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Should CCP Change Subscription To F2P Or P2W

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45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 171	Posted - 2016.08.19 04:32:32 - [1] - Quote Hey EvE Players A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win. I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription. 1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters. 2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK. 3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win. CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play. One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market. I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W. Thank You You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
Caco De'mon New Order Logistics CODE. 46	Posted - 2016.08.19 04:57:18 - [2] - Quote I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as: - T1's only - Up to frigates only - Only the basic industry ships - Only HS - Industrial restriction - only T1 mods - SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension - no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account - limit skill able to train and levels - etc - (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....) Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever). *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 171	Posted - 2016.08.19 04:59:14 - [3] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as: - T1's only - Up to frigates only - Only the basic industry ships - Only HS - Industrial restriction - only T1 mods - SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension - no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account - limit skill able to train and levels - etc - (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....) Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever). I agree with your Idea You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
Valkin Mordirc 2379	Posted - 2016.08.19 04:59:55 - [4] - Quote If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing. I don't play F2P MMO's for a reason. Microtransactions are a ******* addicting, horrific model, that I personally do not trust myself with. And if EVE goes to it, for my sake I'll have to quit. `#DeleteTheWeak`
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy 10473	Posted - 2016.08.19 04:59:55 - [5] - Quote This debate has been done and beaten to death. tldr; - F2P won't work due to the way the skill system works. Once you have a certain amount of skills (a small amount), you can earn as much ISK, affect the market, and influence warfare as much as you want. This means... -------- Infinite alts to earn ISK with -------- Inflation of pretty much everything -------- Alt shenanigans (infinite scouts, infinite cyno alts, infinite trade alts, infinite holder alts, etc) - P2W is equally bad. While the current system allows one to buy PLEX and sell for in-game ISK... the way the skills, modules, and ships are balanced means that people with lots of ISK will die in comedic ways due to lack of experience and knowledge. In short, having lots of money does not necessarily make you powerful. True P2W systems generally involve giving hard bonuses and benefits to those with lots of cash... which exist outside of the current balance of things. And the EVE community won't stand for that. Speaking purely for myself... either is a "game killer" for me as I want to have nothing to do with F2P or P2W games. My experience with both has been terrible content, obvious money grubbing, terrible support, toxic community (if you think anything on the forums is bad now then you obviously haven't been on a F2P game community forum), and unstable online numbers. How did you Veterans start? The Mustache and Beard Thread
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 776	Posted - 2016.08.19 05:00:28 - [6] - Quote As long as CCP don't remove the subscription model and free accounts don't accumulate any skillpoints (skill injectors would be needed to learn anything), I have no problem with the idea. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Viktor Amarr 53	Posted - 2016.08.19 05:23:50 - [7] - Quote People who keep advocating for this for personal reasons (generally disguised as a "hey, this would be great for the game") obviously don't understand the implications of such change. - the game would have to be made annoying and way more grindy in F2P mode so that people will be enticed to pay, but even when they do that the game (still being grindy) wil still suck. - free expansion updates as EVE has them? Gone, we'll have to pay for updates - Pay2Win and power creep will occur in order to keep us interested in buying the new FOTM stuff - CCP's focus will have to change from long term progress towards short term income generation - paywall keeps out the riffraff, check a game like World of Tanks where every match there's at least 1-2 afk on your side and people so ******** they're too stupid to poop. No thanks - CCP will (have to) accommodate for those people who are too stupid to poop, they are after all part of their customer base. Do you REALLY want CCP to cater for people like that, in EVE? Tell us, how is this all a good thing?
Vortexo VonBrenner Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning 2419	Posted - 2016.08.19 05:41:58 - [8] - Quote I hope EvE never tries to go away from subscription model. It would mess the game up completely. It's a subject that has been discussed a lot, there is probably many forum threads about it in the past if one was curious to read them. I also play Warframe and I think one should not compare it to EvE at all as they are very different. - Warframe is a FPS. Just that makes it very different from EvE. - Warframe isn't focused so much on large player groups fighting - Most all (all as far as I can think of, but perhaps I don't know some) of the weapons and game-effecting things can be earned in the game. Yes, one can buy them with in-game currency purchased with RL money if one wishes, but one can do the same in EvE also. I just think they are very different games and don't compare well for the most part. EvE security zones in pictures EvE quick reference pdf A wise man sums up EvE Smoke me a Kipper...
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 327	Posted - 2016.08.19 05:50:35 - [9] - Quote As seriously bad of an idea as this is, they're working on it. See: skill injectors. All they have to do is stop the skill queue for F2P and we can still grind out more skills. And it does require about $50 worth of training time (and some knowledge of game mechanics, so more for a newbie) to do this. A signature :o
Sitting Bull Lakota Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 122	Posted - 2016.08.19 05:52:04 - [10] - Quote I wouldn't want to see EvE go F2P, because I fear such a move would necessitate changing the skill system to require time investment. I like to think I could find a better purpose for my time than spend hours grinding skills... or isk, frankly. If I feel terribly strapped for isk, I'll forgo a large pizza and 2liter from pizza hut and just plug in a plex. That's just me though. I'm sure there's someone out there in EvE who drops a couple freighters out in lowsec once every two months and sets up their mobile drug lab op to distill 8-12 billion isk like some internet space Walter White. Pay to Win EvE. No. No no no no no no no. No. Hell no. NO! P2W was not a term coined as a business model. It is a derogatory term used to bash a publisher for "peeing on your shoes and telling you it's raining." It is literally the cancer that is rotting the MMO world. It is every bit as despicable as stripping content out of full priced games and selling it back to consumers as DLC. That you could even suggest something so absurd as if it were legitimate confusticates and befuddles me. Go to your room and think about what you just said.
Caco De'mon New Order Logistics CODE. 46	Posted - 2016.08.19 05:59:54 - [11] - Quote Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: That you could even suggest something so absurd as if it were legitimate confusticates and befuddles me. Go to your room and think about what you just said. I think it's safe to say that EVE is a slow terminal decline and any/all ideas should be looked at...then again there are those that rather break their toys than have to share with others. Hard locked F2P as I mentioned...one option. Content isn't going to add much and might only slow or stop the decline temporarily. If a game is hard, making the learning phase "free" is a way to attract people and as long as the glass box they can play in is well designed to not f-up the paying customers then why not... The alternative is grim... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 171	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:04:30 - [12] - Quote Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: I hope EvE never tries to go away from subscription model. It would mess the game up completely. It's a subject that has been discussed a lot, there is probably many forum threads about it in the past if one was curious to read them. I also play Warframe and I think one should not compare it to EvE at all as they are very different. - Warframe is a FPS. Just that makes it very different from EvE. - Warframe isn't focused so much on large player groups fighting - Most all (all as far as I can think of, but perhaps I don't know some) of the weapons and game-effecting things can be earned in the game. Yes, one can buy them with in-game currency purchased with RL money if one wishes, but one can do the same in EvE also. I just think they are very different games and don't compare well for the most part. As I Have said its just a thought and I was asking players input. It Seems that allot of people agreed to stay with subbing and I do not have a problem with that anyway thanks You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
Lucy Lollipops State War Academy Caldari State 103	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:15:49 - [13] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: That you could even suggest something so absurd as if it were legitimate confusticates and befuddles me. Go to your room and think about what you just said. I think it's safe to say that EVE is a slow terminal decline and any/all ideas should be looked at...then again there are those that rather break their toys than have to share with others. Hard locked F2P as I mentioned...one option. Content isn't going to add much and might only slow or stop the decline temporarily. If a game is hard, making the learning phase "free" is a way to attract people and as long as the glass box they can play in is well designed to not f-up the paying customers then why not... The alternative is grim... I would say the problem is the way you "share" the game with others...
Caco De'mon New Order Logistics CODE. 46	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:19:10 - [14] - Quote Lucy Lollipops wrote: I would say the problem is the way you "share" the game with others... I share my void rounds freely...I'm a very giving person like that. *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 174	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:19:39 - [15] - Quote F2P is never free because someway the developers have to earn money. Eve is concentrating on doing things for the player not inventing new methods to get pay for you 'free" game.
Caco De'mon New Order Logistics CODE. 46	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:25:05 - [16] - Quote Geronimo McVain wrote: Eve is concentrating on doing things for the player not inventing new methods to get pay for you 'free" game. That sounds great but it doesn't change the (seemingly) fact that EVE needs new/more players. CCP doing something for current players doesn't really help get new players.... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 176	Posted - 2016.08.19 08:09:33 - [17] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Geronimo McVain wrote: Eve is concentrating on doing things for the player not inventing new methods to get pay for you 'free" game. That sounds great but it doesn't change the (seemingly) fact that EVE needs new/more players. CCP doing something for current players doesn't really help get new players.... You are right, but tweaking the payment system isn't a good idea. Could you name me a F2P that is still kicking after 5years let alone 13? CCP does need to lower the entrance difficulty for new players. A "New player Guide" would be good that would concentrate on the important things (how to fit a ship, how to progress fastest, making certificates more vocal) and working on the fitting window. That's not really much but it would help new players a lot. The main problem for me was to find out where to begin and which skills to learn and how to fit a ship. Eve has a bunch of Endgame opportunities but a lot of them are nothing for new players and there is no help to sort out one from the other. Other games have "the best class" and new players don't realize that this concept doesn't really exist in Eve. A Tycoon can be as important as a CEO or FC ( hi Lenny).
Dibz Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 108	Posted - 2016.08.19 08:26:43 - [18] - Quote Why would they go F2P? They already have the best of both worlds: a subscription system and a cash shop that allows you to progress your character.
Yokai Mitsuhide Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 7088	Posted - 2016.08.19 08:47:39 - [19] - Quote Game already has a free to play model built in via PLEX...you just have to work for it.
May Arethusa The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 198	Posted - 2016.08.19 08:50:18 - [20] - Quote No. Again. The End.
Solecist Project 32209	Posted - 2016.08.19 09:14:53 - [21] - Quote Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Gaius Clabbacus Sister Beneficia's Home of Harmless Miners 15	Posted - 2016.08.19 09:23:04 - [22] - Quote Thanks to skill extraction EVE is Free-to-Play without effort. If you put in some effort and PLEX your account you can play for free and have your skill points too.
Solecist Project 32212	Posted - 2016.08.19 10:52:11 - [23] - Quote Gaius Clabbacus wrote: Thanks to skill extraction EVE is Free-to-Play without effort Gaius Clabbacus wrote: If you put in some effort and PLEX your account you can play for free and have your skill points too. Gaius Clabbacus wrote: free-to-play without effort Gaius Clabbacus wrote: if you put in some effort PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MIND! "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Chopper Rollins Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1499	Posted - 2016.08.19 11:04:41 - [24] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Hey EvE Players A thought came to mind Oh no it didn't. 45thtiger 0109 wrote: I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. Anyone who cannot afford the max rate of 50 cents a day has better things to do with their hours than fly pixel spaecships. Internet spaecships are a luxury, please don't try to modify them with your 'ideas'. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Memphis Baas 1921	Posted - 2016.08.19 11:50:06 - [25] - Quote People ask for "free to play" thinking that they'll play for free. But no business wants to give away free product. They only give away free samples if they think they'll get you to pay more later. So if you take a little bit of time and look at other "free to play" MMO's, they are: - heavily restricted to what you can do, to the point where it's impossible to play - paying to unlock individual features one by one costs about 5x MORE than what you get unlocked with a subscription And if you look at "free to play" cell phone games, every developer tries to make those because: - it takes less effort to create the crappy graphics that cell phones support - they make about 500x more money by tricking idiot parents, and kids, into paying $1 for every single module, load of ammo, or mining laser activation. So "free to play" is a term very similar to the Goons' "Ministry of Love."
Chopper Rollins Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1499	Posted - 2016.08.19 12:15:11 - [26] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: So "free to play" is a term very similar to the Goons' "Ministry of Love." That's from Orwell, who correctly predicted the tyrannical corporate control of language (and therefore thought) that would allow a government to poll citizens on their opinions about, let's say, state medical care, then when the results show that the overwhelming majority want it preserved and protected, the government of the day names it's program to dismantle the medical care "Preserve and Protect." That happened, Orwell comes second only to Huxley for seeing the heartless metal face of the future accurately. But yeah, F2P EvE would not be EvE at all. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14444	Posted - 2016.08.19 12:25:52 - [27] - Quote Free to play EVE doesn't work because there is nothing to "play". EVE isn't a game so much as it is a futuristic backdrop for personal interaction. Having to pay for the experience gives the experience meaning (ALL f2p games are, by comparison, meaningless). Having to play the game to keep playing the game (PLEX) does this too (losing too many ratting/mission/mining ships in a month could equate to spending real life money for a sub or not being subbed at all). Losing something forever , like we do in EVE, stings more because we are paying in various ways to partake. Just a general observation about the idea of making EVE f2p that pops up here all the time like paying 15 bucks for something is hard. I've been playing EVE and visiting these forums for years, and the one thing that sticks out to me is how much EVE is like real life (probably because real life and EVE have something in common...both are overflowing with chimp descended primates...). In this case, it's liek real life in that it displays the human need to take something that works (EVE) and make it into something that doesn't work (most standard MMOs, many that are now F2P and most which 'sunset' in a fraction of the time EVE has existed) while somehow calling that "progress".
Nicolai Serkanner Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 525	Posted - 2016.08.19 12:44:12 - [28] - Quote No.
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate 1920	Posted - 2016.08.19 13:08:26 - [29] - Quote EVE is still working good with subs and has stable income. There is no rason to talk about such thing. Akrasjel Lanate Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate Executor of Naquatech Syndicate Citizen of Solitude
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 8600	Posted - 2016.08.19 13:26:38 - [30] - Quote poor_quality_bait.jpg Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 469	Posted - 2016.08.19 13:30:12 - [31] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W. Thank You No and you're welcome.
