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[Deployable] Portable Threat Sensing Depot

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Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 16:49:30 - [1] - Quote Reposted from Here. A couple of the small things I'd like to CCP for are the little audio cues that have fairly recently been added. Specifically the ore hold full 'ding'. [So useful!] One of my fellow Unistas jokingly said, "the first time I heard it I damn near [had to scoop out my drawers]. I thought I had been podded while looking at a spreadsheet." (quote edited for content) It gave me an idea, though, and one I thought I'd pass on after shopping it around other Unistas for feedback. Something which I feel would add valuable content to the game, and fits in nicely with the Upwell developments in Citadels and other structures, is a small deployable passive threat-detection sensor array. I had the idea when I first heard the above-mentioned audio cue, and there is a real-world parallel currently in use along the US-Canada border. The idea is, you have a deployable about the same size and dimensions (volume) as a Mobile Depot. It doesn't store anything. It has no combat value. It's easy to blow up, but not overly expensive to replace. However, it ties into your ship's sensor and communications arrays and provides an audio cue. That's all it does. It creates an audio cue. However, what it creates the audio cue for is what's important. It has two settings: war targets, and criminals. You set it for the one, or the other. I call it the Portable Threat Sensing Depot (or PTSD for short). You deploy it in a system, like a choke point, set it for which detection you're looking for, and then you leave. You're able to receive from it to a maximum range determined by your 'Remote Sensing' skill. Then, if that selected type of threat enters the system (or perhaps the maximum scan range in AU of the deployable) it sends an audio cue. Maybe an alarm, or a tone. It also doesn't tell you if they're docked up, or in space. It just emits the tone when they're there. One tone for the YES/NO value of "is this thing present?" That's it. It doesn't tell you where it came from if you have more than one deployed. Just that one of your beacons, somewhere, has detected a threat (if you have more than one deployed). Applications: AFK Mining Hi-Sec PVP Trap Baiting Perimeter Defense in Sov-Null The deployable is just as easy to scan down as a mobile depot, can be destroyed, etc. The Pirate faction version of this device should have the added benefit of being able to enter the name of a specific character, and if that character's ship signature enters the scan radius, it emits the audio cue. This is specifically for bounty-hunting. I'm open to feedback.
elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1308	Posted - 2016.07.12 17:04:37 - [2] - Quote It must be really traumatizing for the Canadians to have to fear an invasion of Americans that you think you need such a device. I get it PTSD or commonly knowns as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder takes many years to recover from. Depending on the events you might even never fully recover from the trauma at all. It may change you, consume you or even be the end of you entirely. I am not sure what kind of solo university you are member of but a multiplayer online game where many people with "different" mindset are put in the same room, you shalt not ever do things afk. The only place you can be afk is a station, so go forth and dock and everything will be (not) okay. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3381	Posted - 2016.07.12 17:15:31 - [3] - Quote Yup. **** players that pay attention. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16808	Posted - 2016.07.12 17:18:47 - [4] - Quote This is why people like me go to war with eve uni. Seriously. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Sonya Corvinus Static-Noise Upholders 330	Posted - 2016.07.12 18:15:58 - [5] - Quote jesus no. You already have a 100% risk free threat detector. It's called local chat.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4531	Posted - 2016.07.12 18:22:32 - [6] - Quote No, playing AFK should not be made safer.
