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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1600
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Posted - 2016.09.28 01:33:40 -
[61] - Quote
Felise Selunix wrote:Cain Aloga wrote:Felise Selunix wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Now, if the Tribal Council sent Keitan Yun instead... Ha! I missed this earlier. Can you imagine? I'm glad that the diplomatic corps has grown a bit more subtle since then... It would appear that Former Ambassador Yun was indeed in attendance. *spit take* They definitely kept that surprise under wraps, though I imagine for good reason. The media firestorm would have been uncontrollable had anyone known beforehand. It's a little odd because I had heard that the Tribal Council was looking to make Yun much less visible even within Republic diplomatic circles. Interesting.
At least Yun knew to hold his tongue this time.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2344
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Posted - 2016.09.28 02:51:39 -
[62] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:At least Yun knew to hold his tongue this time.
Perhaps that was the point: to demonstrate how to actually conduct diplomacy.
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Ayallah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
567
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Posted - 2016.09.28 04:23:57 -
[63] - Quote
Many words about what he might have done, what he wore, and who he brought with him.
Very few about what they may have spoken about.
"Though dissuaded, I came. Though perilous, I served. Though beset, I persevered. Though denied, I believed."
- The Scriptures, Prophet Kuria 12:18
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1600
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Posted - 2016.09.28 04:29:50 -
[64] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Many words about what he might have done, what he wore, and who he brought with him.
Very few about what they may have spoken about.
It is up to the Sanmatar and the Tribal Council to decide whether to reveal what was spoken about.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2345
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Posted - 2016.09.28 05:02:44 -
[65] - Quote
Indeed, a little speculation on possible courses of action, and then we stick to discussing the facts, rather than conjuring up wild stories. When he convenes the Council, he will tell us what he will tell us. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
1667
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 05:09:42 -
[66] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Many words about what he might have done, what he wore, and who he brought with him.
Very few about what they may have spoken about.
Probably about how young people today are all into "dank memes" and don't respect their elders like they used to.
You know, relatively trivial things, due to the whole awkwardness of having to talk to people who in the normal scheme of things you make big long speeches denouncing.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2345
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 05:12:32 -
[67] - Quote
Or perhaps it is because we do respect the Sanmatar that we await his words, rather than trying to put our own in his mouth. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
1667
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 05:39:27 -
[68] - Quote
Well, the occasion was one in which it is more likely to exchange pleasantries, rather than submit long Written lists of demands. Though, what was it ? A half-hour conversation ? There's a lot that would have been said there, beyond just pleasantries.
And I am extrapolating from my own experience at social occasions, whereby a Templar for example, who normally denounces me as a "heretic", actually asked me to dance with him. Gosh !
Also, I want to see pictures of the Empress's outfit. I'm sure Synthia would like to as well.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2376
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Posted - 2016.09.28 05:40:23 -
[69] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:Arrendis wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:As if you could protect her any better than the one she is replacing.
You know that only makes sense if you're claiming credit for killing the last one, right? Honestly, Ronin, this whole routine where you respond to accurate statements with puffed-up chest and bluster doesn't help you. Not one little bit. That only makes sense to a senseless troll. You are dismissed, get a life. Ronin, on behalf of the Minmatar Republic please disengage this conversation before it spoils whatever positive image we have in the cluster. Please?
I did try to warn him.... Oh, well.
About the primary news-- it's intriguing, and hopeful, and a little worrisome.
(Though I think a Drifter strike on the site is unlikely, unlikely to actually cripple anybody, and guaranteed to unite the great powers against them).
(It would also suggest some bizarre things about the Drifters. An advanced civilization with a weird grudge against heads of state?)
(Not that they aren't already a little bizarre.)
Anyhow, I could see this going anywhere from a negotiated end to the "Pendulum War" to a diplomatic fireball, particularly if-- do I understand correctly that there's at least one really notorious, controversial person traveling with the Sanmatar? |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1601
|
Posted - 2016.09.28 05:45:54 -
[70] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Well, the occasion was one in which it is more likely to exchange pleasantries, rather than submit long Written lists of demands. Though, what was it ? A half-hour conversation ? There's a lot that would have been said there, beyond just pleasantries.
And I am extrapolating from my own experience at social occasions, whereby a Templar for example, who normally denounces me as a "heretic", actually asked me to dance with him. Gosh !
