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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
6
   |
Posted - 2016.07.09 20:42:09 -
[1] - Quote
I have played this game since 2006, I have done nearly everything this game has to offer and yet I still see plenty left on the horizon to entertain myself. Lately...I feel like CCP is losing their way with regard to some of their in game developments and treating us like idiots.
I have spent an awful lot of my time in this game doing exploration content and have done since they launched the ability to probe out the old Radar/Ladar/Gravimetric/Magnetometric signatures. I enjoyed the difficulty of probing out specific sites and CCP have slowly made this particular side of the game more and more accessible to players, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly has taken the punch out of it as a "profession" and it has now become more of a must have for all players. This is reflected in the price crash of nearly all deadspace and faction modules, again not necessarily a bad thing. I have nothing against increasing supply to meet demand. I can lament these changes and the death of exploration as a community and something to hold the interest of older players, but I am sure that this content is fun for newbros, even if the older lot it's either a force of habit or just so familiar that it no longer feels like exploration. The channel Exploration is a shadow of it's former self, although I have to say people start gabbing in there when a new event comes out, which bring me to the main objective of this post, the Shadow of the Serpentis event (I will elaborate on more exploration content in another post).
CCP is taking advantage of it's community in ways that I feel are bordering on plain outrageous, which is ironic seeing as I have defended CCP many many times in their decisions before and supported their overall strategies for new features, not all of them but many of them. The site "Serpentis Shipyard and Research Facility" is a good case point on this issue. You warp in scramble amongst other players or solo for a "free bait can" on the undock of a Serpentis owned Fortizar. Seriously? You are baiting us on a free can?
So what's in the can? Chips to build Serp capitals, some implants whose price is inevitably falling fast as they are overseeded and some points for completing the site that contribute towards gaining one of the Bronze, Silver or Gold containers. This challenge is the only one that is persistent, meaning that it's always in your list of objectives to complete for the event, some folks have already gained the grand prize of the Vehement BPC and assorted other trivialities that are essentially worthless considering you could have made more isk and got more SP from working for a skill injector as others have already stated in other threads on these forums. All of this pushes me a little towards frustration as it just seems like tat to occupy players away from isk making activities and pushing players to buy PLEX to continue their need for new items or indeed subscriptions. The sites are boring, pathetic actually and yet on the o7 show we are addressed like kindergarten children with the marvels of what await us in this highly anticipated event, that engages and exploits those of an addictive or aspergers personality type. This "carrot on a stick" approach would be fine if the carrot at the end was worthwhile...so this bring me onto why I am actually pretty livid with CCP and before I proceed I will state, I stand nothing to gain from CCP bowing to my next line of thought, no isk benefits, no power or virtual status, I am just struggling to understand design decisions in a game I once regarded as tilting towards folks who enjoy spreadsheets in space and those who like to blow up what the spreadsheeters produce. So here goes.
The Vehement.
**** you CCP. The build costs of this thing make no sense to anyone even those with a fat in game wallet. Is this ship aimed at pilots who drop PLEX to buy capitals or what? Because it certainly isn't for the industrialists who have to build this over hyped piece of crap. In defense I have heard players say, "but pew pew", "it's great for anti-tackle", "it's just meant to be a shiny". Ok.... This isn't an aesthetic item, it's a functional one, yes it pew pew's, yes its great for anti tackle....but if you are tackled in this you can be sure supers are coming and you are about to be killmail whored, so it's just meant to be a shiny???? well then why not like every other shiny object in the game does it require 7.4 untanked freighters to ship the Capital Armor Plates? so let's look at the build materials shall we?
Moros Vehement
7 Capital Propulsion Engine 140
37 Capital Turret Hardpoint 740
6 Capital Sensor Cluster 120
24 Capital Armor Plates 480
7 Capital Capacitor Battery 140
13 Capital Power Generator 260
11 Capital Shield Emitter 220
9 Capital Jump Drive 180
6 Capital Computer System 120
13 Capital Construction Parts 260
28 Capital Siege Array 560
16 Capital Ship Maintenance Bay 320
8 Capital Corporate Hangar Bay 160
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
6
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 20:42:23 -
[2] - Quote
So people have been asking for new Capitals for years and in particular faction capitals and the best you can come up with is a Moros mesh with a new skin a couple of modified stats and putting a parts multiplier in of x20 on the parts? Are you serious? As someone who has spent time modifying values of items in games, like the Elderscrolls series I feel that you are taking the Michael out of the eve community? How much did this "project reward" cost you to make? 5 minutes on the stats and a day or two from the art department on the skin? Now you have 1000's of player duking it out in sites that require them to get deep vein thrombosis in order to achieve, to get a BPC that only an industrial alliance could take the time to build.
The argument could be made that this ship is a status symbol for those who has the isk to flash around to buy one, but my argument isnGÇÖt really focused on these people, itGÇÖs the builders of this ship. This ship is too much work for its retail value. But this isnGÇÖt even really the thing that annoys me most about it, itGÇÖs about the same ******* size as a Moros, with x20 parts of everything shouldnGÇÖt it occupy x20 the space, have x20 the HP, x20 the everything it has? Instead itGÇÖs just 20 times the work to build the stupid thing, this is cheap CCP and you know it, this ship will already be in excess in price of the Moros if it has the SAME BUILD COST, simply due to the rarity of the BPC, this feels like you are sucking the life out of the mineral producers for the sake of it, to absorb more player time towards objectives and keep people playing, when in fact you arenGÇÖt keeping them playing you are disenchanting them.
Simply from the point of view of someone who likes things that add up, IGÇÖve overlooked, as has the player base, facts and figures that donGÇÖt make sense in eve, itGÇÖs part of the rights of passage of playing, some little quirks you just accept. This ship makes no physical sense whatsoever (IBT internet spaceships are more like submarines crowd). Is the factory that produces a Serpentis Faction Capital just ill equipped to produce these hulls, does 19 in every 20 parts get written off in the production cycle? If so why? WhatGÇÖs the point? Why make this thing hard to build considering the boring hell grind of collecting GÇ£free bait canGÇ¥ on Serpentis undocks or later the LP store?
CCP this is just plain lazy. Sort it out!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16735
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Posted - 2016.07.09 20:50:29 -
[3] - Quote
Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
6
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Posted - 2016.07.09 20:57:14 -
[4] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?
No. You are as lazy as they are. Forum whore
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Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
1245
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Posted - 2016.07.09 20:57:28 -
[5] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?
I'll try.
