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Proposed - Dynamic Difficulty for NPC Enemy Gate Groups

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Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 02:57:20 - [1] - Quote I would like to propose a change to npc enemy groups who hang out on low / null sec gates. Currently, gate camp teams are able to sit on a gate (with a citadel just off the gate) and camp the gate for hours at a time. This behavior in places such as Tama / Nour block traffic (mostly new eve subscribers) to Faction Warfare low sec systems. Gate camping is all fine and dandy, however, the gate guns (and mechanics) are a joke. Missions are there for those who enjoy the grinding aspect of the game. Gate camping should not be a permanent grinding mechanic where the grind is on new eve subscribers / players. This pushes new frustrated players out of the game, lowering income for CCP. I propose that npc enemy gate groups grow in ship number, ship size, and ship strength - determined by how much time they spend interacting with real player targets. The idea is that while an npc group is engaged with real players, its difficulty level timer increases. While an npc group is disengaged, its difficulty level timer decreases. The timer starts at 10min. If the timer increases to 20min, the npc group grows (by reinforcement warp in) to the next level of difficulty - and the timer restarts at 10min. If the timer decreases to zero, the npc group shrinks (by partial ship warp off) to the previous level difficulty. If an npc enemy is killed, +30 sec is added to the difficulty timer's current count. If all npc enemies are killed, the difficulty timer can only increase until 20min is reached and the next difficulty level warps in when 20min is reached. Note: The next level difficulty reinforcements group that warps in contains the number of ships that maxes out the number of ships on the gate for the current difficulty level. Example: If difficulty level 1 includes 5 ships, 4 are killed, and then 1 is ignored and damage done by it repaired until the timer runs to 20min, then reinforcements will warp in with 6 ships for a total of 7 ships on the gate. *This assumes diffficulty level 2 is set at 7 ships. With this setup, the first reinforcements will likely not warp in for at least 20min because the initial gate difficulty level timer will have fallen to zero and have to count back up to 20min. After that, each level of reinforcement will take 10min if constantly aggroed. This dynamic gate camp mechanic will force gate camp teams to move around to different gates instead of continually camping only one popular gate. They can come back to their popular gate camp spot once the difficulty level timers have cooled back down. If a gate is camped for an hour, it will take about in hour for the reinforcements to cool back down to initial state.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 447	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:01:19 - [2] - Quote Any good gate-camp will just crush NPC ships and go right back to doing what they were doing, with the added benefit of covered ammo costs. All this does is add one more thing for campers to shoot to cut down on boredom or makes them bring an extra logi/cruiser to tank the NPC+Guns. GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:03:10 - [3] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Any good gate-camp will just crush NPC ships and go right back to doing what they were doing, with the added benefit of covered ammo costs. All this does is add one more thing for campers to shoot to cut down on boredom or makes them bring an extra logi/cruiser to tank the NPC+Guns. Not if the npc enemy group keeps growing in size, ship/size, and strength. Eventually, the npc group will become to much for any camp team to handle. It will become a matter of how long a team is able to camp a gate.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 447	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:14:41 - [4] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Christopher Mabata wrote: Any good gate-camp will just crush NPC ships and go right back to doing what they were doing, with the added benefit of covered ammo costs. All this does is add one more thing for campers to shoot to cut down on boredom or makes them bring an extra logi/cruiser to tank the NPC+Guns. Not if the npc enemy group keeps growing in size, ship/size, and strength. Eventually, the npc group will become to much for any camp team to handle. It will become a matter of how long a team is able to camp a gate. Alright lets say these spawns become impossible to tank, say they put out more raw DPS than an assault incursion site (about 4k raw DPS IIRC) what happens when people start creating those spawns on every single gate to seal a system off? Repeat abusability thats what. Why camp your own gates in null when you can deploy bubbles and seal them off (Which AFAIK NPC's dont shoot), create a spawn on every gate, and then repeat refresh the spawns timer with a frigate or two so your miners and such inside the system or your ratters, or whatever have a haven nobody can get into; not because of their own manpower, but because of mindless NPC Space pixels. GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:18:51 - [5] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Christopher Mabata wrote: Any good gate-camp will just crush NPC ships and go right back to doing what they were doing, with the added benefit of covered ammo costs. All this does is add one more thing for campers to shoot to cut down on boredom or makes them bring an extra logi/cruiser to tank the NPC+Guns. Not if the npc enemy group keeps growing in size, ship/size, and strength. Eventually, the npc group will become to much for any camp team to handle. It will become a matter of how long a team is able to camp a gate. Alright lets say these spawns