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Post Patch Eve and the future for Small/Medium Sized corps

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Celticjim	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Celticjim on 17/12/2003 18:44:29 Hi all This is not a love/hate post, but I have been trying to figure out where our corp will carve out their niche in the future. I believe the devs had the vision we see before us now as the way the game should be played out. However, just trying to figure out how to coordinate esources/blueprints/miners/manufacturing/new items/research requirements/npc killing/pvp actions/agent missions/refining requirments/setting up relationships with other corps is just mind boggling. I and others are left to figure out how we will take on these changes. Again, I actually like the patch, but specifically how are the freelancers,small and medium corps going to cope with these changes? I am not looking for yay or nay answers, but specifically, how are you creating the design your own corp will start to take given these changes from this patch? I personally think unless you are a megacorp, there is little, if any ability to take on all of these changes by yourself, and it's time to dust of the old sales textbooks and start relationship building with other corporations and people. Any thoughts, strategies, or opinions appreciated. For us, we plan on watching the market, keep an ear peeled on the mining and agent missions, and see how the rest unfolds within the next week. From there, it's up to a group of people to determine the next step. Thanks all to those who respond. Cheers CJ (edit) grammar, spelling mistakes
Arima Todai	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:49:00 - [2] I think you said it yourself. Most corps, unless you have the people that can fill the various roles required for this new way of playing the game, will be forced to play the waiting game. I for one love this patch. However, being in a corporation with mostly euro players, I have lots of time to myself and I no longer will be able to do anything besides agent mission even larger problem for freelancers. I myslef considered posting something on the same idea, is this the death of those tiny 3 or 4 person corps, and is the solo player getting lost in this shuffle? Its going to be a bit like real life though, the rich will keep getting richer. Its unfortunate, the last time I checked this was a game.. ____________________________
Relic	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:49:00 - [3] One fun issue, is that people are reporting that it costs more in missiles to defend a mining team, than the team can mine in any given peirod. If true that has major issues in terms of getting access to Zyd and Meg to build the missiles and ships needed to fight
Denathis Arabar	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:50:00 - [4] erm what about the bounty you get for shooting the ships? are you using gold plated missiles...
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:53:00 - [5] Small corps need obviously to be more specialized than the larger corps. I don't see this patch as the end of the road for small corps but they do need to be online on the same time. Maybe it is a viable option for smaller corps to ally with other smaller corps. I'm pretty sure that if there is no hope for small corps than ccp will do something to remedy the situation. So basically give it a shot and be creative. If it is completely hopeless than complain on the forums and others will join in and ccp will listen __________ Capacitor research
Relic	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:54:00 - [6] The cost of the missiles is not the problem. If you use 1000 Meg in making the missiles, but can only mine 800 Meg, the game will run out of Meg. Also 0.0 players are fighting the same pirates factions as their local stations, so the refine costs are massive. One report is that some players are now being hit with a 50% refine fee.
Celticjim	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:55:00 - [7] I am not really too concerned with the real life aspect...this is truly a unique playing atmosphere, with some now real and evident challenges to overcome. I love challenges. However, what I am more curious about, is how people are formulating strategies, and if and how they decided to go in their specific niche. IE - Miners - focus on all mining/refining skills. Sell to manufacturing firm. However, if you were never a miner corp before, what are you doing to overcome this fact? Personally, again..love the patch. Seeing some of those npc spawns last nite I was awestruck. I just about lost my tempest the first 15 mins after server went up. Mental note...no more npcing in 0.0 by myself. All posts appreciated CJ
Old Hermit	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:56:00 - [8] I think you are quite right but then we built our corporation around specializing long ago. It doesn't mean that we don't have to worry though. We still need to figure out where we are in the scheme of things. The only problem I see with megacorps is that they have their fingers in every possible pie so that little guys, like us for instance, usually get pushed out, after a fashion, instead of approached. I'd love nothing more than to be a lower tier supplier/vendor with many corporations. But everyone wants to keep everything solely within themselves and thus it doesn't happen... at all. How to adjust... I simply don't know. There is not enoug players to have a completely 100% Player Driven economy. Plain and simple. Trade-runners are taking a particular beating. Supplying trade items for Tech II production sounds good, in theory, but until there is significant levels of Tech II production... who is there to supply? Too many changes, too fast. Great changes, Awesome changes. But far reaching and wide in scope. For us little guys.... we just don't have the man power, thining power, or the accumulated resources for much of what is going on. So the gap between those who have and those who are still trying to do has increased.... in size and distance factoring. Oh well.... Is that server back up yet dammit! I want to struggle futilely against my fate. (If I was younger I might've said "rail" but... ) Click To Submit News
