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Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.02 10:51:00 - [31] Nevermind that you can see within 10 seconds if someone is probing you... Longterm CCP will have to rethink it's deadspace probing mechanics, though, at least if they do as they say and move most PvE content into exploration zones. Those are deadspace as well and like missions very hard to probe (and impossible to get a jump if your target has half a brain). That would limit PvP essentially to gates.
Natasha Kerensky The Company Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:20:00 - [32] Edited by: Natasha Kerensky on 02/03/2007 11:18:14 IBTL Persective from a Libra: You have about a 1 in 100 chance of probing down a mission runner right? Youre upset becuase its going to take alot time isk and effort to find him. Once you find him youre going to jump on top of him while he's taking damage from a fleet of faction NPC, you have the upper hand, the kill is yours. You're going to loot all the uber expensive faction gear from his wreck. Well think about how mcuch time isk and effort the mission runner put in to work up all the way to a high quality lvl 4 agent, not to mention all the effort put in to earn enough isk to afford those uber faction mods. I think the current system is well balanced
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 13:34:00 - [33] Reasons for probing mission runners? Profit. As a runner I damn well know how profitable that can possibly be. Is it lame? Hell yeah. But that is part of EVE, especially in lowsec. You can always run in highsec if you don't like it. (At least for now...) Probing a mission runner is not that hard if you work in a hub, are dedicated enough and have half a brain. You just have to create a nice network of overlapping probes (this is where the half-brain part comes in). You might have to do a few missions yourself for this to get some additional warpable spots in system, but thats really no hindrance for a dedicated pirate. Then you drop the proper probe at the proper spots (I actually use a mix of 5, 10 and 20 AU probes, you do not need exploration probes) and scan away. With good skills and rigs it will only take you 30 or less secs for one scan cyle. And unless the mission runner is not in your web of overlapping probes (sometimes missions are very far out), you will eventually find him. And if not, you will likely find one of his fellows. And even if you only get the faintest of results, it does not matter, you have him since the deadspace is larger than your scan deviation and thus you will always land on the gate. As for drones being easy to scan, it is not a bug, it is bad game mechanics since sig radius/sensor strength is part of your 'scan signature', and drones have higher ratios there than battleships for some reason. So even if they get the deadspace protection, they are still easier to find than the player ship. Last I probed I still had plenty of drones as results. Basically probing is not nearly as hard as the perpetrators want to make you believe. It does require some preparation and a little luck, and is nothing that a pirate changing systems as fast as his corporations will be very sucessful in. But doing it in the system you live in is easy enough and probably very profitable until the mission runners just leave. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Tommy Vercetti A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:02:00 - [34] Edited by: Tommy Vercetti on 02/03/2007 13:58:20 Originally by: Katarina Hetiako you want real PvP go fight people who can fight back! Why? Do you do missions and kill npcs to increase the risk to your CNR for a challenge, or to make ISK? Originally by: Pestillence It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:42:00 - [35] Dear God @ all the carebears getting annoyed people kill them. This is kinda the point of eve. There are nice safe places where you can play, then there are other areas where nasty people will shoot you. I hope this has enlightened many of you. sgb
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.02 19:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Natasha Kerensky Edited by: Natasha Kerensky on 02/03/2007 11:18:14 IBTL Persective from a Libra: You have about a 1 in 100 chance of probing down a mission runner right? Youre upset becuase its going to take alot time isk and effort to find him. If the effort where fun in any way I don't think people would mind so much. But currently probing for mission runners is more tedious and boring than mining veldspar in high sec (no offence Chribba :) ). Click scan, cloak, wait 30 sec, uncloak, click new scan, scan, cloak, wait 30 sec, repeat 10 times, launch new probe. Start again. Continue for a few hours with no result. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.02 23:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Basically probing is not nearly as hard as the perpetrators want to make you believe. With extensive preperation no. But neither is avoiding getting probed. Or better: noticing that someone is probing and doing countermeasures (dropping a can at accel gate warping points, moving 30-40k away from them after warpin, staying alligned to an object in case you have to do an emergancy warp). Sure, it takes some effort, but so does probing someone in a deadspace complex.
