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Dagger Micstilson
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 00:41:21 -
[1] - Quote
After Novembers update, a single bumper will be able to knock boosting ships out of range of the barges they support in High sec. The connection between limited mining range boosting and bumping cannot be denied.
There are upgrades for miners this upcoming patch, its true. But at the cost?
The cost being the mining bumping will now actually effect mining production, and be able to stop mining boosting all together in high sec, and this is unacceptable. Actually bumping boosting Orcas out of range will soon be a reality. Gankers/bumpers will now be able to ****** and cripple high sec mining ops at will with no more then a bumping ship.
This requires attention and if it does not receive any in the next week, it will be spread through the mining community.
This is a deliberate attack on miners, not just multiboxers, in a Trojan horse 'esc' in sheeps clothing to make it look like a great favor while completely screwing high sec mining, especially multiboxing.
This is an attack on high sec minors. |

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2441
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 00:48:03 -
[2] - Quote
Dagger Micstilson wrote:
This is an attack on high sec minors.
Oh, great. "Won't somebody think of the children?!?" has come to Eve. 
Amusing homophones aside, just buy a permit and you won't have a problem.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
143
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Posted - 2016.10.12 00:51:30 -
[3] - Quote
Dagger Micstilson wrote: This requires attention
Indeed it does!
As long as you're not AFK you probably won't be bumped! Pay attention and keep giving boosts!
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45137
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 00:53:35 -
[4] - Quote
Every silver lining has a cloud.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Chapo Muerte
The Conference Elite CODE.
43
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 00:53:39 -
[5] - Quote
Dagger Micstilson wrote:
This is an attack on high sec minors.
Code doesn't do that :p |

Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
49
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 00:54:39 -
[6] - Quote
Issuing the devs an ultimatum.
Spreading rumors about dev corruption.
Thinking the CSM has any power.
Pffffff lol
IB4L |

Loutro Fift
The Killer Cockatoos Initiative Mercenaries
21
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 00:56:39 -
[7] - Quote
Bump.
[sorry, couldn't resist] |

Zula Terra
The Conference Elite CODE.
13
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Posted - 2016.10.12 00:59:59 -
[8] - Quote
CODE. is a peaceful organization trying to protect miners from themselves, please stop framing us in a bad light.
We are very pro miner.
Get a mining permit though, gota join the union to have safety.
Top tier pvper and one of directors of The Conference Elite, recruiting is very selective.
|

Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1027
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 01:28:34 -
[9] - Quote
This is exactly where the Porpoise will fit in. For a small reduction of 1% of yield you will have a smaller more maneuverable ship to boost fleets with.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|

Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
49
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 01:31:38 -
[10] - Quote
"They've adapted!"
-Worf, son of Mogh |

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
739
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 01:48:41 -
[11] - Quote
A single bumper won't be able to do much to a booster if said booster is being intelligent. Also, if the booster doesn't have level 1 skills. Fit a Higgs rig, drop an MTU in the center of a belt, and orbit it at a few km.
The Orca, with zero Leadership skills, will have a 22.5km link, which is enough to reach all but the most extreme edges of any highsec static belt. The miners don't need to be humping the rocks at the outer edges at 0 to mine them, so they should be well within this very minimum range.
Add in level V Leadership skills (+6% range per level, or +30% at level IV) and that 22.5km range is now 29.25km.
Add in level V Wing Command (+5% range per level, or +25% at level IV) and that 29.25km range is now 36.56km.
Add in level IV Fleet Command (+4% range per level, or +16% at level IV) and that 36.56km range is now 42.4km.
Most highsec static belts are roughly 50km across, and your boost range with those skills is 86km across.
If you've gotten bumped far enough in an Orca in a highsec static belt that your miners are out of range of their boosts, you've managed to do something very, very wrong.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Dagger Micstilson
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 02:09:51 -
[12] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:A single bumper won't be able to do much to a booster if said booster is being intelligent. Also, if the booster doesn't have level 1 skills. Fit a Higgs rig, drop an MTU in the center of a belt, and orbit it at a few km.
The Orca, with zero Leadership skills, will have a 22.5km link, which is enough to reach all but the most extreme edges of any highsec static belt. The miners don't need to be humping the rocks at the outer edges at 0 to mine them, so they should be well within this very minimum range.
Add in level V Leadership skills (+6% range per level, or +30% at level IV) and that 22.5km range is now 29.25km.
Add in level V Wing Command (+5% range per level, or +25% at level IV) and that 29.25km range is now 36.56km.
Add in level IV Fleet Command (+4% range per level, or +16% at level IV) and that 36.56km range is now 42.4km.
Most highsec static belts are roughly 50km across, and your boost range with those skills is 86km across.
If you've gotten bumped far enough in an Orca in a highsec static belt that your miners are out of range of their boosts, you've managed to do something very, very wrong.
Nothing of you said is true. And a bumper will hit for at least 70k against an Orca, first bump.
The Idea of being AFK making any difference is a fools argument. |

