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FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:13:49 -
[1] - Quote
As a alpha clone player trying out EVE Online I seriously find that people like me that really enjoy mining are being left out.
Combat players have a variety of frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
Miners only get a Venture...
At least give Alpha Clones access to Mining Barges.
And I am not even talking about the skills for mining and industry which I could count on 2 hands.
Compared to combat skills which are a lot it is just ridiculous.
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. |
Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:32:10 -
[2] - Quote
Combat is LOADS more complicated than mining. If you could use a barge would you ever sub? I doubt it for the extra few % the better lasers will get you..
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.
If you want to make money from mining as an Alpha take your Venture to a wormhole, it is not as bad as you think it is ;)
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
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Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
221
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Posted - 2016.11.18 11:55:18 -
[3] - Quote
I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials.
The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges?
That 5m sp cap is the big thing here.
I feel like the game wouldn't suffer terribly from alphas having access tech II guns, mining barges, ships through battleship, and maybe some select tech II frigates like assault frigates and interceptors.
Personally, I'd like to up the skill cap to 10m, and give alphas a bigger bite of EvE. This would require increasing the sp threshold for extractors to 10m as well.
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FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:07:59 -
[4] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Combat is LOADS more complicated than mining. If you could use a barge would you ever sub? I doubt it for the extra few % the better lasers will get you..
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.
If you want to make money from mining as an Alpha take your Venture to a wormhole, it is not as bad as you think it is ;)
Of course I would sub if I see potential in mining & industry.
But you clearly don't see the point I am trying to make.
Now it's just annoying since doing missions give 10x profit plus standing.
Plus the venture is full within a few minutes.
And yeah combat pilots have more options but that just shows that its more fun to play as a combat pilot instead of trying to get more people to mine and go into the industry path of the game.
Like I said you only have a venture and most industrial and trade skills are locked out.
New players can even explores these things to a medium level.
Where combat pilots can do a shitload like you mentioned plus have a lot of combat related skills.
Basically an Alpha Clone looks like its made for 80% combat players and 20% industry (if not less...) players. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1064
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 12:32:24 -
[5] - Quote
You think it will be any more fun to do the same with a Retriever with the difference that you push buttons less often?
I also wonder if it's true that you can make 10x what a venture can with missions, considering alphas can only fly T1 fit cruisers. They will likely not be able to run Level 3 missions efficiently, and with level 2s It will be difficult for most to reach 5M/h. |
FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:34:58 -
[6] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:You think it will be any more fun to do the same with a Retriever with the difference that you push buttons less often?
I also wonder if it's true that you can make 10x what a venture can with missions, considering alphas can only fly T1 fit cruisers. They will likely not be able to run Level 3 missions efficiently, and with level 2s It will be difficult for most to reach 5M/h.
L3's are pretty easy in a fully outfitted Gnosis with T1's
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1064
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 12:43:07 -
[7] - Quote
ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit. |
Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
59
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Posted - 2016.11.18 12:46:03 -
[8] - Quote
Mining in a venture is the exact same thing as mining in a barge: you sit next to a rock and watch the lasers fill up your ore hold.
The numbers you will be seeing with a barge are slightly higher but not to the point where you would get rich from it.
Mining is one of the lowest paying "jobs" in Eve.
The restrictions regarding combat with alpha accounts are also pretty severe. Mining isn't really any more limited than combat - it's just that combat in Eve is a lot deeper (and better paying) than mining.
People mine for profit because it is an activity that requires little to no interaction and thus can easily be scaled up to multiple accounts - which requires omega anyway.
The manufacturing side is severely restricted to prevent people from abusing the system by making hundreds of accounts for manufacturing. It's passive ISK and thus could be easily scaled up without having to login multiple accounts at once. Alphas can't do planetary interaction for the same reason. |
Memphis Baas
2276
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 12:48:17 -
[9] - Quote
It's not going to make you feel any better, but the whole game is 80% PVP and 20% mining/industry/PVE.
CCP is adding ships, balancing ships for PVP, and changing the combat mechanics almost every expansion. As far as mining, this expansion is focused on mining, with the Rorqual and other mining ship changes. Be prepared to wait another 5-10 years, like we have up till now, for more mining changes once this expansion is done.
In tune with that, CCP clearly intends to introduce newbies who try the Alpha program to combat and PVP, because that's what the game is focused on. And, as mentioned above, free mining barges would affect the economy greatly, so even the Omegas are against it.
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Bagatur I
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
86
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Posted - 2016.11.18 13:35:39 -
[10] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials.
The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges?
That 5m sp cap is the big thing here.
where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it. |
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FQPW
Goshawk Mining Ltd
0
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Posted - 2016.11.18 13:47:09 -
[11] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials.
The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges?
That 5m sp cap is the big thing here. where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it.
Training all skills available to Alpha Clones caps you at 5m...
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Cara Forelli
Better Off Red
Unspoken Alliance.
2116
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Posted - 2016.11.18 14:29:44 -
[12] - Quote
Eve is not free to play. Eve is free to try.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Baldy McNoHair
State War Academy
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2016.11.18 14:44:01 -
[13] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Please improve the free botting capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
nope.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
1169
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials.
The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges?
That 5m sp cap is the big thing here.
Alphas can't log in simultaneously not because of threat of permaban, they can't log in simultaneously because the client won't let them.
Mining initially provides significantly better income than missioning. You'll definitely make more isk in your venture than you'll make doing level 1 or two missions, just as an example. Using the gnosis to do level 3s, that's a little more in the air, but from what I've experienced so far, especially mixing it up with some production, a miner should be making pretty good income.
Definitely enough income to pay for the frigates, destroyers, and cruisers to fly pvp in.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:48:34 -
[15] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials.
The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges?
That 5m sp cap is the big thing here. where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it.
Wut? It's been regularly mentioned on forums and dev publications that the chosen skills for each race add up to a 5 Mil SP cap (approx). That's where everyone's getting this "BS" from.... ...
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
38
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:49:13 -
[16] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit.
I thought they were limited to cruiser hulls and below. A gnosis is a bc. |
Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:49:49 -
[17] - Quote
FQPW wrote:its more fun to play as a combat pilot instead of trying to get more people to mine and go into the industry path
Hit the nail on the head there didn't ya?
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Keno Skir
943
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Posted - 2016.11.18 15:50:43 -
[18] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Neuntausend wrote:ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit. I thought they were limited to cruiser hulls and below. A gnosis is a bc.
Yeah it's because the Gnosis is really designed to help out new players, with it's 4-way fitting bonus etc.
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1064
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 16:38:54 -
[19] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Neuntausend wrote:ah, right, they have the gnosis. That kind of breaks alpha limitations a bit. I thought they were limited to cruiser hulls and below. A gnosis is a bc.
