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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14304
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Posted - 2016.08.22 20:46:42 -
[1] - Quote
Hey folks! As we first mentioned at Fanfest this year, we have a visual revamp in the works for Mining Barges and Exhumers (along with many other ships) to continue improving EVE's amazing visuals.
This pass on the barges allowed the art team to fulfill a long-standing request from the game design team. Way back in 2012 when CCP Tallest implemented the big tiericide of mining barges the three branches of barges were changed to have similar mining yields and specific specializations (defenses, storage capacity and range/yield). At that time Tallest added role bonuses to the Procurer, Skiff, Retriever, and Mackniaw to bring their effective strip miner count up to 3. He also asked the art team to make a note that next time the Barges and Exhumers were up for a regularly scheduled visual refresh they should be unified at the same number of strip miner hardpoints. That day has now come!
To compliment the art rework we are completing a light pass on the stats and bonuses of these ships and of the strip miner modules themselves. The balance between the mining ships is in a fairly healthy state right now so we're not making any drastic changes to the relative strengths of the different barges and exhumers.
For a bit of insight into the current usage of the top 7 mining ships, here's the breakdown of mining yield by volume (last 90 days including ore, ice, and gas):
- Retriever: 23%
- Mackinaw: 22%
- Hulk: 21%
- Skiff: 14%
- Procurer: 8%
- Covetor: 7%
- Venture: 4%
- Other: 1%
Unsurprisingly the Retriever and Mackinaw are still on top (unchanged from the last time we presented these stats) due to the very high value placed on ore bay capacity among a solid chunk of miners. However we don't feel any need to reduce the power of Retrievers and Mackinaws, as their popularity isn't out of control and other alternatives have their own well-balanced strengths.
The overall mining yields of the Procurer, Skiff, Retriever, and Mackinaw remain unchanged after this pass. The Covetor and Hulk will gain a lowslot which allows some new options and the potential of greater yield (although fittings will be appropriately tight when using three MLUs).
As part of this change we are increasing the yield of all barge-sized strip miners and ice harvesters, which cancels out the changes to hardpoints and bonuses on the Barges and Exhumers. We are also providing a moderate buff to the ORE Strip Miners and ORE Ice Harvesters.
The module changes in full are:
- All Non-ORE Strip Miners: +25% volume mined per cycle
- ORE Strip Miner: +30% volume mined per cycle, -10 CPU
- All Ice Harvesters: -20% cycle time, -20% capacitor use
- ORE Ice Harvester: -16 CPU
And the ship changes:
Procurer: Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses +1 highslot +7 PWG +55 CPU
Skiff: Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses +1 highslot +8 PWG +60 CPU
Retriever: Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses
Mackinaw: Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses
Covetor: Changed skill bonus for the skill Mining Barge: 2% (was 4%) reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration per level New role bonus: 25% reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration and activation cost -1 highslot +1 lowslot -5 PWG -15 CPU
Hulk: Changed skill bonus for the skill Mining Barge: 2% (was 4%) reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration per level New role bonus: 25% reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration and activation cost -1 highslot +1 lowslot -5 PWG -40 CPU
We're very interested in your feedback and welcome you to try out the new stats (and new ship models) on SISI. Thanks!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Anoron Secheh
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp ChaosTheory.
13
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Posted - 2016.08.22 20:55:04 -
[2] - Quote
What about changes to the Rorqual and Orca? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14304
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:01:26 -
[3] - Quote
Anoron Secheh wrote:What about changes to the Rorqual and Orca?
Changes to the Rorqual and Orca are currently planned for November (rather than September for these mining barge changes). We'll be discussing those more as we get a bit closer.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:05:41 -
[4] - Quote
I don't get it.
It looks like you're taking away one of the Mining lasers (so more active switching by a miner to go do what is already an extremely tedious activity in Eve and reducing mining yield by a 1/3rd) - while boosting it by 25% (1/4) in other areas with perhaps more boosting in the low slots? Which comes out to about even except again - anyone mining with a Hulk has to be switching Asteroids more often??
How is this not just make mining even more a boring less lucrative activity (especially with the planned mineral price nerf changes)?
I mean come on ... First you have Citadels that are absolutely useless to defend unless you happen to have a fleet on your beck and call (so much for POS equivelency, especially for wormhole manufacturing), now you screw over mining with more ludicrous hand waving - and silly do nothing upgrades ...
No wonder Eve subscriptions are dropping - and people are jumping ship for more entertaining games like Star Citizen, No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous etc.
Wake the F*** Up.
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2432
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:07:20 -
[5] - Quote
Will the procurer/skiff receive some more cap regen to compensate for their added strip miner/ice harvester?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Anoron Secheh
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp ChaosTheory.
13
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:07:36 -
[6] - Quote
Sweet, thanks! |
Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
25
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:08:01 -
[7] - Quote
I think you've overdone it on the reduction to the Hulk's CPU. I understand you want to make the fit "tight", but you've actually made it impossible.