"Sites are boring. New caps are too expensive and too hard to make. It's only a reskin anyways with not enough improvements in stats to be worth the massive increase in build costs. Wah." |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
6
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:01:21 -
[6] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? I'll try. "Sites are boring. New caps are too expensive and too hard to make. It's only a reskin anyways with not enough improvements in stats to be worth the massive increase in build costs. Wah."
You get a cookie. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8279
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:02:24 -
[7] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?
New events, re-balances (dumbing-down) and new shinies are aimed at players who are more willing/likely to buy PLEX.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
10193
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:03:46 -
[8] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?
Something something...
... the Serpentis event is boring...
... something...
... you can make more ISK per hour doing something else for the same amount of effort...
... rabble rabble hiss spit...
... some numbers...
... INDIGNATION...
... Faction Capitals should not have material costs higher than a regular dred because it is reasonable for anyone but the wealthiest to build them...
... Fudge you CCP.
Did I get it right?
How did you Veterans start?
The Mustache and Beard Thread
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
6
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:04:47 -
[9] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? New events, re-balances (dumbing-down) and new shinies are aimed at players who are more willing/likely to buy PLEX.
Which is not what built this games community originally, I don't mind the micro transactions, I don't mind the pointless shiny things, I do mind the enforced grind, the lazy design and I expect so much more from this games studio.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
6
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:06:22 -
[10] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? Something something... ... the Serpentis event is boring... ... something... ... you can make more ISK per hour doing something else for the same amount of effort... ... rabble rabble hiss spit... ... some numbers... ... INDIGNATION... ... Faction Capitals should not have material costs higher than a regular dred because it is unreasonable for anyone but the wealthiest to build them... ... Fudge you CCP. Did I get it right?
No. You clearly skim read.
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Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
1245
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:07:11 -
[11] - Quote
Look, seriously. If you have better ideas, hash it out with the CSM reps. While some good could possibly come out of this thread, talking to people who can actually do things is going to be better. This is EVE. Complaining in the wrong place will simply get you mocked more often than not. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16735
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:08:02 -
[12] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? Something something... ... the Serpentis event is boring... ... something... ... you can make more ISK per hour doing something else for the same amount of effort... ... rabble rabble hiss spit... ... some numbers... ... INDIGNATION... ... Faction Capitals should not have material costs higher than a regular dred because it is unreasonable for anyone but the wealthiest to build them... ... Fudge you CCP. Did I get it right?
Pretty much, (i did read it im just poking the baby)
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
11
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:08:08 -
[13] - Quote
It's exactly the apathy towards these things displayed in the responses thus far that lead to more dumbing down. |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
11
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:13:31 -
[14] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Look, seriously. If you have better ideas, hash it out with the CSM reps. While some good could possibly come out of this thread, talking to people who can actually do things is going to be better. This is EVE. Complaining in the wrong place will simply get you mocked more often than not.
I'm an '06 player.....pretty sure I know this already, a forum is a forum. a dialogue starts somewhere and here is as good a place as any, I can take the toxic elements in the community in my stride, but please don't assume this is simply a whine or a complaint, it's a critique. As for better ideas, do I really have to point to the hundreds if not thousands of other community ideas that are better than a reskin, a quick stats edit and a tour around the graphics department. This isn't hard, CCP designed everything else we love in this game, this is damn lazy. I am someone who solves problems, I am not a designer of ships, but I am pretty sure you can't call the Vehement a designed ship, it's a reskin...
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16735
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:13:59 -
[15] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:It's exactly the apathy towards these things displayed in the responses thus far that lead to more dumbing down.
Pick your battles, there are a myriad of legitimate other things you could have a go at ccp for but crying about faction caps being a rich mans toy is silly, particularly given the rarity of the only other faction cap,
This was to be expected.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
13
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 21:17:20 -
[16] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:It's exactly the apathy towards these things displayed in the responses thus far that lead to more dumbing down. Pick your battles, there are a myriad of legitimate other things you could have a go at ccp for but crying about faction caps being a rich mans toy is silly, particularly given the rarity of the only other faction cap, This was to be expected.
The only other faction cap is far rarer than the Vehement in terms of BPC already and is also far easier on the build requirements, that's crazy no? A faction super (nearly said mothership bwahahaha) is easier to build and cheaper than a dread.
Just to clarify I am picking my battles, a community collectively fights all the battles, I am choosing this one, it's not your first choice, but it is mine. |
Buliki
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 22:17:10 -
[17] - Quote
I feel your pain sister Celeste
I think they don't care about the money because in 5 minutes I could think of about 20 ways CCP could make more money. And I'm sure some of their employees can see it also... This is an international dumbing down by design. My guess is they don't have a choice to keep it/make it stupid.
That Futurama meme comes to mind... SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! But no. We can't have nice things. We are Slaves |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Exiliar Syndicate
192
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 22:31:12 -
[18] - Quote
Well, pretty much what I think.
I just dont think my opinion changes anything 
I hoped the event could actually be interesting for me from all the marketing around it - but from the first look, its a waste of time for me. Nothing special, interesting or useful coming out of it. |
Duke Amarrian
Tesla Aerospace Industries
1
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 06:59:37 -
[19] - Quote
I dont know why people are complaining. I've had to part my main account for this event because i'm finding the loot to be so god dam sweet i'm enjoying it more than my wormhole adventures.
it could possibly be time that other players dont have not sure. Let alone the BP for the gold can is awesome. I"m already seeing stupid people selling it beflow 10 bill and manufacturers are pissing themselves laughing at the cost. Come end of the event and when the BP's will be scarse I"m going to bust a few wallets open and make them pay for my time.
CCP have given you profits like mad and choices. Don't blame them if you are selling stuff dirt cheap because obviously your acting is desperate measures and are not playing the economical game of patience to reap the rewards come end of event.
Sorry but i've already made billions from this event and it hasn't been a full week. Seriously can you blame ccp for that ??? |
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
103
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 08:36:41 -
[20] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Look, seriously. If you have better ideas, hash it out with the CSM reps. While some good could possibly come out of this thread, talking to people who can actually do things is going to be better. This is EVE. Complaining in the wrong place will simply get you mocked more often than not.
Going to the CSM can't hurt, but we have plenty of cases where player recommendations fell on deaf ears.
I'd include the 118.6 carrier "rebalance" with that.
On the one hand, I am put off by what appears to be shoddy releases and knee-jerk balancing. On the other hand, I see the painstaking effort and clear player involvement in other releases.
