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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2437
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Posted - 2016.10.01 19:53:37 -
[31] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Dracvlad wrote:To the OP, this is one of the things that ruined the game for me, I had played other games as a very successful leader but in this one the ease of spying based on multiple accounts without doing out of game stuff to counter made it immersion breaking, so I crossed running a corp or alliance off my list of things that are fun. I did build a successful corp and was second in command of a sov holding alliance and tried my hand at a virtual alliance, but saw some stuff while doing that that made me think not worth the time to continue as it was just too easy to break up.
The worst one was using your cap assets as a up and coming alliance, it was nail biting stuff which I suppose gives you a buzz when it comes off, but my god the stress level was just a bit much and some people were like oh my god oh my god the entire time they were in space. Quite funny at times though I have to admit. This is the best propaganda statement ever. Which other game offers such nail biting action? Last night my hands were shaking man. Nothing on the killboard - neither losses nor kills; yet I was out all night shooting, getting shot at, dodging camps, scanning, alt-tabbing to dotlan to plot an escape hatch ... same goes for fielding caps. Any other game, you'd just grab your biggest boat and start grinding. In EvE, you're already sweating before undocking it, crossing your fingers nothing goes wrong despite all that power at your command. Ahhh... Best of times <3
I understand exactly what you mean, it is the same buzz as a close fight where you end up with a sliver of hull and you are the last one standing. The thing is I was not so keen on the issue of spying being so easy, I wanted my opponents to have to commit not some third party who will utterly crush me, which was not fun at all. I know you will see the difference, I am totally with you, damn that you are my kinda guy because you really get Eve and are not one of these fake Eve players.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18231
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Posted - 2016.10.01 20:12:40 -
[32] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
I understand exactly what you mean, it is the same buzz as a close fight where you end up with a sliver of hull and you are the last one standing. The thing is I was not so keen on the issue of spying being so easy, I wanted my opponents to have to commit not some third party who will utterly crush me, which was not fun at all. I know you will see the difference, I am totally with you, damn that you are my kinda guy because you really get Eve and are not one of these fake Eve players.
Its only as easy as the target makes it. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4442
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Posted - 2016.10.01 20:51:35 -
[33] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:It's good practice for IRL, BTW.
Get that promotion at work, for example.
Really? That Machiavellian that you spy on your colleagues to get an edge against them for promotion?* * Disclaimer: If you are actually in intelligence, ignore the above. You've never been to Insider Threats training I see. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2437
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Posted - 2016.10.01 21:11:42 -
[34] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
I understand exactly what you mean, it is the same buzz as a close fight where you end up with a sliver of hull and you are the last one standing. The thing is I was not so keen on the issue of spying being so easy, I wanted my opponents to have to commit not some third party who will utterly crush me, which was not fun at all. I know you will see the difference, I am totally with you, damn that you are my kinda guy because you really get Eve and are not one of these fake Eve players.
Its only as easy as the target makes it.
I just found it rather tedious to have to gather real life data for a video game, something I was not prepared to do, so I guess that makes me easy...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
101
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Posted - 2016.10.02 16:52:09 -
[35] - Quote
On a side note, I'd like to put an entire account on red standings, even if I can't see what pilot goes to what account. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1596
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Posted - 2016.10.03 04:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Anyone who thinks spying is easy / risk free / bad for the game has never done it. It's a hunting play-style that requires patience, self control and organisation. Great thing about EvE is you can use someone's trust, cost them billions upon billions and like any fight they can say "Well played." I'm still friends with people i've destroyed, from venture up to captive market level of treachery. Been on both ends of the stick, too. It's a whole 'nother level of play and if you feel bad about it you should shake it off or just...
Git gud.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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L DOPA
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.10.03 09:50:38 -
[37] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote: Entropia Universe is built to allow RMT, it would not work if you could have more than one account, there is a huge difference.
