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Wildy Trex	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:22:00 - [31] Originally by: Blue Stratos you people dont learn do u you Oh, and an apostrophe in don't, please, and* a capitalised Y on 'you', not to mention a question mark in finishing. :) Back to school you go. kthxbai.
Imechal Ravpeim International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:27:00 - [32] You know... when posting a scam, you shouldn't say that it WORKED on you. You're just egging more people to actually try the scam. Most people know about this one already anyway, so it's not like anyone who already doesn't spend time on the forums won't know about it.
Chewan Mesa Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:31:00 - [33]
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:34:00 - [34] constant at least daily forum reading and particopation can help u win eve quicker. Spot early scamming trends, wayts to make ISK quicker even networking and intel and general discussion
DUSKULL	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:36:00 - [35] well as someone who doesn't spend ages reading the forums I posted it to show how people can be scammed. My intention is to help others. And yes i may be a dumb a.s.s. for falling for it but you live and learn. The intention is to help others unlike some of the undignified useless comments of some of the posters above.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:36:00 - [36] Originally by: Dark Shikari I'm amazed people still fall for this. Why would people think that the buyout "is the price you pay"? No, the starting bid is the minimum price you pay. Maybe ppl who have NEVER used the contract system, or used eBay in RL, or ever been to an auction, or have taken part in an on-line auction... Maybe they assume CCP would not have **ty code in the game to allow things like this to happen, and have no petition for recourse because it would make their game look like if they had to reimburse ppl on a daily basis due to this bug? You know, normal ppl who think others playing this game are not all *****s? Building the homestead
Demarcus Project Gemini	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:40:00 - [37] CCP fully endorses scamming, why do you think they invented freeform contracts. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Cusar Nahum Caldari Caldamar League	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:41:00 - [38] CCP better check EBAY first to learn how Auctions are working! Just senseless to create a "to private" or "to corp" auction with foreighn partys, because it's a recipe for disaster. I really dunno understand, why CCP doesnt feel to be in charge for your loss Duskull. Some words for the attention to lolamos & kankiler (you are not fit to hold a candle to Duskull): "Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to the virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism." The hole part you'll find here Desiderata by Max Ehrmann
Wildy Trex	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Cusar Nahum CCP better check EBAY first to learn how Auctions are working! Just senseless to create a "to private" or "to corp" auction with foreighn partys, because it's a recipe for disaster. I really dunno understand, why CCP doesnt feel to be in charge for your loss Duskull. Some words for the attention to lolamos & kankiler (you are not fit to hold a candle to Duskull): "Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to the virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism." The hole part you'll find here Desiderata by Max Ehrmann People will point out that Eve is not RL, but i agree, it's absolutely no excuse for not having a 'cancel/edit auction' function. I've put up bloody daft auctions on ebay that would have lost me a months wages, but no probs 'cos i can just cancel/edit it :P I would suggest (and have expected) that private corp only auctions should be limited only to members of the same corp, as private auctions to other players are simply not allowed to occur, private auctions to another corp are hardly any different!
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:48:00 - [40] Greed is a sin! If people can buy stuff for 500 mil isk and more then they are such rich that they should not care about the little tax of the contract! And if you want to exchange your stuff against isk why auction?? The proper type of contract would be 'item exchange'. You do not want to auction, the deal was fixed with the guy before. So item exchange instead of auction. I mean, honestly, do people know what an auction is I wonder sometimes.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:00:00 - [41] If you want to sell an item for an agreed sum, do an Item Exchange and set "I will receive" to the sum you want. There is no point in doing an auction if you have a fixed price. I've seen a few of these contracts up this week and been resounding flamed by the scammers for sniping them on the bidding - always rewarding Oh, it's a broad generalism, but I'm always a little wary of anyone whose name involves "lol". -Eva- Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail
Meleira Luan Tiger Trading	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:15:00 - [42] Originally by: Gnulpie If people can buy stuff for 500 mil isk and more then they are such rich that they should not care about the little tax of the contract! There is no tax on contracts. Not any contract. It's part of the scam to make it appear as if there was to promote this method of selling. Direct Trade or Item Exchange, Private/Corp auctions should just be removed from the game they serve no purpose except as a scamming platform.
Fasin	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:15:00 - [43] So thats a private auction to one person? with no start bid and a buyout of X isk. so the scammer can bit anything between 1 and 500 mill isk? Have I got that right?
