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Anchoring Containers, Too much clutter?

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raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.04.05 05:06:00 - [31] make the code breaker able to hack the can. hehe and the cans go home. theres mega in them their cans
Suggestion Box	Posted - 2007.04.05 06:36:00 - [32] The can hacking idea sounds interesting. It could be implemented similar to trying to blow up the can (i.e. high sec: you get CONCORD response, low sec: you lose sec status, in 0.0: no repercussions). Thus you can get at the contents of the can (and the can itself), but they should be protected by CONCORD as accessing them is stealing (an intended use of the can to store items of value unlike jettison cans). As far as where to put them, I thought assets would be a good idea, but anywhere would be good enough, just that they're listed. I'm sure that there's many abandoned cans somewhere because someone forgot where they were. As far as "renting" the can space, that's what the starbase charters are for, an already developed system that CCP can extend to cover anchored cans. The point of having "rent" is as a small ISK sink (or large depending on how many people want to keep their cans anchored) or a reduction of resources (fewer cans in space). You can fill a can with enough charters for a full year for less than 4m^3 and 4 million ISK (which is fairly cheap for a corporation to maintain few of these advertisements). Also, this will only affect cans at downtime, thus miners can anchor and clean up with no cost to them. However, this is one of many different ideas to encourage people to clean up their cans otherwise they may be cleaned up by other mechanisms, whether to unanchoring and other people scooping to hacking or just going pop.
Lord Gooby	Posted - 2007.04.05 10:28:00 - [33] As a relative newcomer, I find it a bit anti-newb that existing cans have not been removed from 1.0 - 0.8 areas while I have to travel to 0.7 to figure out how to anchor my own cans, and when I get there it reminds me of the Ace Rimmer episode of Red Dwarf (ie. zillions of cans floating about). It seems as though any charging for cans in high sec via batteries or charters would disadvantage those who need the facility most (new corps), who need all the advertising possible and can least afford it. We are already getting stung over office rent (can any new corp afford an office in a starter station?). However since these asteroid belts appear to spawn pirates I can't help wondering what they're doing when my ship isn't around to attack? Perhaps they should be focussing their energies on attacking cans instead? Some form of maintenance would be required to keep cans active (1-3 points in mechanic maybe and a right-click "service container" option within 1500m) and those corps who have unmaintained cans floating around would gradually have them reduced to scrap metal (contanium?) or at the very least unanchored and scoopable.
Tristin Del'astakhos Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.04.05 11:31:00 - [34] Edited by: Tristin Del''astakhos on 05/04/2007 11:29:09 As far as using cans for advertising, perhaps they could just make a new item, Billboards. There seems to be a demand anyway. Or allow corps to rent the current billboards in game. You could make it more and more costly, the more signs you had, that would help prevent overflow. As far as mining cans, perhaps they could modify the anchor skill and add a duration to it. Something like... Level 1 = 6 hours Level 2 = 12 hours Level 3 = 24 hours Level 4 = 48 hours Level 5 = 72 hours That way the longest anyone could do it is 72 hours, which is way more time that any one person needs. After someone anchors a can, their level would be checked and the corresponding countdown would begin. When it reached 0 the cans would release into space where it's scoop-able by anyone to steal. -------------------------------------------------- Tristin Del'astakhos - Seeking employment Host of the Jaded City Podcast.
Dave White The Kennels	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:33:00 - [35] Edited by: Dave White on 05/04/2007 15:31:14 I couldn't agree more. Personally think that containers/ships left unattended/accessed for say....3 months, should be removed at the next DT. Edit: Drones too, actually.
