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Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.07 16:41:00 - [1] I am interested in the effect the titan has had on fleet deployment and manuvers in the new eve. Has the titan effectivelly brought about the end of the blob as we know it? Certainly i would have thought the days of sitting in one group for an indefinate amount of time are over, but i imagine several smaller groups can still be used effectivelly in the same system. POS warfare for instance. Is a pos now attacked from several points accross the x and y axis, so that they can maintain distance to target while preventing wholesale doomsday destruction should they be caught out? This tactic seems like the most easy to get right to me do to one of the smaller blobs being able to warp to one of the others and still maintain distance from target. The fleet could very easily be got together at one point inside of thirty seconds incase of a largescale assault on them. Has the traditional gatecap changed also? With the new jump portals a gatecap becomes both more vunerable to doomsdaying and less useful do to the ability to bring fleets into the sytem already. Anyways, i was just interested in peoples thoughts and what they have found in this climate of war of the titans.
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.07 16:45:00 - [2] Blobs still crash nodes. Crash enough nodes and you can't be doomsdayed.
Harry McWayne	Posted - 2007.03.07 16:48:00 - [3] snip Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. - Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.03.07 16:56:00 - [4] Spreading out around a POS won't help if you're DD'd, I believe--unless I'm mistaken, the DD effect nukes the entire grid. As for the rest, I don't have the experience to answer. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Sorela Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.07 16:56:00 - [5] From what I've seen it hasn't done anything to discourage blobing if that's primarily what you are asking. My experience is limited so far but from what I've seen blobbing will not stop simply because it's dangerous to do so. The reasons blobbing happens are far more complicated than the simple need to shoot at your opponent with the most ships possible. Bookmarks, aligning, the warp tunnel etc etc are all things that exacerbate the problem.
BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:05:00 - [6] The reason for blobs stems from the sovereignity mechanics. People will not stop flying in blobs unless those change. It's just that with Titans they will be forced to get a new ship more often. If titans were indeed meant to be a way to reduce blobs, it's something that attacks the symptoms and not the cause. Btw, it would be nice if the DD's cap was adjusted upwards. Before the cap boost some patches ago, a Titan could not fire a DD and immediately cyno away, making it killable in a realistic battle scenario. However, cap got buffed but the DD cap requirement stayed the same. This means that a Titan is a tool that totally negates movement in the battlefield without any real risks involved, apart from tricks involving aggro timers and spies. Imho, titans should be a easier to kill, with an appropriate adjustment made to lower their cost and build time. As they stand now, they mostly lead to a stagnating battlefield, as if POS mechanics wasn't forcing a static enough state of affairs. Unfortunately, we are playing a space game that revolves around medieval tactics. Lot's of sieging going on at predetermined times, trench warfare and the odd big cannon (aka DD) thrown in. Thankfully CCP said they are looking for more ways to affect stations, i can't wait for mechanics that will allow proper interdiction behind enemy lines and crippling production, research, cloning etc. Originally by: Eloryan Persago, Goonfleet I welcome you to the coalition of people with user access to EvE
Izzy Pol Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Spreading out around a POS won't help if you're DD'd, I believe--unless I'm mistaken, the DD effect nukes the entire grid. 250km, no more, no less.
ALPHA12125 Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Izzy Pol Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Spreading out around a POS won't help if you're DD'd, I believe--unless I'm mistaken, the DD effect nukes the entire grid. 250km, no more, no less. wrong the entire grid. if you can see the titan you are dead we found that out too recently
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:16:00 - [9] Edited by: Fubear on 07/03/2007 17:13:01 The more Titans are introduced into the game, the less relevant the Battleship becomes in the grand scheme of things. Once battles start being fought with 5-10 Titans on each side, you may as well not bother with 0.0 combat until you have 20Mil SP and can fly a Carrier or Dread. Titans are one of the worst things ever to be introduced to the game, and CCP really don't appear to give a sht.
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:27:00 - [10] Titans are the first step. Remove the silly 60 second (i think?) delay on DD and let then decimate fleets. Second stop is to split the large single objective that is pos warefare into many much smaller ovjectives. Kill the blob -----
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:31:00 - [11] In a word, fleet warfare in the "titan age" sucks. POS warfare sucks, also. Titans may not discourage blobbing, but they definitey discourage fights. Frankly, I wish both (titans and POS, at least in their current forms) would go away.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.07 18:21:00 - [12] Titans as a ship makes engagements less likely. You need work on your gameplan when you fight in a system with titan(s) deployed so it's still possible but generally they will mean less actual combat. From my experience so far anyway :)
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.07 18:34:00 - [13] I second that. You are all lazy if you won't fight someone with a titan.
TasmanianX E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.07 18:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Megan Maynard I second that. You are all lazy if you won't fight someone with a titan. Funny, i see lots of people in this thread who I KNOW have experiences fighting against titans, and they seem to share the same view. What exactly is YOUR experience against Titans again?
Solicitude Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.03.07 18:44:00 - [15] snip Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. - Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.07 18:45:00 - [16] Rule of Three: I trying to introduce you to the Titan. Let me work on HC alittle more and I might be helpful enough for you to taste it. Clankiller
Karrimdra FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.07 18:50:00 - [17] Originally by: TasmanianX Edited by: TasmanianX on 07/03/2007 18:38:25 Originally by: Megan Maynard I second that. You are all lazy if you won't fight someone with a titan. Funny, I see lots of people in this thread who I KNOW have experiences fighting against titans, and they seem to share the same view. What exactly is YOUR experience against Titans again? They have been doomsdayed at least once. They are not completely without titan experience. From nothing to something in just one corp!
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.07 19:02:00 - [18] Edited by: Adam C on 07/03/2007 19:03:01 an interesting discussion Right Now - PRE-Sov changes and PRE-Revelations 2.0+ Leads us on a ticking clock of 10's of titans 10's of motherships even a 100' dreds is easy with simple coalitions in a potential engagement. The discussion is short-sighted (though still interesting) and implying ccp doesnt have Revelations expensions coming out (after all its their stinking brain child) It does however set expectations. Revelations 2.0+ will need to address. Otherwise certain alliances in 0.0 will be untakable.* However the comeback arguement is; (1) Power of ISK. Players will mess with server performance/internal stuff to their advantage!
