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Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Because fleets of 50%+ cap ships make for boring gameplay. Noone is willing to take real risks with them, so the amount of actual combat is going to become less and less.
Kuentai Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Because fleets of 50%+ cap ships make for boring gameplay. Noone is willing to take real risks with them, so the amount of actual combat is going to become less and less. Not entirely true, RA are already ahead of the game where capital ship fights are involved. --------------- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) "The good man has few enemies, but the ruthless... None."
Double Stuff Failure Cascade	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:55:00 - [33] Edited by: Double Stuff on 07/03/2007 22:52:33 Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Train your skills, raise some isk, and fly nano-nalgfars. Then go pwn a Titan. The people flying the Titan made the investment, and you shouldn't expect to beat them until you make a similar investment. Until you do, it's just whine, whine, whine. And by the way, welcome to the world of the rest of Eve. A lot of the people whining about Titans and haves and have-nots here are the same people who would be considered "haves" by plenty of other people in Eve. Why are you replying when you've never seen one in action. Assuming you manage to catch a titan more than 2000m from a POS it would take 40 ships just to break the cap recharge to neutral. Then you still have to kill it while being officer smartbombed, shot with capital guns, and its being cap boosted by a mothership or 10.. I've personally seen a Titan w/ 1 mothership take on a 130man fleet and cyno out just fine because its impossible to tackle them. It would take a 1000 ships to kill one that had its own support fleet, multiple motherships, a pos, or another titan working with it. Its just broken. Titans are the worst thing to happen to EvE and will ruin 0.0 warfare very soon. It wont be long now before a certain alliance has 6+ titans and no one can ever take their space. A DD going off every 10 minutes, what fun that will be.
geewiz InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.07 23:11:00 - [34] Having personally seen them in action (and just scraped my ass out of DD's a few times!) a Titan with a few MOMs is the true I-WIN button with eve as things stand. Also being able to jump in and insta fire DD seems a tad bit overpowered don't you think? As cap ships are the only things that can realisitically kill a Supercapital CCP may want to consider bringing in Capital Neuts or Nosferatus to stop them getting out, this ofc has a flip side as if you bring in fleet of Caps all fitted with NOS that would be I-WIN button also lol. I almost think CCP will have to bring in specialist capital sized ships solely for attacking other capitals, WTB Morosnanoceptor !!! I think right now most of eve populace would agree only way to kill a Titan is by "in"famous "high level" of playing sadly. gee
Arkanjuca Caldari The Edge Foundation Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.03.07 23:28:00 - [35] The mere presence of a Titan pilot disencourage any skirmish... im looking to how to adapt to this new kind of warfare, you know, they got tanks and fighters in WW I, but it was too new to be used effectly... tanks where used just to pass over fences -- "he is 10^8 bigger than me, so what?"
Kara Kaprica Minmatar Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.03.08 00:10:00 - [36] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Because fleets of 50%+ cap ships make for boring gameplay. Noone is willing to take real risks with them, so the amount of actual combat is going to become less and less. Yet. When the first guys got in BS, they were rare, really rare. with lvl 5-6-7- missions planned, once you break the capital barrier you will be able to make greater isk and affor to lose these ships. dont forget EVE is an MMO where the people that make it design it to be fun and Keep you playing for longer, because the longer you play, the more you pay. the higher the ceiling is to grow into, the more cash you pay. MMOs all work like that, the dangled carrot gets higher all the time Always Outnumbered. Never Outgunned.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.08 00:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Kara Kaprica with lvl 5-6-7- missions planned, once you break the capital barrier you will be able to make greater isk and affor to lose these ships. I don't have a problem with it myself, I have two characters that can fly cap ships and enough isk to get the ships and replace them. But given that the average player retention rate in EVE is about 10 months, I'm not so sure if is a good thing for game balance, if the only people who can make any difference in large scale PvP are 2-3+ year old characters who can fly cap ships and everyone else is reduced to being glorified cannon fodder. The more common titans become, the closer we are going to get to this situation, however.