Suggestion Box	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Lord Gooby It seems as though any charging for cans in high sec via batteries or charters would disadvantage those who need the facility most (new corps), who need all the advertising possible and can least afford it. We are already getting stung over office rent (can any new corp afford an office in a starter station?). At 10,000 ISK per charter (about 2 to 4 times going rate on the market), It will cost you 300,000 ISK per month per billboard container. 1 good L1 mission (Worlds Collide where you clear all 4 rooms comes to mind) should give you that in bounties and reward/bonus. So it will take you about 1 hour per month in a frigate doing L1 missions to maintain 1 billboard. Let's say you play 5-10 hours a week. That means you could devote all your earnings to maintenance of these containers and have 20-40 of them (or more if you can get the charters cheaper). Now let's look at a small corporation of say 4 players. 4 players in frigates, playing casually at about 5 to 10 hours a week, comes to about 80-160 hours a month, which should fund 80 to 160 billboards for that month. This doesn't include people who get into L2 missions and cruisers which pay better than L1s. In addition, fewer billboard cans means each one is more distinctive and more likely to be noticed. The question becomes how many gates/starbases are you going to cover with those billboards and how elaborate are you going to make those advertisements. I have seen billboard designs of 10 or more cans in multiple systems from the same corporation. Is it really necessary to have that many containers for a single billboard? What happens when people try to out do each other with billboard designs of many cans? Also, what happens to those billboards when the corporation dissolves? With a mechanism to clean cans in high sec and discourage leaving cans all over the place like space litter, I believe CCP can reopen 1.0 to 0.8 for can anchoring again.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.05 20:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Toda Toranaga allowing anchored cans to dissapear after a time of no access is a problem. what about people who anchor cans and rename them, using them as billboards or advertisements? This should ONLY apply to those cans in asteroid belts. They are useful for a limited time, but have you ever looked them carefully? Most are age olds remanants. "you are entering corp X territory". You look the corp: it has 1 player left as placeholder, the one putting up the can has changed corporation 3 times and the territory is now controlled by corporation Q.
Hasiti	Posted - 2007.04.09 04:18:00 - [38] What about making money by salvaging every can when they have been in space for too long and selling them in station. It would be exactly like today when you sell your old car battery to get a new one at a lower cost. Maybe you could even reprocess your can. But people could simply stand one to another and drop can every time, so I don't know what they could do for that.
Sieges Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.09 23:25:00 - [39] I actually like seeing the cans. It gives a little bit of life to an empty the galaxy.
Karma Gallente Mos Eisley Consortium	Posted - 2007.04.10 10:19:00 - [40] the anchoring skill should let you keep the untended can in place for one day per skill level. (possibly week/level) you could also add a cost... which you could disguise as a fee for having it registered in the spacecharts... (you know, it's a risk to space travel after all) there used to be a lot of talk about giving the cans back to those who anchored them... but obviously they no longer care about them, or they would have gone and picked them up. so screw 'em. _________________ "No Worries" Karma, fool on the hull.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2007.04.10 11:18:00 - [41] Ancored cans should be unanchorable, simply put. The ammount of time they've been anchored makes it difficult to unanchor a can that's relatively new, while cans that have been forgotten for months (or years; I have one in Immensea that's been there 27 months now). Initially the difficulty is 100% for the first month, slowly degrading by, say, 10% per month. A specialized hacking-type module is required to make an unanchoring attempt with a base chance of 20% per cycle for a can that has 0% unanchor resistance. Each cycle takes 60 seconds, so it's not something done easily. Specialized rigs and/or hacking ships increase the base chance as with the other hacking modules. Once the can is unanchored it can be scooped, but 'ownership' has to be changed by unloading it into a hangar and repackaging it. So once it's unanchored you still can't open it immediately.
Sieges	Posted - 2007.04.23 14:47:00 - [42] I am for any/all of these ideas, as long as they don't affect cans anchored in deep-space. I have stores of ammo hidden around the galaxy. My cans aren't bothering anybody. These rules should only apply to cans anchored within 500 Km of warpable objects.
