EVE Search - Stop high sec ganking/pve only option

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Stop high sec ganking/pve only option

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.03 03:54:25 - [1] - Quote I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls. If a new player can't do anything in either place, then even going free to play is not going to stop the bleed of players. The community is not policing itself as originally intended. If we're going to go free to play, why not add a pve only option finally. Safety could be expanded to make it so that players with a green safety can't be locked by other players not at war with them. This might be one of the best things if implemented to bring players back. Could make it a subscription only option and make it even more worth it to subscribe to the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave 2972	Posted - 2016.09.03 05:18:31 - [2] - Quote Quote: I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. then you don't understand eve go back and read the FAQ no where in eve is safe Citadel worm hole tax
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 2690	Posted - 2016.09.03 05:25:17 - [3] - Quote As mostly an explorer and industrialist: no. Destruction and lack of safety are integral to the game. If that means we lose a player here and there, so be it.
Dolorous Tremmens Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation 178	Posted - 2016.09.03 05:55:23 - [4] - Quote The community does police itself. You are expected to be able to defend yourself, or be savvy enough to get away. If this is not acceptable the options are to have friends or alies, possibly hirelings to help save you, or find an alternate less dangerous profession. If you are mining you can buy protection in the form of not being attacked by certain groups. Now you mention the f2p, that is to bring more people in to witness and take part in mindless violence, or get savvy enough to enjoy the escape and the chase. It is the taste of real risk that sells the game. The free to play aspect is really just an extended trial to help people understand this. Don't risk more than you can afford to lose. Get Boned, reclone. Learn from mistakes and possibly observe and learn from others mistakes. Unlike other games, the playing of the eve and interacting with thousands of people is the endgame, the whole point, the reason it is a single shard world. Eve is truely the only MMORPG on the market today, because your losses can affect hundreds or thousands of other people. Just by them seeing you fail miserably, poach things from your wreck, buy the loot poached, and avoid having such things happen to them. They learned, or did not, and escaped the same fate because of what the baddies were doing it to you at the time they were passing through. You should feel special and know that as a paying customer in any level of security space: YOU are content. YOU are the game. YOU will convince people to be paying customers so they can do and be the same. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2660	Posted - 2016.09.03 05:58:45 - [5] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. And I see no reason why any player should be immune from the other players and/or be able to isolate themselves from the sandbox given that Eve Online is a full-time, PvP sandbox game. This seems like a case of a customer ordering something they don't like at a restaurant, rather than a problem with the restaurant itself. If you don't want to be shot at, then don't play a full-time, single universe spaceship shooting game. If you do like this concept and the benefits of being part of a living, breathing, interconnected universe but just are having problems surviving alongside the other players, then ask for help in the New Player's or Missioning section these forums. You'll find it more fruitful than proposing game-breaking "solutions" that run counter to the core design of the game and that re-write the rules of the game in your favour. Why Do They Gank?
Sitting Bull Lakota Ministry of War Amarr Empire 144	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:02:47 - [6] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: The community is not policing itself as intended. Doesn't that mean this is your fault? Do you know I never actually get tired of these threads?
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:06:00 - [7] - Quote I actually have a good understanding of the game. The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed. What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood. I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 817	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:25:03 - [8] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls. usually don't estalk....but what are your ealier losses as all I see on current is you dying a lot in delve. In an npc corp so....if you are ninjya ratting/mining thats on you for starters. Ninjya pve has a downside....you can die sometimes. Or if a renter crew....thats on you as wel. Rent does not cover system security, thats on your crew. And you may want to try something harder to find for 0.0 work. Todays eve lesson....how to be hard to probe. Great for ninjya ratting, or actually being in a corp and someone sneaks into system not blue. Get your sig radius to sig strength ratio as low as you can. Lower 1's prober has to be max skill, running virtues, running sisters gear in maxed CO. This is not dead common. Not doing this you may be the 100% lock they never get. Example: my tengu, hg talons, dissolution seq sub (at 5). sensor skill at 5, sebo II (eecm) and/or sig amp II. Gets you real low. 2nd tip is learn to play with wh's. Some don't look for these. So they hump gates. And its the wh you enter and leave through to avoid bubbles that may be up. edit: saw miner rant.....stop mining, run missions. It pays better anyway.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2660	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:28:59 - [9] - Quote You don't seem to have presented any problem that you are trying to solve other than you are upset over being outplayed and losing 6 Billion ISK to other players. New players don't fly 6B ISK ships. They are rarely, if ever, ganked while missioning because there is no profit it in. Which is a shame really as CCP says that those that get ganked or otherwise explode are more likely to stay playing the game. Rich and careless veterans like yourself do get ganked from time-to-time however, as intended by the game designers. Suicide ganking is not a loophole. It is not a mistake, oversight or unintended side-effect CCP has left in the game these 13 years. It is deliberate and intended criminal gameplay put in the game so that nowhere is 100% safe. CCP thinks this makes for a more interesting and engaging game and I happen to agree with them. Highsec has never been safer. If you are just complaining that it isn't 'safesec' instead of 'high security space', well I don't know what to tell you. There are many issues with allowing veterans a perfectly safe space to grind resources yet influence the greater game and economy that prevent your "idea" from ever being implemented. Your 'safesec' would have to have next to no income generating potential to not impact in the rest of the game, and thus would sit empty and unused by everyone. In any case, this carebear moaning for safety has gone on since the servers went live so many years ago making this thread completely and utterly redundant. If you really do understand the game but don't like the core central concept, I respectfully suggest your time might be better spent finding something else to play rather than lobbying for such an ancient game to completely reinvent itself to suit your whims. Why Do They Gank?
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:37:15 - [10] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: Bubba Freedom wrote: I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls. usually don't estalk....but what are your ealier losses as all I see on current is you dying a lot in delve. In an npc corp so....if you are ninjya ratting/mining thats on you for starters. Ninjya pve has a downside....you can die sometimes. Or if a renter crew....thats on you as wel. Rent does not cover system security, thats on your crew. And you may want to try something harder to find for 0.0 work. Todays eve lesson....how to be hard to probe. Great for ninjya ratting, or actually being in a corp and someone sneaks into system not blue. Get your sig radius to sig strength ratio as low as you can. Lower 1's prober has to be max skill, running virtues, running sisters gear in maxed CO. This is not dead common. Not doing this you may be the 100% lock they never get. Example: my tengu, hg talons, dissolution seq sub (at 5). sensor skill at 5, sebo II (eecm) and/or sig amp II. Gets you real low. 2nd tip is learn to play with wh's. Some don't look for these. So they hump gates. And its the wh you enter and leave through to avoid bubbles that may be up. edit: saw miner rant.....stop mining, run missions. It pays better anyway. you're looking at a two day old character that replaced one that couldn't't get out of pita due to station camps. Hence the reason for this. It really is time to quit saying it's the player's fault, and look at the culture. Should there be pvp in delve, yes, is there really a reason to shoot an NPC corp player out there looking for somewhere to mission/rat/mine and try to be a part of the content, no. I had nothing to do with any corp, and if people would have left me be, which by the way when I started playing was what most corps did, I would have done what most NBC players did back then, a little mining, missioning, and production to keep the players that wanted to shoot at each other in rounds and missiles to do it with.

