did you would have done some basic math)... So I call troll
The drop percentage is less than 10% now, compared with 2 months ago, wich was, as i said, 50%, just as it was an year or 2 ago. I NEVER SAID the drop rate has changed, i'm here to try to understand, since i've noticed it MAY have changed based on my experience and some reports from others gankers. The basic math is done, now can you tell me why i would be trolling? And ofc i won't post with my main, why would i? It would be so amateur...
Once again, i'm not saying it has changed, i'm here to get others players opinions, not comments from haters.
@Topic
If you are not a ganker, a CCP member, or you don't understand sh1t about the topic, try to stay out of it please. |
Super Ormand
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 19:11:16 -
[24] - Quote
My last 10 ganks:
Dropped: 5,530,295.38 ISK Destroyed: 454,458,561.03 ISK
Dropped: 8,639,363.84 ISK Destroyed: 354,927,396.51 ISK
Dropped: 245,219,257.65 ISK Destroyed: 314,853,037.02 ISK
Dropped: 194,968,403.46 ISK Destroyed: 209,530,947.07 ISK
Dropped: 745,453.16 ISK Destroyed: 2,008,922,231.27 ISK
Dropped: 16,964,911.71 ISK Destroyed: 479,770,974.11 ISK
Dropped: 183,888,686.09 ISK Destroyed: 715,576,785.53 ISK
Dropped: 487,222,279.91 ISK Destroyed: 5,411,320.31 ISK
Dropped: 94,397,186.30 ISK Destroyed: 359,579,788.98 ISK
Dropped: 31,839,622.21 ISK Destroyed: 1,263,225,319.31 ISK
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1102
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 19:18:07 -
[25] - Quote
Why care about the isk value? A stack of 100 PLEX has the same drop percentage as a stack of 1 trit. Going just by isk, we don't know the ammount of stacks or how many dropped.
And I know fry own manufacturing and shop fitting experiences, the value of a cargo is not evenly distributed among all stacks. There are often many stacks that are worth far less than the 1 or two stacks of expensive items. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2896
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 19:19:49 -
[26] - Quote
Super Ormand wrote:My last 10 ganks:
Dropped: 5,530,295.38 ISK Destroyed: 454,458,561.03 ISK
Dropped: 8,639,363.84 ISK Destroyed: 354,927,396.51 ISK
Dropped: 245,219,257.65 ISK Destroyed: 314,853,037.02 ISK
Dropped: 194,968,403.46 ISK Destroyed: 209,530,947.07 ISK
Dropped: 745,453.16 ISK Destroyed: 2,008,922,231.27 ISK
Dropped: 16,964,911.71 ISK Destroyed: 479,770,974.11 ISK
Dropped: 183,888,686.09 ISK Destroyed: 715,576,785.53 ISK
Dropped: 487,222,279.91 ISK Destroyed: 5,411,320.31 ISK
Dropped: 94,397,186.30 ISK Destroyed: 359,579,788.98 ISK
Dropped: 31,839,622.21 ISK Destroyed: 1,263,225,319.31 ISK
This does not tell much since it does not tell how much of the destroyed was the ship hull or the rigs for example which can't drop. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16070
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 19:21:16 -
[27] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table. Wait to ruin my illusions vincent.
**** it im making my own one up : Ok so, in a data center, somewhere in london ,within deep cavernous halls of server hardware and serpentine ethernet cables ,
There is a hampster , with a pair of die, whenever you pop someone, the hampster throws the die at the nearest ccp employee.
What he roles determines partly much you get in a drop, who he hits determines the quality of the drop.
CCP Dev : 100% modules + cargo , no plex CCP GM : 50% modules , no cargo , no plex CCP Qa : staff 50% cargo no modules , no plex Ian the janitor : Plex.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Cytherea Deesse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 20:19:12 -
[28] - Quote
You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?
When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7740
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 20:31:14 -
[29] - Quote
Were it up to meGäó, I would base the drop on the damage received.
Imagine I had a container. And that container had to be broken to open it.
If I lightly damaged the container only enough to gain access to the inside of it, it could be expected that the contents would be mostly intact.
If I put the container, say the size of a gym bag, and placed it on a crate of TNT, the container will be opened, that is certain, but the contents would probably be beyond use.
Thus it would only make sense that blasting a ship with so much force and so rapidly would destroy the cargo than if you took time to whittle it down slowly.
I think it would be best if gankers refrained from complaining.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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W33b3l
Conquest and Kittens
102
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 20:39:15 -
[30] - Quote
I know the drop rate is RNG but it doesn't feel that way when you loot a lot of times.
Ive personally never seen a kill mail where plex dropped. I beleieve loot rng is working as intended because we could always quess the average like I do with imvention chances when buying datacores, but ive had a feeling that the drop rate for plex is programmed differently then everything else ever sense they started allowing people to undock with it.
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Martis Gradivus
EVE University Ivy League
25
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Posted - 2016.05.31 20:59:43 -
[31] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table. Wait to ruin my illusions vincent. **** it im making my own one up : Ok so, in a data center, somewhere in london ,within deep cavernous halls of server hardware and serpentine ethernet cables , There is a hampster , with a pair of die, whenever you pop someone, the hampster throws the die at the nearest ccp employee. What he roles determines partly much you get in a drop, who he hits determines the quality of the drop. CCP Dev : 100% modules + cargo , no plex CCP GM : 50% modules , no cargo , no plex CCP Qa : staff no cargo no modules , no plex, just a few assortement of bugs added to the next patch/expansion Ian the janitor : Plex.
I fixed that CCP QA line for ya..... |
aldhura
Bartledannians The Ascendancy Protocol
44
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 21:12:16 -
[32] - Quote
I have noticed a drop in melted nano ribbon drops from the sleepers in wh's, maybe that can be fixed too. Zorr in damsel also doesn't consistently drop the expensive implant, fix that too please.
Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
503
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 21:47:01 -
[33] - Quote
This reminds me of a thread from a while back where somebody was saying it appeared that their Geckos were getting any wrecking shots. (Wrecking shots are when the to-hit RNG generates a number below 0.01 and the shot then does 3x base damage.) There was a fair bit of back-and-forth discuss, and to satisfy myself I combed through my client logs and counted all Gecko shots and all Gecko wrecking shots - sure enough, 1% of all shots were wrecking shots.
