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Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.08 08:46:38 -
[1] - Quote
Hi All
I enjoy running missions and have just done enough to do get my first Level 4 security mission, looking for a little advice on ship and fitting.
I am Caldari and have done my previous missions with the following ships.
Level 1 : Kestrel Level 2 : Corax Level 3 : Drake
So as you can see I like missile boats, it suits my style and gameplay at the moment.
So I know the obvious progression for me would be the Raven but I am open to other missile boats. I haven't used Drones as of yet as well I haven't had a need to due to keeping enemies at range and killing with missiles.
Now I prefer a higher tank in case I get into trouble, especially with missions such as The Blockade where I haven't paid attention and took out triggers and ended up fighting large amounts of ships at once, I know a higher tank means less DPS but I don't mind running missions a little slower if I can survive anything.
So what are good recommendations for a ship and build for Level 4s based on the above, also listing essential skills would be good to ensure I have what is needed to fly it as I am also new to battleships.
Cheers
Alucard |
Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Break A Wish Foundation
1562
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Posted - 2016.08.08 09:39:49 -
[2] - Quote
Ship Choices Raven Navy Raven (Faction) Rattlesnake (Pirate Faction) Golem (Marauder)
Skills to train Cruise Missile Torpedos Heavy Drones Sentry Drones Gallente Battleship Marauders
You may need to spend some time training the drone support skills, they are very important if you choose to fly a rattlesnake
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atomic killer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2016.08.08 09:39:54 -
[3] - Quote
you can do lvl4 in Cerberus, Tengu, Raven, Navy Raven, Golem or in Barghest. It all depends what you enjoy to fly ! |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.08 09:51:21 -
[4] - Quote
Hi
Thanks for the replys, I enjoy flying missile boats so that's what I will stick to.
As the missions will be in High Sec, if I spend money on the more blingy boats CNR, Rattle or Golem will I have to worry about being ganked, if so maybe Raven is the way to go for me as I haven't done any PvP and its not really an area I am any good at.
Can the Raven be tanked to survive level 4s in an extreme mess up on my part?
Any good high tank builds for the Raven?
Cheers
Alucard |
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
863
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Posted - 2016.08.08 11:13:55 -
[5] - Quote
Alucard Katelo wrote:Can the Raven be tanked to survive level 4s in an extreme mess up on my part?
Dear, dear sweet and deliciously naive friend, you're going to have to define "extreme mess up".
"Extreme Mess Up" in EVE can take many varied, esoteric and obtuse forms. There's "messing up" and then there's "{redacted} up". For simplicities sake, assume that there's absolutely nothing you can do to save yourself from a {redacted} up.
For example, are we talking about forgetting to turn on a hardener, a situation where some judiocious overheating can save the day. Or are we talking about taking the bait and shooting at that oh-so-not-at-all-suspicious Ishkur that's been having a crack at your MTU kind of 'extreme mess up'?
As I understand things, having never flown either a Raven nor a Level Four Mission, a careful pilot can indeed complete level four missions in a rather nondescript T2 fit Raven.
"Extreme Mess Ups" will get you killed, regardless what kind of ship your in. Which is why I'm going to suggest that you take some serious time on those support skills. Engineering, Navigation and Shield Tanking (since you like Caldari ships).
Good luck, have fun. If you're ever feeling pissed off at missions, ideally before you hit that point, go buy a Kestrel and shoot a random someone in the face.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
517
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Posted - 2016.08.08 11:20:27 -
[6] - Quote
Last time i checked you could do L4s in a Drake, but you'll probably make more ISK/hr in L3s with it unless you got some good skills.
My advice: Get Medium T2 Drones + support skills for them, and get a Gila. Combines missiles, drones, small sig, brick tank, and is not very demanding in ship skills. You can easily get a 600-700 DPS fit here with mediocre skills. |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.08 11:29:26 -
[7] - Quote
Hi
Thanks for the replys.
As far as extreme mess I guess the only example I could provide is triggering all spawns in the blockade by killing the trigger ships which I did for a bit of fun in Level 3, my Drake was able to tank all of the incoming damage as long as I stayed at range for most ships.
I do have a tanked Gila that I used for some level 3s as a change from my Drake but to be honest, just don't like that ship.
Cheers
Alucard |
Jan van Riebeeck
Panama Tax Shelter
20
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Posted - 2016.08.08 11:51:32 -
[8] - Quote
Alucard Katelo wrote:Hi
Thanks for the replys.
