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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar
Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:36:00 -
[1]
Am I missing something amazing about the land of infinate lag?
Pretty much every top end faction mod is for sale in Jita, and nowhere else! Now, surely not every single pilot who gets a top faction drop flies to Jita to sell it?
This leads to 3 possible conclusions:-
1. All pilots outside of The Forge area don't sell their faction drops.
or
2. All top faction drops happen in The Forge area.
or
3. The search facility in Contracts is a load of arse!
So, which is it?
My skills
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:41:00 -
[2]
Because CCP wants it that way is the short answer.
Otherwise they wouldn't have put the region limitations into contracts.....
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Faaip De Oiad
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:41:00 -
[3]
they bring their faction drops to jita because
a.) they can buy all stuff they need for their hunting grounds, while selling their own stuff at the same place.
b.) as jita has lots of customers and also a history for faction trades, it's easy to sell quick for reasonable prices instead of waiting for a buyer in one of the off-the-mainroute regions.
maybe there are more reasons .. but those are imho the major ones.
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Sharcy
Sonnema
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:43:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Now, surely not every single pilot who gets a top faction drop flies to Jita to sell it?
You should have added that as option nr. 4. Best chance of getting it sold is in the place where everybody goes to shop, especially for rare items.
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Weebear
The Bowrey
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:45:00 -
[5]
It's because most autopilot routes over a certain number pass through Jita, so it has more jumps than any other systerm.
It used to be Yulai until CCP changed the jump routes (think that was part of RMR?! Can't quite remember.)
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Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Am I missing something amazing about the land of infinate lag?
Pretty much every top end faction mod is for sale in Jita, and nowhere else! Now, surely not every single pilot who gets a top faction drop flies to Jita to sell it?
No, not every single one. Only roundabout 90% of them for reasons stated above.
---------
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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Aelita
Minmatar
47R
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:54:00 -
[7]
Yes you do missing key point like CCP developers does.
Why exist Jita marketplace? Look at Wall Street and globalized comodities market. It's necesary to have one central market because more goods to offer == more customers == better chance to sell buy. CCP should hire economic advisory for EVE.
CCP don't offer for players centralized buy/offer system, you need go personally to sellers booth (station) to get goods, same for case when you offer something to sell. If you have something to sell would you settle your shop at some burned street on edge of town with small chance to sell or go into crowded centre?
You can answer yourself why Jita-syndrome in EVE. CCP should apply global market, global contract system and delivery services for some fee. It will solve problems instantly. If developers are concerned about heavy load on SQL, then limit number of searches (even ISK fee per query) or allow only narow queries thru global system.
When seller wouldn't need to go at one place for selling stuf, but allowing it sell from any place in universe (means NPC stations) and who does need stuf just order it to deliver right to doors for fee, problem is solved.
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:55:00 -
[8]
pick 2 systems at random
watch route
rinse repeat
if you go by the approx right of the map you'll most the time go across jita in the north or rens in the south
market hubs go there, there is always one
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Relaxed corp recruiting |
Aelita
Minmatar
47R
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Posted - 2007.03.05 15:05:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Aelita on 05/03/2007 15:05:34
Fee based delivery would create regional markets, because in this case lowest price from seller wouldn't mean automatically cheapest buy for you. Why you would buy module cheper for 1% of price when you pay 5% more just because it need to be delivered across EVE universe. In this case you will buy for 1% more expensive module but closer to you.
I read many threads where global thingy was offered and many of you voiced against it with that argument it will kill local market, but that's not true.
I personnaly using Jita for shopping with my freighter just because I don't nneed to go anywhere else and I can fill freigter with all ships, modules what I do need and I don't care if anywhere else in universe they are sold for few isk less. Time are ISK. I will gladly pay any fee if I could buy and let it deliver to me.
Small percentage of people like to shopping visit many shops and buy curiosities. Sure global market will kill fun for this kind of players. These persons should answer yourself question, do you do same for your daily bread, milk even toilet paper? Sure not. So be it.
Personnaly I think global idea will lower load on server, because I know many producers who offer manufactured goods on more than one station. With global market they should offer it from one place. I think ingeneral global market should help with server load a lot to lower it.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.03.05 15:23:00 -
[10]
Slightly longer answer....
Jita is the way it is because people know 2 things about it:
a) I can always get everything I want there!
b) I can always sell my stuff there!
Until one (or both) of them changes, Jita will remain as it is!
With regional contracts, CCP was trying to force a regionalised market, but they missed the glaringly obvious part:
If people have to choose between doing 1 contracts search in Jita (with high chance of success), or 10 around empire space (with scant chance of success), they'll do the Jita search.
If a regionalised market is what CCP want (I'm not entirely sure it is), they have to make that currently non-existing market VISIBLE!