Somebody who is concerned about this should comb through actual kill data and count dropped and not-dropped items stacks. (Ignoring ISK value, as that apparently does not factor in to the drop calculation.) How something "feels" with a small sample size is meaningless. One source of data is CCP Quant's Mar 1 through Apr 4 kill dump. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6428000#post6428000 That's old of course, so perhaps zkill could be a source - IIRC, squizz has some sort of interface that allows for downloading kill data. |
Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
125
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 22:05:28 -
[34] - Quote
Even the non-sentient RNG knows you're an *******. Enjoy your crappy drops! |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
171
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 23:14:42 -
[35] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:
The drop percentage is less than 10% now, compared with 2 months ago, wich was, as i said, 50%, just as it was an year or 2 ago. I NEVER SAID the drop rate has changed, i'm here to try to understand, since i've noticed it MAY have changed based on my experience and some reports from others gankers. The basic math is done, now can you tell me why i would be trolling? And ofc i won't post with my main, why would i? It would be so amateur...
Once again, i'm not saying it has changed, i'm here to get others players opinions, not comments from haters.
@Topic
If you are not a ganker, a CCP member, or you don't understand sh1t about the topic, try to stay out of it please.
luckily you don't get to decide if I stay out of it or not. I am not hating, but you did for example not mention the 10% in your op (Which you btw. still have not mentioned the samplesize of the data that gave 10% and the samplesize of the data that gave 50%). I went through my own data from this week and it seems that around 50% of the items are dropping, but the percentage of the total value dropping is below 10% for around 100 kills in lowsec (gate camping etc.). But I would not conclude too much from that, as I found similar numbers in nov. 2015. So I assume that sometimes you are just unlucky.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2160
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 23:23:05 -
[36] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table. Wait to ruin my illusions vincent. **** it im making my own one up : Ok so, in a data center, somewhere in london ,within deep cavernous halls of server hardware and serpentine ethernet cables , There is a hampster , with a pair of die, whenever you pop someone, the hampster throws the die at the nearest ccp employee. What he roles determines partly much you get in a drop, who he hits determines the quality of the drop. CCP Dev : 100% modules + cargo , no plex CCP GM : 50% modules , no cargo , no plex CCP Qa : staff 50% cargo no modules , no plex Ian the janitor : Plex.
I like this idea.
I would however like to introduce a little peril.
Imagine the hamster is strapped onto a glass tumbler (butt down) and fed a steady stream of delicious but indigestible die shaped kibbles, laced with Rohypnol.
Each time a ship is destroyed, a loudspeaker emits a tremendous explosion causing the hamster to evacuate the aforementioned kibbles into the tumbler violently. Thanks to the Rohypnol, the explosion will never cease to be a surprise.
Mum says I'm overtired and should turn my light out.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
321
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Posted - 2016.06.01 00:02:23 -
[37] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.
While that makes a good degree of sense, I'd like to see that algorithm as the odds would have to change the further it got away from their target % variable. Now, it could be a coding issue, if so, they should be warned in the issues threads, not GD.
I don't really hunt through killmails much, I've looked at enough of them to know it's pretty darned random what drops, but I can't say for certain it's always with in X% of 50%.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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nezroy
Nice Clan
7
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Posted - 2016.06.01 01:14:17 -
[38] - Quote
Go to zkillboard. Filter for high sec ganks going back, say, one month. Count the number of stacks that dropped vs the number of stacks in cargo (ISK value not relevant to this at all, by the way). Return here if the numbers is far from 50% by some statistical significance.
(Hint: you won't be back)
You are the one making an exceptional claim, so you are the one who gets to go provide evidence for that claim. Lucky for you there is a large amount of data available to the public so you should have no problem doing this. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3662
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 01:16:39 -
[39] - Quote
Honestly, if you're ganking for the ISK you're ganking for the wrong reasons. |
Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
252
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 01:21:39 -
[40] - Quote
This OP is so ridiculous I truly am finding it difficult to decide to laugh or cry. "Hey. I victimize somebody and expect a monetary return, but it's not there! My criminal activity isn't paying off! BALANCE THE GAME!!"
However...on a lighter note. Some people even think chance should be a surety - if only for THEM.
Akirei Scytale wrote:Honestly, if you're ganking for the ISK you're ganking for the wrong reasons. Right! What do you expect? Pad your killboard AND make ISK???
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Cranial Rectidus
ElevenBravo
25
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 03:56:26 -
[41] - Quote
Super Ormand wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above. First, the goal of the gank here is to make some isk, not fight. Second, the gank is so legitimate as ratting, mining or trade.
The goal of the hi-sec gank sqaud is to avoid having to make any real money where people actually have a chance to fight back and ruin your mining-industrial-hauler gank fit ships. The old days of ganking you got your ship and loot and left the pod (unless he was afk). Now days it has become even more honorless than it was before because it isn't about getting the isk, it is about causing the other player to lose as much as possible.. So are you including your implant losses to your pod kills in your numbers? |
ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
383
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 06:26:24 -
[42] - Quote
Posting in a Quality Shiptoast thread.
~ISD Buldath
Commander
Support, Training and Resources Division
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2161
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 06:46:20 -
[43] - Quote
ISD Buldath wrote:Posting in a Quality Shiptoast thread.
Anyone challenging RNJesus to a duel is setting themselves up to fail. Shiptoasring is inevitable.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
|
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 06:54:03 -
[44] - Quote
I know the problem. All the rookie ships you're losing by ganking stations (drawing concord away from gates) drop everything (THE TRIT!!) are balancing your no drop freighters. So if you stop sacrificing rookie ships you might have more success getting better drops from freighter ganks.
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Khannu
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 07:24:04 -
[45] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Honestly, if you're ganking for the ISK you're ganking for the wrong reasons.
you obviously have never done ganks :P |
Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
201
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 07:29:40 -
[46] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:Hi there guys!!
I've been talking with some friends to try to understand what is going on with the drops when we kill someone in high sec...