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 23:37:00 - [38] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Natasha Kerensky Edited by: Natasha Kerensky on 02/03/2007 11:18:14 IBTL Persective from a Libra: You have about a 1 in 100 chance of probing down a mission runner right? Youre upset becuase its going to take alot time isk and effort to find him. If the effort where fun in any way I don't think people would mind so much. But currently probing for mission runners is more tedious and boring than mining veldspar in high sec (no offence Chribba :) ). Click scan, cloak, wait 30 sec, uncloak, click new scan, scan, cloak, wait 30 sec, repeat 10 times, launch new probe. Start again. Continue for a few hours with no result. Well a certain pirate corp in a certain former home system of mine had no problem probing us runners quite regularly even at pretty remote mission spots. Of course that doesn't work with one probe, but cover the system well and voila... --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.03 00:16:00 - [39] Mission running is completely safe. It's impossible for mission runners to be probed out using any sort of probe type. Please continue your mission running. That is all. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place!
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.03 01:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well a certain pirate corp in a certain former home system of mine had no problem probing us runners quite regularly even at pretty remote mission spots. Of course that doesn't work with one probe, but cover the system well and voila... Was it because it was a hub and they were just using the blanket approach? Or were they able to target specific people easily? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.03 02:02:00 - [41] Edited by: Callistus on 03/03/2007 02:00:51 Originally by: Tommy Vercetti Originally by: Katarina Hetiako you want real PvP go fight people who can fight back! Why? Do you do missions and kill npcs to increase the risk to your CNR for a challenge, or to make ISK? Thats the best response to that argument I've seen in ages -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Benglada Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.03 02:04:00 - [42] Isk> "A challenge" --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.03 02:34:00 - [43] Probing out missionrunners is more important for pirates now with the warp to zero. I dont condemn pirates, but people should never presume it to be a challenge to gank some missionrunner regardless of the ship he is in. If you fit to kill missionrunners, they are without chance simple as that! PVP setup differ greatly from missionrunning ones, that is EVEs problem! as long as it is like that a missionrunner is dead to gank every single time, if the pirate has got any brain! I dont really carebear anymore, though I know and reckognize it to be an important part of EVE. I dont mind people wanting to be left alone in empire making isk and flying shiny expensive ships, Eve is all the more richer for it! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.03 04:36:00 - [44] Scanning is purely chance based. Success depends on three things: 1. Train as many skills as you can 2. Launch as many probes as you can 3. Hit scan as many times as you can That's it. Regarding the barely on-topic reasons for probing mission runners, there are several. Ransoms/loot for isk. Everyone needs isk, and this is a way to get it, just like running missions or mining crokite. We have several mission runners who pay us regular installments to save them the hassle of being held up mid-mission. Roleplay reasons. I will not ransom anyone in a Guristas-targetted mission for example (or if I do it will be very expensive). As for the cries of easy ganks, just how much of a challenge is turning on your tank, targetting, and launching missiles/drones? I wouldn't warp into a group of 10 player BS in a lone BS. Well, I would, and have, but I certainly wouldn't expect to survive. As cliched as it is, bring friends. The changes to the mission system coming up in the future promote gang work. Jump the gun, do it now. When we went on our little excursion to Placid there were groups of up to half a dozen pilots in a single mission, which does two things : reduces the time in mission significantly (reducing chance of probing) and increases risk for us significantly (while a couple of cruisers can drop an aggro'd raven, 4 or 5 BS is another story entirely). Please, don't complain about pirates getting "easy kills" when mission runners kill scores of BS at once and never drop below 50% shields. Especially don't complain when half of the "problems" described by mission runners in this thread are easily solved with 2 minutes of thought. _____________________________________________