Psykoman Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc	Posted - 2007.03.07 19:10:00 - [19] Edited by: Psykoman on 07/03/2007 19:07:44 Originally by: ALPHA12125 Originally by: Izzy Pol Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Spreading out around a POS won't help if you're DD'd, I believe--unless I'm mistaken, the DD effect nukes the entire grid. 250km, no more, no less. wrong the entire grid. if you can see the titan you are dead we found that out too recently wrong. I saw the titan and DD and i'm still alive. The problem of Titan is when your DD is well executed, there are nothing more to shoot for the BS fleet. that is boring.
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.07 19:12:00 - [20] Quote: wrong. I saw the titan and DD and i'm still alive. Were you entering warp? Everyone says something different on range of DD... In general, if you see a titan I think you are screwed ;P
Psykoman Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc	Posted - 2007.03.07 19:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Tunajuice Quote: wrong. I saw the titan and DD and i'm still alive. Were you entering warp? Everyone says something different on range of DD... In general, if you see a titan I think you are screwed ;P No. I waited. just watched the DD.
SaorAlba Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.07 19:39:00 - [22] Titans totally kill the fun for the average guy. CCP is clueless when it comes to game mechanics or balancing. First we receive T2 ammo and everybody starts to snipe dividing the "noob bs pilot" from the well trained T2 bs pilot who is now placed out of the fleet battle. New players who originally recieved the role of tackler are now sniping meat for Eagles. They were placed out the game too. CCP then took the nerf bat smack up to the T2 ammo introducing nanno schips in the same swing. Meanwhile more and more titans appear with more and more cap who can't be found cloaked nor killed ever since all EW is rendered void and the DD can be fired remote. So before the Titan we had long and short range battles infront of POS under horrible laggy conditions but atleast we had some cookies. Now we see very large groups of dreads covered by motherships (long range shield, cap and armor boosting under fighter protection) with an Titan cloaked at a safe waiting for U to worp in to get nuked away without any change. Well CCP this makes the new and old time players happy, double strike. You can fit maybe one ship to survive one blast but forget about two DD at once. So now the compleet fleet is rendered useless and all T2 bs pilots are training up to fly a capital!! Simply brilliant CCP Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners?
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.07 19:52:00 - [23] Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. Originally by: Jiekon/CCP If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Firane 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.07 20:04:00 - [24] Originally by: ALPHA12125 Originally by: Izzy Pol Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Spreading out around a POS won't help if you're DD'd, I believe--unless I'm mistaken, the DD effect nukes the entire grid. 250km, no more, no less. wrong the entire grid. if you can see the titan you are dead we found that out too recently Actually hes right. I was on grid during that engagement and wasn't hit at 350km. -----
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.07 21:12:00 - [25] Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/03/2007 21:08:47 Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. You do know what happened to the GM organising the event? From your comment I see you don't... -------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft.
Kuentai Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.03.07 21:23:00 - [26] Titan - quarter damage through remote cyno, can't activate within 50km of a pos, can't move for 2 min after activation. A tad harsh, but should sort out the current no risk situation, giving people a chance to tackle those beasts other than with spys and bugs. As for motherships, don't see anything wrong with them myself. --------------- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) "The good man has few enemies, but the ruthless... None."
Nostic	Posted - 2007.03.07 21:38:00 - [27] At the moment it simply means that 2 blobs are required where previously 1 would be sufficient. In 6 months it will mean that anyone who isn't in a capital ship won't be able to participate in territory warfare. There will be no point bringing a battleship that takes several hours worth of ratting/mining to buy, fit, and fly into position, just to lose it to some guy clicking a button once at no risk to himself.
karumba	Posted - 2007.03.07 21:57:00 - [28] 2 hardeners of the right type make a bs immune to titan. Titans are overrated. Cuddly carebear tools imo.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:02:00 - [29] Edited by: Shirei on 07/03/2007 22:01:56 Originally by: karumba 2 hardeners of the right type make a bs immune to titan. This is when the second titan in system appears. It only works as long as you are sure you know which race's titan you are up against in advance. Also, the support fleet the titan will have warping in briefly after the DD will have fun shooting down the remaining 50% structure ships. In any case, titans make it viable to have fleets consisting almost exclusively of capital ships. So they accelerate the existing trend towards ever larger ships by drastically reducing the threat BS fleets have posed to pure cap fleets previously. As such they largely obsolete the ships flown by a large proportion of the player base for larger scale PvP (until you get to scales where the nodes start a-droppin).
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:35:00 - [30] Why are people whining? Train your skills, raise some isk, and fly nano-nalgfars. Then go pwn a Titan. The people flying the Titan made the investment, and you shouldn't expect to beat them until you make a similar investment. Until you do, it's just whine, whine, whine. And by the way, welcome to the world of the rest of Eve. A lot of the people whining about Titans and haves and have-nots here are the same people who would be considered "haves" by plenty of other people in Eve.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Because fleets of 50%+ cap ships make for boring gameplay. Noone is willing to take real risks with them, so the amount of actual combat is going to become less and less.
Kuentai Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Because fleets of 50%+ cap ships make for boring gameplay. Noone is willing to take real risks with them, so the amount of actual combat is going to become less and less. Not entirely true, RA are already ahead of the game where capital ship fights are involved. --------------- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) "The good man has few enemies, but the ruthless... None."
