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Citadels Should Only Be Anchored At Planets or Moons

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Rune Star Trauma Ward Winmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2016.06.26 23:26:32 - [1] - Quote I'd accept the sun too, but really at star gates? It just makes the game feel cheap. Most carebears are setting up bubble hellcamps off gates now with their citadel. So when you jump in you've got to deal with the citadel and bubble rage cage and can't even go snipe a bear in an anom. :(
Neadayan Drakhon Heuristic Industrial And Development AddictClan 290	Posted - 2016.06.26 23:37:36 - [2] - Quote Working as intended, move along. Edit - semi serious response: You're complaining that people are actually defending their space?
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 8179	Posted - 2016.06.26 23:38:00 - [3] - Quote GÖ½ Unintended Consequences. GÖ¼ Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
Rune Star Trauma Ward Winmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2016.06.26 23:41:29 - [4] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: GÖ½ Unintended Consequences. GÖ¼ Hopefully there's an iterative pass on Citadels after a few patches. Although it's pretty low prio, I bet. It just feels kinda like space is going to get trashed up with citadels on gate.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3350	Posted - 2016.06.26 23:42:44 - [5] - Quote CCP failed to allow for 1000km drag bubbles in their thought process. Which results in an overly silly situation now and I'm quite sure they will correct it one way or another.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17782	Posted - 2016.06.27 01:03:26 - [6] - Quote Rune Star wrote: I'd accept the sun too, but really at star gates? It just makes the game feel cheap. Most carebears are setting up bubble hellcamps off gates now with their citadel. So when you jump in you've got to deal with the citadel and bubble rage cage and can't even go snipe a bear in an anom. :( If they're only carebears, reinforce the citadel and make it cost them 2B a pop every time they try this. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
nezroy Nice Clan 18	Posted - 2016.06.27 04:52:13 - [7] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: CCP failed to allow for 1000km drag bubbles in their thought process. Which results in an overly silly situation now and I'm quite sure they will correct it one way or another. They actually went out of their way to RESTRICT them to ONLY 1000km drag bubbles, so... I mean, you can disagree with their choice but you can't actually argue they didn't think about it.
Yang Aurilen The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1277	Posted - 2016.06.27 05:36:19 - [8] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Rune Star wrote: I'd accept the sun too, but really at star gates? It just makes the game feel cheap. Most carebears are setting up bubble hellcamps off gates now with their citadel. So when you jump in you've got to deal with the citadel and bubble rage cage and can't even go snipe a bear in an anom. :( If they're only carebears, reinforce the citadel and make it cost them 2B a pop every time they try this. #Effort #BringingActualShipsOnTheField #NoFriends #ActuallyRiskingSomething #SomeoneElseCanDoItAndWhiningIsBetter Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16525	Posted - 2016.06.27 05:42:06 - [9] - Quote Yang Aurilen wrote: Malcanis wrote: Rune Star wrote: I'd accept the sun too, but really at star gates? It just makes the game feel cheap. Most carebears are setting up bubble hellcamps off gates now with their citadel. So when you jump in you've got to deal with the citadel and bubble rage cage and can't even go snipe a bear in an anom. :( If they're only carebears, reinforce the citadel and make it cost them 2B a pop every time they try this. #Effort #BringingActualShipsOnTheField #NoFriends #ActuallyRiskingSomething #SomeoneElseCanDoItAndWhiningIsBetter #amidoingitright? Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1855	Posted - 2016.06.27 08:58:46 - [10] - Quote They are putting a Citadel at risk, also it is being used as a force multiplier to assist in area defence, perfectly good use of a citadel IMO. If you don't like it go and blow it up, they are "carebears" after all... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.

Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2879	Posted - 2016.06.27 09:19:07 - [11] - Quote There should be more ways to protect your space and rmake it your own, not less. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 932	Posted - 2016.06.27 11:06:45 - [12] - Quote Working as Designed. Please submit a change request, as this is not a defect. Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Mark Hadden Ministry of War Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2016.06.27 11:25:49 - [13] - Quote yes, citadels on gate grids shouldn't be possible since they allow safe gatecamps from 1000 km away. Lets see how long CCP is going to take to fix this.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 347	Posted - 2016.06.27 12:10:42 - [14] - Quote You gotta love that opening salvo of a whinethread about getting rekt by bears. Shall we introduce a brand new Plankton class for Bear++ bottom feeders?
