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Tulakh	Posted - 2007.03.23 10:55:00 - [1] Question: are titans to powerfull? Please read the full post before hitting reply or flameing this post down, it is a question i will explain troughout this post to possibly give you a reason to rethink your answer. The idea: 1 titan which can fit atleast 1 doomsday device and shoot it once a hour. I do not know alot about titans but if a titan fits 2 can it shoot them both? If the answer is no then this is ok. 1 titan can shoot a doomsday device once every 60 minutes. 2 titans can shoot a doomsday device once every 30 minutes. 4 titans can shoot a doomsday device once every 15 minutes. Ok i bet people get the idea, at some point if 1 mayor power can brind an specific ammount of titans to the battlefield it pretty much makes any battle impossible (small or large). So what does this mean? Simple, even the supercapitals will pop under a certain ammount of titan stress and there is no way to counter because any small ship is popped, battleships and command ships included. Bring in the dreads! How long does it take to eliminate 1 titan (if you can even catch it), i guess it can be done in 10 minutes or quicker but then again im not familier with titans all that much (atleast what it takes to kill them). Total invulnerability? With a specific damage output this could be very well possible which forces a breakup into smaller fleets (good its antiblob like the predictment). But then how do you simple prevent to get single shot wiped while you NEED to bring an X number of guns to the battlefield to even break a pos for example. Im not sure whats the fastest kill time on a pos but if it is above the time it takes to fire up with the titans it basicly means you allready lost the battle prior to the actual engagement (this then requires a secondary backup fleet with the same firepower to prevent single click instapop of the whole fleet). Ok so fireing a doomsday device needs an awefull lot of minerals thats good as it prevents this kind of massive power from being used to often against minor skirmishes but what about the big battles where now the titans are like a sword of the gods. So if even i can work this out are the superpowers allready executeing this plan? Very likely yes . Is this kind of power maybe just to much to be put in player hands? Is this power like the "jedi", the "Demonic Sword Zariche", and other "super weapons / super powers? Anyway my question now again to the people who said no before: do you still think titans are not to powerfull?
Motorcycle Emptiness Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:02:00 - [2] I think i once saw a screenie of a dread (it must have been the ASCN one) and it had what looked like a top row full of DDD's But i thought they fitted capital sized guns/launchers to take on dreads and such. Flashing White Box (rank 1)
Vactet Immortalis Silens	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:20:00 - [3] From what I have heard, it costs about 20 million ISK worth of stuff to pop of a doomsday. For large alliances... (Sorry BOB, going to use you as an example of large), thats nothing since they often have many hundreds of billions if not trillions (Cough). Put it this way... 1 BS rat that is worth 1Mill ISK. With a 10% corp tax, the corp gets 100K ISK. Figure the corp has...10 folks. Each pop a 1Mill ISK BS. Thats 1Mill to the corp. Now we alllll know the large alliances have multiple thousands of folks and they arent ALWAYS fighting. More like...fight...rat/mine for isk to fight tomorow. Etc. So...the isk of popping off a doomsday isnt a thing that will stop its use. The main issue is # of titan pilots...TRUSTWORTHY titan pilots. The alliance is going to let some random guy fly a titan that the alliance payed for. Luckily, and somewhat sadly, most chars are in the 04 and older range. Unless they purely went for a titan..yeh, doubtful they will get it. My character is a middle of 06 char, so 1 year old now. Just for giggles i checked, it would take roughly another 2/3 of a year to get fully trained for a titan (Clone Vat, DDD, Jump Bridge, booster (Jump Calib, etc) skills, etc). So its the lacking # of titan able pilots that are..err..trustworthy in the eyes of the alliance. Titans are not an I-Win button Tulakh, just an fyi. Theres 5 seconds between the start of the animation (The bright light) and your death. If you are in a quick warping ship then you can survive, or if you are aligned already. As far as a personal opinion, all these titans being used means more titans lost. Think of the current war as the cold war in reality. Big weapon buildup that was not used so much and then...the war. What..so far..2 or 3 titans have been lost? (ASCN's, one that was a d2/razor i beleive, thought i heard of a 3rd.). And catching a titan isnt hard. Yes they cant be scrammed, jammed, etc. But, get one suicidal dictor pilot and the problem is solved. Just what i have heard/read. Feel free to correct Sometimes the world needs to be kicked in the face to stop drooling on itself like an ignorant child. ::Im paid to talk, not to be civil. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Tulakh	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:55:00 - [4] The 3rd titan killed was actually a non finished in LV's shipyard. I know there is a startup delay but big fleet lag is often severe enough to prevent you actually takeing off at all. Also possible to remote detonate the titan so i just have to say what risk? Im sure that once ccp gets statistics about titan usage they could tweak things if they see something going completely the wrong way (eg invulnerability in every way except logoff / bumping, but even then if the titan pilot comes really prepared he can also strikeout another one of those issues and even better can remote detonate). The problem as i presented it however is by the next use of titans: Create a cyno field, remote detonate DD it is a no risk altough i dont know what it takes to "pop" the cyno field if that is possible i think it is anyway. Im more afraid of the situation where one can "call in a nuke at will" not on the balance of possibilities anymore (meaning for example a double / tripple / quadruple DD blast to wipe anything off the map). This would only be breaking the possibility that the person on the other side had before in the fight of long pos warfare. However what i fear most is a situation that happens in other mmorpg's, 1 obvious have it all weapon which if your clan erm sorry corporation owns enough off means you become practicly invincible (although in the compared games it takes less effort to use it as that weapon doesn't use fuel so that was certainly a good move on ccp their end). The problem however was the impact it had even afterwards the superweapon had been nerfed double time. One clan owned all castle sieges and just monopolised on everything makeing them even more powerfull which ended in rare and overenchanted (read full officer fit) weapons / armor. I would hate to see it go that way that it basicly means those who are with us can relax but those against us / not with us we can strike you down at will without breaking a sweat. I just do not like powertoys / superweapons, it is nice to be able to work for it but once there it can horribly offset balance (1 does not make alot of difference but wait till there are 10 or 100). It is no longer a matter of tactics + strategy but the game turns to who has one / multiple superweapon(s) at his fingertips and can press 1 single button which is exactly the thing ccp said not wanting to go towards (the capital is not a solo mission pwnmobile, the battleship is not a solo pwnmobile, etc etc), yes there is the titan. I know this issue comes really late but even i did not realise at first how powerfull a single click superweapon is till i gave it some real thought. If we want to fight blobs the good way is makeing smaller targets for smaller groups (like the pos can be hurt in multiple ways, not just big guns and shoot it down but alos guerilla warfare). The bad way to go is to nerf supersize fleets (more then 10 ships will stacking nerf, i do not think ccp will do this even though i saw something like this proposed once). And then there is the ugle way which is called titans . *pun intended with the good, the bad and the ugly Anyway here is an followup argument although a bit long.