Double Stuff Failure Cascade	Posted - 2007.03.07 22:55:00 - [33] Edited by: Double Stuff on 07/03/2007 22:52:33 Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Train your skills, raise some isk, and fly nano-nalgfars. Then go pwn a Titan. The people flying the Titan made the investment, and you shouldn't expect to beat them until you make a similar investment. Until you do, it's just whine, whine, whine. And by the way, welcome to the world of the rest of Eve. A lot of the people whining about Titans and haves and have-nots here are the same people who would be considered "haves" by plenty of other people in Eve. Why are you replying when you've never seen one in action. Assuming you manage to catch a titan more than 2000m from a POS it would take 40 ships just to break the cap recharge to neutral. Then you still have to kill it while being officer smartbombed, shot with capital guns, and its being cap boosted by a mothership or 10.. I've personally seen a Titan w/ 1 mothership take on a 130man fleet and cyno out just fine because its impossible to tackle them. It would take a 1000 ships to kill one that had its own support fleet, multiple motherships, a pos, or another titan working with it. Its just broken. Titans are the worst thing to happen to EvE and will ruin 0.0 warfare very soon. It wont be long now before a certain alliance has 6+ titans and no one can ever take their space. A DD going off every 10 minutes, what fun that will be.
geewiz InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.07 23:11:00 - [34] Having personally seen them in action (and just scraped my ass out of DD's a few times!) a Titan with a few MOMs is the true I-WIN button with eve as things stand. Also being able to jump in and insta fire DD seems a tad bit overpowered don't you think? As cap ships are the only things that can realisitically kill a Supercapital CCP may want to consider bringing in Capital Neuts or Nosferatus to stop them getting out, this ofc has a flip side as if you bring in fleet of Caps all fitted with NOS that would be I-WIN button also lol. I almost think CCP will have to bring in specialist capital sized ships solely for attacking other capitals, WTB Morosnanoceptor !!! I think right now most of eve populace would agree only way to kill a Titan is by "in"famous "high level" of playing sadly. gee
Arkanjuca Caldari The Edge Foundation Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.03.07 23:28:00 - [35] The mere presence of a Titan pilot disencourage any skirmish... im looking to how to adapt to this new kind of warfare, you know, they got tanks and fighters in WW I, but it was too new to be used effectly... tanks where used just to pass over fences -- "he is 10^8 bigger than me, so what?"
Kara Kaprica Minmatar Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.03.08 00:10:00 - [36] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Because fleets of 50%+ cap ships make for boring gameplay. Noone is willing to take real risks with them, so the amount of actual combat is going to become less and less. Yet. When the first guys got in BS, they were rare, really rare. with lvl 5-6-7- missions planned, once you break the capital barrier you will be able to make greater isk and affor to lose these ships. dont forget EVE is an MMO where the people that make it design it to be fun and Keep you playing for longer, because the longer you play, the more you pay. the higher the ceiling is to grow into, the more cash you pay. MMOs all work like that, the dangled carrot gets higher all the time Always Outnumbered. Never Outgunned.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.08 00:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Kara Kaprica with lvl 5-6-7- missions planned, once you break the capital barrier you will be able to make greater isk and affor to lose these ships. I don't have a problem with it myself, I have two characters that can fly cap ships and enough isk to get the ships and replace them. But given that the average player retention rate in EVE is about 10 months, I'm not so sure if is a good thing for game balance, if the only people who can make any difference in large scale PvP are 2-3+ year old characters who can fly cap ships and everyone else is reduced to being glorified cannon fodder. The more common titans become, the closer we are going to get to this situation, however.
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.08 03:41:00 - [38] Originally by: Double Stuff Edited by: Double Stuff on 07/03/2007 22:52:33 Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Why are people whining? Train your skills, raise some isk, and fly nano-nalgfars. Then go pwn a Titan. The people flying the Titan made the investment, and you shouldn't expect to beat them until you make a similar investment. Until you do, it's just whine, whine, whine. And by the way, welcome to the world of the rest of Eve. A lot of the people whining about Titans and haves and have-nots here are the same people who would be considered "haves" by plenty of other people in Eve. Why are you replying when you've never seen one in action. Assuming you manage to catch a titan more than 2000m from a POS it would take 40 ships just to break the cap recharge to neutral. Then you still have to kill it while being officer smartbombed, shot with capital guns, and its being cap boosted by a mothership or 10.. I've personally seen a Titan w/ 1 mothership take on a 130man fleet and cyno out just fine because its impossible to tackle them. It would take a 1000 ships to kill one that had its own support fleet, multiple motherships, a pos, or another titan working with it. Its just broken. Titans are the worst thing to happen to EvE and will ruin 0.0 warfare very soon. It wont be long now before a certain alliance has 6+ titans and no one can ever take their space. A DD going off every 10 minutes, what fun that will be. heh, I have seen Titans -- more than one, and probably more than you. It's not broken. So your crap fleet of t1 frigates can't beat a titan -- wah wah wah. Do what everyone else in Eve does and train your skills and raise isk. You know, actually play the REAL game, not the "meta" game we hear so much about from the Goonies and their pets. Until you make the same investment the people with the titans did, you really don't have anything to complain about.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:04:00 - [39] Its easy to fit a t3 bs to tank a titan blast, any kind. double titan blasts are another story, but tanking any indivudual blast is very doable, without even going into structure. You sacrifice a little firepower, but that seems like a small sacrifice in comparison to losing an entire fleet to 1 doomsday. Shamis
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:13:00 - [40] Originally by: Malachon Draco Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/03/2007 21:08:47 Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. You do know what happened to the GM organising the event? From your comment I see you don't... sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more Originally by: Jiekon/CCP If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:19:00 - [41] Other than the seeming innability to kill them short of using metagaming tactics (logoff timer, spys whatever), the problem with Titans are three fold 1) Multiple titans in system. 1 titan is fine. It adds a bit of madness to the fight, and whilst frusturating, it can be countered. But otherwise 1 is OK-ish. Multiples however really seem problematic. We are looking now at scenarios where single alliances can field 3-6 titans meaning a titan blast every 10-20 minutes, or worse, cap ship fleet destroying blasts. Thats not cool at all and I agree may well lead to a verry stagnant battlefield. I think the solution is to restrict titans to 1 per battlefield from ANY alliance (Ie, if my enemy gets his in before me, then Im way out of luck.) Either that or one active DD module (To deal with logouts. If an alliance has multiple titans, then by all mean deploy them along the entrances, and actually try and split forces up. 2) Honestly, it raises the stakes too high. This is why if the titan was supposed to counter blobbage, the evidence so far is that its completely backfired. See JV1V. I think reduce the cost of the things, and nerf them so they are balanced, and they'll finally become a fun part of the battlefield. 3) MAKE THEM KILLABLE! Either get rid of the idiotic remote DD capacity so that the titan has to take a risk to operate, OR make them vunerable to E/War. The E/War invunl makes it a completely riskless investment. Even Stations are constantly at risk, and motherships have been shown to be subject to risk as well. Make the thing vunerable, or at least vunerable just post DD (Ie change the cap, so it cant cyno out , and is vunerable to scramming for 25-30 minutes post blast). Do those things, and Titans will be awesome.
