Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Snake Doctor
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2007.03.23 23:06:00 -
[31]
Titans are perfect. They are godlike for a reason. If you've never been around one I suggest you find the facts before whining about it.
Eve isn't a game where you can fly the big bad all by yourself. It takes teamwork, coordination, and a LOT of power to fly one of those. Not to mention ISK....
Listen, as much as people would have you believe, titans are not invulnerable killing machines. Well deployed, they are by far the most advanced fleet weapon you can build, and with that comes a very, very big secret to keep.
I could go on and on. I know I wouldn't ever want to bother flying one.
They aren't gods. It's not like it's immune to SKILL AND TACTICS (or cheap shots, apparently...)
Your mom goes to college... |
Wylker
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii
|
Posted - 2007.03.23 23:32:00 -
[32]
I didn't read anything past the OP, but this thread is rediculous. This is like me saying "you know, I don't really know anything about nuclear submarines, but I think the navy should stop using them because they could end up causing the end of the world or bad nuclear fallout or something."
1) Go learn about the game mechanics behind Titans 2) Learn about how fleet combat in 0.0 works 3) Keep the fact that a properly equipped titan will cost around 100 billion isk 4) You have not given me anywhere near the smallest iota of an idea to rethink my answer.
-Wylker |
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 10:12:00 -
[33]
Titans are reasonably well balanced at the moment, with the possible exception of the remote DDD firing (it seems to me nobody really likes it..).
As some people say, a Titan has a huge effect on combat when it is in a system, and rightly so, given that its base cost is that of 600 battleships (not taking into account equipment, BPO cost, skills cost and training time)!
For the people complaining over this, you should also keep in mind that a Titan is limited in a lot of ways. The most important one I see as being: "If it is defending system A, it is not defending system B." Quite simply, if there is a titan defending the target you're attacking, go attack somewhere else. If it is an alliance with a Titan, it is likely to be a fairly big alliance. That means that there's plenty of other targets to go for. Split your fleet, with one part being near target A (if the titan leaves), and the second part attacking target B. If they have enough titan(s) to defend all their potential targets against you, the main problem is that YOU are not strong enough to attack them.
Other whines to be adressed are the ones that can basically be boiled down to: "Titans are too powerful because we don't have one!" They're usually phrased differently, but usually it's pretty easy to see if this is at the base of the complaing. To those people there's really not much to say except this: "Build your own titan(s)!" If an alliance has the will and dedication to build and field a titan (or more than one), it is only reasonable they should gain huge advantages from it given the cost and logistics involved. I.e. to overcome the advantages of a titan should require equal dedication from the ones trying to overcome it. Whether this dedication comes from building their own titan(s), or from sacrificing multiple 200 battleship fleets in attempting to destroy the enemys titan(s) doesn't matter.
General advice: Stop whining! |
Tulakh
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 10:47:00 -
[34]
Ok so far this topic concluded into the following:
- Remote DD launch is not really liked and may need some tweaking (for example 50% or less effective then a frontal assaut or completely remove it). - You do not know anything about the titans so have no right to speak about it (yes that is basicly what it comes down to even though you dont say it in these words). - Dont like it well then make them yourselve and do the same as everyone else does.
May i reming people did not like carriers that had the ability to sit inside pos shields (invulnerable) and just assign fighters to anyone without ever risking the carrier itself, the GM's obviously thought this was not good either so they changed it.
Also the suggestions about makeing the titan a sitting duck when it fires the doomsday device is not legit either but an inbetween solution like "fireing a doomsday device causes disruption in the warpfield which makes you unable to jump out for X minutes", however it should allow the titan to warp arround within the system.
I also read about removeing the ECM invulnerability, if this is done ever they should have like 50 warp core points or something really massive that takes alot of jamming to affect it at all so a lone frigate cannot just jam it and keep it from warping.
I must admit i am not part of an alliance and have no knowledge at all about logistics for a titan but that does not invalidate my concerns for the impact that it may have trough the whole universe on a long time period. If a group can hold a system / region indefinately because they can nuke anything in sight instantly it does become a concern especially if this means there is basicly no way to counteract (remember the titan still has its own support aswell).