But that's what I get for subscribing to an indie-cult mmo like the vegan foodtruck loving hipster that I am. |
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
358
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Posted - 2016.07.10 10:35:37 -
[21] - Quote
I feel your pain. I usually get carpal tunnel after that much typing.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
33
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Posted - 2016.07.10 11:19:33 -
[22] - Quote
Duke Amarrian wrote:I dont know why people are complaining. I've had to part my main account for this event because i'm finding the loot to be so god dam sweet i'm enjoying it more than my wormhole adventures.
it could possibly be time that other players dont have not sure. Let alone the BP for the gold can is awesome. I"m already seeing stupid people selling it beflow 10 bill and manufacturers are pissing themselves laughing at the cost. Come end of the event and when the BP's will be scarse I"m going to bust a few wallets open and make them pay for my time.
CCP have given you profits like mad and choices. Don't blame them if you are selling stuff dirt cheap because obviously your acting is desperate measures and are not playing the economical game of patience to reap the rewards come end of event.
Sorry but i've already made billions from this event and it hasn't been a full week. Seriously can you blame ccp for that ???
The loot is fine, I made a good amount on the implants that drop, the BPC is sweet indeed, it's just excessive in it's build requirements, it's nonsensical. If you continue to support unrealistic build requirements for stuff and accept this ridiculous material cost of the Vehement, you open the door for worse.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
33
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 11:24:10 -
[23] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Look, seriously. If you have better ideas, hash it out with the CSM reps. While some good could possibly come out of this thread, talking to people who can actually do things is going to be better. This is EVE. Complaining in the wrong place will simply get you mocked more often than not. Going to the CSM can't hurt, but we have plenty of cases where player recommendations fell on deaf ears. I'd include the 118.6 carrier "rebalance" with that. On the one hand, I am put off by what appears to be shoddy releases and knee-jerk balancing. On the other hand, I see the painstaking effort and clear player involvement in other releases. But that's what I get for subscribing to an indie-cult mmo like the vegan foodtruck loving hipster that I am.
I can agree with all of your points, contradiction isn't something to shy away from, most complex issues are contradictory, the build cost of the Vehement isn't painstaking, it's 5 mins in the item editor. |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
33
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 11:25:28 -
[24] - Quote
The price of the Vehement should be controlled by the scarcity of the BPC like every other single faction item in the game, not on unrealistic build req's. |
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations
Brothers of Tangra
6
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 14:34:55 -
[25] - Quote
Can someone explain to me why OP mentioning they are an 06 player is an advantage when complaining about the build cost of half a titan?
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
42
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Posted - 2016.07.10 14:43:30 -
[26] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:Can someone explain to me why OP mentioning they are an 06 player is an advantage when complaining about the build cost of half a titan?
I can explain that for you, seeing as I am in the best position to explain my own words, rather than you asking for support from trolls.
I am not sure why you added your own meaning into what I said, I never suggested my age was any sort of advantage. It's simply a statement intended to convey that my post has 10 years of eve experience behind it. Perhaps if you were less pedantic and capable of addressing the core points of my post you wouldn't have to nitpick little details that annoy you because you lack the capacity to post any coherent, erudite response.
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations
Brothers of Tangra
6
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Posted - 2016.07.10 15:11:36 -
[27] - Quote
A dread that does 10% more damage and costs 10% more than a normal dread will replace every dread in the game.
Why use a Moros when you leaving 10% damage on the table for a mere 200million isk? There is no trade off, it becomes a must have dread.
While the price is very high its at the level where Alliances have to decide if its worth bringing into combat for its cost.
Or, people swimming in c5/c6 magnetar isk can up their damage even more.
Also, I would guess that if one of these appeared in a fleet it would get primaried automatically, quite an advantage if it can abosrb the damage.
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 15:13:04 -
[28] - Quote
The big "win" is not the vehement bpc, but being in the top 10 so you can get the other "Real" rewards.
Vanquisher and Vendetta BPC's are going to be the "Win"..
I do agree that something seems seriously unbalanced by the manufacturing cost on these prints, I know that there are some in the oven, but that's really not the point. CCP seems to be using these items as a way to drain minerals from the game or something. The install cost on them will be massive too. Some people could say it is a reward for highly efficient and productive corps, but to me it looks like they are just trying to see how much people in the current playerbase are willing to pay for items.
A ton of the players just seem to have little understanding of value. I know that it's just internet game monies, but you would still think that some people could do basic math.
For example, Copper Accelerators are only today reaching price parity with the cost of injectors, and that's for players who have > 80m SP.. I think CCP can see how dumb some of the players are and they are looking to take advantage of it.
I am not going to say the event is a fail, but the rewards (and how users seem to perceive them) is a utter fail.
Not to mention the fact that they have duplicated items for this event, and that leads to exploits that they have to now address.
39584 Brutix Serpentis SKIN (Permanent)
42177 Brutix Serpentis SKIN (Permanent)
39585 Catalyst Serpentis SKIN (Permanent)
42162 Catalyst Serpentis SKIN (Permanent)
I am sure there is more fail out there too, but I dare not go on about it - else my post will look like the OPs. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 15:16:10 -
[29] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:A dread that does 10% more damage and costs 10% more than a normal dread will replace every dread in the game.
Why use a Moros when you leaving 10% damage on the table for a mere 200million isk? There is no trade off, it becomes a must have dread.
While the price is very high its at the level where Alliances have to decide if its worth bringing into combat for its cost.
Or, people swimming in c5/c6 magnetar isk can up their damage even more.
Also, I would guess that if one of these appeared in a fleet it would get primaried automatically, quite an advantage if it can abosrb the damage.
Instead of buying this ONE dread, you could purchase 25 dreads, what will bring more power?
There is not going to be enough of these in game to have a whole fleet of them, all it is going to be is something a lot of people will be willing to throw isk at to see destroyed. The other team could throw 20 dreads at your one dread, if they kill you then they have the obvious "isk" win. |
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations
Brothers of Tangra
6
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Posted - 2016.07.10 15:36:51 -
[30] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:Zanar Skwigelf wrote:A dread that does 10% more damage and costs 10% more than a normal dread will replace every dread in the game.
Why use a Moros when you leaving 10% damage on the table for a mere 200million isk? There is no trade off, it becomes a must have dread.
While the price is very high its at the level where Alliances have to decide if its worth bringing into combat for its cost.
Or, people swimming in c5/c6 magnetar isk can up their damage even more.
Also, I would guess that if one of these appeared in a fleet it would get primaried automatically, quite an advantage if it can abosrb the damage.
Instead of buying this ONE dread, you could purchase 25 dreads, what will bring more power? There is not going to be enough of these in game to have a whole fleet of them, all it is going to be is something a lot of people will be willing to throw isk at to see destroyed. The other team could throw 20 dreads at your one dread, if they kill you then they have the obvious "isk" win.