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Motorcycle Emptiness I think i once saw a screenie of a dread (it must have been the ASCN one) and it had what looked like a top row full of DDD's But i thought they fitted capital sized guns/launchers to take on dreads and such. Get your facts right, a dreadnaught with all doomsday devices?!!
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:10:00 - [6] titans can only fit a single doomsday device and they swallow a load of cpu/grid... and the amount of fuel needed is insane. but with rigs now on titans i would imagine that yes a titan is near invulnerable... only way to get at them is the way bob have which works... but isnt popular to say the least.. but a kill is a kill i guess
Xendie Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:10:00 - [7] one of the problems i think is the reaload of the DDD it should be atlest 4hours or something and half dmg if shot through cyno. another problem is that they can cyno in, shoot and cyno out with the cap they got. the DDD should take atleast 50-75% cap to fire. Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
Na'Thuul Caldari Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:20:00 - [8] Make the DDD take all power in the ship. Anyone seen Crusade? When they fired the main guns, the ship was basically dead in the water for one minute while building up power. Titans should be the same. Fire DDD, Titan is dead in the water for a set period of time and must be defended by the support fleet. I think it should be longer than 1 minute though :p more like 10. That would make Titans a LOT more challenging to use, and you would have te opportunity to launch a counterattack on it after DDD is fired --- [08:41:12] Nebulai > unless your offering me cheap pills, I don't see it
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:24:00 - [9] The real problem with titans is twofold - Remote detonation - Immune to scrambling. Remove these two and the ship is no longer a problem. Of course people will have to adapt, I bet in a years time we won't see many BS fleets anymore, we will be seeing dreadfleets. And a DD barely scratches a Dread. So if you want to be a major player in 0.0 warfare 6 months to a year from now, get those dreadskills trained and start building the ships. And you need a titan of your own of course. -------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:25:00 - [10] Titans? what are those? good thing most people will never see one except on pics i guess. Bah, titans and outpost are a prime example that 0.0 is the easy living area not hi sec puts on fire resistant suit in preperation for the flames Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p

Motorcycle Emptiness Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: Motorcycle Emptiness I think i once saw a screenie of a dread (it must have been the ASCN one) and it had what looked like a top row full of DDD's But i thought they fitted capital sized guns/launchers to take on dreads and such. Get your facts right, a dreadnaught with all doomsday devices?!! I meant titan! but titans bring the word 'dread' to mind Flashing White Box (rank 1)
Malakhan Gallente Phoenix Wing Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:38:00 - [12] I think Chribba should be allowed a Veldtan in Amarr --- We are recruiting!
Darcy Killar Gallente Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.23 12:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Na'Thuul Make the DDD take all power in the ship. Anyone seen Crusade? When they fired the main guns, the ship was basically dead in the water for one minute while building up power. Titans should be the same. Fire DDD, Titan is dead in the water for a set period of time and must be defended by the support fleet. I think it should be longer than 1 minute though :p more like 10. That would make Titans a LOT more challenging to use, and you would have te opportunity to launch a counterattack on it after DDD is fired I like this one. I think everything should remain the same. It canÆt be scrammed it can remote launch BUT when it fires it CANNOT in ANY way regain cap for a solid 15 min -20 min. This prevents 5 logistics ships pumping it full of cap, and it prevents it from going anywhere thus giving ample time for retaliation and meaning it would require a large defensive fleet any time it planed on firing. (yeah I know we want less blob but the Titan is both an Anti and pro blob weapon, it kills blobs but requires a blob to kill it) About me! My kills!
AshFish Rapid Attack Samurai Sloth's	Posted - 2007.03.23 13:34:00 - [14] Ok have been thinking about titans roles DDD's and such like since they were announced and I still like the concept but not too sure about the application. The problem atm seems to be that you can't catch a titan, the DDD is tankable, the titan is killable, but if the alliance is any good you won't see the ship for long enough to hurt it (excluding metagaming). Now I like the concept of it not being able to move if it decides to activate its DDD, but I am not sure that putting the penaulty at the end is the best way of doing this. My thought is that the DDD has a calibration time once activated, of around 5 mins (arbitrary time for the example, actual time and balance would need looking into), once activated then the titan would not be able to move from its position without deactivating the DDD and incuring the 60min cooldown timer as if it had been used. If cynoing the DDD the the cyno would need to be up for the entire calibration period otherwise the DDD would active on the same grid as the titan. This would promote the use of titans in a far more offensive manor and give the deffending force chance to either get out of dodge, or kill the titan (and its support fleet/POS if cynoing etc.) Logistics support would be available to the titan however (remote repairers/cap etc.), this seems only right considering if the titan wants to use a DDD it has to be in situe for a fixed timeframe. This also means that the support fleet would have to be careful as to being able to disengage otherwise friendly DDD would occur. Anyways just a few thought which would imho improve the situation without a dramatic rethink to the mechanics.
Standard Deviation	Posted - 2007.03.23 13:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Vactet And catching a titan isnt hard. Yes they cant be scrammed, jammed, etc. But, get one suicidal dictor pilot and the problem is solved. Just what i have heard/read. Feel free to correct You have no idea what you are talking about so you should just shut up. Dictor pilot, yeah that works /watches officer smartbomb blow up bubbles. Also have you seen how people use the titan. Warp in 150k - 200k from fleet blow load, warp out. Good luck to the dictor pilot. He has what a few seconds to warp in from off grid and drop a bubble. Why write such a long winded post when you have no freaking clue what the hell you are talking about. The best solutions are solutions that pretty much everyone agrees on. no remote firing. DD uses sometihng like 75-85% of its cap so it can move right away. Something has to be done to add risk to the firing of the DD. If not it is just a stupid game mechanic. I havent actually timed it, but i think a few people have. The actual time from warp in, DD, to warp out of titan. It happens very quickly. And with lag in major fleet battles, it happens in literally the blink of an eye.
