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emepror
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.03.11 00:45:00 -
[1]
im just wondering about our combat system
yes i know we are gona get to be able to hit just the guns or just the engines eventually why why cant we have a more of a faster paced, more dangerous fight kinda like in stargate atlantis, that is why i consider rails lasers and missiles to look like. also you have many other sci-fi movies/shows that include that kind of firepower like BSG
and serenity (however short that battle was)
so why can we get the sheer raw firepower we see in those shows instead of a click and shoot meathod
NO FLAMES SAYING IT WOULD KILL THE SEVERS BECAUSE OF LAG
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heheheh
Singularity.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 00:47:00 -
[2]
It would cause lag,
and how do you propose it goes if clicking is out the window ?
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emepror
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.03.11 00:48:00 -
[3]
clicking would stay but you would have to bring your ship in closer use different tactics, actually bring as many guns as you can to bare, missile and laser broadside FTW
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Daedalus DuGalle
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Posted - 2007.03.11 00:59:00 -
[4]
Currently the ships exist as a point in space, and all damage goes from your center point to their center point. This is why you can shoot through asteroids, and why missile explosions always seem to originate from the middle of the enemy ship, rather then the side which was hit.
If were were to implement broadsides and whatnot, every ship would have to now exist as a 3D model in space, where each visible shot (lasers, missiles etc) would have to be calculated to land on the correct spot of the target ship. Assuming the servers can magically sustain this right up to the fleet level, all this extra data must also still fit down a 56k-dial up line.
Personally I really wish this would happon (always highly annoyed me that a missile shooting at a Silo in space would always have the explosion *behind* the camera view, no matter how you moved the camera), but given we're lagging as it is, I doubt we'll see this anytime soon.
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Decrepus
Raiders of the Lost Cans
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Posted - 2007.03.11 01:13:00 -
[5]
Its lags my comp just docking my T2 drones (which I don't understand why they even need a model representation). The combat you want, which would be cooler, just is not EvE compatable.
Sometimes I feel the combat we have now is not EvE compatable...
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emepror
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.03.11 01:26:00 -
[6]
i guess i just have to hope to god that we get a massive tech base in the next 30 years
imagine that, enlisting in the united states space fleet :)
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2007.03.11 02:41:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: emepror
im just wondering about our combat system
yes i know we are gona get to be able to hit just the guns or just the engines eventually why why cant we have a more of a faster paced, more dangerous fight kinda like in stargate atlantis, that is why i consider rails lasers and missiles to look like. also you have many other sci-fi movies/shows that include that kind of firepower like BSG
and serenity (however short that battle was)
so why can we get the sheer raw firepower we see in those shows instead of a click and shoot meathod
NO FLAMES SAYING IT WOULD KILL THE SEVERS BECAUSE OF LAG
In my opinion, the thing that sometimes makes EVE combat boring/silly is when the fight devolves into nothing more than a contest of who has more Magical Energy-Suck Beams. Which, ironically, is something that makes the combat go faster.
I have nothing against EW and ECM, but some of the combat related modules just seem silly and gimmicky to me (*cough* NOS *cough*). It's like little children playing pew-pew, making guns out of their fingers:
"I got you!"
"No you didnt!, I have my special beam that empties your gun!"
"Oh yeah, well I got a special gun that can't be de-bulleted!"
.. etc.
I think they'd be a good bit cooler if they were repackaged as something else... Say, for the energy neutralizers, how about a special launcher for an EMP missile/rocket? (yes, I know this raises issues with how module slots are balanced, if this hypothetical weapon would take a hislot, but it's just an example)
Anyhow, Emperor, I'm thinking that the next graphics update will more than satisfy your craving for explosions and such.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.11 04:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: emepror
IT WOULD KILL THE SEVERS BECAUSE OF LAG
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If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Haffrage
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.11 04:51:00 -
[9]
Hey, why don't things in all of those shows work exactly the same?
Oh I know, because they're all fiction. Just like eve. It's *fiction*.
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.11 05:00:00 -
[10]
It would be cool.
However, the game is FUBAR even when using rather outdated graphics, simple colision meshes and damage calculations.. Let alone with super complex damage models, cool effects, proper collision meshes..