Sitting Bull Lakota Ministry of War Amarr Empire 144	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:38:11 - [11] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: I actually have a good understanding of the game. The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed. What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood. I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand. Yes, let's talk about the welfare of the community. What you claim to want to do is what I define as carebearing. You want to run your missions, your incursions, your DED sites, your mining, etc. in peace without any concern for pvp. What you fail to acknowledge is that you, Mr. Carebear, in your 6 billion isk worth of pve vehicles have taken theses resource and isk faucets in highsec, cranked them to full on and ripped the knobs off. You are pouring billions upon billions of isk into an already engorged economy. Your mtus, your salvagers, your strip miners are pouring tons upon tons of resources into an already glutted market. Do you know what this does to the value of those isk and resources? Do you? It destroys it. Now you need to do even more missioning, even more mining, to reach your isk goal. That goal? Plex. It always is. You just want to be left alone so you can "play for free." In your quest to dodge the subscription fee, you wreak terrible havoc on the economy. New players? God help them, their lvl 1 and 2 missions, their ventures, and their brief soujorns into exploration in Magnates and the like can barely yield the isk and resources they need to produce to make any kind of profit from pve. When you, Mr. Carebear, complain of how bad the "bullies" are, you completely overlook the much more significamt damage that you are doing to the new player experience. What I hear in New Player Help is the frustration of quickly burning out new players desparate to try to find some kind of means of making isk so they can take part in the rest of the game. The rest of the game that you claim to believe is so integral to the health of EvE. They must work harder and harder to make a pittance while you and your ilk, Mr. Carebear, keep chasing the value of every pve reward further and further into the ground. No, Mr. Carebear, you should be ashamed. The damage you do to the community is appalling. The worst part? Your victims are the new players you claim are being chased away.
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:47:53 - [12] - Quote That doesn't't excuse the fact that carebears are needed to keep this game running. Instead of insulting the ones that are actually carebears, keep in mind, while I didn't do much damage 20 vs 1, I did shoot back. So before you call someone a carebears consider the situation. That was unwinnable. Probably not really avoidable considering I did not have a good gate runner, and not what I'm talking about. I'm addressing the general culture of forget the new guy, he'll learn or quit. They are quitting in droves, along with older players that can't see the point anymore. The carebears you referred to supply the cheap loot market you use to get metal gear to kill them, so is it so hard to give them a break/tolerate them for their usefulness to the game as a whole?
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.03 06:53:32 - [13] - Quote Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: Bubba Freedom wrote: I actually have a good understanding of the game. The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed. What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood. I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand. Yes, let's talk about the welfare of the community. What you claim to want to do is what I define as carebearing. You want to run your missions, your incursions, your DED sites, your mining, etc. in peace without any concern for pvp. What you fail to acknowledge is that you, Mr. Carebear, in your 6 billion isk worth of pve vehicles have taken these resource and isk faucets in highsec, cranked them to full on and ripped the knobs off. You are pouring billions upon billions of isk into an already engorged economy. Your mtus, your salvagers, your strip miners are pouring tons upon tons of resources into an already glutted market. Do you know what this does to the value of those isk and resources? Do you? It destroys it. Now you need to do even more missioning, even more mining, to reach your isk goal. That goal? Plex. It always is. You just want to be left alone so you can "play for free." In your quest to dodge the subscription fee, you wreak terrible havoc on the economy. New players? God help them, their lvl 1 and 2 missions, their ventures, and their brief soujorns into exploration in Magnates and the like can barely yield the isk and resources they need to produce to make any kind of profit from pve. When you, Mr. Carebear, complain of how bad the "bullies" are, you completely overlook the much more significamt damage that you are doing to the new player experience. What I hear in New Player Help is the frustration of quickly burning out new players desparate to try to find some kind of means of making isk so they can take part in the rest of the game. The rest of the game that you claim to believe is so integral to the health of EvE. They must work harder and harder to make a pittance while you and your ilk, Mr. Carebear, keep chasing the value of every pve reward further and further into the ground. No, Mr. Carebear, you should be ashamed. The damage you do to the community is appalling. The worst part? Your victims are the new players you claim are being chased away. Actually I'm a cash player, and minus rolling into low/null looking for a home, I've spent hours with new players getting them ships, running missions with them, and babysitting their ventures in high sec so they can mine in relative peace. So you really can't say I'm damaging the community by suggesting that there be a way to free up more players to do that kind of mentoring. No matter yow much you want to troll me, can you say you're doing that much good? Or do you sit in null and wait for a new player to want to try it and kill them? Which of us does more damage to the community there?
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2759	Posted - 2016.09.03 07:47:30 - [14] - Quote Sorry, but you are not a new player and you don't speak for the new players if you lose 6bil ISK in Highsec. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.03 07:57:47 - [15] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Sorry, but you are not a new player and you don't speak for the new players if you lose 6bil ISK in Highsec. Actually I can as a valid general high sec player as well as a person trying to improve game play for all high sec, there needs to be a serious discussion about this instead of trolling someone bringing up a legitimate point. No the account Isn't new by a long shot, however having spent quite a bit of time since coming back with new players that have been nearly killed out of game within 48 hours of starting, I do have grounds to bring this up. As I said before, if you can't stay on topic or just want to troll, please bug off. It tends to get threads like this locked, and this would be a good chance to use forums for what we should be using them for. Average player age last I checked was about 25 years old, let's have a mature conversation here.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2760	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:15:57 - [16] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Sorry, but you are not a new player and you don't speak for the new players if you lose 6bil ISK in Highsec. Actually I can as a valid general high sec player as well as a person trying to improve game play for all high sec, there needs to be a serious discussion about this instead of trolling someone bringing up a legitimate point. No the account Isn't new by a long shot, however having spent quite a bit of time since coming back with new players that have been nearly killed out of game within 48 hours of starting, I do have grounds to bring this up. As I said before, if you can't stay on topic or just want to troll, please bug off. It tends to get threads like this locked, and this would be a good chance to use forums for what we should be using them for. Average player age last I checked was about 25 years old, let's have a mature conversation here. Ok, then let's have this discussion. CCP actually looked into this and they analysed the reason new players left for ~80'000 players. They assumed like you that ganking drives players away, but what they found was the complete contrary. The more isolated a player was the more likely he was to quit the game and never sub. Players who where on the receiving end of non consensual PvP where the most likely to stick with the game. Here is the video where CCP Rise explains everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y So your idea would actually achieve the complete opposite of what you try to do and it is not really hard to understand why. Most new players come to EVE because they read the fantastic stories about EVE and hope to one day be part of it. They don't come to EVE to mine endlessly or to grind the same mission in complete safety without consequences. By isolating them from the sandbox you make the game more boring from them. If you want to help with player retention then make sure you help them to get out there to null/low/wh and don't let them mine or run missions in Highsec. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26751	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:24:04 - [17] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: I actually have a good understanding of the game. Obviously not, you appear to think that hisec is the equivalent of a PvE server; it isn't. Quote: The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed. Shooting someone because you can is PvP, hisec is not exempt from it; If anybody should be ashamed it's people like you that fail to understand that. Quote: What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood. No, what you're suggesting is that CCP change the mechanics to what you think they should be, by removing the things that you see as exploits and loopholes. Quote: I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand. A player can mine and mission without interference in hisec, if they put some effort into being responsible for their own safety; despite appearances CCP are not in the business of doing it for them. Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:28:26 - [18] - Quote That "study" you refer too is already generally agreed by most of the player base to be toilet water, not to mention you can't get a new player out to null and have them be productive. We are killing off our player base either way you look at it. Ganking in high sec is pretty much the worst you can do. When you complain about markets and lack of hauling, or sell prices being too high and buys too low, that's all because you or your friends killed off the last few shipments of that item someone was hauling. You and the rest of your corp/alliance are one of the main reasons for the issues we have right now. Your lack of control and common sense is duly noted as low. The fact is I'm not being counter productive as the option would still exist by expanding the safety function. Heck for all I care make it red or green, put a 24 hour timer on going red and make it so you can shoot all red in high sec. But then again that puts code at a little disadvantage doesn't it because they can't hide behind concord till they find an easy kill.