become impossible to tank, say they put out more raw DPS than an assault incursion site (about 4k raw DPS IIRC) what happens when people start creating those spawns on every single gate to seal a system off? Repeat abusability thats what. Why camp your own gates in null when you can deploy bubbles and seal them off (Which AFAIK NPC's dont shoot), create a spawn on every gate, and then repeat refresh the spawns timer with a frigate or two so your miners and such inside the system or your ratters, or whatever have a haven nobody can get into; not because of their own manpower, but because of mindless NPC Space pixels. The amount of time it takes to build an npc enemy gate group up is equivalent to the amount of time it takes for that npc enemy gate group to die back down. And the team building the npc enemy group up will likely lose ships in the process if not careful. Also, this is not a defensive measure to secure a system. It is meant to limit the amount of time a camp team can camp a gate to get free kills on new players in popular areas. I feel like you did not read the full post and are just commenting based on the title.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 447	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:23:40 - [6] - Quote Oh i read it, i am just telling you now not only will this not work, people will abuse it, and its therefore not good for the game. GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:29:06 - [7] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Oh i read it, i am just telling you now not only will this not work, people will abuse it, and its therefore not good for the game. Please feel free to tell me how it will not work. I think your mindset is all Null sec, but there is a constant camp on tama / nour. People can not just keep throwing more ships at a gate to support the camp. Eventually the camp team will be pushed / destroyed off the gate. As far as abusing goes, I have no problems warping through a gate with any number of npc enemies on it. No matter how big the npc group got, a solo ship would still have no problem getting through the gate. The only threat here is to people who sit on the gate instead of just jumping through it and moving on. It doesnt prevent camping, just puts a limit on camping time for any one gate.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3541	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:31:19 - [8] - Quote Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sitting Bull Lakota SBL Co 169	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:31:39 - [9] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Not if the npc enemy group keeps growing in size, ship/size, and strength. Eventually, the npc group will become to much for any camp team to handle. It will become a matter of how long a team is able to camp a gate. This would not fit thematically with EvE's core tenet of being completely player driven. NPCs that can break a gatecamp are npcs that break the game. The camp, being player made, must be defeated by players and not some arbitrary mechanic. CONCORD is the only npc of this nature that we should tolerate. /glares at faction police
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:33:04 - [10] - Quote Sitting Bull Lakota wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Not if the npc enemy group keeps growing in size, ship/size, and strength. Eventually, the npc group will become to much for any camp team to handle. It will become a matter of how long a team is able to camp a gate. This would not fit thematically with EvE's core tenet of being completely player driven. NPCs that can break a gatecamp are npcs that break the game. The camp, being player made, must be defeated by players and not some arbitrary mechanic. CONCORD is the only npc of this nature that we should tolerate. /glares at faction police* But yet, their exist gate guns, seekers, drifters, etc that wipe out plenty of ships / fleets. Not to mention current gate npc enemies that will down any solo frigate that sits on a gate near them.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:39:59 - [11] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Its not fun for players who like to solo pvp is it? Fun is determined differently by everyone. One shouldn't have to go around (ten jumps longer) to do some solo faction warfare because "snuffed out" constantly sits on tama / nour. They even call it #TeamTama, where they are mostly just wiping out noobs who don't know any better.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 447	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:48:20 - [12] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Its not fun for players who like to solo pvp is it? Fun is determined differently by everyone. One shouldn't have to go around (ten jumps longer) to do some solo faction warfare because "snuffed out" constantly sits on tama / nour. They even call it #TeamTama, where they are mostly just wiping out noobs who don't know any better. You don't "Have to" go 10 jumps, you could just you know, live in the pocket and use a travel fit ceptor to get in and out, or a pod. Or you could just go somewhere else. This game doesnt cater to just the solo player. GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:56:11 - [13] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Its not fun for players who like to solo pvp is it? Fun is determined differently by everyone. One shouldn't have to go around (ten jumps longer) to do some solo faction warfare because "snuffed out" constantly sits on tama / nour. They even call it #TeamTama, where they are mostly just wiping out noobs who don't know any better. You don't "Have to" go 10 jumps, you could just you know, live in the pocket and use a travel fit ceptor to get in and out, or a pod. Or you could just go somewhere else. This game doesnt cater to just the solo player. Not an option for new players. Especially when state clones come out.