It is, but it doesn't require the battlecruiser skill. In fact, it doesn't require any specific spcaeship command skills to fly beyond Spaceship Command I. Alphas are only limited through their skills, and since they don't need one for the Gnosis, they should be able to fly it. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
470
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:06:22 -
[20] - Quote
If you want higher yields, then you should consider doing something else, than highsec mining with the Venture.
Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing.
But as people have already stated, giving free access to barges would crash the mineral market and not give an incentive for highsec miners to ever sub. |
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
Domestic Disturbance
368
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:56:23 -
[21] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Combat is LOADS more complicated than mining. If you could use a barge would you ever sub? I doubt it for the extra few % the better lasers will get you..
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.
If you want to make money from mining as an Alpha take your Venture to a wormhole, it is not as bad as you think it is ;) Of course I would sub if I see potential in mining & industry. But you clearly don't see the point I am trying to make. Now it's just annoying since doing missions give 10x profit plus standing. Plus the venture is full within a few minutes. And yeah combat pilots have more options but that just shows that its more fun to play as a combat pilot instead of trying to get more people to mine and go into the industry path of the game. Like I said you only have a venture and most industrial and trade skills are locked out. New players can even explores these things to a medium level. Where combat pilots can do a shitload like you mentioned plus have a lot of combat related skills. Basically an Alpha Clone looks like its made for 80% combat players and 20% industry (if not less...) players.
Ventures are still going to take around 15 minutes to get a full ore hold, which is not that different from mining barges.
And of course missions are going to give 10x the profits(a bit exaggerating here but okay) and standings, because you cant warp to a mission site, activate your weapons and go afk.
And you are still completely wrong. Ventures provide the perfect ships to enter wormholes to gas mine in, which is medium level gameplay.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1064
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:09:44 -
[22] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing.
I don't think Alphas get the Gas Huffing skill, but I might be mistaken there. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
473
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:30:16 -
[23] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Maekchu wrote:Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing. I don't think Alphas get the Gas Huffing skill, but I might be mistaken there.
Checked. They can use the Gas Cloud Harvester I.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
757
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:44:56 -
[24] - Quote
I think the hint here is to not let yourself be a one-trick-pony. Try running some Combat Anoms in between some mining sessions or look for relic sites, etc. Eve Online is huge!
So if you decide you do want to take all your mining skills to level V, then subscribe. 
@lunettelulu7
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5986
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 18:52:25 -
[25] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider.
You can drastically improve your mining efficiency by finding people to work with in a fleet. There's no need to upgrade to barges to make the Alpha clone experience more enjoyable.
If you're after a higher income, consider speculative hauling, distribution missions or security missions.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
18198
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 22:04:52 -
[26] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider...
That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.11.19 02:05:20 -
[27] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Bagatur I wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials.
The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges?
That 5m sp cap is the big thing here. where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it. Wut? It's been regularly mentioned on forums and dev publications that the chosen skills for each race add up to a 5 Mil SP cap (approx). That's where everyone's getting this "BS" from.... ...
There's no actual cap on sp.
The skills are capped and once you have trained each one to what an alpha allows it roughly equals 5m depending on which skill tree you get. Amarr has the fewest number of skill levels, then gallente Caldari and minmatar.
There's a spreadsheet around here somewhere. Iirc it lists minmatar as 306-307 levels and amarr in the 290s. So in theory a fully trained min account would have more sp than an amarr account depending on how the levels are distributed maybe amarr has 1-2 fewer skills but they go to higher levels to equal it out.
But there's no point where you 5m sp and it locks you down from training skills, the skills are predetermined and you can train only those skills.
A 5m sp cap is a misnomer assuming all of that is correct and I didn't misread something.
Essentially the same thing just technically not a sp cap. A skill cap that also just happens to be around 5m sp |
Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
226
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Posted - 2016.11.19 03:47:07 -
[28] - Quote
Technically, you're right. There isn't a hard 5,000,000sp and your queue shuts down kind of limit.
They've been described as being skillable to "roughly 5 miion skillpoints" by CCP. Anytime someone suggests increasing alpha skills, I like to ask which skills should be lowered to accomodate the new increase while keeping the total at "roughly 5 million."
CCP will likely not allow Alphas to train above 5m sp for one big reason. You get three guesses and the first two don't count. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3106
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 06:57:45 -
[29] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider... That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much.
Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Stryffe Darkholm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.19 08:37:21 -
[30] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.
I'm not sure why you all keep asking him that. He's said he truly enjoys mining and industry, some people just do. My wife always enjoys the crafting side of games more than the combat. I agree with him here. if a player wants to specialize and make his way with industry and not combat, even as an Alpha clone he should be allowed to. To a point at least.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5987
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Posted - 2016.11.19 09:52:49 -
[31] - Quote
There is nothing stopping an Alpha clone joining a fleet for mining or missions or PVP.
The range of ships for top-level miners is pretty much Ventures, Expedition, Barges, Exhumers. End of story.
The range of ships for Omega pilots includes Covert ops, Recon, Electronic warfare, battlecruisers, battleships, capitals, supercapitals, marauders, black ops, logistics, command ships, etc.
Thus the range of ships available to Alpha clones for mining is just as representative as the range of ships available for other activities. Alpha accounts are not intended to be satisfying gameplay on their own: they are a way to try out EVE for an extended period while you learn how the game actually works, make some friends, and then decide to subscribe to make their in-game contribution more powerful.
As for opening up Mining Barge to Alphas, here are the skills CCP would have to allow Alphas to train in addition to what they already have access to:
- Astrogeology 3
- Mining Barge 1
Once they get access to barges, why not battleships, cloaking devices, ME/PE research, invention GǪ ?
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
18199
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 09:54:02 -
[32] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider... That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much. Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.
Who said it was? We're talking income here. CCP have just drastically raised the maximum income that one can earn from mining.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3106
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Posted - 2016.11.19 11:07:25 -
[33] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider... That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much. Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet. Who said it was? We're talking income here. CCP have just drastically raised the maximum income that one can earn from mining.
Sure? Won't ore/mineral prices not just go down and compensate for more volume hitting the market? As long there is not also more demand for minerals, mining more does not give you more income.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Shaikura Kutungi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.11.19 14:55:12 -
[34] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Eve is not free to play. Eve is free to try.
Yeah i'm discovering that this is true. F2p is really restrictive and meant for you to become sub. Just like swtor is. |
Cepheus Antollare
Smart Mining Corperation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.19 17:20:44 -
[35] - Quote
how about allowing alpha clones to use mining Drones I & II
mining drones don't really do much other than reduce the time needed to get 5000m3 of ore by a min or two at best..... which is insignificant in the grand scheme of things
personally I don't want access to barges as an alpha... I just want access to astrogeology and being able to use mining drones (keyword is astrogeology and mining drones) |
Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.11.19 20:24:10 -
[36] - Quote
Cepheus Antollare wrote:how about allowing alpha clones to use mining Drones I & II
mining drones don't really do much other than reduce the time needed to get 5000m3 of ore by a min or two at best..... which is insignificant in the grand scheme of things
personally I don't want access to barges as an alpha... I just want access to astrogeology and being able to use mining drones (keyword is astrogeology and mining drones)
You can use mining drone 1s, but a venture can only carry two and you're better off having drones that can kill npcs.