Sitting Bull Lakota Ministry of War Amarr Empire 145	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:31:02 - [19] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: No matter yow much you want to troll me, can you say you're doing that much good? Or do you sit in null and wait for a new player to want to try it and kill them? Which of us does more damage to the community there? Troll you, sir? Perish the thought! There is not but honest and well intentioned shiptoasting in threads of this nature! This is indeed, a rarely discussed topic, you see. To your question, doesn't flying a protective ship for a new player as they mine peacefully in a venture in fact cause them to take a damaged view of the greater game? Is it not true that the greatest ability of the capsuleer is his fortitude and indomitable nature? Does not the the bear who cares cause damage to the fragile and impressionable mind of the newbro when he teaches him to fear risk rather than take risk? Here or there or anywhere it is you, Mr. Bear. Your love of isk. Your detest of risk. Your maddening desire to whisk away from the jaws of calamity The newbro whom you Have bade bid adieu To those happy few stories depicting the "rest of EvE" You've turned his gaze from wars and large fleets To ores and spreadsheets And caused him at length to wonder as he tore rocks asunder What about this game looked fun in the first place?
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:39:39 - [20] - Quote First off, not a carebears, last few losses have been running out in null and getting blooped. I don't care how much isk I have as long as I can replace the fit II'm.flying twice over, and have been known to hand fitted ships to new players. The problem is they usually Don't even get space dust on them lately before a troll corp, read "pirate", if it soothes your ego blips them out of game again. So not only are your arguments so far without merit, but quite opposite of how I play. I left the last corp that tried to get me to use spreadsheets.

Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2765	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:42:07 - [21] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: That "study" you refer too is already generally agreed by most of the player base to be toilet water, not to mention you can't get a new player out to null and have them be productive. The biggest alliances currently in nullsec in EVE are composed of only new players. Yes they are very effective and valuable players and they actually experience the game for what it is, a competitive massive multiplayer sandbox game. You simply oppose this study because it does not fit into your concept about your constructed problem. You oppose a study with a sample size of 80'000 players with your gut feelings and think you know better. You sir are a troll and this thread is reported for redundancy and trolling. Have a nice day the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:49:55 - [22] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Bubba Freedom wrote: That "study" you refer too is already generally agreed by most of the player base to be toilet water, not to mention you can't get a new player out to null and have them be productive. The biggest alliances currently in nullsec in EVE are composed of only new players. Yes they are very effective and valuable players and they actually experience the game for what it is, a competitive massive multiplayer sandbox game. You simply oppose this study because it does not fit into your concept about your constructed problem. You oppose a study with a sample size of 80'000 players with your gut feelings and think you know better. You sir are a troll and this thread is reported for redundancy and trolling. Have a nice day The alliance you refer to is composed of alts, however yes it is effective. Thread is not redundant, and the only one that has been trolled so far is me, which means it's made someone guilty. Until people get maturity and there is a solution that actually works, threads like this will continue to be started. Most of what I suggested Isn't even my original idea, I just drew the short straw to get to propose it. I Don't mind being trolled by one of the scum of eve, it actually doesn't bother me at all.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26754	Posted - 2016.09.03 08:51:59 - [23] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: First off, not a carebears, last few losses have been running out in null and getting blooped. I don't care how much isk I have as long as I can replace the fit II'm.flying twice over, and have been known to hand fitted ships to new players. The problem is they usually Don't even get space dust on them lately before a troll corp, read "pirate", if it soothes your ego blips them out of game again. So not only are your arguments so far without merit, but quite opposite of how I play. I left the last corp that tried to get me to use spreadsheets. Carebear is an attitude, it's not about where you live or what you do, as such it's not a play style. Your whole attitude smacks of carebearism. Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 09:01:53 - [24] - Quote Oh I have no problem admitting I carebear in high most of the time, I also love going out and looking for a fight solo, or when we can get enough together in scope that have ships to do so, which there haven't been many of us at a time that can. Skill wise if I could find a null corp that didn't spend more time arguing than playing I'd stay out there. That or if neutrality would be respected like it used to be. There actually used to be a time when you could live fairly comfortably in null, but sadly the level of respect players have for each other has diminished since then. A lot of us that people call carebears now suicided out of null and made new characters. I've flown with quite a few of them recently. It's been nice. So yes I wear my rainbow proud when I'm in high and shoot what I can in low. There's nothing wrong with that.
Solecist Project 32851	Posted - 2016.09.03 09:04:27 - [25] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: That doesn't't excuse the fact that carebears are needed to keep this game running. No. If carebears ran this game ... ... the game would be dead by now or a#the forums and reddit would be filled with horrible people like yourself. Carebears are a loud, screaming minority and no one wants you or needs you around. Just like SJW, BLM and CODE. snickers And to counter the carebear-logic: No. One. Needs. Carebears. Excluding the companies which write games to milk you easy minded folks out of your money, of course. The common mistake carebears make, exposing their weird minds, is the idea that people only do either/or. Reality: Carebears only PvE, never PvP. Normal people do PvE and PvP. No one needs you. Enjoy the door hitting your rear end on your way out. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Caleb Seremshur Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two 848	Posted - 2016.09.03 09:09:37 - [26] - Quote Can't you just wait for this game to go F2P you'll get 10,000 nerds making threads like this per day. Should make alpha accounts force to watch a video explaining to them they can be killed anywhere in this game.
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 09:12:30 - [27] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Bubba Freedom wrote: That doesn't't excuse the fact that carebears are needed to keep this game running. No. If carebears ran this game ... ... the game would be dead by now or a#the forums and reddit would be filled with horrible people like yourself. Carebears are a loud, screaming minority and no one wants you or needs you around. Just like SJW, BLM and CODE. snickers And to counter the carebear-logic: No. One. Needs. Carebears. Excluding the companies which write games to milk you easy minded folks out of your money, of course. The common mistake carebears make, exposing their weird minds, is the idea that people only do either/or. Reality: Carebears only PvE, never PvP. Normal people do PvE and PvP. No one needs you. Enjoy the door hitting your rear end on your way out. Obviously didn't read my other posts. Love how you all cherry pick to troll. Actually carebears as you refer to them are a growing minority that pay the bills and provide the nessecary industry to keep game going. You aren't able to keep up from pvp drops alone, at least if the people you are shooting are smart, therefore even yes you my dear have a use for carebears somewhere in there to make ammo/modules/ships that you use.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2766	Posted - 2016.09.03 09:22:19 - [28] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Carebears are a loud, screaming minority and no one wants you or needs you around. Just like SJW, BLM and CODE. snickers /me smacks Sol (ingame) mars the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 09:38:16 - [29] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Carebears are a loud, screaming minority and no one wants you or needs you around. Just like SJW, BLM and CODE. snickers /me smacks Sol (ingame) mars Agree. There would be no need for discussion if above mentioned groups were the minority. Mind you this discussion IS NOT nor has it ever been about null/low sec mechanics. I love those. However that said, leave the sandbox mentaljty out there, really it's a respect the players around you. If you see me in low or null, feel free to engage, I can usually afford it, and usually am looking for it. Flew a shuttle out earlier trying to prove to a new guy you could find and fit a ship in null, picked an area with no accessable market, thanks goonswarm, and proved myself wrong lol. Local corp helped me out. Probably repay it tomarrow or next day when I get isk back, and here in a few days go looking for a fight again. High sec mechanics are broken. Everything I suggested at the top was a result of disscussions with various players over about the last month. As we can't seem to set egos aside, or have open minds, I once again see us missing anopportunity to change things for the better and will be requesting this thread be locked at a moderator's convienence.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4722	Posted - 2016.09.03 10:23:25 - [30] - Quote Taking away core parts of the game's mechanics doesn't make anything better though?

Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 11:03:49 - [31] - Quote It isn't taking a core part out where it really matters, other than to people that get thier kicks shooting people without a chance of fighting back. When I go to low I expect a fight. Usually I go there either to fight or to mine and mess with the people in there. Usually end up ticking them off and getting the exit camped lol. However, it's called high sec for a reason. CCP initially thought groups like code wouldn't stay long because players would kill them off. They use the response time loophole now to go in kill a 30 million isk miner, or pile a billion isk frieghter, or kill mission runners that are half dead coming back, and get away with it. The system broke somewhere along the way to where that works. I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's being abused in a way that it was never meant for. When something is abused to the degree that it is now, maybe we should have a constructive rethink of the system in general. As players we could band together and kill them out of game (my personal preference), or adjust the mechanic to make it not possible to improve player retention. Looking at people that quit within two weeks is the ultimate in numbers fixing to get the result CCP wanted to say ganking was not an issue. I hate to say it, but going f2p will not fix the player shortage unless the high sec pvp mechanics are also adjusted. Ya it sucks, I love suicide ganking bounties. Probably not going to be successful at it for a bit, but still fun. They have a price on them and should expect it to happen lol. However I'm willing to not do it if it improves overall gameplay.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4722	Posted - 2016.09.03 11:42:18 - [32] - Quote You know concord used to be tankable, right? Ganking has eaten nerf after nerf after nerf. When was the last time it was actually buffed? Why should you be able to fly 100bil in shiny toys in a completely untanked freighter, on autopilot, while you're AFK and not face any kind of consequence for your actions? Why should I be able to use my out of corp alt to haul that 100bil from Jita to where my JF lives, and just jump to Delve? What makes you think the people who supposedly quit after getting ganked were ever actually going to stick around in the first place? This is a full loot PVP game. If they can't handle being killed in a pvp game, they aren't going to keep playing the pvp game for very long, are they. The way to keep people in the game is to engage with them. To encourage them to interact with other players, to join player corps, and, y'know, play the game. Wrapping them in cotton wool doesn't exactly help with that. Removing highsec pvp doesn't help with that. Encouraging them to LEAVE highsec does, incidentally. Ganking is easy to avoid if you can be bothered to put in even the slightest little bit of effort. Red frog has what, a 95% success rate?
Tragot Gomndor Khanid's Damnation 82	Posted - 2016.09.03 11:49:08 - [33] - Quote OMG so many walls of text, over the same stuff. Ganking is completly FINE. There is no issue. NONONONONONO TO CAPS IN HIGHSEC NO
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3490	Posted - 2016.09.03 11:49:11 - [34] - Quote It's a pvp sandbox. You can be shot any where any time and the game was doing better when that was easier to do. As others have said, carebear is not an activity, its an attitude where you think you should be allowed to be safe in a game that's deliberately designed to be un-safe. I pve and do industry, a lot, but i appreciate and enjoy the risk this game provides, even in hi-sec. You think ganking is killing the game but a lot of time was spent trying to validate that 'myth' and it turned out the opposite was true. What makes you think CCP though gankers wouldn't stick around? You're obvioulsy very new to eve or have been living under a rock. Non-consensual pvp is a core part of eve whether you like it or not. The game is designed around it and the allowance of ganking is very deliberate. Some of your posts have even already been answered by devs: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4958992#post4958992 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4964171#post4964171 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4964192#post4964192 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6341716#post6341716 EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.03 11:58:12 - [35] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: It's a pvp sandbox. You can be shot any where any time and the game was doing better when that was easier to do. As others have said, carebear is not an activity, its an attitude where you think you should be allowed to be safe in a game that's deliberately designed to be un-safe. I pve and do industry, a lot, but i appreciate and enjoy the risk this game provides, even in hi-sec. You think ganking is killing the game but a lot of time was spent trying to validate that 'myth' and it turned out the opposite was true. What makes you think CCP though gankers wouldn't stick around? You're obvioulsy very new to eve or have been living under a rock. Non-consensual pvp is a core part of eve whether you like it or not. The game is designed around it and the allowance of ganking is very deliberate. Some of your posts have even already been answered by devs: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4958992#post4958992 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4964171#post4964171 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4964192#post4964192 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6341716#post6341716 You're using posts from two years ago, when granted it was a rarity, dotlan will tell you however it's common enough now to be an actual issue worth revisiting. Be it a shift in player ideals (not likely) or something the devs finally do, it needs to be addressed in current form. Doing surveys of players just starting and then quitting before they really get into it is useless to tell why the amount of established players are leaving. By the way auto routing frieghters already has time consequences. I wouldn't autoroute one if it was safe, it would take too long.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3491	Posted - 2016.09.03 12:13:51 - [36] - Quote That survey is already done now, but for all players. 2 years is not a long time in this game and its development. It also WAS NOT rare to be ganked two years ago it was actually closer to when code and mini luv were in their primes and freighter ganking was getting a lot of attention. You've just shown how out of touch with this game you really are. Ganking two years ago was less than it was before then but ganking happens less now than ever before. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 481	Posted - 2016.09.03 12:20:32 - [37] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4972885#post4972885 EVE never was supposed to be a carebear heaven. You either have the guts to stay alive, or you can curl up and whimper in the corner. EVE, unlike WoW, was never designed to be a game for the masses. It's a niche game and it's perfectly fine if it doesn't fit you. There are enough other games available that are more suitable for your playstyle. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 12927	Posted - 2016.09.03 12:29:46 - [38] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: I actually have a good understanding of the game. You do not have a good understanding of proper formatting in general, and paragraphing in specific. You also do not have as a good understanding of the game as you claim, for if you did you would realise that what befell you was entirely your fault and entirely preventable. You have only yourself to blame. Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . Bumble's Space Log
Lugia3 Tri-gun Escalating Entropy 1521	Posted - 2016.09.03 13:06:22 - [39] - Quote This is a thread of the ages. "CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 974	Posted - 2016.09.03 16:14:21 - [40] - Quote Scanned but did not read the entire topic. First thing ganking was never an intended game play option even CCP admits it, they have accepted it as a form of emergent game play and as such it will likely be with us for a very long time. Dolorous Tremmens wrote: If you are mining you can buy protection in the form of not being attacked by certain groups. Now you mention the f2p, that is to bring more people in to witness and take part in mindless violence, or get savvy enough to enjoy the escape and the chase. It is the taste of real risk that sells the game. The free to play aspect is really just an extended trial to help people understand this. I can say that CCP is putting limited F2P in the game for players to experience the industrial side of the game and I am just as accurate as you. CCP is implementing limited F2P so people can experience ALL that EvE has to offer not just one small segment of it. To be honest with you the F2P is going to be a failure and those who pray on the new players are going to be the primary reason for it..