Also, I want to see pictures of the Empress's outfit. I'm sure Synthia would like to as well.
So you are asking us to gossip-monger about that half-hour conversation?
No. That will be disrespectful.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2847
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Posted - 2016.09.29 05:28:50 -
[71] - Quote
Pity he survived the trip.
After everything I heard this person did to the Amarr Empire I don't understand why they let him go away without detaining and putting him under trial.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1400
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Posted - 2016.09.29 05:34:10 -
[72] - Quote
Because, Ms Kim, he had the rights and protections of an honoured guest. Rights and protections due to him and his party by virtue of him having been invited.
We don't backstab people that we invite along to parties in good faith.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2389
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Posted - 2016.09.29 05:41:43 -
[73] - Quote
For the record, there's been no news of his return to Republic space. He might be staying for the duration of the celebrations. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2847
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Posted - 2016.09.29 06:13:22 -
[74] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:Because, Ms Kim, he had the rights and protections of an honoured guest. Rights and protections due to him and his party by virtue of him having been invited.
We don't backstab people that we invite along to parties in good faith.
Why would you give honors to a honorless person?...
Why would you invite him to the party and not for imprisonment?...
I understand when you give your word even to honorless person, you have still to follow it. But why give this word at all?...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1401
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Posted - 2016.09.29 06:38:07 -
[75] - Quote
Because the Empress and the Emperor Family chose to extend the invitation, Ms Kim, and it is not for us to argue with them. The Minmatar Republic's head of state has been invited to coronations as a matter of course since the signing of the Yulai treaty that created CONCORD, and this time they chose to accept.
I would personally not second guess my Empress' choice of guest.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Yarosara Ruil
631
|
Posted - 2016.09.29 06:46:28 -
[76] - Quote
Even I know that hurting guests is a crummy thing to do. Specially when they were actually invited. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2847
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Posted - 2016.09.29 06:47:57 -
[77] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:Because the Empress and the Emperor Family chose to extend the invitation, Ms Kim, and it is not for us to argue with them. The Minmatar Republic's head of state has been invited to coronations as a matter of course since the signing of the Yulai treaty that created CONCORD, and this time they chose to accept.
I would personally not second guess my Empress' choice of guest.
I was just trying to understand, Mr. Onzo, but I understand your way of reasoning and I won't pry further if you put it this way.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1401
|
Posted - 2016.09.29 06:57:58 -
[78] - Quote
I can perfectly relate your surprise Ms Kim, as it's one shared by the Amarr. We've all grown accustomed to the idea that the Sanmatar gets his invitation, sent as a curtousy to a fellow head of state, and that he'd then refuse to attend.
It's just this time he chose to come along (and had a good time by all accounts) and well.. If we gave our word, even if expecting it to be flatly refused, we're honour bound to follow it regardless when it's called upon.
Outside of that I can't really debate further because I don't know any more of the details. However, I will speculate from Her Majesty's promises of more foreign trade that it's likely the Empire is seeking a d+¬tente with the Republic and the Sanmatar's acceptance of his invitation is a first step towards a more mutually beneficial relationship. I think any business minded Caldari would look favourably on a deal like that, and it's no different for a business minded Tash-Murkonite like myself.
More trade is good.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Jason Galente
Hole Riders
Spaceship Samurai
758
|
Posted - 2016.09.29 07:18:38 -
[79] - Quote
I'll drink to that, Utari. Hell, maybe the empires aren't so hopeless after all if they can cut this **** out. I doubt it, but hell, I'll be optimistic for once.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Jason Galente
Hole Riders
Spaceship Samurai
758
|
Posted - 2016.09.29 07:20:39 -
[80] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Many words about what he might have done, what he wore, and who he brought with him.
Very few about what they may have spoken about.
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2847
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Posted - 2016.09.29 07:41:57 -
[81] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:I can perfectly relate your surprise Ms Kim, as it's one shared by the Amarr. We've all grown accustomed to the idea that the Sanmatar gets his invitation, sent as a curtousy to a fellow head of state, and that he'd then refuse to attend.
It's just this time he chose to come along (and had a good time by all accounts) and well.. If we gave our word, even if expecting it to be flatly refused, we're honour bound to follow it regardless when it's called upon.