Additionally currently a titan can cyno in a nuke and that is where the problem is, if the titan has to get more to the frontlines aswell just like the carrier has to and there actually show very good oppertunities to eliminate the titan even though it will take alot of effort then the situation is under control because like people say there is a risk and there is a reward now.
|
FreelancerAlpha
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 11:15:00 -
[35]
Isn't this just worrying for worrying's sake? The number of people who know anything about the Titan's capability is so very very small. Granted that nobody wants to run into one, I don't know of them changing the tide of a war so dramatically that they're anything more than a manifestation of your opponent's strength. If they have one and you don't, or you can't beat it, chances are, you weren't going to defeat that opponent anyway.
Hell, it screws with the setup, but if a BS can tank a DD, and the DD is the main way of dealing damage for a Titan, I don't think we need to look at nerfs just yet.
What I'd love to know, is how many DDs could be set off, and in what order, to ensure complete dread fleet annilation against an opponent who is expecting the DD.
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 11:20:00 -
[36]
Tanked dreads, assuming faction hardening and armor implants on a revelation (most common dread), that would come down to an amount of titans required that we are not going to see in one place at the same time for at least another year.
[center] Old blog |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 11:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 11:18:34 Tanked dreads, assuming faction hardening and armor implants on a revelation (most common dread), that would come down to an amount of titans required that we are not going to see in one place at the same time for at least another year, if ever at all.
If in one year and army of Titans is one-shotting dreads to death, then Titans are still broken. They are in fact more broken, because it means someone's been able to build them non-stop and no-one has actually been able to kill any of the Titans currently in service.
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 11:47:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 11:52:56
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 11:18:34 Tanked dreads, assuming faction hardening and armor implants on a revelation (most common dread), that would come down to an amount of titans required that we are not going to see in one place at the same time for at least another year, if ever at all.
If in one year and army of Titans is one-shotting dreads to death, then Titans are still broken. They are in fact more broken, because it means someone's been able to build them non-stop and no-one has actually been able to kill any of the Titans currently in service.
Correct.
Titans will be changed before that happens, IF it ever happens. [center] Old blog |
Cpt Angus
Sicarri Covenant
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 12:36:00 -
[39]
To prevent a force of multiple titans owning all of eve, how about this.
Limit the number of titans that can be used in combat.
How?
Perhaps some sort of mindlink/gang mod that a fleet commander can use to allow the presence of a titan in his fleet. Gang mods have the advantage in this situation by allowing the effect of only the most powerful mod in gang, hence, limiting the amount of titans that could be used.
Bones heal and chicks dig scars
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 12:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cpt Angus To prevent a force of multiple titans owning all of eve, how about this.
Limit the number of titans that can be used in combat.
How?
Perhaps some sort of mindlink/gang mod that a fleet commander can use to allow the presence of a titan in his fleet. Gang mods have the advantage in this situation by allowing the effect of only the most powerful mod in gang, hence, limiting the amount of titans that could be used.
I'd prefer Titans to be killable in some sort of conceivable scenario (if a logged Titan ever dies again I will be very surprised) rather then arbitrary limitations placed on their usage.
|
|
Evil Thug
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 12:55:00 -
[41]
Loads of newbs complaining how imbalanced titans are. Build -> Complain. Not vice versa
|
Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 12:57:00 -
[42]
2 Changes - Titans need to have no remote DD capability and titans need to be solid hunks of capital armor plating.
A deep-safed titan is far too difficult to find. IF your probes can probe it down (assuming its not cloaked...) IF you can warp your dread fleet too it...
It will - A. Warp to the deep safe spot that its already aligned to. Or B. Jump out.
Thanks to officer smartbombs a suicidal dictor pilot won't help much.
So what if, to be of much use, a titan had to jump strait into the action? It'd have to be a rock, considering that right now I think they have...40-50% more HP than a dread? That number wold have to be upped to 100-200% more so that you could actually keep it in combat with 89749347973 people shooting at it. I think that more or less would help.
At this second, due to remote DD and the pre-existing game mechanic of deep safespots, yes, I think they are overpowered. "EVE is the worst MMORPG. Except for all the other ones."
[KUDZU] = Coalition. |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 13:04:00 -
[43]
Again, unless you know who has them, how theyre being used, and what the current best counters being employed are, please stfu about titans and learn.
Titans are already used in direct combat. [center] Old blog |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 13:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Again, unless you know who has them, how theyre being used, and what the current best counters being employed are, please stfu about titans and learn.