The meta game is all that keeps the game fresh. You might think you don't like it but you would have become bored long ago without it. Related sidenote: This is what happens to people who leave the game because they can never be totally safe even in high sec. They rage quit loudly and go play some other MMO that doesn't have non-consensual pvp....and get bored really really quick because they are totally safe in that game... They didn't realize that the constant danger while playing EVE made their game experience more valuable, and so they come right back to EVE grumbling the whole way at the unfairness of it all Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff). This is more like a bittervet rant about a certain aspect of the game that I hate, after playing it for so many years. It is not an illogical rant, because I pointed out Eve Online is a great game, but this is just a certain aspect that I hate. Just part of EvE. In Pandemic horde we have spies who relay intel, spies who awox, spies who create warpins for ganks, spies who suss out the best hot drop opportunities, we have spies in comms, we probably even have spies who FC and spies who make us dinner after a long day of being spied on...
Its amusing to be scouting for a fleet or gang and something is said on coms and straight away the enemy fleet takes action to react to what we just said...
While I feel a little embarassed for people who go to such lengths to "win" its an accepted part of life in EvE.
L Dopa : Infinity Ziona |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1743
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Posted - 2016.10.03 14:53:34 -
[38] - Quote
L DOPA wrote:While I feel a little embarassed for people who go to such lengths to "win" its an accepted part of life in EvE.
I feel the same way. In general, about Eve. Not knowing whether to applaud going to extreme lengths to win, or not. It does mean the other party must go to equal lengths to even stand a chance. I think a lot of people are willing to put extreme amounts of effort into the game, no matter what aspect, and I'm always lagging behind because I'm just a filthy casual that, well... doesn't. |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
117
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Posted - 2016.10.03 19:19:36 -
[39] - Quote
You're kidding right? EVE is probably the least metagame risky PvP game I've ever encountered.
Corp history, local, too much live statistical info on the map, the massive insane thing that the EVE API has morphed in to, killboards, all that combines in to a game where there is a lot of free and easy intel floating around.
There's not a whole lot a spy can tell your enemy that you can't reliably source from an algorithm anyway. The fact that people PvP more to pad stats than to actually control space or make a profit is an indication of a systemic problem with intelligence avaliability in EVE. There's so little valuable intel that spies actually have to operate at an insanely high level to do anything useful in the first place.
What's left is limited tactical data or day one fleet comps, which are useful, and can decide a battle, but the fact that you're so starved for content that you find fleet ops cancelled often enough to be irritating is due to the conflict of having a game that thrives on entropy coupled with an information mechanism that gives people entirely too many ways to avoid that entropy in the first place. Assets at risk on the field are a pittance compared to the contents of most alliance's banks. Spies aren't all that dangerous in EVE. Thieves on the other hand are potentially catastrophic against the unprepared. The well being of any entity, from the two man corp up to the largest alliance isn't decided by the performance of its fleets. It's decided by the size of its bank.
Here's an experiment:
Remove local.
Remove the API.
Remove corp histories.
Remove the ability to warp anywhere at all with a combat timer active.
THAT is a situation in which spies are actually a constant threat factor to every organization in the game.
What you have now is just a minor inconvenience and an extended job interview. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
635
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Posted - 2016.10.03 19:25:16 -
[40] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly.
Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead.
But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL. |
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
176
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Posted - 2016.10.04 06:03:12 -
[41] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming.
I've participated in fleet fights where the fight did not happen because of spies.
Imagine a bunch of guys sitting down at a table playing poker. There are spectators in the background watching, and each competitor has a spy in the spectator area, reporting which cards the opponent has. This is like a perfect analogy to spies in Eve. Nobody would watch or be interested in the world poker tournament if this happened.
Now I am not sure why the spies do it, perhaps because they want to feel important, or maybe for certain ISK incentives.
In Entropia Universe, I read each player can only have one account/character, and if you have more than one character that's a ban-able offense. This would fix the Spy problem, but Eve Online will never be like that because the game is based on pure sandbox. And so many people have multiple accounts already (I have 5 accounts myself).
Eve Online is the only game that I know of, where people involved in alliance / corporation leadership are so uptight about what they say, because they are worried about leaking intel. Basically everyone can be a potential spy, until they are proven not. And even when they are proven not, they can still be a spy.
So my attitude towards all of this is: hey this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?
Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way?