[...]
So, CCP, did you guys changed the drop chance/the drop mechanics? Please, if you did, let us know!
The drops you aim to collect are called teardrops. If this number is reduced, while the number of ganks performed remains stable this might be an indication of the overall population growing or hardening up. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
483
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 07:39:19 -
[47] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:The drops you aim to collect are called teardrops. If this number is reduced, while the number of ganks performed remains stable this might be an indication of the overall population growing or hardening up. If only this were true (the last bit of your post). Alas, the first bit was also wrong (not totally, but not completely right either). |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
11377
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 08:12:11 -
[48] - Quote
You still have a lot of fun ganking people, let it be your paycheck.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Planetary Interaction 2.1
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
483
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 08:23:28 -
[49] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:You still have a lot of fun ganking people, let it be your paycheck. Unfortunately, even 20,000 years in the future it's unlikely that being a breatharian will be good for long term survival.
ISK is a necessary evil and for those that like fun more than grind, ganking is a good option to gain said ISK by relieving it from people that just horde it.
Gankers are really Eve's equivalent of Robin Hood. Rob from the rich, to give to the poor (and charity starts in the home). |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1798
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 08:41:10 -
[50] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote: The thing is: we noticed that the drops are very bad lately, almost everyone agrees that there must be something "wrong". Killmails of 2b, 3b, 5b or higher, and the drops are like 60m? 70m? 150m? What is going on? I could link you some exemples but i'm sure you guys got the idea...
i was dealing with this "50% drop chance" for all the years i was ganking FW n00bs. Some say it is RNG. But RNG produces some median result over the time if you give big enough set of encounters. In my case drop chance is about 25-30%.
So yeah... either it's CCP(c) RNG and you just bad lucker like me
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
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Alastair Ormand
Mine all the things
151
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 09:57:37 -
[51] - Quote
Everything has a risk, you of all people should know this. You blow a ship up you spin the wheel of loot. Bad luck if it doesn't give you what you want.
I discourage running with scissors.
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6169
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 10:46:40 -
[52] - Quote
Easily explained: Donuts for CONCORD. |
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
66
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 11:11:56 -
[53] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:Hi there guys!! I've been talking with some friends to try to understand what is going on with the drops when we kill someone in high sec... I mean, especially when we gank someone. Not wardec or duel thing, i'm talking about real gank, when you become a criminal The thing is: we noticed that the drops are very bad lately, almost everyone agrees that there must be something "wrong". Killmails of 2b, 3b, 5b or higher, and the drops are like 60m? 70m? 150m? What is going on? I could link you some exemples but i'm sure you guys got the idea... So, CCP, did you guys changed the drop chance/the drop mechanics? Please, if you did, let us know! Thx in advance!
I thought somebody who is a 'true' ganker does it for the laughs and not the expected quality/quantity reward of the drop. You deserve everything you get.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
|
Iain Cariaba
3060
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 01:41:48 -
[54] - Quote
Super Ormand wrote:My last 10 ganks:
Dropped: 5,530,295.38 ISK Destroyed: 454,458,561.03 ISK
Dropped: 8,639,363.84 ISK Destroyed: 354,927,396.51 ISK
Dropped: 245,219,257.65 ISK Destroyed: 314,853,037.02 ISK
Dropped: 194,968,403.46 ISK Destroyed: 209,530,947.07 ISK
Dropped: 745,453.16 ISK Destroyed: 2,008,922,231.27 ISK
Dropped: 16,964,911.71 ISK Destroyed: 479,770,974.11 ISK
Dropped: 183,888,686.09 ISK Destroyed: 715,576,785.53 ISK
Dropped: 487,222,279.91 ISK Destroyed: 5,411,320.31 ISK
Dropped: 94,397,186.30 ISK Destroyed: 359,579,788.98 ISK
Dropped: 31,839,622.21 ISK Destroyed: 1,263,225,319.31 ISK
FYI: Value of the item is totally irrelevant when the loot fairy decides what drops or not. If you have one PLEX and one Carbon in your hold when your ship explodes, each has an equal chance of dropping.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
lollerwaffle
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
307
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 02:16:03 -
[55] - Quote
Lots of people who have never ganked before making up motivation for ganking in here LOLOLOL |
Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
932
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 04:09:54 -
[56] - Quote
My motivation for ganking is purely altruistic, I do this to help people.
I go for pods, even though there's no loot for me. I lose isk doing that actually, which just proves I'm doing this for good reasons. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3663
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 07:15:08 -
[57] - Quote
Khannu wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Honestly, if you're ganking for the ISK you're ganking for the wrong reasons. you obviously have never done ganks :P
But I have? |
Erin Oswell
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
43
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 09:36:51 -
[58] - Quote
Checking zkillboard would be a good place to get some estimates on recent drops, and compare them with drops from a few months ago maybe but I don't think there's been any change as I've seen people miss on Plex drops and people gain plex drops and I've seen people get nothing but the worst item even though the rest was valuable loot. For now at least, I'm satisfied that loot drops are purely random and seem to even out in the end.
You just need to hang a horseshoe on your hull or gank a leprechaun at the end of his rainbow.
Rules of Acquisition #13: "Anything worth doing is worth doing for money"
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
976
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 09:59:10 -
[59] - Quote
Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.
Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."
Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!"
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Aurelius Ignum
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 10:19:23 -
[60] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:
I know what i'm taking about....
Famous last words. Almost as famous as "Watch this" or "Hold my beer". But not nearly as entertaining as hearing a Lt. say "In my experience".
|
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1799
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 11:22:19 -
[61] - Quote
Cytherea Deesse wrote:You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?
When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg. When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.
I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be.
From my anecdotal evidences: Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules.
Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2904
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 13:43:31 -
[62] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Cytherea Deesse wrote:You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?
When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg. When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.
The game does not care if the player think in ISK instead of in items. The code run in item stacks so the value can vary by a lot depending on the value of each unique stack but that's no fault of the game. |
ornella Tivianne
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 14:16:38 -
[63] - Quote
ganking is paying far too much anyway. should be barely profitable.
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Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
306
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 14:42:59 -
[64] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.
Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."
Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!" tHIS IS 100% TRUE except FOR THE PART WHERE YOU SAY IF SOME OTHER SCRUB STARTED A PROOFLESS TINFOIL WHINY THREAD ON AN ALT YOU THINK WE WOULD ALSO NOT TROLL THEM.
God highsec players, weather merc, ganker, or bear are the worst. |
Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
306
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 14:58:04 -
[65] - Quote
I just look at 4 of the top 5 kills in Niarja. (Timestamps: 2016-05-31 21:45 2016-05-29 14:46 2016-05-30 13:38 2016-05-29 10:17)
They dropped a total of 33 out of an even 70 items. This is a 47% drop rate. I know it's only 4 samples but it's 4 more than anyone saying otherwise has provided. Numbers or GTFO.
EDIT: Actually it's 70 samples as each drop is calculated individually. Plz quit whining now? |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
327
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 15:04:43 -
[66] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:God highsec players, weather merc, ganker, or bear are the worst.
OH, now you've done it...
In truth, where you live doesn't seem to effect the whine level. I've watched LoSecc'ers come and cry here, NullSecc'ers go bonkers. It's the human beast that doesn't like change but actually creates change all the time. We're kind of weird that way.
Everyone gripes about what is irking them at that particular moment. Some folks turn it into an art form.
Just pat them on the back, give them a hug and move on.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Random Majere
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
137
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 16:16:50 -
[67] - Quote
This is a thread about droppings! |
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
343
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 17:02:18 -
[68] - Quote
It'd be pretty lazy programming and risky to rely purely on an RNG, as they are never really R.
As stated on the first page, it's more likely that it's a programmed algorithm that is fine-tuned to give the appearance of randomosity (tm).
I guess it a compliment to the programmers that so many folks believe it to be random.
What's the saying? "The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist."
Dum Spiro Spero
Not getting SP for not killing a rat is like not getting ore for not mining an asteroid.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7753
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 17:33:05 -
[69] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Cytherea Deesse wrote:You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?
When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg. When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'. I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be. From my anecdotal evidences: Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules. Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop.
I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability.
For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp.
You roll the car.
Which item in the trunk survives intact?
I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Kipp Braddock
Delta One Squadron
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 18:35:33 -
[70] - Quote
No drop for gankers.
I'll shed (a) tear for you.
Curious - since this is a RNG game, wouldn't be cool if your ganks in rookie and frigate ships reflected equally for both sides?
|
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2905
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 19:17:44 -
[71] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:March rabbit wrote:Cytherea Deesse wrote:You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?
When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg. When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'. I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be. From my anecdotal evidences: Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules. Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop. I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability. For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp. You roll the car. Which item in the trunk survives intact? I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores.
So armor plates and hull mods survive since they are solid structure and the rest always shatter because electronics don't fare well during explosions?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7753
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 19:48:12 -
[72] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:March rabbit wrote:Cytherea Deesse wrote:You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?
When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg. When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'. I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be. From my anecdotal evidences: Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules. Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop. I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability. For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp. You roll the car. Which item in the trunk survives intact? I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores. So armor plates and hull mods survive since they are solid structure and the rest always shatter because electronics don't fare well during explosions?
Maybe. I would imagine though that electronics would further suffer if the damage type used to down the vessel was EM. But there is no known effect of damage type and drops.
(I'm having Tie Fighter flashbacks taking out B-wings using strictly ion cannons to disable them)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2906
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 20:05:30 -
[73] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:March rabbit wrote:Cytherea Deesse wrote:You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?
When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg. When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'. I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be. From my anecdotal evidences: Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules. Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop. I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability. For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp. You roll the car. Which item in the trunk survives intact? I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores. So armor plates and hull mods survive since they are solid structure and the rest always shatter because electronics don't fare well during explosions? Maybe. I would imagine though that electronics would further suffer if the damage type used to down the vessel was EM. But there is no known effect of damage type and drops. (I'm having Tie Fighter flashbacks taking out B-wings using strictly ion cannons to disable them)
Electronics react badly to everything. Heat mess it up so thermal is good to damage it, it react badly to explosions (what doesn't anyway?), it react badly to EM shockwave and I'm pretty sure kinetic impact are bad for it too... |
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
343
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 22:17:39 -
[74] - Quote
I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0
Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do.
Dum Spiro Spero
Not getting SP for not killing a rat is like not getting ore for not mining an asteroid.
|
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
976
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 22:47:58 -
[75] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.
Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."
Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!" tHIS IS 100% TRUE except FOR THE PART WHERE YOU SAY IF SOME OTHER SCRUB STARTED A PROOFLESS TINFOIL WHINY THREAD ON AN ALT YOU THINK WE WOULD ALSO NOT TROLL THEM. God highsec players, weather merc, ganker, or bear are the worst.
I just don't think people would be so "Well if it was, then good!" about it.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
173
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 07:43:28 -
[76] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.
Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."
Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!"
Your premise is wrong. What people are saying is that there no "obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics". And if there is, prove it. But OP or anyone else has not been able to do this. That you guys cannot understand that 50% of the stacks drop, but that the stacks does not have the same value, is not our problem and it is not unfair.
Another fault in your reasoning is that you think this only applies to gankers. This applies to every PVP'er, but every PVP'er is not whining..... only you and OP....
The third wrong statement you make "Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."". Literally go to GD and look at every whinebear thread and see how they are trolled to oblivion.
So the reason you guys get heat, is because your arguments are bad not because you are suicide gankers. Many of us are also gankers in one form or another (Bloppers and gatecampers). And any day of the week I would point out bad arguments, where I see them regardless of what you do in EVE. So you are not getting special treatment, you just think you are.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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erg cz
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
453
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 08:23:05 -
[77] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:... ratting or PI as you probably do. Pathetic!
I, personaly, find pathetic to shoot defenseless ships, unless they are war targets. True heroes fight for their race, soverenity, some place they call "home", IMHO. But I understand, that for many 1337 pvpiers ganking can be the way to fix their selfesteem... For me Eve is beautiful because it has lore, it is more then simple "counter-strike in space".
