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Deious Troeyd
Minmatar
Kalear Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.02.28 13:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Deious Troeyd on 28/02/2007 13:15:18
I have read a lot of talk about how great the Rokh is in either blaster or rail configuration, and alot about how awful the Maelstrom is, so that got me thinking to run a few numbers to defend the honor of Minmatar  .
Here is what I came up with doing a direct comparison between the two for close-range-gun-long-range-ammo setups.
Assuming maxed skills.
(I ignore all the skills that affect the DPS value equally as it is a relative value I am after.)
Rokh
[High]
8x Neutron Blaster II [Null]
[Mid]
1x Boost Amp II
1x XL Shield Boost II
4x Whatever
[Low]
5x w/e
Optimal/Falloff 20.25/12.5km
31.98 Damage mod per minute per gun.
Boosting 816 Shield (before resists)
Effective Shield 13281
Remaining
Grid: 1322.9
Cpu: 324
Maelstrom
[High]
8x 800mm II [Barrage]
[Mid]
1x Invul II
1x XL Shield Boost
4x w/e
[Low]
5x w/e
Optimal/Falloff 6/30km
32.8 Damage mod per minute per gun.
Boosting 825 shield before resists.
Effective Shield 13000
Remaining
Grid: 9996.5
Cpu: 279
Damage advantage (ignoring tracking):
10km ~Even
17.5km ~10% advantage Rokh
22.5km ~17% advantage Rokh
27.5km ~10% advantage Rokh
30km ~Even
35km ~40% advantage Maelstrom
At this point Maelstrom is just about to dip under 50% damage.
So it appears the Rokh can push out more damage at the expense of range and cap use but the Maelstrom has a slightly stronger tank. The Maelstrom also has a larger drone bay at 100m3 vs 50m3.
The Maelstrom still has a boatload of grid to play with, but the Rokh has more CPU.
So, considering all of that, does the Maelstrom beat the Blaster Rokh at its own role? I have no idea how to fit these ships out, but it would be nice to see the Maelstrom at least good for something 
Note: Damage mod per minute per gun ignore all damage boosting skills, except for ship bonus.
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.28 13:31:00 -
[2]
The maelstrom effectively gets a better bonus (7.5% per level to boost a mount versus 5% per level resistance), but keep in mind that resisances work regardless of your cap, so it's about even after all.
Maelstrom isn't half as awful as some people say. It doesn't need an SBA to perform at the same boost/sec rate of the Rokh thus saving a slot for tracking CPU or tackle mod.
Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety) |
Vathar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.28 13:36:00 -
[3]
numbers crunching aren't enough, and also one detail about neglecting a damage bonus since it affects both ships equally isn't a good idea, since it's a bit more complicated.
absolute dps is an interesting indicator, but what matters when you pit two ships together is leaked dps vs the opponent's tank.
a few stupid examples to make my point clear:
ship A deals 100 dps, tanks 300 dps has 1000hp
ship B deals 300 dps, tanks 90 dps has 1000hp
you didn't count an extra damage from skills, all things being equal...
Ship A leaks 10 dps to ship B and will eventually win because ship B can't break ship A's tank
Now factor in a 25% dps bonus through skills:
Ship A now deals 125 dps = 35 dps leaked
Ship B now deals 375 dps = 75 dps leaked
Now ship B wins ...
This does not take into account speed cap and many other factors
Oh, well, now I'm crunching numbers to explain why number crunching is not that useful when comparing ships :(
/me slaps himself
 Originally by: Radeberger
If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts
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Lemming Zealot
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Posted - 2007.02.28 13:38:00 -
[4]
Throw three falloff rigs on the Mael and watch it's falloff w. barrage jump to 45km while still having powergrid to spare.
Also, don't forget that the Maelstrom has twice the dronebay of the Rokh, thats an easy 100dps extra over the Rokh if you go for 4x heavies.
The main complaint people have with the Maelstrom is that the ships stats are setup like a fleet sniper, but the shield boost bonus is something only useful for a short range ship, which the Mael supposedly does poorly due to its lack of mobility.
However, with falloff rigs you effectivly get rid of the need for mobility. Just fly it like a pulse-geddon that can tank.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.28 14:17:00 -
[5]
Maelstorm is pretty nasty banging away with 8x autocannons and 100m3 of drones. The rokh's poor handeling makes the blaster setups not so great. I feel much better fitting 8x 425 railguns and just chucking AM L out to 90km range. Then again I'm speced in both caldari and gallente ships/weapons so if I want a blaster armed BS I would just grab a megathron or hyperion.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 14:20:00 -
[6]
Everyone would consider the Maels a great AC boat if it wasn't for it being so heavy and slow. If it moved 10 ms more and was a bit more agile would be excelent AC boat. As for now its a good AC boat, but only when you can warp directly upon your enemy.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Master OlavPancrazio
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.02.28 14:42:00 -
[7]
Then realize how awful 800mm tracking is and just orbit the maelstrom at under 10k since it has no tackling gear.
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Kurieg
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.02.28 14:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio
Then realize how awful 800mm tracking is and just orbit the maelstrom at under 10k since it has no tackling gear.
Because 4x w/e mid slots couldn't possibly have a webber?
:|
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 15:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio
Then realize how awful 800mm tracking is and just orbit the maelstrom at under 10k since it has no tackling gear.
then realise how stupid is to suppose every fight will be 1v1.... or that the enemy has such huge signature that is VERY EASY to hit it even with 800mm AC.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Deious Troeyd
Minmatar
Kalear Fleet Systems
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Posted - 2007.02.28 22:33:00 -
[10]
The reason I didnt calculate absolute damage for each ships is because I wasn't comparing them in a 1v1 fight, but rather comparing their effectiveness at a similar role as the range/speed/tank is quite similar on both ships. Tracking for Neutrons and 800mm is almost identical.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.28 23:43:00 -
[11]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 28/02/2007 23:39:24
double post
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.28 23:43:00 -
[12]
In my experience the 75-90% resistance Rokh tends to win most 1v1's even with rails fitted. It outanks pretty much any battleship if its well fitted. You can even spare a mid for a scrambler but you could be buggered against an automael without a web I guess (it'll run away).
The Abaddon may give the Rokh a run for its money though. The 25% to resists bonus is still more useful than the shield booster bonus even in a 1v1 imo.
You could evewn go with 4 torps and 4 nos, his tank will fail sometime before the Rokhs I reckon.
Having said its down to the setup, the majority of the time my money would be on the resist Rokh though, it laughs at Tempest damage.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.01 10:29:00 -
[13]
Yes, but a well tanked tempest and any non pathetic maelstrom will also laugh at Rokh damage. A Rohk vs Mael will 90% of time end with oth pilots tired of nothing happening.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
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