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.08 03:41:00 - [38] Originally by: Double Stuff Edited by: Double Stuff on 07/03/2007 22:52:33 Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Train your skills, raise some isk, and fly nano-nalgfars. Then go pwn a Titan. The people flying the Titan made the investment, and you shouldn't expect to beat them until you make a similar investment. Until you do, it's just whine, whine, whine. And by the way, welcome to the world of the rest of Eve. A lot of the people whining about Titans and haves and have-nots here are the same people who would be considered "haves" by plenty of other people in Eve. Why are you replying when you've never seen one in action. Assuming you manage to catch a titan more than 2000m from a POS it would take 40 ships just to break the cap recharge to neutral. Then you still have to kill it while being officer smartbombed, shot with capital guns, and its being cap boosted by a mothership or 10.. I've personally seen a Titan w/ 1 mothership take on a 130man fleet and cyno out just fine because its impossible to tackle them. It would take a 1000 ships to kill one that had its own support fleet, multiple motherships, a pos, or another titan working with it. Its just broken. Titans are the worst thing to happen to EvE and will ruin 0.0 warfare very soon. It wont be long now before a certain alliance has 6+ titans and no one can ever take their space. A DD going off every 10 minutes, what fun that will be. heh, I have seen Titans -- more than one, and probably more than you. It's not broken. So your crap fleet of t1 frigates can't beat a titan -- wah wah wah. Do what everyone else in Eve does and train your skills and raise isk. You know, actually play the REAL game, not the "meta" game we hear so much about from the Goonies and their pets. Until you make the same investment the people with the titans did, you really don't have anything to complain about.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:04:00 - [39] Its easy to fit a t3 bs to tank a titan blast, any kind. double titan blasts are another story, but tanking any indivudual blast is very doable, without even going into structure. You sacrifice a little firepower, but that seems like a small sacrifice in comparison to losing an entire fleet to 1 doomsday. Shamis
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:13:00 - [40] Originally by: Malachon Draco Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/03/2007 21:08:47 Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. You do know what happened to the GM organising the event? From your comment I see you don't... sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more Originally by: Jiekon/CCP If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:19:00 - [41] Other than the seeming innability to kill them short of using metagaming tactics (logoff timer, spys whatever), the problem with Titans are three fold 1) Multiple titans in system. 1 titan is fine. It adds a bit of madness to the fight, and whilst frusturating, it can be countered. But otherwise 1 is OK-ish. Multiples however really seem problematic. We are looking now at scenarios where single alliances can field 3-6 titans meaning a titan blast every 10-20 minutes, or worse, cap ship fleet destroying blasts. Thats not cool at all and I agree may well lead to a verry stagnant battlefield. I think the solution is to restrict titans to 1 per battlefield from ANY alliance (Ie, if my enemy gets his in before me, then Im way out of luck.) Either that or one active DD module (To deal with logouts. If an alliance has multiple titans, then by all mean deploy them along the entrances, and actually try and split forces up. 2) Honestly, it raises the stakes too high. This is why if the titan was supposed to counter blobbage, the evidence so far is that its completely backfired. See JV1V. I think reduce the cost of the things, and nerf them so they are balanced, and they'll finally become a fun part of the battlefield. 3) MAKE THEM KILLABLE! Either get rid of the idiotic remote DD capacity so that the titan has to take a risk to operate, OR make them vunerable to E/War. The E/War invunl makes it a completely riskless investment. Even Stations are constantly at risk, and motherships have been shown to be subject to risk as well. Make the thing vunerable, or at least vunerable just post DD (Ie change the cap, so it cant cyno out , and is vunerable to scramming for 25-30 minutes post blast). Do those things, and Titans will be awesome.
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.08 08:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more a GM known to be corrupt joining the winning team as soon as he have handed out the prizes doesnt sound bad? /offtopic A single titan is not that bad , it is the dual titan team that really is the gamekiller. If you know there is 2 cloaked titans on the grid there is no way that you will ever move a BS fleet to that grid. When you are forced to kill a pos at a spesific time it is very close to impossible to take systems. you'll never jump alone Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.08 08:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Originally by: Malachon Draco Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/03/2007 21:08:47 Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. You do know what happened to the GM organising the event? From your comment I see you don't... sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more Do you know what happened to the CCP employee organising the event, yes or no? -------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.03.08 08:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Originally by: Malachon Draco Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/03/2007 21:08:47 Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. You do know what happened to the GM organising the event? From your comment I see you don't... sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more Do you know what happened to the CCP employee organising the event, yes or no? Take your pills Malachon, the paranoia is getting to you again.