Gadget Helmsdottir Gadget's Workshop 197	Posted - 2016.07.12 19:13:50 - [7] - Quote Thanks for posting this here, JD. Having thought about this for a bit, I'd have to say it would rather depend on the range of these depots to make the case for or against. I wouldn't have a problem with these if it only replicated what could be seen in local already. That would make these rather useless in WH-space, which is fine actually. If these were to have a range of X-KM, but still required the pilot to stay in the same system to get the information, then their use would be regulated to AFK mining...with no music. However, if the range were measured in system gate-jumps away modified by a skill, then they start having a real use. Or maybe a set number of jumps as a range, but the skill determines how many you can have active? Either way, if these could send information over multiple systems, then they could be used to help mercenaries track a target's whereabouts and even direction of travel as they move from system to system pinging the depots all the while. Perimeter defense would make more sense if you consider the perimeter to be border systems.... how it's actually used IRL :) However, I balk at the audio tone. I mean, who plays EvE with the sound on anyway . Instead, have a brief pop-up message, maybe with a notification notice, of which depot pinged. That's it. Same thing as the tone, but if a pilot is truly AFK it won't help, but it will get their notice easier than something coming into local should you have that covered up with another window. Use these around a system you're mining in, and bam... an early defense network. Once again, if the pilot is truly AFK, then this early warning will not help. There are other issues to any version of this idea (would the depot beep for a second target if the first is still there, and would you know you've been pinged?), but I think if designed with a multi-system strategy in mind, then they would be a interesting tool for pilots to have. --Gadget Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
Titus Tallang EVE University Ivy League 171	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:10:17 - [8] - Quote I don't like it at all, for multiple reasons: The audio cue constraint is arbitrary. EVE has always presented information to players in a visual format. Why would you suddenly limit this to audio? Super multi-boxing unfriendly, too. If your argument for a feature is "I want to make AFK mining safer", then you should probably re-consider your feature immediately. Making AFK mining better is definitely not the adjustment mining needs right now - it needs ways to make active mining superior (and engaging). Making "not playing the game" the most optimal way to play your game (by isk/effort metric) is terrible design. Isn't instant local safe enough for nullbears yet? If you give them a free warning when people land on the in-gate that adds another 5+ seconds (decelerating, landing, jump, node load etc) that they can use to run away. Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:11:57 - [9] - Quote elitatwo wrote: It must be really traumatizing for the Canadians to have to fear an invasion of Americans that you think you need such a device. Uhm, this really isn't the place to be having a political conersation. That said, we didn't put in the motion sensors on the border. US Department of Homeland Security did that, and the motion was chaired by Montana Democratic Senator Jon Tester. Moving on...
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:15:55 - [10] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Yup. ** players that pay attention. Conversely, are you saying " players that can't afford multiple monitors"? Or who play on laptops? It's a proposal for a tool that allows for a simple duplication of what happens by watching local. And I've put into the description that it's an either/or proposition. Either WTs, or Criminals (the latter having timers). It's not a suggestion for a game-wide nerf. Just a tool. And, if you're a WarDec corp, this is just the tool for you** because it would allow you to put a beacon near a gate and find out when the carebears are sailing through, without having to have physical eyes there. Think about it.
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:17:49 - [11] - Quote Gadget Helmsdottir wrote: However, if the range were measured in system gate-jumps away modified by a skill, then they start having a real use. Or maybe a set number of jumps as a range, but the skill determines how many you can have active? Either way, if these could send information over multiple systems, then they could be used to help mercenaries track a target's whereabouts and even direction of travel as they move from system to system pinging the depots all the while. Perimeter defense would make more sense if you consider the perimeter to be border systems.... how it's actually used IRL :) However, I balk at the audio tone. I mean, who plays EvE with the sound on anyway Twisted. Instead, have a brief pop-up message, maybe with a notification notice, of which depot pinged. That's it. Same thing as the tone, but if a pilot is truly AFK it won't help, but it will get their notice easier than something coming into local should you have that covered up with another window. Thank you, Gadget. You're on the same wavelength as me here.
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:20:45 - [12] - Quote Titus Tallang wrote: I don't like it at all, for multiple reasons: The audio cue constraint is arbitrary. EVE has always presented information to players in a visual format. Why would you suddenly limit this to audio? Super multi-boxing unfriendly, too. I like Gadget's suggestion of a visual pop-up or a notifcation box. Titus Tallang wrote: If your argument for a feature is "I want to make AFK mining safer", then you should probably re-consider your feature immediately. Making AFK mining better is definitely not the adjustment mining needs right now - it needs ways to make active mining superior (and engaging). Making "not playing the game" the most optimal way to play your game (by isk/effort metric) is terrible design. Isn't instant local safe enough for nullbears yet? If you give them a free warning when people land on the in-gate that adds another 5+ seconds (decelerating, landing, jump, node load etc) that they can use to run away. Why does everyone immediately go to AFK mining as the only application? I mentioned it as a potential use, not as the focus use. In the particular case of the PVP campuses within our own organization these would allow for setting up fast roams where we can avoid swathes of unpopulated null and go to systems where the fights are. Saving valuable time looking for a 'gf'. [Edited to add:] Particularly in the 01:00-05:00 (US time zones) in which I play. At that time of night, weeknights, Syndicate, Placid, Cloud Ring... basically ghost towns.