Orange Speceis Destructive Infleunce	Posted - 2007.03.23 17:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Vactet With a 10% corp tax, the corp gets 100K ISK. Figure the corp has...10 folks. Each pop a 1Mill ISK BS. Thats 1Mill to the corp. Well its about the same as the profit gained from selling 1 sabre.
Jarjar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.23 18:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Orange Speceis Originally by: Vactet With a 10% corp tax, the corp gets 100K ISK. Figure the corp has...10 folks. Each pop a 1Mill ISK BS. Thats 1Mill to the corp. Well its about the same as the profit gained from selling 1 sabre. Why isn't this troll banned yet? Hint for the mods: Look closely at the char/corp name "In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio
Lemen Meringue Cult of Lemen	Posted - 2007.03.23 18:09:00 - [18] Edited by: Lemen Meringue on 23/03/2007 18:06:08 Originally by: Standard Deviation DD uses sometihng like 75-85% of its cap so it can move right away. Well, with rigs now even from 0 cap it takes no time at all to get back to full. Supercapitals could be balanced a variety of ways, but its doubtful that CCP will change much for a long, long time. imo: 1) no capital can use a cloak. you have it in system be prepared to defend it 2) warp bubbles stop jumpdrives 3) allow webs to work on supercaps 4) no capital bonuses/abilities work from a pos shield - they can sit there safe, but can't do anything or provide bonuses, or become vulnerable and can make use of all their abilities.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.23 18:18:00 - [19] Actually, killing a titan would take only a few minutes with a sizeable fleet. That's the window of opportunity you need to create. And yes, that's entirely possible. The main problem is keeping it from jumping out. You can prevent it from warping by using dictors. (place bubble outside smarty range). You can prevent it from jumping by a number of ways, or a combination of those. The main things stopping that from happening are the lack of titans to kill, and the remote DD ability. As for periods of immobility, that'd be silly tbh. Titans are actually quite vulnerable once immobilised. I've been involved in killing two, and both died extremely fast once immobilised. One tanked a bit, one didn't, both died in no time. Forcing a titan to wait minutes before a DD blast makes the DD useless. Forcing one to wait minutes after it will result in a dead titan eight out of ten times you use it against an even barely competent enemy. So, in conclusion, no, the main reason they don't die in higher numbers are the facts that they arent around in those numbers and the fact that those that are around hardly get used at all, let alone in direct contact with an enemy fleet (exceptions noted). [center] Old blog
Na'Thuul Caldari Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.23 18:20:00 - [20] No, it only means you have to use a proper support fleet to defend it while immobilized --- [08:41:12] Nebulai > unless your offering me cheap pills, I don't see it

Mack Deluxe PsyCorp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.23 18:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Rod Blaine I've been involved in killing two, and both died extremely fast once immobilised. One tanked a bit, one didn't, both died in no time. You mean a ship, without a pilot and therefore no tank, died quickly? Gasp! Shock! I've done... Questionable things.
Tulakh	Posted - 2007.03.23 19:13:00 - [22] People please keep off the flameing bob even though many may not agree with what or how they accomplished things known to the public the post is not aimed specificly at them as it doesn't matter which mayor power manages to do it anyone could. Nonetheless a reply on Rod Blaine his post. The problem is not only keeping the single titan in place but also the stacking effects of multiple titans, ok this may not be reality now but it will be someday. The issue is with the possibility to cyno doomsday, this way a fleet can stay hidden with a group of cap recharge providing ships to charge up the titan again once it is done and it is on its way again never actually lookeing the enemy's straight in the face. Well lets say the single titan comes to the battlefield a bit of isk spend on a proper fit for the titan would render alot of actions useless pre doomsday usage (instapop anything if it gets wet feet). After the doomsday is launched im not sure how quick you have to be but i guess the titan pilot can allready cyno out pretty quickly gathered from comments. This then makes the ability to actually counteract it near impossible which does feel like a invincable superweapon somehow. It is not really the way they are on their own it is the way they are when they are starting to form a fleet themselves (10 titans pretty much means if done properly you could wipe anything thrown at you almost at anytime). To counteract that you need a large fleet, but that large fleet gets wiped away pretty fast so you need a 2nd fleet but that one is wiped away aswell, 3rd, 4rd, 5th ... 10th? And it then starts all over again because either the time it took to actually pull this off has taken over 1 hour or the titans just shape up a ball of doomsday firework at every X minutes. Remember it takes constant beating to defeat it, however no chance to keep it going constantly unless you have a massive fleet with multiple warp-ins (all capital sized as anything lower may not even hold alot of blasts, remember multiple capitals so the damage done can be any type so cant tank them all). I admit it is the true doomsday scenario shapeing but it is likely to happen (pun intended ), more likely then vivox being the end of eve anyway. It only takes 1 group with what 800 billion? (includeing the fitting im not exacty sure on 1 titans price though). Well i take then 1 mayor power for example bob since this topic has mentioned them now and is stained forever anyway . They own the left bottom of the map which is known to hold 6/10 blood raider complexes for example (almost all except 2 as far as i could see), it also has some other complexes but these are the more easy ones to calculate. Bob been ingame fow how long? im not sure of that. Anyway each 6 hours it gives the last level overseer which means probably 3 times a day the overseer is there (4x maybe if lucky). Lets guess that only once our of 10 it drops good stuff (the corpum energised adaptive nano membrame), market price 200 mil and higher and corpum medium armor repairer also comes from this? another 200 mil. So once every 10 runs (2-4 days) it gives 400 mil per complex, now how many are there? This means that in about a month time it yields 4 billion per complex (this figure excludes other complexes and rewards and even has probably a very low estimate). From here on its easy to do the calculation because if it is 10 complexes that is 40 billion a month or half a titan. Yes i know my estimates are the really simplified, loot has to be sold and can be lost duo to pirateing and pilot error aswell as someone beating you to the complex and even dishonest people in the gang keeping it all for themselves. Another aspect is affcourse that not all goes to corp / alliance probably but still it does add up to an figure. So there you have a layout that with the will and power something like this could eventually happen (isk / build speed and character training being the only limiting factors).