Wimzy Chent-Shi Unkindness Incorporated Who Dares Wins. 87	Posted - 2016.09.03 16:26:53 - [41] - Quote I thought carebears can afford to plex sub, what do they pay for then? If you fly 6 bil thing in highsec, someone finds out and it isn't foolproof tanked, you are gonna have a bad time. On other hand I agree that there is no real defense against HS ganking: What is the person who knows he is getting ganked to do? For instance imagine you fly a marauder for missions (yes 60+ days training wasted cause tengu does it better etc.) so your ship is at least a bil. Do you dock up 4ever? Set up a not so shiny bait? Hire an army of ECM peeps to keep you safe once you are potentially alphaed faster than an ewar would tick? Still you are going to die, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it, and that feeling of inevitability is strange, ofc if they do not overwhelm you, you win. great, but since the numbers are not going to be issue especially post F2P I mean, you can only make them lose more, but you will still lose out in the end if you break. Make a newbro foundation started @ here Let us help those newbros that can not PLEX themselves.
Solecist Project 32871	Posted - 2016.09.03 16:35:38 - [42] - Quote Wimzy Chent-Shi wrote: Still you are going to die, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it This is called "Life" and EVE ONLINE mimics it thoroughly. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
David Grogan The Motley Crew Reborn End of Life 328	Posted - 2016.09.03 17:07:23 - [43] - Quote Sounds like the OP needs to join one of the noob friendly alliances to properly learn the game ganking is an integral part of the game. knowing how to survive it is a must. 1. dont fly what you cant afford to lose 2. if in null sec have many jump clones so if hell camped just jump clone out and carry on with your business 3. if joining a corp in null use the intel channels and always keep local open in a seperate window Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 518	Posted - 2016.09.03 17:19:06 - [44] - Quote I'm simultaneously impressed and saddened at how many people fell for this bait thread
Solecist Project 32874	Posted - 2016.09.03 17:38:06 - [45] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: I'm simultaneously impressed and saddened at how many people fell for this bait thread Why do you think it is? I'm curious. I'm not spotting any of the usual things. It seems thorough from top to bottom. What gave it away? That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 103	Posted - 2016.09.03 18:02:39 - [46] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. 1. Because usually mission runners have loads of juicy faction/deadspace/officer mods, which means mad money if they drop. 2. Because it's fun. There you go, 2 reasons right there. Bubba Freedom wrote: Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls. If they're idiots then how did you die to them? Why didn't you just outsmart them? As for the nullsec 'trolls' if you go into nullsec of course you're going to be shot at. Bubba Freedom wrote: If a new player can't do anything in either place, then even going free to play is not going to stop the bleed of players. The community is not policing itself as originally intended. Newbies aren't really worth ganking. It's not like you're permanently banned from any space just because there are gankers there, just git gud and tank your ship and maintain situational awareness. Newbies will either learn this or die. Bubba Freedom wrote: If we're going to go free to play, why not add a pve only option finally. Safety could be expanded to make it so that players with a green safety can't be locked by other players not at war with them. This might be one of the best things if implemented to bring players back. Could make it a subscription only option and make it even more worth it to subscribe to the game. Get out. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Bubba Freedom The Scope Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.09.03 18:26:27 - [47] - Quote Wimzy Chent-Shi wrote: I thought carebears can afford to plex sub, what do they pay for then? If you fly 6 bil thing in highsec, someone finds out and it isn't foolproof tanked, you are gonna have a bad time. On other hand I agree that there is no real defense against HS ganking: What is the person who knows he is getting ganked to do? For instance imagine you fly a marauder for missions (yes 60+ days training wasted cause tengu does it better etc.) so your ship is at least a bil. Do you dock up 4ever? Set up a not so shiny bait? Hire an army of ECM peeps to keep you safe once you are potentially alphaed faster than an ewar would tick? Still you are going to die, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it, and that feeling of inevitability is strange, ofc if they do not overwhelm you, you win. great, but since the numbers are not going to be issue especially post F2P I mean, you can only make them lose more, but you will still lose out in the end if you break. that is what i'm talking about. Actually no I'd rather be out fighting them. The only reason this became a bait thread was because no one could have the maturity to address it with other than it's your fault. Yes there are things you can do to avoid ganks, I do them all, ask the guy that spent two hours hunting me in low yesterday, the issue is in high, and the fact that the way people have addressed this thread just goes to show how much of an issue it is. Yes you can sneak up and kill the high sec mission runner or miner, but it's high sec, and you are just showing how much of a douche you are when you do it, not to mention players can't play when they are losing ships left and right for no reason other than you want to get your kicks. This is the player attitude that needs to change. I don't fly T2 ships, they would make my life easier, can't afford them due to recent losses/covering other new player's losses. As stated before, other than someone getting their kicks killing someone because they can, there is no reason for high sec ganking other than war, and then that's war and expected. I do however appreciate the few constructive elements that have tried to address the issue. I even appreciate the gankers that have come out, as much nonconstructive and showing your douche side as you've done.
Solecist Project 32875	Posted - 2016.09.03 18:36:09 - [48] - Quote Players aren't losing ships to gankers left and right. Your opinion about the reasons why others gank are irrelevant ... ... as it's not your business, and ... ... if you can't come up with any, then you should ask yourself WHY ... ... because others can and they are actually nicer people than you. You are not a good person. Gankers aren't all bad people. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
FT Cold R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry 80	Posted - 2016.09.03 19:21:26 - [49] - Quote Ganking has taken a lot of nerfs over the years. Players have gotten a lot of new tools and much better learned to cope with ganking. I think its time to give it a buff, slightly increase concord response time (maybe 25%) to offset the EHP buff all ships got because of the structure resist change and re-institute insurance payoffs for ganking ships. Make highsec interesting. Also, allow players to wardec other players directly, so that hiding in NPC corps is no longer possible.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 374	Posted - 2016.09.03 20:28:39 - [50] - Quote EVE is a scary place. It would be incredibly boring if it weren't a scary place. A signature :o

Bing Bangboom DAMAG Safety Commission 510	Posted - 2016.09.04 05:10:44 - [51] - Quote I haven't seen a lot of the anti-ganking crowd in this thread, except SP and I always suspect she is just trolling us but the OP is the reason we exist. Exterminating people like him is the exact reason the New Order was formed and also the exact reason we still are laboring out in the gank fields as they seem to be infinite in number. The OP and his kind will kill Eve. Even our erstwhile opponents can see that. You may not like us but consider the alternative. Kill all the carebears. Repeatedly and without mercy. Highsec is worth fighting for. By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
Lugh Crow-Slave 2987	Posted - 2016.09.04 05:33:34 - [52] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: I'm simultaneously impressed and saddened at how many people fell for this bait thread Many of us have nothing better to do Citadel worm hole tax
Jasmine Deer Perkone Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.09.04 06:50:26 - [53] - Quote Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: Bubba Freedom wrote: The community is not policing itself as intended. Doesn't that mean this is your fault? You think with all the mind-numbing high sec isk grinding I have to go through every month in order to earn a Plex to have another free month of pointless gameplay I actually have time to engage in community policing? Sheesh.
