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The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 9	Posted - 2016.08.02 08:51:45 - [1] - Quote Anyone else notice the decline of activity in the smaller hubs? I have nothing to back my opinion, I just feel like the smaller hubs are slowing down. Opinions please
John Volan Volan Enterprises 36	Posted - 2016.08.02 09:05:00 - [2] - Quote According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score.
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 9	Posted - 2016.08.02 09:21:33 - [3] - Quote John Volan wrote: According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score. That's not what I mean, I'm comparing Dodixie now to Dodixie a year ago, not to be confused with comparing Jita to Dodixie currently.
John Volan Volan Enterprises 36	Posted - 2016.08.02 09:49:55 - [4] - Quote My point was that I always remember Dodixie being that size proportionally to Jita, but I suppose all of the trade hubs might have diminished traffic along with the decreased login rates.
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 498	Posted - 2016.08.02 10:59:03 - [5] - Quote Sales have definitely slowed down. Some of the stuff I manufacture is taking much longer to shift now. I blame Brexit :)
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5877	Posted - 2016.08.02 11:21:22 - [6] - Quote Dodi activity is in freefall. This works really, really well for me. I've been able to do things there that would never work in a more competitive market like price manipulations on high volume items. It's three factors. First and most important - the rise of near-zero fee trade Fortizars. It's now possible to source anything near Jita without undergoing the gank risk of docking at 4-4. Now you can get the same stuff at Perimeter Second - the sharp decline in Red Frog and similar services thanks to CODE activity over the last 2 years. Third - A declining playerbase means that Dodi is losing some of its critical mass. It's still possible to reliably source any item that players can mass produce that is under 5 billion in Dodi except officer mods. When/if this changes Dodi will go the way of Hek or even Oursalert. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5877	Posted - 2016.08.02 11:23:20 - [7] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: Sales have definitely slowed down. Some of the stuff I manufacture is taking much longer to shift now. I blame Brexit :) On production - have you shifted your production to account for the smaller playerbase? I personally could probably produce enough Kronos hulls to meet the entire collective demand of the playerbase. I've had to diversify lately - the days of pumping out 3000 Magstab 2 per day knowing they'll all sell are long over. 3000 a day is just too big a percentage of overall demand. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Drago Shouna Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 498	Posted - 2016.08.02 11:36:29 - [8] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Drago Shouna wrote: Sales have definitely slowed down. Some of the stuff I manufacture is taking much longer to shift now. I blame Brexit :) On production - have you shifted your production to account for the smaller playerbase? I personally could probably produce enough Kronos hulls to meet the entire collective demand of the playerbase. I've had to diversify lately - the days of pumping out 3000 Magstab 2 per day knowing they'll all sell are long over. 3000 a day is just too big a percentage of overall demand. Yeah I have, several times. Certain things ie mining crystals, energy crystals, ammo which you would think would be in demand all seem to be struggling. Other things seem to move nicely but overall it's slowed down in Dodi. I've even mothballed a few blueprints due to a lack of sales now, or so slow it's wasting a sales slot.
William Legrand-Marx Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415 17	Posted - 2016.08.02 12:43:57 - [9] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: John Volan wrote: According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score. That's not what I mean, I'm comparing Dodixie now to Dodixie a year ago, not to be confused with comparing Jita to Dodixie currently. I am not mentioning player base here... There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2729	Posted - 2016.08.02 18:19:42 - [10] - Quote Same observation here, nothing unexpected though. This is the logical consequence of introducing prohibitive fees to trade. Jita/Perimeter is the only public hub left of significant volume. Also alliance manufacturing and trade has moved to non-public markets and Citadels. I'm my own NPC alt.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 12727	Posted - 2016.08.02 20:26:50 - [11] - Quote William Legrand-Marx wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: John Volan wrote: According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score. That's not what I mean, I'm comparing Dodixie now to Dodixie a year ago, not to be confused with comparing Jita to Dodixie currently. I am not mentioning player base here... Did you forget to log in with your alt when replying? Enquiring minds want to know! Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . Bumble's Space Log
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 9	Posted - 2016.08.02 23:18:53 - [12] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: William Legrand-Marx wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: John Volan wrote: According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score. That's not what I mean, I'm comparing Dodixie now to Dodixie a year ago, not to be confused with comparing Jita to Dodixie currently. I am not mentioning player base here... Did you forget to log in with your alt when replying? Enquiring minds want to know! Hey bumble-bozo, I know it is hard for you, but please stay on topic you clown.
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 9	Posted - 2016.08.02 23:22:03 - [13] - Quote Interesting times ahead, I would have never thought that hubs as we have known them for years may slowly disappear.
Robby Rova Rova Capital 49	Posted - 2016.08.04 06:09:17 - [14] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: Bumblefck wrote: William Legrand-Marx wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: John Volan wrote: According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score. That's not what I mean, I'm comparing Dodixie now to Dodixie a year ago, not to be confused with comparing Jita to Dodixie currently. I am not mentioning player base here... Did you forget to log in with your alt when replying? Enquiring minds want to know! Hey bumble-bozo, I know it is hard for you, but please stay on topic you clown. confirmed
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5878	Posted - 2016.08.04 08:54:08 - [15] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: Interesting times ahead, I would have never thought that hubs as we have known them for years may slowly disappear. Jita will have a phenomenal amount of inertia, just due to the hundreds of trillions of ISK in assets that are stockpiled there. Just Chribba's Veldspar collection (0.01 T units) is a thousand freighter loads. That's not moving easily. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2730	Posted - 2016.08.04 11:48:19 - [16] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: Interesting times ahead, I would have never thought that hubs as we have known them for years may slowly disappear. Jita will have a phenomenal amount of inertia, just due to the hundreds of trillions of ISK in assets that are stockpiled there. Jita/Perimeter will probably survive and the other hubs will still have stock of the most basic daily use items. But there are more and more items which are exclusively (in public) traded in Jita. I'm my own NPC alt.
Skeeter Schlong Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness 0	Posted - 2016.08.04 18:10:45 - [17] - Quote Rather than using observation, let's try some hard numbers. (with citations!) In February, trade volume was $42.2 trillion. That declined to $19.4 trillion by July. February: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70094/1/02_-_LBAeCSa.png July: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70454/1/1_regional.stats.png That sounds like solid evidence of a decline, but you also have to look at Jita and Amarr. They both experienced about the same 50 percent decline. So, most likely, it's not that Dodixie is declining. All the hubs are. There's a pretty obvious reason this is happening. Manbearpig. He's ruining Eve.