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.03 05:13:00 - [45] Originally by: SN3263827 Scanning is purely chance based. Success depends on three things: 1. Train as many skills as you can 2. Launch as many probes as you can 3. Hit scan as many times as you can That's it. Regarding the barely on-topic reasons for probing mission runners, there are several. Ransoms/loot for isk. Everyone needs isk, and this is a way to get it, just like running missions or mining crokite. We have several mission runners who pay us regular installments to save them the hassle of being held up mid-mission. Roleplay reasons. I will not ransom anyone in a Guristas-targetted mission for example (or if I do it will be very expensive). As for the cries of easy ganks, just how much of a challenge is turning on your tank, targetting, and launching missiles/drones? I wouldn't warp into a group of 10 player BS in a lone BS. Well, I would, and have, but I certainly wouldn't expect to survive. As cliched as it is, bring friends. The changes to the mission system coming up in the future promote gang work. Jump the gun, do it now. When we went on our little excursion to Placid there were groups of up to half a dozen pilots in a single mission, which does two things : reduces the time in mission significantly (reducing chance of probing) and increases risk for us significantly (while a couple of cruisers can drop an aggro'd raven, 4 or 5 BS is another story entirely). Please, don't complain about pirates getting "easy kills" when mission runners kill scores of BS at once and never drop below 50% shields. Especially don't complain when half of the "problems" described by mission runners in this thread are easily solved with 2 minutes of thought. Well lets say i was doing missions for agent in oimmo 0.5, like 10/a day, 8 of them was either to 0.4 or 0.3 . Now tell me how good is chance there are pirates in those 2 systems? i would say 20% at least from my own expensive experience. Comparing NPC BS vs player BS is prety lame, 8 NPC BS i am able tank for more then hour, 2 player BS for less then 2 minutes if i am PVE and they are PVP fited. I would say it makes quite diference in those BS. And i didnt saw single cruiser when you guys found me few times, allways that was more then one ship and usualy all BS or BC. And btw your kilboards. why is in my lill walue 60m when i lost about to 200 ? Anyway GL in oimmo mission hub. I moved to safer 0.5 system with no lowsec missions and if we meet there again it will be either with fleet or something much bigger then was BC. And with litle luck CCP will make Gate/station camps litle harder as well.
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.03 05:54:00 - [46] The thing with killing them for profit is entirely valid. PvPers and pirates have to make ISK to support their habit, and other players' ships are very good sources for that. For instance, if you're low on ISK and down to your last two ships, are you going to risk attacking a ship that stands a good chance of beating you when you're trying to get T2 loot to sell, or are you going to go for what you can reliably kill? -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Prant	Posted - 2007.03.03 11:03:00 - [47] Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Ratey Originally by: Gallente Citizen 1356 Id just like the opportunity to scan down and find all those littered wrecks mission runners leave. Sure, but as soon as the mission owner reports to the agent, the wrecks will disappear. no, the wrecks still stay there, but theres a bug where the wrecks will not drop any salvage at all once the mission is turned in. Discovered this by accident when my salvaging alt was getting plenty of salvage before I turned in a mission, but out of probably 40 wrecks he salvaged after I completed the mission, he got the "you successfully salvaged XXXX however there was unfortunately nothing of value to salvage" message on every one. Ah, this is simply not true. I usually make a bookmark while running the mission, turn in the mission, get in my looting and salvaging ship and go salvage. And I get plenty of salvage.