Titans are already used in direct combat.
Right, and the main (only) reason they don't die doing it is because of the EWar immunity. Though that said there have been some impressive saves as well.
|
B1G DAVE
Mining and Research Industrial Organisation Hell Hounds
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 14:02:00 -
[45]
I think it would be reasonable that to use the DDD, the titan would have to enter a siege mode, just as dreads have to enter siege to do any damage worth doing to a tower.
But if this was the case, it then wouldn't be fair to remove the remote detonation capability aswell.
|
Tharsgaard
Caldari Delta Troop 4th Cavalry Space Forces
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 14:22:00 -
[46]
Just wondering, can ya launch cyno's in deadspace, if so, can the titan still remote launch the DDD into that deadspace cyno? ----------------------------------------- Delta Troop is recruiting, Join channel D4CAV.
|
Helmut 314
Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 15:53:00 -
[47]
I think Titans are designed wrong from the start. Their main use today is to be snuck in and used as an anti-blob weapon and then quickly leave, rather than be a part of any real combat. Secondary use is the jump bridge ability, to bring a fleet with you to another system.
IMO the doomsday device should be redone into a siege mode device that boosts the defences of the Titan, allowing it to participate in true fleet combat. Think of it as a massive shield multiplier/extender that increases shield HP making a Titan as strong as a POS when activated. The titan jumpbridges in with a support fleet, activates its shield and lets the rest of the pilots jumpclone into the shis its carrying while using its own guns and launchers to deal with the capital ships in the opposing fleet. Give titans a 500% gun damage bonus or the like, making them strong enough to take on dreadnaught/carrier fleets. To kill a Titan you would have to bring a substantial capital fleet of your own with support.
That would make Titans the tool to turn the tide in a fleet battle like originally was intended, not a tool thats afk 99% of the time...
________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Lucita Thoron
Minmatar ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 16:13:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Snake Doctor Titans are perfect. (...)
I TOTALY disagree. Its worst ship for me! Why? Simply because its killing A LOT of fun! And im looking only at FUN aspect here please remember.
Now everyone is trying to hit enemy with DDD and with one shot win battle :( Ok its no problem that they want to win, but we can have 20+ minutes epic fight with battleships, dreads, other capitals, smallers ships etc...
But if someones wants to win he choses titan ofcourse for that job but for fun id like to see xxx ships at field not just 1 nuclear bomb droped at everybody and then silence, wait x hours for next battle :(
"In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies."
|
Heisenburg Principle
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 16:31:00 -
[49]
Don't you mean 20+ minutes of epic lag?
Thats the problem with a titan, the entourage that tends to follow it and the immense lag it creates.
This all equals 4 frames per minute and no fun for anyone.
Where a titan goes lag is sure to follow.
|
Dasi
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 16:58:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Dasi on 24/03/2007 16:58:07 The only thing I dislike about Titans is the fact that it makes lots and lots of capitol ships the only way to effectively siege a POS with one (two? three?) in system. The last thing Eve needs is for another discouragement for new players.
"Siege a POS? Are you mad? Your support BS would get vaporised. Leave it to the Cap. pilots."
Of course maybe CCP thinks its good to force everyone into Capitol class ships? I am not sure.
Before the cap boost Titans were much more balanced. The remote cyno is lame. Adjust the remote Cyno so it doesn't do full strength and fix the cap the way it WAS and you would have a perfectly balenced ship.
|
|
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 17:02:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 24/03/2007 17:00:01 1) About the remote firing: yes it doesn't really make sense, but if you think that the DD would have any practical application if it didn't exist, you are sadly mistaken. The Titans are SLOOOOOOOOOOOW and unmanoeuvrable. People already manage to GTFO of the cyno ships bringing the DD, so however would the Titan manage to catch anyone?
Personnaly, I'd like the DD to be changed into a supergun that could pretty much wipe out a POS on its own (and anything between it and the Titan) but would have a RoF of like a shot a day or something.
2) About invulnerability to scrams: I think the Titans should come with and incredible amount of warp core strength (like Blockade Runners). It would still be possible to scram them, but you would need a massive amount of scramming ships to do this.