Caco De'mon New Order Logistics CODE. 48	Posted - 2016.08.19 13:57:26 - [32] - Quote Now I'm not arguing for a pure F2P system and you can go back to the second post to see exactly what I'm suggesting... That being said, there are two other high view/responded threads on page one of the forums also addressing the player issue so it *could* be said that this is a bit of a pressing issue, maybe not a short-term issue but and issue nonetheless. EVE is a pretty well known game with a well established reputation. This will not change. CCP has also tried some big content changes but failed to bring in new (read increase) players. This will not change. The general industry shift has been away from subs to alternate pay systems. This will not change. Life-lesson everyone must learn to deal with: Things change....This will not change. I think it's pretty obvious that what worked for CCP 13 years ago re:sub and in the intern to a declining degree will not work forever and at some point they will enter the death spiral where content/support suffers due to laid-off staff which accelerates the loss of sub which forces more layoffs etc... The REAL question is "What can CCP to INCREASE the player count which will intern increase income?" F2P is a horrible option but a greatly hobbled F2P (IMO) is not. But what else can be done to address the core issue? I mean at the time of writing this there are 17200 people online and I'm guessing t hat's actually means about 6000 people are playing (1/3). This is an issue... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 82	Posted - 2016.08.19 13:59:27 - [33] - Quote F2P would be abused to all hell. People would make loads of alts to the point where you have to completely cripple the F2P players to the point where the game isn't fun for them, at which point they leave. If you seriously think EvE should be pay2win please give me all your stuff and just biomass. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Omar Alharazaad Nefarious Porpoise 3063	Posted - 2016.08.19 14:09:11 - [34] - Quote People already make loads of alts and PLEX the heck out of them as it is. People already use the excess ISK they earn to buy skill injectors and fast track alts into the roles of their choice. Hell, I occasionally see two week old marauder pilots out there nowadays. Some are alts of veteran players. Some are what I consider 'space veal'... yummy victims driving something too shiny and sophisticated for them to understand. Those are my favorites. It is only just. Screw the entitled, hard and long. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Algarion Getz Aideron Corp 195	Posted - 2016.08.19 14:15:34 - [35] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing. I don't play F2P MMO's for a reason. Microtransactions are a ******* addicting, horrific model, that I personally do not trust myself with. And if EVE goes to it, for my sake I'll have to quit. Apparel? SKINS? Skill injectors? Why are you still playing?
Omar Alharazaad Nefarious Porpoise 3064	Posted - 2016.08.19 15:00:48 - [36] - Quote Two of these things are not like the others. Skill injectors are actually turning out to be an engine for derps to come to the horrified realization that SKILLS do not equal 'skill'. The numbers on your character are not as important as what your player understands. CCP is creating a new generation of overpowered victims, and it's absolutely delicious... so long as they don't try to protect their sorry asses from the consequences of their own actions. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Elijah Sool Extended Operations 13	Posted - 2016.08.19 16:30:54 - [37] - Quote Posting in a stealth Eve is dying thread
Trevize Demerzel 14	Posted - 2016.08.19 17:57:42 - [38] - Quote Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: Game already has a free to play model built in via PLEX...you just have to work for it. This ^^ Only thing I would add is make the trial account last long enough such that it is feasible to start making enough ISK to buy PLEX. That way a motivated new player can start playing on trial and say in 90? 60? days buy a PLEX to sub their account. -
Tao Dolcino EVE University Ivy League 590	Posted - 2016.08.19 18:05:44 - [39] - Quote CCP does not need to change anything : EVE is already : - a subscription based game. - a free to play game : buy a PLEX with your ISK. - a pay to win game : buy PLEX with real money and sell it in game for ISK, which you can even turn after into skill injectors. CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
Caco De'mon New Order Logistics CODE. 49	Posted - 2016.08.19 18:14:46 - [40] - Quote Tao Dolcino wrote: CCP does not need to change anything So do the same will fix the issues.... I know change is scary but something will force CCP's hand one day if the trend continues... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 438	Posted - 2016.08.19 18:17:59 - [41] - Quote If f2p just meant your account has like trial-like restrictions placed on it, I say who cares. @lunettelulu7
Kei Nagasai X-COM Navy Fidelas Constans 20	Posted - 2016.08.19 20:16:05 - [42] - Quote How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount"
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 470	Posted - 2016.08.19 21:16:16 - [43] - Quote Kei Nagasai wrote: How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount" you mean like when i look at 15 euros and say meh it's only 15 euro.
Nicolai Serkanner Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 525	Posted - 2016.08.19 21:52:36 - [44] - Quote Kei Nagasai wrote: How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount" Your way of reasoning would mean, eventually, free to pay. So, no.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 291	Posted - 2016.08.20 02:07:10 - [45] - Quote You will find people here are against the F2P/P2W model including me. Honestly, if $15 a month is hard for you, then you dont need to be playing video games anyway you need to be focused on your financial situation.The sub model keeps out a lot of the riff raft and younger people. If you havent noticed a majority of the players in this game are old enough to drink and some are retired. It's not a game for kids. In F2P/P2W, which i have much experience playing, free players are always farms for those willing to swipe the credit card regularly. The devs in those games cut corners, leaving major gameplay affecting bugs in the game for months at a time sometimes never fixing them. Customer support is pretty close to non existent. Thats why i never complain about CCPs customer support because compared to those games, its like having my own concierge. FOTM is always changing and you have to constantly buy in paying 10x the amount you would pay fora month of eve or more just to stay competitive. The devs in those games focus on the next special item or upgrade you need to stay competitive. NO THANKS. I like Eve as a sub game and if it went to F2P, the chances of me quitting are extremely likely.
Princess Adhara University of Caille Gallente Federation 42	Posted - 2016.08.20 02:33:31 - [46] - Quote Subscription model: developers try to make an interesting game so people will subscribe. F2P model: developers try to make an annoying game so the company can sell ways around the annoyance.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7739	Posted - 2016.08.20 02:41:12 - [47] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. Let me stop you there. If the 'people you know' can't afford 50c a day, that is their problem, and their's alone. There is no business on the face of the planet that is responsible for catering to their failure to have 50c a day available in the first ******* world. If their poverty is such a problem that they can't afford EVE, then their poverty is such a problem that they have much bigger priorities in the first place. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jacques d'Orleans Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 2817	Posted - 2016.08.20 03:09:23 - [48] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: 45thtiger 0109 wrote: I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. Let me stop you there. If the 'people you know' can't afford 50c a day, that is their problem, and their's alone. There is no business on the face of the planet that is responsible for catering to their failure to have 50c a day available in the first ******* world. If their poverty is such a problem that they can't afford EVE, then their poverty is such a problem that they have much bigger priorities in the first place. Most possibly those "poor sods" are the same guys who then spend 8$ at Starbucks without even thinking about it. The beginning of the End Never drink anything that only gets a lukewarm recommendation from an Australian infantryman!
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 292	Posted - 2016.08.20 04:03:56 - [49] - Quote Princess Adhara wrote: Subscription model: developers try to make an interesting game so people will subscribe. F2P model: developers try to make an annoying game so the company can sell ways around the annoyance. that is one of the best comparisons i have seen between the two. In one f2p model ive played , i started playing a year ago because of all the hype and advertising about the game. So i started playing and the deals were $10 to $100 for a list of various items you NEEDED in game to progress. The $100 deals had speed ups up to 50 days, and a couple of dozen types of chests each type giving you several hundred chest. So you ended up with a couple of thousand chests total. The items in the chest were mostly worthless. You could turn them into better items, but you needed a lot of the same item to make it better. you had to open 1 chest at time which required 2 clicks per chest to open. You would also get about 250k of the special currency. I stopped playing after a month but still have it on my phone. So logging in now. For the same price you get 20 mil of the special currency. They have 2000 day speeds, which means they have skills and buildings that take stupid amounts of time to level. And you get about 250k chests. Now you can open these chests all at once, but you have to be a VIP. that requires leveling VIP by buying a stupid amount of VIP points AND then paying to make VIP active for x amount of time. So if you dont want to open 250k chest 1 at time then you are forced to buy even more stuff just to use the stuff you already have. In another game ive played its the same concept. They have major bugs in the game and it has a huge memory leak. Instead of fixing the game, they constantly develop new things for you to buy. Deals are constant and buying anything off deal is extortionately priced. The PVP system is majorly out of balance to the point were the only thing people do in that game is open chests and make power challenges. You can open 20 or 50 chest at a time but they have went from a few chest a couple of years ago to chests that spawn masses of chests that spawn masses of other chest. On average opening a spawner chest, i would get 22 more chests for every one i opened. There would be several levels of spawners some giving mix of prizes and more chests and some giving just more chests. Now people in that game have millions of chest and have been complaining for 6 months they need to be able to open more at a time because they just keep getting more and more and its taking forever to open them all. You have to keep buying new chests though to keep meeting the challenges. And the new items can only be found in those chests. That is what F2P is like. Ive played many and they are all pretty similar regardless of genre or device its played on. F2P games are throwaway games that take very little effort to make or manage. They milk them until they are no longer profitable then shut the servers down. and make one that is almost like it and start over. F2P games are nothing but ponzi schemes that are meant to annoy you to the point you pay for it to stop annoying you. You dont pay to be entertained, you pay to not be frustrated. i dont need to pay someone to stop frustrating me.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17891	Posted - 2016.08.20 04:35:46 - [50] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Hey EvE Players A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win. I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription. 1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters. 2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK. 3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win. CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play. One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market. I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W. Thank You I can't afford to play F2P games "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Solecist Project 32253	Posted - 2016.08.20 07:06:38 - [51] - Quote Roenok Baalnorn wrote: i dont need to pay someone to stop frustrating me. bro don't challenge me yo! "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Kenrailae The Scope Gallente Federation 572	Posted - 2016.08.20 07:37:42 - [52] - Quote F2P and P2W are both bad. That's not Eve. I'm amongst that number that would have a good hard think on whether I wanted to continue with this game if it went either way. I would be open to discussing some very restricted F2P concepts, as there is nothing harmed nor gained in simple discussion, but I would wager I would still end up being against them. I already am on the fence about how much time CCP spends on the Aurum store and not important things like T3 and T3D rebalance. The Law is a point of View The NPE IS a big deal
Elite Harvester Elite Harvesters 64	Posted - 2016.08.20 09:58:03 - [53] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. I would think those people have more pressing matters than a computer game to worry about such as eating and keeping a roof over their head if $15 USD a month is too expensive for 30 days of entertainment. Visit www.MinerBumping.com to find out how *you can help* save Highsec.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17961	Posted - 2016.08.20 10:19:20 - [54] - Quote Kei Nagasai wrote: How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount" -ú10 a month for unlimited access and free upgrades. Name another hobby that offers that.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17898	Posted - 2016.08.20 10:33:42 - [55] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Kei Nagasai wrote: How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount" -ú10 a month for unlimited access and free upgrades. Name another hobby that offers that. It's also worth noting that CCP, unlinke other subscription MMO publishers, don't charge for the client. Want to play WoW? Then you have to fork out for the game & expansions, and then pay a subscription. Expansions are free also. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Bruce Kemp Sex and Coke Party Negative Ten. 141	Posted - 2016.08.20 12:01:16 - [56] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as: - T1's only - Up to frigates only - Only the basic industry ships - Only HS - Industrial restriction - only T1 mods - SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension - no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account - limit skill able to train and levels - etc - (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....) Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever). I agree with your Idea Thumbs up from me too. -áIf people played EVE as much as they posted rubbish on these forums, they might enjoy the game.
TigerXtrm KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1579	Posted - 2016.08.20 12:12:52 - [57] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing. I don't play F2P MMO's for a reason. Microtransactions are a ******* addicting, horrific model, that I personally do not trust myself with. And if EVE goes to it, for my sake I'll have to quit. Then you better start looking for a different game to play, because EVE will go F2P at some point in some form. It has to or it will get left behind. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 476	Posted - 2016.08.20 12:33:53 - [58] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing. I don't play F2P MMO's for a reason. Microtransactions are a ******* addicting, horrific model, that I personally do not trust myself with. And if EVE goes to it, for my sake I'll have to quit. Then you better start looking for a different game to play, because EVE will go F2P at some point in some form. It has to or it will get left behind. being left behind in a race to the bottom isn't a bad thing
Max Fubarticus K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes 163	Posted - 2016.08.20 13:14:08 - [59] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Hey EvE Players A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win. I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription. 1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters. 2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK. 3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win. CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play. One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market. I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W. Thank You Not this again! Okay, here is some free advice... Nothing is free Max Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Kalpel KBM 134	Posted - 2016.08.20 13:30:27 - [60] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Hey EvE Players A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win. I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription. 1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters. 2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK. 3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win. CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play. One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market. I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W. Thank You I believe that if you cannot afford the cost of a subscription than internet gaming is the least of your problems! You failed to target nothing! GëívGëí online ... (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17905	Posted - 2016.08.20 15:51:14 - [61] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing. I don't play F2P MMO's for a reason. Microtransactions are a ******* addicting, horrific model, that I personally do not trust myself with. And if EVE goes to it, for my sake I'll have to quit. Then you better start looking for a different game to play, because EVE will go F2P at some point in some form. It has to or it will get left behind. People have been saying that for a long time. Why are you so keen for EVE to be moved to an openly abusive model? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 54	Posted - 2016.08.20 15:54:34 - [62] - Quote Kalpel wrote: I believe that if you cannot afford the cost of a subscription than internet gaming is the least of your problems! I agree with your statement and all the other variations mentioned in this thread... That being said, I think most of you are missing this point of WHY this is thread (and others) was created in the first place. Of course we need new PAYING players coming to EVE, the REAL reason is that attracting those people is what seems to be an issue. If you look at the trend of the last 5 years, the number of people playing is declining at a rate that may mean the death of EVE. From early 2013 to now, it appears half of the player-base have disappeared fro whatever reason(s) and if that trend continues, there can only be one outcome. So really, while F2P, P2W or some variation (my suggestion, other suggestions, etc) may seem unpalatable to you, is not having EVE just to avoid F2P pitfalls an option you'd actual rather? Seems to be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.... EDIT If you look at the trend, I'd guess that 2017 is the last year for EVE if nothing significant changes to increase (or stabilize subs). *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17905	Posted - 2016.08.20 16:00:07 - [63] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Kalpel wrote: I believe that if you cannot afford the cost of a subscription than internet gaming is the least of your problems! I agree with your statement and all the other variations mentioned in this thread... That being said, I think most of you are missing this point of WHY this is thread (and others) was created in the first place. Of course we need new PAYING players coming to EVE, the REAL reason is that attracting those people is what seems to be an issue. If you look at the trend of the last 5 years, the number of people playing is declining at a rate that may mean the death of EVE. From early 2013 to now, it appears half of the player-base have disappeared fro whatever reason(s) and if that trend continues, there can only be one outcome. So really, while F2P, P2W or some variation (my suggestion, other suggestions, etc) may seem unpalatable to you, is not having EVE just to avoid F2P pitfalls an option you'd actual rather? Seems to be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.... Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Soel Reit Dambusters 617 Sq 75	Posted - 2016.08.20 16:01:23 - [64] - Quote mmmm.... just put hot grills at streaming this game and it's gg! i mean we already have some... but no so hot - no offense no homo -
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 54	Posted - 2016.08.20 16:03:06 - [65] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument. I want EVE, not F2P/P2W, so you can stop that right there (I also PLEX so I don't give a poop personally). Also, the game IS on the wane and if you wont at least acknowledge that then you are in denial. *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17906	Posted - 2016.08.20 16:53:53 - [66] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument. I want EVE, not F2P/P2W, so you can stop that right there (I PLEX so I don't give a poop personally). Also, the game IS on the wane and if you wont at least acknowledge that then you are in denial. So you think that EVE should follow the roaring success of such games that transitioned to F2P, such as "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
lost packet Alpha Flight Almost Broken 97	Posted - 2016.08.20 17:11:35 - [67] - Quote May Arethusa wrote: No. Again. The End. This. Alpha Flight are recruiting pilots \| Almost Broken are recruiting corporations
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 54	Posted - 2016.08.20 19:30:45 - [68] - Quote Malcanis wrote: So you think that EVE should follow the roaring success of such games that transitioned to F2P, such as If you looked at my suggestion you would see that no, I don't think that. To counter your false dichotomy with the same; So you hate any change along the P2W/F2P path so much that you would rather EVE just die? *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Solecist Project 32270	Posted - 2016.08.20 20:34:45 - [69] - Quote Soel Reit wrote: mmmm.... just put hot grills at streaming this game and it's gg! i mean we already have some... but no so hot - no offense no homo - ... what? "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Solecist Project 32270	Posted - 2016.08.20 20:38:47 - [70] - Quote Ooooohhhh now I get it! "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Igrayne Barefist Pikey's House Renovation's 10	Posted - 2016.08.20 21:01:50 - [71] - Quote I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as: - T1's only - Up to frigates only - Only the basic industry ships - Only HS - Industrial restriction - only T1 mods - SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension - no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account - limit skill able to train and levels - etc - (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....) Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever). The key to getting and retaining new players is to show them just how massive and in-depth EVE really is...and it takes more than a free weekend of short trial account to do that. Great idea needs serious consideration by the Devs !