Outside of that I can't really debate further because I don't know any more of the details. However, I will speculate from Her Majesty's promises of more foreign trade that it's likely the Empire is seeking a d+¬tente with the Republic and the Sanmatar's acceptance of his invitation is a first step towards a more mutually beneficial relationship. I think any business minded Caldari would look favourably on a deal like that, and it's no different for a business minded Tash-Murkonite like myself.
More trade is good.
I agree that the more trade is good. But the criminals shall not be left without punishment, and making business deals with criminals is... counterproductive.
From my point of view, peoples like Shakor shall be detained, and if I am correct about Empire laws, enslaved. When the Republic gets lawful representative, then I would understand dealing with them.
Though I myself would recommend to any State aligned corporations to stay away from any dealings with minmatars. They are too unstable and unreliable to make deals with.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Jason Galente
Hole Riders
Spaceship Samurai
760
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Posted - 2016.09.29 07:43:46 -
[82] - Quote
Ok kim.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Matar Ronin
1877
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Posted - 2016.09.29 07:52:01 -
[83] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Utari Onzo wrote:I can perfectly relate your surprise Ms Kim, as it's one shared by the Amarr. We've all grown accustomed to the idea that the Sanmatar gets his invitation, sent as a curtousy to a fellow head of state, and that he'd then refuse to attend.
It's just this time he chose to come along (and had a good time by all accounts) and well.. If we gave our word, even if expecting it to be flatly refused, we're honour bound to follow it regardless when it's called upon.
Outside of that I can't really debate further because I don't know any more of the details. However, I will speculate from Her Majesty's promises of more foreign trade that it's likely the Empire is seeking a d+¬tente with the Republic and the Sanmatar's acceptance of his invitation is a first step towards a more mutually beneficial relationship. I think any business minded Caldari would look favourably on a deal like that, and it's no different for a business minded Tash-Murkonite like myself.
More trade is good.
I agree that the more trade is good. But the criminals shall not be left without punishment, and making business deals with criminals is... counterproductive. From my point of view, peoples like Shakor shall be detained, and if I am correct about Empire laws, enslaved. When the Republic gets lawful representative, then I would understand dealing with them. Though I myself would recommend to any State aligned corporations to stay away from any dealings with minmatars. They are too unstable and unreliable to make deals with. Fortunately no one even in the state is going to listen to a rogue low level militia capsuleer. They hire your type to do the dirty work their important state representatives can't be bothered with. It seems like everyone in New Eden knows you are "special" except you. Oneday I hope you get the psychiatric help you so desperately need. Until then you can perform your role as a blunt instrument of violence that goes home alone because no other human beings can stand you.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2848
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Posted - 2016.09.29 09:01:09 -
[84] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Fortunately no one even in the state is going to listen to a rogue low level militia capsuleer. They hire your type to do the dirty work their important state representatives can't be bothered with. It seems like everyone in New Eden knows you are "special" except you. Oneday I hope you get the psychiatric help you so desperately need. Until then you can perform your role as a blunt instrument of violence that goes home alone because no other human beings can stand you.
This amount of lies and propaganda is a quite vivid example, why peace between the Republic and the State (of course with our allies - the Empire) doesn't look possible at all... well, while peoples like Matar Ronin are alive, of course.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
806
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Posted - 2016.09.29 18:44:47 -
[85] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Matar Ronin wrote:Fortunately no one even in the state is going to listen to a rogue low level militia capsuleer. They hire your type to do the dirty work their important state representatives can't be bothered with. It seems like everyone in New Eden knows you are "special" except you. Oneday I hope you get the psychiatric help you so desperately need. Until then you can perform your role as a blunt instrument of violence that goes home alone because no other human beings can stand you.
This amount of lies and propaganda is a quite vivid example, why peace between the Republic and the State (of course with our allies - the Empire) doesn't look possible at all... well, while peoples like Matar Ronin are alive, of course.
It's a good thing that you don't speak for the State or the Empire. Also, from my perspective, you fall into the same group of loudmouth fools that he does. Cut it out already and save what's left of your dignity... both of you.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
179
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Posted - 2016.09.30 20:18:30 -
[86] - Quote
Hopefully one day Shakor will explain what this move was supposed to achieve. If anyone has the obligation to release tensions between the two empires it's the Amarr. If Catiz wants to come and visit Matar and kiss the ground I'm sure she's welcome to do that without invitation. Doing the first step just shows how far Shakor stands above this pompous institution of an Empress - and nobody call Catiz Tash-Murkon's invitation or all the former invitations to those conceited ceremonies a first step, the hard part to accept was no doubt on Shakor's side.