Ganking as source of ISK seems to me weird, so I would welcome if criminal act will not result in droping some lootable wrecks at all. Or since after citadels we already have "assets safety", why not implement same for freighters, that were killed in high sec without being war target. On the other hand simple no loot wreck for anything, that was ganked, would be even better for eve economy. More ISK sinks we have - the better.
I know very well, CCP does not see it that way and it is their game. So we can see the single item from cargo hold droped as loot, just like that. With such examples in mind, I would say, that OP is not correct - loot still drops as before. Here it seems, that ISK value of droped items is very low comparing to total kill worth, but it is just because 6000 pieces of Nanite Repair Paste is one item of loot, just as1 Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I. Number of destroyed and salvaged items is exactly 50/50, though ISK value is incomparable.
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra week of Eve for free!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7753
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 08:28:56 -
[78] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0
Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do.
I wrecked an HDD the same way.
The MacBook Pro surrounded it survived thankfully (Boss's laptop )
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
494
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 08:30:38 -
[79] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0
Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do. Exploding pixels don't actually get damaged, they just change RGB values. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
11409
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 08:37:46 -
[80] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:KaarBaak wrote:I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0
Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do. Exploding pixels don't actually get damaged, they just change RGB values. Actually for capsuleer i think its like a hit in back of the head, they become uncoscious and last thing they can see by split of a second with implants and the rest of functioning equipment still attached from capsule to their body is when camera drone zooms onto their naked and bruised body in space.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
77
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 08:59:33 -
[81] - Quote
Let's look the "potential" killmail from my alt: Occator About 200 millions Rigs, less than 2 millions 11 fitted modules, about 15 millions. Cargo of organic mortars applications: about 250 millions
A grand total of about 467 millions.
About 50% chance of getting 258 millions, 50% of getting 8 millions.
Average of several ganks of ships with the same set up: 133 millions.
It is a granted thing that if you have a 50% chance of getting every single stack and you factor in the ship and rigs in the value of the killmail, you will never get 50% of the killmail value if you average several kills.
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NotTheSmartestCookie
New Order Logistics CODE.
133
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 10:32:30 -
[82] - Quote
I can't decide. On one hand an ill-thought-out, nebbisch idea, on the other hand the use of all caps and five question marks make a convincing case.
Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.
Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.
Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
|
ube smoked
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 10:37:54 -
[83] - Quote
The wreck will go blue for all to loot. Simply have your alt close by to scoop it up. Simple. |
Tristan Agion
Viziam Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 11:05:08 -
[84] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:All the rookie ships you're losing by ganking stations (drawing concord away from gates) drop everything (THE TRIT!!) are balancing your no drop freighters. So if you stop sacrificing rookie ships you might have more success getting better drops from freighter ganks.
Thanks, man! You just answered a "WTF is this all about" newbie question for me. Where my toon is currently parked for dailies I often find a lot of dead rookie ships on undock, and it was freaking me out. Now I understand what is going on there...
|
Narrisse Chelien
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 11:15:15 -
[85] - Quote
the fact you make any profit at all while suicide ganking - destroying someone in a throwaway ship - should be enough.
i have no problem with ganking, but the very nature of suicide ganking should not inherently be very profitable or very consistent. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
11412
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 11:31:27 -
[86] - Quote
The very nature of suicide when ganking is not really aplicable to this game. Its not suicide, its minor inconvenience here.
Maybe because of that when you want someone to really remove himself from EVE, you would have to make him not play like in "I am out of this game and this community".
I have heard few stories of players bullying others to the point they dropped subscription because they could not take it longer.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Yochi Miyatsuda
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 11:51:22 -
[87] - Quote
Ha!
An "Eve is hard" thread from the very people who pride themselves on educating others that "Eve is hard!"
:p |
Pippan
MongStars
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 12:26:13 -
[88] - Quote
I had a venture kill yesterday where none of the mods or drones dropped. Checkmate atheists! |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
976
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 13:02:51 -
[89] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.
Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."
Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!" Your premise is wrong. What people are saying is that there no "obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics". And if there is, prove it. But OP or anyone else has not been able to do this. That you guys cannot understand that 50% of the stacks drop, but that the stacks does not have the same value, is not our problem and it is not unfair. Another fault in your reasoning is that you think this only applies to gankers. This applies to every PVP'er, but every PVP'er is not whining..... only you and OP....The third wrong statement you make "Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."". Literally go to GD and look at every whinebear thread and see how they are trolled to oblivion. So the reason you guys get heat, is because your arguments are bad not because you are suicide gankers. Many of us are also gankers in one form or another (Bloppers and gatecampers). And any day of the week I would point out bad arguments, where I see them regardless of what you do in EVE. So you are not getting special treatment, you just think you are.
I guess you missed the first sentence of the post you replied to? Ya know, the one where I stated that I agree that this is all mumbo-jumbo?
Reading Comprehension IV
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
173
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 19:47:17 -
[90] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:
I guess you missed the first sentence of the post you replied to? Ya know, the one where I stated that I agree that this is all mumbo-jumbo?
Reading Comprehension IV
My apologies then, I sometimes shoot too fast. But to be fair
Galaxy Pig wrote:Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers. could be more clear.... I think you agree, that it is easy to read this as you think the drop the drop mechanics are skewed/unfair, due to the word obviously (like it is clear for everyone how skewed it is). I don't think "Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology" either does much to tell that you think it is mumbo jumbo tbh. In fact point out to me, where in that sentence you clearly write you don't think that the drop mechanics are skewed.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
|
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
976
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 20:49:29 -
[91] - Quote
I'm not getting into a meta-argument with you, brother. It's plain English.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
|
Felix Judge
Regnum Ludorum
45
|
Posted - 2016.06.07 09:08:55 -
[92] - Quote
Make an extensive data analysis of all [maybe only of highsec] ship kills and see if it is 50% or not. Scrape zkillboard. Ask Gevlon Goblin. Or whatever. And still keep in mind: it could very well be something else than 50% for a month or two and still not prove that anything has changed.