Ventures limited to 2 mining lasers also.
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Cepheus Antollare
Smart Mining Corperation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.19 21:18:29 -
[37] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:Cepheus Antollare wrote:how about allowing alpha clones to use mining Drones I & II
mining drones don't really do much other than reduce the time needed to get 5000m3 of ore by a min or two at best..... which is insignificant in the grand scheme of things
personally I don't want access to barges as an alpha... I just want access to astrogeology and being able to use mining drones (keyword is astrogeology and mining drones) You can use mining drone 1s, but a venture can only carry two and you're better off having drones that can kill npcs. Ventures limited to 2 mining lasers also.
alpha's can't use mining drones at all |
Darth Kendari
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2016.11.19 22:25:21 -
[38] - Quote
Classic give them an inch they want to take a mile.
CCP did extensive work on the skills for Alphas, including the CSM. Many of the restrictions came from the "players" suggestions.
Alphas have MORE than enough skills and time to "explore" eve on a perma trial basis.
People "really" wanted to play EVE close to fully skilled and pay NOTHING and are just not being honest about it.
GTFO with that lame arse garbage. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
3622
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 23:04:13 -
[39] - Quote
For CCP to make money there needs to be a difference between alpha and omega lifestyles for players. This is just one aspect of the overall plan. If they were so silly as to actually listen to this suggestion tell me where CCP would make their money from mining players.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
395
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Posted - 2016.11.19 23:14:58 -
[40] - Quote
Darth Kendari wrote:Classic give them an inch they want to take a mile.....
--didn't take long, did it?
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gfldex
780
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Posted - 2016.11.20 02:49:51 -
[41] - Quote
FQPW wrote:
L3's are pretty easy in a fully outfitted Gnosis with T1's
The Gnosis was given out as a birthday present. Granted, they handed out about 250000 of those but it's by no means a long term solution. At some point somebody writes a Guide For Alphas Who Want To PLEX and the price will skyrocket.
If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5992
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 05:51:04 -
[42] - Quote
Cepheus Antollare wrote:alpha's can't use mining drones at all
Pro tip: apart from ORE command ship pilots post-Ascension, career miners don't use them either. A full flight of Mining Drone IIs flown from an exhumer will increase yield on that exhumer by about 125m3/minute on top of the exhumer's 2000/minute capacity.
You're much better off using combat drones, though an exhumer pilot will probably just rely on shield regen to take care of the incoming damage from NPCs (and rely on belt-ratting combat pilots to take care of the NPCs).
My mining fleet will have cleared half the asteroid belt by the time the fleet's mining drones have exhausted one asteroid.
Believe me, not being able to fly mining drones is no loss.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
135
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Posted - 2016.11.20 06:32:22 -
[43] - Quote
We will have alpha players asking for more all time.
Asking for more for the next two weeks, then beginning to complain the game is lame and bad because it's not a free to play and they are limited in the things they can do.
As already said, the struggle will be between alphas that want to play fully for free and omegas that have no intention to pay for the fun of others.
In my opinion there is not a solution, this game is not good for micro transactions, ccp will never gain the same money of subscriptions with so and so skins or similar useless stuff....
...they can think about some bunny drones following ships but I think it won't work.... |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3108
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Posted - 2016.11.20 08:18:39 -
[44] - Quote
The extra time for alphas is enough to get the game, and to learn how to PLEX if they really want to play Omega for free. Getting the PLEX for your monthly EvE is not hard once you have the knowledge, skillpoints have little say here. However this only works if there are enough "whales" buying PLEX with cash.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
667
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Posted - 2016.11.20 09:04:41 -
[45] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Neuntausend wrote:You think it will be any more fun to do the same with a Retriever with the difference that you push buttons less often?
I also wonder if it's true that you can make 10x what a venture can with missions, considering alphas can only fly T1 fit cruisers. They will likely not be able to run Level 3 missions efficiently, and with level 2s It will be difficult for most to reach 5M/h. L3's are pretty easy in a fully outfitted Gnosis with T1's
If you are concentrating on mining how do you know about a fully fitted Gnosis and L3 missions?
Or is it that you're not really a new player?
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Keno Skir
960
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 14:07:40 -
[46] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:FQPW wrote:Neuntausend wrote:You think it will be any more fun to do the same with a Retriever with the difference that you push buttons less often?
I also wonder if it's true that you can make 10x what a venture can with missions, considering alphas can only fly T1 fit cruisers. They will likely not be able to run Level 3 missions efficiently, and with level 2s It will be difficult for most to reach 5M/h. L3's are pretty easy in a fully outfitted Gnosis with T1's If you are concentrating on mining how do you know about a fully fitted Gnosis and L3 missions? Or is it that you're not really a new player?
Ummmmmm, did he ever say he was a new player?
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
668
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 20:39:01 -
[47] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:FQPW wrote:Neuntausend wrote:You think it will be any more fun to do the same with a Retriever with the difference that you push buttons less often?
I also wonder if it's true that you can make 10x what a venture can with missions, considering alphas can only fly T1 fit cruisers. They will likely not be able to run Level 3 missions efficiently, and with level 2s It will be difficult for most to reach 5M/h. L3's are pretty easy in a fully outfitted Gnosis with T1's If you are concentrating on mining how do you know about a fully fitted Gnosis and L3 missions? Or is it that you're not really a new player? Ummmmmm, did he ever say he was a new player?
He intimated it, yes.
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Kitsa
Newbbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 21:12:56 -
[48] - Quote
FQPW wrote:As a alpha clone player trying out EVE Online I seriously find that people like me that really enjoy mining are being left out.
Combat players have a variety of frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
Miners only get a Venture...
At least give Alpha Clones access to Mining Barges.
And I am not even talking about the skills for mining and industry which I could count on 2 hands.
Compared to combat skills which are a lot it is just ridiculous.
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
you have never done ninja mining now have you? |
Krima Sumyungi
Perkone
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 06:33:21 -
[49] - Quote
Considering Alpha's have access to strip mining lasers, you would think CCP would have something for Alpha's to actually put them on. |
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
1086
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 08:12:33 -
[50] - Quote
FQPW wrote:Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
What if I told you that little Alpha Venture you're complaining about can pull in some ISK90m/hour under the right conditions?
The not insignificant condition being that you're in an Instrumental or Vital Core Reservoir gas site in C5/C6 Wormhole space or you're chasing Cytoserocin Gas in low and 0.0 space.
Alphas, quite deliberately, have limits. If you're feeling limited, cough up and experience the full joy of EVE.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Kozan Khardula
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 13:04:27 -
[51] - Quote
FQPW wrote:As a alpha clone player trying out EVE Online I seriously find that people like me that really enjoy mining are being left out.