Contracts made regional markets even more invisible than with the old escrow system (though it had its many faults too).
To the ones talking about fee-based deliveries. It'll ONLY really work if it is instantaneous (which break the realism in the game), since most often when people buy stuff, they want it NOW. If people were willing to wait, they'd use courier, but they aren't.
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Aelita
Minmatar
47R
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Posted - 2007.03.05 15:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Aelita on 05/03/2007 15:31:26
Originally by: Kerfira
To the ones talking about fee-based deliveries. It'll ONLY really work if it is instantaneous (which break the realism in the game), since most often when people buy stuff, they want it NOW. If people were willing to wait, they'd use courier, but they aren't.
1st courier doesn't work, ship can be killed and you will get back only money no modules (ships).
2nd courier are limited to what you can put in.
3rd if someneone want things imediately it could buy and then fly to place where he did, buy. I didn't tell that delivery must be only one possible way how obtain goods, but it could be fee based option.
Global just mean you don't need go at place 1st to be able even buy. For contract you can just only look at, but you can't place or buy as it is outside your region. For market is even impossible to see nor buy or sell.
I just offering my solution to crowding and creating market hub. I think certain developers/game designer did think there is posibility to create more than one market hubs, preferably one per region. This tought is clearly wrong because economic can't be twisted by our will economic has stoned rules.
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Valator Uel
Caldari
Pax Minor Asylum
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.03.05 15:42:00 -
[12]
I really don't see a problem with Jita, infact I actually like it. When I'm searching for something this is the place to get it, and more often than not it is cheaper there. Sure there is a bit more lag than in other areas, but not as much as people make it to be. Besides, I only use Jita for shopping, not for mission running.
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Maam
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Posted - 2007.03.05 16:06:00 -
[13]
This is why Jita should be a market hub only.
Move all belts, all agents, everything else out of Jita.
Give Jita it's own dedicated server.
Job done. Jita retains it's hypermarket status, and there's less lag caused by people doing other things that can happily be done elsewhere.
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.05 16:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Maam
This is why Jita should be a market hub only.
Move all belts, all agents, everything else out of Jita.
Give Jita it's own dedicated server.
It's been on a dedicated node for over a year and the belts (maybe also the agents, I forget) were removed in January.
Quote:
Job done. Jita retains it's hypermarket status, and there's less lag caused by people doing other things that can happily be done elsewhere.
It didn't really make much difference from what I hear.
To the other poster who said you could always find what you want in Jita:Not true if you fly Amarr. I wanted to outfit a Maller last month and gave up. I could buy the Maller but when it came to turrets the choice was pitiful. Even with 42m skillpoints I couldn't get enough of the right type to utilise all my turrets.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Leonard Darwin
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Posted - 2007.03.05 16:26:00 -
[15]
Wouldn't the majority of lag be reduced if people could actually get out of Jita? Trying to get a freighter out of a station there takes forever because of the carnival outside where everyone is playing bumper cars. Add onto that corps camping right outside cause they know their enemy can't escape if they do make it out (in the offchance they don't do the usualy blackscreen load). Make more exits on stations so we can leave. People are going to keep using Jita until something better comes along. Too easy to get your stuff sold there that it's worth the freighter trip in, even at 40 clicks away.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 05/03/2007 17:03:35
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 05/03/2007 16:59:18
1. People sell a lot less items now because of opportunity costs
-cost (taxes, deposit which will not get returned if the contract doesnt get claimed -> deep cut into profit margin)
-slots (contract slots are limited, you have to train skills (~1-2d) to get 13 slots. You can train even more skills for corp slots, but that requires corp hangars, alt corps etc etc)
-item is locked up during contract duration (same as with escrow, but you now lose deposit every time you want to relist item to adjust price, transport it to different location, actually use it for a day etc)
this is bad because of:
-visibility
Rare items dont get found that easily. When someone wants "officer PDUs", he has to search for dozens of variations. Very few are stupid enough to do it for Jita, i dont know anyone who does such a query for empire space.
-other restrictions
You can no longer sell fully fitted ships, rigged ships, damaged items etc. You also dont seem to be able to sell illegal goods via contracts.
-> I stopped listing my high profile items (1-10b pricerange) on contracts.
-> I stopped trading in low end bulk faction (1-300m pricerange)
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Garrack
Caldari
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:15:00 -
[17]
Jita=Walmart
Both are filth. :)
I know that as a seller, I don't ever go to Jita, but as a buyer it's the first damned place I stop.
---
Singing: "I ain't got no siggy..." |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aelita
You can answer yourself why Jita-syndrome in EVE. CCP should apply global market, global contract system and delivery services for some fee. It will solve problems instantly. If developers are concerned about heavy load on SQL, then limit number of searches (even ISK fee per query) or allow only narow queries thru global system.