Infinity Ziona Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2442	Posted - 2016.09.04 08:01:59 - [54] - Quote You do not need to stop high sec ganking rather you need it to have some drawbacks. It currently does not. When freighters came out you needed about 100 battleships to kill one. Thats 10 billion in hulls and fit at the time (battleships were much cheaper hulls). Now you only need a 30 destroyers at about 300 mill. When you suicided the frieghter you got a massive hit and grinding it up was not hard but a lot harder than it is now. So all in all it was not worth doing except where the ship was carrying very valuable loot. That was called balance. If you do a search of Baltec1s killboard, the last time he ganked with Goons they killed 16 ships, of those 16 14 were freighters and of those 14 13 were empty. Thats what you called imbalanced. When its worthwhile to gank empty freighters for lols. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lugh Crow-Slave 2988	Posted - 2016.09.04 08:27:05 - [55] - Quote amazingly with a bit of logi and a booster if you do fail and get caught you can still make it take an amazing number of ABC in order to kill your freighter through the reps before concord shows. (ofc again you should not even be getting caught) oh i forgot freighters are the capital that shouldn't need support silly me Citadel worm hole tax
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2768	Posted - 2016.09.04 08:48:06 - [56] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: I just trow in some blatant lies here to provoke a reaction Well done, you should become a politician. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Infinity Ziona Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2442	Posted - 2016.09.04 09:42:33 - [57] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: I just trow in some blatant lies here to provoke a reaction Well done, you should become a politician. Lol when I get home ill link the thread discussing ganking the first freighter. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Carela Loki Gang Bang Pandas Snuffed Out 0	Posted - 2016.09.04 11:20:55 - [58] - Quote simple answer: no reason: because it would break eve
Foxstar Damaskeenus Taladi Federation 280	Posted - 2016.09.04 12:22:21 - [59] - Quote Did the original poster create 3 new accounts to give himself 3 thumbs up? "[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath
Dornier Pfeil Caldari Provisions Caldari State 18	Posted - 2016.09.04 17:30:59 - [60] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls. If a new player can't do anything in either place, then even going free to play is not going to stop the bleed of players. The community is not policing itself as originally intended. If we're going to go free to play, why not add a pve only option finally. Safety could be expanded to make it so that players with a green safety can't be locked by other players not at war with them. This might be one of the best things if implemented to bring players back. Could make it a subscription only option and make it even more worth it to subscribe to the game. There is a game out there exactly like what you want. Why did you choose to play EvE instead? Now that I've shown you that other game, why would you continue to play EvE. If you stay now, with forethought, then you are default choosing ganking over safety. Live with it.

Dornier Pfeil Caldari Provisions Caldari State 18	Posted - 2016.09.04 18:10:12 - [61] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: That "study" you refer too is already generally agreed by most of the player base to be toilet water, not to mention you can't get a new player out to null and have them be productive. We are killing off our player base either way you look at it. Ganking in high sec is pretty much the worst you can do. When you complain about markets and lack of hauling, or sell prices being too high and buys too low, that's all because you or your friends killed off the last few shipments of that item someone was hauling. You and the rest of your corp/alliance are one of the main reasons for the issues we have right now. Your lack of control and common sense is duly noted as low. The fact is I'm not being counter productive as the option would still exist by expanding the safety function. Heck for all I care make it red or green, put a 24 hour timer on going red and make it so you can shoot all red in high sec. But then again that puts code at a little disadvantage doesn't it because they can't hide behind concord till they find an easy kill. First Bolding: Define productive. I have the same problem with you I have with the pvp'ers who think the only part of the game that matters is ship on ship pew pew. If a new player is out in null they very likely have been taken in by people who can help them with hardware to fly in consistent with their skill level until they have skilled up to productively supporting themself. It's not like T1 f/d/c are horribly expensive. Second Bolding: If your understanding of the game is so good then how come you don't know CODE. can't hide behind CONCORD if they are -10.0? And for those few who are not red blinkies you can always wardec them. Or did your massive understanding miss that too? To misquote a certain American president, "BE THE POLICE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR!". I hear these people are looking for help. Bubba Freedom wrote: Yes there are things you can do to avoid ganks, I do them all, ask the guy that spent two hours hunting me in low yesterday, the issue is in high, Then how did you get station-camped in Jita? It's not like they have bubbles. edited to save posts.
Dornier Pfeil Caldari Provisions Caldari State 18	Posted - 2016.09.04 19:22:16 - [62] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Bubba Freedom wrote: That "study" you refer too is already generally agreed by most of the player base to be toilet water, not to mention you can't get a new player out to null and have them be productive. The biggest alliances currently in nullsec in EVE are composed of only new players. Yes they are very effective and valuable players and they actually experience the game for what it is, a competitive massive multiplayer sandbox game. You simply oppose this study because it does not fit into your concept about your constructed problem. You oppose a study with a sample size of 80'000 players with your gut feelings and think you know better. You sir are a troll and this thread is reported for redundancy and trolling. Have a nice day Then it should be fair to say you support the study precisely because it comports with the bias you have. Just today's NYT had a piece discussing a paper that demonstrated how acceptance bias imbues us. Even real scientists are having problems demonstrating that their studies are reliable and say what is claimed they are saying. If trained scientists, disinterested, dispassionate, objective, are having trouble proving things then why should we accept CCP's conclusions. They are hardly a model of disinterest. I have to support OP. CCP demonstrated a correlation, not a causation. The most likely cause was simply that the kind of players who are most likely to stay are also the kind of players who are most likely to go out into the big, bad, cruel world where they can get shot in the face. OP is still a twit.
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 405	Posted - 2016.09.05 03:58:16 - [63] - Quote Let's take Bubbies idea to its logical conclusion. Why should ships be invulnerable to players, but still vulnerable to NPCs? When safety is set to green, player ships should be 100% impervious to damage. This will surely get lots of former players to return.