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 447	Posted - 2016.10.02 03:58:28 - [14] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Its not fun for players who like to solo pvp is it? Fun is determined differently by everyone. One shouldn't have to go around (ten jumps longer) to do some solo faction warfare because "snuffed out" constantly sits on tama / nour. They even call it #TeamTama, where they are mostly just wiping out noobs who don't know any better. You don't "Have to" go 10 jumps, you could just you know, live in the pocket and use a travel fit ceptor to get in and out, or a pod. Or you could just go somewhere else. This game doesnt cater to just the solo player. Not an option for new players. Especially when state clones come out. So new players cant dock ships in stations inside the pocket then travel in pods? Alpha clones dont even get pods and have to use jetpacks and an O2 tank? Its not that it isn't an option its that its not the way You want it to be and so you want it changed via a bad mechanic as others have pointed out. GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:05:55 - [15] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Its not fun for players who like to solo pvp is it? Fun is determined differently by everyone. One shouldn't have to go around (ten jumps longer) to do some solo faction warfare because "snuffed out" constantly sits on tama / nour. They even call it #TeamTama, where they are mostly just wiping out noobs who don't know any better. You don't "Have to" go 10 jumps, you could just you know, live in the pocket and use a travel fit ceptor to get in and out, or a pod. Or you could just go somewhere else. This game doesnt cater to just the solo player. Not an option for new players. Especially when state clones come out. So new players cant dock ships in stations inside the pocket then travel in pods? Alpha clones dont even get pods and have to use jetpacks and an O2 tank? Its not that it isn't an option its that its not the way You want it to be and so you want it changed via a bad mechanic as others have pointed out. Ok, so there is a problem with a team gate camping tama / nour 24/7, mainly camping new players for their isk. Since my solution is so bad, I challenge you to provide a solution instead of just whining about how bad my solution is and how much it wont work.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 447	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:13:23 - [16] - Quote Why is someone camping a system a problem? if they have the manpower to camp a system that is free game then they in essence own the space. No problem with that. So here are your solutions: - Coordinate with millita forces, crash the camp - Hire mercenaries - bring friends crash the camp - bring your enemies and crash the camp - go around - go somewhere else (FW occurs outside of tama you know ) - use a travel fit ship to go in and out, keep FW ships within the pocket docked in stations outside of problem systems - deploy a citadel if there are no stations that meet your liking - cyno navigation exists in low sec, why not use it? - hire haulers to move your things in and out via JF's, and then move to your things with a travel ship - covert ops are also a thing, and notorious for going through LS gatecamps - use your pod to go in and out, or a shuttle in lieu of a ceptor for skill or finance reasons - jump clones - remote home station settings once per 365 days - Join them if you cant beat them - Join another FW millitia - Join the enemy millitia - Develop gate tactical bookmarks to dodge camps easier - learn to D-scan so you know if your about to land on a red gate - Intel channels Should i go on? Or are these enough totally player driven mechanics to bypass one of the most known camped Faction warfare systems outside Amamake? GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1105	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:14:41 - [17] - Quote If you want to get rid of gate camps, then organise some players and go do it. Get **** with the NPC's should do it **. Stop being a carebear scrub and take responsibility for it yourself. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:16:28 - [18] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: If you want to get rid of gate camps, then organise some players and go do it. Get **** with the NPC's should do it **. Stop being a carebear scrub and take responsibility for it yourself. Why dont you gate campers get off your lazy ass and play the game, instead of stealing isk from new players looking for a little pvp. See, I can do it too.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3541	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:17:47 - [19] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Its not fun for players who like to solo pvp is it? Fun is determined differently by everyone. One shouldn't have to go around (ten jumps longer) to do some solo faction warfare because "snuffed out" constantly sits on tama / nour. They even call it #TeamTama, where they are mostly just wiping out noobs who don't know any better. And neither should the efforts of players be completely overpowered by npc mechanics because you think you're entitled to go somewhere you're not. Eve is a game where the players are the content. You want to get through a camp? Earn it. Put in the effort, the time and the skill to either slip by or force your way through. Get 100 noobs and roflstomp the camp in dessies and t1 cruisers. Do that and you'll understand what makes eve the amazing game it is. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:18:55 - [20] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: If you want to get rid of gate camps, then organise some players and go do it. Get **** with the NPC's should do it **. Stop being a carebear scrub and take responsibility for it yourself. Why dont you gate campers get off your lazy ass and play the game, instead of stealing isk from new players looking for a little pvp. See, I can do it too. I'm not a gate camper idiot. Assumptions are stupid. As for gate campers being lazy. Lol from the guy asking for NPCs to take care of it so he doesn't have to. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:24:08 - [21] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Its not fun for players who like to solo pvp is it? Fun is determined differently by everyone. One shouldn't have to go around (ten jumps longer) to do some solo faction warfare because "snuffed out" constantly sits on tama / nour. They even call it #TeamTama, where they are mostly just wiping out noobs who don't know any better. And neither should the efforts of players be completely overpowered by npc mechanics because you think you're entitled to go somewhere you're not. Eve is a game where the players are the content. You want to get through a camp? Earn it. Put in the effort, the time and the skill to either slip by or force your way through. Get 100 noobs and roflstomp the camp in dessies and t1 cruisers. Do that and you'll understand what makes eve the amazing game it is. What about your assumed right to sit on a gate and camp noobs. Bottom line, its a game. CCP is in it to make a profit not to take care of the good old boy club. If the solution will make them more money through more subscribers who dont rage quite, then its a good solution. This solution balances out the ability to get camped and the ability to camp. It doesnt favor one or the other. It forces campers to move around to different gates. It keeps getting mentioned that the game is player driven - but their are so many npc isk drains in this game. This is just one more than makes people actually play the game to earn isk.
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:25:47 - [22] - Quote The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. Additionally, by default the game warns you when you are about to jump into lowsec. A popup box on screen asking if you are sure you want to do that. If you continue at that point, then that's your responsibility. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:26:31 - [23] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: If you want to get rid of gate camps, then organise some players and go do it. Get **** with the NPC's should do it **. Stop being a carebear scrub and take responsibility for it yourself. Why dont you gate campers get off your lazy ass and play the game, instead of stealing isk from new players looking for a little pvp. See, I can do it too. I'm not a gate camper idiot. Assumptions are stupid. As for gate campers being lazy. Lol from the guy asking for NPCs to take care of it so he doesn't have to. It's not a problem for me.... I've stated that I live in lowsec. I don't think my status is ever anything but suspect. :) Im just tired of seeing #teamtama and others sit on popular gates and act like its an atm machine.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:27:42 - [24] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. A few extra jumps is more like 15 extra jumps if you want to get into tama but have to go around.
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:29:25 - [25] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. A few extra jumps is more like 15 extra jumps if you want to get into tama but have to go around. If you want to get into Tama then you already know the issue and should plan accordingly. Don't click yes to the popup asking if you are sure you want to jump into lowsec. Such a stupid thread. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 448	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:31:18 - [26] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. A few extra jumps is more like 15 extra jumps if you want to get into tama but have to go around. If you look at my list i noted a solution to this on bullet point (A)#6 "Go somewhere else" GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:33:00 - [27] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. A few extra jumps is more like 15 extra jumps if you want to get into tama but have to go around. If you look at my list i noted a solution to this on bullet point (A)#6 "Go somewhere else" Not replying to your comments anymore... its pointless
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:34:28 - [28] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. A few extra jumps is more like 15 extra jumps if you want to get into tama but have to go around. If you look at my list i noted a solution to this on bullet point (A)#6 "Go somewhere else" Yes. No need for a weak minded "I don't like how someone else plays. CCP please stop them playing that way because only I'm allowed to play the way I want" thread. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3542	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:35:03 - [29] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: What about your assumed right to sit on a gate and camp noobs. Bottom line, its a game. CCP is in it to make a profit not to take care of the good old boy club. If the solution will make them more money through more subscribers who dont rage quite, then its a good solution. This solution balances out the ability to get camped and the ability to camp. It doesnt favor one or the other. It forces campers to move around to different gates. It keeps getting mentioned that the game is player driven - but their are so many npc isk drains in this game. This is just one more than makes people actually play the game to earn isk. There is no right to sit on a camp. They earned it by putting in the man power and the effort. It's open season on them for anyone who wants to take a shot. If no one tries to stop them thats not their fault. Hand holding carebears does not increase subs. The players who quit because of getting shot at are never going to play eve for long. They'll quit when they get ganked, or wardecced or any of the million of ways their day can be ruined in this game. Even if they don't get attacked, they are statistically unlikely to last before they get bored and leave. Don't cater to these players. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 449	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:36:51 - [30] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. A few extra jumps is more like 15 extra jumps if you want to get into tama but have to go around. If you look at my list i noted a solution to this on bullet point (A)#6 "Go somewhere else" Not replying to your comments anymore... its pointless now you know what the rest of us feel like trying to tell you that A- Gatecamps aren't a problem B- Your idea is bad C- There are other solutions D- Existing game mechanics are working as intended Welcome to F&I GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:37:56 - [31] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: What about your assumed right to sit on a gate and camp noobs. Bottom line, its a game. CCP is in it to make a profit not to take care of the good old boy club. If the solution will make them more money through more subscribers who dont rage quite, then its a good solution. This solution balances out the ability to get camped and the ability to camp. It doesnt favor one or the other. It forces campers to move around to different gates. It keeps getting mentioned that the game is player driven - but their are so many npc isk drains in this game. This is just one more than makes people actually play the game to earn isk. There is no right to sit on a camp. They earned it by putting in the man power and the effort. It's open season on them for anyone who wants to take a shot. If no one tries to stop them thats not their fault. Hand holding carebears does not increase subs. The players who quit because of getting shot at are never going to play eve for long. They'll quit when they get ganked, or wardecced or any of the million of ways their day can be ruined in this game. Even if they don't get attacked, they are statistically unlikely to last before they get bored and leave. Don't cater to these players. Im glad you dont work for CCP... Game would have been dead long ago.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 449	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:40:40 - [32] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: What about your assumed right to sit on a gate and camp noobs. Bottom line, its a game. CCP is in it to make a profit not to take care of the good old boy club. If the solution will make them more money through more subscribers who dont rage quite, then its a good solution. This solution balances out the ability to get camped and the ability to camp. It doesnt favor one or the other. It forces campers to move around to different gates. It keeps getting mentioned that the game is player driven - but their are so many npc isk drains in this game. This is just one more than makes people actually play the game to earn isk. There is no right to sit on a camp. They earned it by putting in the man power and the effort. It's open season on them for anyone who wants to take a shot. If no one tries to stop them thats not their fault. Hand holding carebears does not increase subs. The players who quit because of getting shot at are never going to play eve for long. They'll quit when they get ganked, or wardecced or any of the million of ways their day can be ruined in this game. Even if they don't get attacked, they are statistically unlikely to last before they get bored and leave. Don't cater to these players. Im glad you dont work for CCP... Game would have been dead long ago. Almost got the full bingo sheet here, keep going page 3 awaits GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:41:05 - [33] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: The easiest solution of all is to not go through the Nourv gate and take a few extra jumps. Simple and effective. A few extra jumps is more like 15 extra jumps if you want to get into tama but have to go around. If you look at my list i noted a solution to this on bullet point (A)#6 "Go somewhere else" Not replying to your comments anymore... its pointless now you know what the rest of us feel like trying to tell you that A- Gatecamps aren't a problem B- Your idea is bad C- There are other solutions D- Existing game mechanics are working as intended Welcome to F&I Gatecamping is not a problem. Gate camping the same gate 24/7 as a method of grinding is a problem. If you want to grind, go do missions. If npc gate enemies that you cant just ignore are a problem for you... well go cry yourself to sleep.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 449	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:44:48 - [34] - Quote Your missing the vital point here that 3 people have said, Its not a method of grinding, its content generation both for the people camping and those jumping into these gatecamps, if you don't understand that your missing a vital point within PVP in EVE. GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:45:35 - [35] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: The idea of having gate guns and npc's that can just be ignored for the most part is pointless. Just get rid of them. They are pointless as is. The guys who do it obviously find a point in doing so. The beauty of a sandbox based game. Everyone has their choice. Why don't you outline your gameplay in a post and we will propose lots of mechanics to nerf it completely. That's fair right? I should totally be able to determine what is ok for you to choose to do. Surely. After all, that's what this thread is about. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:47:51 - [36] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Your missing the vital point here that 3 people have said, Its not a method of grinding, its content generation both for the people camping and those jumping into these gatecamps, if you don't understand that your missing a vital point within PVP in EVE. No one is saying you cant gate camp or that its wrong. But when you set up a citadel right next to tama and warp back and forth for quick repairs to sit on the gate for half the day killing noobs going to do some faction warfare... I call that grinding. My solution only requires gatecamps to move around and come back so that no gate can be camped 24 / 7.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:49:33 - [37] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The idea of having gate guns and npc's that can just be ignored for the most part is pointless. Just get rid of them. They are pointless as is. They aren't pointless at all. Sentry guns are often used defensively (to avoid a fight) and/or gain assistance in a fight. As for the gate campers, the guys who do it obviously find a point in doing so. The beauty of a sandbox based game. Everyone has their choice. Why don't you outline your gameplay in a post and we will propose lots of mechanics to nerf it completely. That's fair right? I should totally be able to determine what is ok for you to choose to do. Surely. After all, that's what this thread is about. It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day.
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:52:44 - [38] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Your use of the 'think of the children argument' is one of the most ridiculous arguments ever for a mechanics change. There is a warning popup by default that requires a player to accept the danger of jumping into lowsec. If a player accepts that danger then it's not the gate campers fault. Can't switch the responsibility after the fact. "Oh yeah, I knew I was jumping into potential danger, but it's not fair that it happened". That is a very, very weak argument. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 449	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:54:29 - [39] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The idea of having gate guns and npc's that can just be ignored for the most part is pointless. Just get rid of them. They are pointless as is. They aren't pointless at all. Sentry guns are often used defensively (to avoid a fight) and/or gain assistance in a fight. As for the gate campers, the guys who do it obviously find a point in doing so. The beauty of a sandbox based game. Everyone has their choice. Why don't you outline your gameplay in a post and we will propose lots of mechanics to nerf it completely. That's fair right? I should totally be able to determine what is ok for you to choose to do. Surely. After all, that's what this thread is about. It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Sandbox game They dont have to move They can sit there and get kills if they have the manpower to do it its content for them and everyone else they aren't farming, theyre playing the game; as intended NPC's shouldn't ever be the ones to break up player gatherings that are permitted by the game mechanics why should they have to move? why is their gameplay subject to change and not yours? These are the points your still missing GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 3	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:54:55 - [40] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Your use of the 'think of the children argument' is one of the most ridiculous arguments ever for a mechanics change. There is a warning popup by default that requires a player to accept the danger of jumping into lowsec. If a player accepts that danger then it's not the gate campers fault. Can't switch the responsibility after the fact. "Oh yeah, I knew I was jumping into potential danger, but it's not fair that it happened". That is a very, very weak argument. Well the thread like count keeps going up so please, keep telling me how weak you think it is.
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 22	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:57:20 - [41] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: The idea of having gate guns and npc's that can just be ignored for the most part is pointless. Just get rid of them. They are pointless as is. They aren't pointless at all. Sentry guns are often used defensively (to avoid a fight) and/or gain assistance in a fight. As for the gate campers, the guys who do it obviously find a point in doing so. The beauty of a sandbox based game. Everyone has their choice. Why don't you outline your gameplay in a post and we will propose lots of mechanics to nerf it completely. That's fair right? I should totally be able to determine what is ok for you to choose to do. Surely. After all, that's what this thread is about. It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Sandbox game They dont have to move They can sit there and get kills if they have the manpower to do it its content for them and everyone else they aren't farming, theyre playing the game; as intended NPC's shouldn't ever be the ones to break up player gatherings that are permitted by the game mechanics why should they have to move? why is their gameplay subject to change and not yours? These are the points your still missing The thing you are missing is that its not about the game's original content and what it is meant to be. Its about making the game fun and interactive for all. CCP has every right to change a game mechanic that will make them more money. Both through more NPC related kills and happier solo / small gangs players. Now that they are coming out with clone states, their will be a lot of new first time players. CCP definitely doesn't want to push these players out of the game. This change is beneficial in making CCP more money, bottom line.