Globalising the contract system won't solve the "Jita problem". Escrow was a global system, and the "Jita problem" existed in a far worse way (finding anything that wasn't in Jita, Rens, or your region was impossible, because of the escrow spamming required to keep your items at the top of the list). The only thing that will solve the "Jita problem" is some smart, well financed cookies deciding to sell a decent package of goods somewhere else, and advertising the fact.
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Celeste Coeval
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:34:00 -
[19]
Seeing as Jita is ingrained as the place to go it has more competetive prices. Trust me I get 50% more on the faction price for some mods because folks just cant be arsed to travel 30 jumps to the land of lag.
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
-Albert Einstein |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:43:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/03/2007 17:40:47
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Am I missing something amazing about the land of infinate lag?
Pretty much every top end faction mod is for sale in Jita, and nowhere else! Now, surely not every single pilot who gets a top faction drop flies to Jita to sell it?
This leads to 3 possible conclusions:-
1. All pilots outside of The Forge area don't sell their faction drops.
or
2. All top faction drops happen in The Forge area.
or
3. The search facility in Contracts is a load of arse!
So, which is it?
You are wrong, people fly to Jita.
I buy most of my stuff in Rens, but I have alts in Jita to check the market and buy/sell via contracts there also. I do the transports with my industrial char in a blockade runner.
Btw. I'm based in Molden Heath/Derelik far away from Jita, but Jita is the main market for rarer and more valuable stuff.
___________
Muuuhhh !!! |
Arushia
Nova Labs
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pang Grohl
The only thing that will solve the "Jita problem" is some smart, well financed cookies deciding to sell a decent package of goods somewhere else, and advertising the fact.
Come to lovely, beautiful Oursulaert. And when you're done shopping, check out the exotic dancers.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.03.05 18:27:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 05/03/2007 18:24:14
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Globalising the contract system won't solve the "Jita problem". Escrow was a global system, and the "Jita problem" existed in a far worse way (finding anything that wasn't in Jita, Rens, or your region was impossible, because of the escrow spamming required to keep your items at the top of the list). The only thing that will solve the "Jita problem" is some smart, well financed cookies deciding to sell a decent package of goods somewhere else, and advertising the fact.
What has this to do with the global access problem? Nothing. It was a direct result of the pathetic design of escrow.
The problem is that with the current system, there is an INHERENT advantage in listing items in Jita that wasnt there before - visibility. It now matters where your item is - if its not in forge, a lot less people will see it. This is a direct result of the system.
Being able to search and claim items globaly will remove this inherent disadvantage of other regions. It will not make Jita go away (destroying Jita is bad for the game -> even more tedium, work and downtime preparing to have fun as you try to get a fitting for a ship). But it will remove the disadvantage other regions have compared to Jita.
The system succeeded in making some markets regionalized - i no longer care what happens in the outer regions, as im not going to place a trading alt in 0.0. However, noone else seems to care either.
What you all Jita haters fail to realize is that a slot-based system automatically leads to tradehubs. When you have a limited amount of sell orders / contracts, you will have to maximise profitability. When selling an item not only ties up capital, but costs you money (deposit) and takes up a rare slot, you will have to make sure that it actually sells. With escrow, i listed stuff that i wasnt actually actively selling just in case someone wanted it and was willing to pay the premium that would convince me selling it. Now i dont even list the stuff im actively selling.
If you want people to sell outside of tradehubs, make sure its worth their
1. Time (20m ISK per hour grinding level 4 missions ... make sure all the clicks they make hauling the stuff to you are worth more, or noone will bother)
2. Slots (You have 13-16 Contract slots per alt. Corp contracts are only really viable in special alt corps)
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Zegox
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Posted - 2007.03.05 18:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Zegox on 05/03/2007 18:31:32
Originally by: Garrack
Jita=Walmart
More like a swap-meet in space, where you can find anything you need but stand a good chance of getting mugged on your way to the parking lot 
Jita is the trade hub of the EvE universe - no place else even comes close to the market liquidity you will find there. You can find a ready buyer or seller for just about anything, and usually at the most stable and reasonable prices anywhere. Some might prefer to hunt for good deals in a backwater region, but usually its not worth the time. Like it or not, we all have to make a run to Jita once in awhile to swap our mins/drops for stuff we need.
Its too bad CCP can't come up with something more innovative for an in-game trade center though, and is definately an area that could see some improvement in a future update.