Alexia Creed Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.08.20 21:55:37 - [72] - Quote Eve is already both. If you plex your account you can pay to win. Then if you Earn enough ISK, you can pay to play for free. I know someone else has already paid for the plex, however to the player that bought it, the game is free to play.
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 55	Posted - 2016.08.20 22:26:46 - [73] - Quote Alexia Creed wrote: Eve is already both. If you plex your account you can pay to win. Then if you Earn enough ISK, you can pay to play for free. I know someone else has already paid for the plex, however to the player that bought it, the game is free to play. I think it's fair to say that the status quo isn't working....if it was working then this issue would be moot. 1. Get them to play 2. Give them a long time FREE to see the vastness and glory that is EVE. 3. Hope the sub 4. Show that eventually they will be able to F2P via PLEX 5. Profit Bottom line, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results every time is the definition of ~~miners~~ insanity. *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 338	Posted - 2016.08.20 22:51:51 - [74] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Malcanis wrote: So you think that EVE should follow the roaring success of such games that transitioned to F2P, such as If you looked at my suggestion you would see that no, I don't think that. To counter your false dichotomy with the same; So you hate any change along the P2W/F2P path so much that you would rather EVE just die? For a lot of us, a step in that direction would mean EVE was dead to us anyway. Some considered injectors to be that step. Some considered the NES itself. A signature :o
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 55	Posted - 2016.08.20 23:07:44 - [75] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Some considered injectors to be that step. Some considered the NES itself. Yet again... If there isn't change then EVE's days are numbers. If the status quo isn't working then you need change. Regardless how the purists feel, change is needed to (hopefully) fix the current trajectory and only poo-poo'ing anything that comes alone only contributes to said negative outcome. I'm realizing that there is a strong nihilist sentiment here among many... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Soel Reit Dambusters 617 Sq 82	Posted - 2016.08.21 00:34:16 - [76] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Ooooohhhh now I get it! took you 2 post to get it... instantlock tackler spotted
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7748	Posted - 2016.08.21 02:32:19 - [77] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Some considered injectors to be that step. Some considered the NES itself. Yet again... If there isn't change then EVE's days are numbers. If the status quo isn't working then you need change. Regardless how the purists feel, change is needed to (hopefully) fix the current trajectory and only poo-poo'ing anything that comes alone only contributes to said negative outcome. I'm realizing that there is a strong nihilist sentiment here among many... Throughout EVE's entire existence, lots of players have come and gone because EVE was just too damn hard for them. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the vast majority of people who tried the game. Yet, it's continued to grow for most of its existence. Now, you tell us that EVE needs to change to attract new players. What I want to know is, what sort of change are you suggesting? Does it fit with the nature of EVE? Because right now, it's not the people who find the game too hard who are leaving. It's the ones that stuck around for all those years, they're losing faith that EVE can grow and still be EVE. You say it needs new players to replace the ones that have left. First consider how few have actually left, most of the sub loss we've seen has been players shutting down alts. Now, with some of the changes that EVE has seen since 2013, consider who is actually leaving for EVE to be changing direction from the steady growth it saw up unti 2013. Why, it's the vets of course. So, if EVE was retaining its vets before, and still growing with new players.... but now suddenly it's declining and needs new players to survive? It didn't before. Something changed. Something in the game itself that drove players away. It was actually a few things, over time. So sure, tell us all again how EVE needs to change. Because they tried changing it. And it drove players away. Yes, EVE needs to change and adapt, as do all games. No, change for the sake of change or for the sake of drawing in other players outside of its niche audience is NOT a good thing. No one is saying, "don't change muh EVE". They're actually saying, "do it right". F2P is not right. It's not 'hip' or 'modern' or any of that. F2P is corporate abuse. If EVE goes F2P, you'll be replacing the passionate, guilish, mature audience with a bunch of mindless zombies who'll play anything just because it looks 'free'. News flash: nothing is free, and if you've fallen for the F2P model being a good thing, then I pity you, I genuinely do, and hope you will at least someday be able to see the forest through the trees. F2P is where games go to die. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 811	Posted - 2016.08.21 02:44:13 - [78] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: I think it's fair to say that the status quo isn't working....if it was working then this issue would be moot. It's not our role as players to make business decisions for CCP. Who cares what we think? CCP will do what it thinks is best for its future. All we can do is play the game, or if we aren't happy with it, not play and not pay. The navel gazing around what CCP should or shouldn't do is stupid. We have no power there. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 56	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:16:46 - [79] - Quote Quote: What I want to know is, what sort of change are you suggesting? Does it fit with the nature of EVE? Because right now, it's not the people who find the game too hard who are leaving. It's the ones that stuck around for all those years, they're losing faith that EVE can grow and still be EVE. Page 1, post 2. I'm not speaking about the old guard types that are leaving. Quote: You say it needs new players to replace the ones that have left. First consider how few have actually left, most of the sub loss we've seen has been players shutting down alts. Now, with some of the changes that EVE has seen since 2013, consider who is actually leaving for EVE to be changing direction from the steady growth it saw up unti 2013. Why, it's the vets of course. All businesses need NEW customers. A business that relies on subs that can be bypasses with in-game PLEX by those with enough time/experience desperately needs new customers as the old guard are not the ones paying the bills any more. Who is leaving is not what I'm addressing by my suggestions. Quote: So, if EVE was retaining its vets before, and still growing with new players.... but now suddenly it's declining and needs new players to survive? It didn't before.Something changed. Something in the game itself that drove players away. It was actually a few things, over time. So sure, tell us all again how EVE needs to change. Because they tried changing it. And it drove players away. Why the vets are leaving is beyond the scope of my suggestions. I did suggest how EVE could change to attract new customers. Quote: No, change for the sake of change or for the sake of drawing in other players outside of its niche audience is NOT a good thing. No one is saying, "don't change muh EVE". They're actually saying, "do it right". This isn't an out of the blue "hey everything is fine but let's upset the apple-cart because YOLO!" but rather an honest attempt at dialogue in an option that IMO has the best chance of doing something. Quote: F2P is where games go to die. I'm not suggesting a pure F2P game so...I did say this earlier "*F2P is a horrible option but a greatly hobbled F2P (IMO) is not." but I'm guessing you didn't' read that either. "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 56	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:22:13 - [80] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: I think it's fair to say that the status quo isn't working....if it was working then this issue would be moot. It's not our role as players to make business decisions for CCP. Who cares what we think? CCP will do what it thinks is best for its future. All we can do is play the game, or if we aren't happy with it, not play and not pay. The navel gazing around what CCP should or shouldn't do is stupid. We have no power there. We're not making business decisions for CCP, we're talking. You're in a forum where people exchange ideas...people care. If you didn't then you wouldn't have posted. Nobody forced you here to read/post. No, we can also interact outside the game...here for example and other places. If talking about thing CCP things here is "stupid", then complaining about people talking about CCP things must be utterly moronic. Also, why do you keep posting in this thread if you loath it so so much? *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 56	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:37:58 - [81] - Quote Out of curiosity, how would you attract new players? You're dead-set against F2P/P2W so, what are your suggestions? *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 339	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:42:48 - [82] - Quote They could make an F2P/P2W shard and call it Augeus. And that would be a seriously stupid idea, because eventually TQ would bleed over there and become a ghost town thanks to the lure of "free." A signature :o
Infinity Ziona Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2421	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:54:33 - [83] - Quote Its already F2P (grinding plex) and P2W (buying plex and characters) CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Solecist Project 32282	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:58:04 - [84] - Quote Time is not free ... ... unless your life is worth nothing. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Vortexo VonBrenner Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning 2426	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:58:46 - [85] - Quote If you're grinding for PLEX you have turned EvE into a job, and are therefor doing it wrong. EvE security zones in pictures EvE quick reference pdf A wise man sums up EvE Smoke me a Kipper...
Infinity Ziona Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2421	Posted - 2016.08.21 06:12:00 - [86] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Time is not free ... ... unless your life is worth nothing. Its a game, if you can't find something you like doing for fun to make isk then you shouldn't be playing it. The majority likely play this game for fun and given a plex is only 1 billion per month its a minuscule amount of time. I have 8 accounts all funded by skill extractors and injectors. No grinding at all and I make 386 mill from each character as a bonus so 3 billion per month for pvp. Its free to play. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17910	Posted - 2016.08.21 08:41:07 - [87] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Malcanis wrote: So you think that EVE should follow the roaring success of such games that transitioned to F2P, such as If you looked at my suggestion you would see that no, I don't think that. To counter your false dichotomy with the same; So you hate any change along the P2W/F2P path so much that you would rather EVE just die? You're trying to frame the situation as a choice between EVE going F2P or dying. I'm questioning the validity of that dichotomy by requesting you to give an example of this ever working. To use an analogy: Supposing I said "Unless you let me sleep with your sister, EVE will continue dying. If you don't let me bang your sis, then it means that you'd rather EVE would just die." If you were reluctant for your own reasons to see my overweight, hairy carcass superimposed on that of your favorite female relative, you might well be inclined to ask how, exactly, it would help EVE to do so. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Elinarien Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2016.08.21 09:47:07 - [88] - Quote Eve is already F2P via Plex. Eve already allows people to trade real currency for in-game goods via Plex. Hence not really sure what the OP is on about.