Mekis Aribo	Posted - 2007.04.24 11:14:00 - [43] Why rats attack only ships?? If they are real pirates they should take any chance to rob something or somebody. If there is no ship in targeting range, they could treat any available object as loot. Floating cans then would be perfect targets. They can event upgrade their weapons since e some money had been made from salvaging or looting cans.
Xortak	Posted - 2007.04.24 13:42:00 - [44] Cans are everywhere and are really cluttering up the view. However, this could be an opportunity! Let the space janitors take care of non maintained cans (not accessed in a certain amount of time). They'll fly around in cool garbage ships just like in Space Quest 5.
Kata Amentis Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.04.24 17:58:00 - [45] Edited by: Kata Amentis on 24/04/2007 17:57:09 Edited by: Kata Amentis on 24/04/2007 17:55:32 hacking cans sounds like a good idea, but then, how many of the billions of cans actually have something in them?? the ones at belts almost certainly dont... and the majority of them in empire are for corps long gone from what i've seen (saw some cans my first corp deployed 3 years ago recently) how about we just set it so the cans take damage over time... the ones in use can be remotely rep'd and/or scooped, the cans that are not in use are left to deteriate and pop... you could even make it that sec cans that are more than 75% (or whatever) damaged are susceptable to hacking... if you look after your cans, you are ok, the old ones can be looted and eventually pop. Clearing space, and clutter. Hp could just be changed at DT, and and if you did it as a % of max HP all the cans would last about the same amount of time... so signposts can still be small cheaper and belt mining cans can be the giants... i'd be happy with a cans lifespan lasting a month, cant be too long, or too short though. and if hacking is based on hp you could attack and split open open cans in the hope they had something in them... so long as you wanna spend the time pounding on them, they're tough little blighters (***** - a fissure, small opening, or the act of splitting stuff open... why starred out??) "Up and up, how far can we go? and how far must we fall to get there?"
Maxpie Split Infinity	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:04:00 - [46] I love when the cans are named something like "Pirates in next system - 03/03/06" He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Kata Amentis Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Sieges I am for any/all of these ideas, as long as they don't affect cans anchored in deep-space. I have stores of ammo hidden around the galaxy. My cans aren't bothering anybody. These rules should only apply to cans anchored within 500 Km of warpable objects. definately behind that, not talking about any of the deep space sec cans, sitting there undiscovered, slowly spinning on their axis, lit by the glow of the nearby sun... just the junk sitting in the belts and on the space lanes "Up and up, how far can we go? and how far must we fall to get there?"
Qolde Minmatar Guardian Heroes Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.01 03:11:00 - [48] Give us a way to kill the cans in high sec. It's rediculous. Case in point, the ice field in Abudban. Warping there causes the client to stop responding for more than 15 seconds. Make them shootable, scoopable, hackable, salvagable, or just make them dissappear after a reasonable period of time. 1-3 months is fine in my opinion. Never get popped again!
Antaeras	Posted - 2007.05.11 04:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Tavi Silverthorn Or CCP could make the anchoring have more use by making the higher the level the longer the can is able to stay anchored. Say one week per level. Great idea. Even better, combine this with other suggestions and make them hackable and stealable / salvageable after that time, and display something in the overview to indicate their expiry. -- test everything. hold on to the good.
F0XY	Posted - 2007.05.11 12:34:00 - [50] Originally by: Tristin Del'astakhos Edited by: Tristin Del''astakhos on 03/04/2007 08:25:58 Just wipe all cans after each server reset. People should not be leaving cans around in space. I use cans to mine, and it's really a pain to go into a belt that is complexity empty of players and no room to anchor any of my own cans. I mean honestly, it's not hard to put your cans away when your done mining, I do it all the time, it takes all of 5 mins. Totally agree.
