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Kandazar Darkheart	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:49:00 - [1] Seeing as how when asked to submit my experience with a closed out petition, and in fact the submission page keeps sending me a Null exception error. I will post this here. As for the rating from 0 to 100? I will say a 10 (at least they replied to the petition after 3 days) Reason for rating is this. Very VERY unhappy, this is the second ship I've lost because of a Game glitch. This time I lost a ship worth over 300 million. I had Screen shots as proof of the glitch and was referred to the bug report department. On top of that I had witnesses for the first incident and they wouldnt even listen to them. If this is the competency of you Gm staff then I hope your bug reporting team does better. If thats not the case, I going have no choice but to report to the BBB.
Terra Mauter Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:54:00 - [2] Read what you signed in the EULA, they don't HAVE to reimburse you.. you agree'd to lose everything due to server performance.. so stfu? kthxbye
Cougem Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 10:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Terra Mauter Read what you signed in the EULA, they don't HAVE to reimburse you.. you agree'd to lose everything due to server performance.. so stfu? kthxbye That's a horrible reply. So what if CCP cover their asses in th EULA? That doesn't mean it's right. I mean yeh, this guy lost some ships and it isn't the worst thing in the world, but to reply in such a horrible manner and imply it's fine because it's in the EULA is just crap. It's also in the EULA that CCP can cut you off if they want to, but nobody would pretend that's OK. Look at the massive uproar about them cutting off kugutsmen, even though their reasons (well 1 of them) was well within the EULA.
Selena 001	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Terra Mauter Read what you signed in the EULA 5th person I know who actually decided to waste an hour of their lives reading that throughly... Some people must have very little to do with their lives. To the OP: Either ask for it to be escalated, or leave it be. Those are your only 2 options and I'm willing to bet the first option wont get you any closer to a reimbursement anyway. This is the way EVE has operated for years, and it will NEVER change. You either kiss ass when you submit it, or do it just to make the GM's pull their finger out and do some work ___________ NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!!
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:05:00 - [5] Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies. If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously. If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:10:00 - [6] What glitch was it? Describe it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
TheFirstInquisitor	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:17:00 - [7] Freelancer, that post just made my day. /me sits grinning at the thought of CCP having to do reimbursements within a month of submission with glee. Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross.
Losmandy VENOM72 Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Terra Mauter Read what you signed in the EULA, they don't HAVE to reimburse you.. you agree'd to lose everything due to server performance.. so stfu? kthxbye Whoa matey the OP was expessing his opinion and frustration,is that a problem for you.
Malcanis Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:26:00 - [9] Wow, that's a shame. I filed my first and only petition a couple of days ago and got a full reply & a satisfactory resolution within 2 hours. Perhaps a certain element of luck is involved. Also I did take some care to present all the information I could think of in as concise & orderly a way as I could manage, and also to be polite to the people I was asking to help me.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:29:00 - [10] couldent you just tell us what the bug was and what happened? there might be a good reason for it or it might be something you need to request to escalate it to a senior GM, but with no details we can't really help. -
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Malcanis Also I did take some care to present all the information I could think of in as concise & orderly a way as I could manage, and also to be polite to the people I was asking to help me. I just type "Get my stuff back NOW or ELSE! I was playing the game and lost a ship due to something happened, fix it or ill cancel my account!", and the game masters are ignoring me. Customer support sucks! =) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:52:00 - [12] what "glitch" are you referring to, thats causing you to lose ships like mad? --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Too Ducky ToXiC. Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:58:00 - [13] Originally by: FreelancerAlpha Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies. If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously. If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues. All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple.
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:00:00 - [14] i have petitioned several times over the last few years. all petitions were dealt with as promptly as possible. in my experience gm's are very helpful when they can be. sometimes ive lost ships due to glitches and not had them reimbursed as theres no server side proof as to what happened. gutted at the time? yes. got over it eventually ? yes. **** happens sometimes. sorry for your loss, your not the first and wont be the last. you will goet over it.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:02:00 - [15] the 4 reimbusement i filled in a year and some month were all proceeded witin 14 days dont fly something you cant loose the 3 problems i had were resolved in 10-20 minutes so i give them 99 out of 100 _______________________________________________ EVEpedia[Deutsch/German] add
Sicariidae Caldari Deep Space Consortium Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:07:00 - [16] /me wonders what the BBB is going to do about anything related to a complaint in this game.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:10:00 - [17] Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Alyth Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:13:00 - [18] I see no problem with EVEs customer support. Every stuck petition I filed (and these were back when Yulai was the hub and 12k people on a Sunday was a lot) got answered within a minute, bugged missions within about 5 and I petitioned my ship loss due to EVE hanging in a mission (couldn't even alt tab out so I had to restart manually) and got my Raven back within about 8 days. With ship reimbursements BEWARE....you lose the insurance money from your wallet (possible to go negative meaning you can't sell anything until someone gives you a loan to get you above 0.00 isk) and you ONLY get the destroyed modules back.