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 961	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:28:17 - [13] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: I'm open to feedback. Are you sure of that? 'Cause every other part of your OP sounds an awful lot like a troll post. For one, PTSD? That's what you called it? That's actually kind of insulting and borderline offensive in all honesty. "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Titus Tallang EVE University Ivy League 173	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:30:30 - [14] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: Why does everyone immediately go to AFK mining as the only application? I mentioned it as a potential use, not as the focus use. Probably because it's the first thing you listed in your "applications" list, which is the first thing that the reader's attention is drawn to due to its brevity. Jurius Doctor wrote: In the particular case of the PVP campuses within our own organization these would allow for setting up fast roams where we can avoid swathes of unpopulated null and go to systems where the fights are. Saving valuable time looking for a 'gf'. 1) You're going to grow tired of having to replace dead sensors pretty soon 2) You're going to be swamped in notifications from single people passing through. Hard to tell which one's actual PvP and which one's a random travelceptor. 3) The ability to immediately tell where players are on a scale beyond the current system would be immensely and utterly broken, especially in areas where pretty much any other player is out to kill you (read: sov null bears). Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16814	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:32:48 - [15] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Yup. ** players that pay attention. Conversely, are you saying " players that can't afford multiple monitors"? Or who play on laptops? It's a proposal for a tool that allows for a simple duplication of what happens by watching local. And I've put into the description that it's an either/or proposition. Either WTs, or Criminals (the latter having timers). It's not a suggestion for a game-wide nerf. Just a tool. And, if you're a WarDec corp, this is just the tool for you** because it would allow you to put a beacon near a gate and find out when the carebears are sailing through, without having to have physical eyes there. Think about it. As the exact kind of guy that particular sell is aimed at i still dont like it for enabeling extra safe afkness. Keep it visual and on screen. If you run more clients than you have tje hardware to reasonably manage thats on you, no one is being penalised here. I managed to scout myself about and hunt people with one monitor for a year before buying a second. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Lyra Gerie Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 97	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:58:45 - [16] - Quote The idea isn't terrible but I understand why it's getting opposition. It's an interesting tool but difficult to balance. Players already have D-scan and this acts as an improved automatic version of it. So you have to contend with why in an age of D-scan this is necessary. I suppose my first problem is that you want this to be cheap. D-scan, the free version, requires input by the player but is included in all ships and capsules. This version should cost at least 15-20 mil for a cheap version. It could last for 8 hours up to a few days but those would be far more expensive. The idea here is that IF you want to use it there is at the very least the risk of losing the deployable at a decent isk price, or lose your ship for more. It's range could also be less than that of D-scan. Perhaps a proximity warning, something that would only give an extra few seconds of heads up where as D-scan can give you a minute or more. There is little reason for it to have any large sort of range at all, though having one that can have an elongated cone of scan range could be used interestingly by scouts or pirates. Either way it's range should never exceed D-scan range and perferably is always less than max D-scan range even if aimed. Finally this ping should be local, only those on grid should be able to hear it and even then only those in the same corp/alliance as the individual who dropped it. It's deploy time can be on the quick side, but it's scoop time should be at least 30 seconds, perferably longer. If you use one of these to save your ship, you should lose the deployable. That being said, I think this idea still needs refinement and we do have time until surveillance structures are a thing. overall maybe a 6/10, it has some merit but it still needs work.
