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hango
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.03.24 15:49:00 -
[31]
I've cleaned up the thread a bit. No more flaming / trolling please.
forum rules | [email protected] | Our Website
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Pax Althaleen
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.24 16:24:00 -
[32]
It must have been the way You worded Your petition or the way You went about getting GM assistance that is causing this "Lack of Assistance" in terms of coming to a resolution...
4 Days ago I lost a Raven to Guristas Blockade in which I got lagged out by incredible aggro coupled with a Client Disc. at the same time.
I petitioned the loss to the GMs and the next day I was returned My ship and It's fittings in the System I was then in.
Additionally, two days ago a Gangmate of mine had a similar occurrence - Petitioned the Loss due to already stated circumstances - And was returned His ship the next day with all of the fittings which had been blown up in the wreck.
That said, I worded My Petition's Title as follows;
"Ship loss due to severe lag and subsequent Client disconnect"
What I will say at this point by echoing another poster in this thread is that I was overly nice and helpful in my Petition. I detailed it all for them so they only had to do minimal checking on the facts and could resolve My issues as fast as was possible.
I simply let them make the decision at that point as is only normal. They're the Judge or will be designated as such in dealing with our Petitions and so with that here is the following advice.
Making Your own Judgements on the validity of Your case or writing in Your Petition that You think the loss is unfair or lame is the wrong way to go. You need to serve the Freudian elements in this scenario.
What I mean is this. If You make a Judgement in Your Petition and the "Judge" (GM) comes along to deal with It, He/She has to deal with You already having made an assumption about what happened. This does not serve the necessity of their being the Judge in that instance, and more often that not they'll Judge that something else happened other than what You assumed happened.
Its just human nature, but to serve Your own Issues at a point like this its always helpful to let THEM make the assumptions on what has happened and take the appropriate actions to resolve the Petition.
Example:
Gangmate I spoke of earlier in this Post wrote in His Petition;
"I think its incredibly unfair to have lost a ship in this way, and It is Your stated duty to deal with Issues that EVE's Server creates for the Client base".
I told him that all that statement would likely do is get Him no satisfaction at all as the GMs will likely think Hes a "know-it-all/Cronic Complainer" who got themself in trouble and now wants the easy way out due to their own mistakes in relation to their loss.
I said to Him how about write it like this and let them make the assumptions as to what really occurred.
"This is an incredibly hard way to lose a ship. As It is Your stated duty to deal with Issues that EVE's Server creates for the Cleint base, It is my sincerest hope that You can look into what has happened in terms of resolving this Issue both to mine and CCP's satisfaction. If there is any addtional Information I can provide please contact Me and I will make efforts to gather it for You immediately.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Gangmate"
Guess what - He got reimbursed as He served the Freudian elements in His scenario, and that let them be the Judge...
Personally, I give Support a 100 out of 100. And to all the Trolls who would say - "Meh, You're just a Suckup/Fanboy" - C'mon, get a clue...
How else would You rate GMs who have always been courteous to You, have resolved Your Issues to ultimate satisfaction, and are always there to deal with Your Issues 23/7?
Once again - 100 out of 100 - No Fanboy | No Suckup, just my honest opinion based on their treatment of Issues that I've seen...
Respectfully,
Pax Althaleen
Holder - House Althaleen |
Ishara Da'Ahn
Amarr
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.24 16:49:00 -
[33]
Sorry,I just can't resist...... 1 word missing 
 Originally by: hango
Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango
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Ashareth
Caldari
Disturbed Hoggs
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Posted - 2007.03.24 18:14:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Too Ducky
Originally by: FreelancerAlpha
Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies.
If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously.
If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness.
Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues.
All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple.
You are wrong on this one.
First, even in the US where the law is contract based, EULA are not law.
EULA HAS to be legal in every manner, in every country where the service/product is provided.
Granted that most(99,999% in fact) of software/services sellers are putting illegal clauses in their EULA(there is at elast one or two in EVE's regarding the law of my country, where CCP officially sell EVE:D), but it's not a reason to think they are right to do it.
Someday, they will start to have trouble(it only takes one or two rullings in any counrty against them and they will all begin to abide, like most phone providers did, or other companies, even if they will still try to put illegal clauses in it.