FLAMING
When you can't think of logical arguments and are too dumb to STFU |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 17:04:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 17:02:32 BS sieging a POS is silly anyway. You don't need a titan to vapourize your eneemy in that case.
Oh, and as to remote dd being needed, thats rubbish. Again, please stfu unless you've actually been involved in fights involving titans.
[center] Old blog |
Dasi
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 17:09:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 17:02:32 BS sieging a POS is silly anyway. You don't need a titan to vapourize your eneemy in that case.
Oh, and as to remote dd being needed, thats rubbish. Again, please stfu unless you've actually been involved in fights involving titans.
Hey BoB. Support BS'es are used in POS warfare. And the "PLZ STFU" is exactly the reason Eve wants you gone. This is a discussion forum not troll the hell out of anyone because they want to talk about a popular topic forum.
So what if I or anyone else doesn't have a clue? Let people roll around in their ignorance without screaming "STFU STFU Noooob" at everyone. Or hell continue to troll.
|
sakana
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 17:12:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Xendie one of the problems i think is the reaload of the DDD it should be atlest 4hours or something and half dmg if shot through cyno. another problem is that they can cyno in, shoot and cyno out with the cap they got. the DDD should take atleast 50-75% cap to fire.
agreed ------------
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 17:21:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dasi
Hey BoB. Support BS'es are used in POS warfare. And the "PLZ STFU" is exactly the reason Eve wants you gone. This is a discussion forum not troll the hell out of anyone because they want to talk about a popular topic forum.
So what if I or anyone else doesn't have a clue? Let people roll around in their ignorance without screaming "STFU STFU Noooob" at everyone. Or hell continue to troll.
`
If you want to talk about titans it helps when you know how they actually work. So far, every second post in this thread contains assumptions or assertions that are simply wrong.
BS fleets aren't used to siege pos's much. BS's are used to support dreads sieging pos's. That's two wholly different scenarios.
As for you wanting us gone, big deal, we're not going anywhere.
[center] Old blog |
Tulakh
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 17:49:00 -
[56]
Please i ask the bob member to not attack / flame people aswell as other people to stop bashing back because that is not what i want with the topic, it is to get an general idea about titans, get an idea about things that may be to overpowered and eventually even give some solutions to a possible fix to make them not look like "i win" buttons as that describes them at current. An to powerfull item, weapon, tool, etc can have a long term impact on any game specific when the people know how to deploy this power very fast in their advantage before it is changed. Specificly it can create feeling with people like "what if it had been right from the start and this did not happen what would <game> look like now". It is like the ability to take stuff gained in a beta phase of a game or from an exploit while everyone else has to start from scratch with nothing and could not gain trough the same methods, it is an unbalanced advantage and could eventually throw everything out of controll.
Anyway i have had a new idea for titans which may very well be alot more realistic. The idea comes somewhat from the C&C 3 demo sorry about stealing an idea from there but it looks it could work out for a titan aswell.
What it is about is that a titan needs power and alot of power to fire the weapon. If it is on the local battlefield it could fire the weapon with a charge from the capacitors depleting / minimiseing cap to a very low ammount. But if it wants to remote cyno launch the weapon it would need additional power, power that is behond its own generateing capacity. What this means is that you would need a titan + minimally 1 additional ship provideing additional power which slowly charges up (the more ships used the faster this charge goes).
This means that if someone wants to use DD remote cyno blasts they would need to create a cyno field, target the cyno and then start the chargeup to actually put the blast trough the cyno but depending on the support arround the titan this means it may need that much time that could either make the attack succeed or fail leaving the titan with a wasted shot, all out of juice for a short time. It also means that whatever the titan owners do they have to dedicate a few people to the titan in order to speed up the charge or bring the titan to the frontlines if they cant miss the people.
Atleast this doesn't sound horrible like a "sitting siege duck" / supernerfed titan because however you turn it makeing it completely vulnerable like that is also not good because it would also suck to get a 80 - 100 bil ship shot to peaces that way (because everyone there will target the titan for sure as thats the biggest loss).
About this point i agree, the titan stays no matter what because its intended role is to divert from the massive blobs and it does work in that particular role, it should just not be untouchable when it does.
|
Vardemis
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 18:26:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Helmut 314 [...] That would make Titans the tool to turn the tide in a fleet battle like originally was intended, not a tool thats afk 99% of the time...