Quality vs. Quantity. There are situations where you don't want 25 dreads, or if you are going thru a wormhole chain can't bring 25 dreads. |
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
44
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Posted - 2016.07.10 15:38:09 -
[31] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:A dread that does 10% more damage and costs 10% more than a normal dread will replace every dread in the game.
Why use a Moros when you leaving 10% damage on the table for a mere 200million isk? There is no trade off, it becomes a must have dread.
While the price is very high its at the level where Alliances have to decide if its worth bringing into combat for its cost.
Or, people swimming in c5/c6 magnetar isk can up their damage even more.
Also, I would guess that if one of these appeared in a fleet it would get primaried automatically, quite an advantage if it can abosrb the damage.
To be clear I am not disputing the price AT ALL, I am disputing the arbitrary material build cost, that does not have to be so high, it's a problem of logistics, not a problem of price. If someone wants to fly a huge shiny they can do, but the price of this item should be controlled by BPC scarcity, not material build cost, I will keep reiterating this until people take in onboard and stop misfiring with responses.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
44
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Posted - 2016.07.10 15:39:46 -
[32] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:DeODokktor wrote:Zanar Skwigelf wrote:A dread that does 10% more damage and costs 10% more than a normal dread will replace every dread in the game.
Why use a Moros when you leaving 10% damage on the table for a mere 200million isk? There is no trade off, it becomes a must have dread.
While the price is very high its at the level where Alliances have to decide if its worth bringing into combat for its cost.
Or, people swimming in c5/c6 magnetar isk can up their damage even more.
Also, I would guess that if one of these appeared in a fleet it would get primaried automatically, quite an advantage if it can abosrb the damage.
Instead of buying this ONE dread, you could purchase 25 dreads, what will bring more power? There is not going to be enough of these in game to have a whole fleet of them, all it is going to be is something a lot of people will be willing to throw isk at to see destroyed. The other team could throw 20 dreads at your one dread, if they kill you then they have the obvious "isk" win. Quality vs. Quantity. There are situations where you don't want 25 dreads, or if you are going thru a wormhole chain can't bring 25 dreads.
the material build cost is 20 dreads, 20 time the mass of materials, yet the finished product is 1/20th the mass of the parts, this makes no sense at all. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
68
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Posted - 2016.07.10 15:42:02 -
[33] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:DeODokktor wrote:Zanar Skwigelf wrote:A dread that does 10% more damage and costs 10% more than a normal dread will replace every dread in the game.
Why use a Moros when you leaving 10% damage on the table for a mere 200million isk? There is no trade off, it becomes a must have dread.
While the price is very high its at the level where Alliances have to decide if its worth bringing into combat for its cost.
Or, people swimming in c5/c6 magnetar isk can up their damage even more.
Also, I would guess that if one of these appeared in a fleet it would get primaried automatically, quite an advantage if it can abosrb the damage.
Instead of buying this ONE dread, you could purchase 25 dreads, what will bring more power? There is not going to be enough of these in game to have a whole fleet of them, all it is going to be is something a lot of people will be willing to throw isk at to see destroyed. The other team could throw 20 dreads at your one dread, if they kill you then they have the obvious "isk" win. Quality vs. Quantity. There are situations where you don't want 25 dreads, or if you are going thru a wormhole chain can't bring 25 dreads.
Yea, But do you think someone is going to take a 50bn isk dread through a WH by itself?...
While I think we will see a few players who don't mind throwing this type of isk around, it's not going to be that many, probably far less than the number of bpc's that we will see in game!
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Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Exiliar Syndicate
192
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 17:46:59 -
[34] - Quote
The fact that this BPCs (all of them) are going to be available though LP store after the event seem to be unknown for some people. Anyway, cant imagine anyone brining titan with manufacturing requirements of roughly 1T into battle... |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
171
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 21:44:28 -
[35] - Quote
The vehement lose its cap rep bonus which is traded for 10% web effectiveness and gains 12.5% to turret damage( that you dont have train gal dread up to level 5 for but have to dual train for minmatar dreads as well). For many this this would probably be a 17.5% gain in dps or better. It also has slightly better HP than the moros.
However at 20 times the cost in mats of a regular dread( plus profit margin and the fact it will be more rare even when available in the store) your looking at 50 bil is probably going to be on the low end and 60-80 bil on the upper end.
Even in the 50-60 bil range you are looking at two fully fitted nyx supers for the same cost or half a titan. But the benefits of the vehement are not going to be on par with the cost, making it a rich player "look at my pimped out dread because i have to much isk" thing that never actually gets used. Look at the revenant super. Its been out what? 3 or 4 years? more? and only 7 have been killed. Its a bling ship for epeen bragging rights. And its a complete waste of CCPs time to develop stuff like this that no one really can use on the regular basis because of its cost vs bling factor VS actual usability. The revenant is only about 5-6 times the cost of a regular super, the vehement is going to be 20 times.
The cost of mats for the vehement should be lowered to 3-5 times the cost for a normal dread. At 4 times the material and controlled by BPCs you are looking at 10-15 bil isk range which i think is a much more realistic trade off. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5878
|
Posted - 2016.07.11 02:29:50 -
[36] - Quote
I miss the days that high value ore sites used to be grav sites.
Back when exploration was about exploring, rather than grinding.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Tal Arran
Shadow of xXDEATHXx holding
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
0
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Posted - 2016.07.11 03:29:18 -
[37] - Quote
just as the topic creator, I compared moros to vehement and I just cant comprehend the reason behind x20 in build costs for the same hull. I can understand the x2000 chips you need, but why capital components are x20 times moros. By that logic, rattlesnake fleets shouldnt exist, cause their mineral requirements should be x20 scorpions each.
Using Lore logic, what kind of scientist would take gallente blueprint and make "advanced" version by not making it more efficient and powerful, but a little bit better at the cost of x20 less ME and Serpentis going, oh yeah that sounds fair... |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2016.07.11 07:42:20 -
[38] - Quote
I don't actually understand why exploration pilots would have many beefs with the event.
(a) the shipyard+research follows normal signature spawning rules, which is highly advantageous to _mobile_ pilots who understand how it works and where to look - errr "explore" for stacked signatures. My record thus far has been 12 in a system, followed by 9 in the next system, and I frequently find 3-4 and get to solo most or all of them (my preferred way as I have the encounter perfected for my ship and more players often doesn't make it faster or most importantly more loot rolls per hour).