Sounds like Entropia is doing it right. If you can have altts, you can avoid consequences for actions, which is why is ironic when CCP touts EVE as a game where actions have consequences. Need to ship some war material to your null alt to keep fighting?
Well, you won't pay some hauler exorbitant hauling fees for it, because that would actually promote player interaction and economic behavior. No, you insulate yourself by paying for an alt or more accounts to haul with a neutral character that no one knows is yours, so you can get your stuff to you much more easily, and practically for free.
Nothing wrong with a sizable group of people unhappy with content letting their sub lapse for a week to demonstrate this. I think it is in everyone's interest to send a message, rather than let enough straws build up to break the camel for good.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5290
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Posted - 2016.10.04 07:39:55 -
[42] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming................
Have you considered you are playing the wrong game?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Turelus
Utassi Security
1052
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Posted - 2016.10.04 08:48:13 -
[43] - Quote
Having spent a couple of years play other games with semi-open world PvP I can tell you that spying is a big part of most of them.
For example in Elder Scrolls Online people would have laptops logged into rival faction characters just to watch the map to see where attacks were happening before they flagged up for their own faction.
This is just part of player mentality which is use all means necessary to win. Sometimes it means a fight doesn't happen or a horrible loss, sometimes it means the biggest fights possible or a win when intel reported is bad.
Turelus
CEO Utassi Security
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1601
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Posted - 2016.10.04 11:50:48 -
[44] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.
There's a type of person called 'True-to-self ', one who is honest to a fault. They don't do well but are recognised as the gold that they are in situations like horrible emergencies, disasters or the ravages of war like famine and plague. So they haven't been weeded out by evolution and probably never will be. Some people are just rubbish and label themselves true-to-selfers when really the environment has their number and won't let them advance. Then there's those poor souls who are a bit neurologically divergent and are incapable of lying due to falsehood involving some idea of how things look from another's perspective. They are usually quite intelligent but socially awkward, can be good comedy value but abrasive, blunt and undiplomatic. They can all understand that civilization depends on a lot of low-key falsehood, that it's part of the game, that under pressure it's time for turbo lying, cheating and stealing.
TLDR: Human nature means you not only have to be Good, but you have to get GudGäó as well.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
501
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Posted - 2016.10.04 12:11:09 -
[45] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.
have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians?
it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else.
Just Add Water
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45121
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Posted - 2016.10.04 12:32:41 -
[46] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL. have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians? it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. For a considerable part of my career I worked in the most multi-cultural organisation there is and have never had any negative experience with any colleagues from those nations. In my experience they are some of the most respectful people I've worked with.
If you've had negative experiences, that's down to the individuals, not their race. Just the same as people from any country. There is no 'nation of angels', nor the opposite either.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
501
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Posted - 2016.10.04 12:59:52 -
[47] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL. have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians? it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. For a considerable part of my career I worked in the most multi-cultural organisation there is and have never had any negative experience with any colleagues from those nations. In my experience they are some of the most respectful people I've worked with. If you've had negative experiences, that's down to the individuals, not their race. Just the same as people from any country. There is no 'nation of angels', nor the opposite either.
you obviously didn't work with malayalams aka keralites before. been working with them since 2008 and some of my good friends are keralites. i even attended to one of my keralite friend's daughter's wedding in india, and all of them admits to this special trait of theirs.
Just Add Water
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45121
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Posted - 2016.10.04 13:14:30 -
[48] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:you obviously didn't work with malayalams aka keralites before. That's a bit too much of an assumption. Like I wrote before, nothing but respect from all Indians I have worked with, both in India and from those in my teams and my colleagues at the same level of seniority. It's a complex country, like all countries; but we should probably stop this discussion now.
I'm not trying to change your mind at all, just puting a different experience to the view that they are thieves who will take credit for the work of others (which is what was written above). That's far from my experience.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
639
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Posted - 2016.10.04 13:44:54 -
[49] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians? it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else.
I've worked for fortune 100 companies and current work on wall street in investment management. I will repeat myself, the only people who need to lie and "play the game" to get ahead are the ones who aren't actually good at their jobs. |
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