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.23 19:29:00 - [23] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 23/03/2007 19:27:44 Multiple titans would sure be extremely hard to deal with for any non-capital fleet. I'm equally sure CCP will adapt mechanics where needed if that scenario becomes reality. The number one nerf that I'd guess to be likely is removal of the remote DD abilty. Once titans need to be in place to DD, there's comprehensive risk involved. Up to the point where there are enough in a single system to be able to DD often enough to close down the interval to less then the time practically needed to kill a titan. I'd start worrying when we ourselves see reason to criticise the power of titans, as we have by far the most extensive experience in using them and dealing with them proactively. Once we see no more room for dealing with them, it becomes a problem. In the mean time, any enemy is very welcome to deploy their titans against us as they are now and put our ability to adapt ourselves to the test. [center] Old blog
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.23 19:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Na'Thuul Make the DDD take all power in the ship. Anyone seen Crusade? When they fired the main guns, the ship was basically dead in the water for one minute while building up power. Titans should be the same. Fire DDD, Titan is dead in the water for a set period of time and must be defended by the support fleet. I think it should be longer than 1 minute though :p more like 10. That would make Titans a LOT more challenging to use, and you would have te opportunity to launch a counterattack on it after DDD is fired I like that Idea :D DDD should empty a Titans Cap for about 10 Minutes, so he can't do anything. That's the moment a Titan is beatable.
Standard Deviation	Posted - 2007.03.23 20:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Rod Blaine Actually, killing a titan would take only a few minutes with a sizeable fleet. That's the window of opportunity you need to create. And yes, that's entirely possible. The main problem is keeping it from jumping out. You can prevent it from warping by using dictors. (place bubble outside smarty range). You can prevent it from jumping by a number of ways, or a combination of those. The main things stopping that from happening are the lack of titans to kill, and the remote DD ability. As for periods of immobility, that'd be silly tbh. Titans are actually quite vulnerable once immobilised. I've been involved in killing two, and both died extremely fast once immobilised. One tanked a bit, one didn't, both died in no time. Forcing a titan to wait minutes before a DD blast makes the DD useless. Forcing one to wait minutes after it will result in a dead titan eight out of ten times you use it against an even barely competent enemy. So, in conclusion, no, the main reason they don't die in higher numbers are the facts that they arent around in those numbers and the fact that those that are around hardly get used at all, let alone in direct contact with an enemy fleet (exceptions noted). I think they should scale the DD cap usuage up since they increased the cap on all ships, but left the usage alone. You guys killed 2 titans while the pilots werent logged in. A bit different when the guy is actually playing...this isnt smack. Its just that killing a ship of a logged pilot and the ship of someone logged in is very different. I think forcing a timer after DD goes off is very reasonable, given the amount damage it can do. If someone wants to use that should risk it. The remote dd is just stupid. Placing the dictor bubbles outside officer smart bomb range is easier said then done, given the range of the smartbomgs, how often it can be set off/ vs how often a bubble can be launched. And bumping doesnt work very well on supercapitals. Its a crap shoot not a strategy. Its just as likely you bump the guy into alignment as you bumping him out. Seen it a bunch with The establishment MOM. The combination of smartbomb, cyno out, ewar immune, makes them stupidly hard to kill, and given the amount of damage they can dish out is a very unblanced risk vs. reward scenario IMO. Eve will be no fun if titans stay the way they are, and that is a fact. Its even loosing its appreciation among the people tha thave them and use them. And orange...the little sabre joke just makes you a tool.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.23 20:28:00 - [26] Actually the D2 guy logged in dutring the killage, so yes, we know. We also own two titans, you'd not imagine we test how much it'd take to kill them ? titans at this point are fine in my book, altho the cap use issue is a valid point and it could do with a reduction to cynoing out right after dd use is no longer possible. Immobilising them for ten miutes is nuts tho. It's not balance, it's certain death. [center] Old blog
Standard Deviation	Posted - 2007.03.23 20:52:00 - [27] Edited by: Standard Deviation on 23/03/2007 20:50:39 Originally by: Rod Blaine Actually the D2 guy logged in dutring the killage, so yes, we know. We also own two titans, you'd not imagine we test how much it'd take to kill them ? titans at this point are fine in my book, altho the cap use issue is a valid point and it could do with a reduction to cynoing out right after dd use is no longer possible. Immobilising them for ten miutes is nuts tho. It's not balance, it's certain death. 10 seems harsh. Something like 100% cap drain, not cap regen for 2 minutes, then go from there. oh...my other thought. DD and cloak mutally exclusively. Like cloak and cyno. Edit: Teamwork, use your team to help rapidly build back up the titan, Titan should not be a solo ship anyway. It should require a team to use and defend. And a team to take it out. Seing as you havent disagreed, I can assume you are at least on board for removing remote DD.