Chewytowel Haklar KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 210	Posted - 2016.06.27 14:54:39 - [15] - Quote Yeah this makes me sad too. I demand you all take down all these bubbles and citadels on gates cause it makes my job much much harder! Also, please don't shoot me and destroy my ship unless you honor my 1 vs 1 honorable combat request. Thanks and have a pleasant day. OH, lastly do NOT drop super's on people that is just rude!!!!
Aiwha Infinite Point Test Alliance Please Ignore 1191	Posted - 2016.06.27 15:22:04 - [16] - Quote Citadels have to be 1k off gates. So you're never gonna be blapped by one when you jump though a gate. Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 397	Posted - 2016.06.27 16:58:15 - [17] - Quote Ugh, bubbles are only allowed in NullSec, right? If so, then Carebears in Null? That's a new one on me. Sounds like a bad cartoon title. Also, if null, then can't you cyno the system and drop a Cap Fleet in there to remove the Citadel? I don't think CCP would allow something like this to exist if there weren't ways around it. Also, if you dropped a Fleet through the gate, wouldn't the Citadel be dragging in it's own doom? I think I'm missing a lot of information here to understand what the issue really is. Then again, I'm a HiSec Carebear (Though I usually do have on my teeth and claws) and we are dumber than your average bear, maybe really dumb compared to our NullSec cousins... Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 348	Posted - 2016.06.27 17:05:48 - [18] - Quote Think OP's complaining about not having a scout / tactical bookmarks around gates, then getting his fleet dragged into bubbles at the citadel where it dies horribly. Nullsec things, yup. Citadels have access to deadly weapon systems (point defense, mini-doomsdays) you won't find (I believe?) in highsec. Still... how about not flying into the bubble maybe? Is this different than any other gaycamp?
Roci Nantes Spongeworks Ltd. Snuggle Struggle. 9	Posted - 2016.06.27 17:09:01 - [19] - Quote I agree with the OP's statement but not for the same reason. Maybe I'm the only one but I hate seeing all the citadels in the system.(I mean physically seeing them) I can't throw a rock and not have to look at this terrible looking things. Some systems with a dozen or more is just gross. At least with the pos you had to go to a moon to see them. It feels like I'm in WALL-E flying through everyone's space junk. The function and use of the citadels is fine by me. I just don't like seeing them.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16530	Posted - 2016.06.27 17:16:11 - [20] - Quote Roci Nantes wrote: I agree with the OP's statement but not for the same reason. Maybe I'm the only one but I hate seeing all the citadels in the system.(I mean physically seeing them) I can't throw a rock and not have to look at this terrible looking things. Some systems with a dozen or more is just gross. At least with the pos you had to go to a moon to see them. It feels like I'm in WALL-E flying through everyone's space junk. The function and use of the citadels is fine by me. I just don't like seeing them. So go slap them about, bring like two guardians and a couple of vindis and youre golden. Unless they have a defense fleet but then you get a fight! Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=

Roci Nantes Spongeworks Ltd. Snuggle Struggle. 9	Posted - 2016.06.27 19:13:27 - [21] - Quote I have attempted to stir up a crusade or two... I hope to at least keep them out of the areas I like to frequent. If there is already a dozen of them in a system, really isn't a whole lot of point in trying to destroy them.