Ms Freak Amarr NCN Corp Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.03.03 11:48:00 - [48] Edited by: Ms Freak on 03/03/2007 11:45:52 How to probe a mission runner: Before you start ensure you have: 1 Cov-Ops (not a stealth bomber) 1 Cloak II ( so they dont pick you up on scanner and run away) 2 scan-time rigs (installed) All Scan-realted skills to lvl 4 a) use the directional scanner to get within 5au, if can't get within 5au with the use of safe spots and the like, then get within 10. If you can't get within 10, don't bother. ^^ THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT BIT THE REST IS BASED ON LUCK - GET AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE ** b) here you have 2 choices based on your distance from target: 1) use regular probes, ideally Snoop/Fathom. 2) use exploration probes. this is all dependant on your distance as exploration probes have poor distances but you scan based on the ship type you are trying to find and the uber strength of the probes makes the task alot easier. c) Drop your probe, start a scan and cloak up. unclock start a new scan, clock, rinse repeat, maybe drop a new probe, untill you get a hit. Most of the time i can scann a runner from 4au away with 1 probe. Sometimes it takes 2. Sometimes it takes 6. oh and always scan for SHIPS & DRONES you never find anything else, if your target is using drones you'll find him 10x easier. you have to remember it's all luck based so you just have to get a good scan spot and wait.
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.03 13:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 03/03/2007 13:23:00 Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well a certain pirate corp in a certain former home system of mine had no problem probing us runners quite regularly even at pretty remote mission spots. Of course that doesn't work with one probe, but cover the system well and voila... Was it because it was a hub and they were just using the blanket approach? Or were they able to target specific people easily? At the time they probed me (and I had NO drones out since I was in my looter battleship) there was one other mission runner is system who was also probed a bit later (we both escaped though). Usually there are like 3-5 people mission running at the same time. Is that a hub to you? One of my corpmates made a habit of probing us out regularly too. It really is all about a good network it seems. Maybe that system just has the warpables at ideal spots for probing, but more likely the wolves are trying to give the sheep a false sense of security with their whining about hard probing. It is only hard if you are not dedicated enough. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Snake Doctor Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.03.03 15:55:00 - [50] Originally by: The Warfish Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: The Warfish Just out of curiosity, but what pleasure do you get from finding Mission Runners and killing them? Sounds alot like the 12 year old in WoW who rolled an Undead Rogue to 60 and proceeds to uberwtfpwn!!!11! every Level 20 he can find. To each their own, of course, just wondering which part of killing Mission folks you enjoy, and why. Alot of them have really nice faction or officer loot and most of the faction bs kills are from mission runners so it's a break from the norm. Ah, just the profit, eh? I must admit, as a very new EvE Player, I found getting jumped in 0.4 Belts and whilst going to and fro from Missions to be rather unappealing as a gameplay event. I suppose it is what it is, and I'm just a lame weak carebear who shoud shut up and understand EvE IS a PvP Focussed game, and that I should enjoy my Frig getting wiped up by some T2 Cruiser or HAC, cause thats how it is, wimp. Lol. It certainly must add to the low amount of players EvE holds onto that almost no activity with any real value is actually free from other players with vastly more experience, vastly better equipment, and vastly more skill (earned over time and waork I'm sure, to be fair) warping in and crushing your little noobie arse. So I like to know the midset of the guy who comes in to kill my Frig and demands 10 mil to let my pod live when I was two weeks into the game. Know thy enemy, right? brings a tear to my eye..... no. not really. We've all been there and had this happen. i lost my first cormorant to zeroh in miroitem, and my first stabber to some other dude in ishomilkin. don't worry, pay your dues and you'll be wtfpwning people in a hac in no time. ...the hard part is learning how to brush off the loss that just emptied your wallet and smile about it in the end. even if you end up with the worst of the worst gankers, they are usually decent people and more mature than anyone you'll find in jita...