xHomicide Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:11:00 - [45] The titans current design makes them a glass cannon. They are obviously powerful and expensive but stupidly easy to kill if the game breaks and impossible to kill if it doesn't. In an ideal situation without lag or bull****, the titan will always escape. The only realistic way to kill them is to exploit game mechanics (seen twice so far). As the devs have said many many times pilots should have to dedicate themselves to PvP. Basically, a titan should have a WAY larger buffer than it currently does and it should have to dedicate itself to doomsday. It should take 'hours' to kill a titan but it should never be able to escape as it can now. as side note, there really should be a game mechanic that allows ships to be owned by multiple players. Some mechanic that allows someone else to take control of the ship in the middle of the field if the other pilot needs to log. --- Razor CEI
The Treehugger	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:32:00 - [46] Titans and Motherships have very specific uses. A mothership cost about the same as 150 T2 fitted BS's if you where to buy them on the markeds. A titan, cost the same as a sizeble fleet of dreads / carrier. A titan and 3 motherships up against half the ISK value in dreads, would be TOTALY owned. 40 Sieged dreads whould do nasty things to such a fleet. The doomsday weapon will tickle, and it is one hour untill you can do anything with it again. Anyone here that are mad because a battleship and commandship with anti-frig setup can kill loads and loads of T1 frigs?? No, why? because they have bigger ships. Anyone that have put billions upon billions into making a titan and some motherships, got strategic assets. Look at ASCN, they lost what? 14 stations and 150 towers to BOB? That is the equivalent of 3 titans and what? 10-15 mommyships, when it comes to isk? Had they invested in 200 dreads then they would have held theyre space better. Anyone not willing to field a sizable capital fleet, have no buissniess in 0.0 space as owners. They are the renters, slaves and pets. If you want to be an owner, INVEST! like you mean it. If the enemy bring a titan, make sure your side bring 2.. If the enemy comes with 10 dreads , then hit them with 20. The time of the BS are up, long long time ago. The dreads have been in the game for so long, that ANYONE that really wanted one, could get one. There are actually no reason for ANYONE with more than 20 mill SP not to fly a dread, if they are in 0.0 space.
liquidism Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:50:00 - [47] titans in local make good ol' fleet engagements nonexistant. non-capital pilots cant do anything in this time exept hugging a pos, which makes titan/pos warfare ever so boring for 66% of the memberbase
Dark Serval Eve Defence Force Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:57:00 - [48] hardly ever post but The Treehugger is absolutly right here
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:17:00 - [49] making titans uber area of effect guns was the worst thing in eve, the remote DD then is plain stupid (sorry to the guy that had the idea, but yes you were incredbly stupid that day). Titans should have remained like in chronicles a wepon that targets a single ship but obliterate it with 1 shot. If titans could kill a Mom with 1 shot but only it, they would still be very powerfull but not diminish the amount of pvp in game. Currenty the only way to attack a system guarded by 2 Tians is throw 1000 players in system to make the node crash. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! [url=http://j-op.tickyticky.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=37886] [img]http://j-op.tickyticky.net/killboard/?a=sig&
Helina Malinos Caldari Euro Traders	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:18:00 - [50] Blob warefare still remains, more so with forces like the goons using the crash nodes to enter systems without been DD. The titan needs some serious work as the ability to fire threw a cyno means it is potentialy un killable as like Cyvoks one it was only seen in a POS or when it logged off. The titan needs to be changed some thing like, firing threw a cyno means 50% less damage, higher cap requirment to fire, so it can't just jump into a system and kill everyone in range within a few seconds and it needs to not be able to move from where it is for a good 30 seconds to a min, sumit like a propulation reconfiguration etc. Titans don't reduce blob warefare, they promote it as you need more ships to kill it and it can easly move blobs around the map in no time at all. Alliance need to be restricted on how many they can have in some way as very soon strong alliances will have many and mean the average joe will be needing a better income. Titan = diffrent EVE and soem times change is bad, are Titans, I don't know but they need to be forced into the line of sight like dreads are
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Dark Serval hardly ever post but The Treehugger is absolutly right here he is wrong. you cannot compare isk value of ships and say it is balanced. A frigates fleet of the same value as a tech 2 fitted battleship would take the BS down easily. you'll never jump alone Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Cristiana	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:22:00 - [52] Originally by: ALPHA12125 wrong the entire grid. if you can see the titan you are dead we found that out too recently then explain this
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:34:00 - [53] Edited by: k1Lz on 08/03/2007 11:30:43 Now why 90% of ppl complaining about titan abilities are small corporations or alliances with no TITAN ?? Do u gents have any idea how expensive that ships is ?? How much logistic is involved to build something like that ? No u donÆt have a clue because if titan is UBER as a ship on the building part is the most nightmare u ever see, is not about the money is about the pure hard work involved in building one. Secondly before crying that u will be destroyed by a single button AKA DD, ask Goon and RA how they manage in the last 3 big engagements with titan in local to overcome our advantage. Evolve or die, look at the fittings of RA battleships and maybe u will learn something about how to pass a TITAN DD. Double DD atm is restricted to BOB only, and that because THEY PREPARE long time ago for this era. They see what is coming and understand the game evolution, D2 have the same vision just that, they lose one of the TITANs. Stop wining about CCP and the big toys u want a win button way donÆt u try building one and then say is overpower. DELTA is recruiting
