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Was killing ASCN worth it?

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Gal Fed Identifiable Characters Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:26:00 - [1] Simple question: Was killing ASCN a mistake for BoB? Had ASCN still been around today and had BoB never of declared war on them, they would have undoubtedly of sided with Bob in this New Eden War. So, was it a mistake for BoB to kill off ASCN and lose a ally (and even create more enemies now) for this war, or have the benefits of having Feythabolis, Estoria, and Paragon Soul outweighed the disadvanatges? Personally I think BoB would have been better off with ASCN still alive. Several bil a month in rent can't possibly be worth having the largest alliance in the game by your side. -Not a unidentified character
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:27:00 - [2] time will tell Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety)
Grainsalt Free Corp	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:28:00 - [3] Edited by: Grainsalt on 04/03/2007 21:24:40 I think BOB are in it for good fights, they thought they would have got more .. This war is what they want, a challenge, so I don't think they care either way, in fact they probably prefer it more this way. Just my 2 cents. ---
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:29:00 - [4] Edited by: Rikeka on 04/03/2007 21:27:12 I doubt ASCN would have sided with BoB on this one. I read somewhere that the north hated ASCN more than BoB itself, so ASCN would probably had stayed neutral on this one. Anyone`s guess now. Unless you ask a former high ranking officer of ASCN ¿What would have done if this and that...¿, of course.
Aeryn Musevenii	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:30:00 - [5] If ascn was worth a damn it wouldnt have folded so quickly. given the current situation i doubt they would have made it 1 week into the fight, never mind 1 month. theirs no place for half baked carebares in this war, and iss has proved it.
Kam SingDu'k Singularity.	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:34:00 - [6] If Bob did not kill off ASCN there would be no 'great new eden' war... 2 cents
thoth foc Elcyion Lacar	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:34:00 - [7] what difference does it make? regions? stations? change is good.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) xATUK (.5.) xDICE (BOB)
Gal Fed Identifiable Characters Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:35:00 - [8] Edited by: Gal Fed on 04/03/2007 21:33:10 Originally by: Rikeka Edited by: Rikeka on 04/03/2007 21:27:12 I doubt ASCN would have sided with BoB on this one. I read somewhere that the north hated ASCN more than BoB itself, so ASCN would probably had stayed neutral on this one. Anyone`s guess now. Unless you ask a former high ranking officer of ASCN ¿What would have done if this and that...¿, of course. ASCN and BoB were long time friends. Much of this comes from the fact that CYVOK and BoB's leaders were friends with each other. It was quite suprising when BoB one day decided to attack ASCN as ASCN considered BoB to be somewhat friendly even if it was more unofficial than the relationship between other alliances. Point being, in a war this large, ASCN would of easily fallen in the BoB camp. EDIT: And also ASCN and the north were never friendly, especially after that war about a year and a half ago, when G/IRON invaded Feyth. -Not a unidentified character
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:35:00 - [9] IIRC, ASCN were planning to move against BoB, they just decided to strike first. I could be wrong about that, but I remember reading that somewhere, dunno if it's true or not. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Drakma Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Gal Fed Originally by: Rikeka Edited by: Rikeka on 04/03/2007 21:27:12 I doubt ASCN would have sided with BoB on this one. I read somewhere that the north hated ASCN more than BoB itself, so ASCN would probably had stayed neutral on this one. Anyone`s guess now. Unless you ask a former high ranking officer of ASCN ¿What would have done if this and that...¿, of course. ASCN and BoB were long time friends. Much of this comes from the fact that CYVOK and BoB's leaders were friends with each other. It was quite suprising when BoB one day decided to attack ASCN as ASCN considered BoB to be somewhat friendly even if it was more unofficial than the relationship between other alliances. Point being, in a war this large, ASCN would of easily fallen in the BoB camp. I can honestly say that I don't believe ASCN would have sided with BoB. At best, I viewed that "friendship" at arms length... ----------------- Gekidoku is recruiting - Ingame channel Gekidoku
OwnedBy Me	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:50:00 - [11] ASCN/AXE where friendly with BOB it was just small roaming gangs into eachothers space but nothing big.. Some of the leader are RL freinds and still are afaik.. Im sure that AXE and quit possibly ASCN would have taken side with BOB if things had gone a different way. ASCN wasnt all carebears, they did kick out G/IRON/RAZOR when they tryed to invade Frey.. AXE was hit but AAA and ASCN was hit but BOB, as everyone know that they toghter would have made it alot harder fight for BOB and might have dragged it out alot longer then it happened. Its my belive that the outcome would have been the same ever the less.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Grainsalt Edited by: Grainsalt on 04/03/2007 21:24:40 I think BOB are in it for good fights, they thought they would have got more .. This war is what they want, a challenge, so I don't think they care either way, in fact they probably prefer it more this way. Just my 2 cents. That is why they are complaining in 3-f right now about it.