That being said, if you agreed to an EULA and there is no illegal clause, you are the only one to blame if something happens.
If there is an illegal clause, it's another matter, the main one is "have you enough money, time and dedication to bring it to court knowing it'll take months/years before you get what you want?".
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"Heaven is for the Dead
Hell is for the Living"
Harrisson Flowerchild AndromFde |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.03.24 18:23:00 -
[35]
Originally by: hango
Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango
Best. One. Ever.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Denrace
Amarr
J.H.E.N.R
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.03.24 18:30:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Denrace on 24/03/2007 18:29:05
3 words:
Join. The. Club.
Ive lost loads of ships to bugs and glitches, half of which are known issues and had other players notice the glitch also.
Ive got some back, and some Ive had no response to.
At the end of the day, the GM's are (hopefully) doing the best job they can against a continually growing pile of petitions.
Like the poster a few above me mentions, just be nice and explain everything from a neutral point of view.
Den
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Holder of 21 Hobo Points. See my bio for info |
Jollyreaper
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.24 18:42:00 -
[37]
I've had good luck with the petitions I've had to file. Haven't petitioned anything bigger than a cruiser. But I know the limitations of the system. I simply refuse to fly T2 drones because I know they WILL be lost. I can cope with losing a wing of Ogres. I CANNOT cope with losing a wing of T2 anything.
Petitions for lags and bugs have also went well. Mission screwups that would have cost me faction standings were also corrected so I have no complaints. Ain't nothing more annoying than beating a mission and finding out the mcguffin you're supposed to return never spawned.
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Kinjeta n'Tari
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Posted - 2007.03.24 18:57:00 -
[38]
I'm on day 6 of waiting for my petition to be answered regarding recovery of my account :( i feel yas
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Kandazar Darkheart
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Posted - 2007.03.25 00:05:00 -
[39]
The first one I could understand, Some one stole a corp can was flashing red, but appenently after i finally lock him up and fired the flag dropped then was concorded. I can see that as a coincidence, even though I had 5 corp mates see it happen. The second one I had Just left one corp to join another..the corp I was originally in was apart of the privateer aliance, meaning? lotsa war targets. So knowing this I decided to log off after I joined up with the new corp because, i noticed someone in the station on the guest list was still showing up as a WT (red star). When I logged back on I undocked and had yet another WT in front of the station. Since i did a total relog, I thought that the system would of cleared so it was a viable WT. Well and you guessed it Being a WT i did what any other would do I fired on it and destroy the target. Then Station guns started firing on me and concord warped in to take out my abaddon (with 2 power rigs and cap charge rig) so after i was put into a pod. I took screen shost of still more people showing up as war targets, Both outside the station, and inside the station on the guest list of the same people. The thing that got me was the respose was "Well our logs do not show a glitch so we are unable to reimburse you ship." Almost exactly as the first time. Is that the company line or something?
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.25 00:44:00 -
[40]
I've only ever had 3 or 4 petitions, and all were answered within 2 or 3 days. 2 were for ship reimbursement, and were both successful. 1 was for a particularly troublesome macro(usually I don't bother, but this was was being really disruptive) and I got the usual macro-report reply, and the other was a POS problem one, and it all worked out ok at the end.
So I'd say I was pretty happy with it. 90 / 100 maybe; room for improvement 
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Raketefrau
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.25 01:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Raketefrau on 25/03/2007 01:38:28
Originally by: Too Ducky
All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple.
A EULA is not really legally binding until tested in a court of law. They could put "your life is forfeit" into the EULA, and you would still play the game, that doesn't mean they can come to your house and knife you.
EULAs can state all kinds of illegal things, but it doesn't mean they're all binding.
(Patch, how the hell are we always drawn to the same threads?)
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Valorem ([email protected])
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Asimov Andies
Gallente
Red Blade Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.25 01:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kandazar Darkheart
I going have no choice but to report to the BBB.
Isn't that only an american institute. Last i checked it wasn't in England on my last visit?
