.CCP Unifex The releases throughout 2012 will be an extension of the type of release we had with Crucible with the addition of a theme to help us scope and tie the work into a really compelling and coherent package. The first theme is going to be War and everyone is getting very excited about it.

IF this is about war declarations and the mechanics involved and if it involves station games and such, here are some of the things I would do in response.

Unless I get in a PVP ship and a fleet then go out looking for PVP, my objective is to deny them a kill, I don't care about the wrecks, the ore or anything else as long as I know they are frustrated and bored, I am happy.
If they take away the ability to dock or find a way to force me to depart from the station, I will simply play an alternative character, account or game.
I would even log a trial account on my other machine or hire a newbie to hang around and destroy my ship rather than let them have the kill. Simply offline all module and be gone before they could finish warping in.

I D-scan frequently, I put down two safe points to have on approach for warp, et cetera.

Usually, I dock up, go semi-AFK, doing things on my other screen, say some stuff in Local to taunt them and waste as much of their time as possible.
I don't call out for help, I don't escalate it, I don't give them the satisfaction of anything they may want.

Usually, I dock up, go semi-AFK, doing things on my other screen, say some stuff in Local to taunt them and waste as much of their time as possible.
I don't call out for help, I don't escalate it, I don't give them the satisfaction of anything they may want.

Yeah that is standard operating procedure for a war dec, be hard changing them much if people refuse to be a part of them when they happen.

Most likely CCP will do a bit of (rude place) squeezing to make us hi seccers want to be war decced or glad we were able to recieve the privilege of being war decced.

Like you said about hiding in station, CCP increased PI taxes so you have to use pocos and fight for them, now they read what you posted and make you pay station taxes while being in one during a war dec. Course could not log the whole week, but would be tough to deal with anyhow. They added taxes to npc corp to make up for evading war decs, who knows what else they could do.

If they left me logged in as an NPC, I would jump clone and liquidate my assets or self destruct my pod. Heck, I would even just delete my character and leave the game if their measures were extreme enough. Just so long as I gave them a nice big F.U. in the process.

It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

I'm sorry I just...

You just don't grasp how utterly supreme victory that is. How can you think that you have bestowed any kind of F.U. to them in the process of doing something like that? Maybe it's crack?

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They seem to be altering your behavior nicely though. Their failing is a lack of patience, and it results in your satisfaction. If they had more, your tactics would lead to them changing your pattern of behavior indefinitely. That in itself would be achieving a goal, if said goal was more then just padding a killboard.


Gawd, I hope they make wardecs more complex so stuff like that actually matters.

[quote=Fiori 161]

CCP wouldn't like losing more customers.

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But none of this really matters, because brats who wardec do not have such patience. BRB I need food.

It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

One grain of sand, one snow flake, one straw, they can start an avalanche or break a camel's back. I disseminate information on the various techniques in game to as many care bears as possible just to help them achieve the same objective if they wish.



Recent example is where CCP took away jumps information for worm holes but they didn't take away kills or NPC info. Now the hunters have the activity to know that the system is being ratted, yet the people living there don't know when they are gone.

It is also healthy for me to get stopped. I go for a walk, get on the spinner, chat to some friends, read a book, all the while knowing that they didn't get their kill and that is my satisfaction.

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If it blows your skirt up have a party, but I don't think I will ever understand the fear. As much as people insist on pretending otherwise, hiding and denying them kills is never going to be as satisfying as shooting them back in the face. I think I am done here, because this is obviously a troll post in order to get a rise out of people.

My thoughts on wars...
...

I agree with half of your points. The war dec shields are great, gives breathing room to train newbies, take them on roams, let miners build up some ISK and so forth instead of letting every brat on the block kick your sand castle apart.

Edit:
I see High Sec as an incubator, not just for new players but new corps and alliances too. Make it 100% safe for all that it matters. Mostly, all I see are those kids that want the easy kill there. Low, null and worm hole space should be where the real PVP occurs.

Mandatory movement of players in starter corps into their own (self named) war-decable corporation after they reach 3 months of age. Removal of other NPC player corporations, players join new corps directly from their old one. If the CEO boots them they get moved back into their own 1-man self-named corp. No player should be able to evade PvP for any substantial amount of time without expending actual effort.

IMHO, fukking other players against their will should imply a severe risk of being fukked by the rules.

It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

Mandatory movement of players in starter corps into their own (self named) war-decable corporation after they reach 3 months of age. Removal of other NPC player corporations, players join new corps directly from their old one. If the CEO boots them they get moved back into their own 1-man self-named corp. No player should be able to evade PvP for any substantial amount of time without expending actual effort.