As far as extreme mess I guess the only example I could provide is triggering all spawns in the blockade by killing the trigger ships which I did for a bit of fun in Level 3, my Drake was able to tank all of the incoming damage as long as I stayed at range for most ships.
I do have a tanked Gila that I used for some level 3s as a change from my Drake but to be honest, just don't like that ship.
Cheers
Alucard
If you did not like the Gila, then I would suggest that you stay away from the Rattlesnake.
If you enjoy the Drake, then I would recommend Raven -> Golem. You could also look at the Barghest, though I have never personally used it. I know a few people swear by it to blitz missions (as an alternative to the Mach)
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atomic killer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2016.08.08 14:11:20 -
[9] - Quote
Alucard Katelo wrote:Hi
Thanks for the replys.
As far as extreme mess I guess the only example I could provide is triggering all spawns in the blockade by killing the trigger ships which I did for a bit of fun in Level 3, my Drake was able to tank all of the incoming damage as long as I stayed at range for most ships.
I do have a tanked Gila that I used for some level 3s as a change from my Drake but to be honest, just don't like that ship.
Cheers
Alucard
Try Tengu with Hams...it's fun ship to fly. Plug in decent implants and it can do 1000 DPS. Also if you decide to move to Lvl 5 missions, Tengu can do them as well. Solo. |
Roci Nantes
Spongeworks Ltd. Snuggle Struggle.
42
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Posted - 2016.08.08 14:25:02 -
[10] - Quote
The questions I would ask, is what are you skilled to fly?(And how deep are your pockets) The Rattlesnake is a very forgiving ship due to its massive tank, but you do have to have BS skills in two factions and a large portion of its damage comes from it's drones. If you don't have good drone skills you are losing out a bit. Not to say it is useless but it just lowers your dps.
If you can fly a marauder, plus have the isk to buy/fit one, then it makes a great mission ship. The Golem will handle L4's even when you make mistakes. But the hull alone is over a billion isk, so even with non-bling fit you could crack the two billion mark.
Blinging out any battleship, makes you more of a target to be ganked. Also, if you fly expensive stuff in and out of Jita, you are bound to get wardec'd if you are in a corp. But that is just eve.
I have tried the Tengu/gila bit for level 4's and just don't care for it. Gila needs to much drone management in some of the missions. If you make a mistake you could pay for it with your ship.(Gila is my favorite ship in the game so I don't say that lightly) The Tengu felt more secure but still took forever and you will be warping off if you get into the "mess" you mentioned. |
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
947
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Posted - 2016.08.08 14:26:06 -
[11] - Quote
Gila, Drake, Tengu and many others are viable options for level 4 missions, they are not the best for new characters with low skills however since all of them are in some way are fairly skill intensive to make them work well. Raven is generally the better option in terms of skill costs, if you have the ISK then stepping up to the Navy Raven in many ways is a better option. The ultimate missiles based level 4 mission ship would be the Golem if you are looking at a longer term goal.
Suicide ganking was a question no one else has touched. There are many factors that come into play when looking at this aspect, so many that it is impossible to give you any absolute ideas, with that in mind here are a few general things to keep in mind. The busier the system or area the more likely you are to be ganked because the more people there are the more targets the gankers have to choose from.
Cost of ship and fit are factors and the more expensive the ship and the more expensive the fit (bling) the more likely you are to attract a ganking group.
Tank is another factor, it is considerably harder to gank a brick tanked marauder than it is a high DPS output CNR.
Being aware of your situation and who / what is around you and keeping up with your d-scan to look for combat probes etc are the best things you can do to keep yourself safe.
My theory is it is all pixels and as such they can all be replaced very easily so my advice is to take the usual precautions and then fly what you like and that you are willing to replace. I know players that run missions with Sisters of EvE agents in multi billion ISK ships all the time, when they lose them they simply buy and sell plex and buy another and keep going. I know other players that are extremely paranoid about being ganked so they fly the cheapest fits they can get away with and never venture into the more highly populated areas. You will have to look it all over and decide what is right for you. |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.08 15:02:33 -
[12] - Quote
Hi All
Thanks for all the responses, at the moment, I can afford to buy and fit a raven, so looks like I am limited to that ship at the moment, then maybe work towards the Golem.
As I am only a casual player an hour or two here and there it will take me a long time to afford and fly the more expensive ships but I guess that is good as my skills should evolve with the affordability of the ship in question, what I mean is by the time I can afford the Golem I should have the skills to fly it aswell.
As I am sticking with the Raven just now, any good high tank builds, I know DPS suffers but I am not looking to blitz missions so a slower pace is fine for me.