Combat players have a variety of frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
Miners only get a Venture...
At least give Alpha Clones access to Mining Barges.
And I am not even talking about the skills for mining and industry which I could count on 2 hands.
Compared to combat skills which are a lot it is just ridiculous.
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
I'm a gree with OP, I are new as well, and been looking in to focus on mining / industry, and after i get ok with it I would try to explore littel as well. But pure combat/pvp is not my intresst for now at least. As I allways liked production/ craftin in MMORPG
Yea I dont see way rest of the omegas are afraid for alphas to fly mining barge? will CCP have ppl in the game over time or will they loos players(alphas) beacouse of the restriktions. If CCp had alowed to fly mining barge , I belive more ppl would try the game and more would stayed as alphas yes, but CCP would also gain some subs too. So not only see short terms here, but over time. I belive that alphas with more industry skills would benefitt EVE comunity and CCP over time. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
554
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 13:29:08 -
[52] - Quote
" the venture is full within a few minutes" this is your key words, it gets full fast, I mine, I still use a venture, it's a great little ship, if your purely looking at ISK then an Alpha clone is not what you want, you want a sub if you are going after ISK, if you are going for fun then an Alpha is fine as you are able to do the "fun thing"
A maxed out alpha "free" play doesn't need tons of ISK to have the access to all that it needs, 1 load of ore can buy several mods over, 2 loads can buy you most frigates and frigates are where much PVP takes place.
If you want a cruiser as an Alpha then using a venture and getting the materials or mining and selling will get you one in a very short time, alphas are fine in my opinion, if you want to give it a go then try subbing for a month or 2, at the end of the month you should have a feel on where you want to go, free or sub. |
Bagatur I
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 14:01:46 -
[53] - Quote
if miners are not restricted, if they have enough skills to mine comfortably, they would never subscribe. that is NOT CCP's intention with alphas. |
Valkyrie Harkonnen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 14:35:24 -
[54] - Quote
Mining isn't that bad as an Alpha player. The lack of cloaking for exploration and PI option is what really cripples the experience being an Alpha.
Start your EVE experience with 250.000 extra skill points!
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Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
216
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 19:19:44 -
[55] - Quote
OP, I think CCP is trying to tell you something. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
488
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 19:27:45 -
[56] - Quote
Valkyrie Harkonnen wrote:... PI option is what really cripples the experience being an Alpha.
Yeah, let's give people free access to an endless source of afk ISK for free. That is not going to be exploited at all... -.- |
Augustus Firestorm
Divine Demise
Sherwood Hisec Industrial Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 17:51:41 -
[57] - Quote
As an Alpha player what I don't understand is the limitation and restriction on mining Drones. I'd like to see them re-enable this for Alpha's and just limit the skill levels on said drones. To me it just makes sense to allow an Alpha to dabble but not maximize.
Their harvest rate is severely below a turret and with the limitations on ships available I don't see why the limit is even in place.
granted it won't break the bank on the current mining that I do but after having a 30 day account once before where I skilled up mining drones just knowing that I cannot use them at all now is a heartbreak. |
Ugly Cable
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.07 23:11:26 -
[58] - Quote
Darth Kendari wrote:Classic give them an inch they want to take a mile.
CCP did extensive work on the skills for Alphas, including the CSM. Many of the restrictions came from the "players" suggestions.
Alphas have MORE than enough skills and time to "explore" eve on a perma trial basis.
People "really" wanted to play EVE close to fully skilled and pay NOTHING and are just not being honest about it.
GTFO with that lame arse garbage.
In this case they should not call the game FREE TO PLAY, but PAY TO WIN or FREE TO TRY. Those lying marketing manipulators 
I would say it's classic "Save the game from extinction" technique. Don't worry in an year it will be completely free to play without the Alpha/Omega garbage. |
Ajem Hinken
science and trade institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 00:00:12 -
[59] - Quote
They need to allow Alphas to get ALL T2 light scout drones, not just one, depending on your faction. Sure, no one would then sub for the combat drones, but who does that anyway? |
Bertok Francis
Raiju
3
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 01:54:43 -
[60] - Quote
Ajem Hinken wrote:They need to allow Alphas to get ALL T2 light scout drones, not just one, depending on your faction. Sure, no one would then sub for the combat drones, but who does that anyway?
Wait, my gallente FW alpha character can use hobgoblin 2s? That will only change the effectiveness of my tristan by ~50%........ |
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1381
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 03:10:31 -
[61] - Quote
 
This is getting ridiculous.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Kousaka Otsu Shigure
58
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 03:52:36 -
[62] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:This is getting ridiculous.
Well, this was posted early on 2016-11-18.
But if you're pointing out the people who replied after all these time, then yeah, it's time to stop beating the horse.
Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave
Current Project Status: Now for the fun part: Generating Tags
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Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
776
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 04:16:55 -
[63] - Quote
Going from Omega to Alpha character gives me a bit of insight.
First of all I am against mining. It is boring as hell. Go do anything else, including smashing your testicles in a hydraulic press for more fun.
I do think they should get Astrogeology at level 1 or 2. No to mining barges.
I also think that they should have basic access to research. Mostly for copying blueprints to make ammo from salvaged minerals.
Otherwise, get that PLEX or sub and enjoy the game.
This is why CCP set it up this way. |
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrotech Creations
70
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 12:37:53 -
[64] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.
Says the guy who probably hasn't done much mining. There are many different aspects to mining. There is hisec, lowsec, and nullsec fleet mining. Which require varying degrees of experience with defensive PvP. Combating pirates, gate camps and gankers. There is ninja gas harvesting in wormholes, lowsec solo venture mining. Lowsec fleet mining, Ice mining, cloaked exploration frigate mining, With different ships, fits, and techniques.
At it's essence, mining is a PvP activity. The only difference between this and conventional combat PvP is that you are going into a combat zone with a ship which is not properly equipped to fight. Instead of seeking to make kills, the object of mining is to harvest the ore, avoid enemy contact, and get home alive. It is not simply a matter of pointing lasers at rocks and pressing F1 and F2.
Limiting alphas to Ventures entirely mitigates their usefulness at doing any kind of industry or mining fleet interaction. As the yield which a Venture can produce is very minor when harvesting ore. Such that it is often a complete waste of time. I commonly find that there is no point including alpha's in our mining fleets and encourage them to stick to doing ratting or missions.