Christopher Mabata Sentinel Incorporium 449	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:58:05 - [42] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Your use of the 'think of the children argument' is one of the most ridiculous arguments ever for a mechanics change. There is a warning popup by default that requires a player to accept the danger of jumping into lowsec. If a player accepts that danger then it's not the gate campers fault. Can't switch the responsibility after the fact. "Oh yeah, I knew I was jumping into potential danger, but it's not fair that it happened". That is a very, very weak argument. Well the thread like count keeps going up so please, keep telling me how weak you think it is. You are aware thats counting total likes in the thread? Not of the thread itself? And if you look those likes if they even matter, which they don't are distributed among the 3-4 others here and not your post Your understanding of forum mechanics is as weak as your understanding of low sec game mechanics GÖú Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry GÖú 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing GÖú This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 04:58:42 - [43] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Your use of the 'think of the children argument' is one of the most ridiculous arguments ever for a mechanics change. There is a warning popup by default that requires a player to accept the danger of jumping into lowsec. If a player accepts that danger then it's not the gate campers fault. Can't switch the responsibility after the fact. "Oh yeah, I knew I was jumping into potential danger, but it's not fair that it happened". That is a very, very weak argument. Well the thread like count keeps going up so please, keep telling me how weak you think it is. Oh god. Now you think likes mean something. Hang on. I'll go like all your posts. I still think they are stupid and ridiculous and extremely weak, but that's the choice I have, to like rubbish posts anyway. Likes mean absolutely squat, and they certainly don't mean an argument is good. It could very well be liked by other idiots. As per the edit I made above, if a players accepts this warning: https://puu.sh/ruQ3m/03af725dfa.png and then dies, their responsibility. Edit: You just went from 3 to 22 likes after that run. You must feel like a total pro game designer now. Go you. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Erich Einstein Swoop Salvage 22	Posted - 2016.10.02 05:02:13 - [44] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Your use of the 'think of the children argument' is one of the most ridiculous arguments ever for a mechanics change. There is a warning popup by default that requires a player to accept the danger of jumping into lowsec. If a player accepts that danger then it's not the gate campers fault. Can't switch the responsibility after the fact. "Oh yeah, I knew I was jumping into potential danger, but it's not fair that it happened". That is a very, very weak argument. Well the thread like count keeps going up so please, keep telling me how weak you think it is. Oh god. Now you think likes mean something. Hang on. I'll go like all your posts. I still think they are stupid and ridiculous and extremely weak, but that's the choice I have, to like rubbish posts anyway. Likes mean absolutely squat, and they certainly don't mean an argument is good. It could very well be liked by other idiots. As per the edit I made above, if a players accepts this warning: https://puu.sh/ruQ3m/03af725dfa.png and then dies, their responsibility. Edit: You just went from 3 to 22 likes after that run. You must feel like a total pro game designer now. Go you. Its visibility... Thats all I care about.