(b) you have to kill slightly less than half of the NPCs to get the loot to drop, if you do that in the right order, you get another loot roll at the end for basically the same set of NPCs with 2 extra BCs (which die fast). ie if you know where the s+rs stack up, and where you don't have competition, you can essentially turn a stack of 10 s+rs into 20 loot rolls with only 10 warps (minimized overhead), and no jumps (overhead), and no further searching (overhead).
(c) its abundantly clear that the players who I would normally be competing with telescopes, phi and mul zatar, are running s+rs as well (some seem more or less exclusively), which is reducing the number of ded signatures they consume (and thus regenerate through causing it to respawn). Its certainly reducing the number of sigs I find per session, because I spend some time on the event and don't move as much.
That has lead to supply issues with the corelum c-type medium repairer, and the corelum c-type energized explosive membrane, which amongst other things completely cleared dodixie of the rep, and saw my last unit go for more than 50% more than pre event, on a badly conservative price guess (looks like the market would bear double price).
The rep showed up the stress first, because it turns out the traders in dodixie didn't have stocks. I have little doubt other modules across all races are also burning traders stocks, and you'll see resistance points in the prices melt when they are burnt. it will take a long time for the market to build up stocks to put those resistance points back.
As a pilot performing "grindsploration" its fine, because there is simply another choice available to me when I land in system, about content. and a lot more value about crossing some lowsec. I'm not personally _that_ interested in the bpc, like most people i think I'm interested in completing a midgrade set of implants for myself, and selling other implant drops.
If you tend to get double rolls per s+r, it seems like you'll also run very close to 2000 chips when you finish the event, which leaves that part of the event dealt with, and just a question of whether CCP will reconsider the pre-nerfed mats on the bpc -> if nobody builds them at the current prices... |
wangsunan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 09:00:14 -
[39] - Quote
I have never commented on forum threads cause laziness , but this one made me logged in and replied, ITS PURE GOLD, its probably comment from thousands players who are too lazy to make a complaint towards CCP, I have to leave my marks here before its getting locked
Thousands bumps for you bro |
wangsunan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 09:06:23 -
[40] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:A dread that does 10% more damage and costs 10% more than a normal dread will replace every dread in the game.
Why use a Moros when you leaving 10% damage on the table for a mere 200million isk? There is no trade off, it becomes a must have dread.
While the price is very high its at the level where Alliances have to decide if its worth bringing into combat for its cost.
Or, people swimming in c5/c6 magnetar isk can up their damage even more.
Also, I would guess that if one of these appeared in a fleet it would get primaried automatically, quite an advantage if it can abosrb the damage.
Sure thing , but when this 10% more damage became 1800% more expensive than a Moros , then nobody cares about the damage anymore , they can as well bringing 2 super carrier which also cost 40b to battle,and deal 120% more damage than a single vehement and can tank maybe 1000% more damage. |
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14283
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 09:18:32 -
[41] - Quote
This doesnt have much sense to me, why so much materials? Its unimaginable why would someone build that to use. Only for looking at it and to tell everybody you have something like that. Collectors item and thats all.
Bring one, everyone will shoot it and it will melt quicker than your other Moros..
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B
Snuffed Out
3369
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 09:28:08 -
[42] - Quote
I want an Angel Cartel super carrier which looks like a cross between a huge mach and a hel which can kite machariel fleets with fighter bombers which are big dramiels
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Solecist Project
The Scope
Gallente Federation
31921
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 12:43:48 -
[43] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:I want an Angel Cartel super carrier which looks like a cross between a huge mach and a hel which can kite machariel fleets with fighter bombers which are big dramiels
I want an angel cartel mining barge.
Just think about it, it'll look like a cow!
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Rawthorm
D.M.T inc
Circle-Of-Two
113
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 13:02:13 -
[44] - Quote
Personally I'm not as bothered about the ISK value of the increased build cost (Even if it is completely out of wack with reality) as I am about the dangerous precedent the inflated build itself cost sets. Up until this point the additional cost for building a faction ship came from it's BPC. This is true from say a Navy Hookbill all the way up to a Vindicator. Even the Revenant (Sansha Super) has a very respectable build cost with almost all it's expense coming from the scarcity of the BPC's.
The build cost of the Serpentis capitals fly's in the face of over a decades worth of build cost conventions being fairly universal across the board and highlights a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions. |
Solecist Project
The Scope
Gallente Federation
31923
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Posted - 2016.08.08 13:42:45 -
[45] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions.
I don't see anything indicating that this is about rl money.
Those who just "work a bit harder" might not be the ones who deserve them.
I know that sounds harsh, sorry, but where is room in this meta for everyone who "works a bit harder"?
Wealth and assets accumulate very easily! The lazy ones of next week seem like the harder working of the last.
In the end it would be boring anyway if everyone could afford them ...
... and it would devalueing them significantly.
Rarity ensures everyone's either proud to have one ...
... or proud to have killed one.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Rawthorm
D.M.T inc
Circle-Of-Two
113
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 13:52:03 -
[46] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Rawthorm wrote:a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions. I don't see anything indicating that this is about rl money.
Maybe not directly, but a grind fest event paired with the first move away from established patterns in faction build cost give a good idea at the corner of the user base this event is aimed at.
Solecist Project wrote:Those who just "work a bit harder" might not be the ones who deserve them.
I know that sounds harsh, sorry, but where is room in this meta for everyone who "works a bit harder"?
Wealth and assets accumulate very easily! The lazy ones of next week seem like the harder working of the last.
In the end it would be boring anyway if everyone could afford them ...
... and it would devalueing them significantly.
Rarity ensures everyone's either proud to have one ...
... or proud to have killed one.
Oh I agree that working harder for something isn't necessarily the ideal barrier to entry. I mean just look at Titan proliferation. However extreme cost and rarity is what the Alliance Tourny is for. Faction ships have a well established cost formula and this isn't an area that CCP should tip on its head on a whim (unless they intend to x20 the cost of all faction ships so it at least matches)
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Legion
17826
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 14:17:45 -
[47] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?
***** expensive and OP is a peasant. |
Solecist Project
The Scope
Gallente Federation
31930
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 14:23:17 -
[48] - Quote
My best guess is that they're trying to experiment with implementing long time goals ...
... trying a slight shift of culture away from instant-gratification-thinking.
It's a possibility.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Revis Owen
The Conference Elite
CODE.
395
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 14:44:33 -
[49] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble
PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1306
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 14:54:23 -
[50] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.
Does shooting the gate rats while camping count as PvE?
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1099
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Posted - 2016.08.08 14:57:54 -
[51] - Quote
Way to be OP.
Not today spaghetti.