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 397	Posted - 2016.06.27 19:59:24 - [22] - Quote I see the Astrahaus's pretty regularly but not much larger yet (at least in HiSec areas I poodle around in.) (And before you ask, yes, poodle around is the appropriate term. You see my capsule entertainment system is cobbled together from old starship salvage parts and it's what's left of something called "VHS" and I have one tape... Grease. So, poodle skirt and blonde wig singing my way through the Cosmos.) Okay, enough with about as much RP as I will ever feel like doing in GD. Anyway, having multiple Citadels in a system shouldn't be much of a problem unless the dominate your overview so much you can't see anything else. At that point I'd either ask CCP for a quick reconfig button on the Overview that you can toggle certain states of a tab on and off... or time to get together a fleet of like minded, annoyed, folks and put them all into reinforced a few times and wipe them out in a week... or two. I have no idea what drives people to want to put these critters up anyway, it's like Deep Space 9, you're stuck there and all the fights have to come to you! Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2884	Posted - 2016.06.27 20:11:19 - [23] - Quote The carriers are not safe. You cannot tether with a weapons timer so the carrier becomes vulnerable when it aggresses. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 137	Posted - 2016.06.27 21:16:06 - [24] - Quote Rune Star wrote: I'd accept the sun too, but really at star gates? It just makes the game feel cheap. Most carebears are setting up bubble hellcamps off gates now with their citadel. So when you jump in you've got to deal with the citadel and bubble rage cage and can't even go snipe a bear in an anom. :( Let us begin a glorious list: 1. Bubble Hellcamps are nothing new. Therefore you argument regarding being unable to "snipe a bear" due to the bubble camps is not valid. 2. A Citadel can only be within 1000 KM of a gate, so the guns cannot touch you. Therefore your argument regarding being unable to "snipe a bear" due to a Citadel being on gate is not valid. 3. Carriers sitting on a Citadel while fighters are on gate - Being addressed in the next patch (people feel different things about this), so your whining about CCP not addressing (at least part of) the issue is not valid. 4. A bubble camp with a ship defending it shows that someone is defending their space. This is a good thing. We can debate the use of carriers all you want, but at least someone is defending it. You want a fight? Go look for one. You jump in a system with a camp, then obviously whatever you are flying can't handle it, so move on the to the next and don't go back. 5. Your use of the term "snipe a bear" leads me to think you are not actually looking for a "Good Fight" but rather a gank. I have news for you. There is no such thing as a "Good Fight" in Eve (unless arranged). This is how the game is played. If you ever find yourself in an even fight, it does not mean both sides were honorable. It means both sides messed up somehow and did not fight on their terms. Some people don't mind this. Others such as your self complain on the forums. This is Eve it is what we do.
Vic Jefferson Stimulus Rote Kapelle 1018	Posted - 2016.06.27 21:21:55 - [25] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Rune Star wrote: I'd accept the sun too, but really at star gates? It just makes the game feel cheap. Most carebears are setting up bubble hellcamps off gates now with their citadel. So when you jump in you've got to deal with the citadel and bubble rage cage and can't even go snipe a bear in an anom. :( If they're only carebears, reinforce the citadel and make it cost them 2B a pop every time they try this. Oh you are better than this. It dramatically raises the bar for roaming gangs, and gives them risk free ways to defend their space from small raids. The entire point of AegisSov was to try and make sov more dynamic, and put value on smaller raids, rather than everything being about 1 or 2 timers. This tilts it back to timer-based gameplay, involving large fleets, rather than being dynamic, fun, and fast. I.E. don't bother trying to do a roam unless everyone has all the book mark packs, and or you actually have a fleet that can fight a citadel. I never had a problem with gate camps, or people defending their space. That is good, emergent gameplay. Getting camped in by a 100 man supercap fleet in JU- was fair: they at least had to be undocked and vulnerable on paper, whereas there is absolutely zero risk in camping in a citadel. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 519	Posted - 2016.06.27 21:54:24 - [26] - Quote I don't understand. Citadels can be no closer than 1000 km to a gate. Citadels can only dock out to 350 km. How is the citadel a factor at all?
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 349	Posted - 2016.06.27 22:06:23 - [27] - Quote it's a one-man defense with a bubble dragging y'all in. Whereas a regular camp would require more than one gunman. Edit: ...and whereas a regular camp can be shot-- the citadel outside its vulnerability window can shoot yessir, but you can't shoot back.
Yang Aurilen The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1282	Posted - 2016.06.27 23:58:07 - [28] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: it's a one-man defense with a bubble dragging y'all in. Whereas a regular camp would require more than one gunman. Edit: ...and whereas a regular camp can be shot-- the citadel outside its vulnerability window can shoot yessir, but you can't shoot back. Warp off? Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2950	Posted - 2016.06.28 01:23:56 - [29] - Quote Yang Aurilen wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: it's a one-man defense with a bubble dragging y'all in. Whereas a regular camp would require more than one gunman. Edit: ...and whereas a regular camp can be shot-- the citadel outside its vulnerability window can shoot yessir, but you can't shoot back. Warp off? Did you miss the point where he mentioned a bubble?
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2886	Posted - 2016.06.28 01:39:21 - [30] - Quote Don't warp straight to the gate? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2950	Posted - 2016.06.28 03:30:45 - [31] - Quote Zappity wrote: Don't warp straight to the gate? If you have the mean to drop a citadel 1000km off a gate, you probably can afford enough bubbles to cover a gate effectively.
