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Azrial Toshiba	Posted - 2007.03.26 23:51:00 - [91] maybe they will consider fixing the war dec system as well?
Raziel	Posted - 2007.03.26 23:56:00 - [92] Originally by: Jane Vladmir When it comes down to it, way too many people are jealous, angry or scared of the Privateers and hate the fact they'd have to pay us, the bad guys for those feelings to go away, so they just want the Privateers banned/nerft for being super bad to them and their friends. or maybe we just dont like cheaters. you are WORSE than macrominers in my book. how does it feel to be hated by everyone everywhere you go? dont cry about geting flamed, you brought it on yourself, your the one who joined PA
Ristavel The Prancing Unicorn Club Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 00:01:00 - [93] To those who justify loot-stealing by neutral players with privateers griefing: Privateers are not griefers, War'ing everyone is neither an exploit nor is it unfair. Just because the majority cries, it doesn't make it unfair. PvP'ing should be rewarded in high-sec as it is in 0.0 neutral noobs in Probes and Kestrels scooping your victims loot just isn't fair. Everyone should be able to access the victims can, but if anyone who was not involved in the fight scoops the loot he should be penaltized with at least 15minutes of aggro and a non docking permission for 1-2minutes. That is what I think is fair.
kilja	Posted - 2007.03.27 00:25:00 - [94] Originally by: Ristavel Just because the majority cries, it doesn't make it unfair. That is what I think is fair. Just because a select few cries, it doesn't make it unfair who cares what you think? you are part of PA, therefore are not part of the community. your loots belong to me! c u ingame lolololololololol
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.27 09:55:00 - [95] Originally by: kilja Hi. I just want to say LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL to the op and all of PA. maybe thats what you get for abusing the war dec system? Your easy kills you get in jita = my easy loot. I'll follow your gangs around FOREVER, why? because the pay is good and there is no risk. best of all it makes you mad. c u cheaters ingame And here it is, from the horses mouth. It's a no risk profession, and it is used by the vocal few in this thread to grief (yes grief) the Privateers. The imbalance has shone through and it's time for CCP to take action. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.27 10:01:00 - [96] Edited by: The Slayer on 27/03/2007 09:58:34 Just to clarify my earlier point : I was not suggesting an alt for scooping loot. Just someone in your gang who is assigned the job of scooping loot. Y'know, small ship, MWD, that sorta thing. Or change your fitting. Look at me, im not in the "ROFL ROFL PA SUXXORS" camp. You should just adapt, same as anyone else in the game. If someone complains about lag and undocking issues I tell them to get out of Jita. You complain that people are stealing your loot and its too busy to scoop it before they do. So I tell YOU to get out of Jita :D Yes it has the most war targets for you. Also has the most lag and most neutral people. What do you want more, 20 fights with no loot or 5 fights with all the loot in your pocket? (no you cant have both)
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.27 10:10:00 - [97] Originally by: The Slayer Edited by: The Slayer on 27/03/2007 09:58:34 Just to clarify my earlier point : I was not suggesting an alt for scooping loot. Just someone in your gang who is assigned the job of scooping loot. Y'know, small ship, MWD, that sorta thing. Or change your fitting. Look at me, im not in the "ROFL ROFL PA SUXXORS" camp. You should just adapt, same as anyone else in the game. If someone complains about lag and undocking issues I tell them to get out of Jita. You complain that people are stealing your loot and its too busy to scoop it before they do. So I tell YOU to get out of Jita :D Yes it has the most war targets for you. Also has the most lag and most neutral people. What do you want more, 20 fights with no loot or 5 fights with all the loot in your pocket? (no you cant have both) Good point. I'm sure Privateers will adapt, as I will adapt. Doesn't hurt discussing the issue though, and it still don't adress the issue of loot thieving being a no-risk profession. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Grunanca	Posted - 2007.03.27 10:25:00 - [98] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Hi When I kill an NPC and someone steals from my loot he gets flagged, allowing me to get it back. When I kill a PC and someone steals from my loot he doesn't get flagged. PC's are harder to kill than NPC's. Why shouldn't the same rules apply? Also, allowing people to dock just as soon as they've stolen from MY WELL EARNED loot is not acceptable. I demand justice! As the player owns the loot.. If you kill him while he is in the middle of his buddies in high sec... He could be red to you through kill rights etc, then his buddies should have ANY right to kill you if you tried to cash in the loot.
SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 10:59:00 - [99] Quote: Look at me, im not in the "ROFL ROFL PA SUXXORS" camp. You should just adapt, same as anyone else in the game. If someone complains about lag and undocking issues I tell them to get out of Jita. You complain that people are stealing your loot and its too busy to scoop it before they do. So I tell YOU to get out of Jita :D Loot thiefing as it is is a non-risk profession, and as i understand the devs do not want win-win professions in Eve. Everything should have it's risk, so should loot thiefing. And i did some calculations earlyer and only 0.1% of our kills are in jita. Problem with us is that if there are multiple people around u'll always have people approaching our target and wait for it to pop and insta-get the loot. As for all the noobs saying we're abusing/exploiting/hacking the wardec system, the system whas ment for alliances/corps to allow fighting in highsec, and that is exactly what we're using it for. Ur calling us noobs but actually it's exactly the other way around, ur the one getting blown to pieces. The only people whining about us are the ones that are getting blown up. Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:08:00 - [100] Privateers abuse game mechanics in a way that makes life of most miserable, they say that others must adapt. Others find a way to abuse game mechanics to make privateers life miserable... and they don't want to adapt? ADAPT! Or leave privateers! If privateers had not becomen a huge annoyance (as in a too large group doing that) this would not be happening! If privateers were about 200 member alliance.. that could be found seldom around empire.. then this would not have developed. Its just fair that comunity finds a way to make you have less fun, since you foud a way to makeus have less fun! It takes me 4 times mroe to move in empire now than it took in the past.... 4 times more than I used to take without warp to zero! Minmatar and Caldari space are crowded of privateers. its obvious that people will follow you. Spread yourself and you will have much less hate from comunity and much less loot stealing. CCP wanted less people in noob corps , and make them move to real corps. But privateers caused a massive reflux to noob corps. There are some privateers that deserve respect.. some of them are seen in low sec, even 0.0 or they stay and fight when target comes with an equaly capable force. But the vast majority do not deserve this respect. They desearve to have all their stuff stolen form udner their nose If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:09:00 - [101] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 27/03/2007 11:09:54 Originally by: SFShootme Ontopic: Honestly, this is not a flagging issue, just make it where people on the killmail get the first 2 minutes rights of looting a wreck. Loot thiefing at the moment is a win-win, 0% risk situation. And as i've understood that is the last thing that the devs want to see in eve. Some of you privateers woult read and try to answer to Hamfast post? He explain the problem way better than me, but basically it is the same problem I tried to explain multiple times, and no Privaters or pro loot change player really replyed to: You are asking for a change in code of the ownerships rules not a relaitvely simple one like adding ownership to an item that hasn't it, but complex things as "limited time ownership", "duble ownership", ecc. You all know how bug prone is this kind of changes. And ownership is linked to a high number of items. So, unless you can argue very well why those changes have no risk of new ugly bugs, I am contrary. To reiterate, miners have asked for duble ownerships for a long time (so that stholen ore is recoverable without getting flagged), and the same forum warriors (hello Ki) have argued that it would be imbalancing, making it too easy for the miners, and so on. Now they are reversing the argument to get what they feel it is their property protected. You must chose a position, not change it when it is more convenient.
SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 11:25:00 - [102] Quote: You are asking for a change in code of the ownerships rules Make the first 30 second or 2 minutes or whatever time nessecairy after killing a target only lootable for the people on the killmail. Problem solved. And miners could use giant secures btw. --------- Tho shall give Life, for Life.
JourneymanDave devastation mining inc	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:21:00 - [103] Originally by: Ristavel Everyone should be able to access the victims can, but if anyone who was not involved in the fight scoops the loot he should be penaltized with at least 15minutes of aggro and a non docking permission for 1-2minutes. That is what I think is fair. As you know, the pilot that scoops the loot before you is flagged as KOS; to the victim of the kill. That's fair. Kill rights do not prevent a pilot from docking anywhere, and this case is not specialized enough to justify changing the current mechanics. Go ahead and ask for what you really want: You want the wreck ownership to be transferred to the killer, so that the KOS flag is to the killer. This isn't the way the game works now, and you want that changed to fit the gameplay that PA, and others to be fair, engage in.
JourneymanDave devastation mining inc	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:23:00 - [104] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: kilja Hi. I just want to say LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL to the op and all of PA. maybe thats what you get for abusing the war dec system? Your easy kills you get in jita = my easy loot. I'll follow your gangs around FOREVER, why? because the pay is good and there is no risk. best of all it makes you mad. c u cheaters ingame And here it is, from the horses mouth. It's a no risk profession, and it is used by the vocal few in this thread to grief (yes grief) the Privateers. The imbalance has shone through and it's time for CCP to take action. /Ki It was an incorrect statement, although it was very convenient for those trying to make that argument. Scooping loot is not a zero-risk actions, as it puts the pilot at risk to the victim and their corp. That's as it's intended, and as the game mechanics are currently implemented.
Viliny principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:44:00 - [105] oh is the new initiative to **** of privateers by loot stealing starting to have effect? :)
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:47:00 - [106] Originally by: JourneymanDave It was an incorrect statement, although it was very convenient for those trying to make that argument. Scooping loot is not a zero-risk action, as it puts the pilot at risk to the victim and their corp. That's as it's intended, and as the game mechanics are currently implemented. I don't believe it's incorrect at all. If you think about it, sure, theoretically the thief could be shot by the owner of the wreck, but in what situation would this occur? Let's paint a picture of when this happens: A fight has ended, and one side has won. That means there are noone left from the other side. They either popped or ran. Now, the winners remain to scoop the loot - the reward for their risk - and instead it is stolen from under their noses. The thief is now, in effect, protected by those he robbed of their reward from the owner of the wreck, as if the unlikely would occur, and the one who died would return, he would immediately engage/be engaged by those with whom he's at war who still remains at the spot. This all means, the thief gets away scott free, with no risk taken for potentially huge rewards. To argue that the thief is at risk of being shot by the owners of the wreck is demonstrating a clear ignorance for how combat works in EvE. I am NOT arguing that loot thieving should be disallowed, only that it should be made riskier and more balanced to the other professions in the game. As someone said above, clearly without thinking, miners want to be able to take back ore from an ore thief. In fact, the relationship between miner and ore thief is perfectly balanced since the introduction of can flagging. To allow the miner to take back what was stolen would disrupt that balance, making mining risk free. All I am after is some damn risk and accountability in this game, that is supposed to be all about risk and accountability. Finally, two things: 1. PA is not Privateers. Privateers alliance ticker is PRVTR! 2. This is NOT JUST ABOUT THE PRIVATEERS! If you have a grudge with them, make your own thread, or better yet, fight them in game. It's so pathetic to see all the bottom feeding losers that has been hit over the head too many times crawl out from the pit they're in everytime a privateer posts on these fora. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Jovienus 300 ANGRY SPARTANS	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:56:00 - [107] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Hi When I kill an NPC and someone steals from my loot he gets flagged, allowing me to get it back. When I kill a PC and someone steals from my loot he doesn't get flagged. PC's are harder to kill than NPC's. Why shouldn't the same rules apply? Also, allowing people to dock just as soon as they've stolen from MY WELL EARNED loot is not acceptable. I demand justice! LOL! Privateer Alliance and Justice, two things I thought I'd never see if a forum post. Mate.... 1. You kill someone, you can loot the stuff yourself. 2. You kill someone, the corpse can reclone and collect the loot themselves. 3. You kill someone, others can loot the stuff for themselves. Under no conditions is that loot offically owned by anyone but the original ship's owner. After all surely if makes sense to allow them a chance to recollect their VERY valuable equipment. And surely it makes sense that if you kill them and rob them you should be flagged for killing and looting. And surely if you DON'T own the loot since you haven't robbed it yet then the loot is still owned by the original ship owner, and on that basis can be robbed by ANYONE willing to get flagged as a thief to the owner. Makes sense to me. You don't own it till its in your cargo hold. The ownership of the loot is that of the original ship owners till then. If someone gets to it before you, then tough its finds keeper's rules. The system works fine.
Flitz Farseeker Gallente Eve guardians	Posted - 2007.03.27 12:59:00 - [108] Edited by: Flitz Farseeker on 27/03/2007 12:56:10 Originally by: JourneymanDave Scooping loot is not a zero-risk action, as it puts the pilot at risk to the victim and their corp. That's as it's intended, and as the game mechanics are currently implemented. I think that counts as 'check and mate'. I can also add that my two personal experiences of PVP with the Privateers have been 4 against 1 gatecamps, once in a cruiser and once in an industrial. It would appear that four T2 PVP ships against an unarmed indy counts as quite a challenge for the 'hardcore elite PVP' players in PA.
Jovienus 300 ANGRY SPARTANS	Posted - 2007.03.27 13:10:00 - [109] Just thought of a reason why setting anyone caught looting your "kill can" to red would be a VERY bad idea. Say you and a mate are in the same corp and you team up with say another corp to tag team some local PA gankers. :P Say they are two people in the same corp too, you both (4 ppl) fly to the engagement zone and beat the PA to the mat, 3 kills, 3 cans. Now say you have incoming hostiles, like 6 guys and you are in a rush to hoover up the loot, the moment one of the other corp's member loot a can belonging to you they will get flagged as hostile to you, your corp mate and your corp. That could make for some VERY interesting problems in Blob warfare with players looting nearby cans in fights. Imagine 20 vs 20 ppl blob fights and three players in another corp fighting with you suddenly go red... OOOPS! It wouldn't take much to just pod them by accident. Nice. Now even if you set it to alliance level, you're going to get alliance members joining to ninja looting then. The current system is the only thing that makes sense. When happens if the owner of the can returns after the battle is done and collects their loot, do they get flagged as a thief to the killer corp? What happens in the combat took place in lo-sec or 0.0 and they jump into empire with 20 killer corp ships there. Nice. Any other method would risk the chance of being heavily exploited and abused.
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.03.27 13:11:00 - [110] To PA: You say there is no risk for a third party looting your PVP kills. But where exactly is the risk in killing players undocking and with a blank screen in Jita 4-4? It is NOT your loot. It is the victim's loot. As long as the thief is flagged to the victim then all is fine. It is surreal to see players that feed their egoes from other players' miseries yet when they drink out of there own brewed*****tail of crap they cry on how bitter and nasty it tastes. I've seen it happen to Lofty, Ginger Magician, and now PA. And the weirdest part is at the end of the day they still won't get it.
Jane Vladmir Gallente The Prancing Unicorn Club Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 14:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Exlegion 1 To PA: You say there is no risk for a third party looting your PVP kills. 2 But where exactly is the risk in killing players undocking and with a blank screen in Jita 4-4? 3 It is NOT your loot. It is the victim's loot. As long as the thief is flagged to the victim then all is fine. 1. Yes, we do say that. 2. How the hell are we supposed to know they've got a black screen? Those happen once in a full moon when jita reaches 700+ and if petitioned you DO get reimbursed. And even though you do know the target has a black screen, why shouldn't we do the same as they do to us when we get the black screen? 3. How is everything fine when someone who didn't participate in the fight, didn't put anything up for risk and has a near 0% chance to get caught gets often loot worth 2-3 hours of npcing/mining? How is that fair to the NPCer/miner for example? PS. It's PRIVT not PA. PA was Phoenix Alliance but you probably don't remember them as you weren't in the game when they were around.