Actually, it never would prove anything. But only after two months of continual deviation in the same direction would I start to consider that something has changed. |
ImmortalWarHero 514NERC0
NECROM0NGERS Spaceships in Space
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.07 23:45:26 -
[93] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.
lol and i thought the nerf bat was bad |
Capn'JT Kirk
Starship Enterprise.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 08:56:49 -
[94] - Quote
How does the algorithm identify "gankers". Does it include all gankers in all secs 24/7?
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
503
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 09:21:52 -
[95] - Quote
Capn'JT Kirk wrote:How does the algorithm identify "gankers". Does it include all gankers in all secs 24/7?
So who's ever alt you are, your 3rd forum post is in this thread?
A Character named after one if ScFi's most famous pvp characters of all time. A semi-rogue leader willing at any moment to make a decision himself; and yet you portray the very epitome of CareBear.
Who ever you are on the other side of the keyboard, naming yourself after a SiFi warrior, doesn't make you strong and it doesn't give your life meaning.
It's only CareBears in this game that get upset with being ganked, becuase somehow through their characters, they think they are achieving something and being killed hurts that fantasy.
Put Eve away mate. Go achieve something IRL. Eve isn't a replacement for RL success. |
Morgan Agrivar
Peace.Keepers
339
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 10:26:33 -
[96] - Quote
I was planning on putting in my own two isk but I think I just overdosed on sodium just in this thread.
I think I need to get a drink of water and lie down.
This would cure me of the fear...
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Walton Simons
Primary Industries TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 22:10:28 -
[97] - Quote
Hope they did change the drop chances so you get jack ****
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Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1184
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 03:14:40 -
[98] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table. PRNG is not something application developers ever have to program. Most major languages have libraries for it. I know C++ does as I've used it. I'm sure Python has at least one. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1802
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 05:16:39 -
[99] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rng is r.
In fact, its not. Its a programmed algorithm with results that are totally deterministic. It just appears random. But because it is a deterministic algorithm means that if CCP somehow made a programming error, we could be getting skewed results. Example: Once everyone thought the RNG was just randomly not spawning any Arkonor. It turned out CCP had mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table. PRNG is not something application developers ever have to program. Most major languages have libraries for it. I know C++ does as I've used it. I'm sure Python has at least one. RNG only produces some number. You would make some code to use it anyway....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Capn'JT Kirk
Starship Enterprise.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 07:23:19 -
[100] - Quote
Ok I get it now.... I did some research and found quite a bit of threads in all caps about drops at something called the WoW forums.
With that said, I am sorry you have not gotten the "drops". From what I read you might want to try a different guild and shard.
Live Long and Prosper
/ Kirk |
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Vabrava
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 03:13:26 -
[101] - Quote
PayMyIskNOW wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above. You must be a carebear full of hate! We all do pvp, probably much better than you do, gank for us in the way we make some isk! And we are spread in eve, low, hs and null pvping, hs is the place we use to make isk, not ony ratting or PI as you probably do. Pathetic!
Your idea of pvp is only to shoot at targets that can't shoot back and if they can, only with overwhelming force. High sec gankers are cowards. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
507
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 06:35:00 -
[102] - Quote
Vabrava wrote:PayMyIskNOW wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Good, you deserve **** all, move to low/null and fight like men.
Unless that's where are, if so ignore the above. You must be a carebear full of hate! We all do pvp, probably much better than you do, gank for us in the way we make some isk! And we are spread in eve, low, hs and null pvping, hs is the place we use to make isk, not ony ratting or PI as you probably do. Pathetic! Your idea of pvp is only to shoot at targets that can't shoot back and if they can, only with overwhelming force. High sec gankers are cowards. It's a game. There is nothing real going on.
So settle down carebear. No one is really getting hurt no matter whether highsec, lowsec or null. Being a 'coward' makes no sense. Everyone is just sitting at a computer no more or less coward than anyone else, because it's all just fictional. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
81
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 08:29:24 -
[103] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:It's a game. There is nothing real going on.
So settle down carebear. No one is really getting hurt no matter whether highsec, lowsec or null. Being a 'coward' makes no sense. Everyone is just sitting at a computer no more or less coward than anyone else, because it's all just fictional. No, it's not. Every peace of ore has a real value as someone spent his RL time to suck it form an astroid. And spent his time on honing the skills required to do so while you focused on fighting. So if you hunt freighters for money you are stealing like in RL.
Please note that I don't include fighting or ganking in low or Null. If you take the risk it's your own choice to risk you goods and ships. It's really telling, that these activities are not in low or Null where everyone who wants to can shoot the offenders at leisure. I'm no carebear but shooting freighters for profit is IMHO cowardice^10. You know that your target can't shoot back and you don't need to risk anything. The ships for ganking pose no real loss. So in the end you are stealing without risk and are calling everyone who labels you robber a carebear. THEY have the balls to risk a 1,5B Isk freighter + cargo with no guns while you risk 20M ISK and whine that life is hard?
Ganking is part of EVE but stop glorifying or making lame excuses that nobody gets hurt! Every single ISK has a RL value payed in RL money or RL time. |
clamslayer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 08:29:58 -
[104] - Quote
Years ago I made billions smart bombing afk ships on gates in Jita before the autopilot mechanic was changed to allow docking to station at the end of a route. I am positive that ccp made a change to what dropped in Jita when a ship was destroyed. Forcing me to move on to trading with the billions I earned smart bombing afkers |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
508
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 10:33:09 -
[105] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:It's a game. There is nothing real going on.
So settle down carebear. No one is really getting hurt no matter whether highsec, lowsec or null. Being a 'coward' makes no sense. Everyone is just sitting at a computer no more or less coward than anyone else, because it's all just fictional. No, it's not. Every peace of ore has a real value as someone spent his RL time to suck it form an astroid. And spent his time on honing the skills required to do so while you focused on fighting. So if you hunt freighters for money you are stealing like in RL. Please note that I don't include fighting or ganking in low or Null. If you take the risk it's your own choice to risk you goods and ships. It's really telling, that these activities are not in low or Null where everyone who wants to can shoot the offenders at leisure. I'm no carebear but shooting freighters for profit is IMHO cowardice^10. You know that your target can't shoot back and you don't need to risk anything. The ships for ganking pose no real loss. So in the end you are stealing without risk and are calling everyone who labels you robber a carebear. THEY have the balls to risk a 1,5B Isk freighter + cargo with no guns while you risk 20M ISK and whine that life is hard? Ganking is part of EVE but stop glorifying or making lame excuses that nobody gets hurt! Every single ISK has a RL value payed in RL money or RL time. I'm not sure if you're serious or joking. I hope joking because that's seriously whacked if you think what you do playing a game has value to you.