Which is a shame. Because they are missing out on those opportunities to interact during fleet operations.... The only real success I've had with alpha's mining in fleet has been excursions into lowsec using Porpoise + Procurer + Venture. |
Keno Skir
1146
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 15:50:08 -
[65] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Keno Skir wrote:It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture. Says the guy who probably hasn't done much mining. There are many different aspects to mining. There is hisec, lowsec, and nullsec fleet mining. Which require varying degrees of experience with defensive PvP. Combating pirates, gate camps and gankers. There is ninja gas harvesting in wormholes, lowsec solo venture mining. Lowsec fleet mining, Ice mining, cloaked exploration frigate mining, With different ships, fits, and techniques. At it's essence, mining is a PvP activity. The only difference between this and conventional combat PvP is that you are going into a combat zone with a ship which is not properly equipped to fight. Instead of seeking to make kills, the object of mining is to harvest the ore, avoid enemy contact, and get home alive. It is not simply a matter of pointing lasers at rocks and pressing F1 and F2. Limiting alphas to Ventures entirely mitigates their usefulness at doing any kind of industry or mining fleet interaction. As the yield which a Venture can produce is very minor when harvesting ore. Such that it is often a complete waste of time. I commonly find that there is no point including alpha's in our mining fleets and encourage them to stick to doing ratting or missions. Which is a shame. Because they are missing out on those opportunities to interact during fleet operations.... The only real success I've had with alpha's mining in fleet has been excursions into lowsec using Porpoise + Procurer + Venture.
It has little to do with your pre-conceived notions about my playstyle. If Alphas are allowed to fly mining barges they will have too much control over the ore markets for the good of the game.
"Limiting alphas to Ventures entirely mitigates their usefulness at doing any kind of industry or mining fleet interaction."
^ This isn't really true is it. They can have a small effect, which you decided isn't elite enough to fly with you
My original point is that while you are correct that mining is a form of PvP like everything in eve, it is the PvP aspects that deserve the love, not the kind of ship you're actually mining rocks with. In fact, since the Venture is the most difficult t1 mining craft to catch it is actually the perfect hull to explore all the dangerous aspects of mining you literally just listed.
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
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Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
778
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 23:12:07 -
[66] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Keno Skir wrote:It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture. There are many different aspects to mining.
That is the sentence that made me laugh. There are no different aspects to mining. There is mining and that is it.
Whether it is high, low, null, wormholes, ice, asteroid or gas...it is sitting there staring at whatever you are sucking with a bored look on your face, most of the time not even at your keyboard.
I laugh every time people complain about being ganked and now at the 'Alpha Entitlement' posts that have been cropping up recently.
Yes, I am an Alpha toon myself. I am not asking for anything more than what CCP has given. It is my choice not to have a sub and enjoy the full aspect of the game. If you want to experience it too, EARN IT with a PLEX or subscription.
Otherwise, suck it up buttercup.
Hello Kitty World is that way -------->
Sheesh... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20016
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Posted - 2017.01.08 23:43:15 -
[67] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Says the guy who probably hasn't done much mining.
i however have and im with him 100%
mining is mining is mining, regardless of where you do it its always the same mining
regardless of ice,ore,gass,high low wh or null,
its always the same.
now the areas you are in have varying degrees of risk associated true
but thats an aspect of that space and nothing to do with what you do there.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1834
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 05:01:47 -
[68] - Quote
fleet mining and solo mining to two completely different things. Also high sec versus null versus wormhole totally different experiences.
If you don't like mining then you don't like mining and that is fine. But please don't try to invalidate someone's experience of that aspect of the game just because it's different from yours.
I personally don't care for PvP, and to me all PvP is pretty much the same. But I'm not trying to tell people who enjoy it that it's not fun and all the same. I understand that they have a different experience of it than I do and I don't try to tell them that they are wrong because their experience differs from mine. |
Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 20:10:16 -
[69] - Quote
Heh, people should have to start out mining in a combat frigate with one laser into a jetcan, juggling a first tier industrial ship flying back and forth.
Then they might appreciate the Venture when they get one!
The problem is that the tutorials hand out a stack of 2-3 Ventures to people and they're like "Meh. Now show me something better than this."
The Venture is amazing. It mines, it hauls ore, it even carries pets that will kill your belt rats for you when you aren't even paying attention.
Kids these days. |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
1144
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Posted - 2017.01.09 22:32:16 -
[70] - Quote
Chihuahuaraffe wrote:Heh, people should have to start out mining in a combat frigate with one laser into a jetcan, juggling a first tier industrial ship flying back and forth.
Then they might appreciate the Venture when they get one!
The problem is that the tutorials hand out a stack of 2-3 Ventures to people and they're like "Meh. Now show me something better than this."
The Venture is amazing. It mines, it hauls ore, it even carries pets that will kill your belt rats for you when you aren't even paying attention.
Kids these days.
Good point. Ah the memories of cargo rigged Probe frigates while mining. That first jet can being stolen. The endless zipping back and forth afterwards....
This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.
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Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2017.01.10 02:06:05 -
[71] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:
Good point. Ah the memories of cargo rigged Probe frigates while mining. That first jet can being stolen. The endless zipping back and forth afterwards....
Somewhere on my 2007 vintage character I think I have a Dominix with 8 mining lasers still equipped. |
Kathern Aurilen
162
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 02:29:17 -
[72] - Quote
Valkyrie Harkonnen wrote:Mining isn't that bad as an Alpha player. The lack of cloaking for exploration and PI option is what really cripples the experience being an Alpha.
I been out of eve for a couple years, I fell off just after the Venture was introduced due to computer dying of overheat exhaustion  .
I came back as an alpha and wished I could get access to my PI knowing that there was loads of T3 stuff waiting to pick up.  So I PLEXed!!!
But I understand, what was to stop me as a Alpha(or me a hundred Alphas with free accounts) setting dozens and dozens of planets and just swap accounts to update the PI and nothing else from those accounts. Shoot you already have 3 characters to set up PI on one Omega account . I know if I could I would set up a bunch of planets if I could.
As far as cloaking, I never trained up enough to be any good. I was wanting to train it up for Black ops bomber(AWESOME lol) on an alt.
Thats something to strive for. Give me reasons to sub to eve.
No cuts, no butts, no cocanuts!
Forum alt, unskilled in the was of pewpew!
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Kathern Aurilen
162
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 03:08:40 -
[73] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:" the venture is full within a few minutes" this is your key words, it gets full fast, I mine, I still use a venture, it's a great little ship, if your purely looking at ISK then an Alpha clone is not what you want, you want a sub if you are going after ISK, if you are going for fun then an Alpha is fine as you are able to do the "fun thing" I agree the venture is a very good ship to mine in for an Alpha. 5000m3 and boost on mining lasers. I pull out mine to keep busy when I'm not wanting to eyes to glaze over. I like it its very fun.
I've had the calculator and and crunched the times with my skills at max for Venture(just t2 lasers not bore lasers) and max for my Macknaw(with 2 t2 laser upgrades).
Me in my Mack fills the cargo in 32 mins(i think) to fill 35000m3 of ore
Me in my Venture pulls that in 81 mins... Big difference but not near as big as you think.
Venture takes at least 3 skill sets(times 5 levels) less than the Exumers and still making good bank. PLUS you not just setting there not doing anything for 30 mins waiting for it to fill.