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babylonstew
Caldari
Caldari Scouting and Intel Group
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.05 19:01:00 -
[24]
its mostly down to contracts
why spend an hour checking every region when you can just check the forge
------
*snip* please keep sigs EVE-related. Contact [email protected] if you have any further questions - Karass Sayfo
CCp nerfed my sig and all i got was this crummy message ^^^
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Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.05 19:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 05/03/2007 18:24:14
Originally by: Pang Grohl
Globalising the contract system won't solve the "Jita problem". Escrow was a global system, and the "Jita problem" existed in a far worse way (finding anything that wasn't in Jita, Rens, or your region was impossible, because of the escrow spamming required to keep your items at the top of the list). The only thing that will solve the "Jita problem" is some smart, well financed cookies deciding to sell a decent package of goods somewhere else, and advertising the fact.
What has this to do with the global access problem? Nothing. It was a direct result of the pathetic design of escrow.
The problem is that with the current system, there is an INHERENT advantage in listing items in Jita that wasnt there before - visibility. It now matters where your item is - if its not in forge, a lot less people will see it. This is a direct result of the system.
Being able to search and claim items globaly will remove this inherent disadvantage of other regions. It will not make Jita go away (destroying Jita is bad for the game -> even more tedium, work and downtime preparing to have fun as you try to get a fitting for a ship). But it will remove the disadvantage other regions have compared to Jita.
The system succeeded in making some markets regionalized - i no longer care what happens in the outer regions, as im not going to place a trading alt in 0.0. However, noone else seems to care either.
<condense>With escrow I could list as much stuff as I cared to essentially for free (850 isk). With contracts I'm now limited to what I can list, and it costs me something (at least 10k isk depending on what I'm listing).</condense>
If you want people to sell outside of tradehubs, make sure its worth their
1. Time (20m ISK per hour grinding level 4 missions ... make sure all the clicks they make hauling the stuff to you are worth more, or noone will bother)
2. Slots (You have 13-16 Contract slots per alt. Corp contracts are only really viable in special alt corps)
The post is about the "Jita Problem", not global access in the Contracts system.
The "Jita Problem" has nothing to do with the contract system, and everything to do with people's habits.
Globalising the Contracts system will not change the fact that people believe that they will get the best deal in Jita. It will just make it easier to reinforce this belief. The only thing that will change that belief is people willing to make an effort a offering a reasonable selection of goods somewhere else, and making that offering blatantly obvious.
You say that it matters now, if your goods are in Jita or not, as if it didn't matter with escrow. It doesn't matter anymore now than it did with escrow. Why? With escrow you had 3 viewing choices, what's most recent in my local system, what's most recent in my local region, or what's most recent globally. Because of the inherent problem with escrow, you couldn't effectively look in remote region with out going there. Now, people are used to the only stuff convenient to look at being in Jita, so they only look a what's in Jita. With contracts you have 3 viewing choices, my local system, my local region, some remote region. If one chooses Jita for their "some other region", the difference between Contracts and Escrow is effectively nil, when it comes to visibility.
I know you can't claim contracts in a remote region like you could with escrows, but that's only a limiting factor when you compare shopping in Jita. If you wanted to shop in any other remote region, you had to go there to even see what was available. The difference between having to go to a remote region to find an escrow, and having to go to remote region to claim a contract is effectively nil.
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.05 19:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: babylonstew
its mostly down to contracts
why spend an hour checking every region when you can just check the forge
So, in your mind The Forge in the contract system = Jita in the escrow system.
Your belief that you'll only find what you're looking for in the Forge, has nothing to do with how the contract system works.
To be fair I'm not saying that your belief is incorrect. I'm saying that the contract system is not the source of that belief.
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Dread Operative
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.03.05 19:28:00 -
[27]
Why do malls/outlets/shopping-centers exist in the center of urban areas instead of in the middle of a corn field?
_________________________________________________________
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.05 19:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dread Operative
Why do malls/outlets/shopping-centers exist in the center of urban areas instead of in the middle of a corn field?
Corn doesn't grow well in a carpark or under artificial lighting?
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Amphetaminer
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Posted - 2007.03.05 20:03:00 -
[29]
there is no "jita problem" only reason you go there is to buy or sell.. ofcourse its laggy with all those people.. any place with that many ppl is laggy.
Its great to have a place where you buy/sell your stuff fast and at decent prices.
Almost every game has a spot like this where all the merchants come together.
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Rudy Metallo
Minmatar
G.H.O.S.T
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Posted - 2007.03.05 21:10:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 05/03/2007 21:06:43
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
they bring their faction drops to jita because
a.) they can buy all stuff they need for their hunting grounds, while selling their own stuff at the same place.
b.) as jita has lots of customers and also a history for faction trades, it's easy to sell quick for reasonable prices instead of waiting for a buyer in one of the off-the-mainroute regions.
maybe there are more reasons .. but those are imho the major ones.
That. The only other regions that you'll find a good bit of faction gear for sale in is in heavy carbear regions (Like Domain) and heavy PvP regions (like Placid).
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