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:02:14 - [17] - Quote Titus Tallang wrote: The ability to immediately tell where players are on a scale beyond the current system would be immensely and utterly broken, especially in areas where pretty much any other player is out to kill you (read: sov null bears). The ability to immediately tell where players are on a scale beyond the current system would be immensely and utterly broken, especially in areas where pretty much any other player is out to kill you (read: sov null bears). People already have this ability. Players routinely check DotLan and other out of game tools to see which systems have had recent conflict. It's simple intelligence, and there's a big enough of a demand for those tools that people are building them, and using them daily. What I suggest is just to bring those tools in-game and bring them closer to real time. Realistically, you're right. There would be many situations where the notifications from the deployable would become spam. Which would be one of the downsides, along with having to replace them. However, used effectively and actively I think it would be a useful tool. I really just put the idea up here to see the response, but with one exception everything I've seen so far has been less than positive. Thanks for your feedback.
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:03:57 - [18] - Quote Sobaan Tali wrote: For one, PTSD? That's what you called it? That's actually kind of insulting and borderline offensive in all honesty. I apologize if I've offended you. If I'd really been trolling i'd have called it a, "Near-area Echo Resonance Filter"
Sonya Corvinus Static-Noise Upholders 333	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:05:26 - [19] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: Conversely, are you saying " **** players that can't afford multiple monitors"? Or who play on laptops?. Why do you say that? I typically run three clients on a laptop 90% of the time without issue.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16816	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:11:11 - [20] - Quote Also, given that ccp just took the watchlist out the back garden and unceremoniously snuffed it out, why would they go and hand out such an easy intel toll. For clarity, i want better tools to enable me to activly track and hunt players, im also fine with these same tools being used for countering my endevours. Im not ok with it doing so passivly while you do your pi , watch netflix or whatever else ot is that isnot activly using that client. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:12:49 - [21] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Why do you say that? I typically run three clients on a laptop 90% of the time without issue. I frequently run into problems where I have to get mega-creative with my local and window placement in order to see any of the other things I do while flying in EVE. Short list: Evepraisal (checking loot values) Dotlan (planning routes, checking WarDecs, etc) Wormhol.es (identifying WH corp activity) Chruker's EVE-Market (sending fit links to newbros in Slack) System Map (setting destinations) Slack and other OOG chat tools
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16816	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:20:12 - [22] - Quote Though if i could set these up to give off different notes for different systems and have a string if them down the amarr-dodixi pipe so that they play "the girle from iponima" to te rest of my corp e v e r y time a war target went that way youwould be onto a winner. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:32:00 - [23] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Though if i could set these up to give off different notes for different systems and have a string if them down the amarr-dodixi pipe so that they play "the girle from iponima" to te rest of my corp e v e r y time a war target went that way youwould be onto a winner. Okay... I wish I could triple-like this comment.
Sonya Corvinus Static-Noise Upholders 334	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:34:37 - [24] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: I frequently run into problems where I have to get mega-creative with my local and window placement in order to see any of the other things I do while flying in EVE. Short list: Evepraisal (checking loot values) Dotlan (planning routes, checking WarDecs, etc) Wormhol.es (identifying WH corp activity) Chruker's EVE-Market (sending fit links to newbros in Slack) System Map (setting destinations) Slack and other OOG chat tools Not to sound like an ass, but I'm still struggling to see the problem. Everything you just listed (add in tripwire, zkillboard and pirate's little helper to your list also) are just tabs in a browser or simply overlays. You never have to see all those things maximized at once. If you're on a single account you don't need audio pings, you're looking at the screen. If you have multiple accounts it SHOULD be harder to keep track of everything. As a rule I dislike ideas where the game makes up for player effort.