-=#=-
Angry beer bottles make Kaemonn a sad panda
NO It's Been Touched |
AirWalker
Amarr
Galactic Response Team
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Posted - 2007.03.25 02:20:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kandazar Darkheart
Very VERY unhappy, this is the second ship I've lost because of a Game glitch. This time I lost a ship worth over 300 million. I had Screen shots as proof of the glitch and was referred to the bug report department. On top of that I had witnesses for the first incident and they wouldnt even listen to them. If this is the competency of you Gm staff then I hope your bug reporting team does better. If thats not the case, I going have no choice but to report to the BBB.
every bit of proof there isn't useful to any gm for replacing your ship...
screenshot: easily doctored
witnesses: i could 500 people to say something happened doesn't mean its true
and the bbb can't do jack all....its a private company that just provides feedback on other companies and won't get your problem solved at all nor help anyone else
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.25 02:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Raketefrau
A EULA is not really legally binding until tested in a court of law. They could put "your life is forfeit" into the EULA, and you would still play the game, that doesn't mean they can come to your house and knife you.
EULAs can state all kinds of illegal things, but it doesn't mean they're all binding.
(Patch, how the hell are we always drawn to the same threads?)
I am in ALL THREADS, you just happen to pop into some of them 
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The Socialworker
Minmatar
The Socialworkers
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Posted - 2007.03.25 02:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ishara Da'Ahn
Sorry,I just can't resist...... 1 word missing
Originally by: hango
Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango
Drunk?
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Kandazar Darkheart
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Posted - 2007.03.27 05:20:00 -
[46]
After reading some of these post, and looking back on my actions, I feel I owe a public formal apology. I acted on heated thoughts and I am sorry. You are right it is just a game and I lost sight of that.
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Revolution Rising
Minmatar
Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.27 05:27:00 -
[47]
Hold on, there's customer support?
RR
CEO Venture Research and Resources.
VRR Homepage |
Arialla
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Posted - 2007.03.27 05:52:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Arialla on 27/03/2007 05:49:07
Originally by: Xaroth Brook
this one vid shall explain many things:
http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=308
(not 100% suitable for work environments......)
Read the user agreement!
That link made my virus scanner crap its pants. I recommend you don't click it. Actually, I recommend a mod should remove it.
-- Arialla
Originally by: Robocop
Scammer: You probably don't think I'm a very nice guy, do ya?
Murphy: Buddy, I think you're slime.
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.27 06:41:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cougem
1. So what if CCP cover their asses in th EULA? That doesn't mean it's right. ...
2. ...but to reply in such a horrible manner and imply it's fine because it's in the EULA is just crap.
It's also in the EULA that CCP can cut you off if they want to, but nobody would pretend that's OK....
3.
Look at the massive uproar about them cutting off kugutsmen, even though their reasons (well 1 of them) was well within the EULA.
Sorry, I bring this old post right to the front because I think a lot of it has been largely overlooked for it's complete incorrectness. Ref numbers,
1. It's more than right, it's ethical too. A EULA is a contract, nothing more, nothing less. EVERYTHING is in plain. If a contract states that a company has the right to do whatever they like to the service they're providing to you, whether it adversely affects you or not, then once you agree they can do that. It's not right or wrong for a company to do what their contract states, it's ignorant for you not to realise that.
2. Look at most of point 1. People get angry and complain because the lifestyle they enjoyed is ruined, yet are, once again, ignorant that that was always something which could happen. I'm sorry, but I'd refuse to do business with anybody if any form of agreement which stated what I was allowed to do could be completely ignored.
3. Of course there was massive uproar. People who benefited saw this as a bad thing, obviously, while people who were (and I know I'm laboring a point) ignorant. CCP was indeed well within the EULA, so there's absolutely nothing to go into uproar about. It's ignorance which creates a false illusion that you have any rights within such agreements, when in fact they are privilidges which can be taken away at any time, for any reason.
So my point? Ignorance,, everybody posesses it on these forums, heck, even I'd be a bit surly if they suddenly cut me off for no reason,, but I know it's within their right to.
Also, any reference to *you* in these quotes is just an abstract reference, not a reference to the person i quoted.
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Maam
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Posted - 2007.03.27 07:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Xtro 2
Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango
Well that won't have much of an effect on most threads here then! 
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