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 812	Posted - 2016.08.21 10:05:08 - [89] - Quote Elinarien wrote: Eve is already F2P via Plex. Eve already allows people to trade real currency for in-game goods via Plex. Hence not really sure what the OP is on about. That only works if you believe time grinding has no value. That's the transaction. One person pays money and a second person pays in time. It's not free, as ISK doesn't jump materialise without effort. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7748	Posted - 2016.08.21 10:22:37 - [90] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard Out of curiosity, how would you attract new players? You're dead-set against F2P/P2W so, what are your suggestions? The game was already doing it. It was experiencing growth until ~2013, or somepoint thereabouts. And it was retaining the old ones at the same time. Why do I have to repeat myself like this? Try reading what I said. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7748	Posted - 2016.08.21 10:26:20 - [91] - Quote Elinarien wrote: Eve is already F2P via Plex. Eve already allows people to trade real currency for in-game goods via Plex. Hence not really sure what the OP is on about. At the end of the day, CCP still makes money off every subscription, and they actually make more from PLEX'd accounts than they do subs. Also, none of the goods in-game that people 'pay real money' for are generated out of thin air, except for cosmetics in the cash shop, whatever that's being called these days. Nothing is free, and has to be worked for and/or built in-game before it can be acquired for ANY amount of money, which requires people to sub to play the game to build it. The game is f2p for people that use PLEX as much as a pizza is free because someone else bought it for you. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 56	Posted - 2016.08.21 16:01:28 - [92] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard Out of curiosity, how would you attract new players? You're dead-set against F2P/P2W so, what are your suggestions? The game was already doing it. It was experiencing growth until ~2013, or somepoint thereabouts. And it was retaining the old ones at the same time. Why do I have to repeat myself like this? Try reading what I said. Since 2013, players have dropped almost in half...pining for the past doesn't do anything for today and the future. Yet again as you seem to not like to read, what would you do NOW to attract NEW players? If you can't answer that question how about just moving on as you point about the glory day has been made... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 56	Posted - 2016.08.21 16:15:11 - [93] - Quote Malcanis wrote: You're trying to frame the situation as a choice between EVE going F2P or dying. I'm questioning the validity of that dichotomy by requesting you to give an example of this ever working. No, I'm saying that a pseudo-F2P could help bring in and retain new players. EVE numbers are dropping somewhat quickly, that's a fact, and with NO change, this will become terminal at some point. Something has to be done; that's my suggestion. Will it fix the problem completely? No but I think it will help. That's being counted but doom-and-gloom types that are ready to hang themselves in protest is CCP even thinks about F2P or the "Remember 2013, that as great." pining types that somehow think going back 3 years would solve the problems...it wont. Doing nothing or just slow content changes will not help the situation... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Solecist Project 32295	Posted - 2016.08.21 17:17:08 - [94] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Malcanis wrote: You're trying to frame the situation as a choice between EVE going F2P or dying. I'm questioning the validity of that dichotomy by requesting you to give an example of this ever working. No, I'm saying that a pseudo-F2P could help bring in and retain new players. EVE numbers are dropping somewhat quickly, that's a fact, and with NO change, this will become terminal at some point. Something has to be done; that's my suggestion. Will it fix the problem completely? No but I think it will help. That's being counted but doom-and-gloom types that are ready to hang themselves in protest is CCP even thinks about F2P or the "Remember 2013, that as great." pining types that somehow think going back 3 years would solve the problems...it wont. Doing nothing or just slow content changes will not help the situation... Okay now hold on a second ... Caco De'mon wrote: Since 2013, players have dropped almost in half...pining for the past doesn't do anything for today and the future. Getting them back would be a wise decision, because these were a lot of former long time players we've lost back then. And throughout the years. We even lost Tippia. And where's Mag's? Quote: No, I'm saying that a pseudo-F2P could help bring in and retain new players. Yes. And I will now tell you why that is a bad idea. The first thing are the forums. Either they're completely being locked out ... ... or moderation has to go overtime. The amount of zilch the word "free" attracts, combined with the outlook of "being someone important", is attractive for those who feel like they are someone important and then play as if they were. The primary whale is an insecure male with self esteem issues who will happily throw his money away for imaginary status in an online video game played by thousands. Just to feel better about himself. We all do that to varying degrees of course, some more than others. He suffers from delusions of grandeur, would make dunning and kruger proud and only does "fair" PvP, because - and this is great - when you rip him out of his controlled bubble, you break apart his self image. The situation then turns into something you would expect from a psychopath who's being told he has to change himself or the relationship breaks apart ...... and you really don't do that, he'll kill you or plot something against you to ruin your life. Unless you don't know them, of course, then they would just make their mothers sad in forum posts and mails. Of course there's lots of shades of this extreme example of the whale and we have some of them in EVE as well. There's extreme examples you can find on minerbumping.com, but there's also people who overvalue their killboards. There's those who fly expensive officer marauders. A 20-boxer. All different shades of pretty much the same thing, with varying positive and negative effects for everyone else: The degree of "escapism" varies. It sounds like I'm mostly talking about carebears here ... but it's not that simple.* After this cluster-**** starts ... ... you will see a lot more of these shades ... ... and you will regret it. I'll save you a description of long term consequences and just hope you drop this ... ... or, even better, think it through more thoroughly! There are things you don't know you need to consider. So many characters left to fill the post with ... sheesh .... *("Escapism" is not about what you spend your time with. It does not matter what you do ... ... but how you do it. They want to dive into a universe, with a story and "feel immersed" so they forget the real world and can be their character. Please note that actual role-players don't behave like this. There's usually a clear seperation between the player and the character. Role-playing isn't escapism.) "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Caleb Seremshur Black Scorpions Inc Infensus 837	Posted - 2016.08.21 17:28:19 - [95] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Hey EvE Players A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win. I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription. 1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters. 2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK. 3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win. CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play. One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market. I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W. Thank You People can't AFFORD $15? I choose not to spend it, as a matter of principle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rxOKEsBx4NU#t=1399 This might explain some of the problem. The collapsing middle class? Yeah.
Elinarien Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2016.08.21 18:34:02 - [96] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Elinarien wrote: Eve is already F2P via Plex. Eve already allows people to trade real currency for in-game goods via Plex. Hence not really sure what the OP is on about. That only works if you believe time grinding has no value. That's the transaction. One person pays money and a second person pays in time. It's not free, as ISK doesn't jump materialise without effort. But the entire F2P premise is that it trades player time for access to game content. So anyone wanting to play a F2P MMO accepts that trade off. Which is exactly what Plex is.
Solecist Project 32296	Posted - 2016.08.21 18:43:02 - [97] - Quote Elinarien wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Elinarien wrote: Eve is already F2P via Plex. Eve already allows people to trade real currency for in-game goods via Plex. Hence not really sure what the OP is on about. That only works if you believe time grinding has no value. That's the transaction. One person pays money and a second person pays in time. It's not free, as ISK doesn't jump materialise without effort. But the entire F2P premise is that it trades player time for access to game content. So anyone wanting to play a F2P MMO accepts that trade off. Which is exactly what Plex is. Yes, that is absolutely correct. Changes nothing about the minerals you're mining not being free at all. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 56	Posted - 2016.08.21 19:14:38 - [98] - Quote Elinarien wrote: But the entire F2P premise is that it trades player time for access to game content. So anyone wanting to play a F2P MMO accepts that trade off. Which is exactly what Plex is. F2P mean that there is content that players can play for free from day one of their account to day X. There is usually additional content that one can access if one is willing to pay for it. PLEX is not free as you need time to learn how to get to the point that you're earning enough ISK doing XYZ. Once you do get to that point you could argue that EVE then becomes F2P but even then you still must interact with the client/account-manager to keep things active and/or not have your CC charged. By no stretch of the imagination is EVE currently F2P for new players and even established players still must do something to maintain their own "free" status. *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Thomas Lot Astrocomical Warped Intentions 36	Posted - 2016.08.21 20:37:08 - [99] - Quote In answer to the posed question... No. Now would someone please lock this thing.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7750	Posted - 2016.08.21 21:53:48 - [100] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard Out of curiosity, how would you attract new players? You're dead-set against F2P/P2W so, what are your suggestions? The game was already doing it. It was experiencing growth until ~2013, or somepoint thereabouts. And it was retaining the old ones at the same time. Why do I have to repeat myself like this? Try reading what I said. Since 2013, players have dropped almost in half...pining for the past doesn't do anything for today and the future. Yet again as you seem to not like to read, what would you do NOW to attract NEW players? If you can't answer that question how about just moving on as you point about the glory day has been made... I love reading. I have a room in my house devoted to bookshelves, almost like a tiny library. But if you want to go there, then I'm going to call projection, because it's not like I haven't made it clear that retaining existing players is more important than getting new ones. When you focus on the existing ones, the new ones come all by themselves, as is what we saw in the past. F2P doesn't attract new players, not the kind that stick around, and it scares off a lot of people who can still take this game seriously. Now, before you reply with another, "but what do?", I don't need to do anything except play EVE, or something else, and I guarantee you if it goes 'f2p' I'll be playing something else. F2P is a demonstrably abusive model that ends up costing more than a sub in the long run anyway. Once again, if people struggle to pay what equates to 50c a day, then they have bigger priorities in their life anyway. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Solecist Project 32305	Posted - 2016.08.21 22:18:18 - [101] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: I have a room in my house devoted to bookshelves I enjoyed that image. Bookshelves! Bookshelves everywhere! "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 57	Posted - 2016.08.22 00:43:40 - [102] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: ...it's not like I haven't made it clear that retaining existing players is more important than getting new ones. When you focus on the existing ones, the new ones come all by themselves, as is what we saw in the past. F2P doesn't attract new players, not the kind that stick around, and it scares off a lot of people who can still take this game seriously. This works early and in the middle of a product's life-cycle but near the end there is absolutely no point in spending most of your resources trying to retain those that would already be staying. If CCP did something starting in 2013 that initiated the slow exodus not only does CCP have to "fix" whatever they broke in the eyes of those that left, they also need to make it attractive to those people to come back; people that most likely still have billions of ISK in inactive accounts. Yes some will pay but you are focusing on the groups of people that already know how to NOT have to sub. How does that help CCP's bottom line? Quote: if it goes 'f2p' I'll be playing something else. F2P is a demonstrably abusive model that ends up costing more than a sub in the long run anyway. Yes F2P can be abusive but it also can be fine. The only experiences I have in F2P are DOTA, War Thunder and Wot. Never spent a dime on the first two but probably spent about $75 on WoT over apx 9000 battles. It worked for me. ANY system can be abused and any system can fail. Going to one or the other extreme is what I am against and support a hybrid F2P because clearly, something is failing for EVE. You're picking the status quo that doesn't seem to be working too well since 2013-ish and refuse to even entertain the idea that change might be needed nor actually offer any ideas other than "let's get the old-timers back". The very ones that probably made an ultimatum like; "If you do X then I quit!" Quote: Once again, if people struggle to pay what equates to 50c a day, then they have bigger priorities in their life anyway. Never once did I make this argument. *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Exandor Enthrapas Concelium Septum Cede Nullis 0	Posted - 2016.08.22 04:48:42 - [103] - Quote When World of Warcraft first came up with charging you monthly to be able to play on I decided instantly to not ever do this this, because it felt ridiculous to me to pay for a game like for my rent or the energy in my home, becuase any game is just such not a fundamentally indispensible and essential thing like real life a home or energy and warm water. I didn't ever play only one of the upcoming MMO's that followed WoW for that reason until 2016, but the more time passed the more games were only available that way going really ridiculous about thing worth merely a view, like CS:GO weapon skins sold for 80$ or TF2 backpacks sold for 2000$... This habit went really annoying, with games releasing "Downloadable Content" / DLC... some mere add-ons with sometimes just some visual skins in like full-blown titles.... In the end I was bent to be doing this by all the major game series applying this scheme like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Counter Strike etc so I sometimes started doing it too... But that is the No.1 reason I stop playing games, because sometimes I'm just not playing a game for several months and dont want to pay for it every months while not even using it ... As to the ridiculous ammounts it's the same.. I could probably spemnd 10000$ USD only on EVE to unlock all of the games features to me and having a decent set of ships ready .... I liked the option in EVE that allows you to earn the ISK ingame, though it's a factor heavily abused by scammer and the general market, putting you under pressure with extreme values on items like PLEX, Skill Injectors etc... It was the point why I was was trying out EVE and bought several PLEX with rl cash to proceed quicker... still earning the ISK ingame is really really hard to me...
45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 171	Posted - 2016.08.22 16:43:47 - [104] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: Kalpel wrote: I believe that if you cannot afford the cost of a subscription than internet gaming is the least of your problems! I agree with your statement and all the other variations mentioned in this thread... That being said, I think most of you are missing this point of WHY this is thread (and others) was created in the first place. Of course we need new PAYING players coming to EVE, the REAL reason is that attracting those people is what seems to be an issue. If you look at the trend of the last 5 years, the number of people playing is declining at a rate that may mean the death of EVE. From early 2013 to now, it appears half of the player-base have disappeared fro whatever reason(s) and if that trend continues, there can only be one outcome. So really, while F2P, P2W or some variation (my suggestion, other suggestions, etc) may seem unpalatable to you, is not having EVE just to avoid F2P pitfalls an option you'd actual rather? Seems to be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.... Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument. Well I have also seen the numbers decline from 30k+ to 20+ on some days and I have seen the numbers decline as low as 12+K so what is CCP doing wrong can someone answer that question ? That is why may by its time for CCP to change its system to get more people into this game. That is why I have thought that either F2P and P2W would be a better way for that. And what allot of you should know is FREE TO PLAY means you can play the game for free but if you want to get better ingame items you are paying for that privilege. PAY TO WIN has been tried in EvE quite a number of years back but allot of people were against it when CCP was going to introduce gold ammo for AURUM. But the people spoke by going out to Burn Jita and CCP had to get rid of it. It is a concern for all of the EvE players and it does not matter if you are friend or foe but to keep in mind that this a Great Game which I have played for nearly 10 Years and I still have a heart for EvE. Thank You All You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 171	Posted - 2016.08.22 16:49:07 - [105] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Kei Nagasai wrote: How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount" you mean like when i look at 15 euros and say meh it's only 15 euro. But allot of poor people in the world who cannot afford the subs. You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7758	Posted - 2016.08.22 17:28:20 - [106] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Kei Nagasai wrote: How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount" you mean like when i look at 15 euros and say meh it's only 15 euro. But allot of poor people in the world who cannot afford the subs. If they're so poor they can't afford 50c a day, then they have bigger problems than online gaming. This 'people are too poor' nonsense is not an argument. I'm too poor to buy a Ferrari but you don't see me demanding one for free, do you? People need to stop this completely ridiculous bullshit where everyone has to cater to their misfortune. We don't, CCP don't, no one does. Being too poor to afford something means you can't have it, not that whoever made that something needs to hand it to you just because "boo hoo, I have no money". GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7760	Posted - 2016.08.22 17:36:22 - [107] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: And what allot of you should know is FREE TO PLAY means you can play the game for free but if you want to get better ingame items you are paying for that privilege. All the things EVE is not. EVE's economy is player-driven. Everything in the game is made (or looted) by players. You don't just magic stuff into the game because someone paid for it, it doesn't work. That would break EVE at its most core mechanic. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Solecist Project 32325	Posted - 2016.08.22 17:37:04 - [108] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Kei Nagasai wrote: How about just cutting the cost of the subscription? at the moment its -ú10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts. I'd say cut it down to -ú6 or -ú7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount" you mean like when i look at 15 euros and say meh it's only 15 euro. But allot of poor people in the world who cannot afford the subs. Yeah, so they are. So what? Where's the argument? Ever considered that there's reasons why they're poor? Not everyone who is poor is poor because his life is ** ... ... and those who have a **** life have completely different priorities than playing EVE ONLINE. Making the game cheaper won't attract any quality players ... ... it will only attract those who are poor by choice. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.08.22 17:45:37 - [109] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it. I laughed when you indirectly referred to yourself as a quality player.....