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2886	Posted - 2016.06.28 03:33:11 - [32] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Zappity wrote: Don't warp straight to the gate? If you have the mean to drop a citadel 1000km off a gate, you probably can afford enough bubbles to cover a gate effectively. But so what? Citadels can't agress out to 1000km can they? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 128	Posted - 2016.06.28 03:49:53 - [33] - Quote Zappity wrote: The carriers are not safe. You cannot tether with a weapons timer so the carrier becomes vulnerable when it aggresses. I recently partook in such an action. We had about 35 in an inty gang. Spotted a carrier on a citadel. Baited, he aggressed one of the inties, became vulnerable and died to a fleet of roughly 35 interceptors. Its was hilarious to kill a carrier in nothing but interceptors.
TackyTachy1 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2016.06.28 04:39:02 - [34] - Quote OK, gonna show my ignorance but I got plenty of it so I won't miss this little bit. I've only seen one Citadel close up but somebody was shooting at me and I couldn't dawdle to gawk. But the thought occurs to me that a small Citadel could be anchored (do they gotta be off a gate?) somewhere out on the rim in a really out of the way system (safe spot, maybe?), then park a bubble over it, log off, go do whatever wild-ass stuff you do in RL then on your return kill/loot/salvage whatever got caught in the bubble then do whatever. Yes, I could go do the research and answer this on my own but neither Citadel nor bubble currently lies on my event horizon so I'll just ask a dumb question. Hangar Videos: CCP/USAWallStreet Love Child
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2886	Posted - 2016.06.28 05:00:53 - [35] - Quote TackyTachy1 wrote: OK, gonna show my ignorance but I got plenty of it so I won't miss this little bit. I've only seen one Citadel close up but somebody was shooting at me and I couldn't dawdle to gawk. But the thought occurs to me that a small Citadel could be anchored (do they gotta be off a gate?) somewhere out on the rim in a really out of the way system (safe spot, maybe?), then park a bubble over it, log off, go do whatever wild-ass stuff you do in RL then on your return kill/loot/salvage whatever got caught in the bubble then do whatever. Yes, I could go do the research and answer this on my own but neither Citadel nor bubble currently lies on my event horizon so I'll just ask a dumb question. Citadel guns are not automated. People may get caught in the bubble but they will not automatically be killed by the citadel. Citadels cannot be anchored within 1000 km of a gate. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Tsukino Stareine Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 1535	Posted - 2016.06.28 10:47:32 - [36] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Roci Nantes wrote: I agree with the OP's statement but not for the same reason. Maybe I'm the only one but I hate seeing all the citadels in the system.(I mean physically seeing them) I can't throw a rock and not have to look at this terrible looking things. Some systems with a dozen or more is just gross. At least with the pos you had to go to a moon to see them. It feels like I'm in WALL-E flying through everyone's space junk. The function and use of the citadels is fine by me. I just don't like seeing them. So go slap them about, bring like two guardians and a couple of vindis and youre golden. Unless they have a defense fleet but then you get a fight! I keep seeing this ** posted everywhere. "2 guardians can tank all the citadel bro!!" Have any of you who are posting this ever fought on top of a properly fit astrahus even? Also anchoring citadels on gates is broken as , plenty of people don't have 6million tacticals in null on every gate and there are PLENTY of gates with no celestials nearby to check it with. The only counter that has been suggested that works is by doing a half warp with no capacitor, obviously this has it's downsides (takes ***** ages) but OP this is your only way of checking such grids out beforehand
NEONOVUS Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us 998	Posted - 2016.06.28 18:34:14 - [37] - Quote Why not integrate the warp bubbles as a citadel module and remove them from the market as standalone items? Then they can't cage gates or anything anymore, and are now an ATK item. Make them like interdiction fields so that you can choose between infini point or bubble.