Elizabeth Norn Nornir Research 936	Posted - 2016.08.04 20:16:28 - [18] - Quote Skeeter Schlong wrote: Rather than using observation, let's try some hard numbers. (with citations!) In February, trade volume was $42.2 trillion. That declined to $19.4 trillion by July. February: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70094/1/02_-_LBAeCSa.png July: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70454/1/1_regional.stats.png That sounds like solid evidence of a decline, but you also have to look at Jita and Amarr. They both experienced about the same 50 percent decline. So, most likely, it's not that Dodixie is declining. All the hubs are. There's a pretty obvious reason this is happening. Manbearpig. He's ruining Eve. I'm inclined to believe that July's figures are closer to the 'norm' than previous months. In February Skill Injectors were added to the game, which are still very popular, and an incredible amount were sold in the first weeks (36.4k on the first day, ~173k in the first week). In February 203.7T ISK worth of Skill Injectors were traded, the following months were 150.2T, 150.6T, 116T, 100.4T, and finally 95.7T ISK in July. This doesn't include the trade value of Skill Extractors or PLEX, the latter of which had a large increase in sales volume over the last few months. From March to May we had World War Bee which saw a higher PCU than average, also it appears that there have been several large scale evacuations from null sec space, I imagine some of that will have ended up being dumped to Jita buy orders. September 2015: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/regional.stats.png February 2016: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70094/1/02_-_LBAeCSa.png March 2016: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70162/1/1_regional.stats.png April 2016: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70258/1/1_regional.stats.png May 2016: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70343/1/1_regional.stats.png June 2016: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70401/1/1_regional.stats.png July 2016: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70454/1/1_regional.stats.png
Epsilon Dog Viziam Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.08.05 10:10:48 - [19] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: John Volan wrote: According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score. That's not what I mean, I'm comparing Dodixie now to Dodixie a year ago, not to be confused with comparing Jita to Dodixie currently. Possibly buff to ship EHP, and skill injection. It is easier to move goods now to Jita from whole eve, and your 5mil sp freighter pilot not only can make isk from hauling, but extracting him give you additional income. Goods are to easy and cheap to move now.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5878	Posted - 2016.08.05 11:34:45 - [20] - Quote Epsilon Dog wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: John Volan wrote: According to fuzzworks Dodixie has about a third of the orders that Jita has which seems about right to me, although I haven't exactly been keeping score. That's not what I mean, I'm comparing Dodixie now to Dodixie a year ago, not to be confused with comparing Jita to Dodixie currently. Possibly buff to ship EHP, and skill injection. It is easier to move goods now to Jita from whole eve, and your 5mil sp freighter pilot not only can make isk from hauling, but extracting him give you additional income. Goods are to easy and cheap to move now. Goods are harder and more expensive to move than they were 3 years ago (before CODE. started hitting freighters, and back when the 'Autopilot To Zero' exploit was in widespread use). Red Frog used to charge 5.6 million to haul a billion isk freighter from Jita to Dodixie. They now quote 26m, about a 350% increase. Individual couriers used to do it for 4m, now contracts sit around a while at 14m. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
TheSmokingHertog Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium 419	Posted - 2016.08.05 15:20:28 - [21] - Quote As trader, I would suggest looking at the higher NPC taxes for people trading at the smaller hubs. People who had low margins and did trade on the smaller hubs or did seed local pockets of space. Have some stuff working against them atm. First they loose from Citadel competition, because; - They don't understand how it works - Its new market ways and they simple did not take time to invest the mechanic - They are afraid for asset safety - They don't use citadels out of habit - Contracts where not ending in Citadels Secondly they loose of income due to supply chain costs; - More taxes on normal supply chain lines, will decrease profit on a lot of products, the masses will drop products that are no longer feasible in profit margin. Third; Critical mass in turnover on local hubs - With less turnover in market, due to local supply simply disappearing due to higher taxes in the supply chain, has a few consequences; * Existing wholesalers will drop prices even further, in favor of turnover, to maintain critical mass in their portfolios, what is even encouraged by citadel strategies. * People with small volumes can not afford the risk of selling at near margins at smaller hubs, they will ship to hubs with higher volume to have sales when the market peaks. * When people with stocks in local market hubs, want to leave the market due to lower returns. They will dump in market, or move the stocks. The dumping of ISK that is hold up in their hangers creates a lower market price on local products. Inter regional traders will all avoid markets where dumping occurs by locals or competition, which leads to less turnover (again). * Besides the above, stocks that need to make turnover will be moved by people who can afford logistics to place it in hubs that have the turnover to generate ISK. The bigger inter regional wholesalers, have no problem with lower margins, as long as the turnover on their product keeps the critical mass cq healthy profits EVE wide. When Citadel trading was announced, I suggested on forums that the new tax scheme would consolidate tredevolumes even more. Since that is the most logical outcome, based on the described stuff above and in this thread. It seems its happening already. "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 5764	Posted - 2016.08.07 21:48:48 - [22] - Quote Oursalert: my first trades happened there, a long, long time ago. Seeing it mentioned above, brings me memories. EvE Online portal \| EvE markets tutorials
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 928	Posted - 2016.08.07 22:48:49 - [23] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Oursalert: my first trades happened there, a long, long time ago. Seeing it mentioned above, brings me memories. Oursalert was a very nice place way back in ye olde days Fluffy Bunny Pic!
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission 159	Posted - 2016.08.08 16:49:00 - [24] - Quote Indeed. Ours was also my first foray into trading. Took me six month to sell a Claymore there, though ... Kinda strange that Dodixie was "only" the main mission runner hub back then, and Ours the major Gallenet trade hub. EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager.
Zenbor Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.09 18:37:34 - [25] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: Opinions please The game is just dying away.
Jin Kugu Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 44	Posted - 2016.08.10 11:23:14 - [26] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Dodi activity is in freefall. This works really, really well for me. I've been able to do things there that would never work in a more competitive market like price manipulations on high volume items. It's three factors. First and most important - the rise of near-zero fee trade Fortizars. It's now possible to source anything near Jita without undergoing the gank risk of docking at 4-4. Now you can get the same stuff at Perimeter Second - the sharp decline in Red Frog and similar services thanks to CODE activity over the last 2 years. Third - A declining playerbase means that Dodi is losing some of its critical mass. It's still possible to reliably source any item that players can mass produce that is under 5 billion in Dodi except officer mods. When/if this changes Dodi will go the way of Hek or even Oursalert. Ganking has no serious effect on inter regional trade anymore. DSTs carry small valuable stuff, freighters haul bulk stuff. Only idiots die and Red Frog will haul anything safely 99.99% of the time.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5881	Posted - 2016.08.10 13:11:39 - [27] - Quote Jin Kugu wrote: Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Dodi activity is in freefall. This works really, really well for me. I've been able to do things there that would never work in a more competitive market like price manipulations on high volume items. It's three factors. First and most important - the rise of near-zero fee trade Fortizars. It's now possible to source anything near Jita without undergoing the gank risk of docking at 4-4. Now you can get the same stuff at Perimeter Second - the sharp decline in Red Frog and similar services thanks to CODE activity over the last 2 years. Third - A declining playerbase means that Dodi is losing some of its critical mass. It's still possible to reliably source any item that players can mass produce that is under 5 billion in Dodi except officer mods. When/if this changes Dodi will go the way of Hek or even Oursalert. Ganking has no serious effect on inter regional trade anymore. DSTs carry small valuable stuff, freighters haul bulk stuff. Only idiots die and Red Frog will haul anything safely 99.99% of the time. Have another look at Red Frog's prices. Let me remind you. 2013: Jita to Dodi, freighter parcel, 1b collateral: ~5.6 million ISK 2016: Jita to Dodi, freighter parcel, 1b collateral: ~26 million ISK. You can pretend CODE. doesn't matter, but facts do not lie. And Red Frog, as the biggest hauling corp, understand the actual risks because they insure them. I agree with you that only idiots get ganked. (A freighter pilot flying blind, without a scout, is by default an idiot). Fact is, there are so many idiots that they warp the game economy. Ganking in Uedama alone is one of the largest mineral sinks in the game because a never-ending stream of idiots refuse to exercise the minimum due dilligence needed to avoid expensive lessons, and fail to learn those lessons until they are taught them several times. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
orionbeta Romanus Sica 4	Posted - 2016.08.11 19:32:23 - [28] - Quote I do alot of hauling through the Haulers chat channel by Rita Jita and just want to point some things out as the cost of shipping as been mentioned more then a few times here. 1. Code and friends are making a very large difference on the costs of shipping. More and more people are moving to DST, however they are expecting the same reward per jump as they where getting with there freighter with a heck of alot less cargo space. 2. Three or four of the major builders that I haul for often have moved with-in the ring. The ring defined as a system I can get into with-out having to go through Nijara, Sipralla, ETC. (Spelling is wrong, sorry im at work). 3. With the new manufacturing arrays or whatever they will be called are going to have a huge impact on Jita I believe. If they work like Citidals there will really be no limit on how many a system can have. More and more builders move there operations with-in the ring and the risk will drop ALOT. 4. Rens trade has dropped so much I dont even know how to compare it. I buy alot of minerals there and haul them to seed in other hubs. It used to take me mere hours to fill a 100 mill trit buy order. Now, it can take 12 hours easy. And alot of traders have moved on, so alot less 0.01 wars. Just my 2cents. Fly Safe, Orion
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 41	Posted - 2016.08.11 23:56:40 - [29] - Quote orionbeta wrote: 4. Rens trade has dropped so much I dont even know how to compare it. I buy alot of minerals there and haul them to seed in other hubs. It used to take me mere hours to fill a 100 mill trit buy order. Now, it can take 12 hours easy. And alot of traders have moved on, so alot less 0.01 wars. This... Yes Dodixie has declined, but Rens has declined to disastrously low level. I haven't looked at statistics or such, but I do log in regularly at Rens and the local count is horribly low these days. Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697 Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
Princess Adhara University of Caille Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2016.08.12 00:40:45 - [30] - Quote Toobo wrote: orionbeta wrote: 4. Rens trade has dropped so much I dont even know how to compare it. I buy alot of minerals there and haul them to seed in other hubs. It used to take me mere hours to fill a 100 mill trit buy order. Now, it can take 12 hours easy. And alot of traders have moved on, so alot less 0.01 wars. This... Yes Dodixie has declined, but Rens has declined to disastrously low level. I haven't looked at statistics or such, but I do log in regularly at Rens and the local count is horribly low these days. To me it looks like the only thing left in Rens are trading alts. Orders are still being frequently updated but rarely fulfilled. Producers and consumers seem to have gone elsewhere to trade/look for goods.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 41	Posted - 2016.08.12 01:27:55 - [31] - Quote Princess Adhara wrote: To me it looks like the only thing left in Rens are trading alts. Orders are still being frequently updated but rarely fulfilled. Producers and consumers seem to have gone elsewhere to trade/look for goods. Yeah. I have traded there for years some relatively low volume/slow sales items. They were always slow-ish but things got bought and sold. Nowadays I could be on top of the buy/sell order for a few days and nothings gets bought or sold. I'm not even outbid or undercut by other traders there on some items. They just don't move anymore :p Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697 Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 11	Posted - 2016.08.12 20:36:02 - [32] - Quote The decline of hubs is good for how I earn isk in Eve, hopefully it does not have a negative impact on the game.