Snake Doctor Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.03.03 15:59:00 - [51] Everyone makes such a huge deal about probing for missions--- it's already been well stated in all of the texts that deadspace is now 1/1000 signal for probes. I've scanned out wrecks that were from encounters, but there is only ONE WAY to find deadspace missions. so far, the ONLY WAY TO PICK UP DEADSPACE MISSIONS WITH PROBES is to catch a soon too be unlucky ship sitting on the deadspace gate. That's it. you might find his ship.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.03.03 17:38:00 - [52] Just convo em and tell em you want to "help" on there missions. Or ask em if they can "help" you with your mission. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Rigsta Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.03 20:27:00 - [53] Originally by: The Warfish Just out of curiosity, but what pleasure do you get from finding Mission Runners and killing them? Sounds alot like the 12 year old in WoW who rolled an Undead Rogue to 60 and proceeds to uberwtfpwn!!!11! every Level 20 he can find. To each their own, of course, just wondering which part of killing Mission folks you enjoy, and why. Maybe the corps are at war? Maybe warping to a mission complex in 0.0-0.4 shouldn't be a get out of jail free card? Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
Kulmid Bringers of Misfortune	Posted - 2007.03.03 21:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Rigsta Maybe warping to a mission complex in 0.0-0.4 shouldn't be a get out of jail free card? This is exactly how I see it at the moment. Mission in low sec is a completely safe way to make ISK in low sec, meanwhile there are people in the belts trying to make 1/10th the ISK you are with a big triangle on a pirates screen where they are. If mission runners wants to mission in low sec, they should have the same risks as anyone else trying to make ISK in low sec.
Aramova Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.04 01:01:00 - [55] Originally by: The Warfish Just out of curiosity, but what pleasure do you get from finding Mission Runners and killing them? Sounds alot like the 12 year old in WoW who rolled an Undead Rogue to 60 and proceeds to uberwtfpwn!!!11! every Level 20 he can find. To each their own, of course, just wondering which part of killing Mission folks you enjoy, and why. I lol'ed -- Lag is kinda like CYVOK, it kills as many friendlies as hostiles...
Phish1 Liberty Forces Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.04 01:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Aramova Originally by: The Warfish Just out of curiosity, but what pleasure do you get from finding Mission Runners and killing them? Sounds alot like the 12 year old in WoW who rolled an Undead Rogue to 60 and proceeds to uberwtfpwn!!!11! every Level 20 he can find. To each their own, of course, just wondering which part of killing Mission folks you enjoy, and why. I lol'ed its not pleasure, its isk im sure u mission runners lose a ship occasionally, well in pvp you can lose ships very fast (52 of them, 14 of us, very good fight, wasted 3 ships of mine, that cost me 300 mil to replace them all) and why should we not kill people who can give us that isk, how do you think we make money, sitting in the gutters of the spacelanes with our pod inside a cardoard box and a hat waiting for loose change? NO, we kill people, and steal there stuff, occasionally we rat or mission, but on the whole you kill people and steal their stuff to buy new ships so you can kill people and steal their stuff. now go back to jita and STFU in forums. oh, and to whoever said pvp was easy... id like to see you try, convo me ingame and meet me in 0.0 somewhere.
Snikkt Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.04 01:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Phish1 Originally by: Aramova Originally by: The Warfish Just out of curiosity, but what pleasure do you get from finding Mission Runners and killing them? Sounds alot like the 12 year old in WoW who rolled an Undead Rogue to 60 and proceeds to uberwtfpwn!!!11! every Level 20 he can find. To each their own, of course, just wondering which part of killing Mission folks you enjoy, and why. I lol'ed its not pleasure, its isk im sure u mission runners lose a ship occasionally, well in pvp you can lose ships very fast (52 of them, 14 of us, very good fight, wasted 3 ships of mine, that cost me 300 mil to replace them all) and why should we not kill people who can give us that isk, how do you think we make money, sitting in the gutters of the spacelanes with our pod inside a cardoard box and a hat waiting for loose change? NO, we kill people, and steal there stuff, occasionally we rat or mission, but on the whole you kill people and steal their stuff to buy new ships so you can kill people and steal their stuff. now go back to jita and STFU in forums. oh, and to whoever said pvp was easy... id like to see you try, convo me ingame and meet me in 0.0 somewhere. Stereotypical e-tough guy. Seriously, who are you trying to impress? ------------------- My opinions (ie, all of my posting here) are not my corporations. Nor should it be taken as such. Originally by: Jim Raynor Scorpion is powerful, Raven is not. Raven is easily the

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