Aside from the common sense aspect, direct from the EULA that you, I and everyone else agrees to, 10b.:
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game.
It's just a game and if you truly think you are building value (aside from adding value to the product for CCP), then it's really time to step away from the computer. Our characters are not us. There is nothing of real worth to us being achieved by mining, manufacturing, hauling, pvping, etc. aside from our own entertainment.
If you want to generate value and truly get something of worth, then RL is the place for that. Ganking is no better or worse than any other pursuit in the game and they are all just for fun, nothing more. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
81
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 13:34:17 -
[106] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:No, it's not. Every peace of ore has a real value as someone spent his RL time to suck it form an astroid. And spent his time on honing the skills required to do so... EULA 10b. (we all agreed to this): You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game.N It's just a game and if you truly think you are building value (aside from adding value to the product for CCP) through a"time is money" argument, then it's really time to step away from the computer. If you want to build value for yourself, go do it IRL. The real cowardice is escaping through a video game and substituting entertainment as success. It's all just fiction and means absolutely nothing from a value perspective outside entertainment value. Calling people cowards for playing a video game while also playing that same game is the typical rubbish that we've come to expect from carebears. Your mining has no more or less value than a gankers ganking. It's all just for fun (and hopefully not put above RL priorities for success). Well, how do you call people which risk nothing and prey only on the weak, stupid and helpless? And if the ISK in Eve don't have any real value why is this thread here? If they have no value why do you need loot ingame? You are telling me it has no value so CCP could stop dropping any loot from ganks in high and you wouldn't care? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
508
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 15:28:43 -
[107] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:No, it's not. Every peace of ore has a real value as someone spent his RL time to suck it form an astroid. And spent his time on honing the skills required to do so... EULA 10b. (we all agreed to this): You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game.N It's just a game and if you truly think you are building value (aside from adding value to the product for CCP) through a"time is money" argument, then it's really time to step away from the computer. If you want to build value for yourself, go do it IRL. The real cowardice is escaping through a video game and substituting entertainment as success. It's all just fiction and means absolutely nothing from a value perspective outside entertainment value. Calling people cowards for playing a video game while also playing that same game is the typical rubbish that we've come to expect from carebears. Your mining has no more or less value than a gankers ganking. It's all just for fun (and hopefully not put above RL priorities for success). Well, how do you call people which risk nothing and prey only on the weak, stupid and helpless? And if the ISK in Eve don't have any real value why is this thread here? If they have no value why do you need loot ingame? You are telling me it has no value so CCP could stop dropping any loot from ganks in high and you wouldn't care? No, I'm saying calling anyone a coward because of how they play a game in which items have no value (as we all agreed) is just stupid.
So what do I call people who risk nothing?well if they are playing, then they are just Eve players. No one is risking anything in this game. It isn't real.
Nothing that gets blown up causes any loss to anyone. It's all just fiction. Make believe. Escapism. No animals actually get hurt, not even the Carebears.
No one is any better or any worse in this game because they choose to play one way or another. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
81
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 18:05:28 -
[108] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote: No, I'm saying calling anyone a coward because of how they play a game in which items have no value (as we all agreed) is just stupid.
So what do I call people who risk nothing?well if they are playing, then they are just Eve players. No one is risking anything in this game. It isn't real.
Nothing that gets blown up causes any loss to anyone. It's all just fiction. Make believe. Escapism. No animals actually get hurt, not even the Carebears.
No one is any better or any worse in this game because they choose to play one way or another. So if nobody looses something nobody wins anything so there is no need for loot. So if you don't want to gain anything, why is this thread here and why are you not ganking randomly in Jita? Why are you scanning the ships if you don't want to gain anything? YOU want to earn ISK by blowing up ships! Or else you would just blow up ships in low or Null for fun or sov. This thread is here BECAUSE someone thought he didn't get enough ISK by robbing other players. The gankers, maybe except of Code, want to make ISK and other will loose ISK. One side is whining because they loose ISK and the other don't get enough. The estimation of an ideal value of ISK is the same on both sides. And if you are ganking just for the thrill, why not fight in Null or low where People want to fight and give you a thrilling fight no matter if you win or loose.
You call other people carebear which implies that they can't fight or are afraid to do so. But if someone calls your Profession Cowards it's unfair? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
509
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 18:32:14 -
[109] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: No, I'm saying calling anyone a coward because of how they play a game in which items have no value (as we all agreed) is just stupid.
So what do I call people who risk nothing?well if they are playing, then they are just Eve players. No one is risking anything in this game. It isn't real.
Nothing that gets blown up causes any loss to anyone. It's all just fiction. Make believe. Escapism. No animals actually get hurt, not even the Carebears.
No one is any better or any worse in this game because they choose to play one way or another. So if nobody looses something nobody wins anything so there is no need for loot. So if you don't want to gain anything, why is this thread here and why are you not ganking randomly in Jita? Why are you scanning the ships if you don't want to gain anything? YOU want to earn ISK by blowing up ships! Or else you would just blow up ships in low or Null for fun or sov. This thread is here BECAUSE someone thought he didn't get enough ISK by robbing other players. The gankers, maybe except of Code, want to make ISK and other will loose ISK. One side is whining because they loose ISK and the other don't get enough. The estimation of an ideal value of ISK is the same on both sides. And if you are ganking just for the thrill, why not fight in Null or low where People want to fight and give you a thrilling fight no matter if you win or loose. You call other people carebear which implies that they can't fight or are afraid to do so. But if someone calls your Profession Cowards it's unfair? This i think is going over your head perhaps.
What our characters do in game and how they are able to do it defines the extent of the fiction. Within that, they need ISK.