Tam Arai Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 85	Posted - 2016.08.14 15:37:39 - [33] - Quote are there any updated numbers on hub trade volumes compared to a year ago?
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission 159	Posted - 2016.08.16 16:08:45 - [34] - Quote Tam Arai wrote: are there any updated numbers on hub trade volumes compared to a year ago? http://eve-marketdata.com/station.php?step=Rank EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager.
TheSmokingHertog Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium 419	Posted - 2016.08.16 16:31:38 - [35] - Quote Hel O'Ween wrote: Tam Arai wrote: are there any updated numbers on hub trade volumes compared to a year ago? http://eve-marketdata.com/station.php?step=Rank Whats up in the 8, 9 and 12 spot with huge numbers of Guidance Systems orders? "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Cooyaw Cajun Fast Mart 100	Posted - 2016.09.13 07:30:55 - [36] - Quote I have noticed turnarounds are slower in that area but that's certain modules have higher volume daily then other hubs
radkid10 University of Caille Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2016.09.15 10:03:33 - [37] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: Anyone else notice the decline of activity in the smaller hubs? I have nothing to back my opinion, I just feel like the smaller hubs are slowing down. Opinions please for Dodixie when it came to selling my planetary interaction stuff and my stuff from doing exploration they gave me less than 40% of the actual average so it's better for me to go elsewhere perimeter is the best place to go sell **** now
Elizabeth Norn Nornir Research 964	Posted - 2016.09.15 10:52:06 - [38] - Quote radkid10 wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: Anyone else notice the decline of activity in the smaller hubs? I have nothing to back my opinion, I just feel like the smaller hubs are slowing down. Opinions please for Dodixie when it came to selling my planetary interaction stuff and my stuff from doing exploration they gave me less than 40% of the actual average so it's better for me to go elsewhere perimeter is the best place to go sell **** now Please don't sell stuff in Perimeter, most of the buy orders in citadels there will be ranged buy orders that reach Jita and the buyers will most likely want their goods in Jita too. Free 3rd party service 21 day trial, you keep the whole PLEX
Coco Noceuse Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.09.16 20:04:09 - [39] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: Anyone else notice the decline of activity in the smaller hubs? I have nothing to back my opinion, I just feel like the smaller hubs are slowing down. Opinions please Yes. With respect to building materials (e.g. minerals, hyper synaptic fibers, moon goo, etc.), Amarr is dead. There's a lot of buy orders, to be sure, but little fulfillment of buy orders. I don't know how to describe it but I feel like Amarr is a less liquid market. Lots of stuff for sale but not necessarily moving. So now I go to Jita so I don't have to wait as long for buy orders of minerals and the like to be filled. Rens is worse in some respects, but still great for minerals only and not tech 2 stuff. I could be wrong but this is my feeling with Amarr and Rens. Fuzz's data may say different, of course.
El Pacho Delaquira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.09.16 22:59:08 - [40] - Quote I confirm this.This is total disaster, the rate at which one sells products/items in smaller hubs is at the least 10x slower than 3-4years ago(dod,hek,rens).Amarr is starting to feel more like dodixie and at this rate it will catch up to its fate after few years unless f2p save it.The outcome of all this is that jita will eventually become the place for everything that is not minerals i guess.Also Some items in jita are starting to sell much less slower than before. I remember when oursulaert used to be slow but a good place to trade nonetheless.We all know how that ended. If november doesn't change this game the future looks grim.
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 11	Posted - 2016.09.16 23:11:43 - [41] - Quote El Pacho Delaquira wrote: I confirm this.This is total disaster, the rate at which one sells products/items in smaller hubs is at the least 10x slower than 3-4years ago(dod,hek,rens).Amarr is starting to feel more like dodixie and at this rate it will catch up to its fate after few years unless f2p save it.The outcome of all this is that jita will eventually become the place for everything that is not minerals i guess.Also Some items in jita are starting to sell much less slower than before. I remember when oursulaert used to be slow but a good place to trade nonetheless.We all know how that ended. If november doesn't change this game the future looks grim. What do yall think? Do you think the decline in hubs is due to overall decline of eve playerbase/activity, or is there more to it than that? Is it possible that for whatever reason more and more players are simply going to jita to buy assets versus using lower tier hubs? I think it maybe a combination of both, and not just eve being in a state of significant/rapid decline.