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.08 08:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more a GM known to be corrupt joining the winning team as soon as he have handed out the prizes doesnt sound bad? /offtopic A single titan is not that bad , it is the dual titan team that really is the gamekiller. If you know there is 2 cloaked titans on the grid there is no way that you will ever move a BS fleet to that grid. When you are forced to kill a pos at a spesific time it is very close to impossible to take systems. you'll never jump alone Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.08 08:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Originally by: Malachon Draco Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/03/2007 21:08:47 Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. You do know what happened to the GM organising the event? From your comment I see you don't... sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more Do you know what happened to the CCP employee organising the event, yes or no? -------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.03.08 08:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Originally by: Malachon Draco Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/03/2007 21:08:47 Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/03/2007 19:49:25 Originally by: SaorAlba Funny thing is CCP handing out several Motherschips and carriers each year to winners of the Championships. We all know that nobody but Bod won them every year over and over again. Purely by shear skills and superoir tactics offcourse. Wanne bet they throw in a titan for this years winners? Here is a clue...attend the next championship, and win....If you think you have the skill to win go for it, instead of complaining about those who are much better than you in Player combat, and actually attend and win. And stop the tinfoil conspiracy theories...... Oyher than that, yes, Titans and motherships need tweeking. You do know what happened to the GM organising the event? From your comment I see you don't... sigh.............. The championship is attended by many players, and watched by even more Do you know what happened to the CCP employee organising the event, yes or no? Take your pills Malachon, the paranoia is getting to you again.
xHomicide Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:11:00 - [45] The titans current design makes them a glass cannon. They are obviously powerful and expensive but stupidly easy to kill if the game breaks and impossible to kill if it doesn't. In an ideal situation without lag or bull****, the titan will always escape. The only realistic way to kill them is to exploit game mechanics (seen twice so far). As the devs have said many many times pilots should have to dedicate themselves to PvP. Basically, a titan should have a WAY larger buffer than it currently does and it should have to dedicate itself to doomsday. It should take 'hours' to kill a titan but it should never be able to escape as it can now. as side note, there really should be a game mechanic that allows ships to be owned by multiple players. Some mechanic that allows someone else to take control of the ship in the middle of the field if the other pilot needs to log. --- Razor CEI
The Treehugger	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:32:00 - [46] Titans and Motherships have very specific uses. A mothership cost about the same as 150 T2 fitted BS's if you where to buy them on the markeds. A titan, cost the same as a sizeble fleet of dreads / carrier. A titan and 3 motherships up against half the ISK value in dreads, would be TOTALY owned. 40 Sieged dreads whould do nasty things to such a fleet. The doomsday weapon will tickle, and it is one hour untill you can do anything with it again. Anyone here that are mad because a battleship and commandship with anti-frig setup can kill loads and loads of T1 frigs?? No, why? because they have bigger ships. Anyone that have put billions upon billions into making a titan and some motherships, got strategic assets. Look at ASCN, they lost what? 14 stations and 150 towers to BOB? That is the equivalent of 3 titans and what? 10-15 mommyships, when it comes to isk? Had they invested in 200 dreads then they would have held theyre space better. Anyone not willing to field a sizable capital fleet, have no buissniess in 0.0 space as owners. They are the renters, slaves and pets. If you want to be an owner, INVEST! like you mean it. If the enemy bring a titan, make sure your side bring 2.. If the enemy comes with 10 dreads , then hit them with 20. The time of the BS are up, long long time ago. The dreads have been in the game for so long, that ANYONE that really wanted one, could get one. There are actually no reason for ANYONE with more than 20 mill SP not to fly a dread, if they are in 0.0 space.
liquidism Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:50:00 - [47] titans in local make good ol' fleet engagements nonexistant. non-capital pilots cant do anything in this time exept hugging a pos, which makes titan/pos warfare ever so boring for 66% of the memberbase
Dark Serval Eve Defence Force Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:57:00 - [48] hardly ever post but The Treehugger is absolutly right here
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:17:00 - [49] making titans uber area of effect guns was the worst thing in eve, the remote DD then is plain stupid (sorry to the guy that had the idea, but yes you were incredbly stupid that day). Titans should have remained like in chronicles a wepon that targets a single ship but obliterate it with 1 shot. If titans could kill a Mom with 1 shot but only it, they would still be very powerfull but not diminish the amount of pvp in game. Currenty the only way to attack a system guarded by 2 Tians is throw 1000 players in system to make the node crash. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! [url=http://j-op.tickyticky.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=37886] [img]http://j-op.tickyticky.net/killboard/?a=sig&
Helina Malinos Caldari Euro Traders	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:18:00 - [50] Blob warefare still remains, more so with forces like the goons using the crash nodes to enter systems without been DD. The titan needs some serious work as the ability to fire threw a cyno means it is potentialy un killable as like Cyvoks one it was only seen in a POS or when it logged off. The titan needs to be changed some thing like, firing threw a cyno means 50% less damage, higher cap requirment to fire, so it can't just jump into a system and kill everyone in range within a few seconds and it needs to not be able to move from where it is for a good 30 seconds to a min, sumit like a propulation reconfiguration etc. Titans don't reduce blob warefare, they promote it as you need more ships to kill it and it can easly move blobs around the map in no time at all. Alliance need to be restricted on how many they can have in some way as very soon strong alliances will have many and mean the average joe will be needing a better income. Titan = diffrent EVE and soem times change is bad, are Titans, I don't know but they need to be forced into the line of sight like dreads are
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Dark Serval hardly ever post but The Treehugger is absolutly right here he is wrong. you cannot compare isk value of ships and say it is balanced. A frigates fleet of the same value as a tech 2 fitted battleship would take the BS down easily. you'll never jump alone Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Cristiana	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:22:00 - [52] Originally by: ALPHA12125 wrong the entire grid. if you can see the titan you are dead we found that out too recently then explain this
