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45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
171
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Posted - 2016.08.19 04:32:32 -
[1] - Quote
Hey EvE Players
A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win.
I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost.
I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription.
1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters.
2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK.
3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win.
CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play.
One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market.
I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W.
Thank You
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
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Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
46
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Posted - 2016.08.19 04:57:18 -
[2] - Quote
I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as: - T1's only - Up to frigates only - Only the basic industry ships - Only HS - Industrial restriction - only T1 mods - SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension - no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account - limit skill able to train and levels - etc - (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....)
Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever).
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
171
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Posted - 2016.08.19 04:59:14 -
[3] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as: - T1's only - Up to frigates only - Only the basic industry ships - Only HS - Industrial restriction - only T1 mods - SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension - no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account - limit skill able to train and levels - etc - (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....)
Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever).
I agree with your Idea
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
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Valkin Mordirc
2379
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Posted - 2016.08.19 04:59:55 -
[4] - Quote
If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing.
I don't play F2P MMO's for a reason. Microtransactions are a ******* addicting, horrific model, that I personally do not trust myself with. And if EVE goes to it, for my sake I'll have to quit.
#DeleteTheWeak
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10473
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Posted - 2016.08.19 04:59:55 -
[5] - Quote
This debate has been done and beaten to death.
tldr;
- F2P won't work due to the way the skill system works. Once you have a certain amount of skills (a small amount), you can earn as much ISK, affect the market, and influence warfare as much as you want. This means... -------- Infinite alts to earn ISK with -------- Inflation of pretty much everything -------- Alt shenanigans (infinite scouts, infinite cyno alts, infinite trade alts, infinite holder alts, etc)
- P2W is equally bad. While the current system allows one to buy PLEX and sell for in-game ISK... the way the skills, modules, and ships are balanced means that people with lots of ISK will die in comedic ways due to lack of experience and knowledge. In short, having lots of money does not necessarily make you powerful. True P2W systems generally involve giving hard bonuses and benefits to those with lots of cash... which exist outside of the current balance of things. And the EVE community won't stand for that.
Speaking purely for myself... either is a "game killer" for me as I want to have nothing to do with F2P or P2W games. My experience with both has been terrible content, obvious money grubbing, terrible support, toxic community (if you think anything on the forums is bad now then you obviously haven't been on a F2P game community forum), and unstable online numbers.
How did you Veterans start?
The Mustache and Beard Thread
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
776
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Posted - 2016.08.19 05:00:28 -
[6] - Quote
As long as CCP don't remove the subscription model and free accounts don't accumulate any skillpoints (skill injectors would be needed to learn anything), I have no problem with the idea.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Viktor Amarr
53
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Posted - 2016.08.19 05:23:50 -
[7] - Quote
People who keep advocating for this for personal reasons (generally disguised as a "hey, this would be great for the game") obviously don't understand the implications of such change.
- the game would have to be made annoying and way more grindy in F2P mode so that people will be enticed to pay, but even when they do that the game (still being grindy) wil still suck.
- free expansion updates as EVE has them? Gone, we'll have to pay for updates
- Pay2Win and power creep will occur in order to keep us interested in buying the new FOTM stuff
- CCP's focus will have to change from long term progress towards short term income generation
- paywall keeps out the riffraff, check a game like World of Tanks where every match there's at least 1-2 afk on your side and people so ******** they're too stupid to poop. No thanks
- CCP will (have to) accommodate for those people who are too stupid to poop, they are after all part of their customer base. Do you REALLY want CCP to cater for people like that, in EVE?
Tell us, how is this all a good thing? |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2419
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Posted - 2016.08.19 05:41:58 -
[8] - Quote
I hope EvE never tries to go away from subscription model. It would mess the game up completely. It's a subject that has been discussed a lot, there is probably many forum threads about it in the past if one was curious to read them.
I also play Warframe and I think one should not compare it to EvE at all as they are very different. - Warframe is a FPS. Just that makes it very different from EvE. - Warframe isn't focused so much on large player groups fighting - Most all (all as far as I can think of, but perhaps I don't know some) of the weapons and game-effecting things can be earned in the game. Yes, one can buy them with in-game currency purchased with RL money if one wishes, but one can do the same in EvE also. I just think they are very different games and don't compare well for the most part.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
A wise man sums up EvE
Smoke me a Kipper...
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
327
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Posted - 2016.08.19 05:50:35 -
[9] - Quote
As seriously bad of an idea as this is, they're working on it.
See: skill injectors. All they have to do is stop the skill queue for F2P and we can still grind out more skills. And it does require about $50 worth of training time (and some knowledge of game mechanics, so more for a newbie) to do this.