Trem Sinval Sinval Enterprises	Posted - 2007.03.23 22:25:00 - [28] Are Titans too powerful? Let's take an example, Erebus, with Aurora Ominae. The cargohold will carry enough isotopes for 5.7 firings (so, 5) The capacitor will carry enough charge for 5.4 firings (so, 5) The CPU can carry 6 or 7 DDD's. So, our well-fitted Erebus pilot can supposedly bring the pain five times over. Sounds bad, eh? In the end, if he expends all five firings, he won't have the capacitor to jump out (hell, he won't have it to warp around the system). He won't achieve 95% capacity for 76 minutes. Even if an enemy fleet couldn't catch him in that GENEROUS window, he wouldn't have enough isotopes in the hold to make a jump himself, let alone trying to jump bridge. In that timeframe, our intrepid Erebus pilot can, at maximum, deliver 351,562.5 unresisted damage, or with 80% resist, just 70.312.5 real damage. That's piddly damage to any meaningful cap fleet. In the meantime, he's saddled with a 160 billion ISK albatross around his neck, unable to move or warp or jump, with no defense, no tank, and likely no support fleet (unless the enemy fleet was really kind enough to sit on top of the remote cyno for the minute and a half required to light five DDD charges off). Whew, sounds like that's terribly overpowered from here. And it's not like the enemy fleet ever has a chance to warp off and wait around for the fat, helpless Titan to, ahem, "blow its load" and then pounce with dreads. No sir, sounds like a win-EVE type situation. - Trem - Trem
Marcus Aurelius Colossus Security Services	Posted - 2007.03.23 22:41:00 - [29] if you dont know **** about titans, then dont talk about them. They cant fit more then one DD device
Standard Deviation	Posted - 2007.03.23 22:50:00 - [30] Originally by: Trem Sinval Are Titans too powerful? Let's take an example, Erebus, with Aurora Ominae. The cargohold will carry enough isotopes for 5.7 firings (so, 5) The capacitor will carry enough charge for 5.4 firings (so, 5) The CPU can carry 6 or 7 DDD's. So, our well-fitted Erebus pilot can supposedly bring the pain five times over. Sounds bad, eh? In the end, if he expends all five firings, he won't have the capacitor to jump out (hell, he won't have it to warp around the system). He won't achieve 95% capacity for 76 minutes. Even if an enemy fleet couldn't catch him in that GENEROUS window, he wouldn't have enough isotopes in the hold to make a jump himself, let alone trying to jump bridge. In that timeframe, our intrepid Erebus pilot can, at maximum, deliver 351,562.5 unresisted damage, or with 80% resist, just 70.312.5 real damage. That's piddly damage to any meaningful cap fleet. In the meantime, he's saddled with a 160 billion ISK albatross around his neck, unable to move or warp or jump, with no defense, no tank, and likely no support fleet (unless the enemy fleet was really kind enough to sit on top of the remote cyno for the minute and a half required to light five DDD charges off). Whew, sounds like that's terribly overpowered from here. And it's not like the enemy fleet ever has a chance to warp off and wait around for the fat, helpless Titan to, ahem, "blow its load" and then pounce with dreads. No sir, sounds like a win-EVE type situation. - Trem what the hell are you talking about?

Snake Doctor Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.03.23 23:06:00 - [31] Titans are perfect. They are godlike for a reason. If you've never been around one I suggest you find the facts before whining about it. Eve isn't a game where you can fly the big bad all by yourself. It takes teamwork, coordination, and a LOT of power to fly one of those. Not to mention ISK.... Listen, as much as people would have you believe, titans are not invulnerable killing machines. Well deployed, they are by far the most advanced fleet weapon you can build, and with that comes a very, very big secret to keep. I could go on and on. I know I wouldn't ever want to bother flying one. They aren't gods. It's not like it's immune to SKILL AND TACTICS (or cheap shots, apparently...) Your mom goes to college...
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.03.23 23:32:00 - [32] I didn't read anything past the OP, but this thread is rediculous. This is like me saying "you know, I don't really know anything about nuclear submarines, but I think the navy should stop using them because they could end up causing the end of the world or bad nuclear fallout or something." 1) Go learn about the game mechanics behind Titans 2) Learn about how fleet combat in 0.0 works 3) Keep the fact that a properly equipped titan will cost around 100 billion isk 4) You have not given me anywhere near the smallest iota of an idea to rethink my answer. -Wylker
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:12:00 - [33] Titans are reasonably well balanced at the moment, with the possible exception of the remote DDD firing (it seems to me nobody really likes it..). As some people say, a Titan has a huge effect on combat when it is in a system, and rightly so, given that its base cost is that of 600 battleships (not taking into account equipment, BPO cost, skills cost and training time)! For the people complaining over this, you should also keep in mind that a Titan is limited in a lot of ways. The most important one I see as being: "If it is defending system A, it is not defending system B." Quite simply, if there is a titan defending the target you're attacking, go attack somewhere else. If it is an alliance with a Titan, it is likely to be a fairly big alliance. That means that there's plenty of other targets to go for. Split your fleet, with one part being near target A (if the titan leaves), and the second part attacking target B. If they have enough titan(s) to defend all their potential targets against you, the main problem is that YOU are not strong enough to attack them. Other whines to be adressed are the ones that can basically be boiled down to: "Titans are too powerful because we don't have one!" They're usually phrased differently, but usually it's pretty easy to see if this is at the base of the complaing. To those people there's really not much to say except this: "Build your own titan(s)!" If an alliance has the will and dedication to build and field a titan (or more than one), it is only reasonable they should gain huge advantages from it given the cost and logistics involved. I.e. to overcome the advantages of a titan should require equal dedication from the ones trying to overcome it. Whether this dedication comes from building their own titan(s), or from sacrificing multiple 200 battleship fleets in attempting to destroy the enemys titan(s) doesn't matter. General advice: Stop whining!
Tulakh	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:47:00 - [34] Ok so far this topic concluded into the following: - Remote DD launch is not really liked and may need some tweaking (for example 50% or less effective then a frontal assaut or completely remove it). - You do not know anything about the titans so have no right to speak about it (yes that is basicly what it comes down to even though you dont say it in these words). - Dont like it well then make them yourselve and do the same as everyone else does. May i reming people did not like carriers that had the ability to sit inside pos shields (invulnerable) and just assign fighters to anyone without ever risking the carrier itself, the GM's obviously thought this was not good either so they changed it. Also the suggestions about makeing the titan a sitting duck when it fires the doomsday device is not legit either but an inbetween solution like "fireing a doomsday device causes disruption in the warpfield which makes you unable to jump out for X minutes", however it should allow the titan to warp arround within the system. I also read about removeing the ECM invulnerability, if this is done ever they should have like 50 warp core points or something really massive that takes alot of jamming to affect it at all so a lone frigate cannot just jam it and keep it from warping. I must admit i am not part of an alliance and have no knowledge at all about logistics for a titan but that does not invalidate my concerns for the impact that it may have trough the whole universe on a long time period. If a group can hold a system / region indefinately because they can nuke anything in sight instantly it does become a concern especially if this means there is basicly no way to counteract (remember the titan still has its own support aswell). Additionally currently a titan can cyno in a nuke and that is where the problem is, if the titan has to get more to the frontlines aswell just like the carrier has to and there actually show very good oppertunities to eliminate the titan even though it will take alot of effort then the situation is under control because like people say there is a risk and there is a reward now.