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:34:00 - [53] Edited by: k1Lz on 08/03/2007 11:30:43 Now why 90% of ppl complaining about titan abilities are small corporations or alliances with no TITAN ?? Do u gents have any idea how expensive that ships is ?? How much logistic is involved to build something like that ? No u donÆt have a clue because if titan is UBER as a ship on the building part is the most nightmare u ever see, is not about the money is about the pure hard work involved in building one. Secondly before crying that u will be destroyed by a single button AKA DD, ask Goon and RA how they manage in the last 3 big engagements with titan in local to overcome our advantage. Evolve or die, look at the fittings of RA battleships and maybe u will learn something about how to pass a TITAN DD. Double DD atm is restricted to BOB only, and that because THEY PREPARE long time ago for this era. They see what is coming and understand the game evolution, D2 have the same vision just that, they lose one of the TITANs. Stop wining about CCP and the big toys u want a win button way donÆt u try building one and then say is overpower. DELTA is recruiting
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:35:00 - [54] Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:34:02 Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:33:25 Edit - nm BoB vs the coalition of family value's
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:47:00 - [55] Originally by: k1Lz Edited by: k1Lz on 08/03/2007 11:30:43 Double DD atm is restricted to BOB only, and that because THEY PREPARE long time ago for this era. They see what is coming and understand the game evolution, D2 have the same vision just that, they lose one of the TITANs. Stop wining about CCP and the big toys u want a win button way donÆt u try building one and then say is overpower. there is 3 alliances that have come so far that they could had doubble doomsday combo. But look into the future and you will see that there will be a lot more titans in the game by all sides. If the current game mechanic still require you to blob to get sovereignty then, this will be a boring game. You will either get skirmish style encounters in npc regions or cold war tactics elsewhere. Cold war tactics is boring for most of the people involved. you'll never jump alone Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:59:00 - [56] Originally by: k1Lz Edited by: k1Lz on 08/03/2007 11:30:43 Now why 90% of ppl complaining about titan abilities are small corporations or alliances with no TITAN ?? Do u gents have any idea how expensive that ships is ?? How much logistic is involved to build something like that ? No u donÆt have a clue because if titan is UBER as a ship on the building part is the most nightmare u ever see, is not about the money is about the pure hard work involved in building one. Secondly before crying that u will be destroyed by a single button AKA DD, ask Goon and RA how they manage in the last 3 big engagements with titan in local to overcome our advantage. Evolve or die, look at the fittings of RA battleships and maybe u will learn something about how to pass a TITAN DD. Double DD atm is restricted to BOB only, and that because THEY PREPARE long time ago for this era. They see what is coming and understand the game evolution, D2 have the same vision just that, they lose one of the TITANs. Stop wining about CCP and the big toys u want a win button way donÆt u try building one and then say is overpower. I think the main "problem" I have with the titan and with the game as a whole really is that it polarises power in the game. You need to have the logistics and the money to produce one and as soon as you do you become a hell of a lot more powerful because of it. This makes you able to prevent others from both building a titan and holding space in order to make the preperation of a titan feasable. This is a situation that will only get "worse". The day of the battleship seems to be over and with that the day of the noob also seems to be over. The only valid tactic for the low skilled these days seems to be the goon tactic and personally i think that this is bad for the game. On the other hand you need to balance this against what afflicts most mmorg's and that is the retention of older players. Capital ships for sure bring the older players back into the game and i suppose that for that they are a good thing. The thing that worries me now is the apearance of level 5, 6 and 7 missions. Once these kick in it should further increase the devide. How will the player who cannot earn 200 million in an hour keep up with the player that can? To me eve is becoming less about personal skill and more about fiscal ability, and for a game that used to take pride in *****slapping ebayers i find that hard. On a personal level i still love eve, and will keep players, but as someone who used to pvp a lot i have become a lot more carebear .. ah hell maybe i'm just getting old
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.08 12:02:00 - [57] Originally by: fire 59 Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:34:02 Edited by: fire 59 on 08/03/2007 11:33:25 Edit - nm OMG i'm in a BoB thread! Seriosly tho its a shame you guys arn't alowed to post here anymore as i would have definatelly liked BoB POV of this. Ah well.
Jin Steele Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.08 12:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Sorja I have witnessed double doomsday. No BS can survive. On topic, PvP games with 'haves and have not' suck, it's as simple as that. While titans probably need some balancing, they should be much more affordable or removed from the game. They are tools of incredible power and lead to some form of Microsoft Online where the rich get richer and the poor have to suck it up. They also lead to paranoid behaviors, alliance leadership fearing spies, making plans without telling the grunts and, in a nutshell, playing a game that, albeit realistic, is not fun anymore. But don't blame CCP, it's the players who wanted 'the big toys'. Now we have them and indeed a battleship is now what a cruiser was 2 years ago. Excepted losing a tech II Rokh is around 200 millions net loss. Some can make that in a day. Most others can't. Where is the fun, where is the challenge, where is the risk when a player has to push 1 key and annihilate a fleet (who often can't even warp away when the cyno appears because of the lag) ? Actually, there is one ship that can survive a double doomsday and not compromise its setup. The Raven. Yeah it sucks, but i tried it in 9cg, and i didnt die. QUICK, EVERYONE GET RAVENS!
SaorAlba Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:05:00 - [59] Reading this topic I see a lot of you guy's don't get it. The piont is not the building cost or the fact that there are Titans in the game. The piont is the fact the other players have become "useless" in the defense of your system. What fun is it to be DD'ed? There are no fleet fights anymore. No more parading infront of a station or Pos. No more gate camps you can break. It becomes useless with a titan lurking around. Titans are fun killers. This game should have a place for all players to participate in home defense. Titans have totally broken game mechanics and the more we see entering the game the worse it get. FIX your game CCP! Get rid of this strontium timing crappoholics and remote I win buttons.