I have about 1bill isk to spend although that would be my entire wallet gone so maybe 800mill so I have enough to keep myself in missiles, lol.
More expensive builds CNR for example are fine for something to work towards if its better progression into a Golem.
Cheers
Alucard |
John Henke
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2016.08.08 17:42:22 -
[13] - Quote
A Fit could look like this:
[Raven, Serpentis Tank] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermal Dissipation Field II Thermal Dissipation Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Phased Scoped Target Painter
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
If you have cpu-problems, change the Drone Damage Amplifier for a Nanofiber. Once you get more used to the lvl 4 missions change the fourth hardener for something else. |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.08 17:53:15 -
[14] - Quote
Hi John Henke
That's for the fitting, the only real issue I have with this is no AB, the raven is that slow I would never keep anything at range or is that not needed with this build?
Cheers
Alucard |
John Henke
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2016.08.08 18:28:55 -
[15] - Quote
Hi dude,
the advantage of this fit (and of missiles in general) is that don't have to keep range. You don't have to look at tracking or optimal range. In most missions you will land at the gate or close enough to slowly move to the gate and kill everything in the meantime.
Also with the tractorbeam you can tractor in mission items or loot within 24 km range without moving.
The tank should be more than enough. Rule of thumb is that tank + gank should be 1000 with none lower than 250. |
Jazmyn Stone
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
179
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Posted - 2016.08.08 19:06:34 -
[16] - Quote
Alucard,
You could also take a look at Liang's old Raven fit.
It is similar to Henke's, but might be more suited for a newer mission runner, or one with lower skills. Now her fit was before MGCs, and back then the Raven only had 6 midslots. That 7th midslot really helped the Raven.
Rigs: 2x rigor, 1x flare
High: 6x T2 Cruise Launchers (I would go with fury, but applying damage could be tough, so maybe faction) Tractor II (maybe)
Mid; X-L shield booster, (get the biggest one you can afford, or fit) this will be pulsed as needed. Shield Booster II 2x mission specific shield hardeners 1x mission specific shield amplifier Cap Booster II with 800 charges (at least 10 in the hold) the 7th slot, could be many things: TP, MJD, AB, MGC ,
Low. 4x BCU II (I know they're expensive, but Caldari BCUs will help make room for mods) DC II or a Sensor Booster (maybe a Co-processor if your fit is too tight) Raven only targets at 93km.
10 xT2 mission specific light drones
In some missions if things go wrong for you, you may find you would have to pulse the XL SB a lot. The XL SB might not be able to keep up with the incoming damage. Which will require you start using your charges. This will keep you in the mission longer, but when the charges are used up, you may have to GTFO. In other missions, you may not even used the SB at all.
Try different fits and see what you like.
-Jaz
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Kairavi Mrithyakara
1037
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Posted - 2016.08.09 06:35:32 -
[17] - Quote
[Raven, PvE - MURDER ALL THE THINGS]
Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II
Large Micro Jump Drive Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Auto Targeting System II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5
__________________________________________
This fit is all about the range. Warp to mission, MJD out and blap. Even Blockade shouldn't be much trouble with the kind of ranges you're going to be launching from.
CNR's extra tank reallly isn't necessary for L4s. IMO, save your money.
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Viktor Amarr
16
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Posted - 2016.08.09 06:53:37 -
[18] - Quote
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:CNR's extra tank reallly isn't necessary for L4s. IMO, save your money.
CNR isn't about the extra tank, it's about the extra damage application.
The Navy Scorp is about extra tank which due to that frees up slots for more application ending up having better tank AND application compared to the Raven.
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Kairavi Mrithyakara
1037
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Posted - 2016.08.09 07:26:30 -
[19] - Quote
Fair enough. I still wouldn't buy either CN ship, for me they aren't worth the price. |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:14:24 -
[20] - Quote
Hi Kairavi Mrithyakara
Tried your build and it works fine, the main issue I have with it, is when I jump to 100km and snipe the targets it takes so long to get back to gates, which is horrendous.
Cheers
Alucard |
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Cap James Tkirk
Support Fleet Unit Sarcos Federation
158
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:09:15 -
[21] - Quote
Alucard Katelo wrote:Hi Kairavi Mrithyakara
Tried your build and it works fine, the main issue I have with it, is when I jump to 100km and snipe the targets it takes so long to get back to gates, which is horrendous.
Cheers
Alucard
After sniping and clearing the room you should be jumping back to gate. |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:35:30 -
[22] - Quote
Oh my!!!!!
How stupid am I, you know it didn't even cross my mind, lol
Thanks for helping an idiot out.