No cuts, no butts, no cocanuts!
Forum alt, unskilled in the was of pewpew!
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Oraac Ensor
747
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 03:34:26 -
[74] - Quote
Chihuahuaraffe wrote:Somewhere on my 2007 vintage character I think I have a Dominix with 8 mining lasers still equipped.
We'll nave to introduce it to my similarly-equipped Rokh, parked gathering dust in my home station. They must be getting a bit lonely these days. |
Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
12
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 20:34:36 -
[75] - Quote
Maybe I'm mis-reading some of this, but the OP asked for access to mining barges - i.e., to the mining barge skill. This would require access to Spaceship Command I, Mining Frigate III, Industry V, Mining IV, Science IV, and Astrogeology III. Some of those the alpha clone can already access, some not. I have no opinion at the moment on whether alpha clones should have access to those additional skills, nor on whether access to the mining barge skill would crash the mineral market. I suppose that depends on how successful CCP's effort to get free-to-play players into the game is.
What the OP did not ask for was free mining barges, or free skill books, for alpha clones. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27337
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 20:57:11 -
[76] - Quote
Ah the good old days of mining frigates and cruisers, I still have a bait Osprey somewhere.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
12
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 21:04:45 -
[77] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:First of all I am against mining. It is boring as hell. Go do anything else, including smashing your testicles in a hydraulic press for more fun.
You're of course entitled to your opinion of what is and is not fun for you. You're also of course not entitled to define what is fun for anyone else. |
Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
12
|
Posted - 2017.01.14 21:10:13 -
[78] - Quote
Ugly Cable wrote:In this case they should not call the game FREE TO PLAY, but PAY TO WIN or FREE TO TRY. Those lying marketing manipulators I would say it's classic "Save the game from extinction" technique. Don't worry in an year it will be completely free to play without the Alpha/Omega garbage.
Hm. I would define "winning" a MMORPG as "continuing to have fun playing it". I have yet to find myself not having fun playing EVE.
If in a year EVE will be completely free to play, within two it will be gone. Which would be a shame, as IMO it's still the best game ever. Well, maybe except for Clan Lord, but that's a very special case, and will not be everyone's cup of tea. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
77
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Posted - 2017.01.15 03:33:49 -
[79] - Quote
What I still dont get is why no mining drones.
Trial accounts had mining drones., alphas no mining drones.
A venture can only carry 2 anyway. It's not even like people would be using t2 mining drones or Ice harvesting or big rorq drones.
Just regular mining drone 1s. Makes no sense. |
Akane Togenada
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2017.01.15 10:51:12 -
[80] - Quote
It's almost as if CCP want to steer then Alphas into PvP ... I wonder if that might be because all studies that have ever been done on player retention shows that players who participate in PvP early on are most likely to stay in the game.
If you look at say Explorers they also have 1 ship to fly, their basic Tier 1 exploration frigate, and unlike the Venture they can-¦t even fit it properly since cloaking is an Omega skill. Still many players say that exploration is great for alphas while mining appearantly is not. Might it be the activity itself and not the ship one get's to use that's the real difference. |
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Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
101
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Posted - 2017.01.15 13:20:35 -
[81] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:What I still dont get is why no mining drones.
Trial accounts had mining drones., alphas no mining drones.
A venture can only carry 2 anyway. It's not even like people would be using t2 mining drones or Ice harvesting or big rorq drones.
Just regular mining drone 1s. Makes no sense.
It's CCP hinting at the fact that a Venture shouldn't use them because it leaves no room for lights.
It's weird, lots of newbies in Rookie channel talk about mining drones. I really want find the person/guide that tells newbies to get them and punch the person who said that in the face, repeatedly. |
Akane Togenada
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2017.01.15 15:18:51 -
[82] - Quote
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:It's CCP hinting at the fact that a Venture shouldn't use them because it leaves no room for lights.
It's weird, lots of newbies in Rookie channel talk about mining drones. I really want find the person/guide that tells newbies to get them and punch the person who said that in the face, repeatedly.
If I where to guess said player(s) probably sells Mining Drones at exorbitant prices and tries to trick newbies into buying them. Either that or the advisor is just completely clueless.
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Greg Fawx
5
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Posted - 2017.01.16 10:28:58 -
[83] - Quote
Alpha clones are trial accounts forever. The idea behind it is simple my friend. Eve is so deep and "leveling" takes real time and patience instead of grinding skills unlike other games . So.. A 14 days trial is not enough to experience a demo of what this game can offer you. Therefore .. Trial accounts forever. Trial. If you tried the game, you liked it and you think mining is for you then upgrade to omega with no limitations. |
Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 15:33:50 -
[84] - Quote
Indeed, the whole point of Alpha limitations is to annoy you enough that you subscribe. Arguing how to optimize Alphas so that they offer more of what people want is silly.
So far from what I've seen the Alpha starting skillset, permitted ships, and available training seems almost perfect. You can do a little bit of everything, there are no limitations on what you can buy and sell, or how much ISK you can acquire (AFAIK), PLEX trading, etc., and you can do real progression through skill training and earning isk to pay for different ships.
But almost everyone who finds they enjoy the game will very quickly start aspiring to something greater, and it's bringing in a lot of new subscribers as well as selling a lot of PLEX, which is all good for EVE.
A few people get angry when they see that Alpha is limited, but usually you just have to point out that EVE is a subscription-based game, not a micro-transaction Free-to-Pay game.
Overall I think Alpha is the best thing to happen to the game in years. |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
1153
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 17:43:57 -
[85] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:What I still dont get is why no mining drones.
Trial accounts had mining drones., alphas no mining drones.
A venture can only carry 2 anyway. It's not even like people would be using t2 mining drones or Ice harvesting or big rorq drones.
Just regular mining drone 1s. Makes no sense.
Old trial accounts could not fly industrial ships though and the Alphas can. I am guessing that someone looked at the Nereus and noted that is you fit over a 17,000m3 hold and use 3 mining drones for a lazy afternoon of afk veld mining and thought it wouldn't be a good idea.
This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.
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Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
8
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 18:20:04 -
[86] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Matthias Ancaladron wrote:What I still dont get is why no mining drones.
Trial accounts had mining drones., alphas no mining drones.
A venture can only carry 2 anyway. It's not even like people would be using t2 mining drones or Ice harvesting or big rorq drones.
Just regular mining drone 1s. Makes no sense. Old trial accounts could not fly industrial ships though and the Alphas can. I am guessing that someone looked at the Nereus and noted that you can fit over a 17,000m3 hold and use 3 mining drones for a lazy afternoon of afk veld mining and thought it wouldn't be a good idea.
