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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
864
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Posted - 2016.08.09 06:50:24 -
[61] - Quote
I did the Blood Raiders event and kind of enjoyed it. The accelerator rewards were pretty sweet and fairly easy to acquire. I also did the Frostline event and kind of didn't really enjoy it, until a PLEX dropped for me and I got all excited again. I took one look at this Serpentis/Angels event, saw the mechanics and the rewards and thought: meh. I only run whatever sites spawn in my wormhole, for no other reason than to clear up the Overview. I have no idea if I'm doing the *right* ones or not and honestly don't care. Now, this is from a guy that really loves flying Serpentis and Angel Cartel subcaps.
But seriously, for the absurd build costs of a Vehement, I could buy two Moros alts and ships for them. Two Moros will still out-DPS one Vehement.
I agree with the OP. The price should be determined by the BPC rarity. Some unique parts not required for a regular Moros, sure why not. But just a straight 20x modifier on the parts list for a Moros? That's simply being lazy beyond words.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
210
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Posted - 2016.08.09 08:04:41 -
[62] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? CCP sucks in event making.
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Rawthorm
D.M.T inc Circle-Of-Two
115
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Posted - 2016.08.09 08:46:37 -
[63] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? CCP sucks in event making.
Tell me about it, I still have some event loot from the 2013 Sansha event that never ended up being used. I suspect it was one of those events that CCP would rather we all forget about given the server issues that plagued it. |

Arkoth 24
Phayder
210
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Posted - 2016.08.09 08:59:33 -
[64] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Tell me about it, I still have some event loot from the 2013 Sansha event that never ended up being used. Is there anything for sale?
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Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1453
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Posted - 2016.08.09 09:10:58 -
[65] - Quote
I don't think the OP is considering CCP objectives correctly. CCP wanted an event that would engage players and what better way to engage players than give them a 'good' chance in dropping a faction capital BPC worth potentially billions?
The problem is they don't want a bazillion of these capitals flying around.
They also wanted an event that redistributes wealth from the richer players and something that would stimulate the resource gathering and manufacturing industries.
What they have done is actually quite clever.
1. Players that actually receive the BPCs are going to wet themselves, despite the fact that they are never going to build the thing. They are simply going to sell the BPC.
2. Players that buy the BPC are going to wet themselves. Even in BPC form they have something of a status symbol and arguably an investment.
3. Players that actually build the thing are going to wet themselves. They are the elite, look at me. But very few if any are ever going to use them in combat, so they won't unbalance the game.
4. If one ever does go into combat, players who shoot it are going to wet themselves. What a great KM they will be number 386th on.
5. Miners and others resource gatherers are going to benefit from every one of these ships that get built. They won't notice and continue whining about being ganked, but it will be another factor pushing up the price of their minerals another 0.02 cents.
Where is the lose? |

Yokai Mitsuhide
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
7084
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Posted - 2016.08.09 11:28:31 -
[66] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.
This game would not and can not exist without PvE whether you like it or not. |

Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
31957
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Posted - 2016.08.09 11:30:50 -
[67] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:CCP should have kept the materials for the Vehement the same as the materials for the Moros, with two extra material needed: 500 full skill injectors and 10,000 (capsuleer) corpses. The injectors to keep the PLEX sales going, and the corpses to promote the PVP that these ships will never see. I have long hoped for biological "bug ships" (See the "Lexx" series) that needed to be fed on corpses. But that apparently would have to be a different game for being way too outside of Eve cannon. Just the way it is. You can do that with seekers. When you do it at a Jove observatory you can even see ... ... how they then shoot lasers at it, possibly repairing it with the corpse.
Or maybe storing it. I don't know.
It shoots two differently coloured lasers, one at a time. A blue one and an orange one. One moving towards, one moving backwards.
Trying to deliver a few dozen corpses though is pure pain...
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
455
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:27:08 -
[68] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:
The sites are boring, pathetic actually and yet on the o7 show we are addressed like kindergarten children with the marvels of what await us in this highly anticipated event, that engages and exploits those of an addictive or aspergers personality type. This "carrot on a stick" approach would be fine if the carrot at the end was worthwhile...so this bring me onto why I am actually pretty livid with CCP and before I proceed I will state, I stand nothing to gain from CCP bowing to my next line of thought, no isk benefits, no power or virtual status, I am just struggling to understand design decisions in a game I once regarded as tilting towards folks who enjoy spreadsheets in space and those who like to blow up what the spreadsheeters produce. So here goes.
The Vehement.
**** you CCP. The build costs of this thing make no sense to anyone even those with a fat in game wallet. Is this ship aimed at pilots who drop PLEX to buy capitals or what? Because it certainly isn't for the industrialists who have to build this over hyped piece of crap. In defense I have heard players say, "but pew pew", "it's great for anti-tackle", "it's just meant to be a shiny". Ok.... This isn't an aesthetic item, it's a functional one, yes it pew pew's, yes its great for anti tackle....but if you are tackled in this you can be sure supers are coming and you are about to be killmail whored, so it's just meant to be a shiny???? well then why not like every other shiny object in the game does it require 7.4 untanked freighters to ship the Capital Armor Plates? so let's look at the build materials shall we?
It's kind of funny how someone can complain about being addressed like a kindergartener, but at the same unironically uses terms like "pew pew". |

Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2913
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:22:42 -
[69] - Quote
Agreed. 30B is utterly ridiculous for a dread. 10B would be better for this. Or perhaps a unique role to receive reps in siege.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
651
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:27:46 -
[70] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:It's kind of funny how someone can complain about being addressed like a kindergartener, but at the same unironically uses terms like "pew pew". What's wrong with that? It's commonly accepted vernacular in these forums as a phrase generally referring to a myriad of things centered on the act of shooting. I've seen it said dozens of times, but never have I seen someone so petty as to jump upon the phrase and passive-aggressively slight the poster.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
456
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Posted - 2016.08.10 08:15:46 -
[71] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:It's kind of funny how someone can complain about being addressed like a kindergartener, but at the same unironically uses terms like "pew pew". What's wrong with that? It's commonly accepted vernacular in these forums as a phrase generally referring to a myriad of things centered on the act of shooting. I've seen it said dozens of times, but never have I seen someone so petty as to jump upon the phrase and passive-aggressively demean the poster.
Just because something is used often, that doesn't make it less childish.
Otherwise this forum wouldn't need a word filter, since all those obscenities filtered out by it would be perfectly fine, since they're used "often" and are "commonly accepted" as obscenities.  |

Arkoth 24
Phayder
220
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Posted - 2016.08.10 08:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Just because something is used often, that doesn't make it less childish. Just get a dictionary and try to find out what "irony" is. Like an adult.
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Skettis Arthie
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.08.10 09:37:19 -
[73] - Quote
Trollers just started doing their thing ... |

Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
45
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Posted - 2016.08.12 15:14:32 -
[74] - Quote
well, I can see that isk/time/resource sink could be a good thing for the game, but I think half assed attempt at lore with 5 minute effort would have appeased the OP.
They could've made the build requirements into something like 'Serpentis Capital Armor Plate', 'Serpentis Capital Jump Drive", etc, Make the BPCs drop from rats/cans/data/relic sites to please the exploration crowd and put some simple sentence like "Serpentis Capital Armor Plate trades material efficiency for sheer performance. The production technique used is highly wasteful, but the super compressed materials give these armor plates extraordinary strength compared to more conventional armor plates used for Capital Ships", etc, on the BPC.
I think it's this lack of even trying for any 'lore' sense is what angers OP, which I can sympathise with.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
114
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Posted - 2016.08.12 15:33:31 -
[75] - Quote
I will write a report about my overall thoughts about the event in a different post. It had many many positives.
One thing to note is that CCP have now lowered the Vehement build costs, whether that was the result of this post or not (or the others on different forums) is not for me to say, but it is important to note the Super and Titan build costs remain the same, yet the issue is the same for them as it is the Vehement. Does this mean that CCP has shifted on the Vehement because it in particular has been targeted by the community, that of course would be more focused on the Vehement simply due to the number of people that obtained a BPC? I don't know the answer to this question, but it is arbitrary that the Vehement got a 30% build cost reduction and the Vendetta and Vanquisher did not.
I would like to hear from CCP themselves as to the rationale behind the excessive build requirements of these ships. Considering the work that is gonna go into building them, I think and explanation as to the process by which they derived the 20x build reqs of the the t1 equivalents for these ships, is not a big ask. Or even better for them to take on board some of the suggestions made by players in this thread to make the ships more lore friendly and/or replace some of the parts with PI or even the junk that now piles up that we used to build Data interfaces from? There are so many creative ways to go about engaging the community in building these ships and it seems to have been a missed opportunity and a lazy decision to just inflate the build costs.
CCP if you wanna keep your playerbase, please don't forget (despite what the forums my lead one to believe) that eve's playerbase is one of the most intelligent collections of gamers in the world and appeasing their desire to have things add up will ensure you have a solid base of players for the next decade to come. We like fiddling, we like tinkering, we like working out difficult problems and creating them. We like the sandbox, we want different shapes of spades and buckets, not more sand to pile up. These ships are boring in their build costs, it's ABC minerals en mass, piles of sand... |

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
114
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Posted - 2016.08.12 15:34:19 -
[76] - Quote
Toobo wrote:well, I can see that isk/time/resource sink could be a good thing for the game, but I think half assed attempt at lore with 5 minute effort would have appeased the OP.
They could've made the build requirements into something like 'Serpentis Capital Armor Plate', 'Serpentis Capital Jump Drive", etc, Make the BPCs drop from rats/cans/data/relic sites to please the exploration crowd and put some simple sentence like "Serpentis Capital Armor Plate trades material efficiency for sheer performance. The production technique used is highly wasteful, but the super compressed materials give these armor plates extraordinary strength compared to more conventional armor plates used for Capital Ships", etc, on the BPC.
I think it's this lack of even trying for any 'lore' sense is what angers OP, which I can sympathise with.
You nailed it.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
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Posted - 2016.08.12 15:42:46 -
[77] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? ***** expensive and OP is a peasant.
Price is not the issue, stupid build reqs is. I don;t care if the ships end up costing 1 trillion isk, a ship the same size as a Moros should not require x20 the parts. Simple.
Lords without peasants command nothing but weeds and dirt. |

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
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Posted - 2016.08.12 15:49:58 -
[78] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.
Copy and paste responses only get you so far with building a reputation in eve. You don't know me. I am an alt. I have embraced more of eve than you, clearly by your limited scope of reply. Perhaps you should learn that there is no PVP content without PVE folks. I think you are mistaking EvE for an FPS, where all the materials of war spontaneously appear before you?
" PvE is for single-player gamers, really"
Revis Owen thinks his toys appear by magic in Jita. |

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
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Posted - 2016.08.12 15:51:55 -
[79] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote: But your assumption is that these costs will stay static despite the fact that we currently only have prices and drop rates based on the event. It could be that CCP plans to bring things inline post event with their initial goal being high cost to balance the open nature of the event.
I think my assumption is pretty valid. CCP is well practiced in douche bag maneuvers, but I cant see them waiting until after some are built to make the cost reasonable. If I was that guy that had just laid out 30+ billion to build one, only to find CCP drops the build cost a week later down to normal dread levels I'd be pretty pissed and with good reason.
This one is easy, reimburse these players. It's very easy. |

