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Fuma Flautai
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Posted - 2007.10.28 10:44:00 -
[91]
Let's just add a timer that starts now for every can that's already anchored and make them unanchor after thirty days of last access.
All the new cans will come with the counter included and I suspect that half of the cans would be gone next month...
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Xlera
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Posted - 2007.10.30 23:06:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Xlera on 30/10/2007 23:06:40
i think giant secure containers should pop after one week
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Tesal
Red Frog Investments
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2007.11.01 05:10:00 -
[93]
Why not let rats shoot the cans. They would do limited damage every day in areas where they are not kept at bay. The tougher the can, the longer it lasts. In areas where the rats are killed, the cans would persist longer. You could also have things like solar flares, and natural damage and space weather and such to clear out cans.
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Adunh Slavy
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.01 06:04:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 01/11/2007 06:06:27
IÆve not read this whole thread, so excuse me if this was mentioned: Rumors from Sisi are that rats are chewing on cans. I didnÆt inquire as to what sorts of cans they liked, nor did I ask how effective it was. For all I know it is some kind of aggro bug, we shall see.
But, if it is true and not a bug, perhaps this is a preemptive move to clean up belts prior to ôExploration Liteö, assuming that's still in the works.
The Real Space Initiative
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.01 08:26:00 -
[95]
 Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf
I believe that the cans should disappear 30 days after the last time it was accessed. If you don't use them in 30 days, you aren't going to use them.
Originally by: Cyclops43
Just make them automatically unanchor if they haven't been accessed by the owner for a month.
Either would be great.
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
IÆve not read this whole thread, so excuse me if this was mentioned: Rumors from Sisi are that rats are chewing on cans. I didnÆt inquire as to what sorts of cans they liked, nor did I ask how effective it was. For all I know it is some kind of aggro bug, we shall see.
But, if it is true and not a bug, perhaps this is a preemptive move to clean up belts prior to ôExploration Liteö, assuming that's still in the works.
It doesn't sound all that effective if it is in high-sec and they're chewing on GSC's, considering the HP of Giant Secure Containers is pretty high.
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sparroth
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Posted - 2007.11.01 18:23:00 -
[96]
The solution is simple, have concord go through every downtime and "fine" people for "littering"
Don't make the fine too large, just enough that you don't want to get it 100 times and don't have it affect their security status unless they don't pay the fine.
They can either pay the fine twice a week, or remove the can (There should be a link to it's location in the "fine" email as well as a link to pay the fine.
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Adunh Slavy
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.01 18:42:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
It doesn't sound all that effective if it is in high-sec and they're chewing on GSC's, considering the HP of Giant Secure Containers is pretty high.
Very true, maybe rats get a new skill, can popping, 50% dmg per lvl against cans. 
-AS
The Real Space Initiative
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TheDread Oz
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Posted - 2007.11.06 09:55:00 -
[98]
I believe that if a can has been floating around for more than a couple days unattended, then it should become free target for anyone. I don't think they should ever pop like a jet can, but if their anchoring wore off and anyone could come by and scoop them up it would greatly decrease the number of canisters floating around. I haven't experienced a lag problem myself from high density of cans, but I have found it really hard to click on asteroids and not the hundreds of cans floating around them, having to manipulate the camera into just the right angle to get between them.
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Vimir Gilixite
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Posted - 2007.11.18 22:37:00 -
[99]
Read through most, but not all, of the comments here. Couple of thoughts, along some of the same lines:
Unanchor cans after EACH DT - 0.1 - 1.0 sec only:
Seriously. Claiming a spot at a belt? If you've got the ship to EMPTY a GSC, you've got a way to DEPLOY a GSC.
Step 1 - Deploy can
Step 2 - Mine
Step 3 - Empty can
Step 4 - Remove can
Repeat steps 2 & 3 as needed. How hard is it? kinda like cleaning up a mess when you're done working. It just becomes part of the mining process. Also answers the problem of all those 0.8+ cans that aren't supposed to be there. Every DT, they just unanchor. First come, first scoop. This wouldn't apply to 0.0 space.
No cans near stations or gates - all space:
Really people. Wanna advertise your corporation? There's a forums section for that. No anchorable objects anywhere near a gate, station or outpost, anywhere. Might help with reducing lag, might not. But all these are used for in these locations is advertising. Start a forum thread in Corp Recruitment.
Some have suggested hacking. Some have suggested leaving cans anchored for a time depending on skills. I say just clean up your mess, and if you can't be bothered to, someone else should be allowed to take your stuff. No hacking, no time frame, just oops, unanchored.