Rawmeat Mary Celtic Anarchy Complaints Department 137	Posted - 2016.09.05 07:30:34 - [64] - Quote Rawketsled wrote: Let's take Bubbies idea to its logical conclusion. Why should ships be invulnerable to players, but still vulnerable to NPCs? When safety is set to green, player ships should be 100% impervious to damage. This will surely get lots of former players to return. After a few months, thousands upon thousands of invulnerable Yield/DPS/Warp Speed Officer and A-types fit PVE ships EVERYWHERE. Woohoo win. 'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing. And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.' Yeah, we're like that.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2770	Posted - 2016.09.05 07:58:34 - [65] - Quote Dornier Pfeil wrote: Then it should be fair to say you support the study precisely because it comports with the bias you have. Just today's NYT had a piece discussing a paper that demonstrated how acceptance bias imbues us. Even real scientists are having problems demonstrating that their studies are reliable and say what is claimed they are saying. If trained scientists, disinterested, dispassionate, objective, are having trouble proving things then why should we accept CCP's conclusions. They are hardly a model of disinterest. I have to support OP. CCP demonstrated a correlation, not a causation. The most likely cause was simply that the kind of players who are most likely to stay are also the kind of players who are most likely to go out into the big, bad, cruel world where they can get shot in the face. OP is still a twit. You are looking at this the wrong way. Science works through falsification. You form a Hypothesis and calculate some predictions, then you check with facts if your hypothesis survives reality. CCP had a hypothesis, just like the OP and many other carebears. Let's call it "The Carebear Hypothesis". Like OP, those carebears stated for years that the decline in numbers has a direct correlation with people like us driving players away from EVE with nonconsensual PvP. In fact they said that even before the decline. People like the OP are crying about this on the forums from day one when EVE was in beta. Some people at CCP where also believers in "The Carebear Hypothesis", but they where in the unique position to verify/falsify the claim with actual data from new players who left the game. So they did and the presentation of CCP Rise shows the results. "The Carebear Hypothesis" was completely obliterated. The facts clearly show that the correlation OP and his carebear friends construct is false. The trend it shows is completely inverted to what carebears tell you, in fact the people who where on the receiving end of nonconsensual PvP where the most likely to stick around. This is the complete opposite of "The Carebear Hypothesis". By the way, CCP also looked at the reason players stated about why they quit and did not just present a correlation. Less than 1% cited ship loss or harassment as the reason they left EVE. I am just using the same study to remind the OP that the basis for his whiny thread is wrong. I am not the one making claims here and who constructs a correlation, but clearly the OP is and it is a correlation which has been shown to be wrong already. And yes it only shows 80'000 players in their first 15 days. But OP was talking about new players and those are the player represented in the study. Obviously the next thing the carebear crowd is saying is that after the 15 days the data would show the complete opposite or like OP here, just completely disregard the study and pretend it is just wrong. They have no basis to claim this, it is completely absurd. They listen to the same gut feeling which already betrayed them and just try to spin some new carebear hypothesis. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Lugh Crow-Slave 3005	Posted - 2016.09.05 08:59:51 - [66] - Quote while i think OP is off his rocker i would like to point out even when ccp told us about that study they admitted the same size was far to small to draw any real conclusions from. personally weather or not ganking is causing ppl to leave it doesn't bother me i would rather a game die with its identity then live on as a shell (not that i think ganking is going to cause the death of eve) Citadel worm hole tax
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 976	Posted - 2016.09.05 14:46:51 - [67] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: CCP had a hypothesis, just like the OP and many other carebears. Let's call it "The Carebear Hypothesis". Like OP, those carebears stated for years that the decline in numbers has a direct correlation with people like us driving players away from EVE with nonconsensual PvP. In fact they said that even before the decline. People like the OP are crying about this on the forums from day one when EVE was in beta. Snipped a bunch out here to save forum space and because it is not needed. To everything you have stated in this post I could point to the flaws in the review process, flaws that render the results nearly worthless as proof of either side of the argument. So 1% left because non-consensual PvP that tells us nothing. To be able to put that into perspective we need to know how many of the 80,000 actually left a reason why they quit. If all 80,000 left reasons why they quit and only 1% mentioned non-consensual PvP the numbers tell us that non-consensual PvP is not a problem with player retention. On the other hand if only 800 players mentioned a reason why they quit and all 800 of them stated non-consensual PvP was one of the reasons they quit the numbers tell a radically different story. In the end there are far to many questions on how the review was done, to many questions like the ones above left unanswered for the review to be worth anything. But the real question is simply this, even if (please note I said IF) the review had proven that non-consensual PvP was a major factor in player retention do you really think CCP would have mentioned it even in a dev blog much less make it part of a keynote speech at a player gathering? Considering all things possible the survey and the results drawn from it are far from scientific and they prove nothing other than they are great marketing hype for CCP and continue to perpetuate a theory that do this day remains unproven.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2771	Posted - 2016.09.05 15:08:28 - [68] - Quote I guess sometimes reading is just really hard. Or maybe people can't see the difference between fact checking an already existing claim and drawing conclusions from a study. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony 713	Posted - 2016.09.05 15:30:51 - [69] - Quote Ima, I'm a little short on cash and I don't mine so there's no point..... but can I please get a permit now please? I'm sold.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2771	Posted - 2016.09.05 15:37:01 - [70] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Ima, I'm a little short on cash and I don't mine so there's no point..... but can I please get a permit now please? I'm sold. Did you read the Code and are you ready to accept James 315 as your Saviour? the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014

Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony 713	Posted - 2016.09.05 15:37:48 - [71] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Can't you just wait for this game to go F2P you'll get 10,000 nerds making threads like this per day. Should make alpha accounts force to watch a video explaining to them they can be killed anywhere in this game. I think this is a good idea. Rather than the NPE 'opportunities', one well done video should do the trick.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony 713	Posted - 2016.09.05 15:43:44 - [72] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Ima, I'm a little short on cash and I don't mine so there's no point..... but can I please get a permit now please? I'm sold. Did you read the Code and are you ready to accept James 315 as your Saviour? mumblemumblemumble DON'T RUB IT IN Yes I read some parts of it and then there was some hearsay. Some personal observation. Some chit chat on the forums..... How about we take it slow for our first date and maybe go blow up some botters before sharing a ring, a commitment? I'm not quite ready for matrimony under the sacrament of James just yet
DrysonBennington Eagle's Talon's 296	Posted - 2016.09.05 16:39:44 - [73] - Quote Zhilia Mann wrote: As mostly an explorer and industrialist: no. Destruction and lack of safety are integral to the game. If that means we lose a player here and there, so be it. As long as it isn't you that is lost who really cares right? As long as someone else is losing then its okay.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2771	Posted - 2016.09.05 17:34:36 - [74] - Quote This thread is complete now the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony 716	Posted - 2016.09.05 17:37:47 - [75] - Quote Praise Jammmmzzz nah, still can't do it- need more practice LOL
Netan MalDoran Last Garrison 243	Posted - 2016.09.05 18:10:13 - [76] - Quote Bubba Freedom wrote: you're looking at a two day old character that replaced one that couldn't't get out of pita due to station camps Im going to assume you meant to type 'Jita', if so, what the hell was wrong with your char? I can sit on the Jita undock for hours and no one would care to touch me. Were you undocking in untanked freighters with a couple trillion in cargo???? "Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was! Falcon's truth