SJ Astralana Syncore 141	Posted - 2016.09.18 04:27:29 - [42] - Quote Coco Noceuse wrote: Yes. With respect to building materials (e.g. minerals, hyper synaptic fibers, moon goo, etc.), Amarr is dead. There's a lot of buy orders, to be sure, but little fulfillment of buy orders. I don't know how to describe it but I feel like Amarr is a less liquid market. Lots of stuff for sale but not necessarily moving. Some may remember me. I've been inactive since before Citadels, but I'm looking at market history and volumes in Amarr across minerals and mods, and it looks fine. Local count looks normal as well. I don't know much about Dodixie or Rens or Oursalert, are/were they mission running systems? Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
Mr Crowley Bagel and Lox 0	Posted - 2016.09.21 13:24:01 - [43] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Dodi activity is in freefall. This works really, really well for me. I've been able to do things there that would never work in a more competitive market like price manipulations on high volume items. It's three factors. First and most important - the rise of near-zero fee trade Fortizars. It's now possible to source anything near Jita without undergoing the gank risk of docking at 4-4. Now you can get the same stuff at Perimeter Second - the sharp decline in Red Frog and similar services thanks to CODE activity over the last 2 years. Third - A declining playerbase means that Dodi is losing some of its critical mass. It's still possible to reliably source any item that players can mass produce that is under 5 billion in Dodi except officer mods. When/if this changes Dodi will go the way of Hek or even Oursalert. 1) not really legit. Most trade in the hubs from what I have seen is still going on in the same stations. people can also put these up in dodixie so... 2) CODE if anything is slowing down the centralization of markets to the main hubs. I know I think twice and am still super careful anytime I haul 40 mill isogen into amarr. 3) this is the ONLY ligit argument you've put forth. I would theorize that the centralization of markets to hubs is happening because there is no incentive to use the other systems for anything more then for farming. People will always do what will benefit them the most. Let's look at what's been changing in game: Faster ships travel time by warp to 0 and more and more nimble ships. It now takes almost no time at all to run to a hub and buy a module. Jump freighters are able to travel from catch to jita for 35million. Freighters in general has made centralization logistically possible. Now let's look at what incentive there is to centralize. Centralization: volume of orders and speed of transactions. This has had a crippling effect on the outer regions. Economic activity is virtually non existent in comparison. If your selling something you go where people are buying. decentralization: the only incentive is safety (thank you CODE). So how can we fix this? Well you have to incentivize the decentralization. This can be done any number of ways. Taxes. NPC stations can (and should) tax higher for the services and security they provide. This could be done on a graded approach based on number of orders. Limiting the number of people docked in a station. My favorite is map alterations. Move the hubs farther apart and force 0.0 between them while offering many more routes of travel. Massive increase to the cost of JF operation. Explodable stations and the loss of stored items similar to ship destruction.
Zanar Skwigelf Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra 43	Posted - 2016.09.21 13:38:19 - [44] - Quote Elizabeth Norn wrote: Please don't sell stuff in Perimeter, most of the buy orders in citadels there will be ranged buy orders that reach Jita and the buyers will most likely want their goods in Jita too. Perimeter has far fewer war targets than Jita, and there are enough citadels in it that it is relatively easy to find one that has no ships on the undock. Its much less stressful to sell in Perimeter, and currently much lower risk.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 174	Posted - 2016.09.21 14:18:07 - [45] - Quote People have to seed the market for it to function as anything more than an offshoring platform/tax haven. I mean proper commitment using multiple Tycoons to seed ALL (or almost) T2 mods and ammo at least. If I can buy a ship cheaper in one system but all the mods and ammo I need are only in the traditional hub, I would pay few bucks extra to buy a ship from there so I can fit everything I want in one location. I'm as guilty of offshoring through Perimeter citadels as anyone with buy orders with 1j range and ridiculously low broker fee. There is almost no penalty to put up bullsh!t orders and cancel it later because broker fees are so low. My team has been doing market seeding in less populated regions even before the citadels were announced and the key is keeping things in stock and available. People need to buy all they want in one location to consider shopping in such mini hubs. Traders also have to be more reasonable. It is normal that these mini hubs sell orders are more expensive than Jita lowest sell, but people trying to sell stuff for 2~10 times the market hub price? Just in an off chance that someone desperately needs it and don't care about ISK buy it? Many traders are to blame when it comes to difficulty in developing a small local hub. They use it as a chance to rip off people with less management of orders because lack of serious competition. Be reasonable and supply goods to the local communities at the price level that is profitable to you AND sensible to the buyers. Stock things with great variety rather than a few items that have massive profit margin. Heck, when we were seeding a small backwater region hub we were selling some stuff AT LOSS, just so we could offer variety and keep he availability level of all things. Margin & ISK profit will always be the top priority for traders but I wish people invest with more long term vision of developing the system/area. It's not just backwater region mini hubs. Some stuff in Rens are listed at stupidly high prices compared to Jita or even Dodixie. You may be smilng when a few of those items sell for big profit margins but people will justbsay fock this I'm going elsewhere to shop eventually. Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky. ;) Programers/Designers Wanted
Al Nomadi Morawins 17	Posted - 2016.09.23 15:10:40 - [46] - Quote Its the Archetype. killing the hub they use themselves ;) They tend to wardec each and every one, who ships goods in there, so no wonder they got Dodixie unpopulated rather quickly ... Now mission complete, so since monday they try the same with Jita. Good luck.
Jason Galente Hole Riders Spaceship Samurai 744	Posted - 2016.09.26 20:41:40 - [47] - Quote Drago Shouna wrote: I blame Brexit :) Won't lie, I chuckled. Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended. *At any cost*
TheSmokingHertog Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium 430	Posted - 2016.09.26 21:24:17 - [48] - Quote Zanar Skwigelf wrote: Elizabeth Norn wrote: Please don't sell stuff in Perimeter, most of the buy orders in citadels there will be ranged buy orders that reach Jita and the buyers will most likely want their goods in Jita too. Perimeter has far fewer war targets than Jita, and there are enough citadels in it that it is relatively easy to find one that has no ships on the undock. Its much less stressful to sell in Perimeter, and currently much lower risk. Big powerbrokers in EVE do not care where the turnover is happening, they want it happening. "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 209	Posted - 2016.09.27 05:10:50 - [49] - Quote Interesting problem is seeding one of those Perimeter hubs, to make it into a mall rather than just for placing buy orders. Theoretically, you could buy from Jita using buy order and see at a Perimeter citadel, but then you have to compete against the one-stop convenience of Jita, and reduced sell price on broker fee merit alone may not be enough. Seeding away from traditional market hub could usually do a reasonable mark up from Jita or other nearest main hubs, because the convenience of being able to shop in local hub was worth it to some extent. However, seeding Perimeter goes head to head vs Jita as a place for shopping. You cannot buy from Jita low sell and sell in Perimeter at mark up, as you could when seeding other remote hubs. If you use Jita buy and sell below Jita at perimeter, you could have profit margin, albeit very thin, probably such small discount to the extent that people will fly to Jita for its one-stop shopping attraction. I do like Perimeter fortizar hubs with its broker fees, but for a proper hub where 'end users' go to buy and fit their ship, I think such a hub should be in reasonable distance away from Jita while offering most of commonly used items. If market were to be de-centralised, then people should work on turning that place into a shopping mall for end users. Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky. ;) Running 120b Bond now, 2% monthly, fully collateralised and held by Chribba