Also, could you please implement a reduction in Mining Crystal damage for the Hulk? |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
999
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:12:27 -
[8] - Quote
Another look at the new updated visuals for each one, courtesy of the o7 Show.
CCP, roll that beautiful bean footage!
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium
449
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:13:26 -
[9] - Quote
Looks like a pretty neutral change... while giving an increase to active mining. *shrugs* Looks good.
Are you teeing this up to see if it changes mining ship usage in the future, and if not coming back to look at the other ships? If updating art helps make these changes come about; anything on assault frigates?
Thanks for the update. |
Stralisemiai
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:18:19 -
[10] - Quote
Exciting changes - thank you for the information.
Can we have a different skins too.. Quafe ones would be nice. |
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Rob Kaichin
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
159
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:18:46 -
[11] - Quote
I'm guessing the increased tank for the Hulk and Covetor with a DCU in the low is negligible at best? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3906
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:23:33 -
[12] - Quote
I have to second the extra cap for the Skiff. My fit is just barely cap stable now. Add another strip and it will fail.
Morn: If you are using a Skiff, the extra strip means less switching, so for some of us, its a good change. Averaged across all the miners, it balances out. Also, the Hulk yield is not changing: It gets a 25% boost, and the strips get a 25% boost, together that cancels out the loss of a strip.
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Frozen fanfiction
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Autism Intensifies
some random local shitlords
10
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:33:40 -
[13] - Quote
Skiff has same yield as a Mackinaw, same lowslots, +1 midslot, +50m-¦ dronebay, +50% drone damage, and three times? Four times? the EHP of a Mackinaw.
In return, the Mackinaw has that super cool orebay, which is really important, sooo important! (It is, but only if you multibox so many Mackinaws that you can't empty the orebays of your Skiffs or Hulks as fast as they fill up.)
CCPLS. |
Kueyen
Mei-Ha's Light Fleet Coordination Coalition
159
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:42:57 -
[14] - Quote
sorry for singling you out, but... Stralisemiai wrote:Exciting changes - thank you for the information. There is no way I could come up with a mechanical implementation of having 2 stripminers on every barge or exhumer that could be *less* exciting than this. For a few days, something vaguely interesting was visible on Singularity: a 25% role bonus to yield for the Retriever and the Mackinaw. Now, those vessels have NO role bonus. None. Feel free to read that as "this ship has no role".
Stralisemiai wrote:Can we have a different skins too.. Quafe ones would be nice. - Morphite Shine (red and bluish brown)
- Digmaster Blazon (yelloworange and bluegreen brown)
- Paydirt Prospector (blue and brassy brown)
- ORE Developer (already exists now, but redone as white and black)
CCP Fozzie wrote:ORE Strip Miner: +30% volume mined per cycle, -10 CPU The ORE Ice Harvester has a cycle time identical to the T2 Ice Harvester; A T2 Strip Miner with T2 crystals has a yield of 16.667% that of a T1 Stripminer. This new Ore Strip Miner, at 4% better than a T1 Strip Miner, will be going as unused as the old one. Not that any semi-intelligent human being would ever fit any on the death traps that is any non-Skiff/Procurer miner, of course, nor would they turn the latter two into gank magnets by fitting them on those...
The artwork is pretty decent, but these changes... thouroughly disappointing. Go read the ideas of Baltec1 in this thread. I don't agree with all of them, but at least there was the possibility of some excitement.
Until all are free...
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Autism Intensifies
some random local shitlords
10
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:45:25 -
[15] - Quote
Give the ORE Strip Miner the Capital Gun Treat: If it's faction, it can use T2 Ammo.
Then, make it haul 3-5% more than a T2 one. |
Autism Intensifies
some random local shitlords
11
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:47:01 -
[16] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote:How is this not just make mining even more a boring less lucrative activity (especially with the planned mineral price nerf changes)?
Citation needed! |
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
63
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Posted - 2016.08.22 21:56:04 -
[17] - Quote
What miners wants:
- any barge or exhumer ship with utility HI-slot... There is still needed to sacrifice one strip miner :-(
- +5PG for Retri and Macki, its so boring to try fit T2 med shield extender
- ORE BAY capacity optimalization RIGS
- ORE BAY capacity extenders low slot modules
- bigger mining ship (mining BC or BS)
- any mobile structure which can be effectively use at belt by mining ships (current mobile things are not)
- more faction mining things (but not so overpriced as ORE things)
sry for my English :-(
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Abulurd Boniface
Serene Vendetta
174
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:06:03 -
[18] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote:
No wonder Eve subscriptions are dropping - and people are jumping ship for more entertaining games like Star Citizen, No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous etc.
I wouldn't put Star Citizen in the same league as EVE. Also, NMS is 'a tad less' than what the developers promised. And when I say 'a tad less' I mean: it sucks balls. Big ones.
However, I do understand and agree with your concern and these changes are rather baffling.
Any change should reflect a necessary change for the improvement of the dynamic in the system and I don't see how removing one mining pylon on a Hulk is going to make it a better activity.