Solecist Project 32325	Posted - 2016.08.22 17:52:56 - [110] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it. I laughed when you indirectly referred to yourself as a quality player..... I'm sure someone who figured out a name like yours ... ... and feels the need to post something like this ... ... is of much higher quality and much wiser than my worthless little self. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7760	Posted - 2016.08.22 17:59:04 - [111] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it. I laughed when you indirectly referred to yourself as a quality player..... And I laughed when you took the first opportunity to hurl a personal attack. Sol is right, this game doesn't need more players. It needs the right kind of players. Those would be the kind of people who adapt to the game, rather than demand the game adapt to them. Also, people who can afford it, obviously, which is pretty much anyone with a job, and even a fair few without one, since it's really not that expensive. I still remember when MMO or MUD subscriptions were handled by ISPs rather than the game's developer, because the ISP would have the servers. $100 or more for a few hours of text-based wonder and excitement. People today don't realise how very ******* easy you have it, and they still think they're entitled to more for less. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14457	Posted - 2016.08.22 18:14:43 - [112] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: People today don't realise how very ***** easy you have it, and they still think they're entitled to more for less. I call that the trap of progress (progress in this case meaning as time has gone on, things have gotten cheaper and easier for people, which denies people a sense of 'context' when it comes to value).. When i was 9 years old (1983...where has the time gone) my parents decided (after some begging on my part) to let me go to the arcade at the mall down the street from our house by myself. Most games were a quarter and that was real money to me then, I made 10 bucks cutting a whole a yard front and back, but the ones that let you sit down were usually 50 cents. Star Wars was one of them.. I'd maybe get a whole 3 minutes of play for 50 cents before I'd invariably crash into a damn wall lol. The force was weak with my 9 year old butt. Fast forward 33 years and 50 cents gets me 1410 minutes of game time** in EVE Online yet someone EVE is so terribly expensive people are having problems paying for it.. Maybe that's part of the problem when people talk about how 'expensive' EVE is, lack of context for younger people maybe?
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7760	Posted - 2016.08.22 18:29:58 - [113] - Quote No, it's just entitlement. The whole world is getting outraged right now because people won't give them free stuff and cave to their demands, and it's not just in gaming. Now don't get me wrong, if someone is in genuine trouble and their circumstances have become a barrier to basic survival, I think we should help. We don't owe them, but we should help. But video games are not a ***** component of basic survival. I spent a good year of my life homeless and worked my ***** arse off with neigh a handout to speak of to get myself off the street, into university and a half-decent communications degree, and into a half-decent freelance journalism gig. And then I see people whining about video games being too expensive, and I really just wanna shove a foot in their backside, boot and all. Reality check kids: the world, and life, does not part like the red sea to let you through. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 18:58:16 - [114] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: No, it's just entitlement. The whole world is getting outraged right now because people won't give them free stuff and cave to their demands, and it's not just in gaming. Now don't get me wrong, if someone is in genuine trouble and their circumstances have become a barrier to basic survival, I think we should help. We don't owe them, but we should help. But video games are not a ***** component of basic survival. I spent a good year of my life homeless and worked my ***** arse off with neigh a handout to speak of to get myself off the street, into university and a half-decent communications degree, and into a half-decent freelance journalism gig. And then I see people whining about video games being too expensive, and I really just wanna shove a foot in their backside, boot and all. Reality check kids: the world, and life, does not part like the red sea to let you through. You guys seem to be confusing "entitlement" with industry standard. The industry standard, has changed since the 80's. Just because it was more expensive to play a game back then, doesn't mean that prices should remain that way. With that same logic, all personal computers should still be in the tens of thousands. When I say tens of thousands I mean plural, because they really were that expensive. I'm sorry that you nerds used to walk in the snow both says after shoveling someone's carport to earn your right to play an arcade game, but just because you did, and other people didn't, doesn't mean they are entitled. In fact it feels like you are the one entitled here, since you want everyone else to feel what your misery once was.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14458	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:00:26 - [115] - Quote http://philterdesign.com/?p=609
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:09:10 - [116] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it. I laughed when you indirectly referred to yourself as a quality player..... And I laughed when you took the first opportunity to hurl a personal attack. Sol is right, this game doesn't need more players. It needs the right kind of players. Those would be the kind of people who adapt to the game, rather than demand the game adapt to them. Also, people who can afford it, obviously, which is pretty much anyone with a job, and even a fair few without one, since it's really not that expensive. I still remember when MMO or MUD subscriptions were handled by ISPs rather than the game's developer, because the ISP would have the servers. $100 or more for a few hours of text-based wonder and excitement. People today don't realise how very ******* easy you have it, and they still think they're entitled to more for less. Well you see that was a direct attack on the op when he was referring to "quality players." He was indirectly calling the op as a non-quality player, along with all those who prefer any other game model than subscription based. So I guess if anyone who has any other opinion than what you guys have are either "entitled", or non-quality people. I really would like to see who the "right" kind of players are in your opinion, Hitler. Maybe we can have a non-quality player cleansing.
Pandora Carrollon Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic. 578	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:12:50 - [117] - Quote Just so you guys know, you can farm gold in WoW and play for 'free' in the same way EVE does Plex. Who knows, Blizzard might have stole that one from EVE but maybe they both got if from someplace else. In any event, to answer the questions posed in the thread title: No and No. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:26:04 - [118] - Quote If you ask me, I agree that we not go F2P or P2W. However I do feel like the pricing is too expensive for what you get. I personally feel like the pricing should go similar to this: $10 a month for a regular account. $15 a month to have two characters from one account in game at the same time. $20 two characters that can skill train, AND be in game at the same time. This might affect skill injectors to some degree, but you will still have that 3rd character on your account that cannot train skills if two are currently training in something. If you think about it anyway the cost per month is similar to this anyways, that is if you buy your subscription time in bulk.
Pandora Carrollon Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic. 579	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:28:57 - [119] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: If you ask me, I agree that we not go F2P or P2W. However I do feel like the pricing is too expensive for what you get. I personally feel like the pricing should go similar to this: $10 a month for a regular account. $15 a month to have two characters from one account in game at the same time. $20 two characters that can skill train, AND be in game at the same time. This might affect skill injectors to some degree, but you will still have that 3rd character on your account that cannot train skills if two are currently training in something. If you think about it anyway the cost per month is similar to this anyways, that is if you buy your subscription time in bulk. You can subscribe for a year at about $10-$11 US a month if you pay up front. Subscribe Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:37:16 - [120] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: If you ask me, I agree that we not go F2P or P2W. However I do feel like the pricing is too expensive for what you get. I personally feel like the pricing should go similar to this: $10 a month for a regular account. $15 a month to have two characters from one account in game at the same time. $20 two characters that can skill train, AND be in game at the same time. This might affect skill injectors to some degree, but you will still have that 3rd character on your account that cannot train skills if two are currently training in something. If you think about it anyway the cost per month is similar to this anyways, that is if you buy your subscription time in bulk. You can subscribe for a year at about $10-$11 US a month if you pay up front. Subscribe I know, but I still would like to have just one account to do what I need, versus two. :P
Solecist Project 32327	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:40:12 - [121] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Well you see that was a direct attack on the op when he was referring to "quality players." He was indirectly calling the op as a non-quality player, along with all those who prefer any other game model than subscription based. No, I didn't. And I think calling it an "attack" is an overstatement. Try reading it again, this time without implementing new context. Everything I stated was true, none of it hinted at subscriptions being superior. Nowhere did I mention amounts of people and of course it was implied, that ... ... not every single person who plays a free game is an idiot ... ... but free games attract idiots on purpose. I wrote a post about this somewhere else ....... it was long ..... well, they all are lol ....... You can not deny the fact that free games attract **** people and that there is nothing that keeps them out. There is a shiitton amount of people out there who cover everything between "dumb" and "insecure genius" ... ... and they fall for games that promise them escapism, aka ... ... being "the hero" in a fictional reality where "his" life isn't . And as you probably know, the "dumb" part is a significant chunk of these people. We have these in EVE as well, of course ... and the number seems only to be growing. Reminds me of how every strong, healthy community eventually decays once it grows past a certain threshold. I'm not going to go deeper into this, I've written it down somewhere around the forums already. :p Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:** So I guess if anyone who has any other opinion than what you guys have are either "entitled", or non-quality people. I really would like to see who the "right" kind of players are in your opinion, Hitler. Maybe we can have a non-quality player cleansing You're probably one of those who lives in the delusional world of "we're all equal". Also: Godwin's Law. Congratulations! "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 19:53:48 - [122] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Well you see that was a direct attack on the op when he was referring to "quality players." He was indirectly calling the op as a non-quality player, along with all those who prefer any other game model than subscription based. No, I didn't. And I think calling it an "attack" is an overstatement. Try reading it again, this time without implementing new context. Everything I stated was true, none of it hinted at subscriptions being superior. Nowhere did I mention amounts of people and of course it was implied, that ... ... not every single person who plays a free game is an idiot ... ... but free games attract idiots on purpose. I wrote a post about this somewhere else ....... it was long ..... well, they all are lol ....... You can not deny the fact that free games attract **** people and that there is nothing that keeps them out. There is a shiitton amount of people out there who cover everything between "dumb" and "insecure genius" ... ... and they fall for games that promise them escapism, aka ... ... being "the hero" in a fictional reality where "his" life isn't . And as you probably know, the "dumb" part is a significant chunk of these people. We have these in EVE as well, of course ... and the number seems only to be growing. Reminds me of how every strong, healthy community eventually decays once it grows past a certain threshold. I'm not going to go deeper into this, I've written it down somewhere around the forums already. :p Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:** So I guess if anyone who has any other opinion than what you guys have are either "entitled", or non-quality people. I really would like to see who the "right" kind of players are in your opinion, Hitler. Maybe we can have a non-quality player cleansing You're probably one of those who lives in the delusional world of "we're all equal". Also: Godwin's Law. Congratulations! Free games do seem to attract a good mix of people. Some of what you consider quality, some not so much. I for one am not for F2P or P2W. However I do feel the game is slightly too expensive for what you get. I already expressed what I would do if I were to change things so I wont post them here. As for calling people names, grow up. Thinking that you are always right about everything, is also a delusion.
Solecist Project 32327	Posted - 2016.08.22 20:10:23 - [123] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Free games do seem to attract a good mix of people. Some of what you consider quality, some not so much. I for one am not for F2P or P2W. However I do feel the game is slightly too expensive for what you get. I already expressed what I would do if I were to change things so I wont post them here. As for calling people names, grow up. Thinking that you are always right about everything, is also a delusion. Me calling names? You adressed me with Hitler! lol i'd like to read that post of yours. And i'm not delusional about being right. I don't care about being right. All I do is thinking about the things I am talking about ... ... preferably before i start talking ... ... and i'm trying to do it properly. Being wrong about something is fine! :D Means I learn something new and have to rethink! :D Like... I've lost over a dozen times in C&C Generals until I realized how to play. Then this jerk stopped playing with me, because he lost three times in a row. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 20:20:34 - [124] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Free games do seem to attract a good mix of people. Some of what you consider quality, some not so much. I for one am not for F2P or P2W. However I do feel the game is slightly too expensive for what you get. I already expressed what I would do if I were to change things so I wont post them here. As for calling people names, grow up. Thinking that you are always right about everything, is also a delusion. Me calling names? You adressed me with Hitler! lol i'd like to read that post of yours. And i'm not delusional about being right. I don't care about being right. All I do is thinking about the things I am talking about ... ... preferably before i start talking ... ... and i'm trying to do it properly. Being wrong about something is fine! :D Means I learn something new and have to rethink! :D Like... I've lost over a dozen times in C&C Generals until I realized how to play. Then this jerk stopped playing with me, because he lost three times in a row. umad! It's okay, you're wrong. Just admit it.
Pandora Carrollon Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic. 579	Posted - 2016.08.22 20:46:47 - [125] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I know, but I still would like to have just one account to do what I need, versus two. :P Then you need to use one or both accounts to get enough ISK per month to pay for your PLEX. The PLEXers are serious folks and once they get their Empires built up they PLEX in a day or so. I'd work on getting good enough to PLEX any time you want to and just go that route. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 839	Posted - 2016.08.22 21:11:06 - [126] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I really would like to see who the "right" kind of players are in your opinion, Hitler. Maybe we can have a non-quality player cleansing. Oh my. Telling someone from Austria that they would see Hitler as the right kind of player for Eve. That's pretty dumb. Now of course, you couldn't know Sol is from Austria, but that then goes to the complete lack of sensitivity around issues expressed in that statement. That lack of awareness about sensitive issues is where the dumb really lies; and a good explanation for the response. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 21:36:44 - [127] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I know, but I still would like to have just one account to do what I need, versus two. :P Then you need to use one or both accounts to get enough ISK per month to pay for your PLEX. The PLEXers are serious folks and once they get their Empires built up they PLEX in a day or so. I'd work on getting good enough to PLEX any time you want to and just go that route. This has nothing to do with plex. This has everything to do with the fact that I don't think the value of the game is worth maintaining two accounts. I have a job, with limited time, so when I do play, I'm not going to worry so much about making the isk needed to pay for a plex either, because in reality, that's where most of my isk will go. :P I already stated what would cause me to go back to paying $20 a month for Eve. I want to see two mains that can log in at the same time, and train at the same time. Anything less, to me, is not worth it right now.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 21:48:42 - [128] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I really would like to see who the "right" kind of players are in your opinion, Hitler. Maybe we can have a non-quality player cleansing. Oh my. Telling someone from Austria that they would see Hitler as the right kind of player for Eve. That's pretty dumb. Now of course, you couldn't know Sol is from Austria, but that then goes to the complete lack of sensitivity around issues expressed in that statement. That lack of awareness about sensitive issues is where the dumb really lies; and a good explanation for the response. I don't think we should be sensitive to those who express ideologies that parallel the same ideologies as what Hitler believes in. Hitler believes in Genocide, which resulted in....drum roll....mas Genocide of a specific people. In fact we should shame them. For another thing, that reply wasn't a direct reply to Sol. Reading comprehension is a thing. Look at who I was replying to.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26644	Posted - 2016.08.22 22:39:53 - [129] - Quote @Looblaloobla Timmay If I was you, I'd get off the subject of a nasty little man with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and what he believed in, before the ISD team force you to. Up until recently Eve has always been a little bit exclusive, the UI, the game concepts, the complexity, the shenanigans and the reputation of the game put off the more easily satisfied gamers who were content with WoW, WoW clones, MOBAs etc. CCP appear to have changed their strategy and are apparently trying to pull new customers in from existing games, some of those strategy changes have been for the good, some not so much. Much of the resistance to proposals like the OPs, including my own, comes down to the fact that a lot of us have been playing for many years, some in excess of a decade. We have years invested in CCP and Eve and are loathe to see them changing the game in drastic ways in order to increase revenue in the short term. They also appear to be considering dumbing down our game (their words not ours) to pander to the demands of people who often have little time invested, a move that may well end up with Eve being a shadow of its former self and CCP being another dev company that made something good once, and then screwed up by being greedy. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 23:01:29 - [130] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: @Looblaloobla Timmay If I was you, I'd get off the subject of a nasty little man with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and what he believed in, before the ISD team force you to. Up until recently Eve has always been a little bit exclusive, the UI, the game concepts, the complexity, the shenanigans and the reputation of the game put off the more easily satisfied gamers who were content with WoW, WoW clones, MOBAs etc. CCP appear to have changed their strategy and are apparently trying to pull new customers in from existing games, some of those strategy changes have been for the good, some not so much. Much of the resistance to proposals like the OPs, including my own, comes down to the fact that a lot of us have been playing for many years, some in excess of a decade. We have years invested in CCP and Eve and are loathe to see them changing the game in drastic ways in order to increase revenue in the short term. They also appear to be considering dumbing down our game (their words not ours) to pander to the demands of people who often have little time invested, a move that may well end up with Eve being a shadow of its former self and CCP being another dev company that made something good once, and then screwed up by being greedy. I agree, and it is a concern sure. However I'm tired of the Holier than thou mentality that most of these head cases exhibit in any kind of serious topic. I makes me wonder if most of them are the DIRECT CAUSE to why we are having to have these discussions in the first place.