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:15:00 - [35] Isn't this just worrying for worrying's sake? The number of people who know anything about the Titan's capability is so very very small. Granted that nobody wants to run into one, I don't know of them changing the tide of a war so dramatically that they're anything more than a manifestation of your opponent's strength. If they have one and you don't, or you can't beat it, chances are, you weren't going to defeat that opponent anyway. Hell, it screws with the setup, but if a BS can tank a DD, and the DD is the main way of dealing damage for a Titan, I don't think we need to look at nerfs just yet. What I'd love to know, is how many DDs could be set off, and in what order, to ensure complete dread fleet annilation against an opponent who is expecting the DD.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:20:00 - [36] Tanked dreads, assuming faction hardening and armor implants on a revelation (most common dread), that would come down to an amount of titans required that we are not going to see in one place at the same time for at least another year. [center] Old blog
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 11:18:34 Tanked dreads, assuming faction hardening and armor implants on a revelation (most common dread), that would come down to an amount of titans required that we are not going to see in one place at the same time for at least another year, if ever at all. If in one year and army of Titans is one-shotting dreads to death, then Titans are still broken. They are in fact more broken, because it means someone's been able to build them non-stop and no-one has actually been able to kill any of the Titans currently in service.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:47:00 - [38] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 11:52:56 Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 11:18:34 Tanked dreads, assuming faction hardening and armor implants on a revelation (most common dread), that would come down to an amount of titans required that we are not going to see in one place at the same time for at least another year, if ever at all. If in one year and army of Titans is one-shotting dreads to death, then Titans are still broken. They are in fact more broken, because it means someone's been able to build them non-stop and no-one has actually been able to kill any of the Titans currently in service. Correct. Titans will be changed before that happens, IF it ever happens. [center] Old blog
Cpt Angus Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:36:00 - [39] To prevent a force of multiple titans owning all of eve, how about this. Limit the number of titans that can be used in combat. How? Perhaps some sort of mindlink/gang mod that a fleet commander can use to allow the presence of a titan in his fleet. Gang mods have the advantage in this situation by allowing the effect of only the most powerful mod in gang, hence, limiting the amount of titans that could be used. Bones heal and chicks dig scars
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Cpt Angus To prevent a force of multiple titans owning all of eve, how about this. Limit the number of titans that can be used in combat. How? Perhaps some sort of mindlink/gang mod that a fleet commander can use to allow the presence of a titan in his fleet. Gang mods have the advantage in this situation by allowing the effect of only the most powerful mod in gang, hence, limiting the amount of titans that could be used. I'd prefer Titans to be killable in some sort of conceivable scenario (if a logged Titan ever dies again I will be very surprised) rather then arbitrary limitations placed on their usage.

Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:55:00 - [41] Loads of newbs complaining how imbalanced titans are. Build -> Complain. Not vice versa
Red Crown Kudzu Collective	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:57:00 - [42] 2 Changes - Titans need to have no remote DD capability and titans need to be solid hunks of capital armor plating. A deep-safed titan is far too difficult to find. IF your probes can probe it down (assuming its not cloaked...) IF you can warp your dread fleet too it... It will - A. Warp to the deep safe spot that its already aligned to. Or B. Jump out. Thanks to officer smartbombs a suicidal dictor pilot won't help much. So what if, to be of much use, a titan had to jump strait into the action? It'd have to be a rock, considering that right now I think they have...40-50% more HP than a dread? That number wold have to be upped to 100-200% more so that you could actually keep it in combat with 89749347973 people shooting at it. I think that more or less would help. At this second, due to remote DD and the pre-existing game mechanic of deep safespots, yes, I think they are overpowered. "EVE is the worst MMORPG. Except for all the other ones." [KUDZU] = Coalition.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:04:00 - [43] Again, unless you know who has them, how theyre being used, and what the current best counters being employed are, please stfu about titans and learn. Titans are already used in direct combat. [center] Old blog
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Rod Blaine Again, unless you know who has them, how theyre being used, and what the current best counters being employed are, please stfu about titans and learn. Titans are already used in direct combat. Right, and the main (only) reason they don't die doing it is because of the EWar immunity. Though that said there have been some impressive saves as well.
B1G DAVE Mining and Research Industrial Organisation Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.03.24 14:02:00 - [45] I think it would be reasonable that to use the DDD, the titan would have to enter a siege mode, just as dreads have to enter siege to do any damage worth doing to a tower. But if this was the case, it then wouldn't be fair to remove the remote detonation capability aswell.
Tharsgaard Caldari Delta Troop 4th Cavalry Space Forces	Posted - 2007.03.24 14:22:00 - [46] Just wondering, can ya launch cyno's in deadspace, if so, can the titan still remote launch the DDD into that deadspace cyno? ----------------------------------------- Delta Troop is recruiting, Join channel D4CAV.
Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.24 15:53:00 - [47] I think Titans are designed wrong from the start. Their main use today is to be snuck in and used as an anti-blob weapon and then quickly leave, rather than be a part of any real combat. Secondary use is the jump bridge ability, to bring a fleet with you to another system. IMO the doomsday device should be redone into a siege mode device that boosts the defences of the Titan, allowing it to participate in true fleet combat. Think of it as a massive shield multiplier/extender that increases shield HP making a Titan as strong as a POS when activated. The titan jumpbridges in with a support fleet, activates its shield and lets the rest of the pilots jumpclone into the shis its carrying while using its own guns and launchers to deal with the capital ships in the opposing fleet. Give titans a 500% gun damage bonus or the like, making them strong enough to take on dreadnaught/carrier fleets. To kill a Titan you would have to bring a substantial capital fleet of your own with support. That would make Titans the tool to turn the tide in a fleet battle like originally was intended, not a tool thats afk 99% of the time... ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Lucita Thoron Minmatar ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.24 16:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Snake Doctor Titans are perfect. (...) I TOTALY disagree. Its worst ship for me! Why? Simply because its killing A LOT of fun! And im looking only at FUN aspect here please remember. Now everyone is trying to hit enemy with DDD and with one shot win battle :( Ok its no problem that they want to win, but we can have 20+ minutes epic fight with battleships, dreads, other capitals, smallers ships etc... But if someones wants to win he choses titan ofcourse for that job but for fun id like to see xxx ships at field not just 1 nuclear bomb droped at everybody and then silence, wait x hours for next battle :( "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies."