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
1163
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 15:31:15 -
[52] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Rawthorm wrote:a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions. I don't see anything indicating that this is about rl money. Maybe not directly, but a grind fest event paired with the first move away from established patterns in faction build cost give a good idea at the corner of the user base this event is aimed at. Solecist Project wrote:Those who just "work a bit harder" might not be the ones who deserve them.
I know that sounds harsh, sorry, but where is room in this meta for everyone who "works a bit harder"?
Wealth and assets accumulate very easily! The lazy ones of next week seem like the harder working of the last.
In the end it would be boring anyway if everyone could afford them ...
... and it would devalueing them significantly.
Rarity ensures everyone's either proud to have one ...
... or proud to have killed one. Oh I agree that working harder for something isn't necessarily the ideal barrier to entry. I mean just look at Titan proliferation. However extreme cost and rarity is what the Alliance Tourny is for. Faction ships have a well established cost formula and this isn't an area that CCP should tip on its head on a whim (unless they intend to x20 the cost of all faction ships so it at least matches)
But your assumption is that these costs will stay static despite the fact that we currently only have prices and drop rates based on the event. It could be that CCP plans to bring things inline post event with their initial goal being high cost to balance the open nature of the event.
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Rawthorm
D.M.T inc
Circle-Of-Two
114
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 16:15:30 -
[53] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
But your assumption is that these costs will stay static despite the fact that we currently only have prices and drop rates based on the event. It could be that CCP plans to bring things inline post event with their initial goal being high cost to balance the open nature of the event.
I think my assumption is pretty valid. CCP is well practiced in douche bag maneuvers, but I cant see them waiting until after some are built to make the cost reasonable. If I was that guy that had just laid out 30+ billion to build one, only to find CCP drops the build cost a week later down to normal dread levels I'd be pretty pissed and with good reason. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
310
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 16:21:30 -
[54] - Quote
Supers were supposed to be stupid rare because of how expensive they were. All we had to do to build a lot of them was to import a lot of orebears
A signature :o
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7877
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 16:41:27 -
[55] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:
Which is not what built this games community originally...
You nailed it.
The community that's left is sick right now. CCP has the leadership and authority to fix it without any nerfs or changes in mechanics and covering it up with new content. The game is better than ever but it's wasted on the players. But the problem appears internal to their ranks and a problem must be admitted to before it can be addressed.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Memphis Baas
1890
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 17:10:12 -
[56] - Quote
CCP should have kept the materials for the Vehement the same as the materials for the Moros, with two extra material needed: 500 full skill injectors and 10,000 (capsuleer) corpses. The injectors to keep the PLEX sales going, and the corpses to promote the PVP that these ships will never see. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7877
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 18:46:28 -
[57] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:CCP should have kept the materials for the Vehement the same as the materials for the Moros, with two extra material needed: 500 full skill injectors and 10,000 (capsuleer) corpses. The injectors to keep the PLEX sales going, and the corpses to promote the PVP that these ships will never see.
I have long hoped for biological "bug ships" (See the "Lexx" series) that needed to be fed on corpses. But that apparently would have to be a different game for being way too outside of Eve cannon. Just the way it is.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Skettis Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 21:59:33 -
[58] - Quote
Excellent thread!
Since "fozziesov", CCP is constantly treating us like puppets, everything that was good in this game simply ... vanished! I think they're just looking at PLEX sales and that's it!
EVE is far of being a game anymore, people are fighting for killboards, "lulz" and ... that's pretty much it. |
Lugia3
Tri-gun
Psychotic Tendencies.
1510
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 22:14:34 -
[59] - Quote
7.4 untanked freighters
"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
633
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 22:35:01 -
[60] - Quote
CCP has been breaking the fundamentals of the game consistently in the last year or so. Many of the things introduced would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. I blame the current crop of Devs for the change in attitude and direction which has perhaps been influenced by the shareholders clamouring for more $$.
Greyscale was the last of the old school devs to leave, and then upon his departure a lot of his work was undone. If you look at how he interacted on the forums extensively before pushing changes to tranquillity, yet wasn't afraid to make bold moves to keep eve close to the original vision; we're now lucky to get a single response to a new feature, if there is a thread at all.
So to cut a long story short, the fact that the Vehement has a ridiculously over inflated build cost doesn't surprise me. And although annoying and stupid, is rather a minor issue compared to what else has been coming out of CCP recently.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
864
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Posted - 2016.08.09 06:50:24 -
[61] - Quote
I did the Blood Raiders event and kind of enjoyed it. The accelerator rewards were pretty sweet and fairly easy to acquire.
I also did the Frostline event and kind of didn't really enjoy it, until a PLEX dropped for me and I got all excited again.
I took one look at this Serpentis/Angels event, saw the mechanics and the rewards and thought: meh. I only run whatever sites spawn in my wormhole, for no other reason than to clear up the Overview. I have no idea if I'm doing the *right* ones or not and honestly don't care. Now, this is from a guy that really loves flying Serpentis and Angel Cartel subcaps.
But seriously, for the absurd build costs of a Vehement, I could buy two Moros alts and ships for them. Two Moros will still out-DPS one Vehement.
I agree with the OP. The price should be determined by the BPC rarity. Some unique parts not required for a regular Moros, sure why not. But just a straight 20x modifier on the parts list for a Moros? That's simply being lazy beyond words.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
210
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Posted - 2016.08.09 08:04:41 -
[62] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?
CCP sucks in event making.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Rawthorm
D.M.T inc
Circle-Of-Two
115
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Posted - 2016.08.09 08:46:37 -
[63] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? CCP sucks in event making.
Tell me about it, I still have some event loot from the 2013 Sansha event that never ended up being used. I suspect it was one of those events that CCP would rather we all forget about given the server issues that plagued it. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
210
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Posted - 2016.08.09 08:59:33 -
[64] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Tell me about it, I still have some event loot from the 2013 Sansha event that never ended up being used.
Is there anything for sale?
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1453
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 09:10:58 -
[65] - Quote
I don't think the OP is considering CCP objectives correctly. CCP wanted an event that would engage players and what better way to engage players than give them a 'good' chance in dropping a faction capital BPC worth potentially billions?
The problem is they don't want a bazillion of these capitals flying around.
They also wanted an event that redistributes wealth from the richer players and something that would stimulate the resource gathering and manufacturing industries.
What they have done is actually quite clever.
1. Players that actually receive the BPCs are going to wet themselves, despite the fact that they are never going to build the thing. They are simply going to sell the BPC.
2. Players that buy the BPC are going to wet themselves. Even in BPC form they have something of a status symbol and arguably an investment.
3. Players that actually build the thing are going to wet themselves. They are the elite, look at me. But very few if any are ever going to use them in combat, so they won't unbalance the game.