Trial accounts were able to fly industrial ships and not just from one faction but all of them and you could skill it to level 5 while alpha is restricted to level 1. Trial account wasn't limited in skills at all only by time you have to train them which essentially meant you could never get to mining barges with trial as the trial ended before you could train the skill to fly it. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
584
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 23:04:01 -
[87] - Quote
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roberts dragon
Beak Enterprises
TRUE VINE
84
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 08:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
you can mine in just about any alpha ship , venture is quite good for many reasons , you should join a corp and go null sec where you can earn shed loads more mining .
the alpha was designed to give you a very good taste of what you can do in the game , ccp has to make cash or there wont be no game , try fitting differnet ships like cruisers even a gnosis has a large cargo hold .
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Ijon-Tichy
Ze One Man Show
31
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 08:12:08 -
[89] - Quote
We had the "Alphas should be able to fly mining bargesGÇ¥ idea in the Player Features and Ideas section (where it belongs imho). Latest one: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6866935#post6866935
I mined a bit on one of my Alpha accounts just to it check out and managed to get around 5 Million ISK per hour. I was mining with a Venture in a system that had free citadel compression (quite common now) and had some occasional boost from a friendly Porpoise. If you compare that to other starter PVE activities in HighSec that is an OK income for just orbiting semi AFK and shooting rocks. I did a new skillplan for an Alt while mining GÇô canGÇÖt do that while missioning.
The Venture is quite an awesome little ship for the price and I think it is not values enough because of the low price tag, because you get several free form career agents and because there is no smaller mining ship. I still use Ventures on my Omega account to huff gas in wormholes (a thing alphas can do too) because it has the best risk vs. reward ratio when I huff in other peopleGÇÖs WHs.
Last but not least: Free Barges may couse a drop of subs and would give more incentive to run multiple Alpha accounts. If you get caught only free accounts are lost, so better don't tease them Mulitboxers to much.
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Oraac Ensor
759
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 11:35:10 -
[90] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:Trial accounts were able to fly industrial ships . . .
Nope. |
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Mama Carebear
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 12:27:26 -
[91] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Vokan Narkar wrote:Trial accounts were able to fly industrial ships . . . Nope.
Just logged in an old trial, about 1 Mio SP, it does have industrial trained.
Old trials got 2 industrials from the career agents, you had to buy the skill book.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1212
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 12:31:54 -
[92] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:It's not going to make you feel any better, but the whole game is 80% PVP and 20% mining/industry/PVE.
You have your numbers all messed up it is more like 60 / 40 in favor of PvE activities to make ISK so they can afford to go lose ships in PvP. |
Oraac Ensor
759
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 15:17:24 -
[93] - Quote
Mama Carebear wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Vokan Narkar wrote:Trial accounts were able to fly industrial ships . . . Nope. Just logged in an old trial, about 1 Mio SP, it does have industrial trained. Old trials got 2 industrials from the career agents, you had to buy the skill book.
Your old trial must pre-date the Red Moon Rising expansion (16 December 2005). Extract from relevant patch notes:Quote:In an effort to curb Trial account abuses, it is no longer be possible to train piloting skills other than [Race] Frigates, [Race] Cruisers, Destroyers and Spaceship Command on Trial accounts, nor will it be possible to pilot ships other than these classes on Trial accounts. Subscription accounts have no such limitation on training or piloting.
The career agents did indeed give two industrials, just as they do now, but from RMR onwards they couldn't be trained or used without subscription. |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
8
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 18:20:06 -
[94] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Mama Carebear wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Vokan Narkar wrote:Trial accounts were able to fly industrial ships . . . Nope. Just logged in an old trial, about 1 Mio SP, it does have industrial trained. Old trials got 2 industrials from the career agents, you had to buy the skill book. Your old trial must pre-date the Red Moon Rising expansion (16 December 2005). Extract from relevant patch notes: Quote:In an effort to curb Trial account abuses, it is no longer be possible to train piloting skills other than [Race] Frigates, [Race] Cruisers, Destroyers and Spaceship Command on Trial accounts, nor will it be possible to pilot ships other than these classes on Trial accounts. Subscription accounts have no such limitation on training or piloting. [Edit] Or the account must have been subscribed at some time. The career agents did indeed give two industrials, just as they do now, but from RMR onwards they couldn't be trained or used without subscription.
I used to fly industrials on trial account around 2 months before Ascension came on a new account that was not subscribed. I could also post you the kill report as that character was killed by CODE. |
Oraac Ensor
759
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 00:55:45 -
[95] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:I used to fly industrials on trial account around 2 months before Ascension came and that account was never subscribed. I could also post you the kill report as that character was killed by CODE.
I have just discovered that the restriction was lifted in the Phoebe expansion on 4 November 2014.
That passed me by completely - profuse apologies to all concerned.
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Kathern Aurilen
226
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 01:58:20 -
[96] - Quote
FQPW wrote:As a alpha clone player trying out EVE Online I seriously find that people like me that really enjoy mining are being left out.
Combat players have a variety of frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
Miners only get a Venture...
At least give Alpha Clones access to Mining Barges.
And I am not even talking about the skills for mining and industry which I could count on 2 hands.
Compared to combat skills which are a lot it is just ridiculous.
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
I think flying a venture is like flying ships up to cruisers, the bottom 3rd of the tier ships.
I almost see barges are like t2 and exumers are almost like a t2 Navy or t3 of mining ships.
No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!
Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
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Kathern Aurilen
226
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 06:58:52 -
[97] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Mama Carebear wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Vokan Narkar wrote:Trial accounts were able to fly industrial ships . . . Nope. Just logged in an old trial, about 1 Mio SP, it does have industrial trained. Old trials got 2 industrials from the career agents, you had to buy the skill book. Your old trial must pre-date the Red Moon Rising expansion (16 December 2005). Extract from relevant patch notes: Quote:In an effort to curb Trial account abuses, it is no longer be possible to train piloting skills other than [Race] Frigates, [Race] Cruisers, Destroyers and Spaceship Command on Trial accounts, nor will it be possible to pilot ships other than these classes on Trial accounts. Subscription accounts have no such limitation on training or piloting. [Edit] Or the account must have been subscribed at some time. The career agents did indeed give two industrials, just as they do now, but from RMR onwards they couldn't be trained or used without subscription.
I started in 2012 and I'm pretty sure I was racing a hurricane to the gate in an itaron 1 in my first trip to low sec following my first few missions getting into eve still under trial. I quit doing missions because I couldn't defend myself following these crazy missions.
No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!
Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
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Mama Carebear
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 14:58:58 -
[98] - Quote
You are right ;), Account was created in 2015
I do remember there was a time when Trials had to fit a destroyer (Gallente, Amarr pref) with cargo expanders and cargo rigs to get above 1000m-¦.
Well, I'm getting old...
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Kathern Aurilen
229
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 17:59:26 -
[99] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Maekchu wrote:Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing. I don't think Alphas get the Gas Huffing skill, but I might be mistaken there. Checked. They can use the Gas Cloud Harvester I.
It goes to 2 for an alpha, that's enough to fit a venture. I trained it up yesterday.