Vortexo VonBrenner Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning 2432	Posted - 2016.08.22 23:14:07 - [131] - Quote looblaloobla, you make me wish to violate the forum rules against personal insults. That is hard to do...congrats, I guess... EvE security zones in pictures EvE quick reference pdf A wise man sums up EvE Smoke me a Kipper...
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 23:17:02 - [132] - Quote Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: looblaloobla, you make me wish to violate the forum rules against personal insults. That is hard to do...congrats, I guess... HeMAD!!!
Vortexo VonBrenner Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning 2432	Posted - 2016.08.22 23:20:53 - [133] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: looblaloobla, you make me wish to violate the forum rules against personal insults. That is hard to do...congrats, I guess... HeMAD!!! More like disgusted. EvE security zones in pictures EvE quick reference pdf A wise man sums up EvE Smoke me a Kipper...
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.22 23:21:56 - [134] - Quote Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: looblaloobla, you make me wish to violate the forum rules against personal insults. That is hard to do...congrats, I guess... HeMAD!!! More like disgusted. Are you saying that discussing the parallels between the way people act in chat vs. how people acted in real life historically is too taboo to discuss simply because of where you are from? If you are disgusted over that then, that is simply your fault.
Giaus Felix Hedion University Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2016.08.23 00:03:07 - [135] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Are you saying that discussing the parallels between the way people act in chat vs. how people acted in real life historically is too taboo to discuss simply because of where you are from? If you are disgusted over that then, that is simply your fault. The comparison that you made is an almost universal social taboo in Europe and is forbidden on pretty much every forum I've ever been a member of. Its use is both insensitive to more than one group and in violation of the rules. It used to be filtered out and I'm surprised that it's fallen off of the word filter list tbh. You should be ashamed of yourself; that kind of comparison has no place here. I am Ralph's junk DNA.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.23 00:11:29 - [136] - Quote Giaus Felix wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Are you saying that discussing the parallels between the way people act in chat vs. how people acted in real life historically is too taboo to discuss simply because of where you are from? If you are disgusted over that then, that is simply your fault. The comparison that you made is an almost universal social taboo in Europe and is forbidden on pretty much every forum I've ever been a member of. Its use is both insensitive to more than one group and in violation of the rules. It used to be filtered out and I'm surprised that it's fallen off of the word filter list tbh. You should be ashamed of yourself; that kind of comparison has no place here. Actually it's an even bigger disgrace by this community to never learn the lesson in the first place and fall back to old habits. Let's just never discuss anything of any importance for the fear of offending a certain group. This is why we are doomed to repeat history.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26647	Posted - 2016.08.23 01:06:45 - [137] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Actually it's an even bigger disgrace by this community to never learn the lesson in the first place and fall back to old habits. Let's just never discuss anything of any importance for the fear of offending a certain group. This is why we are doomed to repeat history. The lesson was learnt long ago hence the social taboo that another poster mentioned, we learn why it's a social taboo at school; apparently you missed those lessons. You're equating the attempted extermination of several ethnic groups, which, shamefully, still happens today in certain areas of the world, and around 60 million deaths with telling people that they're whiny self entitled idiots who should go back to WoW and think that's a reasonable comparison? Get a grip on reality, or take your poison elsewhere. reported for trolling/flamebait btw Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.23 01:33:51 - [138] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Actually it's an even bigger disgrace by this community to never learn the lesson in the first place and fall back to old habits. Let's just never discuss anything of any importance for the fear of offending a certain group. This is why we are doomed to repeat history. The lesson was learnt long ago hence the social taboo that another poster mentioned, we learn why it's a social taboo at school; apparently you missed those lessons. You're equating the attempted extermination of several ethnic groups, which is still going on today in certain areas of the world, and around 60 million deaths with telling people that they're whiny self entitled idiots who should go back to WoW and think that it's a reasonable comparison? Get a grip on reality, or take your poison elsewhere. reported for trolling/flamebait btw There is a difference between saying it's equal to, and parallel to. I said it's parallel to, not the actual thing. Get a grip on yourself. However, to say that we don't need a certain kind of "whiny self entitled idiots" in our game, for the better of the game is very very close to facism. Here is a definition: A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. I want to put an emphasis on; FORCIBLY SUPPRESSING OPPOSITION, AND CRITICISM. EMPHASIZING AN AGGRESSIVE NATIONALISM(LOYALTY TO THE GAME), AND RACISM(DUMB PEOPLE, ENTITLED, WHINY, IDIOTS, NON-QUALITY). You guys are all like mini little Hitlers. You shun his name, but you don't understand why you even do it. Learn your own history, and the reasons why Hitler did what he did. It's a fake form of Empathy, you think you are taking a stand against people who discuss actual things, but it's really Apathy because you stop at the substance, and don't even know why.
Hilti Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 103	Posted - 2016.08.23 01:49:31 - [139] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Hey EvE Players A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win. I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost. I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription. 1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters. 2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK. 3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win. CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play. One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market. I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W. Thank You F2P and P2W are more suited to games like WOT where there is no sandbox. The problem with these models is they ignore one of the biggest gamification mechanic which is "loss". In good games the sense of loss is something that keeps you engaged. This is something that Eve used to be very good at because there used to be a point in the game where 85% of people grinded to pvp and it was a struggle for isk. The notion here was "lets give people more opportunity to make isk so they can pvp (if that's your end game)", in reality it made the feeling of loss diminish and hence why some have chosen to play other games. Now I'm not saying lets abandon incursions, moon mining, ratting, missioning etc because these are good examples of resource collecting which is another gamification mechanism. What I am saying is really look at this from 30k feet up in the air and you will realize there are already F2P and P2W mechanisms in Eve which, in my opinion, are at a suitable level and should not be changed because it will ruin the fabric of what Eve is built on.
Hilti Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 103	Posted - 2016.08.23 02:20:17 - [140] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: @Looblaloobla Timmay If I was you, I'd get off the subject of a nasty little man with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and what he believed in, before the ISD team force you to. Up until recently Eve has always been a little bit exclusive, the UI, the game concepts, the complexity, the shenanigans and the reputation of the game put off the more easily satisfied gamers who were content with WoW, WoW clones, MOBAs etc. CCP appear to have changed their strategy and are apparently trying to pull new customers in from existing games, some of those strategy changes have been for the good, some not so much. Much of the resistance to proposals like the OPs, including my own, comes down to the fact that a lot of us have been playing for many years, some in excess of a decade. We have years invested in CCP and Eve and are loathe to see them changing the game in drastic ways in order to increase revenue in the short term. They also appear to be considering dumbing down our game (their words not ours) to pander to the demands of people who often have little time invested, a move that may well end up with Eve being a shadow of its former self and CCP being another dev company that made something good once, and then screwed up by being greedy. I agree, and it is a concern sure. However I'm tired of the Holier than thou mentality that most of these head cases exhibit in any kind of serious topic. I makes me wonder if most of them are the DIRECT CAUSE to why we are having to have these discussions in the first place. Personally I don' t agree with this at all. If you look at what they have done for the last 18 months CCP have really tried to change things up to encourage more activity. All you have to do is look into the next 6months pipeline to realise this is what they are trying to do. The issue is at the moment people are still hurt over command automisation ban, jump fatigue and Aegis. Command automisation killed the fleets of many alts controlled by one person, jump fatigued stopped the cancer blob alliances jumping half way across the map and Aegis actually means you have to live in your space and defend it if it comes liable. So really i disagree they are dulling the game down to let people, who invest very little in the game, become a focus customer. There are other things I want CCP to change because i think they have gone to far and cause terrible game play however I have a feeling my desires are skewed more to the solo/small gang player. That said there is plenty of research out there that tells you people don't want to be an F1 monkey and require specific roles and to perform certain tasks within a gamified experience, the problem relating this to Eve is the mechanics require everyman and his dog to get anywhere in the game. Example a logi ship is the equivalent of +5 DPS ships, so to defeat a small gang, logi is a pre-requisite which is another barrier to good game play. However, enough of my moaning, the strategy is and always will be to engage loyal customers. This is the cheapest way to make a profit.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7767	Posted - 2016.08.23 03:02:28 - [141] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: No, it's just entitlement. The whole world is getting outraged right now because people won't give them free stuff and cave to their demands, and it's not just in gaming. Now don't get me wrong, if someone is in genuine trouble and their circumstances have become a barrier to basic survival, I think we should help. We don't owe them, but we should help. But video games are not a ***** component of basic survival. I spent a good year of my life homeless and worked my ***** arse off with neigh a handout to speak of to get myself off the street, into university and a half-decent communications degree, and into a half-decent freelance journalism gig. And then I see people whining about video games being too expensive, and I really just wanna shove a foot in their backside, boot and all. Reality check kids: the world, and life, does not part like the red sea to let you through. You guys seem to be confusing "entitlement" with industry standard. The industry standard, has changed since the 80's. Just because it was more expensive to play a game back then, doesn't mean that prices should remain that way. With that same logic, all personal computers should still be in the tens of thousands. When I say tens of thousands I mean plural, because they really were that expensive. I'm sorry that you nerds used to walk in the snow both ways after shoveling someone's carport to earn your right to play an arcade game, but just because you did, and other people didn't, doesn't mean they are entitled. In fact it feels like you are the one entitled here, since you want everyone else to feel what your misery once was. Your 'industry standard' is not just pandering to entitlement, it's taking advantage of it. Most f2p models are more expensive than their subscription counterparts if you want the same gaming experience that subscription players want. You can take SWTOR as an excellent example, because it has the 'best' of both worlds. Play it for free, and to get the same access to warzones, flashpoints, artefact gear, and other stuff that a subscription player gets for just $15 a month, you have to pay a whole lot more than $15 a month on cartel coins for 'passes' and unlocks. How do you think things like this become 'industry standard'? It's not industry standard by the way, and we can dismiss that bunkum outright, but even if it were, it would only be because people like you are so easily taken for a ride by the word 'free'. Nothing is free, my dear, nothing. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7767	Posted - 2016.08.23 03:05:06 - [142] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it. I laughed when you indirectly referred to yourself as a quality player..... And I laughed when you took the first opportunity to hurl a personal attack. Sol is right, this game doesn't need more players. It needs the right kind of players. Those would be the kind of people who adapt to the game, rather than demand the game adapt to them. Also, people who can afford it, obviously, which is pretty much anyone with a job, and even a fair few without one, since it's really not that expensive. I still remember when MMO or MUD subscriptions were handled by ISPs rather than the game's developer, because the ISP would have the servers. $100 or more for a few hours of text-based wonder and excitement. People today don't realise how very ******* easy you have it, and they still think they're entitled to more for less. Well you see that was a direct attack on the op when he was referring to "quality players." He was calling the op a non-quality player, along with all those who prefer any other game model than subscription based. So I guess if anyone who has any other opinion than what you guys have are either "entitled", or non-quality people. I really would like to see who the "right" kind of players are in your opinion, Hitler. Maybe we can have a non-quality player cleansing. No, that's not what Sol said at all. You are strawmanning. Strawmanning is what people of low-quality intellect do. Even after I elaborated for you, you continued to strawman. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7767	Posted - 2016.08.23 03:11:49 - [143] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Actually it's an even bigger disgrace by this community to never learn the lesson in the first place and fall back to old habits. Let's just never discuss anything of any importance for the fear of offending a certain group. This is why we are doomed to repeat history. The lesson was learnt long ago hence the social taboo that another poster mentioned, we learn why it's a social taboo at school; apparently you missed those lessons. You're equating the attempted extermination of several ethnic groups, which is still going on today in certain areas of the world, and around 60 million deaths with telling people that they're whiny self entitled idiots who should go back to WoW and think that it's a reasonable comparison? Get a grip on reality, or take your poison elsewhere. reported for trolling/flamebait btw There is a difference between saying it's equal to, and parallel to. I said it's parallel to... And you were still wrong. And before you say it, yes, I'm mad. I'm so mad, in fact, that I'm not even going to take your sister to dinner first. Real talk though, there are no parralels between people disagreeing with you on the internet, and genocide. None. Nada. You are hurling the 'parralel' around as nothing more than a pejorative to attempt to trigger people so you can say, 'lolumadbruh', a childish retort as old as message boards themselves and a telling indication of the quality of your intellect. Not that we didn't know before how low quality it is... GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.08.23 03:58:04 - [144] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: No, it's just entitlement. The whole world is getting outraged right now because people won't give them free stuff and cave to their demands, and it's not just in gaming. Now don't get me wrong, if someone is in genuine trouble and their circumstances have become a barrier to basic survival, I think we should help. We don't owe them, but we should help. But video games are not a ***** component of basic survival. I spent a good year of my life homeless and worked my ***** arse off with neigh a handout to speak of to get myself off the street, into university and a half-decent communications degree, and into a half-decent freelance journalism gig. And then I see people whining about video games being too expensive, and I really just wanna shove a foot in their backside, boot and all. Reality check kids: the world, and life, does not part like the red sea to let you through. You guys seem to be confusing "entitlement" with industry standard. The industry standard, has changed since the 80's. Just because it was more expensive to play a game back then, doesn't mean that prices should remain that way. With that same logic, all personal computers should still be in the tens of thousands. When I say tens of thousands I mean plural, because they really were that expensive. I'm sorry that you nerds used to walk in the snow both ways after shoveling someone's carport to earn your right to play an arcade game, but just because you did, and other people didn't, doesn't mean they are entitled. In fact it feels like you are the one entitled here, since you want everyone else to feel what your misery once was. Your 'industry standard' is not just pandering to entitlement, it's taking advantage of it. Most f2p models are more expensive than their subscription counterparts if you want the same gaming experience that subscription players want. You can take SWTOR as an excellent example, because it has the 'best' of both worlds. Play it for free, and to get the same access to warzones, flashpoints, artefact gear, and other stuff that a subscription player gets for just $15 a month, you have to pay a whole lot more than $15 a month on cartel coins for 'passes' and unlocks. How do you think things like this become 'industry standard'? It's not industry standard by the way, and we can dismiss that bunkum outright, but even if it were, it would only be because people like you are so easily taken for a ride by the word 'free'. Nothing is free, my dear, nothing. SWTOR I fail to see how that caters to "entitlement". You can play the game for free, yes, but it is severely hindered by various things. IE: less tool bars you can use, which makes the game unplayable to me tbh. I think it also greatly regulates how many times you can play in warzones, flashpoints, raids etc. So it has it's limitations. I don't think that is necessarily catering to entitled people. What it's in fact doing is placing a carrot at the end of the stick. That carrot being, if you pay the subscription, you can play the full game. The subscription even brings in a monthly amount of cartel coins that you can spend in that market. So unless you really are impatient, and can't wait to save up those coins, you can indeed spend more money for cartel coins. Which I feel is okay. Nothing in that cartel store is anything you really need. I don't see your connection on catering to entitled players in regards to SWTOR. Now let's go and compare this game to World of Tanks. Which you CAN play for free. I do play that game for free. I have not payed a cent for that game. I do pay for it in time though, because there is this portion of the game called a pay wall. Which if you are not familiar with that term is where, if you don't spend money in the game, you progress very slowly until you make it past this wall. People can choose to spend money or not. Maybe I'm different from other gamers, but when it comes to finding a game that I can enjoy, and play it for cheap, I'll play it. Many games that are subscription based I really don't play. Excluding this game. However I have drastically decreased how many subscriptions I have. I simply feel that this game is too expensive for what they give you. It's a ten year old game for crying out loud. I feel like in order for this game to stay alive they need to remain competitive. You only do that by adding content, or lowering prices. CCP has done both. They have added some content, and they lowered subscriptions if payed in bulk. They are doing this not to cater to entitlements. They are doing this because they need to meet their overhead, and like many older games it becomes harder and harder for them to do, unless they make it enticing to all players to play. This game not only competes with other games, but it also competes with Netflix, Pandora, Spotify, etc. When I do my finances with wifey, I am personally held accountable for what I spend from our money, and I can only pick from what I really enjoy most. It's not because we're poor, it's because we simply just do not want to pay for too many subscriptions. What people like you guys are saying is, screw the overhead, we don't want the new players, because they will be entitled, non-quality players. You know, because having, and maintaining a budget at home makes people like me entitled, and non-quality. Go ahead and and try to shove your boot up my backside. Real world economics states that if Eve Online cannot adapt to find new players to rejuvinate it's overhead, Eve Online will eventually end. You shoving boots up people's backsides doesn't help the matter at all. In fact I bet you don't even have any good ideas that are worth mentioning. TLDR; I'm lecturing some old guy. I'mMad
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.08.23 03:59:42 - [145] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Actually it's an even bigger disgrace by this community to never learn the lesson in the first place and fall back to old habits. Let's just never discuss anything of any importance for the fear of offending a certain group. This is why we are doomed to repeat history. The lesson was learnt long ago hence the social taboo that another poster mentioned, we learn why it's a social taboo at school; apparently you missed those lessons. You're equating the attempted extermination of several ethnic groups, which is still going on today in certain areas of the world, and around 60 million deaths with telling people that they're whiny self entitled idiots who should go back to WoW and think that it's a reasonable comparison? Get a grip on reality, or take your poison elsewhere. reported for trolling/flamebait btw There is a difference between saying it's equal to, and parallel to. I said it's parallel to... And you were still wrong. And before you say it, yes, I'm mad. I'm so mad, in fact, that I'm not even going to take your sister to dinner first. Real talk though, there are no parralels between people disagreeing with you on the internet, and genocide. None. Nada. You are hurling the 'parralel' around as nothing more than a pejorative to attempt to trigger people so you can say, 'lolumadbruh', a childish retort as old as message boards themselves and a telling indication of the quality of your intellect. Not that we didn't know before how low quality it is... Speaking of strawmanning......^
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.08.23 04:11:32 - [146] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anyone argueing for f2p argues for the death of the game thanks to the influx of self entitled, whiny idiots. Anyone bringing up the "new player argument" should consider that quality matters as well. And those who can't afford because they're simply poor ... well ... then don't play. Playing EVE isn't some right, you have to pay for it. This is a really pretty text pyramid, I like it. I laughed when you indirectly referred to yourself as a quality player..... And I laughed when you took the first opportunity to hurl a personal attack. Sol is right, this game doesn't need more players. It needs the right kind of players. Those would be the kind of people who adapt to the game, rather than demand the game adapt to them. Also, people who can afford it, obviously, which is pretty much anyone with a job, and even a fair few without one, since it's really not that expensive. I still remember when MMO or MUD subscriptions were handled by ISPs rather than the game's developer, because the ISP would have the servers. $100 or more for a few hours of text-based wonder and excitement. People today don't realise how very ******* easy you have it, and they still think they're entitled to more for less. Well you see that was a direct attack on the op when he was referring to "quality players." He was calling the op a non-quality player, along with all those who prefer any other game model than subscription based. So I guess if anyone who has any other opinion than what you guys have are either "entitled", or non-quality people. I really would like to see who the "right" kind of players are in your opinion, Hitler. Maybe we can have a non-quality player cleansing. No, that's not what Sol said at all. You are strawmanning. Strawmanning is what people of low-quality intellect do. Even after I elaborated for you, you continued to strawman. Strawmanning is exactly what you are writing in the above post. You are disagreeing, without an actual rebuttal, and then insulting my intellect. Thanks for giving us all an example on what not to do.
Dun'Gal Myriad Contractors Inc. 261	Posted - 2016.08.23 04:35:34 - [147] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as: - T1's only - Up to frigates only - Only the basic industry ships - Only HS - Industrial restriction - only T1 mods - SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension - no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account - limit skill able to train and levels - etc - (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....) Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever). The key to getting and retaining new players is to show them just how massive and in-depth EVE really is...and it takes more than a free weekend of short trial account to do that. This I think would be much better than the current trial accounts they have - I'd say keep most, if not all the restrictions trials currently have, ie. no multiboxing, restricted skills etc. Add to it your suggestions of only high-sec, pennalizing accounts that go -2.5 sec, take away implants, had a couple other things to add but forgot them between the time starting this post and now.... o.O old age sucks
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7769	Posted - 2016.08.23 04:46:21 - [148] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: SWTOR I fail to see how that caters to "entitlement". You can play the game for free, yes, but it is severely hindered by various things. Exactly. This is your precious 'industry standard', the abuse of customers. A few exceptions to this standard don't make it a good model, nor does it make it one that would suit EVE. You're also trying to apply 'industry standard' to a game that is nowhere near industry standard. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7769	Posted - 2016.08.23 04:48:03 - [149] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Strawmanning is exactly what you are writing in the above post. You are disagreeing, without an actual rebuttal, and then insulting my intellect. Thanks for giving us all an example on what not to do. I explained in no uncertain terms exactly what Sol meant in a previous post. Your inability to read, or choice to ignore (either one) that post confirms my observations of your intellect. If you are insulted by those observations, that is hardly my problem. I did not accuse you of strawmanning without providing examples, or without explanation of the argument you falsely represented. You, however, have done exactly that to me. If you don't want your intellect 'insulted', then don't demonstrate a sub-par one. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7769	Posted - 2016.08.23 04:52:02 - [150] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Actually it's an even bigger disgrace by this community to never learn the lesson in the first place and fall back to old habits. Let's just never discuss anything of any importance for the fear of offending a certain group. This is why we are doomed to repeat history. The lesson was learnt long ago hence the social taboo that another poster mentioned, we learn why it's a social taboo at school; apparently you missed those lessons. You're equating the attempted extermination of several ethnic groups, which is still going on today in certain areas of the world, and around 60 million deaths with telling people that they're whiny self entitled idiots who should go back to WoW and think that it's a reasonable comparison? Get a grip on reality, or take your poison elsewhere. reported for trolling/flamebait btw There is a difference between saying it's equal to, and parallel to. I said it's parallel to... And you were still wrong. And before you say it, yes, I'm mad. I'm so mad, in fact, that I'm not even going to take your sister to dinner first. Real talk though, there are no parralels between people disagreeing with you on the internet, and genocide. None. Nada. You are hurling the 'parralel' around as nothing more than a pejorative to attempt to trigger people so you can say, 'lolumadbruh', a childish retort as old as message boards themselves and a telling indication of the quality of your intellect. Not that we didn't know before how low quality it is... Speaking of strawmanning......^ This was not a strawman. I addressed exactly what you said. You said you were drawing parallels, and I addressed that directly. "I know you are you said you are so what am I" might have worked in fifth grade, but you're dealing with 'some old guy' who's a bit more clued in than the average child you're probably used to arguing with, so I suggest you bring a stronger game if you want to take me on, kiddo. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Paddie Whack Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2016.08.23 06:27:29 - [151] - Quote Once again, NO
Solecist Project 32331	Posted - 2016.08.23 08:16:17 - [152] - Quote Hey, now I'm literally Hitler! It only took seven years until someone called me Hitler. Fascinating! But what's even more fascinating: "FORCIBLY SUPPRESSING OPPOSITION, AND CRITICISM. EMPHASIZING AN AGGRESSIVE NATIONALISM(LOYALTY TO THE GAME), AND RACISM(DUMB PEOPLE, ENTITLED, WHINY, IDIOTS, NON-QUALITY)" The only ones who forcibly suppress criticism are carebears who spread their hate, as the forums prove. And as you prove. It's like calling everyone who is against hording masses of refugees as Nazi or racist. It shuts them up, because of the social issues connected with it. Aggrressive nationalism. Do you even understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism? Racism. That's a funny one. Again, there is nothing "racist" about opposing people who do the same **** you do ... ... like trying to stop any criticism by spreading hate in the shallow name of "good". You're not a good person! Have a friend read your posts out loud for you! i can assure you that i am not literally hitler ... ... though at some point in 2012 i actually figured out how to pull that one off. Wasn't my cup of tea, so i spread the idea in Hek local. ^_^ I really wished you'd realize how you are far more representing of what you "hate". "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 1874	Posted - 2016.08.23 10:07:47 - [153] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: People today don't realise how very ***** easy you have it, and they still think they're entitled to more for less. I call that the trap of progress (progress in this case meaning as time has gone on, things have gotten cheaper and easier for people, which denies people a sense of 'context' when it comes to value).. When i was 9 years old (1983...where has the time gone) my parents decided (after some begging on my part) to let me go to the arcade at the mall down the street from our house by myself. Most games were a quarter and that was real money to me then, I made 10 bucks cutting a whole a yard front and back, but the ones that let you sit down were usually 50 cents. Star Wars was one of them.. I'd maybe get a whole 3 minutes of play for 50 cents before I'd invariably crash into a damn wall lol. The force was weak with my 9 year old butt. Fast forward 33 years and 50 cents gets me 1410 minutes of game time** in EVE Online yet someone EVE is so terribly expensive people are having problems paying for it.. Maybe that's part of the problem when people talk about how 'expensive' EVE is, lack of context for younger people maybe? I wouldn't go that far tho. Today's arcade games ask for 1 EURO per round. And for these money you get 1 race in 'Need For Speed' or 1 round in Terminator. Couple minutes at max in any case. So yeah.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
roberts dragon The Scope Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.08.23 11:53:09 - [154] - Quote I would say over time they will have to go free to play look at world of tanks how much cash they bring in compared to eve online big difference I enjoy the game but are not active due to friend gone awol . at the end of the day business is business period and eve would benefit by the influx of new players , and as for the the old ones/players been playing for years may the force be with you
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26656	Posted - 2016.08.23 12:20:58 - [155] - Quote roberts dragon wrote: I would say over time they will have to go free to play look at world of tanks how much cash they bring in compared to eve online big difference I enjoy the game but are not active due to friend gone awol . at the end of the day business is business period and eve would benefit by the influx of new players , and as for the the old ones/players been playing for years may the force be with you A 13 year old subscription game going free to play? It's not hard to see that as an act of desperation before the final nail is driven home. The gaming press, who like Eve for the most part because it makes great headlines, would crucify CCP. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.08.23 13:16:39 - [156] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: SWTOR I fail to see how that caters to "entitlement". You can play the game for free, yes, but it is severely hindered by various things. Exactly. This is your precious 'industry standard', the abuse of customers. A few exceptions to this standard don't make it a good model, nor does it make it one that would suit EVE. You're also trying to apply 'industry standard' to a game that is nowhere near industry standard. I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard.