Esrevid Nekkeg Justified and Ancient 1971	Posted - 2016.06.28 18:59:06 - [38] - Quote NEONOVUS wrote: Why not integrate the warp bubbles as a citadel module and remove them from the market as standalone items? Then they can't cage gates or anything anymore, and are now an ATK item. Make them like interdiction fields so that you can choose between infini point or bubble. Eh....no. We use temporary bubbles often in our wormhole system for various reasons. I like my Mobile Warp Disruptors to be, well, mobile. Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2950	Posted - 2016.06.28 22:27:59 - [39] - Quote Roenok Baalnorn wrote: Zappity wrote: The carriers are not safe. You cannot tether with a weapons timer so the carrier becomes vulnerable when it aggresses. I recently partook in such an action. We had about 35 in an inty gang. Spotted a carrier on a citadel. Baited, he aggressed one of the inties, became vulnerable and died to a fleet of roughly 35 interceptors. Its was hilarious to kill a carrier in nothing but interceptors. Everything is balanced as long as some idiots can fail at it?
DaReaper Net 7 Cannon.Fodder 2867	Posted - 2016.06.28 22:54:38 - [40] - Quote 1) send a scout. if you have a fleet of more then 2, have someone scout. your scout can be an inty which is bubble immune anyway and give adequate warning to the fleet. or a bomber, or a covert ops, or a recon with a cloak, or a statios, or.. you should now get the picture 2) oh i'm in bubbles and going to die! then shoot there bubbles back, or as i said, have a scout. Seriously this is a none issue with some basic planing and i'm a damn carebear and even I know this OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining! Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom

Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 519	Posted - 2016.06.28 22:57:28 - [41] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Yang Aurilen wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: it's a one-man defense with a bubble dragging y'all in. Whereas a regular camp would require more than one gunman. Edit: ...and whereas a regular camp can be shot-- the citadel outside its vulnerability window can shoot yessir, but you can't shoot back. Warp off? Did you miss the point where he mentioned a bubble? Have you ever noticed that when you warp to something, you land 2500 m from it? That's what causes a fleet to land in a ball even when everybody in the fleet warped to the same thing. So at most, one needs to burn only 2500 m to get out of the bubble. A citadel takes a long time to lock something giving the ship plenty of time to get away (although I haven't tested a citadel's lock time when it's fitted for max scan res.) Now, if there was a sabre sitting there that threw up a bubble as soon as something lands, that's a different story...
NEONOVUS Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us 998	Posted - 2016.06.29 00:41:45 - [42] - Quote Esrevid Nekkeg wrote: NEONOVUS wrote: Why not integrate the warp bubbles as a citadel module and remove them from the market as standalone items? Then they can't cage gates or anything anymore, and are now an ATK item. Make them like interdiction fields so that you can choose between infini point or bubble. Eh....no. We use temporary bubbles often in our wormhole system for various reasons. I like my Mobile Warp Disruptors to be, well, mobile. They're not mobile. A ship is mobile, bring a heavy interdictor if you want mobile. Otherwise citadel or bubble, they're both stationary. Its just one also has XL missiles and a burning hatred for too many things, fueled by the anger of a black hearted man stuck watching endless renditions of Friday streaming over comms as he waits for a target, to kill
Sustrai Aditua Intandofisa 332	Posted - 2016.06.29 00:48:54 - [43] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: GÖ½ Unintended Consequences. GÖ¼ Confirmed: Nominated for Grammy. If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 350	Posted - 2016.06.29 01:14:19 - [44] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: Have you ever noticed that when you warp to something, you land 2500 m from it? That's what causes a fleet to land in a ball even when everybody in the fleet warped to the same thing. So at most, one needs to burn only 2500 m to get out of the bubble. A citadel takes a long time to lock something giving the ship plenty of time to get away (although I haven't tested a citadel's lock time when it's fitted for max scan res.) Now, if there was a sabre sitting there that threw up a bubble as soon as something lands, that's a different story... Pro-Tip: when you anchor a small bubble inside a large bubble, targets land at the edge of the small one, well inside the large bubble. ;-)
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 519	Posted - 2016.06.29 02:17:00 - [45] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Eli Stan wrote: Have you ever noticed that when you warp to something, you land 2500 m from it? That's what causes a fleet to land in a ball even when everybody in the fleet warped to the same thing. So at most, one needs to burn only 2500 m to get out of the bubble. A citadel takes a long time to lock something giving the ship plenty of time to get away (although I haven't tested a citadel's lock time when it's fitted for max scan res.) Now, if there was a sabre sitting there that threw up a bubble as soon as something lands, that's a different story... Pro-Tip: when you anchor a small bubble inside a large bubble, targets land at the edge of the small one, well inside the large bubble. ;-) Oh! I hadn't seen that before. Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.


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