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 342	Posted - 2016.09.27 13:31:59 - [50] - Quote Toobo wrote: Interesting problem is seeding one of those Perimeter hubs I dont know why it should be seeded. But if it should, I'd start by selling commodities. They are traded in large volumes, so thin margins are still worth it, both for seller and for buyer. There is some problem though, as professional haulers avoid taking contracts to citadels.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 209	Posted - 2016.09.27 14:57:57 - [51] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Toobo wrote: Interesting problem is seeding one of those Perimeter hubs I dont know why it should be seeded. But if it should, I'd start by selling commodities. They are traded in large volumes, so thin margins are still worth it, both for seller and for buyer. There is some problem though, as professional haulers avoid taking contracts to citadels. I don't think Perimeter markets 'should be' seeded. There is no need when Jita is next door as the biggest shopping mall in New Eden. My comment was just lamenting about the fact that most people seem to use Fortizars only as a platform for cheap broker fees. I want to see them develop as real 'market hub' in a traditional sense, where people can come to buy all they need for their fits, and is at good location to venture into low/null/other pvp or pve opportunities or whatever. I support, and already have been putting my isk into operations that help grow smaller local markets in various regions. That means putting stuff up on sale that may not be even that profitable or sell very often there. That means investing multiple Tycoon toons and order slots to make sure that local people can buy what they want, whatever they fly, from T1 to T2 to T3. The availability/variety is the key here. Why 'should' traders do this? No I'm not saying they 'should'. Traders want/follow money as the top priority after all. But I think there are many more creative economic possibilities around New Eden, and Fortizar markets give such ability to the players. Yet people are planting them as close to traditional hubs as possible to save/earn broker fees. The potential to use these structures is there, to establish something new and grow a local community, but that potential is very under utilised at the moment IMHO. Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky. ;) Running 120b Bond now, 2% monthly, fully collateralised and held by Chribba
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 342	Posted - 2016.09.27 15:46:33 - [52] - Quote Toobo wrote: The potential to use these structures is there, to establish something new and grow a local community, but that potential is very under utilised at the moment IMHO. I dont think the potential is quite there yet. You cannot build even the most basic things in citadels. If I ever venture into building and maintaining some market hub, I want to have 1) refinery 2) production lines and 3) obviously the market service itself, all in one place. But I'm more inclined towards nullsec, and as I mentioned in the other thread, it has its own rules.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 210	Posted - 2016.09.27 16:50:21 - [53] - Quote Skia, that is a very tricky issue I agree, and I have keen interst on how the industrial structures will turn out to be. If they can have markets, that would make a market only Fortizars very very meh, indeed. I have my own view on how the industrial structures should be, but that's probably more for Features and Ideas forum. :p So yes, market potential is there, but as you correctly pointed out, it's not full potential without ability to manufacture there. Sadly. Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky. ;) Running 120b Bond now, 2% monthly, fully collateralised and held by Chribba
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18123	Posted - 2016.09.27 17:50:18 - [54] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: Anyone else notice the decline of activity in the smaller hubs? I have nothing to back my opinion, I just feel like the smaller hubs are slowing down. Opinions please Hi sec PvP has been over-nerfed, leading to a removal of "terrain" - the cost to move goods has effectively fallen, thus reducing the incentive to shop or sell anywhere but the largest hub. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 1906	Posted - 2016.09.28 13:30:15 - [55] - Quote Selling loot in Jita i found that some items are almost dead already. Talking about some meta guns here. It's easier to just reprocess the item than sell it.... So yeah.... Not only regional hubs but Jita too sees decline The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2934	Posted - 2016.09.28 16:33:54 - [56] - Quote I still blame the broker fee and the move of trade volume to closed communities. The broker fee eliminated the low margin high volume business floor, so we end up with less volume and higher spreads. Maybe also features like multi-buy and multi-sell amplified centralization. Personally I buy everything in Jita, either directly using multi-buy or if the spreads and value are high enough via buy-order from Perimeter. The loot is also dumped there, with few exceptions, plus a bit of actual regional trade for a few 100m extra ISK. I'm my own NPC alt.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 345	Posted - 2016.09.30 18:40:16 - [57] - Quote Toobo wrote: Skia, that is a very tricky issue I agree, and I have keen interst on how the industrial structures will turn out to be. If they can have markets, that would make a market only Fortizars very very meh, indeed. From CSM minutes: "CCP explained that there would be a service module that would enable manufacturing everything but capitals and super capitals, another that enables capitals and a final one that enables supercapital manufacturing." I can speculate that those modules can be installed on citadels too. Furthermore, engineering complexes will come in different sizes. Which means, that probably the large one can have a market module installed. Would be interesting to see further details, like fuel consumption, amount of ME and TE enhancement with rigs, etc.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5913	Posted - 2016.10.01 09:32:06 - [58] - Quote Malcanis wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: Anyone else notice the decline of activity in the smaller hubs? I have nothing to back my opinion, I just feel like the smaller hubs are slowing down. Opinions please Hi sec PvP has been over-nerfed, leading to a removal of "terrain" - the cost to move goods has effectively fallen, thus reducing the incentive to shop or sell anywhere but the largest hub. I dispute that the cost to move goods has fallen. I send a lot of 1-4 billion collateral loads from Jita to Dodixie. Some small ones (e.g. 50000 units Morphite, or 10 pirate battleship BPCs) that are small enough to fit into brick tanked strategic cruisers or battleships; most are Orca/DST loads (e.g. 10000 units Robotics); and some are much bulkier (e.g. 100 units Taranis). For all sorts of collaterals, and all sorts of loads, transport costs are higher than they were 4 years ago. What has happened is that highsec PVP has been hit enough that only professionalized organisations (Marmite, CODE, Miniluv, the Russian gank fleet, some other mercs) have been able to keep doing it. People that might have dabbled in highsec PVP four years ago now either don't bother, or join one of those groups. All are very good at what they do and are generally fun communities to hang around in, meaning that the dabblers then become 100% focused on highsec PVP rather than spending only 5% of their time doing it. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Mr Crowley United Scrubs of New Eden 0	Posted - 2016.10.03 02:10:02 - [59] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Malcanis wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: Anyone else notice the decline of activity in the smaller hubs? I have nothing to back my opinion, I just feel like the smaller hubs are slowing down. Opinions please Hi sec PvP has been over-nerfed, leading to a removal of "terrain" - the cost to move goods has effectively fallen, thus reducing the incentive to shop or sell anywhere but the largest hub. I dispute that the cost to move goods has fallen. I send a lot of 1-4 billion collateral loads from Jita to Dodixie. Some small ones (e.g. 50000 units Morphite, or 10 pirate battleship BPCs) that are small enough to fit into brick tanked strategic cruisers or battleships; most are Orca/DST loads (e.g. 10000 units Robotics); and some are much bulkier (e.g. 100 units Taranis). For all sorts of collaterals, and all sorts of loads, transport costs are higher than they were 4 years ago. What has happened is that highsec PVP has been hit enough that only professionalized organisations (Marmite, CODE, Miniluv, the Russian gank fleet, some other mercs) have been able to keep doing it. People that might have dabbled in highsec PVP four years ago now either don't bother, or join one of those groups. All are very good at what they do and are generally fun communities to hang around in, meaning that the dabblers then become 100% focused on highsec PVP rather than spending only 5% of their time doing it. I think high sec trade is fine, I know the "ganking" which is really just piracy has had little affect on that. Now keep in mind were talking about .5 and up. Even one jump in anything lower is not high sec. Those area's have had their markets utterly destroyed. If a region is primarily low sec. The market has almost no momentum. At best it is farmed by people selling mods for double value, or they are exporting mins to high sec for sale. Thats if any mining is done in there, which I question. Now we can all call this 'pvp', or whatever you want to, but the reality is the majority of people who exist in low sec are poachers looking to club seals. The easiest prey also has the best meat. Honestly some of these groups in low sec need to start policing their own area's.