It would be cool, but the devs cant even get THIS engine to work right.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 06:30:00 -
[11]
The "firepower" would look more impressive if not for the fact when you see a huge ship or a small frigate, relative to your screen, they look the same size. If you could get a "six foot tall guy" view, combat would probably look bigger. There would need to be more particle effects and debris to make it look like the movies we like I suspect.
As for what real space combat would look like. Frankly I doubt you'd see much of anything. Battles would probably take place over ranges that are difficult for us to imagine. Just in our last century the ranges of combat have gone from almost face to face to pushing a button and hitting your target on the other side of the planet in 30 minutes. 1000 years from now, who knows.
-AS |
Eeyore
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.11 06:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: emepror
i guess i just have to hope to god that we get a massive tech base in the next 30 years
imagine that, enlisting in the united states space fleet :)
by the looks of how politics and relations progressing in Real World , there might not be US in 30 years.
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Gloomy Domesticated Ass |
Hamatitio
Caldari
Fate.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 07:30:00 -
[13]
we'll all go down in a fiery bit of glory to some crazy **** who takes everyone out with him.
50% of my posts get ISDokkened :( |
Eeyore
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.11 07:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hamatitio
we'll all go down in a fiery bit of glory to some crazy **** who takes everyone out with him.
most likely
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Gloomy Domesticated Ass |
Arrgs
Bondage and Veldspar
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Posted - 2007.03.11 08:29:00 -
[15]
i think that we hsould have to buy a stupder *cross between stupid and super) control like for teel batalion to paly eve
itlll be a differnt controlf or each ship and if you dont have ti you are **** out of luck.
im posting like dbp
im not drunk (much)
then combat can be from a first person perpective and real time totally and it will rock and you are stupid and this thread should be locked lov arrgs
My first video!
Signature removed - lacks EVE-Online related content - Please email us if you have a question (and include the URL) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Redglare's Demise
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.03.11 10:30:00 -
[16]
This game needs more waffles.
Wouldnt it be much better with more waffles?
Once I played this other game that had waffles.
Anywho, this is an MMO, not a space sim.
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Nymos
Fimbulvintr
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:05:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Nymos on 11/03/2007 11:05:39
there's a general problem with immersion in eve. a battleship doesn't feel huge. you only see how large it is if you put a frigate next to it. capital ships should be breath taking. don't think darth vader would sit in a star destroyer that looks similar in size as a correlian corvette (spelling).
weapons firing are just "pew pew, blop blop, grrt grrt". if i fire 1400mm artillery it should feel and look like it. this is some firepower and it's not even half the caliber. if a dreadnought fires on a starbase it should feel like this behemoth of a gunship is tearing through massive layers of shields and not "plop plop pew <insert lag spike here>".
space needs more depth and there is too much light. i hope the new engine will fix this.
if the servers can't handle a more immersive display of combat something needs to be changed. but yea we know, a lot currently needs to be changed.
edited to fix linkage
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.11 14:38:00 -
[18]
Dogfights in space? Totally unrealistic. Spacecraft move too fast across too great a region of space to indulge in that. Eve's form of combat is at least a bit more realistic in that we are just dictating targets to a computer and choosing ordnance. No way in hell could organic lifeforms direct weaponry. Even modern jet fighter pilots have gone beyond that now.
Combat in space (if it occurs at all) will occur at long distance and over quite a long period of time. Ships will fire ordnance toward where they think the enemy will be eventually. 'Eventually' in this context is likely to be hours or even days away.
But then again I question if combat will ever happen. Space is big. Very big. Ships are very small. You have to fire a helluva lot of ordnance to stand any chance of hitting them. Having done that you are putting every other vessel (including) yours at risk but the ordnance will be there a long time. Years. Decades. Millenia. Just orbiting the nearest gravity well waiting to hit sopmeone.
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(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Molovian Twilight
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.03.11 15:23:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Molovian Twilight on 11/03/2007 15:20:23
The combat is alright. My problem is I can't see the enemy ships that well when they are shooting with each. Especially if I have to go at range to see the strategic tactics. Other than that is seems alright so far. Have to play around with combar some more to see what the look and feel of comabt is like.