III LightBringer Death by Drones	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:38:00 - [60] The titan needs only a few minor changes. 1: The Doomsday should eat 100% cap with a skill reducing it by 3% / level. 2: The Doomsday should have greater range when fired through a cyno-portal, but loose effect based on range. 3: They need to make them unable to cloak. 4: They need to make it so they can be operated by multiple pilots. (safe transfer in battlezone / trade)
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.08 14:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Currenty the only way to attack a system guarded by 2 Tians is throw 1000 players in system to make the node crash. Wrong. Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. The Goonies and the pets arguing that titans need nerfing is laughable. Sorry -- a gang of gnats does not get to kill an elephant. If you want to drop an elephant, bring an elephant gun to the fight. If they paid as much attention to the real game as to the "meta" game, maybe the Goonies and their pets wouldn't be here whining as much on the boards.
Izzy Pol Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek	Posted - 2007.03.08 14:42:00 - [62] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Originally by: Kagura Nikon Currenty the only way to attack a system guarded by 2 Tians is throw 1000 players in system to make the node crash. Wrong. Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. Hes wrong and so are you imo. This game needs to be accessable to all, not the leet few.
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.08 14:51:00 - [63] Originally by: Izzy Pol Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Originally by: Kagura Nikon Currenty the only way to attack a system guarded by 2 Tians is throw 1000 players in system to make the node crash. Wrong. Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. Hes wrong and so are you imo. This game needs to be accessable to all, not the leet few. Cool! So when battleships and carriers and whatnot came out, I guess you and all the others were screaming about how they weren't fair. After all, battleships and carriers have certainly changed fleet fights -- can't really have fleet fights in 0.0 without them. Let's nerf them too! In fact, let's get back to the counterstrike l33t-boy model the Goonies all love, since they don't give a crap about Eve. It's not the real game of Eve they enjoy -- it's the "meta game" of MMOs, and breaking them is what they do. So let's nerf all differences in skill and isk progression and bring it all back to the masses! Let the better wall-hack win! (And the Goonies know all about hacking for the win)
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:03:00 - [64] Edited by: Fubear on 08/03/2007 15:00:40 Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. The Goonies and the pets arguing that titans need nerfing is laughable. Sorry -- a gang of gnats does not get to kill an elephant. If you want to drop an elephant, bring an elephant gun to the fight. So you believe that all pilots should be excluded from Alliance warfare until they have been playing the game for at least a year and can afford to fly ships that cost billions each regularly in PvP? Your comments about the Goons & Co is proof that you either didn't read the thread before mashing the reply button or are monumentally retarded. The Goons have just finished destroying an alliance with a Titan, D2 have a Titan of their own. These entities are the people who are most qualified to talk on the subject of Titan warfare because they have experianced both sides of it. I gave up alliance/POS warfare a long time ago to run production. I didn't like the fact that you needed a blob to defend a POS, and a bigger blob to assault one leading to 'who has the biggest blob' warfare. Now if one side has a Titan and the other does not, one side can blob and the other cannot allowing one person to massively unbalance what was previously a shtty but playable game mechanism (POS wars). I would hate to fly 20+ jumps to fight only to find myself and 70% of the fleet in a POD because one person pressed a button. The only way around it is to bring ships that can tank the DD (BS), and eventually ships that can tank multiple DD's (Carriers/Dreads), which cuts out 90% of the games population from alliance warfare. This is not a good thing.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:17:00 - [65] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Originally by: Kagura Nikon Currenty the only way to attack a system guarded by 2 Tians is throw 1000 players in system to make the node crash. Wrong. Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. The Goonies and the pets arguing that titans need nerfing is laughable. Sorry -- a gang of gnats does not get to kill an elephant. If you want to drop an elephant, bring an elephant gun to the fight. If they paid as much attention to the real game as to the "meta" game, maybe the Goonies and their pets wouldn't be here whining as much on the boards. ok then you move your fleet of dreadnaughts only and teh enemy throw a dozen BS at you and you loose billions... then send ecort to the dreads.. ooops the escort is vaporized by the DD. Its fact that titans encourages blobing. CCP must move the POS docked arrays and guns all to outisde the shield. So small gangs can make attacks and DD right upon a POS would not be a feasible defensive tactic. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
TitusFlamininus Ars ex Discordia Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:17:00 - [66] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Originally by: Kagura Nikon Currenty the only way to attack a system guarded by 2 Tians is throw 1000 players in system to make the node crash. Wrong. Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. The two of you are wrong. Battleships as well as Commandships can tank a dual DD blast. But this argument is moot, once more than 2 Titans are available. The main problem with Titans is two fold: -They are uncatchable -They are extremely vulnerable to log-off metagaming since they can't dock in stations The first point can be countered if CCP would finally release cap ship sized Capacitor Neutralizers as well as cap ship sized warp disruptors. It should be possible to kill a MS or a Titan other than via extremely gamey bumping . And a second MS filled to the brim with cap transfer arrays can bail any troubled MS/Titan easily (Props to BOB for saving thier Titan this way). The second point can be countered by a simple Pop-Up when logging out informing about any kind of aggression timers still running.
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.08 16:20:00 - [67] Originally by: Kagura Nikon ok then you move your fleet of dreadnaughts only and teh enemy throw a dozen BS at you and you loose billions... then send ecort to the dreads.. ooops the escort is vaporized by the DD. Move and counter-move! Response and counter-response! Different strategic options -- how awful that Eve combat has gotten to this stage. And I hate to say it, but you always have the option of getting your own titan. Originally by: Kagura Nikon Its fact that titans encourages blobing. I thought the problem was that Titans discouraged other people from playing -- that it discouraged blobbing. Now it encourages it? That should be a good thing, right? More people participating and all. Battleships and carriers forced changes in fleet combat -- titans are just the latest installment. Keep up or get out.
