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Disgusted with Customer support

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Kandazar Darkheart	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:49:00 - [1] Seeing as how when asked to submit my experience with a closed out petition, and in fact the submission page keeps sending me a Null exception error. I will post this here. As for the rating from 0 to 100? I will say a 10 (at least they replied to the petition after 3 days) Reason for rating is this. Very VERY unhappy, this is the second ship I've lost because of a Game glitch. This time I lost a ship worth over 300 million. I had Screen shots as proof of the glitch and was referred to the bug report department. On top of that I had witnesses for the first incident and they wouldnt even listen to them. If this is the competency of you Gm staff then I hope your bug reporting team does better. If thats not the case, I going have no choice but to report to the BBB.
Terra Mauter Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:54:00 - [2] Read what you signed in the EULA, they don't HAVE to reimburse you.. you agree'd to lose everything due to server performance.. so stfu? kthxbye
Cougem Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Terra Mauter Read what you signed in the EULA, they don't HAVE to reimburse you.. you agree'd to lose everything due to server performance.. so stfu? kthxbye That's a horrible reply. So what if CCP cover their asses in th EULA? That doesn't mean it's right. I mean yeh, this guy lost some ships and it isn't the worst thing in the world, but to reply in such a horrible manner and imply it's fine because it's in the EULA is just crap. It's also in the EULA that CCP can cut you off if they want to, but nobody would pretend that's OK. Look at the massive uproar about them cutting off kugutsmen, even though their reasons (well 1 of them) was well within the EULA.
Selena 001	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Terra Mauter Read what you signed in the EULA 5th person I know who actually decided to waste an hour of their lives reading that throughly... Some people must have very little to do with their lives. To the OP: Either ask for it to be escalated, or leave it be. Those are your only 2 options and I'm willing to bet the first option wont get you any closer to a reimbursement anyway. This is the way EVE has operated for years, and it will NEVER change. You either kiss ass when you submit it, or do it just to make the GM's pull their finger out and do some work ___________ NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!!
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:05:00 - [5] Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies. If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously. If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:10:00 - [6] What glitch was it? Describe it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
TheFirstInquisitor	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:17:00 - [7] Freelancer, that post just made my day. /me sits grinning at the thought of CCP having to do reimbursements within a month of submission with glee. Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross.
Losmandy VENOM72 Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Terra Mauter Read what you signed in the EULA, they don't HAVE to reimburse you.. you agree'd to lose everything due to server performance.. so stfu? kthxbye Whoa matey the OP was expessing his opinion and frustration,is that a problem for you.
Malcanis Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:26:00 - [9] Wow, that's a shame. I filed my first and only petition a couple of days ago and got a full reply & a satisfactory resolution within 2 hours. Perhaps a certain element of luck is involved. Also I did take some care to present all the information I could think of in as concise & orderly a way as I could manage, and also to be polite to the people I was asking to help me.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:29:00 - [10] couldent you just tell us what the bug was and what happened? there might be a good reason for it or it might be something you need to request to escalate it to a senior GM, but with no details we can't really help. -
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Malcanis Also I did take some care to present all the information I could think of in as concise & orderly a way as I could manage, and also to be polite to the people I was asking to help me. I just type "Get my stuff back NOW or ELSE! I was playing the game and lost a ship due to something happened, fix it or ill cancel my account!", and the game masters are ignoring me. Customer support sucks! =) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:52:00 - [12] what "glitch" are you referring to, thats causing you to lose ships like mad? --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Too Ducky ToXiC. Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:58:00 - [13] Originally by: FreelancerAlpha Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies. If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously. If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues. All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple.
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:00:00 - [14] i have petitioned several times over the last few years. all petitions were dealt with as promptly as possible. in my experience gm's are very helpful when they can be. sometimes ive lost ships due to glitches and not had them reimbursed as theres no server side proof as to what happened. gutted at the time? yes. got over it eventually ? yes. **** happens sometimes. sorry for your loss, your not the first and wont be the last. you will goet over it.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:02:00 - [15] the 4 reimbusement i filled in a year and some month were all proceeded witin 14 days dont fly something you cant loose the 3 problems i had were resolved in 10-20 minutes so i give them 99 out of 100 _______________________________________________ EVEpedia[Deutsch/German] add
Sicariidae Caldari Deep Space Consortium Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:07:00 - [16] /me wonders what the BBB is going to do about anything related to a complaint in this game.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:10:00 - [17] Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Alyth Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:13:00 - [18] I see no problem with EVEs customer support. Every stuck petition I filed (and these were back when Yulai was the hub and 12k people on a Sunday was a lot) got answered within a minute, bugged missions within about 5 and I petitioned my ship loss due to EVE hanging in a mission (couldn't even alt tab out so I had to restart manually) and got my Raven back within about 8 days. With ship reimbursements BEWARE....you lose the insurance money from your wallet (possible to go negative meaning you can't sell anything until someone gives you a loan to get you above 0.00 isk) and you ONLY get the destroyed modules back.