4. If one ever does go into combat, players who shoot it are going to wet themselves. What a great KM they will be number 386th on.
5. Miners and others resource gatherers are going to benefit from every one of these ships that get built. They won't notice and continue whining about being ganked, but it will be another factor pushing up the price of their minerals another 0.02 cents.
Where is the lose? |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
7084
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 11:28:31 -
[66] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.
This game would not and can not exist without PvE whether you like it or not. |
Solecist Project
The Scope
Gallente Federation
31957
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 11:30:50 -
[67] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:CCP should have kept the materials for the Vehement the same as the materials for the Moros, with two extra material needed: 500 full skill injectors and 10,000 (capsuleer) corpses. The injectors to keep the PLEX sales going, and the corpses to promote the PVP that these ships will never see. I have long hoped for biological "bug ships" (See the "Lexx" series) that needed to be fed on corpses. But that apparently would have to be a different game for being way too outside of Eve cannon. Just the way it is.
You can do that with seekers.
When you do it at a Jove observatory you can even see ...
... how they then shoot lasers at it, possibly repairing it with the corpse.
Or maybe storing it. I don't know.
It shoots two differently coloured lasers, one at a time.
A blue one and an orange one. One moving towards, one moving backwards.
Trying to deliver a few dozen corpses though is pure pain...
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
455
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:27:08 -
[68] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:
The sites are boring, pathetic actually and yet on the o7 show we are addressed like kindergarten children with the marvels of what await us in this highly anticipated event, that engages and exploits those of an addictive or aspergers personality type. This "carrot on a stick" approach would be fine if the carrot at the end was worthwhile...so this bring me onto why I am actually pretty livid with CCP and before I proceed I will state, I stand nothing to gain from CCP bowing to my next line of thought, no isk benefits, no power or virtual status, I am just struggling to understand design decisions in a game I once regarded as tilting towards folks who enjoy spreadsheets in space and those who like to blow up what the spreadsheeters produce. So here goes.
The Vehement.
**** you CCP. The build costs of this thing make no sense to anyone even those with a fat in game wallet. Is this ship aimed at pilots who drop PLEX to buy capitals or what? Because it certainly isn't for the industrialists who have to build this over hyped piece of crap. In defense I have heard players say, "but pew pew", "it's great for anti-tackle", "it's just meant to be a shiny". Ok.... This isn't an aesthetic item, it's a functional one, yes it pew pew's, yes its great for anti tackle....but if you are tackled in this you can be sure supers are coming and you are about to be killmail whored, so it's just meant to be a shiny???? well then why not like every other shiny object in the game does it require 7.4 untanked freighters to ship the Capital Armor Plates? so let's look at the build materials shall we?
It's kind of funny how someone can complain about being addressed like a kindergartener, but at the same unironically uses terms like "pew pew". |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
2913
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 13:22:42 -
[69] - Quote
Agreed. 30B is utterly ridiculous for a dread. 10B would be better for this. Or perhaps a unique role to receive reps in siege.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
651
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 13:27:46 -
[70] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:It's kind of funny how someone can complain about being addressed like a kindergartener, but at the same unironically uses terms like "pew pew".
What's wrong with that? It's commonly accepted vernacular in these forums as a phrase generally referring to a myriad of things centered on the act of shooting. I've seen it said dozens of times, but never have I seen someone so petty as to jump upon the phrase and passive-aggressively slight the poster.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
456
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Posted - 2016.08.10 08:15:46 -
[71] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:It's kind of funny how someone can complain about being addressed like a kindergartener, but at the same unironically uses terms like "pew pew". What's wrong with that? It's commonly accepted vernacular in these forums as a phrase generally referring to a myriad of things centered on the act of shooting. I've seen it said dozens of times, but never have I seen someone so petty as to jump upon the phrase and passive-aggressively demean the poster.
Just because something is used often, that doesn't make it less childish.
Otherwise this forum wouldn't need a word filter, since all those obscenities filtered out by it would be perfectly fine, since they're used "often" and are "commonly accepted" as obscenities.  |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
220
|
Posted - 2016.08.10 08:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Just because something is used often, that doesn't make it less childish.
Just get a dictionary and try to find out what "irony" is. Like an adult.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Skettis Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.08.10 09:37:19 -
[73] - Quote
Trollers just started doing their thing ... |
Toobo
Project Fruit House
Solyaris Chtonium
45
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Posted - 2016.08.12 15:14:32 -
[74] - Quote
well, I can see that isk/time/resource sink could be a good thing for the game, but I think half assed attempt at lore with 5 minute effort would have appeased the OP.
They could've made the build requirements into something like 'Serpentis Capital Armor Plate', 'Serpentis Capital Jump Drive", etc, Make the BPCs drop from rats/cans/data/relic sites to please the exploration crowd and put some simple sentence like "Serpentis Capital Armor Plate trades material efficiency for sheer performance. The production technique used is highly wasteful, but the super compressed materials give these armor plates extraordinary strength compared to more conventional armor plates used for Capital Ships", etc, on the BPC.
I think it's this lack of even trying for any 'lore' sense is what angers OP, which I can sympathise with.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
114
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 15:33:31 -
[75] - Quote
I will write a report about my overall thoughts about the event in a different post. It had many many positives.
One thing to note is that CCP have now lowered the Vehement build costs, whether that was the result of this post or not (or the others on different forums) is not for me to say, but it is important to note the Super and Titan build costs remain the same, yet the issue is the same for them as it is the Vehement. Does this mean that CCP has shifted on the Vehement because it in particular has been targeted by the community, that of course would be more focused on the Vehement simply due to the number of people that obtained a BPC? I don't know the answer to this question, but it is arbitrary that the Vehement got a 30% build cost reduction and the Vendetta and Vanquisher did not.
I would like to hear from CCP themselves as to the rationale behind the excessive build requirements of these ships. Considering the work that is gonna go into building them, I think and explanation as to the process by which they derived the 20x build reqs of the the t1 equivalents for these ships, is not a big ask. Or even better for them to take on board some of the suggestions made by players in this thread to make the ships more lore friendly and/or replace some of the parts with PI or even the junk that now piles up that we used to build Data interfaces from? There are so many creative ways to go about engaging the community in building these ships and it seems to have been a missed opportunity and a lazy decision to just inflate the build costs.