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Mr Mozzie
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.11 15:33:00 -
[20]
I am lead to believe that there are very real physical limitations on what computer servers can achieve. Giving us more direct control of our ships would tax the servers a lot more than they are currently taxed....
Given that this game is primarily an MMO game, the gameplay has been tailored to that.
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Phoenix Lonestar
Litanies of Hate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 15:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nymos
Edited by: Nymos on 11/03/2007 11:05:39
there's a general problem with immersion in eve. a battleship doesn't feel huge. you only see how large it is if you put a frigate next to it. capital ships should be breath taking. don't think darth vader would sit in a star destroyer that looks similar in size as a correlian corvette (spelling).
weapons firing are just "pew pew, blop blop, grrt grrt". if i fire 1400mm artillery it should feel and look like it. this is some firepower and it's not even half the caliber. if a dreadnought fires on a starbase it should feel like this behemoth of a gunship is tearing through massive layers of shields and not "plop plop pew <insert lag spike here>".
space needs more depth and there is too much light. i hope the new engine will fix this.
if the servers can't handle a more immersive display of combat something needs to be changed. but yea we know, a lot currently needs to be changed.
edited to fix linkage
Relative to a frigate...cruiser...battlecruiser...battleship...the dread IS tearing through the shields...but it stands to reason that a fixed outpost in space would be able to equip a substantial amount of defensive fields/armor... I mean... if you want to create a bunker that's very well defended, you can do it in RL. You can create a bunker that's more hardened than the most well protected tank in any nation's inventory... so why should a "fixed" location in space be any different? Your post smacks of "Where's the 'I Win' button?"
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Ekscalybur
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Posted - 2007.03.11 15:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Andrue
Dogfights in space? Totally unrealistic. Spacecraft move too fast across too great a region of space to indulge in that. Eve's form of combat is at least a bit more realistic in that we are just dictating targets to a computer and choosing ordnance. No way in hell could organic lifeforms direct weaponry. Even modern jet fighter pilots have gone beyond that now.
Combat in space (if it occurs at all) will occur at long distance and over quite a long period of time. Ships will fire ordnance toward where they think the enemy will be eventually. 'Eventually' in this context is likely to be hours or even days away.
But then again I question if combat will ever happen. Space is big. Very big. Ships are very small. You have to fire a helluva lot of ordnance to stand any chance of hitting them. Having done that you are putting every other vessel (including) yours at risk but the ordnance will be there a long time. Years. Decades. Millenia. Just orbiting the nearest gravity well waiting to hit sopmeone.
You know, ever since the development of combat aircraft, there has been someone saying EXACTLY what you are saying, almost word for word at the beginning of every new 'era' of technology.
Some one said at the beginning of WWII, someone said it at the beginning of the Korean War, someone said it at the beginning of the Vietnam War, ad nauseum. "Even modern jet fighter pilots" train to dogfight.
When your goal or purpose is killing people and breaking their stuff, there will always be a tendency towards low tech. And combat won't take place with days being the unit of measurment between the combatants. Sure, you can blow your enemy up from a long ways away, but to claim a section of space, and really call it yours, you gotta go there and put some troops there, otherwise you have accomplished nothing.
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Nymos
Fimbulvintr
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Posted - 2007.03.11 16:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Phoenix Lonestar
Relative to a frigate...cruiser...battlecruiser...battleship...the dread IS tearing through the shields...but it stands to reason that a fixed outpost in space would be able to equip a substantial amount of defensive fields/armor... I mean... if you want to create a bunker that's very well defended, you can do it in RL. You can create a bunker that's more hardened than the most well protected tank in any nation's inventory... so why should a "fixed" location in space be any different? Your post smacks of "Where's the 'I Win' button?"
the relative firepower and damage from dreads is fine. i meant it's not properly visualized.
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Shismo
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Posted - 2007.03.11 16:23:00 -
[24]
I think there should be a distance slider for orbit and keep at distance. Instead of just a buton that has options
Basicaly two little sliders, you slide them with the mouse. The last thing you touched is what the game uses. If you dont want to change all you have to do is click on the slider you want to use (orbit or keep at distance) and it automaticaly kicks in.