Some won't agree with this, but, just my thoughts.
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Thenoran
Caldari
Frontier Economics
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.18 23:44:00 -
[100]
I suggest that if any given can (not just GSC's) remain empty for one month, an automated EVE-Mail message will be sent to the owner and it will alert the owner that he or she has one day to either make use of the cans or haul them in to a station, otherwise they will un-anchor and it will be legal for anyone to pick them up or use them (they wont be yellow to others).
If left alone for another week after that, it implodes.
Every time something is put into the can or taken out, the timer resets.
When a GSC contains item (say ammo) but it is never used or accessed, the same will apply but the timer will be two months instead of one and given two days to use or haul them.
That way an ammo dump can still be accessed easily and if used at the very least once by anyone with access every two months it will remain active.
I suppose an option would be that if someone fills a can with just 1 unit of Trit or something similar that it will regarded as empty.
Also, one should be able to see via the icon if a can that does not belong to you is anchored or not, that way unused and unanchored cans be cleaned up by players as well.
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Solbright altaltaltaltt
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:20:00 -
[101]
Must be restricted to high-sec belts only. Further reading - giant secure cans and cloggin up space
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Thenoran
Caldari
Frontier Economics
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.19 22:27:00 -
[102]
Depends on the amount of clutter in low-sec and 0.0 though, its not only macrominers that dump cans in space and leave them.
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Solbright altaltaltaltt
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Posted - 2007.11.20 08:47:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Thenoran
Depends on the amount of clutter in low-sec and 0.0 though, its not only macrominers that dump cans in space and leave them.
Low-sec and 0.0 you can just destroy any can that's in your way.
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Thenoran
Caldari
Frontier Economics
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.20 09:33:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Solbright altaltaltaltt
Originally by: Thenoran
Depends on the amount of clutter in low-sec and 0.0 though, its not only macrominers that dump cans in space and leave them.
Low-sec and 0.0 you can just destroy any can that's in your way.
Takes hours even in a Battleship to kill a single GSC...
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Solbright altaltaltaltt
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Posted - 2007.11.20 10:24:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Thenoran
Takes hours even in a Battleship to kill a single GSC...
It's no small task to put them there either.
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Kyrik Vaster
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Posted - 2007.11.21 18:11:00 -
[106]
Totally TOTALLY TOTALLY needs to be addressed.
No fee or rent, you purchased the can, plop and anchor any where you like...
however the "batteries/dammage" idea is exactly right. If you use the can, simply the act of opening and accessing the can "recharges/repairs" I don't want to have to haul around an armor repair or other item to do "can maint"...
and as has been said, after a bit (time frame is up for debate) the can unanchors, unlocks, "unsecures" and is accessable, scoopable, reusable, sellable by anyone who cares to roam the belts cleaning up the ditrus...
I would go with a 15 days to a month and it "unsecures" another 30 days and it just falls apart.
I think the idea here is to get rid of clutter and debris, not feed the ore thieves... a secure can is secure for one month after you last opened it... after that it fair game, or just fades away.
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Siynthetic
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Posted - 2007.11.23 07:45:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Xlera
Edited by: Xlera on 30/10/2007 23:06:40
i think giant secure containers should pop after one week
"Anyone who asks to nerf something, or to complain about their race sucking, or another race being uber, is a worthless whiner."
So, you're admitting that you are a "worthless whiner", by suggesting that anchorable cans pop after a week. After all, that would be a nerf to an existing system.
A week really isn't long enough. These can's cost a fair amount of ISK for a new player. They take alot of time to deploy because of the limited amount of space that needs to be maneuvered. And they have to be hauled around 1-at-a-time in Industrial Ships - the only ships that new players can afford at the time that are big enough just to get them to the area. So it's a logistics problem as well. To have them pop so soon for no reason is a bad idea.
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf
I believe that the cans should disappear 30 days after the last time it was accessed. If you don't use them in 30 days, you aren't going to use them.
Originally by: Cyclops43
Just make them automatically unanchor if they haven't been accessed by the owner for a month.
Either would be great.
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
IÆve not read this whole thread, so excuse me if this was mentioned: Rumors from Sisi are that rats are chewing on cans. I didnÆt inquire as to what sorts of cans they liked, nor did I ask how effective it was. For all I know it is some kind of aggro bug, we shall see.
But, if it is true and not a bug, perhaps this is a preemptive move to clean up belts prior to ôExploration Liteö, assuming that's still in the works.
It doesn't sound all that effective if it is in high-sec and they're chewing on GSC's, considering the HP of Giant Secure Containers is pretty high.