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2016.10.02 05:12:51 - [45] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Its visibility... Thats all I care about. Good luck with that. This from the CSM Minutes just released: Mr Hyde brought up the topic of Interdiction and Nullification. He asked whether there was any consideration to making a difference between the anchored bubbles and the other types of bubbles. This would allow for nullification to then work against only anchored bubbles. This means that manned gatecamps can counter groups that currently just slip through, encouraging people to gate camp again. Nullsec focused, not lowsec; however there is no difference in the concept of gatecamping in low or null. If members of the CSM are trying to find ways to encourage gate camping, then us randoms in the forum are pushing water up hill against that. If you want visibility though, you need to post it on Reddit, not here. There isn't anywhere near the visibility here that you expect. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3545	Posted - 2016.10.02 05:20:13 - [46] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Im glad you dont work for CCP... Game would have been dead long ago. And if you worked for ccp there would never have been an eve. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Valkin Mordirc 2546	Posted - 2016.10.02 06:01:04 - [47] - Quote This guy is priceless. First he wants +5 WCS now he wants NPC to crash gates for him. To bad botting isn't allowed. He'd be all over that. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4828	Posted - 2016.10.02 07:19:17 - [48] - Quote I am looking at tama on zkill right now. Are the navy maulus, gold pods, brutix, zealots, bombers, covops, VNIs, navy slicers and all the rest the hallmarks of the 'noob farming' you're complaining about? When I've camped the tama gate, it's rarely newbies that come in. And newbies don't HAVE any isk to grind either.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 13017	Posted - 2016.10.02 10:23:42 - [49] - Quote Why do you insist on making threads that suggest transforming New Eden into a hand-holdy, theme-parky kind of place? GTFO and take your toxic electrons with you, kindly Ironically, Erich is no Einstein when it comes to EVE. https://zkillboard.com/character/95683889/ This may have something to do with the endless tears - four ships and two pods lost in Tama on the same day! Haw, haw Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . Bumble's Space Log
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1113	Posted - 2016.10.02 11:17:24 - [50] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: https://zkillboard.com/character/95683889/ This may have something to do with the endless tears - four ships and two pods lost in Tama on the same day! Haw, haw Definition of stupid right there. Same thing, over and over and over. Same outcome over and over and over. He's lost ships going through all the main gate camped gates into Gal-Cal FW space. Such fail and so easy to avoid. @OP, some tips: Old Man Star from Villore: Instead go Villore -> Allamotte -> Vifrevaert (lowsec) -> Ladistier -> Old Man Star The Allamotte gate in Vifrevaert is never camped. It's just a FW farming system. Safe as highsec. Alternatively go Villore -> Pimene -> Mesybier -> Murethand (lowsec) Also never camped into Murethand and lots of ways to go from there. You can also go Mesybier -> Orvolle -> Oulley (lowsec) and also many ways from there. Ostingele from Stacmon: Instead go Stacmon -> Dastryns -> Ostingele 1 more jump and Dastryns is almost never camped. I think I've seen it camped once in the last 4 years. Tama from Nourvakaiken: Instead avoid Tama gate and go to Tierjev -> Tannolen (lowsec) 3 jumps from Tama and Tannolen is never camped. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 1016	Posted - 2016.10.02 15:18:19 - [51] - Quote Read the first page scanned the rest. One terrible aspect of this that I have not seen addressed is the simple fact that this would (at least temporarily) replace an impassable player created gate camp with a nearly impassable NPC gate camp, here is an example. The NPC have grown strong enough that a 5 ship player gate camp cannot stay in the area so they leave. Just a few moments later one of those new players the OP is so concerned about jumps solo into this angry hornets nest of NPC on his way to his first ever faction war encounter and what happens to him? Do the NPC ignore him? Do they kill him instantly because he has no prayer of tanking the damage even long enough to warp away. Can he even warp away or would these NPC have scrams? If he dies to the NPC is that really any different than dying to a player group? A personal story to relate that may apply to these situations. This characters first ever low sec journey ended at the high to low gate due to a gate camp. The folks that destroyed my shiny new ship then sat there for 30 minutes protecting my pod from all comers while we talked in local about what I could have done differently and about game play options that I never knew existed. Would the NPC have sat at that gate and talk to me? At the end -1 to your idea. I understand what you want to achieve but your idea will do nothing to solve the problems you are trying to solve.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2712	Posted - 2016.10.02 15:30:18 - [52] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Its much more fun for everyone when players form together and remove gate camps themselves. If you get npc's to do it for you that makes for a **** game. Not empty quoting. Also, I subtract three points for your "think of the noobies" argument. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2712	Posted - 2016.10.02 15:38:14 - [53] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: It's not a nerf... Its a get off your ass and move around mechanic. Stop farming noobs all day. Your use of the 'think of the children argument' is one of the most ridiculous arguments ever for a mechanics change. There is a warning popup by default that requires a player to accept the danger of jumping into lowsec. If a player accepts that danger then it's not the gate campers fault. Can't switch the responsibility after the fact. "Oh yeah, I knew I was jumping into potential danger, but it's not fair that it happened". That is a very, very weak argument. Well the thread like count keeps going up so please, keep telling me how weak you think it is. Yes, but only because all the posts saying that your idea is terrible are getting "liked." That's not a ringing endorsement of your idea. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

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