A signature :o
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
122
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Posted - 2016.08.19 05:52:04 -
[10] - Quote
I wouldn't want to see EvE go F2P, because I fear such a move would necessitate changing the skill system to require time investment. I like to think I could find a better purpose for my time than spend hours grinding skills... or isk, frankly. If I feel terribly strapped for isk, I'll forgo a large pizza and 2liter from pizza hut and just plug in a plex. That's just me though.
I'm sure there's someone out there in EvE who drops a couple freighters out in lowsec once every two months and sets up their mobile drug lab op to distill 8-12 billion isk like some internet space Walter White.
Pay to Win EvE. No. No no no no no no no. No. Hell no. NO! P2W was not a term coined as a business model. It is a derogatory term used to bash a publisher for "peeing on your shoes and telling you it's raining." It is literally the cancer that is rotting the MMO world. It is every bit as despicable as stripping content out of full priced games and selling it back to consumers as DLC.
That you could even suggest something so absurd as if it were legitimate confusticates and befuddles me. Go to your room and think about what you just said. |
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Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
46
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Posted - 2016.08.19 05:59:54 -
[11] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:That you could even suggest something so absurd as if it were legitimate confusticates and befuddles me. Go to your room and think about what you just said.
I think it's safe to say that EVE is a slow terminal decline and any/all ideas should be looked at...then again there are those that rather break their toys than have to share with others.
Hard locked F2P as I mentioned...one option.
Content isn't going to add much and might only slow or stop the decline temporarily. If a game is hard, making the learning phase "free" is a way to attract people and as long as the glass box they can play in is well designed to not f-up the paying customers then why not...
The alternative is grim...
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
171
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Posted - 2016.08.19 06:04:30 -
[12] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:I hope EvE never tries to go away from subscription model. It would mess the game up completely. It's a subject that has been discussed a lot, there is probably many forum threads about it in the past if one was curious to read them.
I also play Warframe and I think one should not compare it to EvE at all as they are very different. - Warframe is a FPS. Just that makes it very different from EvE. - Warframe isn't focused so much on large player groups fighting - Most all (all as far as I can think of, but perhaps I don't know some) of the weapons and game-effecting things can be earned in the game. Yes, one can buy them with in-game currency purchased with RL money if one wishes, but one can do the same in EvE also. I just think they are very different games and don't compare well for the most part.
As I Have said its just a thought and I was asking players input.
It Seems that allot of people agreed to stay with subbing and I do not have a problem with that anyway thanks
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2016.08.19 06:15:49 -
[13] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:That you could even suggest something so absurd as if it were legitimate confusticates and befuddles me. Go to your room and think about what you just said. I think it's safe to say that EVE is a slow terminal decline and any/all ideas should be looked at...then again there are those that rather break their toys than have to share with others. Hard locked F2P as I mentioned...one option. Content isn't going to add much and might only slow or stop the decline temporarily. If a game is hard, making the learning phase "free" is a way to attract people and as long as the glass box they can play in is well designed to not f-up the paying customers then why not... The alternative is grim...
I would say the problem is the way you "share" the game with others... |
Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
46
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Posted - 2016.08.19 06:19:10 -
[14] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I would say the problem is the way you "share" the game with others...
I share my void rounds freely...I'm a very giving person like that.
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
174
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Posted - 2016.08.19 06:19:39 -
[15] - Quote
F2P is never free because someway the developers have to earn money. Eve is concentrating on doing things for the player not inventing new methods to get pay for you 'free" game. |
Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
46
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Posted - 2016.08.19 06:25:05 -
[16] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Eve is concentrating on doing things for the player not inventing new methods to get pay for you 'free" game.
That sounds great but it doesn't change the (seemingly) fact that EVE needs new/more players. CCP doing something for current players doesn't really help get new players....
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
176
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Posted - 2016.08.19 08:09:33 -
[17] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Eve is concentrating on doing things for the player not inventing new methods to get pay for you 'free" game. That sounds great but it doesn't change the (seemingly) fact that EVE needs new/more players. CCP doing something for current players doesn't really help get new players.... You are right, but tweaking the payment system isn't a good idea. Could you name me a F2P that is still kicking after 5years let alone 13? CCP does need to lower the entrance difficulty for new players. A "New player Guide" would be good that would concentrate on the important things (how to fit a ship, how to progress fastest, making certificates more vocal) and working on the fitting window. That's not really much but it would help new players a lot. The main problem for me was to find out where to begin and which skills to learn and how to fit a ship. Eve has a bunch of Endgame opportunities but a lot of them are nothing for new players and there is no help to sort out one from the other. Other games have "the best class" and new players don't realize that this concept doesn't really exist in Eve. A Tycoon can be as important as a CEO or FC ( hi Lenny). |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
108
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Posted - 2016.08.19 08:26:43 -
[18] - Quote
Why would they go F2P? They already have the best of both worlds: a subscription system and a cash shop that allows you to progress your character. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
7088
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Posted - 2016.08.19 08:47:39 -
[19] - Quote
Game already has a free to play model built in via PLEX...you just have to work for it. |
May Arethusa
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
198
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Posted - 2016.08.19 08:50:18 -
[20] - Quote
No. Again.