JP Beauregard	Posted - 2003.12.17 19:03:00 - [9] Edited by: JP Beauregard on 17/12/2003 19:06:03 The time for much more active "networking" (God, how I hate that word) is definitely upon us. We are a small corp, and we always liked it that way. Everyone knows everyone else, people get along and things get done without anyone having to ask twice. But I doubt we'll get anywhere on our own from here on in. There are basically three things on my agenda for January, because over the holidays I have better things to do than push pixels while the devs clean up after themselves: 1. Reestablish the corporation's focus on building specific items in specific markets and market them in a specific way (Sorry, I won't be any more specific...). We've spread out a bit too much for my tastes just to stay afloat in a contracting market but chances are that our original plans are going to pan out now at last. I always wanted us to carve out a niche, and stick to that niche if only to have a well-defined corporate identity. 2. Coordinating agent missions and research efforts. I don't expect to get the things we want/need any time soon but we'll keep trying and we've done a lot of work to prepare for the Castor changes. 3. Network sigh with corps even smaller than the mighty Farts :-) I'm not entirely convinced that the small corps are in any immediate danger, though. Most of us are after all fairly casual about our businesses. The decent to mid-size corps may feel the crunch much more accutely. JP Beauregard === The Pilkington Guides to EVE ===
Celticjim	Posted - 2003.12.17 19:07:00 - [10] Add one to your networking list Beau...you've been added to mine Cheers CJ
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2003.12.17 19:08:00 - [11] We finally have a good degree of specialization that can take place in the game. To stay ahead corps will have to realize that they can't do everything that they used to do without adding more people. Our corp is taking steps to coordinate members efforts to acquire items and skills. This means that people will have more defined roles that only they can perform. It will benefit smaller corporations and freelancers to stick to fewer goals. That doesnt mean small corps can't do big things, but it does mean that they will have to do fewer big things. This does eliminate the oversaturation of producers and allows the specialized producers to flourish. It's all about finding your niche as a player and a corp. You're right in saying that corps will need to foster relationships with other small corps that are specializing in the things that you are not working with. It can be mind-boggling but it also means that your corporate relationship is about more than just the price of the product. Many times I find that the hassle over the price is not worth the deal. You may need to pay more sometimes to find the products to meet your needs and you need to find someone who is consistent in meeting your needs. In our corps case, we will be able to help out with mineral contracts and they like. If you need to establish a relationship with this in mind contact us and we may be able to help you out. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Celticjim	Posted - 2003.12.17 19:12:00 - [12] I probably should add my own specifics as well 1. Make certain the patch is stable. Not a knock to CCP at all, but the first week will always be the roughest 2. Long range goal has been set. 3. Let the chips fall for a bit, and set some very specific short term goals. 4. Start working towards the short term goals. 5. Recognize the fact that we can't do it all at this point, and try to do some cost/bene analysis of the things we may do or not do. 6. Identify corps we would like to work with in the future. 7. Continue to have fun. That's it from us...that's our plan for the time Cheers CJ
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2003.12.17 19:19:00 - [13] It certainly is good to hear that small corps yelling something about the end of the world (well at least EVE). Networking is the key and yes networking seems to be the new buzzword in EVE __________ Capacitor research
Lucio	Posted - 2003.12.17 19:20:00 - [14] I think the small and mid-sized corps in Eve will start running into problems IF they try and do what the big corps are doing. By the looks of things, without major support (20+ players) mining in 0.0 space is out of the question unless you're willing to start using throw-away mining vessels. What I think the smaller corps should be doing is settling into the ~0.5 space in-between and start selling items and ores to the megacorps stationed out in 0.0 space. Then the newbies and tiny corps can settle into Empire space and start shiping the cheapest goods outwards. ********************************************* Elder of Building, Mining & W.E.N.T.B.D. *********************************************
Noriko Sakai	Posted - 2003.12.17 19:32:00 - [15] Well, We are so screwed it's not even funny. We aree a small corp with at most 6 player online at any given time. We can't even go mine for stuff now unless we can work with another corp. Out only saving grace is that a few of our member have been working hard on agent missions so maybe we'll see some of those tech II BPs one of this days. Other then that, we'll be living off our BS BP investment with Big (we have 5 shares total in varies lvl 2 BS) so even with the lower BPC price on trade, we should still generate 30-40 Mil a week but that will not even be enough to keep all our BS insured. So I don't really know where we will go from here (not to mention that we may lose a few player due to the patch).