The last pass was uncomfortable at first but then I saw the sense behind it and those changes were actually quite good. It made the barges something you wanted to have instead of having ship like the Procurer that was essentially worthless.
Now we get a different set of changes, the use of which does not make a lot of sense to me.
CCP Fozzie, friend, why is this happening?
Why did you not do something that would propagate throughout the New Eden demesne in the way minerals were added to the ship-building experience as described, by myself, here: Ore acle
I support innovations, I want to support good innovations. |
XxUltradmbxX
Girl Friends Please Ignore League of Unaligned Master Pilots
7
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:12:16 -
[19] - Quote
why there are no modules for the medium slots (more range or less cap maybe more ore bay?) and why there are so less medium slots on the barges but procure/skiff.
pvp ships have a choice in fitting barges only have the choice on which barge you use. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2813
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:20:42 -
[20] - Quote
Thread full of angry miners, honestly who's shocked.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Nicola Arman
TheDarkBlade
144
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:23:18 -
[21] - Quote
I want to comment. But this is it.
Abulurd Boniface wrote:Morn Hylund wrote:
No wonder Eve subscriptions are dropping - and people are jumping ship for more entertaining games like Star Citizen, No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous etc.
I wouldn't put Star Citizen in the same league as EVE. Also, NMS is 'a tad less' than what the developers promised. And when I say 'a tad less' I mean: it sucks balls. Big ones. However, I do understand and agree with your concern and these changes are rather baffling. Any change should reflect a necessary change for the improvement of the dynamic in the system and I don't see how removing one mining pylon on a Hulk is going to make it a better activity. The last pass was uncomfortable at first but then I saw the sense behind it and those changes were actually quite good. It made the barges something you wanted to have instead of having ship like the Procurer that was essentially worthless. Now we get a different set of changes, the use of which does not make a lot of sense to me. CCP Fozzie, friend, why is this happening? Why did you not do something that would propagate throughout the New Eden demesne in the way minerals were added to the ship-building experience as described, by myself, here: Ore acleI support innovations, I want to support good innovations.
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Echo Mande
72
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:27:30 -
[22] - Quote
I would like more cap on all of them to be honest.
Fittings wise I think that the Skiff and Hulk could also use some more CPU.
While it doesn't 'need' it, I think that giving the Skiff a +1 or +2 warp core stability might be something to look at. It is billed as 'for hostile environments' after all.
Please, pretty please also give the Retriever and Covetor an extra midslot and the grid/CPU to put something useful there. As things stand the only T1 barge I would use or recommend would be the Procurer because it is the only T1 barge that can in fact tank.
Wallet remarks everywhere
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HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station Goonswarm Federation
123
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:37:14 -
[23] - Quote
You need to add more cap to all the bargs and more cpu to the hulk. But now my plans for a procurer army is coming along nicely. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
212
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:48:57 -
[24] - Quote
I like the new design. But why make them equal in part of highslots? I liked that they were unique in this. Is there another reason then just to simplify the design?
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Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
2053
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:04:29 -
[25] - Quote
Interesting tweaks, but the unification of the number of strip miners does have the disadvantage of reducing gameplay variety. Hulk and Covetor pilots really enjoyed the ability to be able to focus longer on three different asteroids, instead of focusing less on two or one asteroid.
Crucially, this change does not adress the main issue, which is that mining gameplay is really, REALLY boring. Sure, this is a slight stats tweak and it would be unreasonable to expect a huge content change, but you should put a mining revamp alongside the hopefully planned PvE revamp.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
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Brinjee Amatin
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:22:28 -
[26] - Quote
Echo Mande wrote: While it doesn't 'need' it, I think that giving the Skiff a +1 or +2 warp core stability might be something to look at. It is billed as 'for hostile environments' after all.
I like this idea. Making it a bit more of a survivalist beast would provide a viable low sec solo mining alternative to Venture ninja-mining (since Prospects are too much of a liability imho), at least to the extent that it would potentially require a bit more than a weekend ganker duo to pin it down, take out the flight of dps drones, and eat through the tank. I also like the idea someone mentioned of a larger mining ship.
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1256
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:39:38 -
[27] - Quote
I skimmed it and thought you were adding neutraliser slots to procurers and skiffs, but I contained my frothy rage and read it again |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:44:19 -
[28] - Quote
I'd imagine other stats will be coming soon, but I'm curious to know what the plans are on volumes and mass, etc. How are those changing. It sounds like the hulls will be quite similar, but functional different.
Again, I know the numbers will come out later, but can you give a general statement about how you plan to adjust these. |
Suitonia
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
702
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:47:39 -
[29] - Quote
NVM I derped
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Cassiel Seraphim
EVE University Ivy League
40
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:51:05 -
[30] - Quote
I'd rather see a shift towards faster cycling mining lasers, considerably faster cycling mining lasers.
So instead of buffing yield per pull, why not reduce cycle time (and cap usage) by the equivalent amount instead, so you mine the same yield/second but with more frequent and weaker pulls? It would make the gaming style less passive and annoying when mining multiple smaller asteroids for example. |
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