Also enhanced ship AI for transitory phazes between orbit/keep at/aproach to smooth the whole thing out.
Or actualy, maybe change the mouse wheel to ajust the slider, and have the slider be the same for orbit and keep at distances. And let you bind aproach/orbit/keep at to three different keys on the keyboard. Yeah.
But anyway yeah, i think for the size of ship thats being used you couldnt just do super fast manuvers, the forces could damage the ships. Ignore the nessisary things that occure when you run into somthing. I think the speeds and agilitys we are using is spot on, i just dont think we can controll them as finley and dynamicly as we should be able to.
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Tavi Silverthorn
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Posted - 2007.03.11 17:22:00 -
[25]
I think the only way to have faster paced combat would to to have the mothership and fighter combination and bring the fights in really close. The combat would be like the space fighting game that came with laptops back in the day.
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emepror
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.03.15 18:42:00 -
[26]
Edited by: emepror on 15/03/2007 18:41:17
part 1:
in-game, all i really want to see is more hardpoint distinction (missiles from the middle of a ship), real distinction from ships, getting shaken around when hit by something shooting or colliding ( rip though a dreadnought in a kamakazi raven WOOT) and a bit more manuverablility
but thats never gona happen
part 2:
real life, i believe that atleast by 2100 we would have atleast space frieghters, probably giant skeletons with big cargo cans attached (like i giant lower case t with large square cans(thats my idea anyway)) and maybe by then some crude warships but still i dont believe we would shoot crap that takes days to hit another ship, probably combat that would happen with in 15km 20km at the most and probably 90% of the ships weapons would be missiles too.
ohh and where are my super-dreadnoughts I-WIN button for EVE WOOT
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.03.15 18:46:00 -
[27]
I must admit that when I see someone get hit with a torpedo, and there's this huge BOOOOM explosion that looks like he got hit with an a-bomb or something, it would be nice if his shields/armor moved a little more than one pixel.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
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"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.15 18:49:00 -
[28]
I think the new engine(s) will allow them greater freedom to design weapon effects. Personally, I'd love it if we had Galactica style combat. Remember that bit in season two where the Galactica and the Pegasus assault two Cylon basestars? Flack perimeters, long range missiles, high explosive artillery? Six in a red dress? Oh yeah. That's the stuff.
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Arowe Telak
Grave Diggers
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Posted - 2007.03.15 19:22:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Arowe Telak on 15/03/2007 19:19:45
A note about possible real life space battles:
The technology exists to put weapons in space right now. There's just no reason to. The only assets worth attacking and defending in space are artificial satellites, and they can be taken out easily enough by ground-based weaponry or other satellites mounted with railguns (yes they exist in usable form right now).
All that is needed for a manned warship in space is not money or technology, it's other humans to defend. When countries decide that there are assets worth defending in space with human lives there will be humans in space defending them, but not until then.
Eventually, it will happen, but whether happens next century or whether it happens tomorrow depends on how fast colonization of space progresses. Most major space programs have a goal of setting up a permanent moon base by around 2020. Civilian space colonization is a little harder to predict, but I expect that civilian operations on the moon and in Earth orbit will appear about that same time, 2020.
We'll have to wait and see.
Sigs are overrated. |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.15 19:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Arowe Telak
Edited by: Arowe Telak on 15/03/2007 19:19:45
A note about possible real life space battles:
The technology exists to put weapons in space right now. There's just no reason to. The only assets worth attacking and defending in space are artificial satellites, and they can be taken out easily enough by ground-based weaponry or other satellites mounted with railguns (yes they exist in usable form right now).
All that is needed for a manned warship in space is not money or technology, it's other humans to defend. When countries decide that there are assets worth defending in space with human lives there will be humans in space defending them, but not until then.
Eventually, it will happen, but whether happens next century or whether it happens tomorrow depends on how fast colonization of space progresses. Most major space programs have a goal of setting up a permanent moon base by around 2020. Civilian space colonization is a little harder to predict, but I expect that civilian operations on the moon and in Earth orbit will appear about that same time, 2020.
We'll have to wait and see.
You just know the first big fight in space is going to look like the one at the end of Moonraker, everyone's going to be so embarassed about how stupid it looks that they'll cut military funding. :)
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