Ben Derindar KelBen Productions	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Gal Fed Simple question: Was killing ASCN a mistake for BoB? From their perspective I would say if BoB win the current war, then no, but if they don't, then quite possibly. Who knows? shrug Originally by: Kam SingDu'k If Bob did not kill off ASCN there would be no 'great new eden' war... That may have been a catalyst, but I don't think we would be seeing what we're seeing now had certain OOG allegations not come to light. Originally by: maarud IIRC, ASCN were planning to move against BoB, they just decided to strike first. I could be wrong about that, but I remember reading that somewhere, dunno if it's true or not. That would surprise me if that were the case. Even long after leaving the alliance, I was worried that ASCN taking Paragon from Tribal Souls would have them overextended, let alone thoughts of pressing any further. /Ben How to fix Eve
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.03.04 21:59:00 - [14] I think two groups fighting each-other is ALWAYS worth it. Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer Proud member of the Customer Service Coalition.
killerco Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:00:00 - [15] Originally by: maarud IIRC, ASCN were planning to move against BoB, they just decided to strike first. I could be wrong about that, but I remember reading that somewhere, dunno if it's true or not. when the war really started ascn made the first real move. It back fired on ascn but thats another story Don't be a great man just be a man
Dragutinovic Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:01:00 - [16] ASCN so called got killed cuz their leadership lied and what not to its membership . So when can we expect a declaration of war upon LV by BoB ? _____________ Im back !
Grainsalt Free Corp	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Grainsalt Edited by: Grainsalt on 04/03/2007 21:24:40 I think BOB are in it for good fights, they thought they would have got more .. This war is what they want, a challenge, so I don't think they care either way, in fact they probably prefer it more this way. Just my 2 cents. That is why they are complaining in 3-f right now about it. As Sir Molle said, if they start losing, 1/2 of bob would leave but the hardcore that fought the GNW would still be there. I wouldnt confuse one half with the other. ---
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:15:00 - [18] Originally by: OwnedBy Me ASCN/AXE where friendly with BOB it was just small roaming gangs into eachothers space but nothing big.. Some of the leader are RL freinds and still are afaik.. Im sure that AXE and quit possibly ASCN would have taken side with BOB if things had gone a different way. ASCN wasnt all carebears, they did kick out G/IRON/RAZOR when they tryed to invade Frey.. AXE was hit but AAA and ASCN was hit but BOB, as everyone know that they toghter would have made it alot harder fight for BOB and might have dragged it out alot longer then it happened. Its my belive that the outcome would have been the same ever the less. what do you mean axe would have sided with BoB i thought they were already on the side of BoB in Fountain knowledge is power.... guard it well
Xeliya Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:18:00 - [19] Edited by: Xeliya on 04/03/2007 22:15:02 It was worth, us in the South get board fast with no fighting, even if our land is destroyed its well worth it. Care Bearing and NAPing everyone FTL ----------
Sha Dar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:20:00 - [20] If Cyvok was still in charge, and they hadn't taken feyth, then proabably, yes, though to help BOD in this would have caused a mass haemorehage of members and quite possibly corps. However, we weren't "friendly" in the sense most people think. We viewed them as our biggest threat, and it came true.
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:21:00 - [21] I'm still a newb but to me it seems, 1, if bob never killed ASCN this war may never have started 2, I think bob have got just what they wanted ---------------------- Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Tomic Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:35:00 - [22] I don't think ASCN would have helped BOB unless it was clear the northern coalition threatened ASCN as well. The other question you need to ask yourself is the flip side of this one, did D2 + friends make a mistake by waiting until ASCN died to join the fight? Given some release of pressure and some recovering time (maybe 1-2 months) ASCN would undoubtedly have joined in the coalition against BOB, and they would have had a load more help. Time will tell whether this would make that much of a difference, but it certainly would have made the coalition's job a lot easier.