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Hammers Academy	Posted - 2007.05.11 12:45:00 - [51] nice idea. cans should be anchorable, true. cans should be passwordable, true. cans should be there after dt if anchored, true. your proposal, cans should have fuel/payment if anchored. "only" people with the corp role (space objects or whatever) should be able to anchor (besides ceo and director). cans should be rented depending on number (cans) in system they are placed (cost purposes). eg 1 can in a solar system currently you want to add one, your corp gets charged say 10k isk for a period such as 20 days. 300 cans in a system and you add one same as above but cost would be maybe 300 times the figure 3 mil isk. rents could work in the same way as offices but instead of having those extra 20 days when your rent is due you would get 5 or the can gets popped. People who use cans as ads are ok i reckon cos ads get services. but i propose a purchase space scheme at gates or whatever where that nice lil (annoying) billboard actually advertises your corp for a fee for daily adverts eg 1 day 20 corps do advertising, the billboard rotates between them randomly. you can pick any billboard to advertise on if you have an office in the system. billboards could also be placed at stations (in or out) so what do ppl think, i know there has been a thing bout advertising in stations for a long time
Silena Acoma	Posted - 2007.05.11 14:58:00 - [52] Lots of ship can't easily move the ore they have mined, So for each solo player and newbees, let their cans near belts is necessary (for a short or long time). Problems happens when the can wasn't used for a long time, and cans are acumulated by players. I propose a mechanism to put on the container an item, like a "hacker system". After a long time, like a week, the hacker system succesfully replace the password, and allow hacker system's installer to become the new container's owner. So a container left in space a long time can be hacked. (and forgotten password could be corrected ) During the hacker system's process, the owners (or other) can easily destroy the hacker system to keep the old password's container and owner. And i see no reason to protect deepspace containers from the hacker system. You can store things, but other player can find it. For advertising, a Billborad item (buy on the market, make with blueprint) could be a good things, better than a poor container, a be a target of the hacker system too. A bigger container could be really helpfull too.
Auri Hella The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:15:00 - [53] Removing the legions of old, forgotten cans in any way whatsoever is a victory.
Prt Scr	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:57:00 - [54] I think the developers should introduce a new skill, Lockpicking giving a 5% chance of opening a 'can' per level, working as the salvageing skill does, but needing no equipment. To make can thieft interesting, the owner should be notified of an attempt if they are in system. And any attempt should give 'aggression rites' to the 'can' owner as is usual for theift. There are enough sticky fingered players to ensure that the asteroid belts will soon be returned to their natural pristine state. Please excuisce the spelling love and kisses
Felyza Caldari Equinox Labs	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:11:00 - [55] Originally by: Prt Scr I think the developers should introduce a new skill, Lockpicking giving a 5% chance of opening a 'can' per level, working as the salvageing skill does, but needing no equipment. To make can thieft interesting, the owner should be notified of an attempt if they are in system. And any attempt should give 'aggression rites' to the 'can' owner as is usual for theift. There are enough sticky fingered players to ensure that the asteroid belts will soon be returned to their natural pristine state. Please excuisce the spelling love and kisses Nah. Not another skill. They have "encrypted passwords" protecting the contents, just make them hackable. Lower the success rate from standard hackables, and make it NOT 'concordable', but make the act 15 minute flag. Something like max'ed out required skills = 10 minutes, minimum skills 20 minutes to break the password and assume container control. PLENTY of time for cans to be defended should people care about them. The long forgotten cans? They become recycled and turn into more productive things, like not-cans. -Felyza
Tycho Catullus	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:51:00 - [56] I agree...the cans should become hackable. Every moon and aevery planet of every 00 system has doezens of these thingies...if they become hackablae this would provide a nice incentive for a whole new class of players...professional hackers and scavangers roaming aorund the cosmos trying to salavage and steal loot from containers eliminating in the process the lag those things add to. I even had a poll awhile ago on the forums about it that some people signed. Yes, make cans hackable and bring another dimension of fun into eve - i dont see any drawbacks only positive aspects of this idea.