The End. |
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Solecist Project
32209
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Posted - 2016.08.19 09:14:53 -
[21] - Quote
Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Gaius Clabbacus
Sister Beneficia's Home of Harmless Miners
15
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Posted - 2016.08.19 09:23:04 -
[22] - Quote
Thanks to skill extraction EVE is Free-to-Play without effort. If you put in some effort and PLEX your account you can play for free and have your skill points too. |
Solecist Project
32212
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Posted - 2016.08.19 10:52:11 -
[23] - Quote
Gaius Clabbacus wrote:Thanks to skill extraction EVE is Free-to-Play without effort Gaius Clabbacus wrote:If you put in some effort and PLEX your account you can play for free and have your skill points too. Gaius Clabbacus wrote:free-to-play without effort
Gaius Clabbacus wrote:if you put in some effort
PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1499
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Posted - 2016.08.19 11:04:41 -
[24] - Quote
45thtiger 0109 wrote:Hey EvE Players
A thought came to mind
Oh no it didn't.
45thtiger 0109 wrote:I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost.
Anyone who cannot afford the max rate of 50 cents a day has better things to do with their hours than fly pixel spaecships. Internet spaecships are a luxury, please don't try to modify them with your 'ideas'.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Memphis Baas
1921
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Posted - 2016.08.19 11:50:06 -
[25] - Quote
People ask for "free to play" thinking that they'll play for free.
But no business wants to give away free product. They only give away free samples if they think they'll get you to pay more later.
So if you take a little bit of time and look at other "free to play" MMO's, they are:
- heavily restricted to what you can do, to the point where it's impossible to play - paying to unlock individual features one by one costs about 5x MORE than what you get unlocked with a subscription
And if you look at "free to play" cell phone games, every developer tries to make those because:
- it takes less effort to create the crappy graphics that cell phones support - they make about 500x more money by tricking idiot parents, and kids, into paying $1 for every single module, load of ammo, or mining laser activation.
So "free to play" is a term very similar to the Goons' "Ministry of Love." |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1499
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Posted - 2016.08.19 12:15:11 -
[26] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote: So "free to play" is a term very similar to the Goons' "Ministry of Love."
That's from Orwell, who correctly predicted the tyrannical corporate control of language (and therefore thought) that would allow a government to poll citizens on their opinions about, let's say, state medical care, then when the results show that the overwhelming majority want it preserved and protected, the government of the day names it's program to dismantle the medical care "Preserve and Protect." That happened, Orwell comes second only to Huxley for seeing the heartless metal face of the future accurately.
But yeah, F2P EvE would not be EvE at all.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14444
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Posted - 2016.08.19 12:25:52 -
[27] - Quote
Free to play EVE doesn't work because there is nothing to "play". EVE isn't a game so much as it is a futuristic backdrop for personal interaction.
Having to pay for the experience gives the experience meaning (ALL f2p games are, by comparison, meaningless). Having to play the game to keep playing the game (PLEX) does this too (losing too many ratting/mission/mining ships in a month could equate to spending real life money for a sub or not being subbed at all). Losing something forever , like we do in EVE, stings more because we are paying in various ways to partake.
Just a general observation about the idea of making EVE f2p that pops up here all the time like paying 15 bucks for something is hard.
I've been playing EVE and visiting these forums for years, and the one thing that sticks out to me is how much EVE is like real life (probably because real life and EVE have something in common...both are overflowing with chimp descended primates...). In this case, it's liek real life in that it displays the human need to take something that works (EVE) and make it into something that doesn't work (most standard MMOs, many that are now F2P and most which 'sunset' in a fraction of the time EVE has existed) while somehow calling that "progress". |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
525
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Posted - 2016.08.19 12:44:12 -
[28] - Quote
No. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1920
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Posted - 2016.08.19 13:08:26 -
[29] - Quote
EVE is still working good with subs and has stable income. There is no rason to talk about such thing.
Akrasjel Lanate
Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8600
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Posted - 2016.08.19 13:26:38 -
[30] - Quote
poor_quality_bait.jpg
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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