Violet Hurst Fedaya Recon 97	Posted - 2016.10.09 10:08:57 - [60] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: What do yall think? Do you think the decline in hubs is due to overall decline of eve playerbase/activity, or is there more to it than that? Is it possible that for whatever reason more and more players are simply going to jita to buy assets versus using lower tier hubs? I think it maybe a combination of both, and not just eve being in a state of significant/rapid decline. I think one contributing factor might be that especially cross-region traders used to rely on market aggregators such as Eve Central and other third-party tools a lot. So maybe trades have slowed down because at the moment they can only see half of all market orders? Right at the moment what you pay the higher NPC station broker fees for is CREST integration.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 287	Posted - 2016.10.13 22:28:47 - [61] - Quote This thread has been on going for a while, and still at front page so not really a necro, but just updates from my observation and thoughts. 1. I logged into Rens yesterday in what was pretty reasonable EU peak time zone, and the local count was 43. Trade volume's so low that stuff just don't sell much. I am now officially pulling out of Rens. It's just not worth the time and effort to log in there to update orders anymore with such low traffic. 2. Friend of mine do some seeding on far away places from hubs. He went to Dodixie, the nearest so called 'major' hub, and he could not get all the varieties of ammo he wanted/usually bought from there to seed. When a trade 'hub' is lacking ammo for people to buy, there is a serious issue. Especially considering that Dodixie is still unique in that it has lvl 4 Agent right in the trading station. 3. I have done some trading in Amarr over the years too. Amarr now is like what Dodixie used to be when people started to notice Dodixie is declining. I stress that point - Amarr now is not even comparable to Dodixie in its peak. Amarr now is comparable to Dodixie few months ago when it was on its downhill turn. 4. Even Jita trade volumes are not what they used to be. Sure some things still sell like hot cakes, but parts of the specific market segments are dropping already, and I don't see this as only because of pvp meta change or lack of less players logged on, etc. There was some talk before about how much ISK was removed from the game when Citadels came out, and how ISK was the king now. I have same sentiments now. Surely people more experienced and clever than me will find good investment opportunities. But for now, just across the board in general terms, I estimate that raw ISK will be very valuable. I do not agree that PLEX will rise and go through the roof with alpha toons coming in and November changes. Industrial complexes will see more ISK removed from the game, costs for finished products will get cheaper, while influx of alpha toons not helping to revitalise New Eden in a way CCP has hoped. I see freefall coming. People will sell currently valuable assets for peanuts. People will sell at loss to hold on to ISK than keep things as assets. PLEX will go below 1b again, and will not bounce back for a while except for occasional spikes from manipulations that cannot be sustained for long term. I'm not saying "EVE is dying", but difficult times are coming for traders. The new complexes and alpha toons will not revitalise or boost the economy as people have hoped for. I think in for a mid-long term depression. Doom and gloom (TM) "When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them, and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 12	Posted - 2016.10.13 23:25:44 - [62] - Quote I'm starting to think it may have a lot to do with CODE and mercs mass deccing industry corps.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3011	Posted - 2016.10.14 08:05:19 - [63] - Quote Can we somehow figure out what artificial volume was generated just by the low margin / high volume station traders? I'm my own NPC alt.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5916	Posted - 2016.10.14 12:41:14 - [64] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Can we somehow figure out what artificial volume was generated just by the low margin / high volume station traders? We mostly don't sell to each other. Judging by the amounts purchased, I would estimate that 70% of my stock comes from manufacturers, 20% from looters (including both ratting loot and PVP loot), and 10% from other traders (usually when I've posted a buy order too high, but sometimes they are just desperate for liquidity). And on the selling front, 80% goes to people buying to use, 10% to people buying for resale, and 10% to speculative hoarders. This comes from analyzing the amounts bought (e.g. someone selling me 100 of a module probably built them; someone selling me 2 probably just looted them) and sold (someone buying 1-8 Light Neutron Blaster II probably wants to use them, someone buying a multiple of 8 is probably buying bulk gank supplies, someone buying an entire stack is often buying for resale). I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5916	Posted - 2016.10.14 12:46:21 - [65] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: I'm starting to think it may have a lot to do with CODE and mercs mass deccing industry corps. Also, margins are tighter in jita and surrounding citadels why sell your **** anywhere else. Wardecs encourage geographical spreading. If Marmite dec you, you can usually operate completely unhindered in backwater areas of contiguous highsec but you would want to stay clear of Jita, Dodi, Amarr and maybe the two microhubs. We have more of an impact in CODE (and understanding CODE's impact is the main way I make ISK on the Jita to Dodi export business) but we can't take credit for these changes in the landscape. In particular we have had very little activity near Hek, and Hek has fallen from hub to microhub status without us there. If Amarr and Dodi do follow the others down to microhub status, though, the next Burn Jita will be incredible. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 383	Posted - 2016.10.14 17:14:27 - [66] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Can we somehow figure out what artificial volume was generated just by the low margin / high volume station traders? I can only give an estimate of production to trade ratio. The data is taken from September economic report. Total production per month is 85T, and total trade is 570T. I think station trader resell mostly PLEX and injectors. Those are in the league of their own, and this trade doesnt really affect the "usual" economy.
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 12	Posted - 2016.10.14 22:15:20 - [67] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: The Fukuzawa wrote: I'm starting to think it may have a lot to do with CODE and mercs mass deccing industry corps. Also, margins are tighter in jita and surrounding citadels why sell your **** anywhere else. Wardecs encourage geographical spreading. If Marmite dec you, you can usually operate completely unhindered in backwater areas of contiguous highsec but you would want to stay clear of Jita, Dodi, Amarr and maybe the two microhubs. We have more of an impact in CODE (and understanding CODE's impact is the main way I make ISK on the Jita to Dodi export business) but we can't take credit for these changes in the landscape. In particular we have had very little activity near Hek, and Hek has fallen from hub to microhub status without us there. If Amarr and Dodi do follow the others down to microhub status, though, the next Burn Jita will be incredible. CODE and mercs camp the pipes to all the hubs, it has to be having an impact, but im sure without code/mercs hubs would contine to decline
Ria Nieyli 46469	Posted - 2016.10.15 00:17:00 - [68] - Quote Toobo wrote: This thread has been on going for a while, and still at front page so not really a necro, but just updates from my observation and thoughts. 1. I logged into Rens yesterday in what was pretty reasonable EU peak time zone, and the local count was 43. Trade volume's so low that stuff just don't sell much. I am now officially pulling out of Rens. It's just not worth the time and effort to log in there to update orders anymore with such low traffic. 2. Friend of mine do some seeding on far away places from hubs. He went to Dodixie, the nearest so called 'major' hub, and he could not get all the varieties of ammo he wanted/usually bought from there to seed. When a trade 'hub' is lacking ammo for people to buy, there is a serious issue. Especially considering that Dodixie is still unique in that it has lvl 4 Agent right in the trading station. 3. I have done some trading in Amarr over the years too. Amarr now is like what Dodixie used to be when people started to notice Dodixie is declining. I stress that point - Amarr now is not even comparable to Dodixie in its peak. Amarr now is comparable to Dodixie few months ago when it was on its downhill turn. 4. Even Jita trade volumes are not what they used to be. Sure some things still sell like hot cakes, but parts of the specific market segments are dropping already, and I don't see this as only because of pvp meta change or lack of less players logged on, etc. There was some talk before about how much ISK was removed from the game when Citadels came out, and how ISK was the king now. I have same sentiments now. Surely people more experienced and clever than me will find good investment opportunities. But for now, just across the board in general terms, I estimate that raw ISK will be very valuable. I do not agree that PLEX will rise and go through the roof with alpha toons coming in and November changes. Industrial complexes will see more ISK removed from the game, costs for finished products will get cheaper, while influx of alpha toons not helping to revitalise New Eden in a way CCP has hoped. I see freefall coming. People will sell currently valuable assets for peanuts. People will sell at loss to hold on to ISK than keep things as assets. PLEX will go below 1b again, and will not bounce back for a while except for occasional spikes from manipulations that cannot be sustained for long term. I'm not saying "EVE is dying", but difficult times are coming for traders. The new complexes and alpha toons will not revitalise or boost the economy as people have hoped for. I think in for a mid-long term depression. Doom and gloom (TM) Market makers have pretty much pulled out of some of the previously moving items in Jita already. Buy orders aren't getting replenished, but there seems to be a bit of a backlog of supply. Interesting times, and quite a stark contrast to five months ago. Although, I suspect that might just be due to the summer slump in player numbers. The spread for those gewgaws is pretty good right, but if nobody is buying them, people disembark from the market. "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 291	Posted - 2016.10.15 16:28:10 - [69] - Quote It is interesting times indeed. How to make ISK in a shrinking markets with demand falling and people dumping stocks. Some would consider this goos time to buy, but at the same time Alpha toons cannot increae the demand for T2/T3 and highend gears, unless they do go Omega. Player count probably go up with alpha toons but the skill cap is an interesting barrier that limits the impact of population growth in demand for certain product lines. "When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them, and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 12	Posted - 2016.10.15 23:03:38 - [70] - Quote Toobo wrote: It is interesting times indeed. How to make ISK in a shrinking markets with demand falling and people dumping stocks. Some would consider this goos time to buy, but at the same time Alpha toons cannot increae the demand for T2/T3 and highend gears, unless they do go Omega. Player count probably go up with alpha toons but the skill cap is an interesting barrier that limits the impact of population growth in demand for certain product lines. Id imagine that CCP is not only hoping that alphas are more likely to stick around now that the trial is unlimited, but also are hoping to pull veterans who have moved on back in. Now that vets can still interact with the community without a sub, its likely to pull many back into the game. I'm sure many others may sub for a few months before they take a break again. I can see vets subbing up for a month or two at a time just to reinforce their friends.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 292	Posted - 2016.10.16 06:22:16 - [71] - Quote Fukuzawa, yeah I have originally been sceptical about Alpha accounts, but I've grown more positive about it. I'm unsure how much this will translate into sustainable growth, but if nothing else, it will definitely bring some old friends back, which is great. "When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them, and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 383	Posted - 2016.10.16 15:06:48 - [72] - Quote What if it's not a decline, but rather a transformation of markets? Let's take a look at the recent economic report again, and compare it to the number of active players. A year ago we had roughly the same online numbers, but the production rate back then was much weaker than it is right now. You may argue that production per player ratio might fluctuate, but no. If we trace back as far as the available data goes, this ration seems to be pretty consistent. Anyway, today's economy output is the same as in January '15, when we had 45k peak online - but we dont see it in the market. So where did all the money go? My guess is that people are producing (and buying) new toys. The previous big expansion gave us some: the citadels and revamped capships. They are not as numerous, but they are quite expensive. As a consequence, we've seen a liquidity shock on the onset of the expansion - which caused unprecedented drop in PLEX price. But evidently, that was not sustainable, as PLEX regained its value. What followed was the next round of liquidity squeeze, but now instead of PLEX sale consumers refrain from buying FMCGs. What's more interesting IMO, is that very soon we'll see a new set of toys: ECs and Rorqual. If CCP does it right, they can be very desirable for a new layer of consumers. That is, we still have Citadel toys for PVP folks and we'll have the new ones for indy guys on top of that. Well, that can cause a serious outflow of cash from the traditional markets. And it probably will. Also, remember that the new toys compete with FMCGs not only in terms of liquidity, but also in terms of attention span. Who wants to build ammo when you can build a cool space station instead? So yeah. Doom and gloom. Sell your traditional stocks as fast as you can. As for me, I'll take a look at how I can take a better share of those new markets.