They are not the same thing as us, the players. We, the players, derive nothing of value outside our own entertainment. Shops, ISK, assets acquired in game (all of which belong to CCP) derive no value for us, only for our fictional, futuristic space people.
If you think anything in this game equates to "robbing other players" then you perhaps need to get a bit more perspective on what is real and what isn't.
Nothing we do as players is real. No one players choice is any better or worse in how they play their characters. As long as those choices are within the rules, all choices are equal, whether that's blowing stuff up or building stuff, etc. It's all just part of the game.
As to my profession, what is it?
Hence, the calling of people cowards is more a reflection that you maybe can't separate real from fiction enough. |
Sinjin Mokk
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
936
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 23:20:56 -
[110] - Quote
So...
People who exploit a game mechanic to "steal" loot are crying that a game mechanic might be "stealing" their loot?
My sides...
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
|
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
79
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 00:37:57 -
[111] - Quote
Even if the loot fairy had it in for us ("us" used loosely, I enable more than I directly participate), it should make little difference.
Content creation for the sake of creating content. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
81
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 06:12:35 -
[112] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote: This i think is going over your head perhaps.
What our characters do in game and how they are able to do it defines the extent of the fiction. Within that, they need ISK.
They are not the same thing as us, the players. We, the players, derive nothing of value outside our own entertainment. Ships, ISK, assets acquired in game (all of which belong to CCP) derive no value for us, only for our fictional, futuristic space people.
If you think anything in this game equates to "robbing other players" then you perhaps need to get a bit more perspective on what is real and what isn't.
You are mixing real value with idealistic value. Real value is zero: right. Idealistic value is not. Why do 250B fight get headlines but T1 frig kills not? Does a Titan have more idealistic value then a slasher? Sure! You are playing this game because you have an emotional tie with it. And with your char, his development and his ISK. You would write a ticket if you loose everything because of a bug, why: its only fictional. You are blowing up ships to get ISK so you put a value on the ISK or else you wouldn't spend your gametime on it. But you deny that these ISK have the same value for the people that loose it. They loose the send gametime and the revenues from it that they want to spend on developing their toon. So these ISK have an idealistic value for them.
My wedding ring is made out of stainless steel: RL value less then 5cent. Idealistic value is much higher. And that's exactly the point with real and idealistic value of ISK.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
516
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 12:39:53 -
[113] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: This i think is going over your head perhaps.
What our characters do in game and how they are able to do it defines the extent of the fiction. Within that, they need ISK.
They are not the same thing as us, the players. We, the players, derive nothing of value outside our own entertainment. Ships, ISK, assets acquired in game (all of which belong to CCP) derive no value for us, only for our fictional, futuristic space people.
If you think anything in this game equates to "robbing other players" then you perhaps need to get a bit more perspective on what is real and what isn't.
You are mixing real value with idealistic value. Real value is zero: right. Idealistic value is not. Why do 250B fights get headlines but T1 frig kills doesn't? Does a Titan have more idealistic value then a slasher? Sure! You are playing this game because you have an emotional tie with it. And with your char, his development and his ISK. You would write a ticket if you loose everything because of a bug, why: its only fictional. You are blowing up ships to get ISK so you put a value on the ISK or else you wouldn't spend your gametime on it. But you deny that these ISK have the same value for the people that loose it. They loose the spend gametime and the revenues from it that they want to spend on developing their toon. So these ISK have an idealistic value for them. My wedding ring is made out of stainless steel: RL value less then 5cent. Idealistic value is much higher. And that's exactly the point with real and idealistic value of ISK. Yeah. People get way too attached to database entries on a server in the UK and to the textures that they are represented through on their screen.
No, I wouldn't submit a ticket if I lost everything. I could care less, just as it should be, because calling people cowards because they choose to play the game different to your Carebear ways is where the issue comes in. You are way too attached to the fiction, thinking you are somehow achieving something of value. Outside your entertainment, you aren't.
As to me, I don't gank. Not my play style in the slightest. I'm not going to go judge people who do though, based on some belief that I'm somehow attached to in game assets. They mean nothing; and the choice of other players to play how they want is perfectly valid, just as I expect my choice in how to play is valid. I can hardly think my playstyle is somehow holier than thou. As long as everyone is playing within the rules, then the playstyle of gankers is just as valid as that of miners. Neither is a coward for choosing to play how they do.
People who choose not to shoot in highsec certainly aren't "weak, stupid and helpless" that you claimed earlier. What they do is no less valid either.
That interaction happens is at the heart of this game and players aren't just because they interact one way, any more than they are another way.
All the rest of your views I have no issue with, just the going and calling other players cowards because you are overly attached to the items that form your entertainment. That's an issue with your perspective, not the gankers. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12360
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 12:50:50 -
[114] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote: I could care less.
So you do care?
Enquiring minds want to know!
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
516
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 13:32:16 -
[115] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: I could care less. So you do care? Enquiring minds want to know! English sux, what can I say. We have the weirdest sayings that mean the opposite of their literal meaning.
The sooner Esperanto takes over, the better..... |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12360
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 13:36:18 -
[116] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: I could care less. So you do care? Enquiring minds want to know! English sux, what can I say. We have the weirdest sayings that mean the opposite of their literal meaning. The sooner Esperanto takes over, the better.....
I agree with the Esperanto thing (I'm an English Language teacher, Lord help me if I don't know about English's foibles!) - but I was gently poking fun at your interesting usage of the phrase "I couldn't care less"
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
516
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 13:50:41 -
[117] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: I could care less. So you do care? Enquiring minds want to know! English sux, what can I say. We have the weirdest sayings that mean the opposite of their literal meaning. The sooner Esperanto takes over, the better..... I agree with the Esperanto thing (I'm an English Language teacher, Lord help me if I don't know about English's foibles!) - but I was gently poking fun at your interesting usage of the phrase "I couldn't care less" Yes, I u der stood the gentle jibe. All good. Where I come from we say it with could, but it means the same.
There's probably an implied 'Like' in there, as in "Like, I could care less", but rarely used. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
331
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 23:19:53 -
[118] - Quote
Please train Fairy Connections and Scrapmetal Harvesting to level V. |
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