Wildy Trex	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Fasin So thats a private auction to one person? with no start bid and a buyout of X isk. so the scammer can bit anything between 1 and 500 mill isk? Have I got that right? yep, that's how it works.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:31:00 - [45] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Dark Shikari I'm amazed people still fall for this. Why would people think that the buyout "is the price you pay"? No, the starting bid is the minimum price you pay. Maybe ppl who have NEVER used the contract system, or used eBay in RL, or ever been to an auction, or have taken part in an on-line auction... Maybe they assume CCP would not have **ty code in the game to allow things like this to happen, and have no petition for recourse because it would make their game look like if they had to reimburse ppl on a daily basis due to this bug? You know, normal ppl who think others playing this game are not all *****s? If someone has no idea how to use auctions, why are they using in-game auctions? --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:31:00 - [46] If CCP acknowleges this as a bug with contract but not as an exploit then I'm confused. For example a while back there was a problem with, Wasp drones was it?, that made them uber. It was a bug and ccp clearly said that anyone caught using them in PvP after their announcement would be punished. They have the same ability to do it on this occasion if they wanted to. Contracts is getting some love in the upcoming patch, but I dont know if this has been adressed at all
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:40:00 - [47] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 15/03/2007 12:44:12 This scam only works on dirty immoral, cheating exploiters, so why bother? No honest person could ever fall for this scam: The reason is simple. The "scammer" convinces the greedy rich person to try an exploit to avoid contract taxes, and therefor cheat. Why else would a normal person set a restricted auction? Another reason is the "claim everywhere" trick, which is an exploit as well. Too bad those exploits are not needed, and you can already set and claim private contracts from anywhere with no tax. So for all those whining about CCPs stance on "exploits". Lets ban those damn cheaters. Get rid of people falling for auction scams. By the way, i personally think that those scams are good for humanity, because it allows people to see something very important for themselves. When a random stranger comes up to you and says "give me your money." or "guard that concentration camp over here", instead of a "get lost", you indeed do hear "yes, leader" sometimes. Better see that first in a game then RL, no? Originally by: Fenlaw If CCP acknowleges this as a bug with contract but not as an exploit then I'm confused. Its not a "bug", as everything is working exactly as it should. However, for some reason i dont understand myself, people are extremely stupid and fall for this. All those petitions, forum whines etc are eating up ressources, so the "fix" is to prevent restricted auctions to corporations outside of your own alliance. In case you are wondering: its perfectly reasonable to include restricted auctions: Lets say you make a deal to supply a corp like Goonswarm with cheap equipment in exchange for space / help / funny bee pics. Its not the devs fault when people use tools that have been intended for totally different things. For example, freeform contracts clearly warn you that they are used to scam (and only should be used in situations of mutual trust, ie inter/intra corp management etc). Yet people whine about freeform scams.
Detrol Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Fenlaw Contracts is getting some love in the upcoming patch, but I dont know if this has been adressed at all Yes this exact issue is addressed. The upcoming change will be that you can only create a private auction to your own corp or to your own alliance. This keeps open the possibilities to have a 'corp only' auction or 'alliance only' while it's considered by CCP that if a scammer scams one of his own alliance or corp, that the alliance/Corp will take the necessary actions to punish him. So, it will still be possible to scam someone using this technique but it will be someone from your own corp or alliance.
Maximillian Power Minmatar The Dark Protectorate	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Fenlaw If CCP acknowleges this as a bug with contract but not as an exploit then I'm confused. For example a while back there was a problem with, Wasp drones was it?, that made them uber. It was a bug and ccp clearly said that anyone caught using them in PvP after their announcement would be punished. They have the same ability to do it on this occasion if they wanted to. Contracts is getting some love in the upcoming patch, but I dont know if this has been adressed at all The problem is the person who scams does so by talking the person into creating a different auction. This is social engineering and can't be punished tbh. The fact is the scammer does the scam by convincing the scammed individual to create a contract that makes no sense. The trick is a confidence trick - not an exploitation of a game mechanic. The premise is: I want your stuff - but that payment mechanism causes me to pay more in "Tax" - Let's beat the system and save the "Tax" by doing it this different way.... After all - I'm spending a lot ... I just want to save a few quid. The mechanic could be changed to: I want your stuff - but that payment mechanism causes me to pay more in "Tax" - you set up an item exchange and I'll send the rest of the ISK after ... After all - I'm spending a lot ... I just want to save a few quid. Actually I'll send you 100 million first to show you how trustworthy I am. Most of the same people will fall for both. It is not about the mechanic - It is about the sales pitch. I don't do it myself - cause I play for the pew pew - but its not that hard. :P The mechanic is a bit lame though. -------------------------------- So....