You agree to PvP when you log in, hell, you agreed to PvP when you registered your account.

fucking other players against their will is EVE's unique selling point.

IF this is about war declarations and the mechanics involved and if it involves station games and such, here are some of the things I would do in response.

[i]Unless I ... I am happy.
... I will ....
I ...
I ...

Usually, I ...
I ..., I ..., I .....

If it blows your skirt up have a party, but I don't think I will ever understand the fear. As much as people insist on pretending otherwise, hiding and denying them kills is never going to be as satisfying as shooting them back in the face.

If CCP were to open a PVE server it would have 10x the subscriptions of TQ in a month. But they just wanna be vikings too much. =/

If they take away the ability to dock or find a way to force me to depart from the station, I will simply play an alternative character, account or game.

If CCP were to open a PVE server it would have 10x the subscriptions of TQ in a month. But they just wanna be vikings too much. =/

CCP have stated that they don't like people sitting in hi-sec. ..

I see someone parked outside a station, wasting time, trash-talking local...Waiting...talking...waiting

I see another person parked in station. Netflix on in another window. Sipping a coke. Giggling. Taking bets with corpmates on how long the numbskull sits out there and waits.

The winner here is obvious.

PS: What is this fear thing you speak of?

War........
kinda vage?

Haha. you really believe that? A PVE server would prob have some initial success but then quickly die out of pure boredom.

Why is OP even playing this game? Seriously. There are many, many better games for all that PVE rubbish. EVE is a PVP game and I hope CCP pay you no attention.


At best PVE is to introduce newbies to the combat mechanics of the game, or to give them ISK for the first few months of play. Unless you count low-sec or null sec PVE which can be worthwhile for older players as well.


When I used to dec high sec corps it was almost entirely to get that kind of response from you, or ISK. Please when you do eventually quit can you reward your victor with a ragey eve mail telling him eve has one less carebear.




I hope the 'War' CCP are referring to is faction warfare which is desperately in need of some attention.

War dec changes I would like to see:

Dec shield nerf

Corp hopping nerf

Possible increase in dec fees, but less exponential increase with more decs

Unless I get in a PVP ship and a fleet then go out looking for PVP, my objective is to deny them a kill...
Usually, I dock up, go semi-AFK, doing things on my other screen, say some stuff in Local to taunt them and waste as much of their time as possible.
I don't call out for help, I don't escalate it, I don't give them the satisfaction of anything they may want.

If they take away the ability to dock or find a way to force me to depart from the station, I will simply play an alternative character, account or game.

The war dec shields are great

I see High Sec as an incubator, not just for new players but new corps and alliances too. Make it 100% safe for all that it matters. Mostly, all I see are those kids that want the easy kill there. Low, null and worm hole space should be where the real PVP occurs.

If CCP were to open a PVE server it would have 10x the subscriptions of TQ in a month. But they just wanna be vikings too much. =/

What's the end-game for PVE?

It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

I forsee a potentially larger number of cancelled subscriptions in the near future, far more than with Incarna, if what is being posted here is even only just half-true.

Fix lowsec.
Fix Nullsec.
Fix Factional Warfare.
Fix War Declaration processes.
Fix whatever else needs proper fixing.

Stop phucking around with Hisec, you're killing the goose that lays the golden eggs and sadly, CCP knows this.

shooting red crosses at overview.. oh wait thats actually end game for any "combat"

The endgame for most PVP is territory control, reputation, or just a vague sense or superiority.

I'm betting two years at the longest, and most would be gone in 6-12 months.

At best PVE is to introduce newbies to the combat mechanics of the game, or to give them ISK for the first few months of play.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but CCP really does not care what one individual does in order to EMO rage their way out of PVP in a PVP based universe.

Some ideas I have for making PVP more common without actually forcing it on anyone:

Give NPC corps more drawbacks, such as the inability to dock in stations owned by rival corps, and "tariffs" that are significantly higher taxes charged for operating in empires other than their corp's. Also restrict their access to other corps' agents and occasionally change corp standings so that they might lose access to agents from time to time due to corporate diplomacy. The idea is that if you're going to work for a corp that isn't player controlled, you're subject to the whims of NPC politics.

What a singel player does no, but again you miss the point, that maybe 75% of all custumers are PvE highsecers.

If CCP start to give a **** about our will ... we leave.
If we can't play OUR SANDBOX ... why should we play at all?