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:47:34 - [25] - Quote At this point, and following Lyra Gerie's comment above, I'm really interested to see how CCP handles surveillance structures. If at all.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16818	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:56:09 - [26] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: At this point, and following Lyra Gerie's comment above, I'm really interested to see how CCP handles surveillance structures. If at all. Likewise, more than you know. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Titus Tallang EVE University Ivy League 175	Posted - 2016.07.12 22:07:23 - [27] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: People already have this ability. Players routinely check DotLan and other out of game tools to see which systems have had recent conflict. It's simple intelligence, and there's a big enough of a demand for those tools that people are building them, and using them daily. What I suggest is just to bring those tools in-game and bring them closer to real time. Emphasis mine, and that's kind of the point. Dotlan telling you "an inty jumped into this adjacent system 10 minutes ago" isn't relevant intel to my bearing carrier because by now that inty has either tackled me or I've successfully bailed because local warning was enough. Having a short-notice warning "beep" telling me "an inty is landing on my ingate at this very moment" completely flips this upside down, because I can immediately begin warping out while the inty still has to go through a (relatively) lengthy deceleration + node change procedure before he can even try to begin warping to me (which is enough of a guesswork factor as is). Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
Jurius Doctor EVE University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2016.07.12 22:28:22 - [28] - Quote Titus Tallang wrote: Having a short-notice warning "beep" telling me "an inty is landing on my ingate at this very moment" completely flips this upside down, because I can immediately begin warping out while the inty still has to go through a (relatively) lengthy deceleration + node change procedure before he can even try to begin warping to me (which is enough of a guesswork factor as is). Again, I wonder at the future development of Surveillance structures in EVE. My idea here was to build an extremely limited use, small-scale, moderate range version of what I theorize the surveillance structures will accomplish. As Gadget and Lyra kind of pointed to: If it was a deployable that had restrictions on placement, skill level, etc, and even then could only directionally scan (say, max FOV of 30 degrees) to a max of 5 AU, and even then could only notify you visually to a maximum range equal to your remote sensing skill, or a portion thereof, you still get something pretty powerful. And as you put it 'flips the game', in exactly the ways you suggest. What about POS or ... citadel-sized anchored structures? What could they see? What intel would they provide? [Edited to add] Let's flip the model a bit. What if instead of a visual pop-up or audio cue, all it did was give you a remote camera with a zoom. What if it actually let you *watch the gate*?
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16819	Posted - 2016.07.12 23:02:27 - [29] - Quote As to the edit, use an alt like the rest of us. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Gadget Helmsdottir Gadget's Workshop 199	Posted - 2016.07.12 23:12:49 - [30] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Though if i could set these up to give off different notes for different systems and have a string if them down the amarr-dodixi pipe so that they play "the girle from iponima" to te rest of my corp e v e r y time a war target went that way youwould be onto a winner. Starts humming some Bossa Nova Damn you, Ralphie! --Pleased yet Annoyed Gadget Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1309	Posted - 2016.07.12 23:25:18 - [31] - Quote Oh my damn, I am playing EVE wrong for a decade now Maybe that comes from starting as solo pvper and frapsing. Always flying around and hoping for the best. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3384	Posted - 2016.07.13 00:17:59 - [32] - Quote Jurius Doctor wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Yup. ** players that pay attention. Conversely, are you saying " ** players that can't afford multiple monitors"? Or who play on laptops? This is me. When you are paying attention you dont need multiple monitors. Why should people not paying attention get something that benefits them so much, whilst people actively playing the game get little to no benefit from it? This idea, like audio notifications for a full ore hold, is asking for hand holding mechanics for afk miners, at the expense of active players. Very disappointing in such a competitive game. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2625	Posted - 2016.07.14 13:21:55 - [33] - Quote I'm fairly sure there is already a program or two that does this for you. Not that I need them, since I pay attention when I am playing Eve. If I cannot be bothered to look at my Eve clients, I dock them up. Crazy thoughts... CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 915	Posted - 2016.07.14 14:35:52 - [34] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Also, given that ccp just took the watchlist out the back garden and unceremoniously snuffed it out, why would they go and hand out such an easy intel toll. For clarity, i want better tools to enable me to activly track and hunt players, im also fine with these same tools being used for countering my endevours. Im not ok with it doing so passivly while you do your pi , watch netflix or whatever else ot is that isnot activly using that client. I understand the thoughts here but to be honest all I see is someone hanging onto the only thread he can find as a reason to not allow this. If we change the notification from an audible one to a visual one as Gadget suggests then it takes the whole AFK boost out of the discussion. Change the notification to visual and remove the audible and I like the concept.
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2964	Posted - 2016.07.14 16:33:58 - [35] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Though if i could set these up to give off different notes for different systems and have a string if them down the amarr-dodixi pipe so that they play "the girle from iponima" to te rest of my corp e v e r y time a war target went that way youwould be onto a winner. Stuff like that make me want to join your corp just to know what kind of stuff you do with the current available options.

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