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.03.08 16:52:00 - [68] for the last time, quit using the word "grid" to define distance. It's a relative term meaning anything that you can see in space(anything up to a 500km radius out) and it's different for everyone. The titan DD is a set 250km blast radius, or 500km diameter if you will. If you are 200km away, you die, if you are 251km away, you do not.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.08 17:01:00 - [69] The win goes to the team with the titan... It has killed fleet warfare which was already a boring range***fest... Basically having a titan or 2 is very nice but doesnt change THAT much... It just makes fc's nervous and kills a few people... It has made POS warfare EVEN MORE BORING (how this was managed i do not know, congratulations ccp) Gatecamps still go on all the same but you are right, they are not the be all and end all anymore, as some fleets can get around them. Titans encourage even bigger blobs, you need to be able to sustain losses, you need to be able to take out your enemy despite them having the bloody thing... and if you get the chance you need to push the node to its limits to kill the bloody thing... or you could wait for it to log off like a real pvper... So in my opinion blobs are becoming more popular... in this war very few people are bothering to solo as 1 v 40 doesnt really appeal to many. The fleet system encourages people to blob like crazy... small gangs dont get gang bonus's unless they convert to fleets... which is really stupid. Sure you can have a small fleet but why nerf gangs... especially considering the lag of a fleet compared with that of a gang... Pos's arent attacked from multiple angles often, its too hard to save the fleet if a small group get seperated and attacked... Alignment is more important than ever. The idea that titans encourage skirmishing is pretty crap... they might make 60 people think twice about attacking 20 but it doesnt encourage people to split up... why? because the enemy wont. they'll just kill your small groups with their big ones... So pos warfare isnt overly great... and titans arent making it more fun... What do i want done about it? A titan in my opinion should be able to fight/kill maybe 5 dreads in a 1 v 1... and those dreads should be able to mount a Capital Warp Scrambler... to stop moms and titans warping away/cyno'ing out... it would still be a * to kill but this might encourage the pilot not to mount friggen cloaks/smart bombs and go for cap ship weapons instead... No DD through cyno... the idea is good but in practice it will just turn titans into * toys like the carrier. Pos hugging = lose. so make them killable... while they're online... thats pretty much all I want. Originally by:** Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.08 17:07:00 - [70] Originally by: Fubear Edited by: Fubear on 08/03/2007 15:00:40 Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. The Goonies and the pets arguing that titans need nerfing is laughable. Sorry -- a gang of gnats does not get to kill an elephant. If you want to drop an elephant, bring an elephant gun to the fight. So you believe that all pilots should be excluded from Alliance warfare until they have been playing the game for at least a year and can afford to fly ships that cost billions each regularly in PvP? Your comments about the Goons & Co is proof that you either didn't read the thread before mashing the reply button or are monumentally retarded. The Goons have just finished destroying an alliance with a Titan, D2 have a Titan of their own. These entities are the people who are most qualified to talk on the subject of Titan warfare because they have experianced both sides of it. I gave up alliance/POS warfare a long time ago to run production. I didn't like the fact that you needed a blob to defend a POS, and a bigger blob to assault one leading to 'who has the biggest blob' warfare. Now if one side has a Titan and the other does not, one side can blob and the other cannot allowing one person to massively unbalance what was previously a shtty but playable game mechanism (POS wars). I would hate to fly 20+ jumps to fight only to find myself and 70% of the fleet in a POD because one person pressed a button. The only way around it is to bring ships that can tank the DD (BS), and eventually ships that can tank multiple DD's (Carriers/Dreads), which cuts out 90% of the games population from alliance warfare. This is not a good thing. You sir have my support for your well balanced post. Especially regarding Johnny being monumentally retarded. Originally by: Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.08 17:47:00 - [71] Edited by: Blitz''Krieg on 08/03/2007 17:44:08 Originally by: Aphotic Raven Originally by: Fubear Edited by: Fubear on 08/03/2007 15:00:40 Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Train your skills, raise your isk, and fly dreadnaughts and carriers. Then laugh at the DD and carry on fighting. The Goonies and the pets arguing that titans need nerfing is laughable. Sorry -- a gang of gnats does not get to kill an elephant. If you want to drop an elephant, bring an elephant gun to the fight. /signed So you believe that all pilots should be excluded from Alliance warfare until they have been playing the game for at least a year and can afford to fly ships that cost billions each regularly in PvP? Your comments about the Goons & Co is proof that you either didn't read the thread before mashing the reply button or are monumentally retarded. The Goons have just finished destroying an alliance with a Titan, D2 have a Titan of their own. These entities are the people who are most qualified to talk on the subject of Titan warfare because they have experianced both sides of it. I gave up alliance/POS warfare a long time ago to run production. I didn't like the fact that you needed a blob to defend a POS, and a bigger blob to assault one leading to 'who has the biggest blob' warfare. Now if one side has a Titan and the other does not, one side can blob and the other cannot allowing one person to massively unbalance what was previously a shtty but playable game mechanism (POS wars). I would hate to fly 20+ jumps to fight only to find myself and 70% of the fleet in a POD because one person pressed a button. The only way around it is to bring ships that can tank the DD (BS), and eventually ships that can tank multiple DD's (Carriers/Dreads), which cuts out 90% of the games population from alliance warfare. This is not a good thing. You sir have my support for your well balanced post. Especially regarding Johnny being monumentally retarded.