I agree with all of that. Recharge a 30-day timer by accessing the can, otherwise owner gets a mail or other notification and if that is ignored, the can becomes FFA bobbing around the roids.
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Ilandrin Yona
Elemental Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.25 02:41:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Kyrik Vaster
and as has been said, after a bit (time frame is up for debate) the can unanchors, unlocks, "unsecures" and is accessable, scoopable, reusable, sellable by anyone who cares to roam the belts cleaning up the ditrus...
I would go with a 15 days to a month and it "unsecures" another 30 days and it just falls apart.
I think the idea here is to get rid of clutter and debris, not feed the ore thieves... a secure can is secure for one month after you last opened it... after that it fair game, or just fades away.
I like this idea and support it 100%. It doesn't prevent people writing messages in space with cans, but it does make it more of a pain to keep it there.
When I used secure cans for mining I accessed them at least a few times a week, so I don't think this would inconvenience miners in any way.
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.12.12 15:46:00 -
[109]
I just spotted this thread from the common suggestions thread and zoomed down. While i agree that unanchoring is better than plain poofing, i'd like to see the duration of the anchor depend on your anchoring skill. Say 5 days for each skill level in anchoring until it unanchors? That way you get the 15 days if anchoring is 3 (a pretty average and easy to obtain skill level) and it can be raised to 25, almost a month by maxing it out.
Once unanchored, either the rules for jetcans should apply, the can should float until scooped up, or the can should poof at the next daily downtime. Either is fine by me to be honest.
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teapot01
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Posted - 2008.01.04 05:19:00 -
[110]
rats nibbling on cans... I like it.
howabaout a rat-trap too:
a fake can that explodes like a powerful
smartbomb when tampered with. |
Xindi Kraid
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:17:00 -
[111]
I like the idea of them unanchoring after a certain period of time.
I think cans should get 2 days anchor time per level of anchoring and f a can comes un-anchored then it gets scooped by NPCs after a week if no one has come to claim it
For those of you with supply depots set up in the middle of nowhere then maybe they could make an anchorable can tender that periodically recharges the batteries on one or more cans
1. War
2.
3. Profit |
Endy Mion
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Posted - 2008.01.15 21:45:00 -
[112]
I don't care how they do it, as long as they do it. Some roid fields have hundreds of cans but never any miners. It could just deteriorate over time and eventually pop.
Its annoying and disturbs the view.
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Rayst
Viscosity
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Posted - 2008.01.17 01:11:00 -
[113]
I liked the idea of allowing belt rats to engage cans, it makes sense according to the story line that the serpentis rats are protecting the assets of the serpentis corporation. Those Giant secure cans can take a while to kill with a battleship, therefore a few frigates in a belt would probably take days to kill one can if no one was hunting them. You just need to make cans repairable by an armor rep and remote sheild (if there not already)
An option for hacking can's sounds promising, how about if you are at war with the corporation you can hack the cans in high-sec? In low-sec you could take a security hit for hacking it unless at war, and in 0.0 theres no security hit taken but in any case the owner gets notified that there can is being tampered with every hacking failure. This means if your can is in a safe they have to scan it down to hack it.
As for cans anchored in areas of random space, solar systems do have winds that push on objects over time. You could give cans a life hp of 60-90 (2-3 months) and just shave off 1 hp every downtime. If it hits zero the can becomes unanchored, otherwise when you visit the can you can reset it back to max with the anchoring skill.
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super josh
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Posted - 2008.01.26 03:16:00 -
[114]
ok here are my ideas for can clean up
1. The anchoring skill has a bonus of say like 5% reduction in time for anchoring and unachoring of cans
2. The Hacking skill will also go in effect for secure cans using the codebreaking module it, it will have an additional item where it reduces the time to hack the password by 1% at lvl 1 and 5% at lvl 5 for secure cans, Secure cans being hacked will have their passwords reset to that individual who hacked the can.
3. Each size of secure cans will have a default time limit for *****ing its code and it doesn't matter how long the can has been anchored, so GSC cans have longer hacking time than HSC and so on.