Celticjim	Posted - 2003.12.18 06:39:00 - [16] just want to give a bump to see if there are any other suggestions out there CJ
Booky	Posted - 2003.12.18 06:56:00 - [17] Well I am the CEO of a small corp. We lost 1 of our 2 battleships (mine ) and I really think that we are finished in EVE. My friends hardly ever play anymore and when they log on to see my Raven is gone, and they try to play the way we used to I think they will cancle. They are already close to cancleing. Hell, If CCP is serious about not reimbursing everyone for a KNOW problem with way too many rats spawning 1km from you in a belt, then I may cancle as well. This is no longer a small corp, or a solo bounty hunter, game. I do believe that being a solo player was a good option but now it may mean retirement. EVE just isn't fun this way. Im sure you all will continue to ahve fun though, as I will have my fun in Aces High, or WWIIOnline. Just depends on CCP and how they react to this problem. Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post.
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2003.12.18 07:00:00 - [18] I remember seeing at least three warnings the first days after the patch might be a little bumby and asking people to be careful. __________ Capacitor research
Crypt	Posted - 2003.12.18 07:10:00 - [19] Edited by: Crypt on 18/12/2003 07:12:00 Edited by: Crypt on 18/12/2003 07:11:14 Warnings and being careful can't replace what was taken away overnight. For us there is no recovery and we aren't willing to make the effort so it can all be nullified when Tech 3 comes around and we get beat down with the nerf bat again. Too much work and not enough enjoyment. Good luck to ya'll. No need for flames Crypt. -Jehova
Amaraya Silaatt	Posted - 2003.12.18 08:24:00 - [20] We are a small corp, and I don't think this screws us at all. Its just going to make is more difficult for us to survive in a harsh environment - which is exactly what Eve is all about. We are specialised already, but we're going to have to be even more so now. We're going to have to specialise down to the individual level, and that's no bad thing, is it? If this was a RL scenario, would you prefer to have a bunch of wasters backing you up, or a bunch of professionals?
Kunming	Posted - 2003.12.18 08:36:00 - [21] Quote: I personally think unless you are a megacorp, there is little, if any ability to take on all of these changes by yourself, and it's time to dust of the old sales textbooks and start relationship building with other corporations and people. Thats exactly what I have been doing since I bought the game. But its not that easy and also very triky since u dont know if u can trust a person in the first place. If u meet new ppl try doing joint missions (like mine/haul, NPC farming/loot collecting, etc.); after that if u think that person or corp is trustworthy then u can go one step up in your relationship and so on. At least this is the big picture of what I've been doing and it seems to work fine. Sadly in EVE until the opposite is noone is trustwothy, Intercepting since BETA
Kunming	Posted - 2003.12.18 08:37:00 - [22] Edited by: Kunming on 18/12/2003 08:37:50 Double post, sorry. Intercepting since BETA
Phoibos	Posted - 2003.12.18 09:24:00 - [23] It would be nice if we could use say smaller corps as suppliers etc. But the problem is usually that there simply is too much management work for it to happen. We are 80 in corp often 10-25 in corp chat. It's quite some work to organize things to do together and could be quite a nightmare to also try to take in other corps that also aren't in corp channel etc. Generally I recommend those wanting to work with us to actually join us. Since it does make Dreaming easier. :) Generally I think you guys will be fine. /Phoibos www.fusion-wave.com
Celticjim	Posted - 2003.12.18 15:19:00 - [24] Well..seems as though everyone that is sticking it through is going to be doing the same we do. The TRUST factor is huge as our corp has been burned before, and we are all a little anxious about forging new relationships...however, these are the mechanics of EVE, and time to adapt Cheers CJ
toaster	Posted - 2003.12.18 16:52:00 - [25] Quote: We finally have a good degree of specialization that can take place in the game. I can see this being true. Getting tougher to be the jack-of-all-trades like many smaller corps like ours used to be. In our case, my corp guys like to hunt and fight but need money for ships and insurance and whatnot so this is sortof a losing battle for us. We will need to 'network' (I hate that word too) with miner/trader corps and start specializing in something ourselves. Maybe 'security'? ------------------------------------------------