Paranoid Loyd
9649
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 02:19:33 -
[13] - Quote
I see the new salt factories are coming online right on schedule, I guess that's not a bad thing, the old ones certainly are worn out.
Good to see the final quarter is off to a strong start.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
|

Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 02:30:24 -
[14] - Quote
Dagger Micstilson wrote:Rather you're AFK or not, it wont matter... You wont be able to get back in range fast enough too boost your fleet. After Novembers update, a single bumper will be able to knock boosting ships out of range of the barges they support in High sec. The connection between limited mining range boosting and bumping cannot be denied.
There are upgrades for miners this upcoming patch, its true. But at the cost?
The cost being the mining bumping will now actually effect mining production, and be able to stop mining boosting all together in high sec, and this is unacceptable. Actually bumping boosting Orcas out of range will soon be a reality. Gankers/bumpers will now be able to cripple high sec mining ops at will with no more then a bumping ship.
This requires attention and if it does not receive any in the next week, it will be spread through the mining community.
This is a deliberate attack on miners, not just multiboxers, in a Trojan horse 'esc' in sheeps clothing to make it look like a great favor while completely screwing high sec mining, especially multiboxing.
This is an attack on high sec minors.
CCP once again has Goons/CODE working within its CSM ranks to ruin industry. It would be as funny as hell to watch people bump orcas 30+ km to stop the boosts, that is going to take a while :)
If someone is that AFK then I doubt they are even mining. |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5933
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 04:08:49 -
[15] - Quote
Even if you start warp when first detecting ships in warp around you, the bumper will still be able to line you up and bump you around. The Orca is a slow, fat whale of a ship which is getting its mass halved and agility reduced. So one MWD machariel will send you for a jolly ride that you have absolutely no control over.
You can fit an MWD to get into warp in 10 seconds, but at that point you can no longer fit command bursts.
The only option you really have is fitting to reduce maximum speed, stay aligned, and warp out as soon as you see anyone land on grid.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Niten Doraku
Abolish the Code
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 04:51:25 -
[16] - Quote
Chapo Muerte/loyalanon wrote:Code doesn't do that :p Your whole cult was founded on a carefully crafted lie. Let's turn our pages to James 3:14-16
Neglecting the before and after leaves much to interpretation. Shall we?
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Nothing about that is good. So how can you sit there in your altered reality and purport to know what your entire alliance is up to? Especially given the fact that you've been playing Eve Online for less than two months.
I infiltrated c0d3 and what I saw was inauspicious.
|

Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
845
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 05:01:05 -
[17] - Quote
Here is how you'll get bumping fixed: start bumping all the fatcats all over highsec. Doesn't matter what they're doing or where they're doing it, jump bump like crazy!
(that's how goons usually make a point: by exploiting it to death, putting it on the radar)
With a bit of luck, some guy would be willing to pay for you to stop- then you profit bothways. Go go forth, and bump MOAR! Bump it up until someone at CCP realises there might be an issue, otherwise it'll always be 'stupid impudent mining fools don't know how to avoid getting bumped'. Go go go! Bumpsquads awaaaaay! |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45144
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 05:15:42 -
[18] - Quote
Niten Doraku wrote:Chapo Muerte/loyalanon wrote:Code doesn't do that :p Your whole cult was founded on a carefully crafted lie. ... So how can you sit there in your altered reality and purport to know what your entire alliance is up to? Especially given the fact that you've been playing Eve Online for less than two months. Less than 2 months?
That's funny.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Corporate Capsuleer
Brand Newbros Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 05:37:13 -
[19] - Quote
Dagger Micstilson wrote:a single bumper will be able to knock boosting ships out of range of the barges they support in High sec. The connection between limited mining range boosting and bumping cannot be denied. I think you need to bump that orca with a planet to get him out of range. |

Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
570
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 05:51:26 -
[20] - Quote
Dagger Micstilson wrote:
This requires attention and if it does not receive any in the next week, it will be spread through the mining community.
We are doomed! DOOOOOMED!!! I say.
|

Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2817
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 06:25:46 -
[21] - Quote
Dagger Micstilson wrote:The cost being the mining bumping will now actually effect mining production, and be able to stop mining boosting all together in high sec, and this is unacceptable. Actually bumping boosting Orcas out of range will soon be a reality. Gankers/bumpers will now be able to cripple high sec mining ops at will with no more then a bumping ship.
This requires attention and if it does not receive any in the next week, it will be spread through the mining community.
This is a deliberate attack on miners, not just multiboxers, in a Trojan horse 'esc' in sheeps clothing to make it look like a great favor while completely screwing high sec mining, especially multiboxing.
This is an attack on high sec minors. "Oh no, there is a possibility that for a short fraction of my mining time I might not get the theoretical maximum boost! Won't someone think of muh ISK/h!"
Friend, of course it is a "deliberate attack" on miners. CCP has put you at (some very marginal) risk to the other players as befits a the competitive sandbox game they are developing. You are suppose to adjust your game play according to the actions of the other players, and sometimes, they are going to want to bump you. The Orca is a big ship with lots of things going for it, but does have downsides like it is slow and bump-able and you have to deal with that.
If you find yourself getting bumped, you can do plenty of things from getting yourself a permit to ganking the bumper. You can also just fly a Porpoise which should be able to be fit in a very bump-resistant way and still provide good boosts.
Personally though, I am looking forward to the "boost" in player interaction resulting from the proliferation of Orcas (and Rorquals outside of highsec) out in the belts come November.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
|

Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 06:51:05 -
[22] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:"Oh no, there is a possibility that for a short fraction of my mining time I might not get the theoretical maximum boost! Won't someone think of muh ISK/h!"
Friend, of course it is a "deliberate attack" on miners. CCP has put you at (some very marginal) risk to the other players as befits a the competitive sandbox game they are developing. You are suppose to adjust your game play according to the actions of the other players, and sometimes, they are going to want to bump you. The Orca is a big ship with lots of things going for it, but does have downsides like it is slow and bump-able and you have to deal with that.
If you find yourself getting bumped, you can do plenty of things from getting yourself a permit to ganking the bumper. You can also just fly a Porpoise which should be able to be fit in a very bump-resistant way and still provide good boosts.
Personally though, I am looking forward to the "boost" in player interaction resulting from the proliferation of Orcas (and Rorquals outside of highsec) out in the belts come November.
Maybe they can "boost" high sec some more and bring back the old system, so Hi-sec doesn't look like a lawless ghetto.
"You lose security status for any form of aggression towards another player that has a security rating above -5.0. Mathematics never was my strong point, but it's plain to see that without regular trips to a safe haven with a lot of pirate faction ships floating around to shoot at, you will find that it drops rapidly to the point where it impedes your travel through higher security solar systems and can eventually lead to you being locked out of systems that have a security level higher than 0.4. The basic system for status loss is:
-0.5% standing loss will occur on initial aggression of your target.
-2.0% standing loss will occur on the destruction of your target's ship.
-12.5% standing loss will occur on the destruction of your target's capsule.
The percentages for loss are shown here but this percentage is applied to the difference between your current security status and -10. For example, if you have a security status of 1.0 and aggress a target, you will take a penalty of 0.5%, which removes 0.045 points of security status.
A sharp drop in your security status can leave you locked out from high-security space, unable to access any assets that you have stored in your hangars in those locations.As well as you not being permitted to travel through systems with this security rating or higher, the local navy patrols will ensure this by means of a healthy dose of good old ECM and firepower to cut your ship from under you. They will, however, be merciful and allow you to leave, embarrassed and in shame, in the safe comfort of your little brown blinking egg.
SECURITY LOCKOUT
It's a good idea to know where the cut-off points are for access to solar systems with any given security status. A character will have to possess a security status equal to or greater than the following levels:
-1.99 for access to 1.0 security level systems -2.49 for access to 0.9 security level systems -2.99 for access to 0.8 security level systems -3.49 for access to 0.7 security level systems -3.99 for access to 0.6 security level systems -4.99 for access to 0.5 security level systems"
--EvE Online Player guide. Piracy section. |

Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
565
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 06:58:11 -
[23] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:*snip*
What are you talking about? This "old system" has been there forever. |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2905
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 07:00:37 -
[24] - Quote
There is an easy counter to bumping:
A mining permit for only 10mil ISK per miner and mining support ship.
Our Agents are standing by to receive your permit request OP.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 07:23:36 -
[25] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:*snip* What are you talking about? This "old system" has been there forever. Yeah -10s are so locked out that they can just keep killing in systems https://zkillboard.com/system/30002053/ |

Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2818
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 07:28:14 -
[26] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:SECURITY LOCKOUT
It's a good idea to know where the cut-off points are for access to solar systems with any given security status. A character will have to possess a security status equal to or greater than the following levels:
-1.99 for access to 1.0 security level systems -2.49 for access to 0.9 security level systems -2.99 for access to 0.8 security level systems -3.49 for access to 0.7 security level systems -3.99 for access to 0.6 security level systems -4.99 for access to 0.5 security level systems"
--EvE Online Player guide. Piracy section. I don't know where you are getting this text (and as far as I am aware it never reflected actual Eve gameplay at any point) but CCP has recently published a version of their player guide, the New Pilot FAQ, which spells out exactly what they expect players to do in highsec:
Section 5.2 wrote: WHO IS CONCORD AND WHAT ROLE DO THEY PERFORM? CONCORD can be considered to be the GÇÿspace policeGÇÖ who patrol the higher security areas of New Eden. They take action against those who attack others without justification and will hunt such miscreants down and destroy them without mercy. However, their role is not to prevent an attack but to punish an aggressor. Should you find yourself under fire from another pilot, CONCORD may not arrive in time to help you, so it will be down to your skill and the strength of your ship to prevail. CONCORD are also responsible for the security status of pilots, which is essentially a penalty/reward system and your status will increase or decrease depending on your actions. Actions that are for the good of all, such as destroying NPC pirates and undertaking certain missions will increase your status. Actions that are considered criminal acts, such as attacking another player or destroying their property without just cause will result in a decrease in status; not to mention a heavily armed CONCORD fleet turning up to show you the error of your ways. If your security status should become too low, this may make higher security systems difficult for a pilot to navigate through due to CONCORD presence.
You should probably read the whole thing. You are expected to defend yourself in highsec, not CONCORD. They are just there to punish offenders and impose retribution/cost on them, not lock people out of whole sectors of the game or protect you.
Sure you can pine for some mythical version of Eve where NPCs do all your dirty work for you and you are isolated from the rest of the game and can grind in peace, but that will just leave you impotently shaking your fist at the bumpers/gankers (and it seems CCP) when player interaction comes a-knockin'. I think you will find it more productive to take a proactive approach, and come up with ways to protect yourself from the tiny risks you are at in modern highsec, which is the safest it has ever been.
Trust me, CCP has given you plenty of tools. Go learn them.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
|

Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 07:36:53 -
[27] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:SECURITY LOCKOUT
It's a good idea to know where the cut-off points are for access to solar systems with any given security status. A character will have to possess a security status equal to or greater than the following levels:
-1.99 for access to 1.0 security level systems -2.49 for access to 0.9 security level systems -2.99 for access to 0.8 security level systems -3.49 for access to 0.7 security level systems -3.99 for access to 0.6 security level systems -4.99 for access to 0.5 security level systems"
--EvE Online Player guide. Piracy section. I don't know where you are getting this text (and as far as I am aware it never reflected actual Eve gameplay at any point) but CCP has recently published a version of their player guide, the New Pilot FAQ, which spells out exactly what they expect players to do in highsec: Section 5.2 wrote: WHO IS CONCORD AND WHAT ROLE DO THEY PERFORM? CONCORD can be considered to be the GÇÿspace policeGÇÖ who patrol the higher security areas of New Eden. They take action against those who attack others without justification and will hunt such miscreants down and destroy them without mercy. However, their role is not to prevent an attack but to punish an aggressor. Should you find yourself under fire from another pilot, CONCORD may not arrive in time to help you, so it will be down to your skill and the strength of your ship to prevail. CONCORD are also responsible for the security status of pilots, which is essentially a penalty/reward system and your status will increase or decrease depending on your actions. Actions that are for the good of all, such as destroying NPC pirates and undertaking certain missions will increase your status. Actions that are considered criminal acts, such as attacking another player or destroying their property without just cause will result in a decrease in status; not to mention a heavily armed CONCORD fleet turning up to show you the error of your ways. If your security status should become too low, this may make higher security systems difficult for a pilot to navigate through due to CONCORD presence.
You should probably read the whole thing. You are expected to defend yourself in highsec, not CONCORD. They are just there to punish offenders and impose retribution/cost on them, not lock people out of whole sectors of the game or protect you. Sure you can pine for some mythical version of Eve where NPCs do all your dirty work for you and you are isolated from the rest of the game and can grind in peace, but that will just leave you impotently shaking your fist at the bumpers/gankers (and it seems CCP) when player interaction comes a-knockin'. I think you will find it more productive to take a proactive approach, and come up with ways to protect yourself from the tiny risks you are at in modern highsec, which is the safest it has ever been. Trust me, CCP has given you plenty of tools. Go learn them. Where I got that was the original players guide. Not the lets cater to the pirates, because they cried so much version, that has left HI-sec so empty. Actions used to have consequences, ganks were harder.
They used to block pirates after a certain point and Hi-sec was actually Hi-sec. That is the difference between Hi-sec over time. Risk used to equal reward, not using cheap ships to kill what ever you please. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45145
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 07:39:45 -
[28] - Quote
The only thing that has ever happened for being an outlaw is as included in the text, the local navy shoots you in the face.
In that respect, you aren't allowed in the system, but it's never been a gates closed type of lockout, just a 'don't linger here' type of lockout.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 07:50:50 -
[29] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:The only thing that has ever happened for being an outlaw is as included in the text, the local navy shoots you in the face.
In that respect, you aren't allowed in the system, but it's never been a gates closed type of lockout, just a 'don't linger here' type of lockout. The gates also used to lock on you if you attacked someone near them. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45146
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 07:52:23 -
[30] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:The only thing that has ever happened for being an outlaw is as included in the text, the local navy shoots you in the face.
In that respect, you aren't allowed in the system, but it's never been a gates closed type of lockout, just a 'don't linger here' type of lockout. The gates also used to lock on you if you attacked someone near them. They still do. Always have.
In lowsec even as well.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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