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Argenton SayversBy the way, i personally think that those scams are good for humanity, because it allows people to see something very important for themselves. When a random stranger comes up to you and says "give me your money." or "guard that concentration camp over here", instead of a "get lost", you indeed do hear "yes, leader" sometimes. Better see that first in a game then RL, no? [/quote While I agree on parts of what you write, I do not agree with this. Thats like saying that anyone thats successfully running a corporation in eve could run a fortune 500 company, or that alliance leaders would be natural generals and rebelion leaders at time of war. There is definitly not a 1 to 1 correlation with your RL and ingame persona in the overwhelming majority of time, far from it (thats not to say theres aren't times when there are).
Fenlaw	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Maximillian Power The problem is the person who scams does so by talking the person into creating a different auction. This is social engineering and can't be punished tbh. The fact is the scammer does the scam by convincing the scammed individual to create a contract that makes no sense. The trick is a confidence trick - not an exploitation of a game mechanic. I was refering to another posters claim that it's an acknowledged bug. I agree that it's impossible to protect everyone from social engineering, heck I wouldn't want EVE to be fool proof because social engineering is used in game by just about everybody and just not for scamming. It's all about finding a balance.
Maximillian Power Minmatar The Dark Protectorate	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:05:00 - [52] Originally by: Fenlaw I was refering to another posters claim that it's an acknowledged bug. I agree that it's impossible to protect everyone from social engineering, heck I wouldn't want EVE to be fool proof because social engineering is used in game by just about everybody and just not for scamming. It's all about finding a balance. True - I was just pointing out that although the concept of creating a private auction to another corp might seem odd - The fact that someone doesn't think about the consequence of that is not related. You are quite correct about balance - and if it is a bug - then it should be fixed. -------------------------------- So....
Baleorg Gallente Guys of Sarcasm	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Wildy Trex Back to school you go. kthxbai. is it not it kthxbye ? :-P BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:15:00 - [54] Easiest way to not get scammed... Is to just shoot everyone you see...
Illyria Ambri Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:41:00 - [55] Is the coding crappy enough to allow a higher minamum bid then the buy out price? o.O ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom. "Will i
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:54:00 - [56] Rabble rabble rabble, read and written it all before, only person who is at fault is the OP, scammer may be a nice guy in RL, CCP aren't fixing it because it's broken they're fixing it because the bar is simply too high there are still too many stupid people playing the game so it's either cull the playerbase or make it retard proof, no it's not an exploit, if you don't know how auctions work don't trade 500M your first time, no it's not a quirk of Eve same restrictions apply in real life.. etc etc etc WALL OF TEXT! - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:07:00 - [57] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/03/2007 16:04:02 Quote: if you don't know how auctions work don't trade 500M your first time And what, not get scammed and think the system works fine??? It's broken, another programming oversight... CCP should fix it already... Buyout = reserve, you don't meet that, you don't get the item... It's bad coding and you all know it... You don't see ppl bidding $1 on an eBay auction for $1000 buy it now price & reserve and getting it for $1 now do ya? Get real, that is not how auctions work, that is how a badly coded auction system in an MMO works because it's broken... Building the homestead
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:43:00 - [58] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/03/2007 16:04:02 Quote: if you don't know how auctions work don't trade 500M your first time And what, not get scammed and think the system works fine??? It's broken, another programming oversight... CCP should fix it already... Buyout = reserve, you don't meet that, you don't get the item... It's bad coding and you all know it... You don't see ppl bidding $1 on an eBay auction for $1000 buy it now price & reserve and getting it for $1 now do ya? Get real, that is not how auctions work, that is how a badly coded auction system in an MMO works because it's broken... The buyout is the reserve? I'm missing something here, I thought there was no reserve, just a minimum and a buyout? - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:48:00 - [59] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/03/2007 16:47:00 Quote: The buyout is the reserve? I'm missing something here, I thought there was no reserve, just a minimum and a buyout? Just like any real auction, the buy it now price is your reserve until you deem otherwise... Once someone bids, the buyout price goes away, and the reserve is the minimum... If the DEV's had any ******* clue at all, when you entered the buyout price, by default that would become your reserve until you retype in that box whatever you want as a price to part with that item... If you want that price to be 1 ISK, you may certainly enter it... Minimum bid if for starting and incrementation, not the reserve... Building the homestead
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:50:00 - [60] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/03/2007 16:45:05 Quote: The buyout is the reserve? I'm missing something here, I thought there was no reserve, just a minimum and a buyout? Just like any real auction, the buy it now price is your reserve until you deem otherwise... Once someone bids, the buyout price goes away, and the reserve is the minimum... If the DEV's had any ******* clue at all, when you entered the buyout price, by default that would become your reserve until you retype in that box whatever you want as a price to part with that item... So you put up an auction where the minimum valid bid is the same as the maximum valid bid? - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.

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