Well, they do turn the tide in a fleet battle quite effectivly now.
|
Jollyreaper
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 19:18:00 -
[58]
In WWII, a full carrier air strike could be seen as an "i win" button. There was a lot of risk and uncertainty in getting your carriers into position to make that launch but if your planes made it to target, it would be taking serious damage. Even heavies like cruisers and battleships were vulnerable to air attack.
If EVE were to take that analogy to heart, then the biggest threat to a titan would be another titan. Perhaps the doomsday weapon would have an area effect mode (as it does now) and a beam weapon effect where it's doing all the damage to one target. So now the battle becomes a guessing game of whether your opponent has a titan to field, where it might be, and whether you might leave your titan vulnerable by moving it into battle and employing the DD.
Right now it sounds like titans are unmitigated pwnmobiles. Can't say for sure since I can't fly one but it sure sounds like they could do with some balancing. It seems rather unbalanced, for example, that a DD blast costs 20 mil when the isk value of the ships destroyed is so much higher.
Just from my POV, it would seem to make more sense for titans to be treated somewhat like a cross between a ballistic missile sub and a secret mobile base. Ballistic subs are strategic targets and you never want your enemy to know where they are, the threat of retalliation is supposed to prevent a larger war. And if the war does occur, then the sub ensures that your side will have vengence. Additionally, it sounds like a titan is like a mobile POS and so can support a fight far away from friendly bases. It sounds a lot like the floating bases the US Navy is working on, many times larger than aircraft carriers, that are giant multi-unit barges floated into place offshore from an area of operation, moored, and assembled into a general purpose base large enough to operate Air Force jets without catapults or arrestor gear. It would have hospitals, maintenence shops, barracks, etc, like carriers and amphibious landing ships buffed by a factor of 50.
What I'm getting at is that this isn't the sort of thing you risk directly in a fight, you keep it back from the fight and let the smaller ships do the dirty work. The DD is there to make sure that ship can defend itself but you wouldn't want to risk that much ISK in combat if you can avoid it.
|
Vily
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 19:45:00 -
[59]
Having been on BOTH sides of the coin, fighting against ET's titan in L5D and fighting with BOB's on a few occassion's I can say that there is not a whole lot wrong wtih them.
the REMOTE activation is a little out of what, i agree with that and i think most everyone does. it hardly gets used at all regardless, but the option should probably be removed regardless.
Titan's deployed on the field only have the sustainable tank of a dreadnaught, they have a HUGE buffer more though. So if you can break a dread tank you can break a titan tank, it just takes FOREVER and EVER. and because it takes so long, holding them there becomes the issue.
how do you hold a titan then becomes the question, because to break the tank is nothing incredible.
dictor bubble, NOS, bumps, and mobile deployables are the only thing that slwo them down.
sadly, titans can usually jump out after a DD if they have been in system a while. it takes more cap killing than any fleet can possbily hope to bear to nuet a titan down, so if a titan has been in system for a period to be 90+% cap, you theoretically should not be able to kill him.
bumping is legitimate, but only temporarily holds someone as they will sooner or later end up aligned.
mobile's dont cancel warp and take forever to deploy.
If you want titans to be fixed, FIX DICTOR BUBBLES. all it takes and all of a sudden they aren't as scary. make dictor bubbles cancel warp of anything within their sphere when launched. and of course prevent jumping away. ALL IF FRIGGIN TAKES.
currently... titan DD's, initiates warp, gets bubbled, warps away. should be.... titan DD's, initiates warp, gets bubbled, fighting ensues.
-
|
Doppleganger
Minmatar Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.03.24 20:19:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Vily
dictor bubble, NOS, bumps, and mobile deployables are the only thing that slwo them down.
sadly, titans can usually jump out after a DD if they have been in system a while. it takes more cap killing than any fleet can possbily hope to bear to nuet a titan down, so if a titan has been in system for a period to be 90+% cap, you theoretically should not be able to kill him.
I was hoping CCP was going to release capital nos and nuets to help with something like this but now thinking about it.... which would you rather fit to a titan? Guns that dont get any bonuses or cap nos along with the DD and smartbombs.
So i guess that would make the situation kinda moot of sicking custom fitted dreads and carriers that were setup only to drain the titans cap cause he would just drain them right back and still escape.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |