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Sonlatur
Minmatar
Matari Raiders
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Posted - 2007.03.25 21:03:00 -
[31]
Once the lottery is over datacore prices will crash hard. Then invention will become cheap.
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Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.03.25 21:07:00 -
[32]
i was going to post the answer but thought better of it. 
Anyway, invention in one way at least is more profitable than T2 BPO. i'll let you guess though as to what
(p.s. speaking from experience, but didn't read the rest of the post)
Khaldari
Research Services
BPO Shop
KPA Recruiting! |
Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.25 21:13:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Sonlatur
Once the lottery is over datacore prices will crash hard. Then invention will become cheap.
qft. whilst the lottery is still running there will be players hoarding their RP till exery BP has dropped from their feild. once every bpo has dropped then datacores wil plummet.
in a second note the more people who buy datacores the less RP there is in the lottery and ergo more chance of the BPO drop.
my main personal goal with invention was and still is to build some much used and overpriced items for personal and corp use @ relatiuvly low cost. really really would love ship interfaces to drop more and the price to crash on those.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.03.25 21:15:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 25/03/2007 17:24:13
However it is put, removing t2 bpo's will reduce supply.
Only temporarily while invention picks up.
Quote:
Reduced supply = Higher costs. Invented BPC's will always have to cost more to produce than a "free" bpo.
Yes, tech 2 production with invention will always be more expensive than with BPOs, but that doesn't necessarily mean that selling prices won't drop thanks to invention. It just means tech 2 production will be a lot less profitable.
Right now what keeps tech 2 prices inflated is the lack of competition, not the production costs. Invention will increase competition on the tech 2 market making it more like the regular market. There will be more tech 2 items at lower prices, and a lot less profit to be had for tech 2 producers.
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"If you ever need anything, please don't
Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.03.25 21:18:00 -
[35]
I just remembered another thing my corp has found really makes invention viable, but again not gonna tell you
Khaldari
Research Services
BPO Shop
KPA Recruiting! |
Macmuelli
Gallente
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.03.25 21:21:00 -
[36]
Invention = chance for my self without having a T II BPO building stuff.
A positive Job = cheaper then the actual market price.
Whats a human without dreams?.....
DEATH
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:06:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/03/2007 22:11:00
If it was a no-brainer to make a lot if isk with invention, everyone would do it. I don't invest effort now to end with another tech-1 like market in the future, where there are thousands of producers.
So give it a rest. It will take some time, until the prices e.g. for datacores are stable.
Currently they are not, because invention has just started, some people buy datacubes for their huge RP stock now and throw them on the market, while others are still hoping for BPOs.
Once there are no BPOs given out anymore, people will go into the research fields, where they get the best profit from selling datacubes, which makes those datacubes go down in price, while others go up.
We are far away from seeing the real prices yet. Some might go up, others down. With more invention, the profits for tech-1 BPC production and moon-mining and reactions will also go up.
Imho it will take months, until we see, which effect invention has on the market and economy.
*edit* and with no no-brainer I mean that it surely will require some thinking and calculation to decide, which decryptor and which named tech-1 item you use for maximum profit.
Just the best of both might lead to less profit after all, because those items are expensive, too.
___________
Muuuhhh !!! |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:13:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 25/03/2007 17:24:13
However it is put, removing t2 bpo's will reduce supply.
Only temporarily while invention picks up.
Intention is too finicky(in a Chance sense) and skill intensive to ever everbe able to supply the entirety of the playerbase on it's own at a level comparable to now.
What you'd see is an across the board rise in prices on T2 goods because nobody would bother inventing the lesser stuff (ammo, etc).
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Dorfar Kar'leigh
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:19:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Soulita
Invention is generally a good idea.
It will rise to its full potential once t2 BPOs have been converted into limited run BPCs.
And please no whiners now. CCP keeps on changing a lot of things for game balance and improvement. The change of t2 BPOs into t2 BPCs has to come and I am certain will come.
So, you're waiting for CCP to turn existing BPO's into BPC's?
How would you like it if you get a message from CCP that your Apocalypse Navy Issue have been turned into a limited use copy and will automatically selfdestruct after 99 more undockings? It's basically the same, you bought the ship expecting to keep and use it until you sell it, and so did the T2 bpo owners. |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:19:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/03/2007 22:21:54
Originally by: Gamer4liff
What you'd see is an across the board rise in prices on T2 goods because nobody would bother inventing the lesser stuff (ammo, etc).
Lesser stuff uses less datacores, generates more runs, produces faster, uses cheaper faster producable bpcs, has higher chance for success, requires less skills, no expensive decryptors due to that etc.
And there is enough ammo on the market already. Most ammo bpos are already crap. My alt has actually a better one and I hope it stays that way. 
___________
Muuuhhh !!! |
AvatarADV
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:25:00 -
[41]
The biggest advantage in invention is that you're not locked down to producing a single item. If inventing hulks is profitable today, I can invent a hulk. If inventing cap rechargers is profitable tomorrow, I can invent cap rechargers. If I want an Astarte and nobody in my region has one for sale, I can just bang one out.
There's still limiting factors - BPC availability, datacore price, startup cost involved in the data interface, decryptor availability - but these are things that are responsive to markets. If the price of any of those things rises, more people can be induced to provide those services to match the demand, and anyone -can- do any of those things given the proper training. With T2 BPOs, once all the BPOs out there are crunching away at full speed, it just isn't possible for the supply to be further increased.
So in the end, there's much less of an "elitism" issue; anyone, theoretically, can play.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:26:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 25/03/2007 22:22:30
Originally by: Plutoinum
Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/03/2007 22:16:20
Originally by: Gamer4liff
What you'd see is an across the board rise in prices on T2 goods because nobody would bother inventing the lesser stuff (ammo, etc).
Lesser stuff generates more runs, produces faster, uses cheaper faster producable bpcs, has higher chance for success, requires less skills, no expensive decryptors due to that etc.
And there is enough ammo on the market already. Most ammo bpos are already crap. My alt has actually a better one and I hope it stays that way.
Well yeah but I daresay if you're going to be inventing for the isk you find the module with the highest profit, and that is nowhere near the realm of ammo bpos.
So yeah for every 1 person inventing spike M or some such lesser T2, there will be 50 people inventing cap recharger 2's and damage control 2's.
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AirWalker
Amarr
Galactic Response Team
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
I totally agree. Invention is a waste of time. Theres no way it can compete with T2 BPO's. I'm guessing the Devs have T2 BPO's and don't want the competition. Invention was an attempt to placate the rest of us.
and the CIA shot JFK big foot exists and aliens walk among us 
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Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:34:00 -
[44]
I just realized:
If there are no T2 BPO's, there is an outside chance that one day everyone's invention jobs will all fail. It is 1/a very large number chance, but would be hillarious if it actually happened
Khaldari
Research Services
BPO Shop
KPA Recruiting! |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:45:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Soulita
Invention is generally a good idea.
It will rise to its full potential once t2 BPOs have been converted into limited run BPCs.
And please no whiners now. CCP keeps on changing a lot of things for game balance and improvement. The change of t2 BPOs into t2 BPCs has to come and I am certain will come.
I really hope it will not come as it is a bad idea.
You think someone will invent ammunitions?
the prices for invention are decreasing, the datacores are still high priced, the reduction in RP required to get them is only some day old, (from 500 to 50 RP as base cost) and the effect is not jet felt.
To sse the true wffwct of invention we need to wait till the lottery end and the prices of the datacore stabilize.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:46:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/03/2007 22:43:21
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 25/03/2007 22:22:30
Originally by: Plutoinum
Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/03/2007 22:16:20
Originally by: Gamer4liff
What you'd see is an across the board rise in prices on T2 goods because nobody would bother inventing the lesser stuff (ammo, etc).
Lesser stuff generates more runs, produces faster, uses cheaper faster producable bpcs, has higher chance for success, requires less skills, no expensive decryptors due to that etc.
And there is enough ammo on the market already. Most ammo bpos are already crap. My alt has actually a better one and I hope it stays that way.
Well yeah but I daresay if you're going to be inventing for the isk you find the module with the highest profit, and that is nowhere near the realm of ammo bpos.
So yeah for every 1 person inventing spike M or some such lesser T2, there will be 50 people inventing cap recharger 2's and damage control 2's.
Ok, but the profit margin for those items will drop too. If many people invent it might even drop so much that it's only worthful to invent stuff with max skills and a good supply chain.
My hope is that this doesn't happen too fast and that most people give up earlier tbh, because invention is too much hassle.
___________
Muuuhhh !!! |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.03.25 22:55:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 25/03/2007 22:54:16
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 25/03/2007 17:24:13
However it is put, removing t2 bpo's will reduce supply.
Only temporarily while invention picks up.
Quote:
Reduced supply = Higher costs. Invented BPC's will always have to cost more to produce than a "free" bpo.
Yes, tech 2 production with invention will always be more expensive than with BPOs, but that doesn't necessarily mean that selling prices won't drop thanks to invention. It just means tech 2 production will be a lot less profitable.
Right now what keeps tech 2 prices inflated is the lack of competition, not the production costs. Invention will increase competition on the tech 2 market making it more like the regular market. There will be more tech 2 items at lower prices, and a lot less profit to be had for tech 2 producers.
My view on t2 is that all t2 will one day become cheap and baseline. Given the hassel of invention, My estimate is that all t2 will one day sell at 2x baseprice.
In other words, to pave the way for t3, there need to be a massive supply of t2. The day the lotter is over, thats when everybody will cash in their RP's and the datacore market will crash in price. In addition, CCP have already said invention was pre-nerfed and that they are drasticly upping the drop rate of EVERYTHING to do with invention, even increasing the datacore rate and decreasing the amount of RP required.
Remember Miner II's? They used to sell at 40mil each. Now they sell at 70k each due to oversupply because of the sheer number of Miner II bpo's. If every miner II bpo was removed and if it was left to invention, I can actully see the price rise from 70k, can you? Thats why i am saying that removing existing t2 bpo's will raise prices as there is less supply. And when I say raise prices, I am not talking about today's prices, I am talking in a contex where invention is commonplace.
So for now, make your billions inventing t2 rigs and charge markups that not even t2 bpo owners could ever dream of!
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