CCP if you wanna keep your playerbase, please don't forget (despite what the forums my lead one to believe) that eve's playerbase is one of the most intelligent collections of gamers in the world and appeasing their desire to have things add up will ensure you have a solid base of players for the next decade to come. We like fiddling, we like tinkering, we like working out difficult problems and creating them. We like the sandbox, we want different shapes of spades and buckets, not more sand to pile up. These ships are boring in their build costs, it's ABC minerals en mass, piles of sand... |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
114
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 15:34:19 -
[76] - Quote
Toobo wrote:well, I can see that isk/time/resource sink could be a good thing for the game, but I think half assed attempt at lore with 5 minute effort would have appeased the OP.
They could've made the build requirements into something like 'Serpentis Capital Armor Plate', 'Serpentis Capital Jump Drive", etc, Make the BPCs drop from rats/cans/data/relic sites to please the exploration crowd and put some simple sentence like "Serpentis Capital Armor Plate trades material efficiency for sheer performance. The production technique used is highly wasteful, but the super compressed materials give these armor plates extraordinary strength compared to more conventional armor plates used for Capital Ships", etc, on the BPC.
I think it's this lack of even trying for any 'lore' sense is what angers OP, which I can sympathise with.
You nailed it.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 15:42:46 -
[77] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? ***** expensive and OP is a peasant.
Price is not the issue, stupid build reqs is. I don;t care if the ships end up costing 1 trillion isk, a ship the same size as a Moros should not require x20 the parts. Simple.
Lords without peasants command nothing but weeds and dirt. |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 15:49:58 -
[78] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.
Copy and paste responses only get you so far with building a reputation in eve. You don't know me. I am an alt. I have embraced more of eve than you, clearly by your limited scope of reply. Perhaps you should learn that there is no PVP content without PVE folks. I think you are mistaking EvE for an FPS, where all the materials of war spontaneously appear before you?
" PvE is for single-player gamers, really"
Revis Owen thinks his toys appear by magic in Jita. |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 15:51:55 -
[79] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
But your assumption is that these costs will stay static despite the fact that we currently only have prices and drop rates based on the event. It could be that CCP plans to bring things inline post event with their initial goal being high cost to balance the open nature of the event.
I think my assumption is pretty valid. CCP is well practiced in douche bag maneuvers, but I cant see them waiting until after some are built to make the cost reasonable. If I was that guy that had just laid out 30+ billion to build one, only to find CCP drops the build cost a week later down to normal dread levels I'd be pretty pissed and with good reason.
This one is easy, reimburse these players. It's very easy. |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
115
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 16:04:03 -
[80] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:
Which is not what built this games community originally...
You nailed it. The community that's left is sick right now. CCP has the leadership and authority to fix it without any nerfs or changes in mechanics and covering it up with new content. The game is better than ever but it's wasted on the players. But the problem appears internal to their ranks and a problem must be admitted to before it can be addressed.
Agreed. The game is in the best state it has been for years, bittervets are coming back in droves and the bitterness is slinking away in some of them. I am excited by the new stargates and citadels and new space to explore on the horizon and the tool's we are being handed to truely sever ties with NPC's in high sec, Jita I'm looking at you.
This community sometimes knows what it wants and needs and sometimes it's like an idiot sibling that just wants to annoy you because,... well just because.
The UI is slick, the Tactical camera is the muts nuts, citadels are just sexy as hell, retribution made criminal activity very interesting, in short a slew of well executed fixes and developments is steering eve towards the place we all sort of wanted it to be in. CCP doesn't seem to realise that the key to it's success isn't making new games or pumping as much money as they can out of eve, but by giving he players the respect they deserve (and in many cases do not deserve) and listening to their concerns. They have proven time and time again that they can do this, through community pressure. But they stray again and again, why? I think it's human tbh.
As for the sick community. This community is sick. In some cases it's down right toxic. The aggression towards the carebears that generate all the fun toys for people is absurd, and as soon as someone stumbles into these forums that isn't a pr0 they get torn a new one. Back in the day, these forums were abuzz with posts, alliances were made and broken in CAOD, debates raged for page after page. Now I sometimes feel like players have a notepad open with the most used responses and copy and paste with minor adjustments to get their eve forum likes.
"Eve is a PVP game" Yes it is, anyone who has said this and ever ratted, mined, missioned, sold a single item on the market, or engaged in any activity that is not aggression towards another pilot is a hypocrite. Eve is a PVE game with non-consenual PVP, describing it anything but ignores most of what happens in eve. |
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wangsunan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.08.14 00:20:13 -
[81] - Quote
bump this to let ccp notice it |
Kaely Tanniss
Bite the pillow
656
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Posted - 2016.08.14 05:05:58 -
[82] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Look, seriously. If you have better ideas, hash it out with the CSM reps. While some good could possibly come out of this thread, talking to people who can actually do things is going to be better. This is EVE. Complaining in the wrong place will simply get you mocked more often than not. I'm an '06 player.....pretty sure I know this already, a forum is a forum. a dialogue starts somewhere and here is as good a place as any, I can take the toxic elements in the community in my stride, but please don't assume this is simply a whine or a complaint, it's a critique. As for better ideas, do I really have to point to the hundreds if not thousands of other community ideas that are better than a reskin, a quick stats edit and a tour around the graphics department. This isn't hard, CCP designed everything else we love in this game, this is damn lazy. I am someone who solves problems, I am not a designer of ships, but I am pretty sure you can't call the Vehement a designed ship, it's a reskin...
Then doesn't said "critique" belong in the features and ideas forum? 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17885
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Posted - 2016.08.14 13:27:02 -
[83] - Quote
Celeste Coeval wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? New events, re-balances (dumbing-down) and new shinies are aimed at players who are more willing/likely to buy PLEX. Which is not what built this games community originally, I don't mind the micro transactions, I don't mind the pointless shiny things, I do mind the enforced grind, the lazy design and I expect so much more from this games studio.
I do not think this word means what you think it means.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
120
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 08:03:41 -
[84] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Celeste Coeval wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked? New events, re-balances (dumbing-down) and new shinies are aimed at players who are more willing/likely to buy PLEX. Which is not what built this games community originally, I don't mind the micro transactions, I don't mind the pointless shiny things, I do mind the enforced grind, the lazy design and I expect so much more from this games studio. I do not think this word means what you think it means.
That is surely a matter of perspective. The route to one of these bpc is a long one, so is the route to building one, it is an arbitrarily long process to build one of these ships, an enforced grind. If you don't see it that way, then each to their own :)
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
120
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 08:06:41 -
[85] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Then doesn't said "critique" belong in the features and ideas forum?
For sure it is getting to that stage, but thanks for the prompt. If the mods felt it did, it would have been moved already, we are on page 5. But I think you are right, and it's time to start thinking about a concise set of suggestions. |
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