Ishido Attaka Czerka. 14	Posted - 2016.10.16 16:24:13 - [73] - Quote CCP tryed to make null industry independent from the high sec market hubs and succeeded. Nothing more. Now producers in null regions has all their BPO safe and materials in boosted null ore. High sec markets, except Jita will decline, cause from null producers point of view it does not matter if they move stuff to Jita or Dodixie. Just few jumps more out of few dozens of jumps.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 293	Posted - 2016.10.16 17:29:43 - [74] - Quote Skia, good point. I haven't compared the data myself, but if as you say the production value is roughly similar, while we have more new high value things to build (and we see them enough in space already to assume that they are built en masse), then it follows that FMCG production is lower than before. However, I think there are enough stock of these goods in market and people's hangars already that I don't see the supply falling short of demand any time soon. What's also interesting is that new EC will give bonus to producing these small stuff in HS. But where will the demand will come from, and will it be enough to balance out the increased production speed and material savings. :p "When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them, and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
The Fukuzawa New Eden Trade Group 12	Posted - 2016.10.16 21:28:57 - [75] - Quote makes sense guys, good talk
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 360	Posted - 2016.10.20 08:52:07 - [76] - Quote I quit hauling to places when the gankers became highly emergent, I cant even go places in a t1 bb with out being shot at, my only hauler I use now is my runners "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
erg cz Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 501	Posted - 2016.10.20 15:19:46 - [77] - Quote It seems to me, that not only market in gallente high sec space is evaporating, but also industry cost indexes go down... Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra week of Eve for free!
SJ Astralana Syncore 142	Posted - 2016.10.20 22:53:11 - [78] - Quote I've just seen a current Market Research Report on Dodixie, and it's the best market I've ever seen. With a proper understanding of T1 production, it's at the moment an absolute isk printing opportunity. I made a third of a tril in Amarr; only out of courtesy do I not personally go here to slaughter it. Again, the limiting factor is the number of items that can be produced in a day multiplied by their profit. The maximum factor is the daily average volume multiplied by profit, divided by active competitors. The lessor of the two will tell a producer what to build, and what BPOs to research. Every factor is available through CREST. Advanced concepts include managing capital, logistics, and price change strategies. Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
TheSmokingHertog Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium 435	Posted - 2016.10.21 14:04:17 - [79] - Quote erg cz wrote: It seems to me, that not only market in gallente high sec space is evaporating, but also industry cost indexes go down... Is the general public aware of Cost indexes? I mean, is the bulk production of stuff dependent on it? "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3037	Posted - 2016.10.21 14:34:20 - [80] - Quote SJ Astralana wrote: I've just seen a current Market Research Report on Dodixie Mind sharing the report? I'm my own NPC alt.
erg cz Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 503	Posted - 2016.10.21 14:36:10 - [81] - Quote TheSmokingHertog wrote: erg cz wrote: It seems to me, that not only market in gallente high sec space is evaporating, but also industry cost indexes go down... Is the general public aware of Cost indexes? I mean, is the bulk production of stuff dependent on it? Aware or not - it does not matter regarding to the thema of the thread. Cost indexes are merely an indicator here... But on th the other side Capital Doomsday Weapon Mount before the high sec production nerf would cost you almost 1 milion to build in Dodixie and now - 3/4 of that. If you go to Fricoure (was one of the main factories in same region) - now it will cost you only about 200 000... Instaed of far over 400 000 it used to be. You feel the difference? Production is fading in a rapid tempo just few jumps from the high sec market hubs. Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra week of Eve for free!
Mr Crowley United Scrubs of New Eden Sarcos Federation 0	Posted - 2016.10.24 19:18:29 - [82] - Quote The Fukuzawa wrote: Toobo wrote: It is interesting times indeed. How to make ISK in a shrinking markets with demand falling and people dumping stocks. Some would consider this goos time to buy, but at the same time Alpha toons cannot increae the demand for T2/T3 and highend gears, unless they do go Omega. Player count probably go up with alpha toons but the skill cap is an interesting barrier that limits the impact of population growth in demand for certain product lines. Id imagine that CCP is not only hoping that alphas are more likely to stick around now that the trial is unlimited, but also are hoping to pull veterans who have moved on back into the game full time. I'm sure many others may sub for a few months before they take a break again. I can see vets subbing up for a month or two at a time just to reinforce their friends if needed, or for an offensive. This expansion allows vets who are busier in life to stay in contact with the community without paying a sub. That is what i like about it most. CCP is interested in two things. More subscriptions and more quality gameplay. With regards to subscriptions they don't care if your plexiglass or buying, so long as it's getting bought. Quality of gameplay is CCPs biggest fear, because that will impact the subscriptions. Not many new people play this game. That's a huge problem for them. Pretty much everyone is running around in T2 stuff now. I remember when an anointed shield hardner was gold and now you can't hardly sell them cause everyone is in T2. This plays into market concentration also. Ignorant people will buy from wherever. Anyway my point is that the characters are aged and new people don't seem to stick around to deal with the imbalance of experienced and wealthy vs unskilled and poor. Most of the experienced and rich spend 50% of their game time looking for. Someone to poach, whose easiest to poach? So CCP can choose to introduce T3 mods and a whole new tier of skills to train for them, further widening the devid, or they can incentivize the hell out of new players coming to play. Obviously they choose the latter. Free to play and an influx of minerals via new content means getting blown up has less impact.