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.18 17:07:00 - [26] Edited by: Jash Illian on 18/12/2003 17:08:59 Hell will freeze and Satan will move to the Death Valley before I train Deep Core Mining. Mining 3 and Astrogeology 0 right now. And I'm not going one step further. So will I be Mercowhatever poor and unable to produce TL2? Nope. I'll buy it. I might lease out my battleships and gunnery skills for mining coverage and a share (though that's inordinately risky because hard headed miners usually lead to me getting shot up). I might require you to bring your own minerals + 5% for the TL2 products I can manufacture. I might go out to where the alliances are hunting and offer to refine for them, since my faction with their unwilling 'hosts' isn't pooched through killing the bellhops. In short, I don't know what I'll do but I won't throw my hands up and declare all is hopeless. If I want something, I'll find a way to get it. That simple. Now where's my frellin Shield Piercing, Armor Piercing and advanced gunnery skills dammit! I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
LiverpoolFC	Posted - 2003.12.18 17:32:00 - [27] I am in a very small corp of 3 players and at this stage I am not sure what to do and what direction the corp is heading. One of the players is not happy with the patch and could well leave. Before the patch I was able to make indys/missiles and sell them to make a reasonable living as well as selling excess ore. I was able to buy mega and zyd off the market. The cost of Mega and Zyd went up a lot last week and I fear it will only go up more. I have spent lots of time and effort training refine, mining and manufacturing skills at the expense of combat skills. Due to the release of the new skills I suspect all my costs will increase as I am unable to refine as well as before and build as cheaply as before. I have now taken all my products of the market until things even out. I have invested more cash in the new skills and guess I will start doing agent missions whilst i build these skills up. I do fear for the future of our small corp and I hope the Devs listen to the concerns of many players. If the future lies in joining a Mega corp then sadly my future lies away from Eve. However the patch has been in but a few days and I guess its like playing a new game and I will attempt to adapt and move on. But Dev's please give the small corps some loving in the next patch.
Jericho	Posted - 2003.12.18 17:34:00 - [28] Hey CJ, didn't you guys merge with another medium size corp? I may have heard wrong.
Errol Dinn	Posted - 2003.12.18 18:25:00 - [29] I'm a very casual player, typically only play on the weekends. As such I haven't logged in except to change skills since the patch. Reading everything here on the forums sounds like the deathknell of my EVE gaming experience. I could be wrong but somehow I doubt it as I had been making my money mining kernite in .5 systems. With what I'm expecting to see when I get out into the belts now I don't think that is going to happen. Hmm, maybe time to join the dark side.
Ukiah	Posted - 2003.12.18 18:53:00 - [30] Very very interesting thread, CelticJim. Perfectly worded to avoid the 'YOU'RE JUST WHINING, CAREBEAR!' crowd, thoughtful enough to avoid the 'PLAY THE GAME AND FIGURE IT OUT, MORON!' crowd. As for me and my corp, I simply don't know. My corp was already in decline before the patch. I'd secretly hoped that Castor would bring some of them back, but it hasn't happened so far. I liked Jash's reply, which is probably what I'll do if I stick with the game. I'll find SOMETHING to do. There are a few megacorps out there whom I've had personal dealings with who seem to be real good people. I might join them. One in particular has caught my attention repeatedly with a well organized website and management team. They have specific jobs/roles within their corp and a couple of them sound very interesting. I'm still reeling from the sheer amount of changes and how MUCH things have changed in Castor. Perhaps after the holidays, when I've had a break, I can assess where my corp is, where I want to be and where others are and make a change then. Good post tho, should spur some good discussion...

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