However, is it appropriate and politically smart for a leader to offer a hand to the villain who murdered and kidnapped his people, holds them in slavery and puts them under drugs, continues to do so and shows no serious sign of regret? Even more confusing is why he brought the man with him who slapped - just well-deservedly and, in regard of the whole history, slightly - in the kidnapper's face. How does that look like? "Now, Keitan, be good and say 'Excuse me! I won't do that again.' to the Lady!" Not to mention how much Shakor's visit smells of begging for a piece of the economic cake everybody expects to emerge from Tash-Murkon's reign.
I'm not a hardliner for the Minmatar cause and would agree to every kind of informal and bilateral cooperation between the empires - on the right level. There are many people, corporations and communities in the Amarr Empire to easily work with if they haven't been brainwashed or even killed by the Amarr's theocratic, old reactionary and diehard institutions. But the head of the Republic in Dam-Torsad is just a level too high and places an unfortunate symbol of weakness rather than greatness of mind.
These are my thoughts, perhaps Shakor's go deeper and are much more refined. Right now I can't see them, but future will show.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1386
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Posted - 2016.09.30 20:25:55 -
[87] - Quote
He did it for a reason, let's wait and see where it goes..... |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1412
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Posted - 2016.09.30 21:19:26 -
[88] - Quote
As a believer in the principles of the Pax Amarria, I for one would welcome bilateral talks to work towards a common ground in both economic and political relations. I am also, however, quite realistic of what giving the real demand here would cost to both of our states.
A gradual work towards reform, progress and reconcilliation is the only sensible option for both parties. There's too many old stakes and old minds still involved on both sides for it to be otherwise, and neither party would cope with an immediate implementation of what I know you are asking for. The example of the Emancipation Decree before should be a lesson to take onboard.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2413
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Posted - 2016.09.30 21:36:16 -
[89] - Quote
Kolmogorow wrote:If Catiz wants to come and visit Matar and kiss the ground I'm sure she's welcome to do that without invitation.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say 'huh, maybe Amarr warships showing up in Matari space uninvited isn't the best way to encourage peaceful relations.' I mean, you know, they've done that before. It didn't go so well for us. Still a little in the way of hard feelings from that one.
Quote:
Doing the first step just shows how far Shakor stands above this pompous institution of an Empress - and nobody call Catiz Tash-Murkon's invitation or all the former invitations to those conceited ceremonies a first step, the hard part to accept was no doubt on Shakor's side.
You know, not that I don't love me some Shakor, but... dumping on the new Empress for having not made more of an effort on behalf of the Empire before she was Empress... it's a little premature.
Quote:
Even more confusing is why he brought the man with him who slapped - just well-deservedly and, in regard of the whole history, slightly - in the kidnapper's face. How does that look like? "Now, Keitan, be good and say 'Excuse me! I won't do that again.' to the Lady!" Not to mention how much Shakor's visit smells of begging for a piece of the economic cake everybody expects to emerge from Tash-Murkon's reign.
Or 'don't make me let him slap you again'. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6449
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Posted - 2016.09.30 22:04:46 -
[90] - Quote
Empress Catiz is still the Empress and, therefore, it is her place to speak to put former Imperial policy in the context of her current Administration's goals. She now has the opportunity to act in continuation, amendment or a break away from previous Imperial policy - but blaming her on the day of her coronation as personally to blame for the acts of former Imperial heads smacks of victimhood. Let her at least get her feed under her first.
As for Shakor and Yun - if I'm not mistaken, the two of them have been politically aligned since well before the Elder Fleet raid. If Keitan Yun accompanies Malateau Shakor on a diplomatic mission then that says that Shakor stands behind Yun's diplomatic record. The fact that Yun didn't fling crap around the place during this mission also says that Yun acts at Shakor's orders and that the Sanmatar is, perhaps, cautiously optimistic that there is something to be won by diplomacy at this point.
It will make any future comments made by Yun all the more credible as a statement of Republic policy, no?
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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