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.08.23 13:21:06 - [157] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Hey, now I'm literally Hitler! It only took seven years until someone called me Hitler. Fascinating! But what's even more fascinating: "FORCIBLY SUPPRESSING OPPOSITION, AND CRITICISM. EMPHASIZING AN AGGRESSIVE NATIONALISM(LOYALTY TO THE GAME), AND RACISM(DUMB PEOPLE, ENTITLED, WHINY, IDIOTS, NON-QUALITY)" The only ones who forcibly suppress criticism are carebears who spread their hate, as the forums prove. And as you prove. It's like calling everyone who is against hording masses of refugees as Nazi or racist. It shuts them up, because of the social issues connected with it. Aggrressive nationalism. Do you even understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism? Racism. That's a funny one. Again, there is nothing "racist" about opposing people who do the same **** you do ... ... like trying to stop any criticism by spreading hate in the shallow name of "good". You're not a good person! Have a friend read your posts out loud for you! i can assure you that i am not literally hitler ... ... though at some point in 2012 i actually figured out how to pull that one off. Wasn't my cup of tea, so i spread the idea in Hek local. ^_^ I really wished you'd realize how you are far more representing of what you "hate". TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7780	Posted - 2016.08.23 13:26:31 - [158] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard. What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good. Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 62	Posted - 2016.08.23 13:37:16 - [159] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: A 13 year old subscription game going free to play? It wouldn't be hard to see that as an act of desperation before the final nail is driven home. The gaming press, who like Eve for the most part because it makes great headlines, would crucify CCP.[/quote] There is a paradox here. If business was great and customers constantly stable, increasing or with predicted years of growth then there would be no need to rethink the business model. However, if through various reasons, the business model is showing that the future may not be stable and that the end is nigh, wouldn't that indicate that CCP needs to do something different, most likely on the more drastic side of the equation? If something is dying and needs to adapt, telling it that if it changes it will die is a moot point. It's a bit of denial. The gaming world today is vastly different than it was 13 years ago and the age of subs is clearly over...why kill eve if there is a chance to change its direction through a modified business model? *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.08.23 13:58:06 - [160] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard. What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good. Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7781	Posted - 2016.08.23 14:01:56 - [161] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: If business was great and customers constantly stable, increasing or with predicted years of growth then there would be no need to rethink the business model. However, if through various reasons, the business model is showing that the future may not be stable and that the end is nigh, wouldn't that indicate that CCP needs to do something different, most likely on the more drastic side of the equation? You make an excellent point, but not the one you think you've made. If EVE goes F2P or not, it won't be up to anyone on this forum. All of these 'arguments' are useless without the data to show one way or the other the health of the game now, and what effect changing to an F2P model would have. Only CCP have that info, but anyone that's been here for more than a few minutes and understands well enough the core nature of EVE online knows that F2P would damage the game at its most fundamental level, that of its mechanics. Much of the game would have to change to implement the model, and how much would that cost? Did CCP just invest as much as they did in server upgrades because the company/game is unhealthy? Of course they didn't. Here's the other problem. F2P models rely on a very small number of people paying lots of money to keep the game afloat, aka 'whales'. Anyone that takes the game seriously enough now to be one such whale is going to bail if the game goes F2P though, so the game will have to attract new ones, which means getting new people with an actual interest and passion for EVE Online to play if CCP wants to turn some modicum of a profit. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who play f2p games are extremely casual and fleeting. With the old guard gone, CCP are going to have a lot more work to do to attract said whales, than if they'd just paid more attention to people who have a real passion for this game and didn't do some of the stupid **** they've done in the first place to chase them off. As noted above, CCP are still investing a lot of money in this game, and despite making some rather dumb moves, they haven't really done anything to EVE that looks like an act of desperation yet. They're nowhere near even considering an F2P model, but when they do, you can bet your bottom dollar that EVE will indeed be on its final legs. F2P doesn't save games. In order to successfully implement a free to play model, you have to design the game itself with that model in mind. Or have a really popular IP on the box, like Star Wars (seriously, SWTOR only survived because it's star wars and we all know it. I quite enjoy it myself, but even I won't deny it's tacky and cheap implimentation and presentation throughout most of it). GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jack AmarrX IMPERIAL EAGLE 17	Posted - 2016.08.23 14:12:11 - [162] - Quote I think if EVE does go FTP (I don't think it should, but it's worth considering at least) the F2P version should be the base game, as it exists now. Limiting the people paying for free in any way (restricting them to hi-sec for example, or not letting them join corps) will be bad for the game as it will promote styles of game play that EVE is not necessarily well suited to (solo missioning/mining) and lots of players (though not all) will get bored and drop off rather quickly. F2P has to retain players. It's also hard to introduce paid for expansions, because every expansion in EVE normally adds depth, rather than brand new content that you can gate for paying customers only. You could argue that citadels could be gated, only being able to construct them if you are a paying customer, but then subscribers could accept ISK to set them up, circumventing this issue. You could stop free accounts from docking with them, but as Outposts and POS's bow out, that will make it very hard for free players to play in nulsec or wormholes. Gating update content is thus too impractical to consider, IMO. So where would the money come from? SKINS and Apparel could be a good source. Skins would need it's pricing changed, focusing on quantity, and apparel will need to be accompanied by more meaningful WiS, but both offer a source of income for CCP that does not affect the game in any way. Buying Aurum and ISK might also be good. Aurum should be sold in packages on the market. Similar to the PLEX market. You buy Aurum for real world money, and you can either sell it to another player at a rate dictated by the market, or exchange it for skins and apparel. This adds a way for players to buy ISK with real world currency. A third option, Subscribers, could be added. Perhaps once a month they are given a load of Aurum, some skill injectors and some limited edition skins, corp logos on ships, and other goodies. As long as the monthly payout is more than the individual worth of the items in real world currency, there will be a market for it. The subscribers could also have access to the only gated content I can see working, and that's Capital ships. Dreds, Carriers, Super carriers, Titans, Freighters and Jump Freighters, as well as the Orca and Roqual could be quite easily locked to free accounts. So in EVE real world currency would buy you - Skill Injectors, ISK, Skins, Apparel and everything included under the subscriber rewards scheme, as well as access to capital ships. Now some of you might argue that buying SP and ISK with real world currency is P2W. I think that's incorrect. The most important resource in EVE is the actual experience of the pilot. ISK and SP are important resources, but only to a relatively finite degree, and disadvantages in either can be easily overcome with our friend N+1. 10 pilots with 10mil SP will always beat one pilot with 100 mil SP. The only way EVE could become P2W is if they add modules, weapons and ammo that provide a huge advantage and little draw back to fitting them. I doubt they ever would. Anyway just my 2 cents. As I said I think the subscriber model is best, CCP just need to focus on getting old players to return, and new players to stay.
Solecist Project 32342	Posted - 2016.08.23 14:17:35 - [163] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard. What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good. Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears. This is perfect. You read things with bias and don't recognize that you have bias ... ... and no matter what anyone would say ... ... you are stuck in your belief. Then you pull a Hitler and talk about oppression ... ... not realizing that the only one here who tries to oppress discussion is you: By whoring cheaply via "youmad" and "hemad" and grabbing attention ... ... distracting and driving away those who want to talk about the topic. And people actually waste time talking to you... You prove my points about certain people with your very own behaviour ... ... so please keep going. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia Typos. the curse of mobility.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 7783	Posted - 2016.08.23 14:18:54 - [164] - Quote Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard. What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good. Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears. I guess I'll have to keep this line on a clipboard somewhere specifically for replying to you. Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. I even wrote a whole post elaborating on Sol's point, and you ignored that too. Well done. You have successfully exceeeded the point that I thought was the limit of human ignorance. /GolfClap GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Looblaloobla Timmay Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.08.23 14:51:18 - [165] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: I would hardly call SWTOR industry standard. What you would call it is irrelevant to what it is. Looblaloobla Timmay wrote: TLDR: I'm going to start a finger pointing war because I have no point and now I need to shift blame to someone else so that I can look good. Your ignorance of the point doesn't mean there isn't one. He had no point if you look it. He was completely sarcastic in what he said, and then shifted blame on carebears. This is perfect. You read things with bias and don't recognize that you have bias ... ... and no matter what anyone would say ... ... you are stuck in your belief. Then you pull a Hitler and talk about oppression ... ... not realizing that the only one here who tries to oppress discussion is you: By whoring cheaply via "youmad" and "hemad" and grabbing attention ... ... distracting and driving away those who want to talk about the topic. And people actually waste time talking to you... You prove my points about certain people with your very own behaviour ... ... so please keep going. lol. Defining Fascism and then describing your actions as sort of mirroring that sort of thing doesn't make me Hitler. Nice try. Then you are going on about how I'm proving your point about certain "non-quality" people. (I injected that part, because we shouldn't forget that you started the whole people quality control thing here in this thread.) To justify your own terrible behavior on the forums. Gotcha.
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 304	Posted - 2016.08.23 14:59:44 - [166] - Quote ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department *I do not respond to Evemails.*
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 64	Posted - 2016.08.23 15:25:03 - [167] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: ... I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 305	Posted - 2016.08.23 15:32:52 - [168] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: ... I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department *I do not respond to Evemails.*
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 8622	Posted - 2016.08.23 16:26:01 - [169] - Quote ISD Max Trix wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: ... I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server. Re-affirming the forum software is shite. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
Josef Djugashvilis 3450	Posted - 2016.08.23 16:27:17 - [170] - Quote NO, not today, not tomorrow, not ever. This is not a signature.
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 64	Posted - 2016.08.23 18:49:14 - [171] - Quote ISD Max Trix wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: ... I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server. I did what you do here for FOCUS and suggest you push for better software as Doc is right, whatever runs this forum is pretty horrible... (thanks for answering though) *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Solecist Project 32351	Posted - 2016.08.23 19:51:39 - [172] - Quote Caco De'mon wrote: ISD Max Trix wrote: Caco De'mon wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: ... I replied but it was lost when the thread was temp-locked...throwing in the white towel as this place is ludicrousness.... One of the downsides of the way the forum functions. If we don't lock the threads when we do a large clean up, we run the risk of crashing the forum server. I did what you do here for FOCUS and suggest you push for better software as Doc is right, whatever runs this forum is pretty horrible... (thanks for answering though) They are considering Disquss as new forum, iirc. A dev mentioned it some time ago.. Which reminds me of an idea for an additional forum which I had. A truly gigantic subforum that has no equals and would be worthy of EVE ONLINE. Also... I kind of like you. You seem smart, though you (still/so far) lack the desire to seek out ... ... the fundamental parts ... ... that actually make up the things you try to build logical constructs for. Most likely because you haven't realized their existence yet. ^_^ And now I may have helped you realizing, because I pointed out their existence ... ... and deliberately sent your brain on a journey towards understanding the thinking process itself. ... That's 10 bucks, super discount for you. :) That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia 8 Golden Rules of EVE
Radical Posture Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2016.08.23 21:38:47 - [173] - Quote Make it Free to Play but the skill timer wont tick unless you buy a plex or skill injector.
roberts dragon The Scope Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2016.08.26 09:45:23 - [174] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: roberts dragon wrote: I would say over time they will have to go free to play look at world of tanks how much cash they bring in compared to eve online big difference I enjoy the game but are not active due to friend gone awol . at the end of the day business is business period and eve would benefit by the influx of new players , and as for the the old ones/players been playing for years may the force be with you A 13 year old subscription game going free to play? It wouldn't be hard to see that as an act of desperation before the final nail is driven home. The gaming press, who like Eve for the most part because it makes great headlines, would crucify CCP. if you look at what happened with the elder scrolls online I was beta tester they told us never go free to play and look at it now no subs , as I have said business is business they would get wads more players and would I think earn more cash that would get new/more content . so long term it be better to move forward and do free to play with limited options like they do in runescape to name 1 and micro transactions also do what the gambling sites do in eve sell isk plex on ebay .
Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3416	Posted - 2016.08.26 10:11:32 - [175] - Quote Radical Posture wrote: Make it Free to Play but the skill timer wont tick unless you buy a plex or skill injector. so just free cyno alts and scouts everywhere? Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Soltys Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 147	Posted - 2016.08.26 10:17:27 - [176] - Quote TBH, a typical F2P mmo these days has "premium" subscription costing - what a surprise - around what P2P mmos used to. And the whole game is structured in a way, that playing without it is somewhere between completely pointless and highly frustrating. EvE is not that far away from that. TBH main difference is that our "premium" sub is still mandatory, and the cash shop is relatively clean (with extractors being none the less a touchy subject). Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
Reinhardt Kreiss 2	Posted - 2016.08.26 10:25:45 - [177] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Radical Posture wrote: Make it Free to Play but the skill timer wont tick unless you buy a plex or skill injector. so just free cyno alts and scouts everywhere? I'm always amazed at how terrible people are at understanding the implications of (their own) ideas. The game would be full of maxed out miners, haulers, traders, mission runners and whatnot. None of them paying one single cent.
Josef Djugashvilis 3451	Posted - 2016.08.26 11:15:27 - [178] - Quote If Eve ever became p2w - f2p or any variation thereof, I would not threaten to quit, I would simply allow my sub to expire and take early retirement. CCP has, as have many game companies, made foolish decisions (loot spew was an example) but I do not believe that they would be that foolish unless the game was dying anyway, in which case my quitting would only be my getting off a sinking ship. PS, I just avert my eyes when cash for skills is mentioned. This is not a signature.
Caco De'mon The Conference Elite CODE. 73	Posted - 2016.08.31 16:49:22 - [179] - Quote Quote: If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing. - Valkin Mordirc Quote: I like Eve as a sub game and if it went to F2P, the chances of me quitting are extremely likely. - Roenok Baalnorn Quote: If Eve ever became p2w - f2p or any variation thereof, I would not threaten to quit, I would simply allow my sub to expire and take early retirement. - Josef Djugashvilis Ciao! *"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
ISD Max Trix ISD Community Communications Liaisons 342	Posted - 2016.08.31 17:12:50 - [180] - Quote Since CCP has opened an official thread on this topic, I will close this thread so the discussion can move over there, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491738&find=unread ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department *I do not respond to Evemails.*

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