Sadyre	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Too Ducky All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. You're missing something. While the eula is a contract between you and ccp, it's still up to the court to decide if the eula is legal, or not, even partially. The outcome about the initial complain will be decided after, according to the rest of the eula that has been ruled legal.
Alyth Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Sadyre Originally by: Too Ducky All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. You're missing something. While the eula is a contract between you and ccp, it's still up to the court to decide if the eula is legal, or not, even partially. The outcome about the initial complain will be decided after, according to the rest of the eula that has been ruled legal. OMG I SUE YOUZ!!!! I LOSTED AN ITEM IN A GAEM!!!!!1111
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:24:00 - [21] I've had 2 of 3 ship reimbursements granted in the past. I would have gotten the third reimbursed but by the time they got to it I had already spent the insurance money :(. All 3 where PVE losses, and involved lag :(. I've never petitioned a PVP loss in game. Anyway you could ask to esculate the petition if you believe the first GM ruled in error. There is no guarantee it will work but you could try. ( I did not have to escalate my 3 :) ). I've found working with Customer Support that it is always best to be polite and open with them. You don't want to turn them against you before they even get into the meat of the problem :). Galactic Express Recruitment Post Thoughts expressed are mine and
Radioactive Babe Red Frost	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Sadyre You're missing something. While the eula is a contract between you and ccp, it's still up to the court to decide if the eula is legal, or not, even partially. The outcome about the initial complain will be decided after, according to the rest of the eula that has been ruled legal. Indeed, and there have been cases where one or more of the sections are illegal in the players country of residence and the ENTIRE eula gets thrown out (despite whatever crap they put in the EULA saying otherwise) ... Alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
Tiranith	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Too Ducky Originally by: FreelancerAlpha Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies. If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously. If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues. All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. This is why I come to the forums... legal advice, Let me guess you are a) a lawyer for a very important company b) a judge (probably a senior judge right?) 3) a 12 year old who does not have a clue what you are talking about
Phoenix Lord The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:11:00 - [24] I skipped thru all the trolling, i just wanted to say something. Ive had 3 petitions so far, all three have been answered in less than a day. I guess sometimes people just get unlucky, but i have never had a problem with the petitions. Arrow Capital Ship Sales
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:23:00 - [25] Out of the 6-7 petitions I've had, I've only had 1 that was reimbursement-related (lost items, when in reality I was mis-dragging them to another ship). All of them were answered promptly and fairly. A certain sense of common decency please, GM's are people too - NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:31:00 - [26] Originally by: FreelancerAlpha If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Wrong. The real life cash you used was for GTCs which you recieved no problems, if CCP took the cash for those and then screwed up handing you the GTCs THEN you'd have a case. Just becuase you decide to abuse the GTC system to acquire isk/ships/mods does not mean you have bought them with your own money. They remain the property of CCP who could simply delete them if they felt like it, and you'd have no say in the matter.
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:40:00 - [27] I just think they have to respond faster .. I mean, its no biggy to write an algorithm to check server logs for lag .. You have your server logs, right? And i'm not sure if you check for responce time on players (ea, are they seeing this player shooting em) So when i fill a ship lose petition, and submit it, you attach the local logs to it (simple ..) and compare em to the server. Shouldnt be to difficult to detect lag in em. Same can be done for harassment and stuff. People, who needs em ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft	Posted - 2007.03.24 14:01:00 - [28] this one vid shall explain many things: http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=308 (not 100% suitable for work environments......) Read the user agreement! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook [Datacore - Quantum Physics] x 40
ZuN3 OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.24 14:47:00 - [29] I've lost somewhere in the region of 1.5-2 bill isk due to lag/bugs. Didn't feel the need to make a thread about it though, . You're not the only one, get over it.