4. To unanchor secure cans that are not yours a new module is added so that after a can has been hacked using a code breaker this new module allows the unachoring of that can. This new module requires both the Hacking skill and Anchoring skill to be at lvl 3, this module has a time penalty for unachoring cans that aren't yours which is a 5x time multiplier so that when someone's can is hacked and then this module is activated on it the owner of the can, can come and defend it
5. The act of using the codebreaker module to hack the password will flag the individual, and to prevent mass pirating the ship that hacked the container is the only one allowed to unanchor the can with the module. Also scooping the can with a hauler after another ship hacked and unachored it also flags the person in the hauler since the can is still in the previous owner's name. Secure cans that have been got through this way will also be left with an anchoring delay since the can still needs to be scooped to hold to change owners, it will hold an anchoring delay of say like a day or so since the can is like a piece of evidence, this anchoring delay will also act like the criminal flag for the individuals involved (yes a 1 day agression countdown towards the player or corp)
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Sphit Kar
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Posted - 2008.01.26 18:49:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Sphit Kar on 26/01/2008 18:49:57
This got me thinking much. I used them because they contain more than their own volume LOL
This bothered me greatly to see nearly a hundred anchored GSC once. So much there that I could not anchor a single one for myself. Completely cluttered.  This should be petition material, surely it is already. There should be some policing.
but how? and why?
I happened to appreciate very much all my 9 cans still there after many months of non-play. Taking them away (erasing them from database) would not be very nice. Simply putting them back in the closest station accompanied by a complimentary eve mail would do just fine.
ad cans should have a timer attached, a month or so, then owner must reply to the eve mail in a timely manner to prevent the can from bouncing back in the closest station.
or hire me and I blow them all up.
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Sphit Kar
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Posted - 2008.01.26 19:22:00 -
[116]
Originally by: teapot01
rats nibbling on cans... I like it.
howabaout a rat-trap too:
a fake can that explodes like a powerful
smartbomb when tampered with.
that could resurrect mines... but without the undock zone crapness
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Cyno Down
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:42:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Cyno Down on 04/02/2008 22:43:34
Something Should be done.
I love the fine aspect.
500K fine to the player, 1 million fine to the corporation, 10 Million to the alliance, per can per day after the first week of the can being left out. On the second week all fines double, on the third they double again and forth and last week it doubles again, and if they are not cleaned up on this week they go pop and and the person, corp & alliance members receive a sec decrease of -15%, if there is no payment on the bill the first time the can goes pop and the sec penalty is applied to all members.
i.e.:
1st week after the player who anchored it is fined 500K, the corporation of that player is fined 1 mil, and the alliance of that player is fined 10 mil per can per day of that week.
2nd week 1 mil, 2 mil, 20 mil
3rd week 2 mil, 4 mil, 40 mil
4th week 4 mil, 8 mil, 80 mil
It is almost a guarantee someone will come by and clean it up soon.
This is per can per day of that week.
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K'lia
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:58:00 -
[118]
Sometimes, you know when too much is too much.
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Jason Travers
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Posted - 2008.02.05 01:07:00 -
[119]
THe best way to do away with the secure can is to make jet-can thiving concordable. If you get rid of the orethieves you get rid of the secure can need. becides it takes 1 minute to anchor one and it must not have anything within 5000 meeters.
I use the secure cans in .7 and below because of the ore thieves and it also puts me in posision for making the best of belt. hulks are slow so I use a hauler and the secure can to transfer.
If they got rid of the ore thieves I'd be happy to remove my cans, but until then, NO WAY!
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Aivlys
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Posted - 2008.03.02 23:39:00 -
[120]
I think something does need to be done about the asteroid belt issue, or anywhere things have gotten out of hand to the point where it is adversely affecting day-to-day operations in EVE. I would like to somehow exclude from this places like the eve gate, and the orbital cemetery. I also think container advertising isn't completely unreasonable, and has value to players. The balance between usability (in both traditional and non-traditional manners) and the clear need to reduce the harmful clutter that has accumulated, is something I hope will be well thought out in any final solution..
I haven't the slightest idea how feasible a non-singular solution would be, but if at all possible, that is what I suggest. Here are a few that come to mind at the moment. Probably nothing others haven't also suggested.. .
An anchoring report. I'm pretty sure there are people who have "lost" track of cans they have put out, and might be inclined to fetch them if this were available.
Area specific timers. For instance, Asteroid fields should be "licensed" only for limited durations, with timer resets occurring if the containers is visited by its owner.
Anchoring "fees" for containers in gate and/or station areas. This could be handled much like POS stations in high-sec (charters, as the original poster mentioned); presence of corporate offices or HQ; etc, or just by direct isk charges (which I would avoid in preference of other possibilities)
In some cases a *very* long term anchor removal timers might be in order, or low or zero repercussions for destroying a secure container.
My largest personal point is just that I would hate to see the usefulness of secure container anchoring be damaged. I always want to try to look for solutions that don't cause "some people to ruin it for everyone else" in the end..
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