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:46:00 - [23] Edited by: Fitz Chivalry on 04/03/2007 22:42:43 Originally by: maarud IIRC, ASCN were planning to move against BoB, they just decided to strike first. I could be wrong about that, but I remember reading that somewhere, dunno if it's true or not. You are 100% wrong about that.
Vodka Neat Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:48:00 - [24] Quickly stated, no. From my point of view, friendly or not, one of them would attack the other. This is because of the perceived power of each. They posed the most immediate threat to each other. This was also most likely slowing down BoBÆs plans since they would always have to factor in this potential threat when trying to gobble up more of the map. If they hadnÆt destroyed ASCN and got into a prolonged fight in the north I canÆt imagine ASCN not attacking in the south while they were exposed. I think the real question will be: Was not helping ASCN kill BoB a mistake? -Why don't the NPC pilots have pods?-
Roller Syn-Packet Security	Posted - 2007.03.04 22:58:00 - [25] To paraphrase CYVOK "I hate dog piles".... That is what BoB is facing. Instead of leaving LV to twist in the wind with no support ASCN could have shored them up for a little while longer (1 to 3 months). The inevitable would have probably still happened (fall of LV) but then RA-Goon-TCF would still had another meat shield to go through before getting to BoB. With ASCN in place you would have also kept -A- engaged with AXE. Removing ASCN from the equation spead up the demise of LV, released -A- to attack, and shortened the time till the east could directly attack BoB. They've seemingly stacked the deck against themselves as much as possible. If you're playing this game for keeps then such "tactical" moves would not seem wise.
Gal Fed Identifiable Characters Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.04 23:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Vodka Neat Quickly stated, no. From my point of view, friendly or not, one of them would attack the other. This is because of the perceived power of each. They posed the most immediate threat to each other. This was also most likely slowing down BoBÆs plans since they would always have to factor in this potential threat when trying to gobble up more of the map. If they hadnÆt destroyed ASCN and got into a prolonged fight in the north I canÆt imagine ASCN not attacking in the south while they were exposed. I think the real question will be: Was not helping ASCN kill BoB a mistake? In the 2 year history of ASCN, it was the agressor in only one conflict. I believe it was againist Tribal Souls (might have been Prime Orbitial Systems, I always mix up the two). CYVOK decided to go to war because despite his best efforts to negotiate with them it appeared that they were only intrested in playing games with him. Therefore, I highly doubt ASCN was prepping to go to war with anyone, let alone BoB. -Not an unidentified character
Helina Malinos Caldari Euro Traders	Posted - 2007.03.04 23:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Gal Fed Simple question: Was killing ASCN a mistake for BoB? Had ASCN still been around today and had BoB never of declared war on them, they would have undoubtedly of sided with Bob in this New Eden War. So, was it a mistake for BoB to kill off ASCN and lose a ally (and even create more enemies now) for this war, or have the benefits of having Feythabolis, Estoria, and Paragon Soul outweighed the disadvanatges? Personally I think BoB would have been better off with ASCN still alive. Several bil a month in rent can't possibly be worth having the largest alliance in the game by your side. ASCN was pwned hands down by a far smaller alliance, BOB is holding of far greater numbers with ease and getting some awsom kills. The truth is that ASCN would not have been in any way shape or form any use to BoB and its better for EVE that there gone.
Sky lv Chicas Locas Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.04 23:34:00 - [28] I think this was all a mater of time tbh. eventually this war had to happen, and I think it shows there are checks and balances. Personally I dont think any one alliance should control all of .0 (which if was possible there would have to be something very wrong with eve) which is clearly bobs attentions, this war proves that if you **** enough people off they will come after you no matter who you are. With LV out of the picture now bob might get what they claim they want all out war.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.03.04 23:34:00 - [29] IF my aunt WOULD have a p3n15, she WOULD be my uncle.... so whats exactly the point of this discussion ?
fisty Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.04 23:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Grainsalt Edited by: Grainsalt on 04/03/2007 21:24:40 I think BOB are in it for good fights, they thought they would have got more .. This war is what they want, a challenge, so I don't think they care either way, in fact they probably prefer it more this way. Just my 2 cents. signed Ciao

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