No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!
Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1428
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 21:24:00 -
[100] - Quote
lel
@lunettelulu7
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walker Hanomaa
Salt fleet
7
|
Posted - 2017.04.16 04:07:25 -
[101] - Quote
Oh looky here another "gib alpha clones more pls" thread
Want more? sub easy as that. Dont like it well you have only lost $14.95USD so about 2 hours on minimal wages
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Krell Neilson
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.16 11:32:22 -
[102] - Quote
Well all I can say is that I am quite happy as a Alpha Clone mining and I will stay that way until I plex. I don't care if it take 6 days, 6 weeks or 6 months even 6 years. Due to reason I will not go into I cannot afford to pay for access which is why I have only just started playing after watching YouTube videos for years.
Always hoped that they would do a free to play/try forever version now my wish has come true. |
Namaan
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
6
|
Posted - 2017.04.17 23:45:45 -
[103] - Quote
With the birth of the Venture, frigate mining is the best it's ever been. I don't see any reason to complain, and I can't see CCP making a "Navy issue" Venture.
Now if CCP wants to make faction destroyers (And maybe haulers) that would be awesome. |
radkid10
The Scope
Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2017.04.19 16:02:26 -
[104] - Quote
FQPW wrote:As a alpha clone player trying out EVE Online I seriously find that people like me that really enjoy mining are being left out.
Combat players have a variety of frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
Miners only get a Venture...
At least give Alpha Clones access to Mining Barges.
And I am not even talking about the skills for mining and industry which I could count on 2 hands.
Compared to combat skills which are a lot it is just ridiculous.
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.
sorry they're not going to give you access to mining barges it would make it a lot easier for gold farmers the Takeover the game
I personally hate how I cannot use the cloaking device on a Alpha
the reason why Alpha players cannot use it all the stupid people complaining in 0.0 about AFK cloakers
reasons why people cannot have anything nice people abusing a system or people bitching about one |
Redus Taw
Mercenary Coalition Training Academy
Mercenary Academy
6
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:21:40 -
[105] - Quote
OP I recommend you try to understand a few things. First, alpha clone state is to just give you a taste of a few aspects of Eve. Second, I no longer am omega and I finished all alpha clone training on this character and started an alt who's sole purpose right now is mining. Making 3 mil isk/hr as an alpha is pretty nice compared with the other things like exploration, trade, and PvE. Just have fun with what you've got and if you like Eve Online then go Omega. Good luck o7 |
Keno Skir
1555
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 14:20:52 -
[106] - Quote
radkid10 wrote:FQPW wrote:As a alpha clone player trying out EVE Online I seriously find that people like me that really enjoy mining are being left out.
Combat players have a variety of frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
Miners only get a Venture...
At least give Alpha Clones access to Mining Barges.
And I am not even talking about the skills for mining and industry which I could count on 2 hands.
Compared to combat skills which are a lot it is just ridiculous.
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners. sorry they're not going to give you access to mining barges it would make it a lot easier for gold farmers the Takeover the game I personally hate how I cannot use the cloaking device on a Alpha the reason why Alpha players cannot use it all the stupid people complaining in 0.0 about AFK cloakers reasons why people cannot have anything nice people abusing a system or people bitching about one
People who are wary of giving Alphas cloaking capability are not stupid, they merely understand the game and human nature more deeply than yourself. If AFK cloakers were free to play, every alliance would have one in EVERY SYSTEM. You shouldn't call someone stupid unless you understand what they're talking about 
Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-
250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2863
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 14:45:13 -
[107] - Quote
I dunno it might be interesting to see alphas in an alpha mining barge that can get solo ganked by a single catalyst. Move all existing mining barges to lv2 requirement and let alphas train it to lv1
Although I kinda like the no mining barge alpha, as mining is a dark hole I wouldn't want to send any new player down, and only having venture access means they likely wont go that way.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Kaydren Orlenard
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 23:58:53 -
[108] - Quote
The restriction on Alpha Clones is there to make it convincing to sub. If Alpha Clone can fly mining barges then many industrialists would cease their sub and CCP would "lose" money.
Also EVE is heavily biased towards PvP and generally blowing things up, so it's not something strange that they put more limit on Alpha industrialists then Alpha PvP'ers.
Speaking of play-style orientation I'm with you. This game is way too focused on PvP and getting stuff blow up. It'd be tremendously beneficial if CCP can put more efforts on diversifying the aspects of the game. (Not a big fan of seeing efforts & time vanish into non-existence, but apparently CCP is a big fan of that). |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
14
|
Posted - 2017.04.27 07:13:03 -
[109] - Quote
Definitely no to the barges on alpha.
However I do agree that mining is the most restricted activity on alpha clone. There is single ship for mining and that ship is given for free by career agents several times. It feels almost like a rookie ship yet thats all there is.
What alpha needs is another mining ship with slightly better bonuses or just greater cargo (so we can semi-afk mine for longer duration) for cost of 20milion +-. That would mean that those who like to mine can spent the money they make on improving their mining experiences. That would also mean much -¦higher risks against high-sec gankers.
Kaydren Orlenard wrote:The restriction on Alpha Clones is there to make it convincing to sub. If Alpha Clone can fly mining barges then many industrialists would cease their sub and CCP would "lose" money.
Sure but it works both ways. If the alpha is too restricted players will leave annoyed and a potentional paid customer is lost.
I think that this happened to the majority of the players who started in early Ascension especially when many corps wer telling them - you cannot play on alpha wih us because of doctrine or because we consider alpha useless. |
Tsutomi Sakuma
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2017.04.27 09:01:38 -
[110] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote: (so we can semi-afk mine for longer duration)
Blasphemy! Can I sell you a mining permit? |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
6095
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 22:57:02 -
[111] - Quote
Akane Togenada wrote:It's almost as if CCP want to steer then Alphas into PvP ... I wonder if that might be because all studies that have ever been done on player retention shows that players who participate in PvP early on are most likely to stay in the game.
The phrase you're looking for is "survivor bias." :D
It's not that the people who join player corporations or engage in PVP stay around longer, it's that the people who are likely to stay around longer are the ones who seek out player corporations or PVP.
Why do people who join player corporations stay in the game longer? Is it because they're more socially oriented people who stay in the game because they like socialising? Is it because people who make friends in game don't want to leave them?
Why do people who participate in PVP stay around longer? What about the people who stick around for a long time then try PVP and quit?
Is there something we (CCP & the player community combined or separately) can do to help new players understand the game and seek out the social, competitive and political aspects that might interest them? The Alpha Clone state is one option: simply removing the cost of exploring the game world.
How do we help people discover the social opportunities, in a game whose main form of social interaction is trolling?
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1606
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:19:17 -
[112] - Quote
Sometimes I think, at mining frigate level 1 the venture should be, where the mining cruisers of old were before the rebalance, regarding yield and ore hold.
Remove standings and insurance.
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