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:04:00 - [112] Edited by: Exlegion on 27/03/2007 15:03:03 It doesn't just happen once in a blue moon. Jita seems to be in a perma-state of lag. It takes a few seconds (sometimes minutes) to undock. And I'm not suggesting that only Piravateers use this tactic. I'm sure others do as well. But it still doesn't make it right. And I suspect those in your alliance camping Jita stations and claiming they don't know this is happening are being a bit dishonest. Now in reference to what you consider unfair, it is no more unfair than your alliance indiscriminately using the wardeccing system in place to PVP in an environment usually supposed to be safer than low/no sec. You are abusing a game machanic to your advantage. Now the "griefed" in turn, are now abusing another system to their advantage and against you. But I really can't feel sympathy for your plight because the griefed are now griefing the griefers. You BOTH are abusing game mechanics. The devs have it right. A war dec entitles you to aggress on your opponent without consequences in high sec. However, it is not a free pass to take what belongs to them. The victim drops it but it's still the victim's loot. Again, the fact that it's being abused is a different story, just as your alliance abusing the war-deccing system is a different story as well.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:18:00 - [113] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 27/03/2007 15:10:53 Edited by: Exlegion on 27/03/2007 15:03:03 It doesn't just happen once in a blue moon. Jita seems to be in a perma-state of lag. It takes a few seconds (sometimes minutes) to undock. And I'm not suggesting that only Privateers use this tactic. I'm sure others do as well. But it still doesn't make it right. And I suspect those in your alliance camping Jita stations and claiming they don't know this is happening are being a bit dishonest. Now in reference to what you consider unfair, it is no more unfair than your alliance indiscriminately using the wardeccing system in place to PVP in an environment usually supposed to be safer than low/no sec. You are abusing a game machanic to your advantage. Now the "griefed" in turn, are abusing another system to their advantage and against you. But I really can't feel sympathy for your plight because the griefed are now griefing the griefers. You BOTH are abusing game mechanics. The devs have it right. A war dec entitles you to aggress on your opponent without consequences in high sec. However, it is not a free pass to take what belongs to them. The victim drops it but it's still the victim's loot. Again, the fact that it's being abused is a different story, just as your alliance abusing the war-deccing system is a different story as well. As I originally said, one technique bothers you because it is being used against you. The other doesn't because, well, you're using it against those you take pleasure in ruining their day. Is everyone so full of hatred towards the PRVTR that they have lost their ability to read? I'll say this once again: IT - IS - NOT - JUST - ABOUT - THE - PRIVATEERS This is an issue for anyone involved in an empire war. Empire wars happens all the time, and they are part of the game. This issue is not about wether or not the Privateers "abuse" the wardecking system... by deccing a lot of people... ... but rather if loot thieving should be a RISK FREE PROFESSION! Please, people, you are behaving like a blood thirsty mob here, eager to judge anyone for some percieved crime. Try to debate the issue, and look past your prejudice. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:23:00 - [114] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 27/03/2007 15:10:53 Edited by: Exlegion on 27/03/2007 15:03:03 It doesn't just happen once in a blue moon. Jita seems to be in a perma-state of lag. It takes a few seconds (sometimes minutes) to undock. And I'm not suggesting that only Privateers use this tactic. I'm sure others do as well. But it still doesn't make it right. And I suspect those in your alliance camping Jita stations and claiming they don't know this is happening are being a bit dishonest. Now in reference to what you consider unfair, it is no more unfair than your alliance indiscriminately using the wardeccing system in place to PVP in an environment usually supposed to be safer than low/no sec. You are abusing a game machanic to your advantage. Now the "griefed" in turn, are abusing another system to their advantage and against you. But I really can't feel sympathy for your plight because the griefed are now griefing the griefers. You BOTH are abusing game mechanics. The devs have it right. A war dec entitles you to aggress on your opponent without consequences in high sec. However, it is not a free pass to take what belongs to them. The victim drops it but it's still the victim's loot. Again, the fact that it's being abused is a different story, just as your alliance abusing the war-deccing system is a different story as well. As I originally said, one technique bothers you because it is being used against you. The other doesn't because, well, you're using it against those you take pleasure in ruining their day. Is everyone so full of hatred towards the PRVTR that they have lost their ability to read? I'll say this once again: IT - IS - NOT - JUST - ABOUT - THE - PRIVATEERS This is an issue for anyone involved in an empire war. Empire wars happens all the time, and they are part of the game. This issue is not about wether or not the Privateers "abuse" the wardecking system... by deccing a lot of people... ... but rather if loot thieving should be a RISK FREE PROFESSION! Please, people, you are behaving like a blood thirsty mob here, eager to judge anyone for some percieved crime. Try to debate the issue, and look past your prejudice. /Ki I've highlighted my response to the issue, since you seemed to have lost YOUR ability to read .
SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:23:00 - [115] Quote: But where exactly is the risk in killing players undocking and with a blank screen in Jita 4-4? It's pretty obvious that the players that are talking about us in this way either have never been in war with us or have complete lack of knowledge about the privateers way of dealing with things. Not to mention my argument one page back stating that only 0.1% percent of our kills are in jita. --------- Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:28:00 - [116] Originally by: Exlegion I've highlighted my response to the issue, since you seemed to have lost YOUR ability to read . So your response to the issue is that the Privateers are abusing a game mechanic and so everyone who is involved in empire wars should be shafted? I'm sorry, but it was so stupid I didn't believe that was your response, hence my question. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:32:00 - [117] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Exlegion I've highlighted my response to the issue, since you seemed to have lost YOUR ability to read . So your response to the issue is that the Privateers are abusing a game mechanic and so everyone who is involved in empire wars should be shafted? I'm sorry, but it was so stupid I didn't believe that was your response, hence my question. /Ki I'm going to tell you how I was told when Warp Core Stabilizers were nerfed, even though I never used them for anything other than just warping off from PVP'ers while missioning or ratting: ...ADAPT!
MilitaryMind Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:36:00 - [118] Agian... This is not ONLY for PRIV, its for any corp or alliance that wardecs... Thanks, MilitaryMind Be Serious! Beyond Divinity!
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:43:00 - [119] Originally by: Exlegion I'm going to tell you how I was told when Warp Core Stabilizers were nerfed, even though I never used them for anything other than just warping off from PVP'ers while missioning or NPC-ratting: ...ADAPT! Yes, thank you, I am. And since you seem to have run out of arguments, maybe we can continue the discussion? Should Loot Thieving be a risk free profession? /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
JourneymanDave devastation mining inc	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:04:00 - [120] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Originally by: Exlegion 1 To PA: You say there is no risk for a third party looting your PVP kills. 2 But where exactly is the risk in killing players undocking and with a blank screen in Jita 4-4? 3 It is NOT your loot. It is the victim's loot. As long as the thief is flagged to the victim then all is fine. 1. Yes, we do say that. 2. How the hell are we supposed to know they've got a black screen? Those happen once in a full moon when jita reaches 700+ and if petitioned you DO get reimbursed. And even though you do know the target has a black screen, why shouldn't we do the same as they do to us when we get the black screen? 3. How is everything fine when someone who didn't participate in the fight, didn't put anything up for risk and has a near 0% chance to get caught gets often loot worth 2-3 hours of npcing/mining? How is that fair to the NPCer/miner for example? PS. It's PRIVT not PA. PA was Phoenix Alliance but you probably don't remember them as you weren't in the game when they were around. 1. Think we're all in agreement that this is PA's stance, no argument there. It's just factually incorrect, as we've covered a few times so far. 2. Not the killer's problem. You paid for the wardec, blast whomever you like, if that's your play style. 3. Again, the loot scooper is at risk. The victim and victim's corp can KOS them right away. And if the killer wants the loot, they can kill the thief and loot both ships. The only additional risk incurred by the killer is when it's done in hi-sec space (which we know is the most common scenario), in which case you need to have a suicide Kessie ready to go. Stake your claim and protect it. Or don't, your choice.

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