We simply refuse the attamps of wannabe PvPler to FORCE us into PvP ... this braindead station/gate camping or hot-blobbing stupidity where you AFK 12 hours for 5 seconds of actions.
-> MAJOR WAST OF TIME !

Question is do those people really enjoy doing solo missions in high sec. Do they wait to be able to log so they can have the fun of doing lvl IVs ? Or are they afraid of unknown ?

Unless I get in a PVP ship and a fleet then go out looking for PVP, my objective is to deny them a kill, I don't care about the wrecks, the ore or anything else as long as I know they are frustrated and bored, I am happy.
If they take away the ability to dock or find a way to force me to depart from the station, I will simply play an alternative character, account or game.

Some realy enjoy to do solo missions or mine or probe complex after a hard day. They just want to relax. -> Legitim Sandbox !

Some do incursions with friends or as long as they have low SP fly maybe L4 missions with BC and suport (yes, it happens) -> Legitim Sandbox !

Some just know, that wardacs are just made by pur PvP chars with neutral remot rep and scout chars. They tryed the war till they notice "this suckers don't want fair fights, they just want to grief" and decided "NO THX KKBYE" -> legit point !


As long as this meta game of neutral RR and scout fleets is posible there is simply NO RESON to fight!

Even less, when you as mining & producer TRY to fight back, WAST your SP for some fight skills ... and just notice "****, I need min 4 acc. 1 beit, 2 RR, 1 scout". This is the point where most say: "never again this wannabe e-peen bullshit!". And it's their legit to exclude it from THEIR SANDBOX !

You (common wannabe grief "PvPler"-¦) allways try to argue with "this is my Sandbox" ... if you claim this -> you MUST except other peoples Sandbox too!

Question is do those people really enjoy doing solo missions in high sec. Do they wait to be able to log so they can have the fun of doing lvl IVs ? Or are they afraid of unknown ? And chose safer version because its rewarding and they will always win. In other engagement they will die, they will lose, and the will lose a lot, that is why they dont try.
Its basic human nature, you wont pursuit an goal, if that means you gonna suffer again and again. Well unless you are masochist.

At least thats how i see it.
And i am indeed mission runner atm. And when i engage in PvP i ussualy lose, well i always lost, because other are better at what they are doing.

Many do not understand why some players so strongly avoid PvP combat. The best reason I have found is they do not get The Rush:

To use one quote : about neut RR
Crying because your enemy is superior in any way to you is really pathetic. Make friends contact some "alliances" which deals with such thing, they will help if you provide people and an attitude to fight back.

Yes this would make high sec Happy Rainbow Land. But maybe for the overall health of EVE Online, this would be a good thing.

If Pvp players didn't take part in some form of pve they would soon be flying rookie ships to pvp in as they would eventually be out of money, you cannot support your pvp without Pve, mining or mission running.

What a singel player does no, but again you miss the point, that maybe 75% of all custumers are PvE highsecers.

If CCP start to give a **** about our will ... we leave.
If we can't play OUR SANDBOX ... why should we play at all?

When you sell entertainment, your target audience sets the limit of your growth.

It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

Well of course you have that option. However adding smallholding targets, and preventing corps from being able to dodge the entire wardec mechanic are good for gameplay.

Say pvp corp x declares war on larger corp y. Corp x has no carebaring operations or holdings and docks up whenever a sufficient hostile fleet shows up. Corp y then learns that corp x has association with carebare corp z, and that corp z has a couple research towers in highsec, mission runners, etc or (insert future small holdings here). So in retaliation, corp y declares war on corp z. Corp Z should not be immune to the wardec by simply switching alliance shells.

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I know quite a few "pirates" And they are really great people, they know how to PvP with risk but they also do wardec "industrial" corporation for an extortion pay. ..

Kept coming back with smaller and smaller offers and we kept laughing about it. It was just that they must have thought they were hot stuff, while most of us hardly knew they existed.

Then why is it an issue?

O.o

Guess which is most affected and we would like to keep around, for social reasons and in case they do become something more?

...by the time these extortion came through, we had lost all the newbs and miners that were going to go. There is no way we would pay for it anyway. Once you give into that sort of thing, you have a queue lining up around the block with their hands out. No, I would rather spite them and flame out that let them be parasites.

Mandatory movement of players in starter corps into their own (self named) war-decable corporation after they reach 3 months of age. Removal of other NPC player corporations, players join new corps directly from their old one. If the CEO boots them they get moved back into their own 1-man self-named corp. No player should be able to evade PvP for any substantial amount of time without expending actual effort.