Heisenburg Principle	Posted - 2007.03.24 16:31:00 - [49] Don't you mean 20+ minutes of epic lag? Thats the problem with a titan, the entourage that tends to follow it and the immense lag it creates. This all equals 4 frames per minute and no fun for anyone. Where a titan goes lag is sure to follow.
Dasi	Posted - 2007.03.24 16:58:00 - [50] Edited by: Dasi on 24/03/2007 16:58:07 The only thing I dislike about Titans is the fact that it makes lots and lots of capitol ships the only way to effectively siege a POS with one (two? three?) in system. The last thing Eve needs is for another discouragement for new players. "Siege a POS? Are you mad? Your support BS would get vaporised. Leave it to the Cap. pilots." Of course maybe CCP thinks its good to force everyone into Capitol class ships? I am not sure. Before the cap boost Titans were much more balanced. The remote cyno is lame. Adjust the remote Cyno so it doesn't do full strength and fix the cap the way it WAS and you would have a perfectly balenced ship.

Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.03.24 17:02:00 - [51] Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 24/03/2007 17:00:01 1) About the remote firing: yes it doesn't really make sense, but if you think that the DD would have any practical application if it didn't exist, you are sadly mistaken. The Titans are SLOOOOOOOOOOOW and unmanoeuvrable. People already manage to GTFO of the cyno ships bringing the DD, so however would the Titan manage to catch anyone? Personnaly, I'd like the DD to be changed into a supergun that could pretty much wipe out a POS on its own (and anything between it and the Titan) but would have a RoF of like a shot a day or something. 2) About invulnerability to scrams: I think the Titans should come with and incredible amount of warp core strength (like Blockade Runners). It would still be possible to scram them, but you would need a massive amount of scramming ships to do this. FLAMING When you can't think of logical arguments and are too dumb to STFU
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.24 17:04:00 - [52] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 17:02:32 BS sieging a POS is silly anyway. You don't need a titan to vapourize your eneemy in that case. Oh, and as to remote dd being needed, thats rubbish. Again, please stfu unless you've actually been involved in fights involving titans. [center] Old blog
Dasi	Posted - 2007.03.24 17:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 24/03/2007 17:02:32 BS sieging a POS is silly anyway. You don't need a titan to vapourize your eneemy in that case. Oh, and as to remote dd being needed, thats rubbish. Again, please stfu unless you've actually been involved in fights involving titans. Hey BoB. Support BS'es are used in POS warfare. And the "PLZ STFU" is exactly the reason Eve wants you gone. This is a discussion forum not troll the hell out of anyone because they want to talk about a popular topic forum. So what if I or anyone else doesn't have a clue? Let people roll around in their ignorance without screaming "STFU STFU Noooob" at everyone. Or hell continue to troll.
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.24 17:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Xendie one of the problems i think is the reaload of the DDD it should be atlest 4hours or something and half dmg if shot through cyno. another problem is that they can cyno in, shoot and cyno out with the cap they got. the DDD should take atleast 50-75% cap to fire. agreed ------------
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.24 17:21:00 - [55] Originally by: Dasi Hey BoB. Support BS'es are used in POS warfare. And the "PLZ STFU" is exactly the reason Eve wants you gone. This is a discussion forum not troll the hell out of anyone because they want to talk about a popular topic forum. So what if I or anyone else doesn't have a clue? Let people roll around in their ignorance without screaming "STFU STFU Noooob" at everyone. Or hell continue to troll. ` If you want to talk about titans it helps when you know how they actually work. So far, every second post in this thread contains assumptions or assertions that are simply wrong. BS fleets aren't used to siege pos's much. BS's are used to support dreads sieging pos's. That's two wholly different scenarios. As for you wanting us gone, big deal, we're not going anywhere. [center] Old blog
Tulakh	Posted - 2007.03.24 17:49:00 - [56] Please i ask the bob member to not attack / flame people aswell as other people to stop bashing back because that is not what i want with the topic, it is to get an general idea about titans, get an idea about things that may be to overpowered and eventually even give some solutions to a possible fix to make them not look like "i win" buttons as that describes them at current. An to powerfull item, weapon, tool, etc can have a long term impact on any game specific when the people know how to deploy this power very fast in their advantage before it is changed. Specificly it can create feeling with people like "what if it had been right from the start and this did not happen what would <game> look like now". It is like the ability to take stuff gained in a beta phase of a game or from an exploit while everyone else has to start from scratch with nothing and could not gain trough the same methods, it is an unbalanced advantage and could eventually throw everything out of controll. Anyway i have had a new idea for titans which may very well be alot more realistic. The idea comes somewhat from the C&C 3 demo sorry about stealing an idea from there but it looks it could work out for a titan aswell. What it is about is that a titan needs power and alot of power to fire the weapon. If it is on the local battlefield it could fire the weapon with a charge from the capacitors depleting / minimiseing cap to a very low ammount. But if it wants to remote cyno launch the weapon it would need additional power, power that is behond its own generateing capacity. What this means is that you would need a titan + minimally 1 additional ship provideing additional power which slowly charges up (the more ships used the faster this charge goes). This means that if someone wants to use DD remote cyno blasts they would need to create a cyno field, target the cyno and then start the chargeup to actually put the blast trough the cyno but depending on the support arround the titan this means it may need that much time that could either make the attack succeed or fail leaving the titan with a wasted shot, all out of juice for a short time. It also means that whatever the titan owners do they have to dedicate a few people to the titan in order to speed up the charge or bring the titan to the frontlines if they cant miss the people. Atleast this doesn't sound horrible like a "sitting siege duck" / supernerfed titan because however you turn it makeing it completely vulnerable like that is also not good because it would also suck to get a 80 - 100 bil ship shot to peaces that way (because everyone there will target the titan for sure as thats the biggest loss). About this point i agree, the titan stays no matter what because its intended role is to divert from the massive blobs and it does work in that particular role, it should just not be untouchable when it does.
Vardemis Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.03.24 18:26:00 - [57] Originally by: Helmut 314 [...] That would make Titans the tool to turn the tide in a fleet battle like originally was intended, not a tool thats afk 99% of the time... Well, they do turn the tide in a fleet battle quite effectivly now.
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2007.03.24 19:18:00 - [58] In WWII, a full carrier air strike could be seen as an "i win" button. There was a lot of risk and uncertainty in getting your carriers into position to make that launch but if your planes made it to target, it would be taking serious damage. Even heavies like cruisers and battleships were vulnerable to air attack. If EVE were to take that analogy to heart, then the biggest threat to a titan would be another titan. Perhaps the doomsday weapon would have an area effect mode (as it does now) and a beam weapon effect where it's doing all the damage to one target. So now the battle becomes a guessing game of whether your opponent has a titan to field, where it might be, and whether you might leave your titan vulnerable by moving it into battle and employing the DD. Right now it sounds like titans are unmitigated pwnmobiles. Can't say for sure since I can't fly one but it sure sounds like they could do with some balancing. It seems rather unbalanced, for example, that a DD blast costs 20 mil when the isk value of the ships destroyed is so much higher. Just from my POV, it would seem to make more sense for titans to be treated somewhat like a cross between a ballistic missile sub and a secret mobile base. Ballistic subs are strategic targets and you never want your enemy to know where they are, the threat of retalliation is supposed to prevent a larger war. And if the war does occur, then the sub ensures that your side will have vengence. Additionally, it sounds like a titan is like a mobile POS and so can support a fight far away from friendly bases. It sounds a lot like the floating bases the US Navy is working on, many times larger than aircraft carriers, that are giant multi-unit barges floated into place offshore from an area of operation, moored, and assembled into a general purpose base large enough to operate Air Force jets without catapults or arrestor gear. It would have hospitals, maintenence shops, barracks, etc, like carriers and amphibious landing ships buffed by a factor of 50. What I'm getting at is that this isn't the sort of thing you risk directly in a fight, you keep it back from the fight and let the smaller ships do the dirty work. The DD is there to make sure that ship can defend itself but you wouldn't want to risk that much ISK in combat if you can avoid it.
Vily Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.24 19:45:00 - [59] Having been on BOTH sides of the coin, fighting against ET's titan in L5D and fighting with BOB's on a few occassion's I can say that there is not a whole lot wrong wtih them. the REMOTE activation is a little out of what, i agree with that and i think most everyone does. it hardly gets used at all regardless, but the option should probably be removed regardless. Titan's deployed on the field only have the sustainable tank of a dreadnaught, they have a HUGE buffer more though. So if you can break a dread tank you can break a titan tank, it just takes FOREVER and EVER. and because it takes so long, holding them there becomes the issue. how do you hold a titan then becomes the question, because to break the tank is nothing incredible. dictor bubble, NOS, bumps, and mobile deployables are the only thing that slwo them down. sadly, titans can usually jump out after a DD if they have been in system a while. it takes more cap killing than any fleet can possbily hope to bear to nuet a titan down, so if a titan has been in system for a period to be 90+% cap, you theoretically should not be able to kill him. bumping is legitimate, but only temporarily holds someone as they will sooner or later end up aligned. mobile's dont cancel warp and take forever to deploy. If you want titans to be fixed, FIX DICTOR BUBBLES. all it takes and all of a sudden they aren't as scary. make dictor bubbles cancel warp of anything within their sphere when launched. and of course prevent jumping away. ALL IF FRIGGIN TAKES. currently... titan DD's, initiates warp, gets bubbled, warps away. should be.... titan DD's, initiates warp, gets bubbled, fighting ensues. -
Doppleganger Minmatar Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.24 20:19:00 - [60] Originally by: Vily dictor bubble, NOS, bumps, and mobile deployables are the only thing that slwo them down. sadly, titans can usually jump out after a DD if they have been in system a while. it takes more cap killing than any fleet can possbily hope to bear to nuet a titan down, so if a titan has been in system for a period to be 90+% cap, you theoretically should not be able to kill him. I was hoping CCP was going to release capital nos and nuets to help with something like this but now thinking about it.... which would you rather fit to a titan? Guns that dont get any bonuses or cap nos along with the DD and smartbombs. So i guess that would make the situation kinda moot of sicking custom fitted dreads and carriers that were setup only to drain the titans cap cause he would just drain them right back and still escape.

Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:31:00 - [61] Edited by: Helmut 314 on 25/03/2007 01:31:13 Originally by: Vardemis Originally by: Helmut 314 [...] That would make Titans the tool to turn the tide in a fleet battle like originally was intended, not a tool thats afk 99% of the time... Well, they do turn the tide in a fleet battle quite effectivly now. Actually, they dont. Titans dont turn the tide of battle, they ensure that there wont be a standup fight. Good for the nodes I guess but hardly something that enhances gameplay. Instead of ship thats awesome in power and something to fear when it appears we got a massive smartbomb platform that can sit across the system and kill support ships once an hour. I think most will agree with me that a Titan is a quite boring ship compared to what everyone expected. The concept of risk vs reward that was once the proud banner of CCP is conspicuosly absent when it comes to Titans. Read the chronicle of the battle of Vak'Athiot, thats what we expect of a titan. Quote: For hours streams of glaring light lit up the system that night, the nimble Jove frigates diving into the Amarr fleet, their ranged cruisers supporting them with laser-fire over a distance and the titanic Mothership firing blast after blast of its extreme-range weapons; cannons created specifically for this battle. The smaller vessels holding the Jovian line prevented Amarrian squads from coming close enough to fire upon their nemesis, leaving the fleet defenseless against its onslaught. ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.25 02:01:00 - [62] I like the idea of changing the DDD to be a giant beam weapon that one shots deathstars, and then give it a 24 hour cooldown. Since then it would also make the Titan a capitol and Titan killer. And that would be awesome.
Sniser 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.25 02:56:00 - [63] i think the doomsday should work as a single target attack with range but with high damage every 1 or 2 min,maybe 10000 dmg or so. Just like many others space games were the capital ship have one main attack with high damage but will high cooldown. also as many people said. titan should have high warp strengh but not inmune. i think would be a lot more cool having a high damage attack with less cooldown rather a super huge damage attack with huge cooldown It's great being Amarr, ain't it?


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