Bentley Goodfriend Honest Bentley and Associates 0	Posted - 2016.10.25 07:46:20 - [83] - Quote SJ Astralana wrote: I've just seen a current Market Research Report on Dodixie, and it's the best market I've ever seen. With a proper understanding of T1 production, it's at the moment an absolute isk printing opportunity. I made a third of a tril in Amarr; only out of courtesy do I not personally go here to slaughter it. Again, the limiting factor is the number of items that can be produced in a day multiplied by their profit. The maximum factor is the daily average volume multiplied by profit, divided by active competitors. The lessor of the two will tell a producer what to build, and what BPOs to research. Every factor is available through CREST. Advanced concepts include managing capital, logistics, and price change strategies. I agree with this. Every market will present possibilities. For the flexible trader and producer there are obvious opportunities in Dodixie and the greater region. Many segments still need a correction but this is in itself an opportunity.
Zarianna Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.10.26 20:43:28 - [84] - Quote Bentley Goodfriend wrote: [quote=SJ Astralana]I've just seen a current Market Research Report on Dodixie, and it's the best market I've ever seen. With a proper understanding of T1 production, it's at the moment an absolute isk printing opportunity. I made a third of a tril in Amarr; only out of courtesy do I not personally go here to slaughter it. Again, the limiting factor is the number of items that can be produced in a day multiplied by their profit. The maximum factor is the daily average volume multiplied by profit, divided by active competitors. The lessor of the two will tell a producer what to build, and what BPOs to research. Every factor is available through CREST. Advanced concepts include managing capital, logistics, and price change strategies. Are you using something custom or 'off-the-shelf', so to speak, to make queries to CREST?
SJ Astralana Syncore 143	Posted - 2016.10.26 21:11:48 - [85] - Quote Zarianna wrote: Are you using something custom or 'off-the-shelf', so to speak, to make queries to CREST? It's custom, but there's c# sources at https://bitbucket.org/jtdunlop/epm that could could be sliced into something workable. Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
Zarianna Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.10.26 22:39:28 - [86] - Quote SJ Astralana wrote: Zarianna wrote: Are you using something custom or 'off-the-shelf', so to speak, to make queries to CREST? It's custom, but there's c# sources at https://bitbucket.org/jtdunlop/epm that could could be sliced into something workable. There's a console app that generates the report that could be hard-coded to a market hub. Not an easy job but others have got it running. Thanks, I'll take a look!
Korobov Tesla New Eden Nationalist Movement 3	Posted - 2016.11.02 07:27:18 - [87] - Quote The real question is how will the new Alpha clones affect Hubs both player Hubs via Citadels and classical hubs such as Amarr and Dodixie? I don't screw around much with manufacturing and trade but I was considering starting a manufacturing alt to take advantage of the infux of new players who will inevitable come due to free to play. Unfortunate due to RL I never got around to it.
TheSmokingHertog Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium 439	Posted - 2016.11.02 08:38:41 - [88] - Quote Korobov Tesla wrote: The real question is how will the new Alpha clones affect Hubs both player Hubs via Citadels and classical hubs such as Amarr and Dodixie? I don't screw around much with manufacturing and trade but I was considering starting a manufacturing alt to take advantage of the infux of new players who will inevitable come due to free to play. Unfortunate due to RL I never got around to it. The tax change is still working its way into products with swing markets that are like 3 to 6 months. So, my guess is that the concentration of product availability will increase even more over time. Alpha's wont add enough mass into the total consumer product basket to change that. "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Kaivarian Coste Stellar Supply 94	Posted - 2016.11.02 14:30:13 - [89] - Quote Korobov Tesla wrote: The real question is how will the new Alpha clones affect Hubs both player Hubs via Citadels and classical hubs such as Amarr and Dodixie? I don't screw around much with manufacturing and trade but I was considering starting a manufacturing alt to take advantage of the infux of new players who will inevitable come due to free to play. Unfortunate due to RL I never got around to it. I remember as a newbie, I didn't care about fitting my ship at trade hubs. All I cared about was finding whatever weapons would fit my ship at the station I had docked to run missions. (For a long time, I actually thought Oursalert was the "capital" system of Eve since there was so many agents there. Anything I needed, I'd just search locally). With Alpha newbies, they'll probably stay away from Jita and stick to their mission hubs (at least until they know better). Systems with alot of lvl 1-3 agents will probably be your best bet.
motie one Secret Passage 124	Posted - 2016.11.04 22:34:35 - [90] - Quote Kaivarian Coste wrote: Korobov Tesla wrote: The real question is how will the new Alpha clones affect Hubs both player Hubs via Citadels and classical hubs such as Amarr and Dodixie? I don't screw around much with manufacturing and trade but I was considering starting a manufacturing alt to take advantage of the infux of new players who will inevitable come due to free to play. Unfortunate due to RL I never got around to it. I remember as a newbie, I didn't care about fitting my ship at trade hubs. All I cared about was finding whatever weapons would fit my ship at the station I had docked to run missions. (For a long time, I actually thought Oursalert was the "capital" system of Eve since there was so many agents there. Anything I needed, I'd just search locally). With Alpha newbies, they'll probably stay away from Jita and stick to their mission hubs (at least until they know better). Systems with alot of lvl 1-3 agents will probably be your best bet. You have a very good point, this may significantly change the trade hubs we are familiar with. They may move to entirely different locations.
Strrog SYNDAX CORPORATION Axiom Vocation Alliance 11	Posted - 2017.01.04 01:59:15 - [91] - Quote Ah these citadels really messing with hubs eh? On my trading/indy alt, I actually just unchecked jump 0 0 setting and saw way more competitive pricing on buy orders around Dodixie... holy crap the game took a big turn after 4 years of haitus. Which brings the question of do we get more competitors in t2 production because botane- dixie research and production point blank hub? Your thoughts?
Strrog SYNDAX CORPORATION Axiom Vocation Alliance 11	Posted - 2017.01.04 02:00:17 - [92] - Quote when exactly this hub shift started?
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3259	Posted - 2017.01.04 08:18:13 - [93] - Quote Citadel patch, the broker fee change and the market fortizars. I'm my own NPC alt.
Kousaka Otsu Shigure 57	Posted - 2017.01.04 16:33:41 - [94] - Quote I've been forming a market plan these past few weeks and even before that, reading all kinda stuff about the happenings in eve (was unsubscribed and waiting for alpha clones, immediately subbed anyway after Ascension). Anyway, in a string of incidents that has been happening in hisec and null, I am guessing the changes in the nullsec regions in the north has been affecting the northern hubs, or the regions connected to it. - Been seeing goons down at Amarr these past few weeks - Pandemic Horde attack on Perimeter uh.. this week - Listed items related to mining (rorqual changes), drone ai prices, etc. - WWB and Tribute war changes of the regions north - I was looking at region maps in dotlan and just realized that moee8 was connected to lonetrek-jita (so that's why they needed it..) - Ammo, certain rigs and blueprint copies.. specially blueprint copies. There was once a healthy market around some then.. poof. - Rumblings about the coming Economic Report, particularly mining Of course, it might be just burnt out players or the holidays.. etc. Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave Current Project Status: Now for the fun part: Generating Tags
Strrog SYNDAX CORPORATION Axiom Vocation Alliance 11	Posted - 2017.01.04 23:09:20 - [95] - Quote Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote: I've been forming a market plan these past few weeks and even before that, reading all kinda stuff about the happenings in eve (was unsubscribed and waiting for alpha clones, immediately subbed anyway after Ascension). Anyway, in a string of incidents that has been happening in hisec and null, I am guessing the changes in the nullsec regions in the north has been affecting the northern hubs, or the regions connected to it. - Been seeing goons down at Amarr these past few weeks - Pandemic Horde attack on Perimeter uh.. this week - Listed items related to mining (rorqual changes), drone ai prices, etc. - WWB and Tribute war changes of the regions north - I was looking at region maps in dotlan and just realized that moee8 was connected to lonetrek-jita (so that's why they needed it..) - Ammo, certain rigs and blueprint copies.. specially blueprint copies. There was once a healthy market around some then.. poof. - Rumblings about the coming Economic Report, particularly mining Of course, it might be just burnt out players or the holidays.. etc. Why certain BPCs market went bad?

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