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As for why everyone left, tbqh, I'm guessing it's because you older guys didn't give the newbs some guidance... just sayin...

Edit to add: If you guys (the core group) had any isk at all, why not set some traps? Don't fight on gates, use the belts, sun, planets or moons... get the newbs in rifters/kestrels/ecm frigs and scram the jerks.....
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I would only trust the pirate corp "The Bastards" with a ransom, tbqh. They honor ransom's, when they offer them, it's one of their principles....

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What the posters promote as "The Rush" and the great feeling of true fights is more accurately described as running babies over with tanks.
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Is homeworld republic still losing POS towers to people they declared war on "for practice" and are you still being reprimanded by your CEO for getting your corp in trouble with people who can and will kick the snot out of you?

lol....what? So your grand idea is to tax NPC corp players more, while also screwing with their corp standings (that probably took weeks to raise) AND limit what agents they can run missions for?

Hate to break it to you, but the only PVP these grand ideas will lead to is Carebears vs. CCP, with Unsubscription and Angry Forum Posts as ammo.

Breaths into a paper bag

You (common wannabe grief "PvPler"-¦) allways try to argue with "this is my Sandbox" ... if you claim this -> you MUST except other peoples Sandbox too!

Your thread is hurting my brain. .

My current corp has been wardec'd by this group of 'pirates' called renegade syndicate. They, are stat padders, just look at their KB. The will fight our lower skilled members, but they run from my PVE proteus. They run. From a PVE ship that could very easily be webbed, neuted, and popped. I already filed a petition for griefing but ccp basically said 'stfu and deal with it noob'. It isn't fun, it isn't fair. Why do they do it? They are just making people unsubscribe, which has indeed happened in my corp because of these idiots.

are people seriously talking about shooting carebears in hisec as though it's PVP?

well PvP is essentially everything. If it provides "interaction" with other players, which is indeed everything..
Even if you mine your own ore, reprocess it by yourself, buy BPO from NPC, and built ships and modules all by yourself its interaction with other players in sense you deny them "profit".

However is not collecting stamps an hobby..

So yes shooting carebears is PvP too.

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However is not collecting stamps an hobby..

Taking a ship to find a nice target that just sits there while you fire at it ...

Am I describing mining or ganking?

well PvP is essentially everything

Killing argument without roots.

One shots are NO PvP as it does not matter if there is a player in the target ship or not. You can shot a can and it has the same effect.

Shoting unarmed targets is NO PvP as you can shot a Tritanium rock and it would have the same effect.

PvP can just happen, when BOTH sides can ACT and REACT.

Anything else is a lie and baby pullshit from noobs. Learn to fight real targets loser.

A rock can't use dscan can it and it can't for sure warp away when it sense danger.

I am not so sure. Based on what I have seen in other MMOs, if there was a "PVe" server that had only one difference:


"not being able to target other players at all except in designated PVP zones"

(or something like that)


... it would have a lot of players. Not going to say if that's better, or why, or whatever. Just based on the pattern I have seen.

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Although I am not much of a combat pilot/fighter/pirate/what-have-you and am, in fact, a 'carebear', I still would not prefer a PVE server, I don't know, its just, everything about EVE is what makes it EVE, the PVP, the market play, the miners, the griefers, without any of these pieces, the puzzle would be incomplete

It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

... I self-destruct.
Rather take the loss financially than give them the 'satisfaction'
......or 'mental orgasm' or whatever the Hell chemical it releases........

I think that we can safely assume that CCP was NOT referring to anything in high sec when they said that the focus of the next expansion is going to be war.

Okay, what premises are you basing your assumption on?

I'm gonna assume "hisec war is crap" and "Sov War is what they use to promote EVE" ?

Corp dodging wardecs is now a legitimate tactic. That seems like a poor forerunner to a highsec war patch.

So as not to start another thread:

Why isn't there people using instant lock ships to pod kill reds as they come in from low and null sec?

fucking other players against their will is EVE's unique selling point.

I agree with half of your points. The war dec shields are great, gives breathing room to train newbies, take them on roams, let miners build up some ISK and so forth instead of letting every brat on the block kick your sand castle apart.

Edit:
I see High Sec as an incubator, not just for new players but new corps and alliances too. Make it 100% safe for all that it matters. Mostly, all I see are those kids that want the easy kill there. Low, null and worm hole space should be where the real PVP occurs.