Mog Carns Industrial Warlords United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.03.08 17:53:00 - [72] You guys really need to make up your minds about what titans do and don't do. I mean, I know this is just a "why we failed" setup post for next month. However, it would be a lot more effective if it had a coherent message. Every 60 minutes or so is fine. The main problem is fleet destroying blasts every 10 minutes. You can tank one blast with your BSs. The main problem is fleet destroying blasts every 20 minutes. You can tank 2 blasts with some BSs. The main problem is fleet destroying blasts every thirty minutes. You can tank them easy with Capital ships. The main problem is fleet destroying blasts every 60 minutes. Small ships cannot tank it, meaning that newer players cannot play. Only super long term players can use capital ships can participate. Except that capital ships are vunerable to attack, as well. The best defense is another titan. The only things that can otherwise be used on the battlefield is that which you can afford to replace. Like T1 small ships. With T1 fittings. Which insurance will pay for. Like all the newbies have. You know, the guys that cannot play? We could go on, but really, this is the crux of the issue. Really, you have lived in the age of HACs, Command Ships, and high Tier or expensively fit Battleships, and though you face combat, your risk is low, for the noobs cannot touch you, only another vessel of a similar type can do so. This, as you have said many times, is right, and good, for you have spent a lot of isk on your vessel, and it should perform such. Now, a bigger, badder, more elite version of yourselves have arrived. This time, right now, you are not part of the club. This makes you a very sad panda. However, it does not change the arguement. Their ship costs many, many times the cost of your own. That it does what it does is right, and good. It is a good thing to keep in mind when your pants are around your ankles and your being strapped to the barrel. It is right, and good. So, your options are to join the club, which is hard, or join the noobs, and be as vunerable to them as they are to you. It's not the end of EVE, the end of fleet combat, or the end of PvP altogether. Its just the end of the way things are right now. Find a way to adjust. Titans are not impossible to kill in combat. It just requires luck, a mistake, or better, a combination of the two, to kill one using current lazy tactics. The warp scrambler has made you lazy, has convinced you that in every fight, the loser should die. Sometimes, you just have to trade shots and the losers get away. Eventually, someone will make a mistake, and the titan will be killed with guns blazing. Now, you may return to your tinfoil hattery. Clueless Noob
Turkantho Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.08 17:58:00 - [73] in a nutshell ? Titans s*ck sure you can tank your BS against a singel DD, but that only really works if you know against what Titan you're going to fight. An passive omnitank on a FleetBS kinda ruins the idea of a Fleet Dmg setup. If CCP doesn't fix Alliance warfare quick we will come to the point of pure Capital Fleets with multiple Titans, bring some Dictor and Covert support and thats it, no place for the Frig/Cruiser/BS flying noob. I haven't been in a single Fleetfight since either the opposing side or my own had a Titan. Right now it's try to get your enemy to make a stupid move so we can remote DD them. Damn I want to slug it out with them, not press a single button to annihilate them. ________ been there, done that, got the t-shirt I love Emily
Mi Lai Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.08 18:03:00 - [74] I have 3 reasons to dislike Titans: > Pretty much unkillable when it's piloted; > They make for less fighting when present; > Makes younger players / organisations less usefull. Especially the last one is what I dont like about it. EVE used to be one of the few games where a young character was usefull in a gang on all levels. Then T2 Ammo got introduced, and it took about a year to train to fly a proper fleet fit battleship. Now with Super Capitals, that take something like 2 years to train, if not more, and able to wipe out tons of other ships without much if any risks. For new players, the way forward now is to learn the game on your starter character, grind or buy ISK, and buy yourself an old character to play with. Your signature was inappropriate, please email us to find out why -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.08 18:08:00 - [75] Originally by: k1Lz Edited by: k1Lz on 08/03/2007 11:30:43 Now why 90% of ppl complaining about titan abilities are small corporations or alliances with no TITAN ?? Do u gents have any idea how expensive that ships is ?? How much logistic is involved to build something like that ? No u donÆt have a clue because if titan is UBER as a ship on the building part is the most nightmare u ever see, is not about the money is about the pure hard work involved in building one. Secondly before crying that u will be destroyed by a single button AKA DD, ask Goon and RA how they manage in the last 3 big engagements with titan in local to overcome our advantage. Evolve or die, look at the fittings of RA battleships and maybe u will learn something about how to pass a TITAN DD. Double DD atm is restricted to BOB only, and that because THEY PREPARE long time ago for this era. They see what is coming and understand the game evolution, D2 have the same vision just that, they lose one of the TITANs. Stop wining about CCP and the big toys u want a win button way donÆt u try building one and then say is overpower. Its a bit presumptive of you to assume that just because some don't HAVE one, they are precluded from knowing enough about them to know they don't like what they do to the game. I have a clear appreciation of pretty much everything relating to titans and I still don't like them. To say one doesn't like something after considering all the facts doesn't necessarily consitute a "whine." Your calling it a whine really only exposes your bias on the issue as a member of an alliance that does have a titan at its disposal.
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.08 18:42:00 - [76] Originally by: Mog Carns You guys really need to make up your minds about what titans do and don't do. I mean, I know this is just a "why we failed" setup post for next month. However, it would be a lot more effective if it had a coherent message.. I just want to make it clear that i am in no way affiliated with either alliance. My alts are Ast3r0id and SteveId none of which are affiliated.
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.08 18:58:00 - [77] Originally by: SaorAlba Reading this topic I see a lot of you guy's don't get it. The piont is not the building cost or the fact that there are Titans in the game. The piont is the fact the other players have become "useless" in the defense of your system. What fun is it to be DD'ed? There are no fleet fights anymore. No more parading infront of a station or Pos. No more gate camps you can break. It becomes useless with a titan lurking around. Titans are fun killers. This game should have a place for all players to participate in home defense. Titans have totally broken game mechanics and the more we see entering the game the worse it get. FIX your game CCP! Get rid of this strontium timing crappoholics and remote I win buttons. Amen. Low-tech sig: "When in doubt, empty the magazine."
Serapis Aote Minmatar TBC Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 19:07:00 - [78] Anything that discourages people actually engaging in combat is not going to be fun...its a game its suppose to fun. Anything that renders 80% of the playerbase useless is probably not to fun either. Doomsday should only be able to be fired once every 12 hours, and only while on the grid, no remote firing. It should drain about 50-75% of the cap, and the ship should would have to be stuck in place for 5-10 minutes after the blast, to recharge from such a massive expenditure of power. Then they should add some stuff the Titan can do remotely every hour. Make it so it can send racial ewar effects through the cyno. Tie the effect to the standing of the Titan pilot. A caldari titan pilot can shot a jamming blast through cyno, with a chance to jam all people with the wrong stadings for 20 seconds. Gallente can send a sensor damp blast through. I dont know those are just some ideas off the top of my head, but they sound more fun then hugging POS and pressing an I-win button. Its a game make it fun.

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