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:35:00 - [54] Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:34:02 Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:33:25 Edit - nm BoB vs the coalition of family value's
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:47:00 - [55] Originally by: k1Lz Edited by: k1Lz on 08/03/2007 11:30:43 Double DD atm is restricted to BOB only, and that because THEY PREPARE long time ago for this era. They see what is coming and understand the game evolution, D2 have the same vision just that, they lose one of the TITANs. Stop wining about CCP and the big toys u want a win button way donÆt u try building one and then say is overpower. there is 3 alliances that have come so far that they could had doubble doomsday combo. But look into the future and you will see that there will be a lot more titans in the game by all sides. If the current game mechanic still require you to blob to get sovereignty then, this will be a boring game. You will either get skirmish style encounters in npc regions or cold war tactics elsewhere. Cold war tactics is boring for most of the people involved. you'll never jump alone Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:59:00 - [56] Originally by: k1Lz Edited by: k1Lz on 08/03/2007 11:30:43 Now why 90% of ppl complaining about titan abilities are small corporations or alliances with no TITAN ?? Do u gents have any idea how expensive that ships is ?? How much logistic is involved to build something like that ? No u donÆt have a clue because if titan is UBER as a ship on the building part is the most nightmare u ever see, is not about the money is about the pure hard work involved in building one. Secondly before crying that u will be destroyed by a single button AKA DD, ask Goon and RA how they manage in the last 3 big engagements with titan in local to overcome our advantage. Evolve or die, look at the fittings of RA battleships and maybe u will learn something about how to pass a TITAN DD. Double DD atm is restricted to BOB only, and that because THEY PREPARE long time ago for this era. They see what is coming and understand the game evolution, D2 have the same vision just that, they lose one of the TITANs. Stop wining about CCP and the big toys u want a win button way donÆt u try building one and then say is overpower. I think the main "problem" I have with the titan and with the game as a whole really is that it polarises power in the game. You need to have the logistics and the money to produce one and as soon as you do you become a hell of a lot more powerful because of it. This makes you able to prevent others from both building a titan and holding space in order to make the preperation of a titan feasable. This is a situation that will only get "worse". The day of the battleship seems to be over and with that the day of the noob also seems to be over. The only valid tactic for the low skilled these days seems to be the goon tactic and personally i think that this is bad for the game. On the other hand you need to balance this against what afflicts most mmorg's and that is the retention of older players. Capital ships for sure bring the older players back into the game and i suppose that for that they are a good thing. The thing that worries me now is the apearance of level 5, 6 and 7 missions. Once these kick in it should further increase the devide. How will the player who cannot earn 200 million in an hour keep up with the player that can? To me eve is becoming less about personal skill and more about fiscal ability, and for a game that used to take pride in *****slapping ebayers i find that hard. On a personal level i still love eve, and will keep players, but as someone who used to pvp a lot i have become a lot more carebear .. ah hell maybe i'm just getting old
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.08 12:02:00 - [57] Originally by: fire 59 Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:34:02 Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:33:25 Edit - nm OMG i'm in a BoB thread! Seriosly tho its a shame you guys arn't alowed to post here anymore as i would have definatelly liked BoB POV of this. Ah well.
Jin Steele Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.08 12:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Sorja I have witnessed double doomsday. No BS can survive. On topic, PvP games with 'haves and have not' suck, it's as simple as that. While titans probably need some balancing, they should be much more affordable or removed from the game. They are tools of incredible power and lead to some form of Microsoft Online where the rich get richer and the poor have to suck it up. They also lead to paranoid behaviors, alliance leadership fearing spies, making plans without telling the grunts and, in a nutshell, playing a game that, albeit realistic, is not fun anymore. But don't blame CCP, it's the players who wanted 'the big toys'. Now we have them and indeed a battleship is now what a cruiser was 2 years ago. Excepted losing a tech II Rokh is around 200 millions net loss. Some can make that in a day. Most others can't. Where is the fun, where is the challenge, where is the risk when a player has to push 1 key and annihilate a fleet (who often can't even warp away when the cyno appears because of the lag) ? Actually, there is one ship that can survive a double doomsday and not compromise its setup. The Raven. Yeah it sucks, but i tried it in 9cg, and i didnt die. QUICK, EVERYONE GET RAVENS!
SaorAlba Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:05:00 - [59] Reading this topic I see a lot of you guy's don't get it. The piont is not the building cost or the fact that there are Titans in the game. The piont is the fact the other players have become "useless" in the defense of your system. What fun is it to be DD'ed? There are no fleet fights anymore. No more parading infront of a station or Pos. No more gate camps you can break. It becomes useless with a titan lurking around. Titans are fun killers. This game should have a place for all players to participate in home defense. Titans have totally broken game mechanics and the more we see entering the game the worse it get. FIX your game CCP! Get rid of this strontium timing crappoholics and remote I win buttons.
III LightBringer Death by Drones	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:38:00 - [60] The titan needs only a few minor changes. 1: The Doomsday should eat 100% cap with a skill reducing it by 3% / level. 2: The Doomsday should have greater range when fired through a cyno-portal, but loose effect based on range. 3: They need to make them unable to cloak. 4: They need to make it so they can be operated by multiple pilots. (safe transfer in battlezone / trade)

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