Solecist Project 32980	Posted - 2016.09.05 18:28:45 - [77] - Quote DrysonBennington wrote: Zhilia Mann wrote: As mostly an explorer and industrialist: no. Destruction and lack of safety are integral to the game. If that means we lose a player here and there, so be it. As long as it isn't you that is lost who really cares right? As long as someone else is losing then its okay. If you want to stop High Sector ganking go into Null Space and find a Neutral friendly region like Providence where CVA lives. There are the occasional Reds that come into system but if you dock up and deny them a target they go elsewhere. The problem with High Sector Gankers is that there are targets everywhere and do not dock up because there is not a network that keeps track of CODE. The only way to defeat CODE is to establish a constant network in and around the systems they gank from those who run missions and mine in the systems on a constant basis. Broadcasting in local that CODE is in system and is ganking will also help keep pilots informed and aware that gankers are in system. If a gank occurs and the gank was not a result of CODE simply set all of the pilots involved with the gank and their corporation if they have one to - Red status. The next time they come into the system the system can be alerted to be on the lookout for them. It takes a non-trivial amount of effort taking you seriously ... ... when your brain outputs something like this: "If you want to stop High Sector ganking go into Null Space and find a Neutral friendly region like Providence where CVA lives. There are the occasional Reds that come into system but if you dock up and deny them a target they go elsewhere." For the equally unaware: moving to null does not stop highsec ganking. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lugh Crow-Slave 3010	Posted - 2016.09.05 18:39:51 - [78] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: Can't you just wait for this game to go F2P you'll get 10,000 nerds making threads like this per day. Should make alpha accounts force to watch a video explaining to them they can be killed anywhere in this game. I think this is a good idea. Rather than the NPE 'opportunities', one well done video should do the trick. you kidding? look at the videos they have very little that actually explains anything important but they did take the time to explain how to use the NES Citadel worm hole tax
Julie Oppenheimer State Protectorate Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.09.06 20:27:25 - [79] - Quote Had to log in at work to reply because this thread is ridiculous... Full disclosure: this isn't my main. But now on to the real message. I think I am one of the carebears you claim to want to protect and I strongly disagree with what you're putting forward. For the record, I've been playing this game since about mid 2012, I have never really PvP'd and most of what I do now is run missions, incursions, and industry in highsec. I also take the odd adventure to low/null/WH to explore or huff gas. Ganking (whether in highsec or otherwise) is part of what makes Eve Online the game that it is today. It's not like other games where it's only about maximizing and optimizing to make money or do whatever PvE activity floats your boat, Eve Online is about working for what you have (ignoring PLEX) and Eve Online is about permanent loss. Permanent loss makes you think about what you're doing and it fuels the economy. Can you begin to imagine what would happen to the economy alone if you made people un-gankable in highsec? You are proposing to essentially really dumb down this game. I'm a fan of making people think and I think games have been dumbing down far to much (Eve included to some extent) so I enjoy this game as a last bastion of games that weed out people who can't use their heads, people that aren't patient, people who expect stuff handed to them on a silver platter. One of the main reasons I love Eve is because it tends to discourage simpletons from playing. I don't want people who want to be able to just jump in and be the best at what they want and have no negative consequences; I'd rather CCP go bankrupt that cater to those people on the level that you are asking for. (Btw, props to CCP for having the balls not to give in so far). If you're changes were implemented, you'd probably get a large surge of new players and then it'd drop off to next to nothing as there would no longer be anything that differentiated this game from any other game. As a carebear, I'd quit Eve Online if what you propose were implemented. There are plenty of MMO's that offer what you are asking for, Eve Online not having these things is what makes it unique and it's why I love this game.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5199	Posted - 2016.09.06 23:14:32 - [80] - Quote Dornier Pfeil wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Bubba Freedom wrote: That "study" you refer too is already generally agreed by most of the player base to be toilet water, not to mention you can't get a new player out to null and have them be productive. The biggest alliances currently in nullsec in EVE are composed of only new players. Yes they are very effective and valuable players and they actually experience the game for what it is, a competitive massive multiplayer sandbox game. You simply oppose this study because it does not fit into your concept about your constructed problem. You oppose a study with a sample size of 80'000 players with your gut feelings and think you know better. You sir are a troll and this thread is reported for redundancy and trolling. Have a nice day Then it should be fair to say you support the study precisely because it comports with the bias you have. Just today's NYT had a piece discussing a paper that demonstrated how acceptance bias imbues us. Even real scientists are having problems demonstrating that their studies are reliable and say what is claimed they are saying. If trained scientists, disinterested, dispassionate, objective, are having trouble proving things then why should we accept CCP's conclusions. They are hardly a model of disinterest. I have to support OP. CCP demonstrated a correlation, not a causation. The most likely cause was simply that the kind of players who are most likely to stay are also the kind of players who are most likely to go out into the big, bad, cruel world where they can get shot in the face. OP is still a twit. No. Even though there is an issue with replication in science in general, you are committing a serious error of logic to assume that the CCP study is therefore flawed. It might be, but the only way to know for sure is to replicate the study. Also, the causation is inferred from the analysis because people listed their cause for leaving. Further, the OP is also making an argument via popularity, "most of the player base think...." Really? Has there been a poll somewhere? Yeah, didn't think so. Ganking has been in the game since day 1. Ganking was even easier earlier in the game's history. Yet the game's population grew. Can the OP explain that? No? Hmmmm.... How about this hypothesis the OP is using the decline in players as a ploy to try and gin up support for a position absent the decline in players he'd likely never get? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5199	Posted - 2016.09.06 23:18:04 - [81] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: while i think OP is off his rocker i would like to point out even when ccp told us about that study they admitted the same size was far to small to draw any real conclusions from. personally weather or not ganking is causing ppl to leave it doesn't bother me i would rather a game die with its identity then live on as a shell (not that i think ganking is going to cause the death of eve) Uhh...what? Where I work we have 5.2 million customers. We routinely use sample sizes of 50,000 and it is fine. CCP has nowhere near 5.2 million customers, a sample of 80,000 is probably sufficient. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5199	Posted - 2016.09.06 23:20:37 - [82] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: So 1% left because non-consensual PvP that tells us nothing. To be able to put that into perspective we need to know how many of the 80,000 actually left a reason why they quit. If all 80,000 left reasons why they quit and only 1% mentioned non-consensual PvP the numbers tell us that non-consensual PvP is not a problem with player retention. On the other hand if only 800 players mentioned a reason why they quit and all 800 of them stated non-consensual PvP was one of the reasons they quit the numbers tell a radically different story. Uhmmm...it has been awhile since I watched that presentation, but I was under the impression all 80,000 have left, so your entire argument here, if my memory is correct, is just wrong. Damn, now I'll have to go watch it again. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony 732	Posted - 2016.09.06 23:23:10 - [83] - Quote Oh Teckos ... how easily you allow yourself to be baited. You didn't think for a second OP was serious, did you?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5199	Posted - 2016.09.06 23:28:17 - [84] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Oh Teckos ... how easily you allow yourself to be baited. You didn't think for a second OP was serious, did you? Actually, bad mouthing that study is not that uncommon. Maybe it is flawed and a replication would be good, but the usual assertion is 'It's junk and everyone knows it." "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony 732	Posted - 2016.09.06 23:35:28 - [85] - Quote I'm among those who don't put much stake into said study myself, not because of the number of samples but rather what was sampled: do 15 day old players get ganked? No. Because they have nothing worth ganking, and most people shy away from rookies in rookie systems to not incur the wrath of the almight mjolnir. But then again, I also couldn't give two hoots and a holler IF someone were to leave due to getting blown up. Because it's advertized on the box - it's just that kind of game and if you don't like it- fine. EvE is not for everyone and I'd rather not play with evergrumps. I don't care about losing certain players, therefore said study is only of marginal interest to me. It may be true. It may not be true. The question only CCP can answer, and every man has a right to decide for himself, is: do we want to alter the game to cater to said crowd, or not? Regardless of what the study may indicate. And this is where you and I meet again I believe, albeit following a different route.
Kenneth Fritz DND Industries FUBAR. 8	Posted - 2016.09.07 10:00:43 - [86] - Quote I don't usually do this but, No, just No. I've lost billios of ISK to hisec ganks and random null interlopers. While frustrating and, at times, infuriating I realize that it is simply a very small part of a very big game. Also getting away wouldn't feel as awesome as it does on the rare ocasion you can if the threat weren't so very real. Who's your end of the world buddy?
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode isd community communications liaisons 7236	Posted - 2016.09.07 18:48:25 - [87] - Quote Quote: Forum rules 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. Thread closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.