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
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Posted - 2016.08.12 16:04:03 -
[80] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:
Which is not what built this games community originally...
You nailed it. The community that's left is sick right now. CCP has the leadership and authority to fix it without any nerfs or changes in mechanics and covering it up with new content. The game is better than ever but it's wasted on the players. But the problem appears internal to their ranks and a problem must be admitted to before it can be addressed.
Agreed. The game is in the best state it has been for years, bittervets are coming back in droves and the bitterness is slinking away in some of them. I am excited by the new stargates and citadels and new space to explore on the horizon and the tool's we are being handed to truely sever ties with NPC's in high sec, Jita I'm looking at you.
This community sometimes knows what it wants and needs and sometimes it's like an idiot sibling that just wants to annoy you because,... well just because.
The UI is slick, the Tactical camera is the muts nuts, citadels are just sexy as hell, retribution made criminal activity very interesting, in short a slew of well executed fixes and developments is steering eve towards the place we all sort of wanted it to be in. CCP doesn't seem to realise that the key to it's success isn't making new games or pumping as much money as they can out of eve, but by giving he players the respect they deserve (and in many cases do not deserve) and listening to their concerns. They have proven time and time again that they can do this, through community pressure. But they stray again and again, why? I think it's human tbh.
As for the sick community. This community is sick. In some cases it's down right toxic. The aggression towards the carebears that generate all the fun toys for people is absurd, and as soon as someone stumbles into these forums that isn't a pr0 they get torn a new one. Back in the day, these forums were abuzz with posts, alliances were made and broken in CAOD, debates raged for page after page. Now I sometimes feel like players have a notepad open with the most used responses and copy and paste with minor adjustments to get their eve forum likes.
"Eve is a PVP game" Yes it is, anyone who has said this and ever ratted, mined, missioned, sold a single item on the market, or engaged in any activity that is not aggression towards another pilot is a hypocrite. Eve is a PVE game with non-consenual PVP, describing it anything but ignores most of what happens in eve. |
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wangsunan
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.08.14 00:20:13 -
[81] - Quote
bump this to let ccp notice it |

Kaely Tanniss
Bite the pillow
656
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Posted - 2016.08.14 05:05:58 -
[82] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Look, seriously. If you have better ideas, hash it out with the CSM reps. While some good could possibly come out of this thread, talking to people who can actually do things is going to be better. This is EVE. Complaining in the wrong place will simply get you mocked more often than not. I'm an '06 player.....pretty sure I know this already, a forum is a forum. a dialogue starts somewhere and here is as good a place as any, I can take the toxic elements in the community in my stride, but please don't assume this is simply a whine or a complaint, it's a critique. As for better ideas, do I really have to point to the hundreds if not thousands of other community ideas that are better than a reskin, a quick stats edit and a tour around the graphics department. This isn't hard, CCP designed everything else we love in this game, this is damn lazy. I am someone who solves problems, I am not a designer of ships, but I am pretty sure you can't call the Vehement a designed ship, it's a reskin...
Then doesn't said "critique" belong in the features and ideas forum? 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17885
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Posted - 2016.08.14 13:27:02 -
[83] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? New events, re-balances (dumbing-down) and new shinies are aimed at players who are more willing/likely to buy PLEX. Which is not what built this games community originally, I don't mind the micro transactions, I don't mind the pointless shiny things, I do mind the enforced grind, the lazy design and I expect so much more from this games studio.
I do not think this word means what you think it means.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
120
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Posted - 2016.08.16 08:03:41 -
[84] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? New events, re-balances (dumbing-down) and new shinies are aimed at players who are more willing/likely to buy PLEX. Which is not what built this games community originally, I don't mind the micro transactions, I don't mind the pointless shiny things, I do mind the enforced grind, the lazy design and I expect so much more from this games studio. I do not think this word means what you think it means.
That is surely a matter of perspective. The route to one of these bpc is a long one, so is the route to building one, it is an arbitrarily long process to build one of these ships, an enforced grind. If you don't see it that way, then each to their own :)
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
120
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Posted - 2016.08.16 08:06:41 -
[85] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Then doesn't said "critique" belong in the features and ideas forum? 
For sure it is getting to that stage, but thanks for the prompt. If the mods felt it did, it would have been moved already, we are on page 5. But I think you are right, and it's time to start thinking about a concise set of suggestions. |
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