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.24 15:30:00 - [30] screenshots arent proof, and neither are witnesses. both are too easy to fake. sadly CCP cannot reimburse ships unless it is clear in their logs that it was due to the game/server/bug that you lost the ship, or they'd have 10000 petitions a day of people claiming they lost a ship to lag. ------------

hango Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.03.24 15:49:00 - [31] I've cleaned up the thread a bit. No more flaming / trolling please. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Pax Althaleen Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.24 16:24:00 - [32] It must have been the way You worded Your petition or the way You went about getting GM assistance that is causing this "Lack of Assistance" in terms of coming to a resolution... 4 Days ago I lost a Raven to Guristas Blockade in which I got lagged out by incredible aggro coupled with a Client Disc. at the same time. I petitioned the loss to the GMs and the next day I was returned My ship and It's fittings in the System I was then in. Additionally, two days ago a Gangmate of mine had a similar occurrence - Petitioned the Loss due to already stated circumstances - And was returned His ship the next day with all of the fittings which had been blown up in the wreck. That said, I worded My Petition's Title as follows; "Ship loss due to severe lag and subsequent Client disconnect" What I will say at this point by echoing another poster in this thread is that I was overly nice and helpful in my Petition. I detailed it all for them so they only had to do minimal checking on the facts and could resolve My issues as fast as was possible. I simply let them make the decision at that point as is only normal. They're the Judge or will be designated as such in dealing with our Petitions and so with that here is the following advice. Making Your own Judgements on the validity of Your case or writing in Your Petition that You think the loss is unfair or lame is the wrong way to go. You need to serve the Freudian elements in this scenario. What I mean is this. If You make a Judgement in Your Petition and the "Judge" (GM) comes along to deal with It, He/She has to deal with You already having made an assumption about what happened. This does not serve the necessity of their being the Judge in that instance, and more often that not they'll Judge that something else happened other than what You assumed happened. Its just human nature, but to serve Your own Issues at a point like this its always helpful to let THEM make the assumptions on what has happened and take the appropriate actions to resolve the Petition. Example: Gangmate I spoke of earlier in this Post wrote in His Petition; "I think its incredibly unfair to have lost a ship in this way, and It is Your stated duty to deal with Issues that EVE's Server creates for the Client base". I told him that all that statement would likely do is get Him no satisfaction at all as the GMs will likely think Hes a "know-it-all/Cronic Complainer" who got themself in trouble and now wants the easy way out due to their own mistakes in relation to their loss. I said to Him how about write it like this and let them make the assumptions as to what really occurred. "This is an incredibly hard way to lose a ship. As It is Your stated duty to deal with Issues that EVE's Server creates for the Cleint base, It is my sincerest hope that You can look into what has happened in terms of resolving this Issue both to mine and CCP's satisfaction. If there is any addtional Information I can provide please contact Me and I will make efforts to gather it for You immediately. Sincerely and Respectfully, Gangmate" Guess what - He got reimbursed as He served the Freudian elements in His scenario, and that let them be the Judge... Personally, I give Support a 100 out of 100. And to all the Trolls who would say - "Meh, You're just a Suckup/Fanboy" - C'mon, get a clue... How else would You rate GMs who have always been courteous to You, have resolved Your Issues to ultimate satisfaction, and are always there to deal with Your Issues 23/7? Once again - 100 out of 100 - No Fanboy \| No Suckup, just my honest opinion based on their treatment of Issues that I've seen... Respectfully, Pax Althaleen Holder - House Althaleen
Ishara Da'Ahn Amarr Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 16:49:00 - [33] Sorry,I just can't resist...... 1 word missing Originally by: hango Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango
Ashareth Caldari Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2007.03.24 18:14:00 - [34] Originally by: Too Ducky Originally by: FreelancerAlpha Even if we don't agree with his methods, the days of expecting MMOs to remain free of regulation are going to come to an end. Even the internet as a whole is starting to suffer as more and more politicians and bureaucrats get their fingers into the various pies. If I bought a GTC, sold it for ISK, bought a ship, then lost the ship in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, I probably would have trouble getting a court to take me seriously. If I bought 100 GTCs and sold them for ISK, then bought a dread and lost it in a glitch and wasn't reimbursed, there'd definately be a case. Not only would you have a dollar value, but you could use game data to show the court how long it takes to earn one. As secondlife etc have proven, people will dump huge loads of money into their virtual reality of choice. All it takes is for a millionaire to buy his way through eve and then lose a signifigant portion of his 'investment'. Better