Alucard |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
201
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Posted - 2016.08.09 15:46:53 -
[23] - Quote
Alucard Katelo wrote:Hi Kairavi Mrithyakara
Tried your build and it works fine, the main issue I have with it, is when I jump to 100km and snipe the targets it takes so long to get back to gates, which is horrendous.
Cheers
Alucard
Really too much jumping around for me. It takes forever for missiles to travel 100km.
If you have a good tank, just stand still, or head to the next gate.
It's all about learning what works best for you. Others may like the MJD, especially to get away from the incoming damage. I don't use it.
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.09 21:16:42 -
[24] - Quote
Hi Ion Kirst
Thanks for the reply, I don't use Drones at all at the moment, I am always generally out of range to use them and have frigates and cruisers destroyed before they get in range, well apart from maybe some missile frigates and cruisers.
Although I do find spider drones annoying and killing them wastes quite a few missiles.
I do enjoy long range sniping but if you can recommend a tank build for the Raven as you suggest I would give it a try to see what method of playstyle I am suited to, close, medium or long range, so far its all been about long range combat.
Cheers
Alucard |
Viktor Amarr
20
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Posted - 2016.08.09 23:12:22 -
[25] - Quote
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:Fair enough. I still wouldn't buy either CN ship, for me they aren't worth the price.
People pay tons of money for 5% implants and sexy modules that they really don't need. Increased damage application = increased completion speed = increased income. |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
202
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Posted - 2016.08.10 01:00:16 -
[26] - Quote
Alucard,
Since you asked:
I would use a fit resembling Henke's or Stone's. I might lean more toward Stone's for obvious reasons. Post #16
Going from long range sniping to close up and personal, is quite a change. This will be forcing you to stay in middle of the battle. You will need a good tank. Obviously the longer it takes you to eliminate targets, the longer your tank has to work.
So for this instance, we're not worrying about range, everyone is coming to you, and eventually they will get within your targeting range, if there not already there. I would put a Damage Control II in the 5th low spot, still using 4 BCUs. I would go with the best xl shield booster that you can buy.
In the 7th mid, (looking at Stone's) I would use either a Target Painter, or a Missile Guidance Computer, to help apply damage.
I would also go with Furys. It may be seem harder to take down little stuff, because they have a large exp rad., but it sure helps on the battle ships.
Also, you have to have good drone skills, to help you with pesky frigates.
Pay close attention to the mission reports, and watch your triggers. I printed out each mission as I ran them, and I pull them out to glance at before I run a mission. Always watch your triggers. If you have to warp out, warp out, get everything back up to 100%, and jump back in and finish it.
I like to dish out as much damage as possible, and be able to apply it. (rigors and flares)
What is your dps?
I also love having a great tank, even if it's over-tanked. (personal preference.) If you can do the most damage that you can, and apply it well, there's nothing wrong with having a great tank.
Eventually, as you run missions, you'll learn what works and what doesn't. And as your skills improve, your damage output will increase, and so will your tank. You may be able to back off on your tank.
Jaz and I have used Liang's Raven fit as a guide for many years. If fact after a hiatus, she has returned to EVE.
Well, that's my 2 cents
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
202
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Posted - 2016.08.10 02:11:24 -
[27] - Quote
2 more cents:
Some implants help too:
CM603 - 3% damage increase of cruise missiles MP703 - 3% increase to missile velocity GP803 - 3% reduction of missile explosion radius TN903 - 3% decrease in factor of targets velocity RL1003 - 3% increase of rate of fire.
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
219
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Posted - 2016.08.10 08:19:31 -
[28] - Quote
If you happen to engage gurista pirates it can get quite hot in the thick of things. If you are getting pointed and jammed there is not much you can do. Drones can help. But they don't necessarily target the very frigates giving you so much trouble. In such situations a mirco jump drive lets you jump out and buff shields or warp to a station. Also the increased sensor strength of the CNR is an additional bonus with these suckers. |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.10 08:55:44 -
[29] - Quote
Hi
Thanks for the replys, the main reason why I have stayed away from Stones or Henkes suggestions is the fact I just cant fit the 6 T2 cruise launchers as I run out of CPU, I can fit 5 then run out by around 50 CPU trying to fit the 6th. So I would have to use the rig slots for CPU instead of damage application.
Cheers
Alucard |
Alucard Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.08.10 09:58:49 -
[30] - Quote
Hi All
On an offtopic just been given the Level 4 Anomic Base mission but cant find it in Eve Survival, is this just a new mission, cant get my Raven into it either.
Cheers
Alucard |
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