Pandora Pyxis	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:37:00 - [57] Edited by: Pandora Pyxis on 10/06/2007 17:38:00 /signs to cleanup excess cans from space I think a good way of going about it would be as previously mentioned working off of the anchoring level, the timer being shown when you click "show info" on the can. After the allotted time has passed the can becomes accessible to everyone, and is shown as such in the overview. This way miners and such wouldn't have to bring new cans each time, they can just use some one else's forgotten one. With any can being able to be picked up would make less people have to buy them and put more out on the market. They just scout the belts to find new ones. Level 1: 1 day Level 2: 3 days Level 3: 1 week Level 4: 2 weeks Level 5: 1 month To protect actively used cans, the can's timer is reset (based on the owners skills) back to the max amount of time allowed. (example being ... a person with level 3 skill goes out to a belt 5 days after he drops his can, the can timer has 2 days left, when he opens it the time then resets back to 1 week.) I think some type of fix wether along these lines or something else entirely does need to be done. I feel this should be done for ALL CANS in EVE, deep space or not. If the can means that much to you all you have to do is open it to reset the time. This prevents AFK cans from sitting there for years to come. If you do have a deepspace can it is still safe from pirates and others players, unless it is found. If it's not found you just warp to it and reset the timer on it.
Letheeth Kayl Amarr Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.12 19:58:00 - [58] I'd settle for just making it a non criminal event to shoot and destroy the cans. Property what? Who the Damge now? Pfft, we all know those cans are ugly. But in all seriousness, re-anchoring, hacking, both very good ideas (but hacking shouldn't be a GCC flag, just a yellow criminal tag, like ore theft). But what happens to all the abandoned cans? Put down the mirror and return to live With pain With sin With despair Live with penance in God's glory Lesson of Tobias and the Mirror Scriptures Verses26-29
Archo X Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.12 21:19:00 - [59] Cans should have no operation cost. I'm not too big on the idea of any nerf that would impact the only safe way to mine (ore thieves) aside from docking after every load. Making corps pay X isk per hour/day/week is dumb. Like someone said, out a few thousand charters in a can and let it sit. Money is wasted and the can will still sit there for a long time. Making cans hackable also nerfs the secure use (unless a hacking attemp grants kill rights to the anchoring player/corp). So the ore theif fits a code breaker to their indy. Flagging the theif would at least give a chance at retribution. I like the idea of cans being depleted during DT. Either they use battery power that powers the locks or they take damage from space debris hitting the cans. Either way the can can be maintained by a cap transfer or a remote armor rep. Then the indy in a mining op can fit a transfer or repper and repair the can. If the can goes without support for 7 days then it becomes derelict. The locks are deactivates, the anchoring mechanism is powered off, and the CONCORD notification system is offline (from lack of power or from severe damage). The can is now fair game, it can be opened, scooped, or destroyed by anyone. The best part is 7 days after this went live there would be a million people in Jita playing the "Can Lotto" hoping to find that can that someone stored all thier HAC BPOs in for safe keeping. The same idea should be applied to off-line hi-sec POSs. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes Do not discuss moderation in your signature - Kreul Intentions Double nerf
Tritec	Posted - 2007.06.13 18:28:00 - [60] A variation on the OPs idea of an anchoring tax: How about removing player owned cans in belts completely (at least in high sec) and adding a few fixed, rentable containers per belt for miners? These cans could be rented on an hourly basis and once rented act much like a secure can. To rent a container you could simply purchase tokens (or charters if you prefer) and drop them into the can. Once the can is rented to you it is accessable only to you and your gang/corp members (unless you're in an NPC corp, then it's just gang). These tokens should be sold by the NPC market, although if available elsewhere players could undercut NPC prices. To help out the new players they should be given a bunch of these tokens upon character creation. Assuming that you cant anchor cans in the belts anymore it would greatly reduce the lag when warping in (100's of player anchored cans vs. maybe 10 fixed cans). Should the (preferably small) capacity of these fixed cans be insufficient you can still jetcan mine but then you face the risk of ore theives.

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