believe it'll raise awareness. Korea, China and Japan already have bodies for dealing with MMO related issues. All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. You are wrong on this one. First, even in the US where the law is contract based, EULA are not law. EULA HAS to be legal in every manner, in every country where the service/product is provided. Granted that most(99,999% in fact) of software/services sellers are putting illegal clauses in their EULA(there is at elast one or two in EVE's regarding the law of my country, where CCP officially sell EVE:D), but it's not a reason to think they are right to do it. Someday, they will start to have trouble(it only takes one or two rullings in any counrty against them and they will all begin to abide, like most phone providers did, or other companies, even if they will still try to put illegal clauses in it. That being said, if you agreed to an EULA and there is no illegal clause, you are the only one to blame if something happens. If there is an illegal clause, it's another matter, the main one is "have you enough money, time and dedication to bring it to court knowing it'll take months/years before you get what you want?". ------------------------------------------------ "Heaven is for the Dead Hell is for the Living" Harrisson *Flowerchild* AndromFde
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.03.24 18:23:00 - [35] Originally by: hango Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango Best. One. Ever. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Denrace Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.24 18:30:00 - [36] Edited by: Denrace on 24/03/2007 18:29:05 3 words: Join. The. Club. Ive lost loads of ships to bugs and glitches, half of which are known issues and had other players notice the glitch also. Ive got some back, and some Ive had no response to. At the end of the day, the GM's are (hopefully) doing the best job they can against a continually growing pile of petitions. Like the poster a few above me mentions, just be nice and explain everything from a neutral point of view. Den ________________________________________ Holder of 21 Hobo Points. See my bio for info
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2007.03.24 18:42:00 - [37] I've had good luck with the petitions I've had to file. Haven't petitioned anything bigger than a cruiser. But I know the limitations of the system. I simply refuse to fly T2 drones because I know they WILL be lost. I can cope with losing a wing of Ogres. I CANNOT cope with losing a wing of T2 anything. Petitions for lags and bugs have also went well. Mission screwups that would have cost me faction standings were also corrected so I have no complaints. Ain't nothing more annoying than beating a mission and finding out the mcguffin you're supposed to return never spawned.
Kinjeta n'Tari	Posted - 2007.03.24 18:57:00 - [38] I'm on day 6 of waiting for my petition to be answered regarding recovery of my account :( i feel yas
Kandazar Darkheart	Posted - 2007.03.25 00:05:00 - [39] The first one I could understand, Some one stole a corp can was flashing red, but appenently after i finally lock him up and fired the flag dropped then was concorded. I can see that as a coincidence, even though I had 5 corp mates see it happen. The second one I had Just left one corp to join another..the corp I was originally in was apart of the privateer aliance, meaning? lotsa war targets. So knowing this I decided to log off after I joined up with the new corp because, i noticed someone in the station on the guest list was still showing up as a WT (red star). When I logged back on I undocked and had yet another WT in front of the station. Since i did a total relog, I thought that the system would of cleared so it was a viable WT. Well and you guessed it Being a WT i did what any other would do I fired on it and destroy the target. Then Station guns started firing on me and concord warped in to take out my abaddon (with 2 power rigs and cap charge rig) so after i was put into a pod. I took screen shost of still more people showing up as war targets, Both outside the station, and inside the station on the guest list of the same people. The thing that got me was the respose was "Well our logs do not show a glitch so we are unable to reimburse you ship." Almost exactly as the first time. Is that the company line or something?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 00:44:00 - [40] I've only ever had 3 or 4 petitions, and all were answered within 2 or 3 days. 2 were for ship reimbursement, and were both successful. 1 was for a particularly troublesome macro(usually I don't bother, but this was was being really disruptive) and I got the usual macro-report reply, and the other was a POS problem one, and it all worked out ok at the end. So I'd say I was pretty happy with it. 90 / 100 maybe; room for improvement --------
Raketefrau Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:40:00 - [41] Edited by: Raketefrau on 25/03/2007 01:38:28 Originally by: Too Ducky All I can say is "Wrong". If its in the Eula, you have no chance of court action. People should pay attention to the EUla if they want to invest that much Isk in GTC's, and accept the risk. If they don't like the risk, then they should not invest. simple. A EULA is not really legally binding until tested in a court of law. They could put "your life is forfeit" into the EULA, and you would still play the game, that doesn't mean they can come to your house and knife you. EULAs can state all kinds of illegal things, but it doesn't mean they're all binding. (Patch, how the hell are we always drawn to the same threads?) Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Valorem ([email protected])