Sadyre	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Too Ducky All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. You're missing something. While the eula is a contract between you and ccp, it's still up to the court to decide if the eula is legal, or not, even partially. The outcome about the initial complain will be decided after, according to the rest of the eula that has been ruled legal.
Alyth Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Sadyre Originally by: Too Ducky All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. You're missing something. While the eula is a contract between you and ccp, it's still up to the court to decide if the eula is legal, or not, even partially. The outcome about the initial complain will be decided after, according to the rest of the eula that has been ruled legal. OMG I SUE YOUZ!!!! I LOSTED AN ITEM IN A GAEM!!!!!1111
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:24:00 - [21] I've had 2 of 3 ship reimbursements granted in the past. I would have gotten the third reimbursed but by the time they got to it I had already spent the insurance money :(. All 3 where PVE losses, and involved lag :(. I've never petitioned a PVP loss in game. Anyway you could ask to esculate the petition if you believe the first GM ruled in error. There is no guarantee it will work but you could try. ( I did not have to escalate my 3 :) ). I've found working with Customer Support that it is always best to be polite and open with them. You don't want to turn them against you before they even get into the meat of the problem :). Galactic Express Recruitment Post Thoughts expressed are mine and
Radioactive Babe Red Frost	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Sadyre You're missing something. While the eula is a contract between you and ccp, it's still up to the court to decide if the eula is legal, or not, even partially. The outcome about the initial complain will be decided after, according to the rest of the eula that has been ruled legal. Indeed, and there have been cases where one or more of the sections are illegal in the players country of residence and the ENTIRE eula gets thrown out (despite whatever crap they put in the EULA saying otherwise) ... Alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
Tiranith	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Too Ducky Originally by: FreelancerAlpha Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies. If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously. If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues. All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. This is why I come to the forums... legal advice, Let me guess you are a) a lawyer for a very important company b) a judge (probably a senior judge right?) 3) a 12 year old who does not have a clue what you are talking about
Phoenix Lord The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:11:00 - [24] I skipped thru all the trolling, i just wanted to say something. Ive had 3 petitions so far, all three have been answered in less than a day. I guess sometimes people just get unlucky, but i have never had a problem with the petitions. Arrow Capital Ship Sales
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:23:00 - [25] Out of the 6-7 petitions I've had, I've only had 1 that was reimbursement-related (lost items, when in reality I was mis-dragging them to another ship). All of them were answered promptly and fairly. A certain sense of common decency please, GM's are people too - NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:31:00 - [26] Originally by: FreelancerAlpha If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Wrong. The real life cash you used was for GTCs which you recieved no problems, if CCP took the cash for those and then screwed up handing you the GTCs THEN you'd have a case. Just becuase you decide to abuse the GTC system to acquire isk/ships/mods does not mean you have bought them with your own money. They remain the property of CCP who could simply delete them if they felt like it, and you'd have no say in the matter.
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:40:00 - [27] I just think they have to respond faster .. I mean, its no biggy to write an algorithm to check server logs for lag .. You have your server logs, right? And i'm not sure if you check for responce time on players (ea, are they seeing this player shooting em) So when i fill a ship lose petition, and submit it, you attach the local logs to it (simple ..) and compare em to the server. Shouldnt be to difficult to detect lag in em. Same can be done for harassment and stuff. People, who needs em ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft	Posted - 2007.03.24 14:01:00 - [28] this one vid shall explain many things: http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=308 (not 100% suitable for work environments......) Read the user agreement! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook [Datacore - Quantum Physics] x 40
ZuN3 OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.24 14:47:00 - [29] I've lost somewhere in the region of 1.5-2 bill isk due to lag/bugs. Didn't feel the need to make a thread about it though, . You're not the only one, get over it.
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.24 15:30:00 - [30] screenshots arent proof, and neither are witnesses. both are too easy to fake. sadly CCP cannot reimburse ships unless it is clear in their logs that it was due to the game/server/bug that you lost the ship, or they'd have 10000 petitions a day of people claiming they lost a ship to lag. ------------

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