Asimov Andies Gallente Red Blade Industries	Posted - 2007.03.25 01:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Kandazar Darkheart I going have no choice but to report to the BBB. Isn't that only an american institute. Last i checked it wasn't in England on my last visit? -=#=- Angry beer bottles make Kaemonn a sad panda NO It's Been Touched
AirWalker Amarr Galactic Response Team	Posted - 2007.03.25 02:20:00 - [43] Originally by: Kandazar Darkheart Very VERY unhappy, this is the second ship I've lost because of a Game glitch. This time I lost a ship worth over 300 million. I had Screen shots as proof of the glitch and was referred to the bug report department. On top of that I had witnesses for the first incident and they wouldnt even listen to them. If this is the competency of you Gm staff then I hope your bug reporting team does better. If thats not the case, I going have no choice but to report to the BBB. every bit of proof there isn't useful to any gm for replacing your ship... screenshot: easily doctored witnesses: i could 500 people to say something happened doesn't mean its true and the bbb can't do jack all....its a private company that just provides feedback on other companies and won't get your problem solved at all nor help anyone else
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 02:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Raketefrau A EULA is not really legally binding until tested in a court of law. They could put "your life is forfeit" into the EULA, and you would still play the game, that doesn't mean they can come to your house and knife you. EULAs can state all kinds of illegal things, but it doesn't mean they're all binding. (Patch, how the hell are we always drawn to the same threads?) I am in ALL THREADS, you just happen to pop into some of them --------
The Socialworker Minmatar The Socialworkers	Posted - 2007.03.25 02:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Ishara Da'Ahn Sorry,I just can't resist...... 1 word missing Originally by: hango Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango Drunk?
Kandazar Darkheart	Posted - 2007.03.27 05:20:00 - [46] After reading some of these post, and looking back on my actions, I feel I owe a public formal apology. I acted on heated thoughts and I am sorry. You are right it is just a game and I lost sight of that.
Revolution Rising Minmatar Venture Research and Resources	Posted - 2007.03.27 05:27:00 - [47] Hold on, there's customer support? RR CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage
Arialla	Posted - 2007.03.27 05:52:00 - [48] Edited by: Arialla on 27/03/2007 05:49:07 Originally by: Xaroth Brook this one vid shall explain many things: http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=308 (not 100% suitable for work environments......) Read the user agreement! That link made my virus scanner crap its pants. I recommend you don't click it. Actually, I recommend a mod should remove it. -- Arialla Originally by: Robocop Scammer: You probably don't think I'm a very nice guy, do ya? Murphy: Buddy, I think you're slime.
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2007.03.27 06:41:00 - [49] Originally by: Cougem 1. So what if CCP cover their asses in th EULA? That doesn't mean it's right. ... 2. ...but to reply in such a horrible manner and imply it's fine because it's in the EULA is just crap. It's also in the EULA that CCP can cut you off if they want to, but nobody would pretend that's OK.... 3. Look at the massive uproar about them cutting off kugutsmen, even though their reasons (well 1 of them) was well within the EULA. Sorry, I bring this old post right to the front because I think a lot of it has been largely overlooked for it's complete incorrectness. Ref numbers, 1. It's more than right, it's ethical too. A EULA is a contract, nothing more, nothing less. EVERYTHING is in plain. If a contract states that a company has the right to do whatever they like to the service they're providing to you, whether it adversely affects you or not, then once you agree they can do that. It's not right or wrong for a company to do what their contract states, it's ignorant for you not to realise that. 2. Look at most of point 1. People get angry and complain because the lifestyle they enjoyed is ruined, yet are, once again, ignorant that that was always something which could happen. I'm sorry, but I'd refuse to do business with anybody if any form of agreement which stated what I was allowed to do could be completely ignored. 3. Of course there was massive uproar. People who benefited saw this as a bad thing, obviously, while people who were (and I know I'm laboring a point) ignorant. CCP was indeed well within the EULA, so there's absolutely nothing to go into uproar about. It's ignorance which creates a false illusion that you have any rights within such agreements, when in fact they are privilidges which can be taken away at any time, for any reason. So my point? Ignorance,, everybody posesses it on these forums, heck, even I'd be a bit surly if they suddenly cut me off for no reason,, but I know it's within their right to. Also, any reference to you in these quotes is just an abstract reference, not a reference to the person i quoted.
Maam	Posted - 2007.03.27 07:07:00 - [50] Originally by: Xtro 2 Please refrain from posting if you have something to contribute. Thank you. -Hango Well that won't have much of an effect on most threads here then!

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